NV Bekaert SA (EBR:BEKB)
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Apr 30, 2026, 5:35 PM CET
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Earnings Call: H2 2023

Mar 1, 2024

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Bekaert's full year 2023 results presentation. We're absolutely delighted, thank you for joining us. Before I hand over to Yves and Taoufiq, I should do the important thing of taking you through the safe harbor. So just to reiterate, as per previous periods, this presentation may contain forward-looking statements. Such statements reflect the current views of management regarding future events and involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors that may cause actual results to be materially different from any future results, performance, or achievements expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. Bekaert is providing this information in this presentation as of its date and does not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statements contained in it in light of new information, future events, or otherwise.

Bekaert disclaims any liability for statements made or published by third parties and does not undertake any obligation to correct inaccurate data, information, conclusions, or opinions published by third parties in relation to this or any other publication issued by Bekaert. With that important information out of the way, I'd very much like to hand over to Yves and Taoufiq.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Thanks, Guy. So, warm welcome from my side, and good morning, and welcome to Bekaert's 2023 full- year results. I'm also delighted to be joined here by our group CFO, Taoufiq, and together we will take you through the normal package of our annual results. I will give you some first highlights and introduction. Taoufiq will take us through overall financial, but also some perspectives by business, and I will finish with an update on our strategy and the outlook of the business moving forward. So 2023, another year of, good financial performance, strong cash generation. We continue to drive our performance while progressing on our strategic agenda. So let me highlight, some of the highlights for 2023.

First of all, on our growth business and margin improvement business, you will see, based on the explanation of Taoufiq, that across the different businesses, there has been a strong focus on price mix improvement, but more specifically, also some highlights in dedicated BU. The BBRG has really delivered a strong performance in 2023, bringing the EBIT for the business unit above 12%. Finishing the journey of, let's say, profit restoration, pivoting towards growth for the future. In the other segments, some highlights in our construction business, we continue to have good mix improvement in 4D, 5D Dramix, and we are also doubling in the energy transition, our Currento sales.

In that context, and I will talk a little bit later about that as well, we could announce this morning, after signing an MoU last year in December with Toshiba, we signed this year the license agreement to use their technology to enhance our current products in the future and bring a new product to the market in 2026. On top of these growth initiatives and margin improvement, we continue to drive execution on our operations, driving efficiency gains, cost improvements, looking at our footprint. So we rationalize footprint in APAC by closing one plant in China and closing down an ongoing two small plants operations in Steel Wire Solutions in Indonesia and India, part of the portfolio evolution.

In that sense, we concluded in 2023 the disposal of Chile and Peru operation with proceeds of under $36 million. So this good performance delivered or resulted in an EBIT percentage of 9% for 2023, 80 basis points improvement year-on-year, despite the lower volumes and the market uncertain situation we've been in. A very strong, robust free cash flow generation, 40% improvement versus the year before, keeping on a very low leverage on the debt. And we make a proposal on the General Assembly to further increase the dividend progressively year-on-year, with an increase of 9% proposal to the General Assembly at EUR 1.8 per share.

So if you look at the financial dashboard, consolidated sales around EUR 4.3 billion, 14% down versus last year. Taoufiq give you more perspective on that. Main driver is the passing through of the evolution and the returning of the wire rod and raw material price increases in 2022 towards normalized levels, including the energy cost. Despite this, the environment, we delivered a very strong EBITDA of EUR 388 million, and a margin, as I mentioned, of 9%. This valuation has been complemented by a strong continuation of working capital management, resulting in a very good free cash flow of EUR 267 million. Besides the financials performance, we continue to drive our ESG agenda with the different priorities.

One of them is to have our portfolio of our business evolving to more sustainable solutions that we bring to the market, achieving 45% of our portfolio on the categorized under sustainable solution towards a 65% target in 2030, while progressing also on Scope 1, Scope 2 reduction and the net zero impact. So, having said that, I hand over to Taoufiq for some more detailed financial reviews and overview by business unit.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

...Thank you very much, Yves, and thank you for joining our conference call today. So again, despite a year which has been marked by considerable economic headwinds, I would like to share a narrative of resilience and strategic foresight, which is reflected in our annual results. If we rewind to 2022, we delivered a remarkable milestone back then, with revenues which have reached an impressive EUR 5 billion, a figure which has been achieved primarily amid inflationary pressure. This achievement has set a high benchmark as we enter 2023, a year in contrast, which has stress-tested our business with the challenges of input cost deflation. 2023 sales figures stand at EUR 4.3 billion.

While this denotes a 14% contraction compared to last year, it's important to contextualize this within the broader economic condition, and primarily the fact that we have contained our sales volume reduction to a moderate 3.7%, which I think is a proof point of our operational resilience in maintaining volumes despite market fluctuations. The deflation of the input cost prices was the main contributor to our revenue contraction in 2023. It has triggered a reversion to normative pricing following a period of high inflation, and this adjustment represents a 9% decrease in our overall volume.

Yet, I think that it's also crucial to acknowledge that we have successfully retained a large part of the growth that we have achieved in the previous year, with this year's contraction at 13.5%, following a 24% growth in the year 2022. Before we continue, I'd like also to draw your attention to a significant strategic success this year, which mainly lies in our deliberate adjustment in product mix and pricing, which have not only been about navigating challenges, they have also been about creating opportunities and capitalizing on them.

Specifically, with the continuous focus on high-end segments, we have managed to not just defend, but also enhance our market positions, and this approach has resulted in a continued improvement in our price mix by roughly EUR 100 million. This corresponds to a revenue increase of 2%, which is a clear indication of the value and the efficacy of our premium product offerings in the markets. As we look forward, we will continue focusing on refining our product portfolio, enhancing our pricing strategy, with the objective to further consolidate our growth trajectory. I propose now to discuss and move to the detailed performance of each division, and I will turn the focus to rubber reinforcement, where we have seen a year of strategic recalibration and resilience.

Despite a 14.3% sales contraction from the previous year inflation-driven growth, our team has implemented proactive measures, which I do believe brought forth commendable results. The top line has faced headwinds, primarily due to the pass-through of wire rod price decreases, which have accounted for a 9% reduction. However, the silver lining was our intense focus on volume, which not only grew by 1.3% compared to last year, but also showcased our agility to respond to market shift. The volume expansion is particularly notable in Asia, with China experiencing a surge by 20%, and India a steady increase of 3%.

This growth has been instrumental in balancing the regional downturns that we have experienced here and there, especially the contraction that we saw in EMEA, and also some challenges in North America. On pricing and mix, we have navigated through negative price effects with a 2.7 contraction. Yet it's the strategic mix improvement that merit attention. Our sales of high-end, stronger tensile cord, and enhanced recycled content not only highlight our commitment to sustainability, but also signal our dedication as a premium cord manufacturer. The fruition of our effort is perhaps best reflected in the EBITDA margin, which has seen an uplift of 160 basis points to reach 9%, which is again a direct result of our firm focus and cost efficiency and mix improvement.

In a nutshell, 2023 stands for its strong cash delivery as well from the RR division, emphasizing our robust financial management and operational excellence. Looking ahead, the plan is clear for rubber reinforcement. We are ramping up our sales in Vietnam, homologating key accounts, alongside expanding our production capacity in India. And these steps are not just about growth, they're about laying down a strategic foundation for sustainable market expansion in that segment.... Now, turning to Steel Wire Solutions. So there, despite a notable contraction in sales, which is down 18%, there as well our team have adopted a proactive stance on margin improvement, which has yielded a tangible upturn in performance.

The contraction in SWS was twofold, primarily in lower volumes, which accounted for 10% of the decrease, and the impact of the wire rod price decreases, which have added another 10% to the decline. This is in contrast to the previous year, obviously, which showed substantial gains from passed-on wire rod price increases. Nevertheless, our price and mix performance has shown remarkable resilience. They have improved by 4% against last year figure. From a regional perspective, we have seen a variability in performance. EMEA faced a contraction of 14%, predominantly in construction, agriculture, and consumer segments. North America and Latin America were not immune to these pressures, with a decrease of 16% and 7%, primarily in agriculture and construction.

Again, despite these challenges, we have seen an improvement in margin, with EBITDA climbing by 70 basis points to 7.5%, which aligns with our strategic aim to enhance the profitability even in less favorable conditions. The focus for SWS has also been reflected in the strong cash generation, which is underpinned by the excellent working capital management in the business. To further consolidate the performance of the BU, we have undertaken rationalization and rightsizing efforts. The sale of the businesses in Chile and Peru was completed in November. And the closure, we did the closure of two plants in Indonesia and India, which was announced in 2023.

So these decisions, while difficult, are necessary step to ensure our operations are well positioned for the future. Moving on to our Specialty business. So despite downturn from the record highs of 2022, sales have remained robust at EUR 677 million, so 12.3% down from the previous year, yet still marking a significant 15% increase from 2021. In construction and building products, we've returned to a more normalized state following a spike in sales last year. Although sales contracted by 11%, the silver lining lies in the continued progress in pricing and our... and mix.

Our high-end application, such as 4D, 5D Dramix products, now make up 48% of the total volume, which is up from 40% last year. The growth story continues with the strong performance in regional market, in particular in North America and Oceania. We have secured new tunnel projects in India and China, and we have also heightened the adoption for industrial floor, flooring in the U.S. Moving to Fiber Technologies. So despite facing a market impacted by slower demand in certain segments and ongoing semiconductor shortages, we witnessed growth in the segment.

And I think it's important to note that, our ultra-fine wire segment, which, after an initial price erosion, which started in the beginning of 2023, this price erosion has stabilized, thanks to the strategic shifts and, the introduction, of, finer product diameters. Our hydrogen business has made significant headway. It's underscored by long-term supply agreement for our Currento brand, and, the initiation, of landmark project in China with a major electricity generation company. We have announced yesterday our partnership with Toshiba to expand into membrane electrode, which also marks, a strategic step into the value chain, even as we navigate the short-term impact of the startup costs, on margin.

However, in this business unit, everything has not been without its challenges, and the challenges are primarily with combustion technologies and our hose and conveyor belt. So in combustion technologies, the segment did face a 35% sales decrease, which has been influenced by the lower demand and the regulatory shifts in EMEA. Nonetheless, we have managed to offset some of these effects with a strategic price increase and shifting the burner production to more cost-effective regions, like Romania. In hose and conveyor belt, we have also observed a market slowdown, but we have also seen our price increases balancing or counterbalancing the cost inflation, which also showcases our ability to adapt pricing strategies to maintain margin.

So indeed, 2023 for Specialty business has presented a complex landscape. However, we are proud of the remarkable successes in construction, the ramp-up of our hydrogen businesses, which are counterbalancing some of the challenges that we had to deal with in other segments. Now, if we examine the performance of BBRG, and there I think that we find a narrative of robust strategic execution and remarkable resilience despite a landscape of varying demands. So BBRG has delivered an impressive performance, particularly in its pricing and product mix, which has led to a significant margin improvement. In terms of sales, BBRG has shown stability with the positive effect of pricing and mix adjustment contributing to a 10% decrease. On the other hand, volumes have contracted by 6.6%.

Drilling down into volumes, so ropes saw 8% contraction with the trigger, which is mainly related to the softer demand from construction in China. Nevertheless, the demand in critical end markets like mining, oil and gas have robustly compensated for the declines. So the strategic focus in the business remains the refinement of the pricing approach, which is generating very good upsides with an average sales price per ton, which is climbing by 8% during 2023. So despite the lower volumes, BBRG has not only achieved sales growth, but it has also significantly expanded its margin to a record high of 12.3% in 2023.

And again, it's a business which just a couple of years was still in a profit restoration mode. And I think that we can say with this level of profitability so far that this phase is behind us. On the operational front, we have made some significant adjustments, and we have entered into some strategic partnerships that position us for future growth. So we have closed a plant in Germany, which was completed in 2023. It allows us to align efficiency and right-sizing with our right-sizing goals. And we are in parallel ramping up capacity for Murfor to meet our anticipated demand.

Last point about BBRG: the business has maintained high order book levels throughout the year, which also a demonstration of the sustained market demands and confidence in our product. That's for the business unit. If we move back to Bekaert and I will start with the EBIT build-up. The bridge, I think that beyond the figure illustrates the financial levers of our performance over the past year. I think that it's a good way to showcase our reduced dependence on cyclical factors and a shift towards a more stable and predictable business model. The key highlight is related to the pricing and mix which has delivered a significant upside of EUR 92 million.

It's evident that our discipline in pricing and the strategic refinement of our product mix have not only been maintained, but have become a cornerstone of our financial strength. So this has been crucial as well in offsetting the operational deleverage, which has been caused by the decrease in the volume. Looking at the quantums for the EBIT specifically, so for the fiscal year 2023, we stand at EUR 388 million. Although this reflects a 5% drop versus last year in absolute terms, the more telling figure is our EBIT margin on sales, which has increased to 9%. So this is up 80 basis points from the previous year, which is, again, a very good performance.

So as we move forward, these principles that I have described will continue to guide our financial strategy. It will allow us to ensure that Bekaert remains robust, resilient, and on a trajectory of sustainable growth. Some further details about the P&L, which again, is another proof point of our shift towards a more stable and predictable business model, with a reduction of our historical and past dependence on cyclical market performance. So I already mentioned, touched on, the EBIT at 9%. So if you look at the exceptional items this year, they were largely related to the strategic decisions, such as plant closures in China, the closures of the plants in Indonesia, the BBRG closures in Germany, as well.

This is a continuing exercise to streamline our operation for enhanced efficiency. Our interest costs have remained broadly stable, which is reflecting our disciplined financial management. Obviously, we have the luxury of having most of our debt at fixed rate, and we are not pressured by the rate evolution. The tax rate has improved, so it's dropping to 23%. The company earnings per share have also seen a boost, further enhanced by the reduction in the share count from the share buyback program. Looking ahead, we are confident in our financial strategies, our operational adjustments, and the overall direction of the company. Now, if we move to the balance sheet and the working capital, so we have continued to prioritize efficiency and financial oversight.

While the working capital as a percentage of sales shows a marginal increase to 15.2%, versus the figure of last year, this figure should be considered in the context of the inflated sales of 2022, which was, as you all know, due to the high input costs and the exceptionally low working capital position at the start of the year. In absolute terms, our inventories are reducing by EUR 178 million. Our inventory returns are down by 15 days to 74 days. Our receivables are roughly stable at 74 days, which is a good performance given the nature of our businesses, and same level of stability for our payables.

So overall, our cash conversion cycles have shortened, so it's illustrating, as well our strong commitment to liquidity and the agility, of our, business. So as we move forward, we will continue focusing on working capital. It's really at the heart, of what, we will be doing, so working capital management is a cornerstone, of our, financial strategy. Obviously, it's, allowing us to remain nimble and prepared to capitalize, on growth opportunities as they arise. In terms of cash flow generation, we've seen, a truly commendable year with both operational cash and free cash flow. Operational cash, has saw an increase, a rise to EUR 440 million. That's a, a 29% increase compared to, the previous year.

This has been underpinned by the improved working capital management and the EBIT, better EBIT margin, even in the backdrop of the continued investment to support future growth, mainly through CapEx, which has increased by EUR 25 million year-on-year. And our free cash flow surged by an outstanding 40%. So overall, very robust free cash flow generation, fruit of all the efforts and focus that we have been doing and putting on it from the operational and financial standpoint. We have a very solid cash position at EUR 632 million. We have reimbursed EUR 190 million of the Schuldschein loan , plus an additional EUR 54 million of an interest-bearing debt.

So, some quite significant level of outflows during the year on top of the dividends share buyback. And despite all that, we have a very comfortable level of cash on hand. If we move to the next page. So, as we look to our commitment to shareholder returns, it's clear that Bekaert has consistently prioritized strategic capital allocation in order to balance the growth and innovation within the business with a strong shareholder return. So in the past two years alone, we have returned EUR 400 million to shareholders.

So this includes two share buyback programs, which are totaling approximately EUR 240 million, and a significant increase in dividends, up by 50% in 2022, and an additional 10% as announced for 2022. So we have demonstrated that we can crystallize an operational resilience. We have fortified our balance sheet. We have enhanced our cash generation capabilities. And shareholder returns are the fruit of the successful strategic plan, which has been executed over the years. So building on this solid progress that we have made, the management and the board have decided that now it's the opportune moment to accelerate our transformation agenda. This acceleration will enable us to seize growth opportunities that have become increasingly apparent.

And to this end, we will be prioritizing investment in our business, both organic and through strategic acquisitions over the next 12-24 months. So as a consequence, we have resolved to pause the share buyback program. This decision is rooted in a strategic vision to enhance Bekaert long-term growth and value creation potential. However, we still remain very committed to growing shareholder returns, and our focus on that remains unwavering. And to reflect this, the board has approved a gross dividend of EUR 1.80 per share that will be approved or confirmed during the upcoming annual general meeting in May 2024. And at 1.80, this will represent roughly a 10% increase versus the previous year.

So a progressive dividend policy, which also underscores, our confidence in the company direction, and our dedication to deliver shareholder value. We stand firm in our belief that the strategic decisions we make today will pave the way for a prosperous tomorrow for our shareholders and, and for Bekaert. So with that, I will pause here and pass it back to you.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Thanks, Taoufiq. So let's pivot to give you some perspective on where we are in the journey. And of course, on one hand, satisfied with the performance we are delivering on the short term, while recognizing that still a lot of hard work to be done to drive our valuation agenda on the long term. I want to repeat there that we have in our, let's say, this year, the for key stakeholders is how do we further, let's say, support our customer in the different end markets where we are active?

As you know, Bekaert has been a very loyal and innovative supplier for many industries, and we want to continue to take our responsibility to be, show leadership in these end markets and support the industries in the journey ahead. Secondly, in terms of employees, very dedicated workforce around the world now engaged in the journey of moving forward. Of course, our shareholders, as we discussed, and Taoufiq mentioned to it, and then, of course, the responsibility we have to our society on many aspects of the ESG. So if we have a look, our strategy remains the same.

I think we can with confidence saying that the performance we demonstrated last couple of years is stable and is at a good level, which allows us to accelerate on the transformation and the growth journey. We've been taking steps already in the last couple of years on this transform and growth, but it's clearly our confidence level is a commitment from the management and the board, and we are really happy with the support of the board to accelerate that transformation and that growth platform. So, a couple of words on the performance. I think all clear for you. We reviewed during the Capital Markets Day together, but a confirmation extra data point in 2023 with a 9% EBIT and improvement from 2019, from 5.6.

Not only overall, but also the composition, the quality of our performance, where the core businesses improve their profitability, but, and important that the growth platforms make up 40% of the profit today, and that will further increase and enhance to more at par at 50%, 60% over time. From an operational point of view, we continue to look at our portfolio in terms of manufacturing, rationalization, leveraging our procurement capabilities globally, where we delivered in 2023 EUR 30 million saving on top of, let's say, market pricing. And we see further opportunities moving forward, as well as in operational excellence, where we had a more focus on everything which is about maintenance, and we will continue.

From a performance and mix, on the four BUs, I will not go into detail because I think Taoufiq mentioned some of them and some additional highlights. In the rubber reinforcement, serving the tire industry, going to this higher tensile strength cord is driven also by the evolution of electric vehicles. And then on top, as mentioned, recycling becoming an important topic, and we are a leader there to ensure recycled steel is used in the tire cord, and that needs to increase over the upcoming years. In the Steel Wire Solutions, doing the portfolio review continuously, but also growing in new platforms like armoring wire for transmission, which is dedicated focus for the moment in energy utilities in the U.S.

But also, launching or scaling up new products like asphalt and the copper wire coated with PEEK on, for the stator in the automotive, where we have increased interest on, on our products for the future. Specialty business, as mentioned, by, by Taoufiq, so we're not content. And then BBRG, also expanding capacity, in, in North America for growth and then ramping up capacity for Armofor, while also moving in all these businesses also to more services and solution business, and happy to see the collaboration with, ABB on monitoring of ropes in certain applications. So let me give you some highlights on, on how we want to proceed and what is the focus, for 2024. First of all, is delivering on our commitments for, for 2024.

Keep on serving the customers, keep on having the financial returns, and keep on improving our operations. From a strategic point of view, we want to strengthen the clarity on where we play. Let me repeat, because I think it has been mentioned before, is growing from the core, focusing on large and growing end markets. I will repeat them in a minute, but also see how we can expand in regions around the world, where we see still potential as backups to grow from a regional perspective. In the markets that we've chosen, we want to make sure we are very clear on our competitive position.

We will reinforce the brands, the product brands, the solution brands. I will share them with you in a minute, and strengthen the business model to make sure that this valuation agenda on the long term is sustainable. We want to further leverage some of the superpowers that Bekaert has, leveraging global scale and our technology leadership, and really in this end markets, having leadership position, being number one and two in the segments we play in. Of course, we are realistic, humble in the sense that we have strong capabilities, but we want to strengthen them further because we have a higher ambition level moving forward. And then also from a reporting model, the high performance organization, we have the entrepreneurship across our globe, but also in different BUs.

Then, of course, ensuring we have the right capital allocation to all our shareholders. We want to, of course, continue to perform, strong performance. Let me repeat quickly the four focus markets. So first of all, of course, obvious, the tire reinforcement, which is EUR 7 billion market. We talk about roughly EUR 1.8 billion-EUR 2 billion revenue in that market, being the market leader. The trends of electrification and circularity, we, as a market leader, have the duty, but also have this opportunity to enhance over time our offering in that segment. Second one, the growing segment, energy transition. So for the segments that we are focusing on, it's a EUR 7 billion market driven by the need for renewable energy. We have some growth platforms there.

We have some platforms that we want to pivot to new businesses, so very excited about that, ecosystem on the advanced lifting and mooring, leveraging our BBRG legacy, we have potential for growth, also driven by decarbonization. Also, there it plays a role, but also urbanization, where everything which it has to do with our elevators, elevator belt cords, gives opportunity for further growth. And then the last is the play in construction, more specifically on the niche segment for fiber reinforcement and conversion from steel and rebar. We think there's a EUR 2 billion market there where we play, where we see still opportunity, leverage, and supported by sustainability, but also innovation. So, still very much excited about these end markets, where we want to be part of the ecosystem.

Let us share a little bit further. We see, let's say, clarity on our portfolio of businesses, both externally to our customers, but also to the market and internally. We have, of course, some of the established brands in tire reinforcement, the Bekaert tire cord and bead wire. In energy transition, the emerging brand of Currento, which of course, with also the Toshiba license and the extent of our product range in the future, will become an important brand. Bridon, very strong brand, very well recognized in the market, in the different segments we play in, within the advanced lifting and mooring segment, and then our Dramix in the construction decarbonization. We are working on a portfolio of smaller but upcoming brands. That can be products, but can also be service and solutions.

So in rubber reinforcement, we are looking at very dedicated products for the energy vehicles or for recycling steel or for recycling of tire cord for retreaded tires. In the energy transition we have with Armofor for asphalt, those for Basinox. And then in advanced lifting and mooring with the MoorLine, which is the brand for offshore mooring with synthetic ropes, where we're also expanding our offering and our lineup with investment in other companies. The Vision, the monitoring of the rope solution and FlexSteel. And then also in construction, we have growing brands like SigmaSlab , which is a combination of steel reinforcement and fiber reinforcement on advanced high floorings.

But also Falconix, which is our design offices, which are providing engineering and consulting services to the construction industry for switching from traditional reinforcement to our fiber reinforcement. So really excited to see these brands evolving, and you will hear more about it in the future. So let us wrap up the results 2023. So I think overall, a resilient financial performance despite the weaker market situation. So putting us in a good position moving forward and driving all the improvements, I will not repeat them. And let me pivot then to the outlook for 2024. So we all know the economic uncertain situations remain, geopolitical situation, but we can say that the trading started well in our main platforms in the first month of the year for different business units.

For 2024, we expect modest sales growth on the top line and at least stabilizing the margin and further improving the margin. We reconfirm our confidence in the midterm guidance given at the Capital Market Day in December in London, where from a top-line growth at the mid-term, we are targeting 5% growth. As mentioned at that moment, this growth platform, we are investing, we are scaling. Some of them, of course, will not be a straight line to the top. So in the upcoming two years, that's why we said 2024, we see a moderate growth across the portfolio, but certainly, these growth platforms will grow above GDP and on the long term, overall, 5% growth.

Confirming for 2026, the EBITDA target for more than 10%, with a return on capital of 20%, and then also on a sustainable solution, 50% of our portfolio. Thanks for listening to the background and more perspective, and handing over to Guy for the Q&A.

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Very good. Thank you, Yves. And we'll now move to Q&A, and I see a number of hands that are already up. Chase at Kempen, I think you were the first, so please go ahead.

Chase Coughlan
Equity Research Analyst, Kempen

Yeah, thank you, Guy. Good morning, all, and thank you for taking my questions. I have three, and I'll take them one at a time, if that's okay. Starting on the outlook, so for 2024, you mentioned here that you expect some modest sales growth. I think in the last trading update, based on the outlook discussion, it sounded like the first half of the year would still be quite subdued, similar to the second half that we saw in 2023. You also mentioned in the press release that trading is still quite strong in the majority of businesses, and that's going quite well so far. Do you have any sort of update on yeah, the timing of this growth throughout 2024, and what sort of developments you're seeing there?

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Yeah. So we're confirming what we have said some month ago in terms of top line. So we will still be dealing with an environment which is overall subdued. I mean, there's some different dynamics, obviously, from one region to the other. So we will continue seeing the same pace of improvement for our businesses in China. So I mean, there's a recovery which is happening, albeit a bit at a lower pace than what most of the people were expecting, but the positive trend will remain. Europe, for the foreseeable future, we don't see some major improvements. Overall, it will kind of stabilize, and we're looking forward to see what will happen in the second half. But if you consolidate all these different dynamics, expectation.

... we don't have great expectations when it comes to the top line for 2024, and we're aiming at an environment which would be roughly flat or moderately growing. The big change, and why we're saying that the trading environment has started well, is mainly related to the continuation of some of the dynamics, positive dynamics that we have seen in 2023 regarding the pricing and mix. So there we do see a positive momentum, which is continuing and further consolidating. And we do see this trend to continue throughout the balance of the year, hopefully.

Chase Coughlan
Equity Research Analyst, Kempen

Okay. Yeah, thank you. That's very clear. Then secondly, yeah, more on capital allocation. So obviously, you have a very strong balance sheet at the moment, 0.5 leverage, EUR 700+ million in cash. And I think even in the presentation now, you mentioned that you have the ability to self-fund shareholder returns. But I'm just curious as to, yeah, what the decision was behind, yeah, basically not continuing another share buyback program, even if it's a slightly smaller one, given that you clearly have the balance sheet for it. And then maybe as a short follow-up on that, you do also mention, obviously, there are increasingly apparent opportunities for inorganic or organic growth. And maybe if you could elaborate a little bit more on what those apparent opportunities are as well. Thank you.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Yeah. As you said, rightly, I mean, it's... it was relatively moderate share buyback, so we did see the benefit of it. We did it for a couple of years. So now we want to drive value using other levers. I think that we are gaining confidence in our ability to drive value through transformation. So, I mean, we have demonstrated that we're very prudent in the way we allocate cash inorganically. We continue to be prudent, but we do see a momentum that we want to capture in terms of accelerating the transformation of the company and driving value through other levers. So we want to move from this perspective that we were where our focus or the focus from the investors community was on our capital allocation.

We want to move to a solid yield company. And in order to do that, I mean, we want to accelerate our growth and accelerate the delivery of the dividends and the growth of the dividends that we want to do. It's clearly our ambition, and that's how we want to approach it.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Yeah, if I can add, on Chase, from a growth perspective, we are clear about our, the midterm ambition to grow based on an enforced portfolio. And so, as mentioned by Taoufiq, we think it's the right time to accelerate that. We've of course been looking at, first of all, the organic growth, and we continue to do that accelerate. Also, the inorganic with more bolt-on acquisitions. But we keep on being very diligent on the reviews and targeting the right ones. And as you know, this, the timing of these type of deals is not always fully in control, but it's clear that this is a priority for us moving forward, the upcoming 12-13 months.

Chase Coughlan
Equity Research Analyst, Kempen

Okay, great. And then maybe my final question, just quickly. I think also with the CMD, you outlined that, there would be some further divestments, or that divestments were part of the broader, growth strategy and, yeah, portfolio recomposition strategy. I think at the time of the CMD, there wasn't anything, yeah, concrete in the pipeline, and I'm just curious if there's any updates on that, if you have, yeah, any deals that you're working on that you can disclose.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

So it remains the same. We do active portfolio review continuously, both on the invest as well on the divestments, and for the moment, there's nothing concrete cooking. But,

Chase Coughlan
Equity Research Analyst, Kempen

Yeah

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

... of course, we continue to look at the opportunities to market the right timing as well. So it's a priority for us, but there's no sense of urgency.

Chase Coughlan
Equity Research Analyst, Kempen

Great.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

That's how we look at the moment. Yeah.

Chase Coughlan
Equity Research Analyst, Kempen

Great. Well, thank you very much, gentlemen. I'll jump back in queue.

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Thanks, Chase. Frank Claassen, I think you're next. Please go ahead.

Frank Claassen
Senior Equity Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Yes. Good morning, all. A few questions. I'll also ask them one by one. First of all, on the wire rod, what is your, let's say, assumption, baked into your guidance for wire rod, and what can we expect for the FIFO adjustments? Are there still going to be FIFO adjustments in 2024?

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Well, the assumption that we took in the guideline was that we will have a moderate upward movement throughout 2024. So no major change expected. So that's the expectation, to answer your first question.

Frank Claassen
Senior Equity Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Okay.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

I guess we'll have a follow-up on that.

Frank Claassen
Senior Equity Analyst, Degroof Petercam

And indeed, because your model sales growth, what does it basically mean for volume growth and pricing? You, I think you said in the previous, Q&A answer that you expect flattish volumes and a bit of pricing. Is that the way to look at the model sales growth for 2024?

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Well, price, pricing and mix, pricing and mix will be improving, yeah.

Frank Claassen
Senior Equity Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Yeah. And volumes indeed flattish. That,

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah overall, yes, plus some small growth, and it's different by business. So there are businesses in our portfolio which grow with 5%-7%, correct? There is the hydrogen business which will double, perhaps this previous year. But for now, these are in relative, still in our portfolio, a relative part, correct? So then, why the overall guidance we give is the overall, but there are pockets of more growth than the GDP growth, yeah.

Frank Claassen
Senior Equity Analyst, Degroof Petercam

... Okay, clear. And then on working capital, is this, this 15% of revenues, a number where you feel comfortable with going forward, or is there room for more improvement? What is your-

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Well, I mean, yeah. Historically, we have operated between 13.5% and 16%, so that's basically the bandwidth. So, at 15%, I think that we have some opportunities to generate some improvements, definitely, and we will be working hard on it. I mean, you saw that there are some significant improvements in terms of the inventory turns, so we need to look at what is the additional potential we can drive from the receivables to from the payables to some extent. So yes, there is some potential to further improve.

Frank Claassen
Senior Equity Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Okay, that sounds good. And then my final question on China, our China. Yeah, you improved quite a bit this year, last year. How is the, let's say, environment there competitively? Do you still see price pressure, or are you gaining back market share? What are the dynamics in the Chinese rubber reinforcement market?

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

So overall, what we see is that there is some last couple of months, some recovery in the market demand. And combined with on our side, as you mentioned—as you know, we closed one site. That means we consolidated our capacity, maximized the capacity in the plants we have, focusing there mainly on mix improvement. China remains a competitive environment as all of us know, so our improvement are really driven by really focusing on the businesses that are juicy, correct, where the delivery is to pay. Plus, also operationally, we continue to look at how can we improve our competitiveness.

I think we have a stable environment in China protecting our business, and of course, if the market environment is positive to a certain extent, we can leverage that, but we will be also limited to the capacity we have.

Frank Claassen
Senior Equity Analyst, Degroof Petercam

Okay, clear. Thank you very much.

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Thank you, Frank. Alexander, you're next in the queue. Please, you go ahead.

Alexander Craeymeersch
Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Morning, Kepler Cheuvreux, Alexander Craeymeersch from Kepler Cheuvreux here. Just to continue on the outlook. So you sound confident in the 5% midterm sales growth, which you provided at the CMD last year, but you aim for 1%-2% growth in 2024, if I'm correctly interpreting the modest sales growth comment. So this implies that you expect significantly higher growth in 2025 and 2026, but what's your level of visibility and confidence there, and how does it... how much does it depend on the macro environment? And then second question would be on the margins outlook. So you're clearly growing into the more sustainable solutions. You aim for that 50%. It implies a better mix.

You also mentioned an EBIT, EBIT margin underlying of 10% by 2026, highlighting that different mix. So but in 2024, even though you expect that mix to continue to improve, you aim for flat margins, and I just wonder how we square this, or is that flat margin just a conservative assumption? Thank you for that.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Yeah. So I will take the first one and perhaps you the second one, Taoufiq. So on the market growth side, yeah, so the background of in the transformation that we are selling the midterm target of 5% is when all these growth platforms start to become more sizable and more kicking in. And of course, the portfolio growth platforms, and we know due to, let's say, our projects will go in offshore wind, in ele- hydrogen or even in other growth platforms, there can be some fluctuations. So on the midterm, we are confident on that one. On the short term, there could be growth driven by the market environment, yeah?

But the first one is our long-term priority is the growth coming from new products, new services, new markets. So that's in our own hand, in our own control. And then on top, you have, of course, the opportunity of the overall market evolution. So that's the two factors that you need to look at.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Yeah.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Yeah.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Now, so again, I think that what is important to notice is that what will be driving this growth is a combination of both macro and the combination of our product portfolio and how fast we're able to drive the mix shift. So, if we are able to accelerate the growth in our growth platform, we will have more higher level to leverage ability to drive higher level of margins, and this is what we're aiming at. So, most of these applications, a lot of them are in ramp-up phase, so it's very difficult to give high level of certainty on how fast we can do it.

That's why, I mean, for the moment, we see the results, we see the performance, and it's really our ability to sustain the ramp-up at the right pace, which will drive this improvement in gross margin and the 5% top line that we were referring to. Now, on your question regarding the potential conservatism around the margins for 2024. So again, we are at the beginning of the year. We clearly stated that we're still dealing with the very volatile markets. I mean, we're still, unfortunately, still dependent on some input cost fluctuation, variation, and so on. I mean, the steel price being one of them. So we want to still remain cautious, as I explained earlier to Frank.

We took the assumption that the wire rod will not move dramatically, but we don't know how things might evolve. I mean, regardless and independently of what macro is saying, you can have, movements within the steel manufacturers who decide to reduce production and capacity, which can have an impact on the pricing, or they can expand, capacity and produce more, and therefore drive the prices downwards. We don't know what will happen. So that's why, for the moment, we are cautious. I mean, we will be providing, regular updates on how we see macro evolving, but for the moment, we are on a cautious mode as far as, the performance for 2024 is concerned.

Alexander Craeymeersch
Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay, thank you. Maybe just as a small follow-up, if maybe I'm gonna be a bit naughty and try to pinpoint you on a number, but you know, imagine that the economy stays as it is, in the sense that it's on track. Imagining that steel prices don't fluctuate that much, would EUR 400 million in underlying EBIT be out of the question? Thank you for that.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Well, I think that, as we said, it, if we assume top line flat, and margins at least at the level where we are, we should be aiming at EUR 390 million. Then, I mean, we are also working on lot of self-help measures, footprint optimization plan, restructuring here and there. So all this can potentially, if executed, deliver the additional EUR 10 million, which can take us to the EUR 400 million that you mentioned. So simple answer, no, it's not out of questions, but it relies on a couple of uncertain components where the execution is still to be delivered.

Alexander Craeymeersch
Equity Research Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Okay, thank you for that, and congrats on the nice results.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Thanks. Thank you.

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Thank you, Alexander. Martijn, you put your hand down but are on screen, so I'm presuming you've still got a question. So, over to you, please.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Yes, I do. Thank you, Guy. I just wanted to come back on that acceleration of the strategy. I haven't seen an upgrade in the CapEx. You mentioned still M&A, sensible bolt-on, but then I don't understand the conservatism around SBBs, apart from the liquidity side of the equation. Because if you do a calculation on 2024, let's say the same EBIT, higher CapEx, maybe a bit of improvement on the working capital, we just had Taoufiq to say that, you're gonna end up with a net debt EBITDA of 0.3x, and that includes the higher dividend on the EUR 180 million. If you do acquisitions of EUR 250 million cash out, that net debt EBITDA moves to 0.8x.

If you do EUR 500 million of cash out of investments in via M&A, you get to EUR 1.2 billion, and EUR 1.2 billion is still very solid. So quite frankly, I don't really understand how you can say that you're accelerating the strategy but you're not increasing CapEx. i.e., are you saying that you are now looking for medium-sized and larger acquisitions? Because otherwise, I can't understand the decision to postpone the SBB. That would be my first question.

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Go ahead.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

So, the calculation that you have done, Martin, is indeed assuming a flat guidance in terms of CapEx, the no bolt-on, no major acquisition, and so on. So what we can confirm at this stage, I mean, we referred to an acceleration of the transformation. So what it means in practical terms is that we want to accelerate the number of this bolt-on and tactical and strategic acquisitions that we are referring to. We do see a right momentum to do it. Many of our growth markets and markets where we want to invest are giving us the proof point that we're taking the right decision. So we don't want during the next 12-24 months to delay further the ability to find the right catalysts for them to grow.

So that is what is driving this decision to pause the share buybacks for the time being. CapEx at EUR 250 million, so everything being equal, yes. But if we do see an acceleration, if the confirmation and the signature on the long-term supply agreement for Currento, for instance, are confirmed, we might need potentially to speed up the ramp-up to have more capacity than what we initially expected. And this is the reason why we're saying we want to pause, and we have carefully chose the word "pause." It's because we are in a momentum, where we see a higher value generation potential in organic slash organic opportunities, and this is what is driving our decision. All your calculation are right.

We have the right level of cash to do all of that. But at the same time, we want to stress test our ability to drive higher level of returns for the shareholders, other than just doing share buybacks.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

If I can add and give you some strategic perspective, Martin, on that one, because as you mentioned, your calculation is right. There's a couple of verticals we really want to double down on. And let me repeat, an energy transition, is it in hydrogen? Is it in heat pumps? Is it in other, let's say, opportunities that are out there in this energy transition? Is it in lifting and mooring with offshore wind? Is it in construction and so on? And even in the tire reinforcement, we are looking at what is the next cycle. So these are four verticals. I call it it's four pistons, correct, that we want to double down on.

And if you look at what's going to happen in the world in the upcoming years from now to 2030, is that some of these platforms are critical scaling up 27, 28, 29, 2030. Correct? So it's... There's also a discussion with the board and with the management team. There is a window of opportunity in the targeted markets where we want to potentially act to expand our capabilities. Is it with bolt-on M&As? Is it with technology? And it, it's in that context here, it's the same. We think that this is the right moment... And as mentioned by Taoufiq, we paused the programs, keeping it also flexible, and but we want to double down now on the next 12 to 24 months on exploring this.

If you have a couple of them, even if they are EUR 200 million, EUR 300 million, since we are focused on a couple of targeted markets, that's how we look at it.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Got it. Thank you. My, my second question is, with regards to the, the margins in 2023. You have the, the headwind from FIFO, but you also have, a bit of tailwind from hanging on to higher prices while the wire, wire rod price declined. It's a question for, for Taoufiq, I guess. Is the net of those two positive or negative in 2023?

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Well, I mean, to put it very simply, so wire rod prices throughout 2023 has decreased, so the mathematical calculation leads to a negative inventory valuation for 2023. But, I mean, you do see that the net of it in terms of pricing and mix, because again, we want to insist on that. I mean, just looking at FIFO, at the exclusion of the impact that it has in terms of pricing, is the wrong way of approaching it. So, I mean, you translate the inventory prices in your pricing to the end customers. So the net has been positive when you combined it with the efforts that we have done in pricing. Inventory valuation has been negative in 2023.

I did state that what we see for 2024 is a flattish, slightly improving inventory prices. So, for the moment, and for the short term, we are not expecting negative coming out of it, hence comforting our pricing performance, provided we continue with our strategy to push the prices up. What will further benefit to us is that, I mean, what we're selling now are based on inventories that we have acquired three to four months ago in a phase where prices were falling down. So we have cheap inventories for the next three months that will benefit from an environment where prices are stabilizing or slightly improving.

This should be beneficial in terms of cost of goods sold for the production that we will be putting on in the market in the next three to four months.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

I appreciate your elaboration, but is there really not a sense that you can give? Is it because that was really the question, is in the net, is it negative or positive? Because I think the net between those price mix and the FIFO is actually negative, which means that underlying, you did even slightly better.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Well, I mean, again, for us, we have been doing indeed better because we have been able to push prices at a higher level than the effects that we have seen in terms of core component acquisition price. So the net has been positive. So if you look at the EUR 92 million-

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Okay

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

... that we have in the bridge, you strip out the mix effect from it, you keep only the pricing, which is a combination of inventory valuation and fuel pricing effects, you will get to a positive.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Okay. Got it. And my third question is, you've done quite a bit on the restructuring front, in RR in China, in SWS, in Indonesia, India. You mentioned in the presentation that there will be, from operational excellence, another EUR 10 million. Is that EUR 10 million the full effect of all these restructurings from 2023, or is that just a part of it? In other words, can you give us a bit more color on the total effect or savings in 2024 from the 2023 restructuring measures?

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

This one will be a bit difficult to calculate and to tell you how much it's driving in terms of, improvement impact in the margin, but we can reasonably assume that the saving in terms of, recurring cost out of this restructuring should roughly equate, EUR 10-15 million. That would be the recurring benefit out of it that we will see in the coming year.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Mm-hmm.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

So obviously, again, we just need to be careful with some of the implications and how we read some of these results. Because if you look at the closures that we did in SWS, so these are small plants, which are not really material in the overall SWS. They represent 4% of the total sales, so we need to be careful to correctly assess this the impacts in terms of recurring savings.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Okay. Just, just one follow-up on that one then. EUR 10-15 million comes up on top of the EUR 10 million that you mentioned in the operational excellence slide in the presentation?

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Well, the operational excellence, this is self-help measures to-generated through, process improvement, efficiency-

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Right

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

... automation and things like that. So these are separate improvements that-

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Got it

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

... we are aiming at.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

... Clear. And then my final one, a simple one. Combustion, was it loss-making at the EBIT level or, profit-making?

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

No, no, it's profit-making. So we all know the situation in terms of policy changing and certainly the economy. You know, in the outlook of that business now, we proactively or reacted very quickly. So, we moved some of our production from the Netherlands further to Romania-

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Mm-hmm

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

... and right-sized the organization. So BCT ended in the profit figure for 2023, despite a significant loss in the top line. Yeah.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

All right.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Also, with 2024, we took the assumptions on the growth on the sales in the moderate way, as well as the profit levels to continue to be in the positive.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

All right. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Thank you, Martijn. Over to you, please, Wim.

Wim Hoste
Equity Research Analyst, KBC Securities

Thank you. Good morning also from my side. Couple of questions also, and I also ask them one by one, I think that's easier. First would be on Dramix. I think the press release mentions some orders in tunneling in Asia Pacific, also industrial flooring projects in the U.S. So the question is: How big is the order book for 2024, and what kind of momentum do you expect to unfold, given that the building markets are not in great shape? So that's the first question.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Good question. So, first of all, we remain positive on the growth, and then there's also the segments that certainly in number of projects that we are doing, we have a growth plan, and we see that as well. Now, in terms of order book, it's an interesting question because it's... The way that business works is basically how you're prospecting. Yeah? There's not a lot of long-term firm orders, but once you're prospecting into a project, like a tunnel, whatever, they release it by batch and so on. So once you're prospecting, it gives you pretty good confidence on the outlook of the growth, but it's not firm orders. But we remain positive.

I think what we learned with our Dramix business, certainly since couple of years, where we are really tailoring the offering to the sub-segments, flooring, tunneling, we are now working on infrastructure and renovation. So tailoring very much the offering and also in all the markets, having people dedicated to these segments. We see that when we convert and win businesses, it's like a small snowball effect, right? You get recurring businesses, and this is the case in flooring in the U.S. for battery factories, automotive factories, but also in India, where it took us long to get one tunnel, and also in China. So these are important proof points for us, and that will continue to drive the growth. As we said, it's clearly the growth platforms for us at Dramix.

Wim Hoste
Equity Research Analyst, KBC Securities

Okay, clear. Then a question would be on RR and recycled steel content that you're increasingly putting. Can you maybe elaborate a little bit on the ambitions you have with recycled steel? And also, yeah, what does growth of that do to your margin? Is it margin enhancing?

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Yeah.

Wim Hoste
Equity Research Analyst, KBC Securities

Yeah, can you maybe elaborate a little bit on that as well?

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Yeah. Yeah, good, good point, and, and, I don't think as an industry we have the full answer there, but, but I can confirm as a leader that we will, let's say, emphasize our role in there. And so the tire industry, in terms of the sustainability targets, last couple of years, you know that I'm coming from that industry, has defined, let's say, recycled steel as one of the, the measures, to come more to a circular economy for tires and, and recycled content. The, the challenge in, in the industry is that basically recycled steel today is, is almost 100% recycled, correct, and used in different industries. So that's one data point.

And secondly, in terms of wire rod capabilities and our suppliers, correct, some are more advanced than others to increase the ratio of recycled steel in their products. And then, of course, flowing through to our wire rod and our customers. So a couple of data points. One is we are making sure, and that's why we also made the releases, that we are certified in the control on how the flow of recycled steel into wire rod, into our products, to the end product, that this flow is basically fully traceable and audible. And then the increase of that amount of recycled steel still to be fully worked out with the supplier base, yeah.

On the other hand, we already have nice ratios of recycled steel in our current offering, a little bit higher in the bead wire than in the tire, the steel cord, and we will keep on enhancing that. Now, that should be a differentiating factor, correct? So your question on pricing and value, that certainly is one of the elements. Now, you know, the price competition in RR versus some of our competitive players, so it's certainly a lever that we want to double down on and be leading in.

Wim Hoste
Equity Research Analyst, KBC Securities

Mm-hmm. Okay, clear. Then the last question from my side, it's a small housekeeping question, but on page 3 of the press release, there is a phrase mentioning that there is a capitalization of expenditure on development activities that is now being done for about EUR 7 million due to the stage of certain development projects. Can you maybe elaborate what kind of milestones you have reached on what kind of projects that allow you to account for that now? Is it new project, or is it some of the projects that you elaborated already on, like Armofor or other things? So can you be more specific on what that phrase means?

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Yeah. So basically, what we're referring to here is mainly the R&D project. It's not the operational nor the commercial projects which are into production mode. So basically, it's just adjusting or applying an accounting policy which was already preexisting in the company. So it's not something, something new. We just, given the fact that we want to accelerate our product innovation and given the pipeline of all the activities that we are currently carrying out in terms of R&D, we want to make sure that we apply the, the best practices when it comes to the way we treat these transactions from an accounting and financial standpoint.

Wim Hoste
Equity Research Analyst, KBC Securities

Okay, clear. Thank you.

Guy Marks
VP Investor Relations, Bekaert

Thank you, Wim. I don't see any further questions, so with that, I will bring the proceedings to a close. Thank you very much, all.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Thanks, everybody, for your attendance, and enjoy the rest of the day. Thank you.

Martijn den Drijver
Equity Research Analyst, ABN AMRO Bank

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Thank you very much.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Thank you.

Taoufiq Boussaid
CFO, Bekaert

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Yves Kerstens
CEO, Bekaert

Bye.

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