Earnings Call: Q1 2021

May 19, 2021

Good morning, everybody. Thanks for taking the time and joining this Q1 report from NKT. If you look at the highlights from the first quarter 2021, I think we can say that we have a satisfactory start in 2021. Overall, we had an organic growth of 21% in cables, and all three business lines contributed to this 21% positive results. The operational EBITDA tripled almost from last year, same quarter last year, from DKK 10 million to DKK 30 million, and we had a record high quarterly performance in service and accessories, and also a good performance in solutions. Very positive is also to mention that we have a good start in photonics. Photonics is back on the growth path, mainly driven by industrial segment and the medical and life. You will hear more from Basile a little bit later. It was the highest ever Q1 in revenues in photonics, which is good to be back here. If you look at a little bit more in detail, the Q1 performance, as I mentioned, all the three business lines in cable improved revenues and earnings and contributed. In solution, we have different activities that produce different type of cables in our factories in Karlskrona and Cologne, and good utilization of the factory. After the quarterly closing, we got awarded the Troll West project from Equinor with a €95 million on market price, which is a nice order and also particular as it is an AC order. Further applications, we continue on our turnaround and improve the performance. From last year, from DKK 3.5 million to DKK 5.5 million and also organic growth of 2%. Service and accessories, as I mentioned earlier, the highest ever quarter, supported by service repair jobs offshore, but also onshore, and also several other activities. An organic growth of 21%. As you see here on the graph, good growth from DKK 240 million to almost DKK 300 million in revenues. It's on a net price and operational EBITDA in round numbers from DKK 10 million to DKK 13 million EBITDA. If you go now to solutions. In the first quarter, we have executed work on different projects. Dogger Bank A and B. Dogger Bank is the first DC offshore project in the U.K. We had worked on several other projects, Moray East and East Anglia ONE, which are three-core AC projects, and on the Viking Link, which is an MI project. A good mixture of execution of different project types. We have finalized Dogger Bank in U.K. with deliveries of export cables and inter-array cable. We used for installation for various activities, the NKT Victoria, for installation, but also for service activities like repair job for GridLink. Revenues went up to EUR 161 million, 27%, and EUR 19.5 million EBITDA, or from 4.2% to 12.1% comparing quarter last year with this quarter. If you look at the high voltage market this year, we have been awarded new orders on onshore segment like the RTE frame agreement, but also various variation orders. As I mentioned, after the quarter closing, we got awarded the cable for power from shore from Equinor, Troll West in Norway, with EUR 95 million, approximately standard market price. Overall, in Q1, we have around EUR 69 million awarded. We are continued to be active on tenders around the world, meaning we are active in Asia, in Europe, but also we see more and more activities in the U.S. Last year was a good year for us in NKT with a project on DC technology. Now we got the first order on AC, which is also good for the factory loading and mixed on the portfolio. If you look at our backlog, our backlog is EUR 2.95 billion compared with historical figure, very high. It's a little bit reduced, EUR 120 million compared to end of 2020, but still very high. We are working on all the segment, offshore wind interconnectors and oil and gas. We will add the Troll West as a power from shore on top of that and see how the revenue backlog will be executed in the future. If you come to applications, also a good start in the year. We continue with our turnaround activities in applications. One further activity with this division would be to move the building wires from Esbjerg from Denmark to Poland and to concentrate the building wires in Poland. Also, it's worth to mention here that we implemented ERP system in Eastern Europe in the beginning of the year without issues. I can conclude. Overall, satisfactory quarter for applications, and we continue with our actions to improve here further the profitability in applications. Coming then to service and accessories. Service and accessories, we had a good performance in service with various repair orders offshore and onshore. As you mentioned, BritNed, the connection from U.K. and Netherlands, also on a, let's call it base business, we had a good development also on the service agreement. We did also quite well with accessories in Nordenham for mid-voltage accessories. Here also we make a footprint adjustment where we concentrate the high-voltage accessories in Alingsås in Sweden and move it from Cologne to Alingsås. Overall, record high quarter, which is a nice start into the year. With this, I will hand over to Basil Garabet, and he gives you the detailed view of NKT Photonics. Thank you, Alex. How do you follow up with a great quarter from Cable is to try and catch up on our side in Photonics. Q1 was a good quarter for us. We achieved the highest revenue, top line revenue in the history of NKT Photonics. The quarter started very satisfactory with us in both EBITDA growth and top line growth. Our organic growth was 26%, which is mainly driven by a broad-based comeback in the industrial segment, all parts of the industrial segment were doing well. We also did well in the medical and life sciences segment, where the growth continued from all the products that we launched in the middle and late 2020. With this higher revenue, our EBITDAs also increased. However, our earnings in Q1 were impacted by restructuring costs of EUR 1.2 million in the quarter. In the quarter as well, we recorded our highest ever order intake which corresponded again to a 36% increase over the same quarter last year, mainly due to the improved market conditions, again, mainly on the Industrial side. If we move to the next slide on our business development. We in Medical and Life Sciences continued to perform well in the segment. The main drivers here are our business in ophthalmology, which is increasing. We are getting more OEMs in that sector. Our OEMs in microscopy are also driven quite high with the changes in the end of last year and into this quarter. In the Industrial segment, we saw a significant recovery in Q1 over 2020. However, the recovery in the research market is still a little bit weak, and we expect that to perform better in the second half of the year. In aerospace and defense, the activity level is still very high both in Europe and the U.S. This segment is growing. We expect new orders and new growth in this sector. With this, it's the end of my segment. I pass it over to Line. Thank you very much, Basil Garabet. To recap the business performance for the quarter in the income statement here on slide 16, we improved revenue and operational EBITDA, both by NKT Cables part and the Photonics. On the NKT Cables part, the 21% growth for the quarter was constituted of the underlying business performance, as Alexander Kara alluded to, on the solutions business on 27%, the applications business on 2% growth on revenues, and the service and accessories with a very good start to the year of 82%. Underlying also all business line in NKT Cables improved earnings compared to last year. It is also good that Photonics is back on a growth mode compared to last year, and cleaning for the redundancies early this year for Photonics, we are also at a big break even in terms of operational EBITDA. The Cables part closing at the quarter with a DKK 30 million operational EBITDA, almost threefold the quarter last year. On the margin levels, I think noting that for the Cables division, a quarter like this actually brings us up to the 10% margin level. We have had good utilization amongst our factories and also the different cable technologies. On the photonics, excluding the redundancy here, you also see the good improvement on the margin level. The one-off item is a small divestment of the plant in Stenlille. It came in favorable here, closing off with a positive net result for the quarter of 2021, slightly positive compared to last year. A final note on the H2, so you see also a part on the cable business that we have ramped up for the increasing activities on the solutions business and the adjustment made in photonics. Turning the page to the balance sheet highlights, here you can see that we came out of a very unusual low level on working capital in 2020, and we're now at a different level corresponding to the same level last year in Q1. When you go to the ROCE, the return on the capital employed, you also see the good or the improved performance on the earnings level here panning into an improvement on our ROCE compared to last year and even the end of 2020. On the net interest-bearing debt and the leverage ratio, we closed 2020 with significant cash at hand, and we still have EUR 179 million cash at hand closing Q1, concluding therefore the NIBD at EUR 31 million when offset by the mortgage cost and the lease. Right now, the leverage ratio of 0.4x for the full company. Turning to the trend on working capital, as you know, the major fluctuations that we see over the years here is related to the solutions business, timing of milestones, and prepayments. We have had some very low levels of working capital in the Q4 of 2019 and even lower Q4 of 2020. Q1 2021 came up somewhat due to timing of milestones payments in solutions business, but also the seasonal buildup of working capital in applications preparing for the high season. Also what you see here in the working capital, particularly in the Q1 2021, is actually the value adjustment of our hedging instruments. It's a non-cash effect, but it's corresponding to DKK 57 million, and it's corresponding adjusted on our equity. Turning to the cash flow highlights. Improved earnings were offset still by the change in working capital, but also here note the CapEx level. We are coming through with our investments activities in the solution factories in Karlskrona and Cologne, and you are seeing the pickup here in the first quarter of the year as you saw it also Q4 2020. It will continue this way in 2021 and also into 2022 once we finalize the full program. The net cash flow turned negative due to these for the quarter. Turning to the outlook for the year. NKT Cables maintains the revenue outlook for the year of EUR 1.1 billion-EUR 1.2 billion, and on the operational EBITDA, EUR 80 million-EUR 110 million. Important to say here is that we do expect that the first half of the year will be a very solid one for NKT's part of it due to the mix of projects we have in our factories and the expected revenue generation. Second half is expected to be at a lower level than what you will see in the first half. I'm sure we'll come back to this in the question session. For NKT Photonics, coming out of a much better Q1 with a high revenue level. We are now modifying slightly our guidance for the year, saying that we will end in the upper end of the range of 0%-10% on the organic growth, and similar on the EBITDA margin. There are uncertainties around COVID still, and Q1 was also impacted by this, so still to see rest of the year how this turns out. Turning to the last slide of the presentation, recapping that the organic revenue growth of 20% in NKT with all business lines contributing is a highlight. It is also a highlight, of course, to see that operational EBITDA almost triple, and good contributions from all business lines, and then that the NKT Photonics has the highest-ever Q1 revenue, so also on a better shape than in 2020. With that, we will turn over to questions. Your first question today comes from the line of Artem Tokarenko of Credit Suisse. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Good morning, everyone. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I have three, please. My first question is around solutions margin. Could you maybe talk a little bit about how should we think about sustainability of this high level of margins for the rest of the year? Maybe also, I saw in the report that you've been finalizing some of the projects. If there were any positive provision releases, how much those contributed to the quarter, please? That's my first question. Yeah. In general, as I stated also in earlier calls, with de-industrialization in the industry in the margins had to improve on the solution side, and we had a good execution, a good mix. It means also good loading in the factory on the different machineries. It means a good income per machine, and that helped. In terms of recent we have, I would say, nothing extraordinary, which contributed to the result. How that will be going forward, Line mentioned that the second half will be weaker than the first half, or first half is stronger. That also depends on the mix of the products we have in first half MI production from Viking, which will not be the case in the second half. Also, have an effect on revenue with early to conclude the end. Okay, understood. Thank you. My second question is around the project pipeline. You obviously talk about healthy tendering activity. Maybe, I know you don't like talking about particular projects, but some of your competitors talk very actively about EuroAsia and the TenneT projects potentially being awarded this and next quarter. What are your thoughts on those two projects and maybe also on the U.K. CFD round? It increasingly looks like the cable award actually will be next year rather than this year on the CFD. How much of a risk for you this is that it maybe takes a bit longer than people initially expected? That's my second question. Maya, starting with the U.K. CFD round, as you said, actually, it will most probably flip into early next year. This is a delay of, let's say, a quarter is not a major delay as we have a good backlog. For that finally becomes in Q1 or maybe in Q2. Overall, there are several projects as we work on it in Asia. I don't want to mention specific projects, interconnectors with a different technology, but also offshore wind and oil and gas in U.S. activity. That should be still more than EUR 3 billion. It can be even more if some of the other critical connectors will be awarded. We are busy. Our people are busy in the tendering team, and I guess the whole industry is busy putting all the projects in Europe and U.S., which is good for the industry. Thank you very much. My last question is around your comments in the report about potentially coming back to the strategic review of Photonics business. I guess you mentioned as COVID situation eases up, but also in other parts of the report, you mentioned that you expect this to happen, the COVID situation to ease in H2 this year. I guess what's the internal timing you think about for that review process and maybe a lateral question to this, obviously, your peers have been announcing capacity expansions in the U.S., I think previously you've been saying that there are no immediate investment needs for you, should Photonics be disposed in the next 24 months, how do you assess the capital allocation on the back of that? Thank you. The strategic review of Photonics is, as we mentioned, slated to start once we're back to normal operations. When the issues that have arisen from COVID and the outcome of COVID is over, then we will be able to look at Photonics in a more holistic way and come up with a timeline for the strategic review. At the moment, the industry is difficult in the USA. We are still pushing the limits of components supply worldwide. Even though we're doing very well, we're not out of the woods as such. When we are, we will announce the strategic review. Nothing else has been done with regards to any allocations of capital or anything like that. Okay, understood. Thank you very much. Thank you. Your next question today comes from the line of Kristian Tornøe Johansen of Danske Bank. Please ask your question. Yeah, thank you. I would like to actually continue where we just left off. Maybe just again, if you can repeat exactly what was the impact of COVID-19 in Q1, because to me, it doesn't really seem that there is much of an impact. Yeah, there is an impact. Some of our businesses are doing exceptionally well, and some are still affected by COVID. Some businesses have had a knock-on effect where they were weak in the last 2 quarters or last 4 quarters of 2020, and they're recovering in this year. You have to take into account Q1 is our smallest quarter. In general, it's a quarter that comes after what usually is our largest quarter. It's hard to basically draw a parallel out of it or a trajectory out of it at this stage. I think once you look at future quarters going into this year, that's when we can be able to make a better assessment of where we are at the moment. It's still somewhat difficult to make this assessment. COVID has affected some things. Obviously, we don't go down to what parts it's affected in our shipments of orders and everything else, but it has affected that. Okay, I understand. Is there any deterioration into Q2 from what you know now in terms of the COVID impact? Not that we see, no. Okay. That's clear. Jumping to the cable business. Just want to confirm these smaller onshore and variation orders. When I do the simple math of the change in backlog and deduct the revenue, I get that you have received roughly EUR 50 million in standard measured prices in orders in Q1. Can you just confirm whether that level is correct? Also, can you comment on these smaller orders, whether that's AC/DC, is it MI, XLPE, or what have you got in? Yeah, your math is correct. We dropped in under DKK 20 million on the backlog, and we have DKK 50 million on new orders. This is AC onshore, mainly. We have also been awarded the RP frame agreement, but this is a call off that was not in Q1. It's mainly AC onshore, no DC, no MI. DKK 50 million would be rather small. Very small. No, you can almost say not noted at all for MI and a very small trickle AC cable. It's all onshore AC. And variation orders, one of the key cable, but then some smaller changes. Yeah. Understood. Can you then comment on your opportunities to still get orders in, which will make a difference on revenue for this year? We have these in and out orders and variation orders, which can make a difference. You have seen we have a high growth on service driven by offshore repair. There are still opportunities on that side for improving the revenues in 2021. We have now also got the Troll, which has some contribution in 2021, which is good, and will continue to contribute in 2022. There are still some possibilities. Well, I was actually thinking more in line of the larger orders like the Troll orders. Are there any more orders similar to that which could make a difference on this year? No large orders that would be awarded. There's always, let's say, a preparation time on engineering, on type testing, and so on. Any large order which would come in Q2 would have no significant impact POC based, very low number, if at all. It would be effective starting 2022. Understood. My last question on the applications business, whether you can give a bit of a flavor on low voltages and medium voltages separately. Specifically for medium voltages, you mentioned some challenges for your customers in Sweden in Q4, whether that has continued. On low voltages, we're hearing building material companies talk about growth acceleration towards the end of Q1 and continuing into April. To what extent are you seeing a similar picture here? We had a lower demand in Q4. That's correct. Now we see that the demand increased. It was a little bit of a slow start in Sweden in Q1. Overall, we are seeing demand is increasing, and we could also see a growth a little bit, 2%, and also despite that we had the ERP implementation in early Q1, which always could have a certain impact. We see a good demand. Also U.K. is coming back on the demand side. France is coming back. All okay, I would say. Just to clarify, you say demand picked up during the quarter in Q1. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, during the quarter Q1. It varies a little bit from country to country. Overall, there's an increased demand, you can say. If you want to simplify it. Yeah. I'd like to do that. Thank you very much. That was all from me. Thank you. Your next question today comes from the line of Akash Gupta of JP Morgan. Please ask your question. Yes. Hi, good morning, everybody. Thanks for your time. I just have some follow-ups of existing questions that have been asked. You said you expect a sequential weaker second half versus first half in projects. Are there any projects out there, and depending on whether you win those projects, could this still change, or is it just too far, or is it just not possible given the lead times you have in projects? That's question number 1. It depends. If you have some variation orders in Q2 with a short cycle, that could, of course, help to improve or any other. If you look at currently with the backlog what we have and what we have won on orders on the base of today's established situation, we will see a stronger first half and less strong, let's call it like this, second half. Of course, we work on it to improve. We need to have other opportunities to improve for the Market Must Be There or short cycle business. Yeah. When you say second half is weaker, is it fair to say second half would still see some improvement year-on-year? Q2 last year was pretty weak, so I'm just wondering whether it's fair to expect some year-on-year improvement in EBITDA in second half as well, not just like entire full year guidance. Of course. Now I need to get the Excel file. Let me see. Where is it? Compared to I do not know the breakdown. Overall, what you said is still valid, that we intend to grow in average above 10%. That is our intention, and that is valid for this year and the following years. That can give you some ideas. Yeah. That's why I just think it's important to stick with the algorithm somehow here. That is our expectations. Now we know Q1 and a little bit of an assumption base, I think we can go by that to get the quarters more or less. We share that first half is better than second half. I don't think we should jump to that it will be better than the EUR 82 million-EUR 100 million in EBITDA. Yeah. The struggle I have right now is that, if you look at in Q1, your EBITDA is up DKK 20 million year on year, and you are guiding strong first half, which means we should see good improvement in Q2 as well. If you look at the full year guidance, then you are implying increase of DKK 23 million-DKK 53 million improvement, and I think we are already at the lower end of the guidance range in terms of the improvement that we need to get there. Yeah, I just wanted to know whether the guidance is conservative, and can we expect that you can do more than DKK 110 million in full year EBITDA, or is it too early to talk about that? It's too early, I would say. As long as the second half growth, I think that's probably a fine way to think about it. Thank you. Moving on to applications business. Here you have seen a good margin rebound after a number of quarters when performance was below expectations. Was there anything unusual in Q1, or shall we expect that this Q1 run rate of 5%-6% margin to sustain going forward? There's nothing special in Q1 except that we executed on our plans to improve the business, and you can assume that this will continue. Thank you. My final one is on depreciation for cables business. You had DKK 25 million D&A charge in Q1. Shall we just annualize this number and think of DKK 100 million D&A for the year? Any comment on that? Yeah, you can do that. Yeah. That model is okay. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone. Your next question today comes from the line of Claus Almer of Nordea. Please ask your question. Your line is now open. Thank you. The first question goes to you, Basil. You mentioned that you saw this negative impact in Q1 from COVID. Just have to say, if that's the case, then the underlying performance must be pretty impressive and promising for the rest of the year. Maybe you could give some more color to what you see in your order intake, what types of clients are giving you orders? Hi. Good morning, Claus. I thought you'd get back to me on that. Yeah. What I said was COVID affected some of our business negatively, not all. So in some sectors, for instance, in the industrial sector, in manufacturing, for instance, in Europe, anything to do with automotive or large-scale manufacturing is still relatively affected by COVID. Also, our research and development business, which is still a significant part of our revenue, it's about a third, is still relatively shut down because most establishments are still working on reduced hours or are closed completely. These are the segments, they tend to be smaller segments in what we do, are affected by COVID. They're also less affected in Q1. Q1 is usually our smallest quarter. These segments usually contribute more to the other quarters. What we're saying here is that COVID still has an effect, and if it continues, for instance, having an effect on these sectors, it'll affect the rest of the year. Okay. You're changing the worrying about guidance to be in the upper end of the guidance range. What is the assumption behind that? Is that COVID will still be a headwind rest of the year or only in Q2, or how should we think about that? When we did the guidance for the year, we assumed that COVID will have effect in the first half of the year, and we will gradually return to normal business in the second half of the year. That's when we basically formed our budgets for the year and the forecasts. Yeah. Now you expect to be in the upper end of the range. Does that mean that the COVID-19 effect will be less than you initially thought, or is that the same, or where can this ending in the upper end of the range? What we were trying to say is you cannot take Q1 and multiply the effect or the increase times four. We own too many businesses, there's too much pull and pull from a lot of these different segments. Obviously, we anticipate to be at the top end of the range. Should this change, we will change guidance. Okay. Well, fair enough. Thanks, Jesper. Going back to the cable division, this seasonality between first half and the second half, maybe the sound was I couldn't really hear what you said. Can you explain again why is it that second half should really be that more soft or weaker than the first half? I thought some of these low-margin projects you had in the backlog was more to be delivered in the first half of the year. No, it had not so much to do with the margin. It has more to do with the mix. If you see in the presentation what we have executed in Q1, it's a mix of DC cable, DC extruded. It is three-core AC, and it's MI. In the second half, we have a little bit less favorable mix in the production and the whole composition in simple terms. That makes it somewhat weaker. Is that correct that if you look at the specific projects that you're going to produce or deliver in the first half, is some of the projects you took in where there was a bit more pressure on the margins? You can say so, but if you execute them well, then you can still improve the result. Right. Okay. The whole turnaround of the application division, is that behind you, or is there still things to be done and thereby lifting your profitability? No, it's still to continue and still to expect to improve further. Okay, just my final question goes to the adding of new capacity. Maybe give an update on is everything on schedule? Is there anything we should be aware of? No, everything is on schedule. We continue in Cologne with the factory expansion and also in Karlskrona. We have just started to build the tower with the slipform, so it goes for the next two months. In, let's say May, June, early July, you will see 150-meter high building in Karlskrona, the third highest building in Sweden. This is all going as planned. Okay. Thanks a lot. Well done, first quarter. Thank you. Thank you. We do have one more question online. This comes from Artem Tokarenko, Credit Suisse. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Thank you very much for taking my follow-ups. I have a couple. Firstly, on the H2 versus H1 message, may I just double-check it's solution specific, or does it relate to other divisions? Second part of this question, I think initially you've been talking more of a sequential improvement throughout the quarter. I guess what has changed? Is it just a phasing of Viking Link now being H1 weighted, or has anything else changed? No, Viking we pushed in H1. Sorry, what was your question? Things have changed around. What? Things have changed around between quarters. No, it has not changed around the quarters. We had a strong service quarter with repair, but that is an accidental repair. We communicated also with GridLink. This is something which you can plan for. It may happen or may not happen. That was a good contribution in Q1, but also the underlying sustainable business in service was there, and there's nothing which has changed as such. I would say in solution, good utilization, good execution. Service, good repair orders, sustainable business, accessories is going well. We continue with the footprint changes, as mentioned, accessories and building wires. Application, we are following our plan. Simply based on the mix, H2 is a little bit weaker than H1. Okay. Just apologies, but so that we understand, does this primarily relate to Solutions business or is this a comment across all three divisions in cables? It's related to solution and service. As a solution, there's a little bit different mix. In service, we have a value of one Q1, and we are actually continuing on some of the backlog. Service accessories most likely depends if there's a repair or not in H2, that we cannot predict. It should be also weaker than the first half. Okay. Just to double-check on solutions. It's just a reflection of slightly different mix phasing throughout the quarters. It's not like there are project delays or cost overruns or anything we need to be aware of. No. Okay, perfect. My two other questions. On U.S., on your competitors expanding or recently also announcing plans to potentially build some capacity in the U.S. in high voltage. In this sort of situation, do you now see this as a necessity for you to also come out with some U.S. capacity build-out plans in the next sort of two to five years? How do you think about this? No, we have just completed with the extension with Ramon and Karlskrona and need to digest that, and also deliver on the backlog. For the time being, this is our plan what we have. Nothing further. Okay, thank you. My last question is around the scope for you to bid on large projects like Eurasia and TenneT, and I guess partly coming back to my previous question. From your standpoint, I guess, do you have, not production, but more financial and management capabilities to absorb those projects? What are your, I guess, conversations with customers, where they are concerned that you already have one big project, and for that reason, it might be a bit too much of a risk for you to take to participate in stuff like Eurasia? No, we have taken in the past large project. We have just completed the Hornsea 3 project. We took EUR 1.5 billion on the German corridor projects. We can take large orders. Absolutely, we have the capabilities and capacity to do so. We have no communication with them. There was also some concern last year whether we would be able to be successful in the German corridor projects, and you have seen that we got about EUR 1.5 billion. There are several large projects which are currently where we are actively from tender. I think the next large offshore wind. Yeah. We would not tender them if we would see that we have not a chance to be successful. Understood. Thank you very much. Thank you. We do have one more question on the line. This comes from Praphames Sayagonka of Goldman Sachs. Please ask your question. Hi. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I have two questions. My first question was around NKT Victoria. Can you please help me understand the utilization of the vessel? If you use the same vessel for installation as well as repair jobs, or are you subcontracting other vessels for some of the other installations? I'll ask my second question after this. As you can in general see with our expansion, and also with increasing turnkey jobs what we are taking in, the utilization of NKT Victoria will go up. In Q1, we were busy with the installation as well as repair job of NKT Victoria. Particularly, you see at the GridNetRepair which was in February in the channel, where you have harsh weather conditions with eight-meter waves, for example. You need a vessel like the Victoria to do a repair job. In fact, we have two vessels there to do this repair job. It depends really on the type of repair what you have. If it is a repair of offshore, let's say a repair near shore, then you may be able to do it with a barge or a third-party vessel. You may need not a vessel like the NKT Victoria for smaller repairs. Here we are flexible to use either our own assets or a third-party vessels. What fits best for the job. Okay. Thank you. My second question was around the margins for different type of repairs. Can you just help me understand how the margins vary? What are the factors that define margins on the repair job? Is it the depth, the type of cable, or where you're doing the repair or how urgent is it? Can you please help me understand the factors on this? The margins on the repair jobs varies, of course, depends on what repair job, but you can imagine that a large repair is attractive, but still you need to be competitive as our competitors also repair and offer those repair jobs. You need to be competitive, but in trend, the bigger the job, you can also say the more complex also, the higher the reward in terms of margin. Okay. Just to clarify, is there any difference between AC and DC repairs? What? Sorry, just wanted to check if there is any difference between the margins for AC and DC repair jobs. Between AC and DC repair jobs. No, there is no. Okay. Thank you so much. Three phases. No. Okay. Makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. No further question then. Thanks a lot for your interest to call in, and thank you for your good questions, and hope you will join also the Q2 session, and then let's see how the result will be then. Thank you very much. Have a good day and talk to you soon.