Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Schouw & Co. Q4 2018 annual report. Today, I am pleased to present CEO Jens Bjerg Sørensen. For the first part of the call, all participants will be in listen-only mode, and afterwards there'll be a question-and-answer session. Speaker, please begin your meeting.
Thank you very much. Good morning to everyone. Welcome to our 2018 annual report presentation. In general, as Schouw & Co. had a year with a very high activity level and also many future-proofing products. We experienced tough competitions in many of our markets. We saw challenging conditions, but we continued to invest, and over the year, we invested DKK 1.5 billion. We made two bold acquisitions. Should I elaborate overall, I would say we had, in spite of all that, an acceptable year. Revenue was up by 7% to DKK 18.3 billion. We saw a positive full-year effect from our recent acquisitions of Bow and Alimentsa in Ecuador. In general, our companies have kept all market shares and positions with the exception of BioMar in Norway. Our EBITA increased slightly to DKK 1.58 billion. Profitability from the companies within our portfolio give us.
We also saw some one-off impacts during the year. Cash flow from our operations improved to DKK 837 million. We had new companies and high activities, which demands higher net working capital. Net working capital still at a high level, but again, high activity in general. Also in some of our companies, we had to compensate long delivery times on important components by stocking more. Capital discipline will be a future focus area and has always been an area within Schouw & Co. Our guidance for 2019, we expect the revenue to grow 10% to DKK 20 billion. EBITA in the range of DKK 1,815 million-DKK 1,975 million. Also we have to remark that IFRS 16 will have a positive effect of around DKK 200 million on our EBITDA guidance.
We expect the CapEx to be around DKK 650 million in 2019. Majority will come from finalizing BioMar's factories in Australia, also expansion of the BioMar factory in Brande in Denmark. We are also doing some new capacity extensions in BioMar in Ecuador. Most of our new capacity investments will come from BioMar. With that, I will turn to BioMar 2018, where we saw a revenue up with 4% to a turnover of DKK 10.3 billion. It was a 5% increase in volume to 1.2 million tons in our fully consolidated companies. We also saw a positive full-year effect from the acquisition of Alimentsa in Ecuador, whereas we saw lower volume as expected in Norway due to tough competition and contract negotiations over the year. The EBITA in BioMar came out at a satisfactory level. It was same level as last year, DKK 713 million.
We saw very good performance in 11 out of 12 companies. Strong performance from Alimentsa in Ecuador and also our EMEA division really performed very strong. Both of them compensates the declining volumes we saw in Norway. Let me just take a few highlights from 2018. As I have elaborated on already, the market conditions in Norway changed. We saw very tough competition and very low and unsatisfactory margin levels. Our Alimentsa acquisition is fully integrated, very successfully integrated, and it's contributing to the development at a very high level. Our CapEx investments in the new Tasmanian factory in Denmark, Ecuador, et cetera, are running and according to budget. We saw also a very good and strong development in our non-consolidated companies. Our feed joint ventures contributed with a result of DKK 30 million under the result of tax, after tax.
We also saw very strong profitability in our Chilean farming company, Salmones Austral, where we have a 23% holding. In fact, on 100% basis, turnover in Salmones Austral was DKK 1.6 billion and EBITA was impressive, DKK 422 million. Looking at the guidance for 2019 for BioMar, we expect revenue to be a little bit over DKK 10 billion. We expect the EBIT in a range from DKK 820 million-DKK 890 million, and again, impact from IFRS 16 will be around DKK 130 million on the BioMar figures. We expect lower volume in Norway also in 2019. We have worked a lot on refocusing our strategy in Norway. We emphasize much more profitability, innovation, and partnership, and we have decided to decline contracts with too low margins. Our associated companies expect profit after tax in the level of around DKK 80 million.
We will continue to focus on profitable customers and contracts, as well as continue to be innovative and develop functional feed. We will also run strict cost control, and we will work on our new strategy in Norway. From BioMar, I'm turning to Fibertex Personal Care. Revenue was up by 8% to DKK 2.2 billion. We saw continued growth in Asia, but it was lower than expected. Our prints division, our print business, is in a very good development. EBITDA was as expected, reduced from DKK 365 million-DKK 315 million. We experienced, as we also told the market, a negative effect from our raw materials and also currency of around DKK 20 million in 2018. Our start-up of print in Malaysia also had a negative impact, as expected, of around DKK 10 million on our EB. We saw a very good performance in our Danish operation, despite very tough markets.
A few highlights from 2018, the construction of our print facility in the U.S., a DKK 100 million investment, is well on track. Expect to operate in Q1 in 2019. We continue to have very strong focus on developing new and higher value and innovative products. Our guidance for 2019 will be a revenue of about DKK 2.3 billion, small growth. EBITDA is expected in a range of DKK 320 million-DKK 340 million, and here we see very limited effect from the IFRS 16. Capacity investments in all markets where Fibertex Personal Care is present creates a challenging and competitive landscape. We have been working a lot on streamlining and efficiency initiatives, that will be ongoing also in 2019. From there to Fibertex Nonwovens. Revenue increased 11% to DKK 1.6 billion despite the continued tough markets.
We saw a positive development in our U.S. operations, and also here we experienced the effect from our recent acquisition, our acquisition of Duci in Brazil. EBITDA decreases from DKK 179 million to DKK 160 million, and that comes out at a disappointing level. Especially Q4 was a disappointment for us. But we also have to see that raw material prices was challenging throughout the year and had a negative effect compared to 2017 with DKK 20 million, and it was very difficult to pass these effects on to our customers. One-off costs also in Fibertex Nonwovens in 2018 on restructuring our setup in India, had a negative impact of DKK 10 million. 2018, we started the industrial scale production of our nanoproducts and advanced filtration media. We intend to become a leading player in the global filtration industry, and it just started up. Our Brazilian company was fully and successfully integrated.
We acquired, at the beginning of 2019, a new factory in Greenville, U.S. Investment of DKK 140 million. This investment is not expected to be profitable before 2020, but it's a unique opportunity to increase capacity and state-of-the-art in U.S., where we are expanding. Outlook for 2018, revenue of around DKK 1.65 billion. EBITDA in a range from DKK 165 million to DKK 185 million. Also here, limited effect from IFRS 16. We expect some start-up costs from our new U.S. factory and reshuffling of product portfolio. We have initiated a full-blown strategic review of Fibertex Nonwovens. We have ambitious plans for optimizing our operational model and also rationalizing our factory footprint and drive our cost base down. From there to GPV. Revenue was up 6% to DKK 1.2 billion. We were satisfied with the growth, but we also saw a few large customers experience lower demands. Order intake is still on a good track.
EBITDA in GPV was up from DKK 107 million to DKK 115 million. And here it's interesting to look into what I call the original or old part of GPV, which delivered very solid results because we had a negative impact on our EBITDA from starting production facility in Mexico of DKK 25 million and also acquisition costs of the CCS acquisition of around DKK 10 million in 2018. A few highlights also from 2018. Our Mexico operation shows progress but still lacks top line. Our factory facilities in Thailand extended to secure capacity and improve efficiency. Then the big thing for GPV in 2018, we acquired the Swiss-based company, CCS. An acquisition or investment of DKK 800 million, and by that, we create a very strong and leading European EMS company. We have a lot of strong plans for integrating CCS into GPV.
CCS has a very strong customer base in what we call the DACH region, and we are now working on finding synergies, which we expect will come from sourcing global footprint, et cetera. 2019 guidance. We have a lot of integration going on in 2019. We see a little softer demand in our semiconductor-related business, especially at our DACH region customers. However, revenue expected to be in the area of DKK 2.7 billion-DKK 2.8 billion. We guide EBITDA range from DKK 190 million to DKK 210 million. Here we also have an IFRS 16 effect of DKK 13 million. 2019 will be a year where we will integrate CCS into GPV. A lot of things will be going on. We expect one-off restructuring integration costs of around DKK 15 million. They are included in our guidance.
We expect 2019 really to be a year where we have to learn to know, to get deeper into our new company and get these two companies integrated. Still a very positive long-term view on this new company. We expect also that what we call the DACH region as of the CCS acquisition will over time have similar margins as what we mentioned the old GPV. From GPV to HydraSpecma, which had a very strong year with a revenue increase of around 11% to DKK 2 billion, was really a milestone for HydraSpecma to reach a DKK 2 billion turnover. We saw continued strong momentum in the main segments out of Denmark and Sweden, also had a strong order intake and a very good backlog also into 2019. EBITDA increased from DKK 148 million to DKK 175 million.
We had expected increase in cost of future-proof and grow the business, we have also invested in future. We had a difficult year on component prices increasing. It was difficult fully to compensate, again, strong efficiency overall in the company gave good earnings. In the 2018 highlights, we were finalizing the construction of our new glass facility in Poland, we expect it to be full operating in Q1 2019. We started our production of complete hydraulic systems for wind turbines in China. We started to build a new logistics center in Finland, we developed a strong Scandinavian cooperation with Danfoss in 2018. Outlook for 2019 revenue, again, about DKK 2 billion. EBITDA in the range from DKK 210 million-DKK 230 million. IFRS 16 effect of around DKK 30 million.
We will, in 2019, continue to improve efficiency, we will also have strong focus on reducing net working capital within the HydraSpecma. Last company, Borg Automotive. We had a revenue of almost DKK 1 billion, same level as 2017. However, volume increased 8%. In Borg, we experienced soft demand in Q4. Destocking seems to be an industry trend. Speaking to others in the industry, we see that. Again, we still have a strong and a leading market position within Borg, was reconfirmed over the year. EBIT increased to DKK 130 million, we also have to say that in 2017, EBITDA was negatively impacted by PPA regulations of DKK 53 million. Looking at Borg earnings in 2018, it was slightly disappointing due to the Q4 development. We have to say that we saw a negative impact from regulation of what we call cores.
That was quite a huge impact on the earnings around difference 2017 of DKK 25 million. We are seeing consolidation going on among large customers, that increases our bonus payments to some of them. It also gives long-term opportunities to increase sales to these customers. We are working on establishing a new production facility for brake calipers in Lublin in Poland. We have a strong tradition for production in Poland. We have a lot of initiatives going on on developing what we call new mechatronic products, also a project on digitalizing our entire value chain and customer relations. 2019 revenue expected of around DKK 1 billion. We see an EBITDA in the range from DKK 140 million-DKK 150 million. IFRS 16 effect of around DKK 11 million. The guidance is also based on that we expect soft demand uncertainty to continue some months still.
We see large customers destocking. We also see some uncertainty and nervousness in the market due to what's going on on the Brexit side. We have a lot of interesting new products in our customer pipeline. We are also running a strong cost out and efficiency program overall in the company. Let me wrap up and finalize. Into 2019, we still see challenging markets, but also interesting opportunities. We have our strong market positions. We have capacity ready. We are going to use that. We expect to grow in 2019. We are working on what we call our 2019 general mindset, profits before growth. We are, of course, going for volume. We see 2019 as a year where we also will work on reducing our CapEx, let our assets sweat. We expect, as I said from the start, revenue of around DKK 20 billion.
EBITDA is expected in the range of DKK 1.815 billion-DKK 1.975 billion. Here, we have an IFRS 16 effect of DKK 205 million. All companies will have strong focus on profitability. Still, also we are future-proofing our companies. We do not accept to supply customers where we are not able to have a reasonable margin. We will manage our costs carefully. As I mentioned, we expect lower CapEx investments. With that closing remark, I would open up for questions.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you do have a question for the speakers, please press 01 on your telephone keypad now. The first question is from the line of Claus Almer from Nordea. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Thank you. Just a few questions from my side. The first, yes, is for BioMar. The wording you have in the annual report is, an extreme competitive situation, competitive market. I think that's a more harsh description of the market than we've seen in the past. Maybe you could put some more color to this and also what you said during the presentation, and you also have in the report that you will give priority to the long-term earnings. How will that play out in 2019? That would be the first question.
Thank you, Claus Almer. I think when we are talking BioMar and saying extreme competition, we have to refer to Norway. Of course, there's competition globally, but it's Norway in particular. We have strong positions in all markets, but Norway has, over the last years, changed, and margins and prices have really declined. We have decided that we need to refocus our way of doing business in Norway and not just running after volume at whatever margin and decided to decline contracts where we don't see margins that will be able to support our innovation cost and our future-proofing. We are on a transforming strategy in Norway. We have changed management. We have changed a lot of things there, and 2019 will be a year of change in Norway.
Should we then expect stable margins but a volume impact, or how will these considerations play out this year?
The considerations, Norway, we will see and expect volume down, and we expect to stabilize margins. We expect Norway to be profitable in 2019, but we have decided that we are not going for large volumes with uninteresting margins, so volume will be down.
You mean volume will go down. Stable margins, volume will go down, right?
Yes, volume goes down.
Yeah. Okay.
That's a part of our guidance, that volume is down. Yeah.
Sure. My second quick goes for M&A activity. Also, the comments you made that Finn is going to have a full-blown strategic review, as I heard you. Does that also imply a possible divestiture, or how should we understand this comment?
Not at all. It's a comment on that we have now been buying and building ahead that strategy and developed a global platform over the years. We have experienced tough market conditions and so on. We need to look into our factory footprint, the setup, and our investment platform. We intend to strengthen our business on what we call added-value products and move up on the product assortment and change our product mix. Let's see what comes out of this strategy review, something going on over the next months.
Well, okay. You mentioned strategic review in many of the divisions, and if you look at return on invested capital for all of your divisions for the last four or five years, we have actually seen a decline. That obviously is not satisfying, but it's mostly due to the investments you have made, or should we be more concerned about this declining trend? That'll be the last question.
I think if you look into the figures, Claus, you'll also see we invested a lot into capacity. I think also that's a comment that I make that if we look into 2019, 2020, we think we have the capacity that we can utilize. It's huge investments. We also tie up, as I mentioned, and we have done that for some years, too much net working capital. We are really working hard on that. It's been a tough year on that in 2018 because of severe lack of components, long delivery times, et cetera. Investments and networking capital are main reasons for the decline in the return on invested capital.
Okay, thank you.
Next question is from the line of Jonas Ryberg from Danske Bank. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Yeah, good morning. My first question would be on BioMar also and the big contract that you was going to renegotiate with Lerøy at the end of 2018, as far as I remember. Could you tell us how the negotiation has gone here and if it's extended?
Yeah. Thank you for the question, Jonas. We have decided not to enter the Lerøy contract because the margins we were offered on prolonging the contract is unattractive and is not part of our new strategy in Norway. As I said at the beginning, we have refocused Norway. We have for some years built markets here, built volume, et cetera, and we can see now that just running after volume is not profitable for us. We see another way in Norway, and we think we can be even more profitable by looking at contracts in a new way. In our guidance and in the way we view BioMar in 2019, it's without volume to Lerøy, but let's see what the year ends with.
Sure. Am I right in remembering that this contract was a couple of hundred thousand tons a year?
Around 170,000 tons. We will have some volume this year, we will, overall, as I also said, at Claus' question, we will be down on volume in Norway.
Sure.
We will have some volume this year, but the large and big volume, we are declining.
Okay. It is in your guidance?
It's in our guidance and to be very open, we also think it's time for rethinking Norway because we have been struggling to get sufficient margins in Norway over some years. It's a very important market for us because that's where we do our innovation and a lot of things, but sometimes you also need to say, okay, can we go to the market in a different way?
Sure. Is it too early to then talk about how your customers is reacting to this new approach?
Yeah, it's much too early.
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Okay, good. On nonwovens and the strategic review here, it is planned for first half of 2019, I can see. Will it end with some kind of an announcement, or will it be the result will be published in connection with the half-year results, or how should we see this?
We are not announcing any results. I will elaborate on that as it goes along. Maybe also on Q1, what have we seen and so on. It takes time. Maybe at the half-year announcement, we will elaborate on it and say, okay, now we see the strategy for Fibertex Nonwovens, what way we are going. Of course, when we are commenting on it here, it is also because we are going to elaborate on it later on, definitely.
Sure. One thing that pops up within Fibertex continuously is the loss-making unit in South Africa. I remember we talked about it in the past.
Yeah
You had to kind of get it to break even because the closedown cost for this part of the business is attractive compared to the loss run rate you have.
Yeah. It is just.
So-
That's right. We are running a project, now I forgot the name, but we are running a project in South Africa closing down. We have reduced costs, administration, et cetera. We are closing down one line. This line number 2, as we call it, will be transferred to our new site in U.S. to the Greenville factory we just acquired.
There's space for that, and we are lacking capacity in U.S. U.S. has developed very strongly for us the last years, and that's part also of what we call our global strategic review. Where do we put our capacity, et cetera. South Africa, there is a strong plan going on. We expect really to see a lot of improvements this year. We already see it, and now when we have closed down this line and so on. That's the plan, and I will elaborate on that also at the coming announcements. Yeah.
Okay. Is it fair to assume that you are expecting break even in South Africa in 2019?
EBITDA break even, yes. It's fair to expect. Yeah.
Okay. My last question is on GPV, sorry, there's a lot of numbers here.
Yeah
you made an EBITDA of DKK 115 this year.
Yeah
with a drag down of DKK 25 from Mexico and DKK 10 from transaction cost in CCS.
Yes.
If we're adding the DKK 125 from CCS in.
Yeah
2019.
Yeah
takes out the restructuring cost you have announced and the write-down of the inventories, add the IFRS impact, then I get to somewhere around DKK 250 million in EBITDA, but you're guiding significantly less than that. How come?
Yeah. No. The numbering is right if you look into it, but we still see Mexico running with a loss in 2019. Not at the size we saw in 2018. We are still on the way of building Mexico up. We expect some of the CCS customers to go to Mexico also. In the guidance, there's a loss of Mexico. Of course, we also to be open on that, build in some kind of uncertainty in such a big integration job that we are going to. We have to look into CCS. We are also prudent on factory footprint, et cetera. In a year like this, you cannot just add all numbers on top of each other. Of course, we have taken some caution into these figures, definitely.
Okay. Very clear. Thank you very much for your answers.
Yeah. Thank you.
Next question is from the line of Laurits Kjaergaard from ABG. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Good morning, Jens. Thank you for taking my question, and I hope your journey to Copenhagen was well. I have three topics that I'd like to address. Let's take the first one first, in regards to operational leverage. Let's take CCS first, which you had the previous caller talking into, where you mentioned in your opening statement that you want to source footprints between CCS and GPV. In addition, you mentioned in the opening statement that you are working on this operational model leverage to build up cash flow in 2019. Could you take us through sort of the operational leverage that you want to find in GPV or in CCS to bring it up to the level of GPV?
Yeah. Thank you very much, Laurits. We are not commenting 100% on the factory footprint yet because a lot of things is going on and you also know you have to scrutinize every unit carefully, and there's also a lot of things. When do you announce to employees, et cetera, what is going on? It's part of our review. We will carefully review it, and we have what we call a best cost country philosophy in the new setup. We have to evaluate carefully. There will be things restructured and let's see when we get out of 2019. If we are looking at driving cash flow both in the GPV and in general, we have a lot of initiatives going on sourcing where we expect to, if we take GPV, to start that as one of the first things.
That's what I call the easiest low-hanging fruit, is to look into suppliers, stocks, prices, et cetera. That's one thing. In general, in Schouw & Co. and in all companies, we are pushing our networking capital hard. We are looking into how can we operate in a different way, et cetera. It takes time, and sometimes you are hit by the market with long delivery times on components, et cetera. There's still room for improvement.
Just a follow-up question there. You mentioned in the opening statement that you want to lower CapEx or at least have conservative CapEx for 2019 and let your assets sweat. Here you're also pushing your networking capital here. Could you just say, are you making many reviews in 2019 in GPV, in Fibertex, in nonwovens? Making the reviews and then perhaps spending the money next year in 2020?
I know that it's difficult, of course, to be too precise in 2020, I don't see any huge investments in the coming two years. Of course, things can happen. We have a capacity platform that can grow, and we've seen that before. Sometimes you need to ramp up capacity and then you say, "Okay, now we are here. Let's take a time where we really let the assets sweat." Sometimes also scrutinize your customer portfolio and say, "Do we supply segments or customers with too low margins?" It's a good exercise sometimes to stop and do.
That's very clear. Just a last question here. On page 17 of your new report, you talk about this macroeconomic sensitivity for nonwovens, GPV and HydraSpecma. Whereas for Alimentsa and BioMar, these are more affected by the Brexit risks. Could you talk us through, when you're guiding, how are you guiding on these sort of macro uncertainties that you and I have basically no idea about?
Yeah. I think, of course, the basic macro we don't have any idea about, we can look into some segments which we know will be affected from the global macroeconomy. That is the automotive industry. Alimentsa is supplying into, although it's spare parts, et cetera, it's supplying into the automotive industry. Fibertex Nonwovens, a big supplier into automotives, et cetera. HydraSpecma supplying Volvo Construction Equipment, et cetera. It's these kinds of industries we know that if things happens and we see soft demand, small recessions, they'll be the first to be hit. That's in the way we guide.
Overall, are you quite conservative going into 2019 with all the troubles that we're basically reading about?
No, I think we are very realistic.
Thank you for my questions.
Thank you very much.
Just as a reminder, if you do wish to ask a question, please press zero one on your telephone keypad now. Next question is from Lars Heindorff from SEB. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Yes. Morning, gentlemen. Also a few questions from my part. Firstly, regarding Alimentsa. I don't know if you can give us a little bit more insight into how much you actually factored in in terms of impact from potential Brexit in the guidance there? That's my first question.
Yeah.
Yeah. Good morning, Lars, and thank you.
We have not factored nothing. Of course, we have been a little cautious, to say it that way, on our guidance. But it's so difficult to factor anything precisely in on Brexit. But to be realistic, we have a production set up close to Birmingham, where we import parts, and we sell a lot in U.K. of course, also. And U.K. is the biggest single market in Borg. So of course there's some uncertainties, but it's very difficult to be too precise on. But we have factored some cautiousness into the guidance. Yes.
Then a little bit about BioMar. I know I'm not going to ask you about the Lerøy contract again. But in general, now we've been talking about this for quite a while, the changes in the recipes and that you want to deliver sort of more value-added services and more functional foods. Can you give us a status on how that is progressing and how that has been received among your customers?
Yeah, it's progressing quite well. It has been received very good. But of course, also there are two things to remember. One thing is you always need to have a basic feed to supply to your customers. But the larger volumes, the more you are squeezed on margins, et cetera. So you need to look into a full package service, added value products, basic feeds, et cetera. That's what we are doing, and also, again, don't participate in the big competition on these volumes where you are squeezed. I think we will see a changed way of going to the market in Norway, and also our functional feed is today a significant percentage. We do not disclose it, to be honest, on our sales in Norway and also in the entire salmon division.
Okay. I know you say you're not going to disclose that, but can you give us a range maybe so we have an idea how much is what you call sort of base feed and how much is-
Yeah. Lars, a functional feed is of course, a lot of things. It's high energy, it's energy boosting, it's what the disease is for cataract and things like that, but it's plus 30% of our turnover. There's a lot of things going on on functional feed also, hatchery feed, freshwater feed, et cetera. It's a significant part of our volume and value. Yes.
Okay. All right. Thank you. The last one regarding M&A. Now the numbers, of course, this year is affected, at least the end balance is affected by the acquisition of CCS in Switzerland. Now you have the IFRS, which at least going to change the headline numbers. I don't know if it's going to change your view and your M&A approach going forward, but, do you have room for more? Do you still have appetite for more? Now I'm thinking particular regarding growing further into BioMar.
We are always on the look for something interesting in BioMar. It's difficult to find attractive acquisition targets. It's part of the strategy in BioMar is to grow. We came big into shrimp now with the acquisition in Ecuador. Of course, we are looking on how can we expand that and to create a very strong global shrimp division and so on. We are looking. It's difficult, not easy to find interesting targets. On M&A in general, of course, we are always open for opportunities, but as I also said, I think 2019, 2020 will be a period where we'll focus on running the platform we have, drive costs and efficiency, but also being innovative and using our capacity as good as possible.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Next question is a follow-up from the line of Jonas Skuldbøl from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Yes, thank you. Just a follow-up. You said in your start that you will focus on net working capital in 2019, and we've also seen a growth in working capital, and as a percentage of sales, working capital is now 19%. How should we think about this? How big is the opportunity here in driving cash out of working capital in the coming years?
Jonas, I would like to give you a figure, and I know you would hunt me on that figure for a long time, but we are very ambitious on it. We don't have a precise figure, to be honest, but we are ambitious, and we think we can do a lot. It's a tough work, and you need to change mindset all over because you have had a mindset now on growing and securing components, et cetera. That's a lot of things going on, and we are very ambitious on it.
If you gave me a number, it would be a big number?
Not that big.
Okay.
There's room for improvement. Definitely. Yes.
Okay. Thank you.
There are currently no further questions registered, so I will hand the call back to the speakers for any closing comments. Please go ahead.
Thank you very much, just a very short comment. Thank you to everyone for listening and for questions, good weekend to everyone. Thank you.
This now concludes the conference call. Thank you all for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.