Welcome, and thank you for joining this Per Aarsleff Holding Q4 Conference Call. With me today, I have Group CEO Jesper Kristian Jacobsen and Group CFO Mogens Vedel Hestbæk. After the presentation, we will continue to the Q&A session, where all speakers will be available for questions. Today's Q&A session will be conducted by phone. For questions, please dial the listed phone numbers and enter the provided conference code. The call details will also be disclosed on the final Q&A slide. The conference call will be recorded and published on aarsleff.com. The call is scheduled to last 45 minutes. Please be aware that the presentation contains forward-looking statements subject to uncertainties. Over to you, Jesper.
Thank you, and welcome to all of you for this Q4 Conference Call. Overall figures: turnover ending at DKK 22.6 billion, an increase of 4% compared to the same period last year, and as you can see on the diagram on the left-hand side of the slide, a little bit more than a third of our turnover is outside Denmark, so a very satisfactory year, both in turnover and earnings, landing EBIT at 11.77, 5.2%, so an increase in both turnover and EBIT compared to the year before. Going to the biggest segment construction, the picture you can see on the left-hand side is a school that Ístak is building in Reykjavik. It's already started the works, roughly 9,000 sq m to be built in the center of Reykjavik.
Revenue: almost DKK 10.7 billion and an EBIT of DKK 582 million, also an increase compared to the same period last year. And EBIT margin: 5.5%, also a little bit better than we did last year. Revenue growth: 6%. And as we said also earlier this year, we still see high activity level in the construction market, civil engineering market in Denmark, actually also outside Denmark. And then ArtiCon is also contributing to the results. As I said, EBIT 582 equals to 5.5%. Relatively good market conditions, both in Denmark and outside Denmark, within civil engineering infrastructure works. There we see high activity levels. Also, projects related to the green transition, district heating being one of those types of projects, critical infrastructure defense is also starting to see more projects.
The building market is still on a relatively low level, but the renovation market, we see an increase in projects, especially in the greater part of Copenhagen, and in the North Atlantic market, all three countries, we also do see good market conditions, and our three bigger ongoing building projects, Mindet and Mejlbryggen in Aarhus, and Terminal 3 in Copenhagen, are all progressing as planned. The picture you can see on the left-hand side is new headquarters on the Faroe Island for Smyril Line that we have also slowly started to build in the center of Tórshavn, so also a very interesting project for both ArtiCon as a company, but also for the Faroe Island. M&E Technical Solutions, the picture you can see is new hospital in Hillerød, where Wicotec Kirkebjerg is in full swing with all the M&E, all the installation works.
Revenue, a bit more than DKK 3.8 billion, EBIT of 162, and an EBIT margin of 4.2%. So on all three parameters, an increase to the same year before. Revenue growth of almost 20%. As I said, EBIT of 162 on a high level and also EBIT margin 4.2%, where we see the last three to four years' positive development continues to go in the right direction. Also here, we see strong demand, high activity level within both projects related to the green transition. Hospitals, pharmaceutical sector is still on a relatively high level. District heating, the picture you can see on the left-hand side is from the projects we have for Vestforbrænding, where we have recently won two new projects. So we now in total have four projects for Vestforbrænding. A cooperation between the construction segment and the technical solution segment.
Those works are also continuing to go in the right direction. Yeah. Then on to Rail. The picture you can see is from Copenhagen Airport, where we are building a new station, new Kastrup Station next to the hotels and Terminal 3 project that we have worked on for the last roughly a little bit less than one year. Revenue almost DKK 2 billion, little decline compared to the year before. EBIT of DKK 100 million and EBIT margin of 5%. So EBIT-wise, an improvement to the year before and a little decline in the revenues. So I said, decline in revenue of roughly 11%, and that's due to a lower activity level, especially in Norway, and also to a lesser extent in Sweden. EBIT, DKK 100 million, in line with our expectations equals to EBIT margin of 5%.
And the story is the same as we have said earlier this year, that we do still see a high activity level, especially in Denmark. Also, good market conditions in both Denmark, Sweden, and Norway. But we have been, due to the situation we have had in Norway and Sweden the recent years, we are more selective to what we tender for in Norway and Sweden. And therefore, we see the little bit lower activity level there. But in all three countries, good market conditions. And the picture you can see on the left-hand side is the rebuild of the central station in Aarhus, a project that we have worked on for also the recent, roughly one year, and a project that is progressing as planned, as we see it right now.
Then to ground engineering, the picture you can see on the left-hand side is from Gothenburg, Masthuggskajen, a complex geotechnical harbor project that we have worked on for the last three years, a project that is nearing completion. We expect to hand over the project to the client within the next few months. So a project that we have managed to execute more or less as planned. Revenue, DKK 3.55 billion, and an EBIT result of DKK 91 million equals 2.6% in EBIT margin. And the revenue is decreased by 8%, as we also said on earlier conference call this year. A challenging year for ground engineering in more of the countries that we are in, low demand of especially precast piles, especially in Denmark, U.K., and Sweden, resulting in low capacity utilizations both out in the fields.
And that's basically the reason for only landing at DKK 91 million in EBIT, 2.6%. It's in line with our expectations, but of course not satisfactory compared to what we believed earlier this year. As I said, low capacity utilization, especially in Denmark, U.K., and Sweden. And yeah, that's basically what drives the low EBIT results. Within Nordic, both in Denmark and Norway, we see strong activity, a good market. So both in Østergaard and Steg in Norway, we see good market conditions. And then we have recently acquired Styrud in Sweden, having the same competencies as Steg and Østergaard in Denmark, and being one of Sweden's leading specialists in No-Dig solutions, a company that we acquired earlier this year. 50/50 between ground engineering and pipe technologies.
The picture you can see is also from Gothenburg, very close to Masthuggskajen, a part of the Vestlinjen project where we are building ground engineering disciplines for one of the underground stations. Then on to pipe technologies. The picture you can see is from a renovation project in Skanderborg, south of Aarhus. Revenue of almost DKK 2.6 billion, EBIT result of DKK 242 million equals 9.3% in EBIT margin. So I think we can say on all three parameters, all-time high, especially in the EBIT results. So revenue growth of close to 10% and all-time high EBIT result of DKK 242 million, 9.3%. And contrary to ground engineering, pipe technologies is having very strong market conditions, good market conditions in all the markets we are in. And that's basically what drives high capacity utilization, both in the factories and in the fields, and therefore high EBIT results.
Here we acquired a smaller company in addition to Styrud, which I mentioned before, Rossaro Kanaltechnik in southern Germany, giving us a better position, especially in the southern part of Germany. Yeah, and the picture you can see is from a project in Germany, a very, very large hose tube of, I think, close to 650 meters that we have transported from our factory in Aarhus down to the installation site in Krefeld in Germany. Order backlog, order intake also on an all-time high level, order backlog, almost DKK 26.5 billion and order intake of almost DKK 25 billion, and basically positive in almost all segments. And there has been no especially big orders this year. It is a mix of smaller and medium-sized order intake.
That's also very positive that we have, because as we have spoken earlier about, that's what gives the base of our operations. So it's very positive that we have been able to get that high number of order intake during the year. Guidance for the next year. I think there's a mistake in the headline. It says 2024, 20 25, but it's of course 2025, 2026. Sorry for that. We expect a revenue growth of between 6% and 11%, meaning a revenue in the range of DKK 24 billion-DKK 25.1 billion, and then expected EBIT margin between 5% and 5.0% for the coming year. That was a very quick run-through of the figures. And then we can go to questions and answers.
Thank you. If you do wish to ask a question, please press five-star on your telephone keypad.
If you wish to withdraw your question, you may do so by pressing five-star again. The first question is from the line of Kristian Tornøe from SEB. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.
Thank you. A couple of questions from my side. If we start with your guidance for the construction segment, you are guiding for 4.5%-5%. Looking at the results for the past three years, you have been above 5%. So can you just elaborate on the logic behind guiding for a somewhat lower margin?
We can at least try, Kristian. It's great that we have in recent years landed higher than we guide for next year. One of the reasons is, I think we have also communicated earlier that the Fehmarnbelt project is taken very conservatively, and that, of course, affects the figures for the coming year. That's at least part of one of the explanations.
Okay, but just to give some perspective on that comment, is the revenue contribution from the Fehmarnbelt project expected to be larger in the next fiscal year than it was in?
Yeah. As I say, the expectation is that we will start submerging the elements, start of 2026.
So that will start to ramp up, Kristian. Yeah.
Okay. But there is no change to the margin as such for that project, right? So it's more the mix effect you're alluding to. Is that the way to understand it?
Yeah. There will be more revenue on the project next year. EBIT-wise, we are still taking in it as conservative. And then it's also how the project mix looks at the moment. And that's also how do the products develop. No more during the year, but it's based on what we know at the moment, the guidance.
Sure. Fair enough. Then on technical solutions, the order intake was quite strong in Q4. So maybe if you can elaborate on what has driven that. And also, that is the segment where you then guide the lowest revenue growth for next year. So yeah, those two elements, just some perspective would be nice.
So when you come to order intake, there are some projects within the pharmaceutical sector that has been signed in the quarter. And then we also have some hospital projects where there have been some additional works added to some existing projects. And when you come to next year, I think we have had significant growth the last few years. So we are at a high level. And you can say when we compare with this year, next year, we'll probably have around the same revenue on our two major projects within the hospital sector. And then we do not expect any increases with the revenue within the pharmaceutical sector. We are at a very high level. So that's really what is the reason behind not expecting that much growth next year.
As Mogens said, I think we have seen two-digit growth for the last three years in technical solutions.
It's beyond high level.
Is there an element of this as well where you now say that, I mean, there's a limit to how much more you can take in terms of having available resources as well?
Yeah. And you also know that there are some clients within the pharmaceutical sector that are probably not investing as much in new factories as they have done over the last two years. And then there's also the timing on the next larger projects. So there will be the next larger project that will come out for specifically our hospital. So it's also some timing. But yes, resources is, of course, also a limiting factor. But it's more also the number of projects out there.
Sure. Makes sense. And then my last question on ground engineering. I know historically, foundations for onshore wind turbines was a decent part of your German business. And obviously, that has come down. But looking at the auctions in Germany, that has picked up tremendously. So you can say the pipeline, a future onshore wind project in Germany looks much brighter. To what extent is this something you can tap into? And to what extent is that something which could even hit your revenue already here next year?
Yeah. We already saw this financial year. So we had a few wind projects, onshore wind projects contributing to this financial year. We just closed. And you're right that the pipeline is looking much better than it has done in the past. And at the same time, you have also the infrastructure plan in Germany. What we hear is that the consultants are very busy. So that should hopefully materialize in some projects maybe 2025, 2026, but at least the coming financial year.
I think we can say, Kristian, that the pipeline looks pretty good in almost all the countries for ground engineering. But bearing in mind what we have seen this year with the postponed projects and canceled projects, we are a little bit careful about how fast that will move forward in Germany.
So in general, we would expect ground engineering to have a stronger second half than first half. I think that's our view at the moment. Yeah.
That's a good way to say it.
Okay. Makes sense. Excellent. That was all for me. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Sebastian Graabæk from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.
Yes, Mogens. And thank you also for taking my questions. And congratulations on another record year. For a start, yes, Mogens, could you just confirm? So it's my understanding that the new district heating contracts for Vestforbrænding, they are not included in the core. Is that correct?
That's correct. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a Q1.
That would be a Q1 booking.
Yeah.
Okay. Perfect. And then as a follow-up to the discussion with Kristian on the ground engineering, so in the quarter, fairly good activity, both in terms of order intake, P&L performance, and also, I mean, guidance next year suggesting a margin normalization in the segment. As I remember, Q4 last year, it was also fairly solid. And it didn't turn out to set the tone for the subsequent quarters. So I mean, maybe you talked a bit around it before, but what are your thoughts around this segment? And I mean, how much conviction do you have at this point that the worst is behind?
I think we can repeat that pipeline going forward looks quite good in almost all the countries we are in. But we, of course, also can see what we experienced this year, that even though that we also earlier this year said that there was a good pipeline, we still saw projects being postponed, some projects being canceled very late, low demand for the precast piles. But I think we can say that the pipeline still looks good. But of course, we are a bit cautious about based on what we have seen this year, we have just went out of. And I think we can also say that out of the five segments, ground engineering is the segment where we have the biggest uncertainty.
Yeah. Okay. That's fair, but it's also fair to say that this cautiousness that you allude to, it's also partly reflected in the guidance you give for the year.
Correct.
Yes. Correct. Correct.
Super. Then a question on capital allocation, and so you pay out a dividend of DKK 12. I don't see you mentioning anything about the buybacks, which you're nearing the end of the current program. Has anything changed in your thinking around capital allocation and buybacks? Is there anything to reach that you're not mentioning in the annual report, or is it simply not the time for you to address that thing?
Basically, we have a program that is running until spring. So it will be a subject either on the May or maybe February board meeting whether to extend the program or establish a new one. So it's basically a question about when the current program expires. That's the reason why I'm not mentioning it. So you will hear more either in our Q1 or our Q2.
Okay. No, that was all for me. Thank you so much for taking my questions.
Thank you.
Next up, we have Alexander Busch from Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.
Yes. Thank you so much for taking my questions. And just on pipe technologies, you have a long-term margin target of 7%. But over the past six years, you've delivered around 8% on average. I think one year you've been at 7%. That was during the inflation crisis in 2022. You delivered above 9% in 2025, and you're guiding 7%-9%. So given that it seems that you've seen a structural improvement in the market and the margin, is there anything to suggest that the margin should contract in pipe technologies going forward?
That's always difficult to say. As we mentioned, the market conditions are very good at the moment in almost all our markets. We see more money floating in. We have invested a lot in our product technology and development, and basically, we are seeing now the result of all the investments we made, so we are in a very good position. I think we raised our long-term target in 2024, and so we thought it was a bit too early to adjust it in 2025, but we are in a very good place, Alexander. But I think it's also highly contributable to the investments we have made over the.
Yeah, then we have no fallout of any country, so I think that's also need to be seen in that respect.
And especially, as we mentioned, Germany is a very important market for us.
It's the largest market where we are present. And the conditions down there are quite good there at the moment. And it's also proving to be the right thing about being more regional. I think we talked about it before, that we are moving into more regional structure. We can see that that's also starting to pay off. And we are putting even more focus on that because it's the right way to do it down in Germany.
Okay. Thank you. That's very clear. And then just maybe a follow-up on the Fehmarn Belt. There's been a lot of, you can say, articles in the media focusing on a few issues on the project. Just so I understand correctly, could you maybe put a few words on the status of the project? And seeing that you mentioned before that you are beginning to lower the elements in 2026, does that mean that the issue regarding the depth of the trench has been resolved? Or how should we think about that?
I think we can answer in that way that it's correct. As we can see in the media that there are different issues on the projects. I think that's also what we have communicated earlier in Q1, Q2, and Q3. We are in, as we have also communicated earlier, a good and constructive dialogue with the client, Sund & Bælt, and trying to resolve these different issues, and that dialogue is still both good and constructive, so we are continuing to see if we can find solutions on those issues to the benefit, basically, both for the project and the parties involved.
Okay. And is it fair to assume that you apply your usual, you can say, conservative income recognition on a large project of this type?
Yes. Yeah. We are conservative in the intake of EBIT.
Okay. Great. And just one more question from my side. I appreciate it's hard to comment too concretely on the defense projects given the sensitivity of the projects. But could you maybe put a few words on how you see the defense space coming along in terms of timing and the size of the market? Is it, yeah, going as fast as you've previously expected, or are you seeing anything different?
No, I think we can still see an increase in demands. We are getting more and more contacts from different clients. So I think it's developing almost as we expect. Yeah.
Yeah. We see. We have.
We see the first orders.
We have just talked. It's also contracted.
We have got the first contracts.
Yeah. Although that day they cannot be mentioned, but we do have going to award the first contracts.
That's very clear. That was all for me. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Next up, we have August Pretzmann from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.
Thank you very much. Hello, Jesper, Mogens, and thank you as well for taking my questions. If I may revert back to the ground engineering segment, I mean, you mentioned, and you also talk about it today, that your full-year results in ground engineering is due to low capacity utilization. But are you able to share with us or quantify what utilization rate the ground engineering segment was running on in Q4 versus an optimal level? And where are you currently running here in Q1?
I will say like that. It was still too low. It was better in Q4, especially in Sweden. We saw improvement also in Denmark due to a specific project, but it was still too low if you look at the overall picture. We are still not happy in Q1. I think we can say it like that, and that's also reflected in the guidance, and as I said, we expect a better second half year than first half year, and also to add one more comment that we have also said earlier that the prices were too low, and then that's also part of the better result we saw in Q4 that we have managed to increase price levels not to where we want to be, but at least in the right direction.
It's starting to improve, but not.
Okay. As I said, we have a significant impact.
Yeah. That's fine. Yeah. And I suppose the 8% margin you deliver in Q4 for the ground engineering segment, I mean, also looking at your historical performances, that is pretty close to peak, I would assume. But say if you were to return to normalized utilization rates at the current pricing level and at the current cost base, what sort of margin could you expect from the ground engineering segment?
You can say we have significant investment in the ground engineering. So in order to deliver the return on the investor capital, we need to be at least 6%-8% for a total year. So we need to have a fourth quarter times four. Then we are starting to be heavy. And that's also achievable with the complexity in those projects we are doing. And when the factories start to get more volume, then it's really a volume business as well in the factories. Especially factories is a volume business. But also all the equipment we have, that's also a volume business.
Many rigs in the field.
Yeah. So we need to have more of these complex projects where we can add our special know-how. And then we need to have more of the bread and butter business coming back. And we saw partly that in our fourth quarter. But if you also look at the history, our Q1 and Q2 has always been the weak ones. And we need to improve those.
So maybe then I suppose that the current backlog in the ground engineering segment, the margin profile of this backlog, should we assume this to be better than last year? Or do you expect it to carry similar margins? And then it all depends on capacity utilization?
It's improving, so it's better, but not where we want it to be yet, and to the second quarter, yes, it's also our capacity that will help, and that's where we said when we look at the pipeline, it will be more in the second half than in the first half. We will hopefully see an improvement also in the first half, but when we compare with last year, that's also achievable. It was not a good first half year.
Okay. Thank you very much. If I may move on to a question on M&A. So you've made some larger acquisitions this year. And it's my impression that you may still have appetite for more additions. So I was wondering if you're able to share your thoughts on what areas additional M&A could be of interest? Are there any specific geographies or segments where it could be particularly relevant?
I think we can answer as we have done in the past that we are maybe looking for new geographies and new competencies, and you can say mostly in our specialized segments, so it's basically what we have communicated, what we have communicated earlier. That's the same strategy.
Yes. We can say Rossaro and perhaps [Nordics] is a good of the geography that we have strengthened our position in the Stuttgart area, and you can say Styrud is a good example of getting new technology in, so it's things like that that we are looking at.
All right. Thank you very much. Last question from me on the cash flow, so congratulations on your improvement on the working capital here in Q4. Are you able to share your expectations for the upcoming year? Should we expect similar levels? Or what is the cash flow looking like for next year?
We were positively surprised about our fourth quarter. Normally, we consume working capital. That was a positive surprise. I think I've said earlier that in the long run, we would expect between 5%-8% working capital due to the type of business we're doing. I think we are around 5% now. That's probably in the low end. But it's really also depending on the large projects. That could bring it further down if we secure some large projects with down payment. But I would not expect significant improvement from the level we are at now. If we can keep it, I would be happy.
That was very clear. Thank you very much, Jesper, Mogens. That was all for me.
Thank you.
As there are no further questions from the conference call at this point, I will hand it back to Jesper for any closing remarks.
Thank you from our side. Thank you for your interest in our company. And thank you for the many good questions. I hope that you got good answers back. But thank you for today. And have a good day.