Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to OceanPact's first quarter of 2025 earnings conference call. All participants will be in a listen-only mode during the presentation. Later, we will hold a Q&A session when further instructions will be provided. This conference is being recorded, and the replay will be available at the company's website at ri.oceanpact.com. The slide deck is also available at the company's investor relations website, as well as at the CVM website at www.gov.br/cvm. Before proceeding, I would like to mention that the forward-looking statements that may be made during this conference call relating to the company's business prospects are predictions based on the management's current expectations. These expectations are highly dependent on macroeconomic conditions, market risks, and other factors.
With us today are Mr. Flavio Andrade, CEO, Haroldo Solberg, Vice President and the Vessel Segment Officer, Adriano Ranieri, the Services Officer, and Eduardo de Toledo, CFO and IRO. They will first comment on OceanPact's first quarter 2025 performance, and later they will be available to take your questions. I would now turn the floor over to Mr. Andrade. Please go ahead.
Good morning, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us this morning to talk about the 1Q 2025 results. We are very happy about the progress that we have made. Petrobras' bid to sign a contract for RSVs, the vessels that support ROVs, is going according to plan. It is going very well.
We have indications of significant increases in the daily rates that we had in the previous bid, and that hike is very much in line with our expectations, and we expect to place at least four of our vessels in this bid, as we mentioned on the release. The negotiation has not finished yet, but we can consider that things are moving ahead in a positive way. When it comes to services, we also have some good news. The decommissioning of the Congro Buoy service is already bringing in results. The services that we are providing, geophysics and geotechnical services for Petrobras Colombia, those services are already being provided by our staff using local vessels this time.
When it comes to environmental monitoring, a contract that we have had for over 10 years, we are now negotiating a contract that can be very beneficial to us with an increased scope and also an increase in the requirements level, which is beneficial to us since we have expertise and a solid track record in this field. Now, let's take a look at our highlights. This quarter, our utilization rate was 82%, in line with our guidance. The net daily rate went up by 19% year-on-year, reaching BRL 169,000 per day. Our net revenue was BRL 459 million, 11% more year-on-year, and our EBITDA came to BRL 126 million. Now, I'd like to turn the floor over to Haroldo to mention the highlights of the vessels segment.
Hello, good morning. I am going to give you a brief overview of the main operating highlights in 1Q 2025 in the vessels segment, starting with the occupation map. The utilization rate was 82%, and the main highlights are we had Austral Abrolhos being docked in blue. We have four vessels in maintenance, Parcel do Badejo, Ilha da Trindade, Ilha de Santana, and Rochedo de São Paulo in pink. In yellow, you can see the vessels that were not under a contract for a while, Ilha de Tinharé and Ilha do Mosqueiro. In orange, we had one vessel in mobilization to a contract of Petrobras, Ilha do Mosqueiro. We finished the quarter with an 82% utilization rate.
As we showed you in February, we had three RSVs in mobilization, but now our expectation is of four RSVs, reducing the occupation, the utilization rate in 1 percentage point in comparison with the previous guidance, taking it to 81%. Now, we should remember that our calculation considers the days for which we do not have any contract, also docking and operating downtime. Some companies in the market calculate the utilization rate in a different method than ours. At the left-hand side, you can see that we finished 1Q 2025 with a utilization rate of 82%, days without any contract accounting for 3 percentage points, mobilization with 1 percentage point, docking 4 percentage points, and operating downtime with 10 percentage points due to the concentration of downtime for maintenance in the period, as you saw on the previous slide on the map.
On the right-hand side, you can see the evolution of utilization days. In 2024, we had two additional vessels for which we had charter contracts, and they were in short-term operations. On the same chart, you can see that the daily rate is increasing from BRL 142,000 to BRL 169,000, a 19% increase. The main factors here were events that took place in 2024 with the new contracts for PSVs and RSVs, and also extension in contracts of RSVs and increased daily rates, especially for Parcel dos Meros and Parcel do Badejo. Now, let me give you some color on the net revenue in the vessels segment in 1Q 2025. Our net revenue came to BRL 288 million, a 13% increase year-on-year. If we exclude the Reach Subsea partnership, which has already come to an end. Our EBITDA came from BRL 75 million to BRL 71 million.
This decrease can be explained by the change in how we account for the chartering of Parcel dos Meros affecting 2025 EBITDA since it is a short-term contract, and also because in 1Q 2025, we did not operate any third-party vessel. That took our EBITDA margin to 25% in the period. Now, I would like to turn it over to Adriano Ranieri to talk about services segment.
Thank you, Haroldo. Good morning. Now let us talk about the services segment. Subsea and Geociências net revenue came to BRL 109 million, 5% less year-on-year. That happened mainly due to the Austral Abrolhos vessel docking, which is allocated in the mooring line inspection project. The oil spill response net revenue came to BRL 31 million, in line with the previous year. Consulting and others came to BRL 34 million in net revenue.
We more than doubled the net revenue that we had in 1Q 2024, thanks to the increase in the consulting department, logistics, and also because of the start of the decommissioning project of the Congro Buoy. Now let's take a look at the consolidated numbers in the services segment. In the quarter, we had BRL 174 million in net revenue, 8% more year-on-year. Our EBITDA was BRL 54 million with a 31% margin, a 20% decrease year-on-year. That drop happened mainly due to the docking of the Austral Abrolhos vessel and due to non-scheduled maintenance in the Ocean Stalwart vessel, which is allocated in an environmental project. Now over to Eduardo.
Thank you, Adriano. Good morning, everybody. It's a pleasure to join you this morning to talk about the 1Q 2025 results. Our consolidated net revenue came to BRL 459 million, an 11% increase if we consider the same basis as 1Q 2024. Our EBITDA came to BRL 126 million, a 13% year-on-year decrease, as we had already anticipated in our previous conference call.
Next slide. Now let me give you some details about our costs. BRL 280 million was our cost level in 1Q 2025, an 18% year-on-year increase. That increase happened due to the increase in our revenue in the quarter. It is also related to Parcel dos Meros and the way we account for it due to the new contract model that we have right now, and also because of maintenance in our vessels, as Adriano and Haroldo mentioned previously. Our G&A expenses came to BRL 53 million, 12% of our revenue. The G&A expenses have fluctuated quarter-over-quarter, mainly due to the fluctuation in our stock price. We have long-term incentive plans, and we need to adjust the allowances according to the stock price. That causes such fluctuation.
Our CapEx came to BRL 80 million in the quarter. First, we acquired Aiuká, actually, and also we included in this line the purchase of tools for our RSVs. Now, working capital, we finished the quarter with BRL 431 million. Our working capital demanded BRL 52 million in funds, and that is mainly related to the increase in our revenue. Our March revenue was significant, much higher than December 2024, and that causes that fluctuation in our working capital. Now our bank debt, the net debt came to BRL 1.159 billion, at the end of the quarter. Our net debt over EBITDA ratio was 2.2x. Now over to Flavio to continue the presentation.
Thank you, Eduardo. Now let's take a look at our backlog. It is at BRL 3.3 billion. We had very few additions this quarter with BRL 86 million, but we expect this backlog to increase significantly with the results that I mentioned right in the beginning of the conference call with the bids for the RSVs and other bids that are ongoing. So we believe that our backlog will grow significantly in the next quarters.
Next one. Now let me give you an overview of sustainability and innovation. We have interesting news here. Our shares are now included in the Corporate Sustainability Index at B3. I believe this is a recognition of the commitment that we have had since the very beginning of helping our clients and working always with an aim at governance, sustainability and environmental sustainability and responsibility. We did not make any specific effort to get into this index. This is just a natural result of the way we work.
I believe that this is not a fad for us, and this is really part of what we do and the partners, the clients, and the market as a whole are recognizing it now. Second, we launched a mobile app. It can also be used on a browser, and it is called SeaSpot. We use sensors to feed into our prediction models. We have a much more accurate model, and we decided to bring that information to the coast and beaches so that everybody has access to such information and encourage the use of the seas. The more people we have worrying about the sea, more people knowing more about the sea, that would be great for us, especially with the climate changes. I think that it is critical. The app is now being tested, and it has been working very well.
Now, the AUV Operation, we operated in a new sector for us, archaeology. We used our own AUV to try and find shipwrecks for a client. Of course, we are not treasure hunters here, but we had a client that needed this service, and it was very successful. Now, about the market, I think that I've touched already on the RSV auction. We expect to have at least four vessels. Haroldo actually mentioned our guidance. We lost 1 percentage point in our utilization rate, but that is going to generate more EBITDA for four years. So I think this is very good news. Besides this auction, there are other bids going on that would demand RSVs. For example, PIDF, it is a program that demanded four or five vessels. It is not a contract that we have.
We did not win this contract in the previous auction, but the program used four to five vessels, depending on the moment of the campaign. So it requires RSVs, so it may be a good opportunity for us. Also decommissioning, they require RSVs. Any subsea decommissioning needs RSVs and ROVs. For other bids, we have bids for AHTSs this month on the 19th, and we have bids for up to 25 PSVs from May 20th- 23rd. Now, about our fleet, we have been able to allocate the vessels under the contracts with good terms, good durations, and good daily rates as well, capturing more opportunities when they are interesting. Now we are looking at the possibility of bringing vessels from other countries.
With Petrobras, we are ranking first and second. In a ranking of RSVs, we rank first and second, and we are relatively new compared to competitors in the operations of ROVs, and we have been very successful in it. So the operations with vessels, with a stable company, I believe that we are now the preferred partner for foreign ship builders that want to take advantage of the high demand for vessels here in Brazil, but they don't want to come to Brazil alone. They are concerned about the challenges here in Brazil. So I think that puts us in a very good position. We have been contacted by many vessel builders pursuing partnerships, and we have been pursuing partnerships as well. Instead of buying a new vessel to serve one-off demands, we can have a partnership with a ship builder and charter vessels or other modalities.
Our strategy of being selective continues, and I think we have been proving that quarter-over-quarter. That's it on my side. We are ready to take your questions. Thank you.
Let's begin the Q&A session. To ask a question, please click the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. If you wish to have your microphone enabled to ask your question, please request so in the Q&A field, and we are going to activate your microphone later when your name is called. You may also submit your question in writing. To do so, please type in your question in the Q&A field. We have a question from Vicente Falanga with Bradesco BBI.
Good morning, Flavio, Eduardo, Haroldo, the entire OceanPact team. When we look at the models, sometimes we are positively surprised, especially when it comes to CapEx.
I understand that it's difficult to predict the adjustments that you made to your CapEx. What could the company do to minimize CapEx vis-à-vis your backlog? I know that you have been pursuing lump sum contracts, and they might be related to that, but I would like to know your perspective about scalable contracts that would maybe favor cash generation. I'd like to know your take on that. Thank you.
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I apologize. I was on mute. I'm going to answer your question first, then I'll turn it over to Eduardo. About CapEx, on OceanPact Day, Haroldo is going to give a presentation about CapEx. It is going to be called Breaking CapEx Down. CapEx is related to docking. Vessels have to be docked from time to time. We need to overhaul the engines and make adjustments.
The agencies that inspect the vessels take this matter very seriously, and those adjustments require CapEx, but also it extends the life of the asset. We have a specific chapter in this story, which is Petrobras. Petrobras likes to have state-of-the-art vessels. The vessels need a DP system that is more accurate than the previous version. If Petrobras thinks that that's going to add efficiency or decrease risks, Petrobras will require that system. We always complain saying that the current system is already good, and it says that Petrobras wants it, and we just need to reflect that on the prices. We need just to do the math diligently and seize the opportunities that arise and expect that the competitors will also do the math and learn that some of those upgrades should be paid back in the first contract.
If we are doubtful about whether or not the upgrade will stay in the asset for its entire life, then our rule is to get the payback in the first contract. I think that, of course, we would rather not have that increase in CapEx, but since we have to invest in the vessels in any case, that's good because it is going to yield results in the next four years, bringing returns and, in the next bid, that new equipment will be your competitive edge against new players that do not have that specific piece of equipment that was added to the vessel. Now, Eduardo, over to you to talk about the numbers and the models.
Hello, Vicente. I think that is exactly our position when it comes to meeting Petrobras's demands. There was maybe a perspective that Petrobras would be more moderate in terms of their requirements, but they are still very demanding. We have some alternatives that require less CapEx, for example, the IOC contracts. Typically, CapEx is much lower in those cases. The IOCs try to adapt. They try to adapt to the available fleet, and they negotiate on a case-by-case basis. They negotiate according to the equipment needed in each type of vessel. They are more flexible than Petrobras, and that is part of the reason why we have difficulties in negotiating with Petrobras. They are not so flexible. Another possibility is the service contracts, because then the requirements are much lower. Even when Petrobras itself hires services, it is much more concerned about the delivery of the service.
You are paid according to the delivery, and if you are more or less productive, that is your own risk as a provider. So the requirements are lower as well in those cases. So this is another area where we might have less CapEx.
Just a follow-up question, Eduardo and Flavio, do you intend to maximize those service contracts and the IOC contracts at all? Is that part of your goal? Or maybe not, maybe you are susceptible to what the market is demanding. Is it possible for you to talk to the operators and offer the different modalities? I do not know, if you could give us more color on that would be helpful.
Well, our target, our goal, of course, is to keep our vessels under utilization at the best daily rate as possible. We do not have any control, however, on the timing of those opportunities, to be quite honest with you. Whatever we can land first, we try to land it. We, of course, want to have options. We work especially with the private ones because they are the ones that have more flexibility and Petrobras is more constrained by the fact that it is a state-owned company. In their bids, they need certain standards.
Now, other companies, private companies, they will compare the vessels really and choose whichever suits them best. Of course, we have been successful in designing options and solutions, coming up with services that are interesting to clients. But it makes more sense for us to base our negotiations and operations on daily rates, because we do not know how much the vessel will have to work and the types of work.
Now, when we have contracts that have a beginning and an end, for example, removing scrap material from the sea and we know where the material is, then you sign a fixed amount contract and you know what you have to do. Of course, we can break down the contract in two stages. For example, with an- as a survey, and then we do the detailed inspection, we map out what we have, and then we drop a budget and offer, make an offer to the client, and we do that with all other companies. But with Petrobras, we cannot really do that. Petrobras issues the requests for proposals, and we tell them that we are interested in lump-sum contracts, provided that the scope is well known. We also have contracts by productivity, for example, based on the number of kilometers of lines inspected.
We have experience in that field and environmental monitoring as well. I mentioned one contract that will give us BRL 700 million, which should be extended from 10 years to 15 years. We have teams available, and we also are compensated by the number of samples collected and by measurements conducted. We are very good at that as well, and that for sure sets us apart from most competitors. Very few competitors have that characteristic. We do because we were actually created for services, right? Not for other types of contracts. Eduardo, if you want to complement, please go ahead.
Yeah. I think you said it perfectly. In our conversations with Petrobras, we always tell them about these issues, and it's great to sign service contracts because we have the productivity incentive.
It is not easy to model this type of contract, and Petrobras is trying to go towards that direction, and it has been doing so in cases in which Petrobras can design a model that will work well in a contract in which compensation is based on deliverables and not daily rates.
Okay. I have a question about Colombia. This is a critical project for Colombia because the country is decreasing the production of onshore gas, and there is a huge demand for natural gas, and you were selected for this project, which I think is great. When are we going to start seeing revenue coming in from that project? If you can give us more detail on the project, that would be great.
We already have revenue coming in from this project. I don't think I can give you further details about it because of some issues with Petrobras, but the project is going on and everything is going according to plan.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question comes from Eric de Mello with Itaú BBA.
Hello, good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I have actually two questions. Thinking about the AHTS auction that will take place next week, I know that the Rochedo vessels will be the next ones for which the contract is ending towards the end of the year. What are the challenges for those vessels in terms of competition and daily rates? The second question, which I think is a recurring question in your conference call, is about the daily rate cycles. I believe that most of your vessels will be allocated after the RSVs and AHTS bids.
Considering the increasing daily rates that you have experienced so far, and your perspective for the next years, and also your appetite for bringing new vessels to operate in Brazil, what's your take on that?
Well, thank you, Eric. The bid for the AHTS-TOs, of course we are going to participate in it, although in our current contracts, we can still extend the duration. An extension is a modality to borrow from what Vicente said. It's a good modality because we don't have to interrupt the operations and spend time in mobilization, and we don't need to invest any CapEx. So we take that into account when it comes to negotiating the contracts. We believe that we are still going to see an increase in the daily rates for this vessel because the auction took place four or three years ago.
We are optimistic about this bid for AHTS-TOs. We do not know how many will renew their contracts or will prefer to extend the contracts in an area that we do not have such a great command on as we do with RSVs. For AHTS-TOs, the clients can have alternatives using their current vessels. These vessels work for FPSOs. Since the number of FPSO vessels is increasing, then we can expect the requirement, the demand for AHTS-TOs to increase as well. When it comes to daily rates, we do not like to advertise it, if you will, but we have not seen new vessels being built, and I think it is going to take a long time for the new vessels here in Brazil to be delivered. It is a small number in comparison with the number of vessels in operation right now.
We have 450 vessels in operation, and there are 30 vessels being built right now, or that will be built if the shipbuilders can get credit and funding. And 30 vessels will not really move the needle considering the overall number of vessels in operation. I think that Brazil is going through a very good moment. We should remember that the drop in oil barrel prices and the volatility of oil prices brings difficulties for shipbuilders all around the world. Here in Brazil, however, we are in a better situation because Petrobras is very much focused on production, not so much on exploration. The additional demand is going to be focused and concentrated in the production of oil, regardless of what the price is. Inspections will therefore continue, subsea operations will have to continue, otherwise the oil wells will simply stop.
We want to provide Petrobras and other companies with vessels in the production and development phase, especially production. I think in Brazil, we are in a very good position, and that relates to your second question. Precisely because of those factors, if there is any surplus around the world, those vessels will naturally come to Brazil, but it would not work if any operator would come to Brazil with a just small operation.
I believe that at least 15 vessels would create a significant scale effect. If it is fewer than that, then any company would not be competitive here in Brazil. For shipbuilders that want to bring two or three vessels to Brazil, they will need trustworthy, solid partners. We are that kind of partner in the quality of our work, in the seriousness of our operations, especially with third-party vessels, as we proved in the partnership with Reach Subsea, with a third-party RSV. That is it. Eduardo, would you like to make any comments?
I think you said it very well, Flavio. Considering our expectations going forward, I believe that growth will come naturally as part of our contracts. As we start performing those contracts, that is going to naturally translate in revenue and result growth. We are going to give you more details of that on OceanPact Day. Buy, yeah. I think the scenario is favorable for the industry as a whole, and we have had that discipline, that caution. We have been selective in the contracts, so I think we are very positive and optimistic about our perspectives going forward.
Okay. Thank you.
The next question was submitted in writing from [Edward Finley]. It was submitted in English, and I am going to read the Portuguese translation. Thank you for another excellent, clear presentation, and especially for the superb English translation. I have two related questions, please. To follow up on Vicente's excellent CapEx question, when studying the fleet list, I noticed many vessels built in 2005. Can you please provide some more color regarding class surveys, their duration in number of days, and cost for 20-year-old vessels typically, so that we can model downtime and the effect on profit margins? Also, are all these dockings done at nearby Brazilian yards? The second question is, is it possible to shift these class surveys early before starting some of these new Petrobras contracts to avoid downtime during contracts? I suspect that you already do this, but any color you could provide would be helpful.
The third and last question, do you have any plans to reactivate the three laid-up vessels or sell them? If you need me to repeat any of the question, please let me know.
Well, thank you very much, [Edward]. About the vessels that were built in 2005. Most of them are PSV 1500. Those are small vessels, simple ones, and they have a simpler dynamic positioning system. Almost all of them are allocated in oil spill response projects. Sometimes they also support other operations. Typically, they work in mature fields or exploration projects. We just have one of those vessels allocated with Petrobras. The other ones are being used by IOCs. We have been operating those vessels for a long time.
They used to belong to CBO, and those vessels are in a very good state of preservation, and they have a light use, quote unquote, because they are on a standby mode for oil spill response projects. They are all docked at yards that are right next to our base. They are all docked in yards that are located less than 2 mi from our base. So we are very close to them. We can monitor them all the time, and we are reasonably efficient in the dockings. About shifting the class surveys for early before starting some of the contracts. We always do that considering the upgrades that are demanded by Petrobras. We try to modernize the vessels at the same time as we are docking the vessels so that we can have less disruption in the performance of the contract.
The third question about the reactivation of the three laid-up vessels. One of those vessels is a very small one. It is very dear to us actually, because it was the first vessel that we had. It is right now allocated in a R&D project, and it is going to be transformed into a remotely operated vessel, and it is a vessel that has virtually no commercial value. It is there to support us in tests and small missions. It was built in Norway. It is a 20-meter vessel, a very simple one. The other two, they came with UP Offshore, the acquisition that we made in 2021, and they had already been laid up when we acquired them. We are studying options of modernizing them, maybe to make them hybrid, adding batteries.
We need to find a project that will ensure appropriate returns on that investment. For the time being, we do not have a concrete program for those vessels. We are not going to do it just out of speculation. We might upgrade them and reactivate them if we have a contract and a client that demands those vessels. There are some interested clients that are studying that possibility. Haroldo, would you like to make a comment as well?
Yes. Just when it comes to timing. You know, in a special docking, we usually take 30- 50 days in works. The same thing for RSVs and AHTSs. It takes usually from 30- 50 days. Now, in the interim dockings that we need to perform every two and a half years, the regular dockings usually happen every five years.
In those cases, it takes 20- 30 days for RSVs, PSVs and AHTSs. Now, mobilization, it varies from contract to contract, depending on Petrobras's specifications, but a PSV and an RSV would take 50- 60 days and AHTSs would take 90- 120 days, depending on what Petrobras is demanding. I just wanted to give you a ballpark number of the number of days as [Edward] asked. We always try to plan for the works 60 months in advance. We know when dockings will take place, and we try to take advantage of other downtime. We know when contracts will come to an end, and we start planning for those works precisely when we do not have any contracts for those vessels.
We try to match the scheduled downtime and the adjustments for new contracts so that we can avoid downtime during contracts as much as possible. Now, you also asked a question about bringing the docking forward, the special ones, and in some cases, we can do that. We can do the class surveys early, six months early sometimes. We do have plans in place to try and do that as much as possible. Thank you.
[Edward Finley] submitted one last question. He says, "Thank you so much for your forthright responses. One last question. Do you have an update regarding whether or not OceanPact shares will be available for international investors to trade, say, via Interactive Brokers at some point soon? There is interest from the international community, but it remains inaccessible for most foreign OSV investors."
Hi, Edward. Well, yes, we are trying to make that happen, trying to make it feasible. We have been talking to B3 in particular, and B3 is very much focused on creating that possibility. On many occasions, I talked to them at B3, and they have been telling me that this subject is making progress. Of course, it involves B3 and Comissão de Valores Mobiliários as well, the Brazilian SEC, but things are evolving well, and they expect to make it happen in the short term, the access to those platforms.
Now the next question also submitted in writing from [Henrique Fernandes]. The question is, what is
Well, a critical renewal is being negotiated right now with the RSV bid. We are at advanced stages in that negotiation, and as soon as we complete it, we are going to be in a better position in terms of visibility into our results. Although the expectation is very clear, I believe. Petrobras has been disclosing partial results of that process. So I think that we do have some insight into that. I believe that we can infer with reasonable certainty what our future results will be. But as soon as those bids are completed, we are going to disclose them, Petrobras will as well, and things will materialize even more. But I think that right now we can tell you that the evolution is very clear. All analysts that have been with us can have some assurance and certainty into the results that will come in the short term.
Now, another question from Henrique Aiex with Forpus, also submitted in writing. I'd like to know about the possibility of selling vessels. The market is very heated right now, so I believe there might be opportunities for opportunistic sales.
Well, whenever we participate in a new bid, one come to the level we deem appropriate, we can sell the vessel if we believe that that possibility is good enough for us, and if we think that the prices will continue to be below our expectations for a while. We always take that possibility into account. It is not an easy transaction, though, since our entire fleet is under contracts. Let me take a step back. If we are to sell a vessel, we would rather do that if the vessel is going to be allocated outside Brazil. It would not be a good idea to sell a vessel that will remain in Brazil and compete against us. The deal has to be very good for us to do that.
When we sell a vessel to a different country, well, usually the vessel is under a contract, so we need to sell it at the very moment where the vessel is not under any contract anymore. So it is not that simple. It is not easy to happen, and it is not going to be common. I do believe that we are going to sell vessels at some point, in case good opportunities arise, but I do not think it is easy or recurring. It is going to happen on a case-by-case basis and very specific cases.
We have another question submitted by an anonymous attendee in writing. Does the company have any plan to continue providing vessels to Petrobras, considering that the requirements of the latest bids limit the useful life of the vessels to 20 years and your fleet, OceanPact's fleet, is now close to exceeding that age?
Well, Petrobras itself has been extending that age because since 2016, no one really has been building vessels around the world. There was a wave from 2012- 2015, and some of those deliveries carried over to 2016 and 2017, but no one has been building vessels since. So the fleet worldwide has been aging, and that is also the case of our fleet.
Petrobras has said that the extension of the vessel's life is part of the business plan. They are extending the life of FPSOs and subsea installations. As I said when I addressed the question about dockings and how we have to overhaul the machines and engines every five years or two and a half years, we also need to inspect the structure and we need to upgrade the security systems in the same frequency. Because of that, I believe that problem is going to solve itself. We do not have our own initiative to do that, with the exception of the technical discussions in which we participate. I am a member of the Naval Engineering Brazilian Society , and that discussion is going on all the time because everybody wants to extend the life of the vessels.
We don't know yet what technology is going to be the predominant one for decarbonization purposes. There hasn't been any technological change that would justify the obsolescence of the current vessel due to any security issues or things of the sort. The main reason is the fact that the daily rates have not reached the level that would make building vessels more attractive. So we believe that the current fleet will have its life extended possibly a few times, although new vessels may be built in the meantime.
Yes, Flavio. You are correct. I believe that the age limit will have to be pushed forward because no vessel is being built right now, so there's no way to do that, to limit the age.
Companies already struggle to find vessels in the market, so implementing such constraints, such limit, would make things even harder. I believe it is the natural movement. The age limit has to be extended. If you look at the PSV and RSV bids, the 20-year limit can be extended, especially because some of those vessels are already allocated to Petrobras. We are going to see that flexibility in vessels that are already in operation.
Yeah. That's interesting because if the vessel is already being used by Petrobras, it can continue even though it exceeds the age limit. Yeah. That varies from one bid to the other, but we have seen RSV and PSV bids that work exactly like that.
Let's take one last question. The question was submitted in writing from an anonymous attendee. When it comes to your debt level currently, there are some credit lines with higher rates than the ones that you have been taking recently. Do you intend to prepay some of those debts, considering the possibility of having debt with more competitive rates? I think I refer specifically here to the debênture issued in 2023.
Well, considering the spreads that we have been paying in the latest issuances, the one that we had in June and December last year, we have good perspectives for liability management in relation to Debênture Four , which is the last one that we have in a higher rate. Of course, it all depends on the market conditions, but we do have good perspectives about that.
This concludes today's Q&A session. I'd like to turn it back to Eduardo and Flavio for his closing remarks.
Okay. I'll start, and then I'll turn it over to Flavio. Before we finish, I'd like to give you some color about what you can expect in the coming quarters. In 2Q 2025, we have good perspectives for the quarter with Austral Abrolhos and Ocean Stalwart operating. Those vessels will operate throughout the second quarter. With that, the vessel and service segment should post positive results. In 2Q 2025, our EBITDA should be more similar to the best quarters that we had in 2024. That's what you should expect in the second quarter. Now, in the third quarter, we have strong expectations, considering that the utilization rate will be 89%, according to our vessel map. That can cause our EBITDA to break records since we went public. So our perspectives for the second and third quarters is very positive. Now over to Flavio for his closing remarks.
Thank you, Eduardo. Thank you, everybody. I believe that we are now at a very accelerated pace in terms of deliveries and improvements in the company. I believe you all can see that. We are strongly committed to those results. We are going to continue working very hard. Thank you very much. I'd like to thank [Doris] and the organizers. Have a good one. Bye-bye. See you next time.
That concludes OceanPact's conference call for today. Thank you very much for your participation. Have a good one. Bye-bye.