Hello, welcome to the presentation of our first half year's results. Here we are, Tilde Kejlhof. Tilde is our CFO, and I'm Frank Gad, and I'm the CEO. With us, we have also Lars Bering, and Lars is behind the scene helping us with the technical issues. And [Søren] is busy with our customers, so he's not present today. We would like to go through the figures we have just released. For those of you who don't know us, we have been in business for 50 years. Last year, we sold our services and our products in 97 countries. We have now subsidiary business in 12 countries and three continents, so we are in North America, in Europe, and in Asia. We have 2,485 committed employees.
We are selling surface solutions and plastic solutions to industrial companies around the world. We try to act as an innovative, reliable, and competitive partner for our customers. We have many different technologies, we try to help the customer with plastic and surface solutions in many, many different areas and in many different industries. The picture here shows our Guide Wires. Guide Wires is one of our own products, our proprietary products. The Guide Wires business has been growing quite well in the first half of this year. However, the total business was not growing. We saw a top line decline of 2.2% in the first half. We sold for DKK 1,370,000,000 . However, first half last year was all-time high for the third half.
It is a decline, we are up against strong figures from last year. Our own brand, our own brands, fell with 18.9%, and that was the Ergomat business, and that saw a decline of 48%. All the other brands and product lines were growing. EBITDA fell with 7.8% to DKK 230 million, and the EBITDA margin fell 1.0 percentage points to 16.8%. Profit before tax fell with 29.7%, because on top of the negative growth on the top line, the lower EBITDA margin, we also saw higher depreciations due to the investments we made last year and have made so far this year, and we have seen a high interest rates that has led to higher cost on the debt burden.
We still made more than DKK 100 million in profit before tax in the first half. Earnings per share was DKK 6.97. We have decreased debt with DKK 22 million since the beginning of the year, and we have increased our equity with DKK 130 million since the beginning of the year, and this is after we have paid a dividend to the shareholders in the level of DKK 36 million, and we have also made a net purchase of own shares in the market. We have launched our new product here, which is a test kit in the Danish market, and we are now ready to go abroad and also launch the test kit in other European markets. This is produced by Meditec.
Here you have a comparison over the last two years, where we have been growing on the top line, we've been growing on the EBDA, we've been growing on the bottom line, and we have been growing on the equity, and we will also see that on the following slides here. This is the top-line development. We have been growing 10% in average during the last 12 years. However, in the first half of this year, we are down with 2.2 percentage points. We believe firmly that we will end up the year with a growth. However, it might be lower than what we have been saying so far, but we'll come back to that. EBDA was down with a 7.8% in the first half of this year.
However, it has been growing 16% in average over the last 12 years. The EBITDA margin was a bit down, but still at a very high level, so we're 1 percentage point down. The earnings before tax took a significant drop because of the higher interest rate, the higher depreciation, and the lower EBDA. Still, we are on a 12 months rolling at more than DKK 200 million. We have been growing 20% in average over the last 12 years, and we will get back on track. Net interest payment to EBDA is 2.2, and that is more or less the same level as we had at the end of 2022. It was a bit better in the first quarter, and now we're at 2.2 again. Still a healthy level.
Here we have then the first half year's result. You see in the first column, Q2 against Q2 last year, decline on all lines. Then the first half also declined on all lines except on the equity, where the equity was up to DKK 230 million, and it is actually up to DKK 258 million compared to end of June last year. We have had a strong cash flow from operations in the first half of this year, where we generated DKK 186 million. Since we are not too busy, we have also been able to scale down on a number of investments. We are still completing all the investments we had lost before we saw the top line declined. We are also launching new investments where needed.
Therefore, investment, so cash flow from investments has been decreasing from DKK 164 million last year to DKK 74 million this year. Therefore, the net generation of cash has been used to pay dividend and to reduce debt. Equity ratio is up and is now 45.7%, and this is first time we have ever been more than 45%. It's up from 40.8% at 12 months ago and 42.7% back in the end of 2022. I'm unhappy with the top line, I'm unhappy with the profitability. However, it is still at a reasonably good level, and then I'm happy with the development in the cash flow and in the equity.
I'm sure that the debt will be decreased further because we still are working with our net working capital to get that reduced if we don't get the top line up much faster than what we see at the moment. Here you see the development in our own brands, and we have seen the dark blue area, that is the Ergomat business, decline with 48% in the first half of this year. This is something we also have seen in the past when there is headwind in the world economy, then our customers delay investments in health and safety, and they delay investments in more capacity, and that is hurting us. Normally, it will improve again after a couple of quarters.
We have, however, seen that we have had a good increase in the animal housing ventilation business, in the Guide Wires business, in the medical packaging business, and in industrial standard components. All in all, we have sold more or less the same as we did in the first half of 2021 of own products. It is a focus area to, to, to increase the sales of own brands faster than we increase the rest of the business, because in general, we have better profitability on our own brands. We will get all-- hopefully, we'll get all the product lines to grow again very soon. Cleantech industry is growing again, and that is very nice.
We had a last year a decline in the first half, but now it's growing again, in the first half of this year, we are back on track, I would say, with a growth of 12.5% in the second quarter and 7.9% in the half year. We have seen good growth in automotive, we have also seen good growth in other demanding industries. We had a decline in the healthcare business, mainly driven by the lower sales of ergonomic products, but there's a growth in other areas of the business, and then the food-related business is overall down with 13.9%. That is what you see in, in the right corner at the bottom.
The picture in the first half is that 32% of the business is healthcare, 30% is Cleantech, 12% is food-related, and 6% is something on wheel, we call that automotive, and 20% is all your other industries. Then we ended 2022 with, I would say, a better customer concentration than we have had in the past, because now we have no customers who are 10% or more, and the 10th largest accounts for 48%, and the 20 largest account for 57%. The picture has not changed dramatically in the first of 2023. 15% of our sales is in North and South America, 10% is in Asia Pacific, 47% is in Europe, outside Denmark, and then 28% in Denmark.
We have spent the first half of this year to get our new factory in Poland up on track. We have got 12,000 sq m more to run, and that is used mainly by Ergomat, who now has space to grow again, but it has also given more space to the other companies in Poland. In China, we have consolidated Tinby and SP Moulding on one site, and then we've got more space around that site. We are, I think, in a better position with a lower cost base and the potential to improve our efficiency and still have good potential for growth. We have decided to build a new injection molding factory in Atlanta, in the U.S.
This one has not been shown on the chart yet because it will hopefully be ready middle of next year, but we will put it on the charts when we have it up in operation. That, that leaves us with a global footprint with 31 plants now, and then sales offices in the Netherlands, in Norway, in Sweden, and in Canada. We have not made any acquisitions at the beginning of this year. We've made three last years when we bought Davinci, Paboco, and Meditec, and we also were ready to do more acquisitions, and we have always coffee or ready if somebody wants to have a chat with us. Please give us a call or come.
Historically, we have been buying good companies with good management teams, and that has helped us to grow the top line, the bottom line, and made a better and stronger product portfolio. With the changes in the beginning of this year, where we saw a decline in the sales outside Denmark, mainly in North America, but we have seen growth in Denmark, then the figures has changed a bit here. Now our sales outside Denmark is down to 70%. Share of employees outside Denmark is down to 69%. And then we are close to one factory in China, so therefore, we have reduced from 18% to 17%, and on total from 32% to 31%.
We plan to open one in Atlanta, in the US, next year, and that will take us back to 18% and 32%. I still think that we'll continue to grow faster outside Denmark, as we have been doing the last decade or so, than we're growing in Denmark. What we see at the moment, I think, is that many customers are adjusting inventory level toward a changed environment, where the interest rate is higher, the growth is a bit slower, and the value chain has been normalized, so it is easier to get the goods when you need them. If it is easier to get the goods for when you need them, why tie up a lot of cash in inventory?
Our share price has had a very negative development in the beginning of this year, we are behind the market. I'm sorry for that. I hope that will improve. We have, however, over the longer run, been in top performer market. Here you see the slide of what has happened from 2016 to now, on the bottom one, you see what has happened from January 2010 and until now. We have paid the three growing dividend this year to all the shareholders, that is same level as we did last year, we intend to continue to pay between 15% and 20% of profit after tax to the shareholders. We have got more shareholders, we are now 350 shareholders, more than we were at the beginning of this year.
We're 3,650, and we have three large international shareholders. That is Danfoss in Sweden, Odin in Norway, and ATP in Denmark. Our largest shareholder is Schur Finance, and that is our chairman, Hans Schur, and his family with 15.7%, and I have 12%, and then we have the three big funds here, and all the other shareholders own the remaining 52%. International investors own one third of the shares, and Danish investors outside the management, one third of the shares.
Customers demand better and cheaper products. At the moment, we're busy helping our customers to make cost-out projects, so we try to help the customers to get rid of wood, metal, and glass, and substitute with plastic and composite, because that makes their products better, more competitive and lighter, and in many cases, also more durable. We manufacture globally with a powerful team, the right equipment, and the right technology. Customers focus on core business and outsource plastic production to us or competitors. We try to use our scale and our skill to make a more competitive solution for our customers, that gives the customer lower CapEx, lower OpEx, better quality. Customers want fewer and better suppliers.
Our ambition is to be preferred supplier, so when the customer is decreasing the number of suppliers, then it is important that he choose to continue with us, and the only way we can convince him to do that, that is that we give him good customer experience each time we have an opportunity to do so. Then there are the mega trends, a growing aging population, the climate, and the scarcity of resources. We have chosen to have a strong exposure to growing global industries, and that is healthcare, Cleantech, and the food industry.
I hope that we in Europe and also in North America, will get up in speed to put up more windmills on land and offshore, because we need it to get more green power going forward and to speed up the whole green transition, and here we have a lot to offer. We have also a lot to offer in the healthcare industry, where we need to improve our healthcare systems in many countries, including Denmark, and in the food industry, where we want better and safer food that makes a lower CO2 footprint. The outlook for 2023, we have adjusted it slightly. Previously, we said we expected to grow between 5% and 15%. I still expect that we will grow, we have not seen growth in the first half of the year.
I still believe that we will grow in the second half, so we reach somewhere between 0% and 10% on the top line as growth. We maintain our EBITDA margin between 16% and 19%, and that is also where we have been in the first half. The bottom line will go down due to the lower top line, the higher interest rates, so we now guide 7%-10% in earnings before tax, instead of 9%-12%. As you can see, there's still an overlap, so it's not so we have changed completely the outlook. We're just a bit more cautious. I think, with what has happened in the first half of the year, the new outlook is, of course, less optimistic, but I'm afraid it is very realistic, but there's still an overlap.
It might turn out at the end of the year that we could have lived with the old outlook, but we decided to change it now because the figures are as they are after the first six months. We still believe that, going forward, we can continue to grow with our customers, so we can have space for new customers. That is called organic growth. We will continue to make acquisitions, buy and build strategy, and prefer to buy good companies with own products and trademarks, so we get a bigger portfolio of own brands. The ambition is to generate revenue between DKK 3.3 billion and DKK 4 billion in 2024 and to increase the own brands, so that becomes 30% of sales from the 27% it was last year.
Continue the internationalization, that is why we are opening up a new plant in Atlanta, last year, we opened up a new plant in Bangkok, and this year, we have opened up a new big plant in Poland. We're also investing in all the other countries. We will include cooperation with our customers, increase the, the use of recycled material. We'll continue to invest, invest in technology and in people, and grow our competitive strengths, and all the time, try to act as an innovative, reliable, and competitive partner for our customers. It is still our ambition that we change ourselves from being in the light blue area, where we were last year, to be in the dark blue area next year. To do so, we have to grow this year and next year. Our EBDA margin last year was 18%.
That is still within the range we guide for this year, and I hope we next year can, can take it to an even higher level, so we're guiding 17%-20% as the 2024 ambition. The bottom line between 10%-12%. The earnings before tax in the level of DKK 400 million next year. The net interest paying debt to EBDA was 2.2 last year, and that is still the case, that we can gear the business more. We have between 2.2, or 2.5, or 3.5 for next year. The equity ratio was 42% last year, it is 45% now, and we guide between 25%-45%. There is, you can say, room in our balance sheet to expand the balance sheet.
However, the interest rate has gone up, and debt is not free anymore, which we also have realized this year. We need to have sustainability in everything we do, and therefore, we have an ambition to reduce our environmental impact from the operation to zero, latest by 2030. All the electricity we consume this year in Denmark, in Poland, and in Slovakia is based on green energy. Part of it we produce ourselves, part of it is with certificates. We have this year invested in a new solar panel farm in Finland that has just started to produce. We put more solar panels on the roof in Finland as well as in Slovakia, and we are still working with partners in Denmark to establish a big solar panel farm in, in Denmark, close to Juelsminde.
Until we have all this up and running, then we are buying power, green power from other people's windmills and solar panels. We have, as you know, reported on Scope 1 and Scope 2, and we are trying to get ready to report on all the new KPIs we have to report on in the future. We believe that we, with our team and our technologies, support all the Sustainable Development Goals. Plastic waste in the environment is, of course, a concern, so it has to be catched and recycled, understood. We do not produce all the consumer waste that is ending up in the oceans.
We have a responsibility to help to, to clean it, and here you see a fantastic picture from The Ocean Cleanup organization, and they are using our fenders to keep the net floating and catch the plastic waste in the Pacific Ocean here. Consumer waste can be made into new products. Here, we made a fence around the factory, where we are replacing wood fences. Here, we have made a floor in a 40-foot container for a French shipping company, where we have replaced the plywood floor with consumer waste. Here, we have made a new lid. Nycopac has made a pallet lid in 100% recycled plastic, and TPI's wind tools are produced in 90% recycled material, and then there's 10% virgin on top to give it a UV protection.
Here we have, together with Muuto, produced a unique chair that consists of 25% wood fiber and 75% plastic. Nycopac has developed this sleeve system that is all recyclable, and a number of the parts are produced in recycled material, and we're trying to illustrate that when you move the goods out to the customer, then it is a sleeve and a full pallet, and when it comes back, you can see on the top, at the bottom, then you can fold it, so it doesn't take up so much space, and thereby you can reduce the space needed for the return side.
All in all, we believe that we are part of the solution, we're not part of the problem, because the modern society needs our solutions in the Cleantech industry to make insulation, generating renewable energy, reducing energy consumption, cleaning air, cleaning water, and measure consumption of water, and gas, and electricity. In the healthcare industry, for diagnostic equipment, Guide Wires, ergonomic solutions, medical packaging, and drug- to- lung devices. In the food industry, all the way from the farm to the table, in automotive to make vehicles lighter and more energy efficient. Here, I think that the electrical vehicles will be a big opportunity for us, because you need a lot of plastic, and this is a new industry compared to the old combustion technologies. That was our presentation.
I would like to invite you with questions, so either put up your hand or just open the microphone. There are only a number, a limited number of people participating on this call. Who would be the first one?
Hi, guys. This is David, speaking.
Hi, David.
Hi, how are you?
Fine, thank you. How are you?
Good. Good. two, two questions. The first is on your acquisition pipeline. You mentioned that you haven't done an acquisition this year, but you, you're looking. How is it looking out there in terms of prospects, and valuation expectations from potential sellers, if they're becoming more reasonable or, or not?
Yeah, I think we have tried to make acquisitions on reasonable prices all the time. Historically, we have been buying companies typically at five times EBDA on a debt-free basis, and I still think that there will be opportunities to do so, and if we can do that, then it would make sense for the shareholders and for us. We see a number of, you can say, teasers, floating around in the market, but we've not seen too many deals done, actually.
Okay. The second question is just in light of rising interest rates, what is your philosophy on managing the mix of fixed versus floating rate, debt in your debt stack, including whether you hedge or not some of that interest rate risk?
We have traditionally used hedged interest rates, or you can say longer-term fixing of interest rates in our mortgage finance, and we still do so. Whereas in our overdraft facilities, we are using the floating interest rates. We have saved a lot of money on that strategy during the last 15 years, basically since the financial crisis, but we have been hit this year. Looking back, we should have had more hedged. You can see a description of the actual situation end of 2022 in our annual report, and perhaps Tilde will explain a bit more where we can find it and how it looks.
Yeah, it's like, on page 118, you can see the split between fixed, interest and, it's around, 20% of the debt is fixed.
Got it. Okay. All right, that's all for me for the moment.
The fixed interest rates consist of mortgage finance on buildings in Denmark, and then part of it is also, IFRS 16, basically, where we have rent agreements on buildings abroad, where the rent has been fixed for some years.
Understood. How much of the, the debt, balance, that net debt balance that we see in this interim report, how much of that is, is, lease liabilities?
Well, it's about DKK 212 in the end of the year.
Okay.
It's around the same level, half year.
Okay. Great. All right, that's it for me for the moment. I'll raise my hand-
Okay. Thanks.
-if I have a question. Thank you.
Thank you. Who's next?
I'll, I'll chime in here again, if there's no-
Welcome.
-other takers. Just on the working capital, you said that that's something you expect to continue to improve throughout the year. Are there particular metrics that you're that you're trying to target in terms of maybe inventory days on hand or, or kind of where do you think the biggest opportunities still remain through the end of the year to improve working, make your working capital leaner?
I think we can improve on our inventory, because in some areas we have some inventory that is moving too slow because our customers have slowed down what they actually buy from us. They have forecasted a higher level, so we have ordered raw material based on that higher level, that means we are still getting raw material in, the demand has maybe gone 20% down in some industries. It takes a while before you can say we get the inflow adjusted to the outflow. It is not fresh fish, so it is not something that will deteriorate, or it is plastic pellets in general, we can use that also next year. That's an area we have to improve it.
Then there is also an area with the ripples, because we have some customers who are getting too slow in paying the bills. We're trying to, we're trying to improve that. We have slowed down on what we actually are buying, so that means our debt to our suppliers is lower than what it usually should be. Coming back to concluding on this, we, we aim at having a net working capital that is 20% of the last 12 months' sale.
Sorry, could you repeat that? I missed that. What, what percentage?
20 of the last 12 months' sale. That is our aim, but we are quite a bit away from that at the moment. In the way we calculate net working capital is also included, you can say, what we are net in the money or out of the money on the hedging contracts. If we have hedged something and that is in the money, then this is counted as, a net receivable, and therefore it goes into the working capital. That is diluting the figures a bit because you can see our equity has been growing faster than our earnings. The reason you can find on page... What page is it? At the back end of the Q1.
It's, you know, page 14.
Page 14.
Note four.
Note four. Yes. There you can see we are at the moment, DKK 73 million in the money on our hedging contracts.
At the same time last year, we were DKK 96 million out of the money. Overall, it, it is good that we are in the money, but it is destroying our working capital figure.
Got it. Okay.
That's technicality, because in my opinion, this should not be counted as working capital, because it has nothing to do with working capital when you do hedging. That is apparently how the international standards are and how you present things.
I see. I see. Okay. just, I know that through the second half of the year, you're, you're still expecting, growth. Do you expect it to come disproportionately from any one of your target centers, target sectors, healthcare, Cleantech? Is there one in particular that you expect to be stronger?
We say that we... Well, as you can see, we have actually good growth in, we have good growth in a number of our own brands.
Yes.
We expect that to continue. We hope that we can get growth back again in Ergonomics.
Got it.
In the second half of this year. This is on your own products. All your ones are doing extremely well with the two-digit growth, and we expect that can continue. If you take this one, then we have had a period where the windmill customers has been suffering a lot from the disruption in the value chains and in the shipping, transportation, and in the ports and all that. That has destroyed the stability short term. So they-- all our major customers in that industry have had a top figure, top figures last year and also first half of this year. I think that will gradually improve because value chains are getting back to normal, order flows seem to go back to normal.
They're all reporting, good order intake, good order stock, that should lead to that they will start to buy more again. I expect they will buy more in the second half of this year than they've been doing in the first half of this year. You can see the healthcare overall integration is doing better this year than it did in the same period last year. I still think there's a good potential. Healthcare is still a good potential for growth, especially if we can get Ergonomics back on track, that is, I mean, people can delay investment for a while, but not forever. It, it's a matter of time before I think it will be, be back again. To the best of my knowledge, we have not lost customers, so we have not lost projects.
The projects and the customers has just tried to keep the money at home instead of sending them out in investments. In all the mining industries, there are a lot of opportunities.
Got it. Thank you. I see someone else has a question, so I'll come on for it.
Good.
I think I saw somebody come in.
Thank you. Who's next, then?
Okay, maybe, maybe it was a false alarm. Anybody on the call can interrupt me if they'd like. I don't want to hog the call if there's someone that has a question.
You're welcome. You're welcome. Just continue.
You mentioned how the own brands tend to have higher margins than the rest of the business. If you were to generalize, what kind of uplift in margins do you get by selling an own brand product from your standard, from the majority of the rest of what you sell?
We have not disclosed that, but we aim of having two-digit on the bottom line when we sell own brands, and we cannot have that as a subcontractor when we sell subcontracting business.
Yes. Okay. Then, you know, your, your EBITDA margin target range of 16%-19%, again, this is just kind of a general statement. If you were to look across all of the SP Group subsidiaries and say which ones are kind of below that range, above that range, and in that range, what does the distribution look like?
We have been, we have been the first half of this year, more or less all companies being profitable. We have a few small ones, I think two small companies that are making losses. The rest of them are profitable, but some of them at a too low level, and we work on improving them.
Okay.
If you take the whole thing, then we are at 16.8% in EBDA, and then we are at 9.5 in EBIT margin for the 1st half of this year.
Okay. Okay. It's not. It sounds like it's not a barbell situation where there's a lot below and a lot above.
No, no. No, no. We have, we have, we have, we have improved many of the low performers last year, are in better condition and better shape this year than they were last year. Some of the very high performers last year, are in a lower performing situation this year, but not in a low performing, but just lower. Yeah, I mean, you can see it makes a, a huge impact on the overall business when the dark blue area here get down to half of what it was last year, but it is still at a higher level than it was back in 2020.
Got it. Yes.
We have seen the world economy or the world change, slowly coming out of COVID-19, so we can travel again and show our new products in animal housing ventilation. That means we are growing here in this business compared to last year. In the Guide Wires business, all hospitals around the world have opened up again. They are now doing all treatments than just COVID-19. That means they need Guide Wires and to fix people's various operations. The medical packaging is the same story. Industrial standard components, here we see good performance in sport and leisure, in the fishing industry, and also in components that we sell to windmill industry and a number of other industrial components. I still think that can continue to grow also in the second half of this year.
Great.
Overall, we are confident that we will end up the year with a growth. It might be lower than what we expected at the beginning of the year, but during the year, we have also seen central banks increasing interest rates, and that has put, I would say, people are spending their money on paying bills on interest, and then they cannot buy as much in the shops, and that gives the industrial companies less to do.
Yes. Yes. Last question from me, I think, which is the new injection molding factory that you're building in Atlanta. Congratulations on finding a site for it. Could you just help put us in, put that in context of how big that is, you know, relative to kind of your existing factories? Just trying to get a sense of the scale of what that brings to the group.
We have, we have bought a piece of land. We have, we're in the process of making the technical documentation for the authorities. We got a permit to build it. Last week, it was approved by the local authorities. We intend to build a 10,000 sq m production area. That is the as big as the biggest plants we have at the moment within injection molding. We have then found a local company who has rented half of the square meters for a while on a short-term lease, so we will occupy the approximately 5,000 sq m ourselves. We will intend to fill that up with injection molding machines during the first three years.
Got it. You own this facility, or are you going to be leasing it?
We, we have, we, we have been-- we have ended up in a constellation where we own 60%, a local investor owns 40%. The local investor will help us with the construction, with the permits, with all the local work. He owns 40%, we own 60%. We have a purchase option to buy him out at fair value in five years time.
Got it. Okay. Great! Well, I think that is my last question.
Our... We have-- we, this, this is not our preferred solution. Our preferred solution was to go buy existing nice factory or rent a nice factory on a long-term contract, but we've not been successful because we've not been able to find idle new factories in the area. It looks like everybody seems to be very busy there. And the rent we are offered is very high, and we can only make short-term deals, and, and, and if we go and make a lease agreement for five years, and then we have to put in a lot of fixed assets in terms of cooling machines, ventilation, air conditioning, compressed air, and all these installations, it, it is impossible to make a payback within five years.
If we have to be out again in five years' time, then basically many of these investments are lost. Therefore, we need to have something where there's a longer horizon. That's why we have ended up in this, I would say, very capital intensive decision.
Got it. Okay. Well, looking forward to hearing more about it as it gets built.
We have lined up the first customers. We have space for more. If you come across somebody who wants to have an injection molding made locally in the U.S., instead of importing it from Asia or from Europe, please give us a call. We will make a white room, we'll make clean room, and we will also make traditional injection molding.
Got it.
We have customers lined up, and agreements with the first two customers now. We hope we can find another handful of customers within the next 12 months.
Great. All right.
We also think that the Atlanta site gives us opportunities in the longer run, to give service to customers who want to build offshore windmills in the North Atlantic on the U.S. East Coast. That could be a step two or step three.
Got it. All right, well, thank you from my end. I think that's it for me.
Okay. Thank you. Anybody else out there who has a question or a comment? Do we have more to add?
No.
Okay. Thank you very much for listening in.
Thank you.