Good day and welcome to Groupe ADP 2023 Q1 revenue conference call. Today call is being recorded. If you'd like to ask questions, please press star one on your telephone keypad. At this time, I'll now turn the call over to Cécile Combeau. Please go ahead.
Thank you good evening, everyone. I am Cécile Combeau, Head of Investor Relations at Groupe ADP, and with me are Philippe Pascal, our CFO, and Christelle Jacquemet, Deputy CFO. Philippe will go through some prepared remarks before we taking your questions. In order to allow greater number of you to dialogue with him and Christelle, I would like to ask you please to limit your questions to one or two only per analyst. As a reminder, certain information to be discussed on today's call is forward-looking and is subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. For these, I refer you to the disclaimer statement included in our press release and on Slide 31 of our presentation. With that, let me hand it over to Philippe.
Thank you, Cécile, and good evening, everyone. Let's jump directly to Slide 2, starting with highlights. Traffic is developing in line with our assumption, both in Paris and internationally. Recovery rates against 2019 stands at 95.2% for the group. Recovery is 88.7% in Paris, reflecting a negative impact from strikes, which is estimated at 2 points. For TAV Airports, the concession renewal contract for Ankara was signed on February. The upfront payment of the concession fee will be down in the coming days. Expansion works will start in Q2. For GMR, we have initiated a new step last month, as you know, with the launch of a projected merger between GAL GMR Airports and our listed partner, GIL GMR Airports Infrastructure Limited.
In line with the announcements made last month, we have subscribed to the EUR 331 million loan, and the scheme has been submitted to the Indian Stock Exchange two weeks ago in April. We are progressing well as planned. In term of performance, we can see from Q1 that our performance is good. Our revenue, it's a good start for Groupe ADP for this year. We have seen solid dynamics in all businesses and focus on retail. The sales per pax was strong at EUR 4.3 to reach EUR 30.3. Our total revenue is standing at EUR 1.2 billion in Q1, up 40.7% year-on-year. Moving on to Slide 3. The latest Skytrax ranking was issued on mid-March.
For the second year in a row, Paris Charles de Gaulle has been recognized as the best airport in Europe. It ranked at the fifth best airport in the world, up from sixth. Four other airports of our group are in the top 100, including Paris Orly and Delhi. These results recognize the commitment of the teams of Groupe ADP and the entire airport community who work on a daily basis to guarantee the best quality of service to passengers. Moving to Slide 4, with a focus of our operation in Paris. The graph of left show mostly traffic data in Paris. You can see that the month of March was affected by ATC strikes, mostly at Orly. The flight concerned were mostly domestic and Schengen destination.
The underlying trends in term of recovery remains strong, in line with our traffic assumption for 2023. In this context, we are preparing for strong traffic this summer and continue to move on with the transformation by ensuring the company has the right staff to succeed in its short-term and long-term challenge. Some of you may have spotted on the media our new corporate film launched in April, aiming at attracting new talents. We will continue to recruit staff in 2023, notably in cybersecurity, maintenance, and also in hospitality position. Slide 5 show overall traffic evolution, which is fully in line with our assumption. Starting with comments about traffic in our international asset, we see clearly there is strong dynamic with traffic almost fully recovered against 2019 to 99.7%. Globally a full recovery.
In Paris, we welcomed 21 million passengers this quarter, up 44.6% against Q1 in 2022. This represents a recovery of 88.7% versus 2019, excluding the effect of strike. We estimate that recovery would be around 90.7% in Paris, illustrating the strong underlying trend that I just commented. Continue to focus on Paris on Slide 6. Traffic with mainland France show a lower recovery to 73% of 2019, mainly reflecting the impact of strike this quarter, but also the closure of several domestic routes compared to before COVID. International traffic stood at 91.3% of 2019, as you know, it's the most accretive traffic, both for regulated and non-regulated revenue.
Recovery of traffic with North America is progressing well, reaching now full recovery versus 2019 with the U.S. and even above recovery for Canada this quarter. Traffic with Asia Pacific is gradually recovering as expected and a slower pace, especially with China, which has reopened at end of 2022. Traffic with China reached 10% of 2019 traffic. Low-cost traffic continued to represent a higher portion of our traffic, around 27%, 36% of price, compared to 21% before COVID. With that in mind, we can go directly to Slide 7 with a focus on Extime Paris sales per pax. Performance has been particularly strong with quarter, with an outstanding sales per pax of EUR 30.3, which is very strong. This reflects a combination of structural and contractual effects.
The main effects are structural, including the unfolding of Extime, especially with Terminal 1 reopening since December. Also a continued growth in beauty and luxury spending, driven by the quality of our offering. Obviously, the improvement of traffic mix with a stronger international traffic recovery as expected. We have also contractual effect, including inflation, which kicking last year in Q2, and foreign exchange, as commented previously, and one-off impact from strikes that is very important to have in mind that led domestic flight consolidation. Without domestic traffic, we have mechanically strong performance in our model. Going forward, we continue to deploy the Extime in all terminal in Paris. In Terminal 2E or K, this included some staging and upgrade in our offering, implying some works that started last week.
For the terminal will not be closed, we expected the transformation to put pressure on SPP for this year and the following years. Accordingly, we confirm our target of SPP of EUR 29.5 by 2025. Moving on to Slide 8, with a focus on our two main international assets. As a reminder, TAV numbers are fully consolidated in our account, and GMR Airports results are equity accounted. As you can see on the left side of the slide, TAV overall recovery stands at 94.7% of 2019 level. TAV's international asset performed very well, and part of them are reached full recovery, especially Almaty, standing at 155% of 2019 traffic levels. TAV Airports in Turkey are experiencing a slower recovery on their domestic traffic.
This is offset by international traffic already above 2019 traffic levels. On the right side of the slide, we can see GMR Airports traffic stand at 104% recovery. In Indian airport, strong recovery continued to be driven by domestic traffic, standing at 108% of 2019 levels. International traffic is now getting close to full recovery, about 94% against 2019. Goa Airport opened on January 2023 and welcomed close to 0.7 million passenger in Q1. Moving on to Slide 9. Revenue reached EUR 1.2 billion in Q1, up 40.7% versus last year, which was still affected by a restriction linked to COVID. Driven by the traffic recovery in Paris, the aviation segment is up 33.4% year-on-year.
The retail and services segment is up 42.3% versus 2022, helped by the strong sales per pax in addition to traffic. The real estate segment is up 9.6% versus Q1 2022, driven by additional rents from asset taken over in full ownership in 2022. Abroad, TAV Airports' performance has been strong, driven by both an airport asset and its service company. Worth noting, Almaty Airport in Kazakhstan grew 110%, driven by the strong traffic recovery, as mentioned earlier. To conclude, let's move to Slide 11. Our traffic assumption and financial guidance for 2023 are unchanged. We continue to expect traffic in Paris up to 93% of 2019, and for the group between 95% to 105% on the traffic of 2019 traffic.
For EBITDA guidance, we expect between 32% and 37% of revenue. Dividend policy, a stable policy with a 60% payout ratio on the dividend with a flow of EUR 3 per share. In term of CapEx, we confirm our CapEx for at the group level for an average of EUR 1.3 billion per year between 2023 and 2025. For ADP mother company, ADP SA, an average of EUR 900 million. All our other 2023/2025 guidance are maintained, including deleveraging with net debt expected between 3.5 times and 4.5 times the EBITDA by 2025. With that, let's open the line for the Q&A. Thank you.
Thank you. We will take our first question from Cristian Nedelcu from UBS. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you very much for taking my questions. Two of them, if possible, please. The first one, if I understood well, the closure of Terminal 2E K, I think you said it will start to become a headwind to your spend per passenger from Q2 this year, if I understood well. Could you help us quantify a bit how much of the terminal is closed? What type of headwinds? From memory, it was one of the terminals that was a strong performer in terms of spend per pax. Any more color that you could give us there? The second question, I think China is only 10% recovered to 2019 levels in terms of traffic.
How should we think at the full recovery and the help that it could give to the spend per passenger? W hat are you seeing today in terms of spend per passenger f rom a tourist from China versus 2019 level? Is it double what it used to be, more or less? Can you give us any indication? Thank you.
Thank you for your question. First question about the works in Terminal 2E or K. Just one thing that is very important, we don't close the retail area, we just refurbish a part of this area, we have with a slight impact in our sales per pax. For the moment, we have a good performance. We know that we have to transform and enlarge the Extime duty-free areas to integrate the first learning of Terminal 1, especially to implement some new flagship for luxury brands.
We have just to improve the capacity and and t he performance of this Terminal 2E Hall K to reach the same level and performance to confirm the fact that it's our flagship. With these works, we can have an impact but it 's not really a huge impact for the next few years. Just our key message is the fact that you can in our model put EUR 30.3 all in all for the full year due to the fact that we have an upside, but we have also a downside. In this downside, we have a base effect in this terminal due to the current works.
We have also a structural improvement for all our terminals, including Terminal 2E or K. You have the new Terminal 1. We have a good performance in beauty and luxury. We have a structural improvement in traffic mix with a stronger recovery of international traffic. We have also a good dynamic globally in the retail area. Just our key message for the next few months is to assume our guidance of EUR 29.5 in 2025 due to the fact that we have a conjuncture effect, that is inflation, strikes, that is also exchange rates, that is also part of works in Terminal 2E.
We have that is conjuncture and not structural. We have upside like the implementation of Extime strategy, like the recovery of Chinese traffic. For your second question about the Chinese traffic, we can see that globally, for the moment, we expect progressive recovery in the traffic. Progressive return of traffic with China along 2023, more in the second half of this year. We have for the moment a strong discussion between the French and the Chinese government. That is a bilateral national agreement, with a principle of reciprocity. We have to wait the conclusion of this negotiation. For the moment, we have only five airlines for just four routes.
That is not so huge compared to before the COVID crisis with now 10 flights a week compared to more than 110 flights per week in 2019. We have a very slight recovery. We are optimistic to reopen progressively this traffic. That is, in fact, an upside for our SPP. What is the level of the upside? It's difficulty depends on the trajectory and the recovery. Just globally, what we can say is the fact that SPP for Chinese destination, so with Chinese people, but also with French people to go to China, is around EUR 150 per pax.
That is a good performance and probably a good performance to restore 150. It was the performance before the crisis, without the external effect, without the improvement of our retail area. It's difficult to give you figures for the moment.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Next question, please.
We will take our next question from Elodie Rall from J.P. Morgan. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Good evening. First of all, could I ask a question on the retail spend per pax? It's 30 EUR in Q1. I think it's already higher than your long-term or midterm guidance for 2025. How do you see that evolving throughout the next quarters? My second question is on the evolution of OpEx. I know you only reported revenues, but it'd be helpful if you could give us a little bit of indication on the trajectory of OpEx, in particular, with regard to wages. A lso, if you could give us some indication on whether you've made some progress with regard to your hedging strategy. You had said you were working on hedging for 2024. If you have an update there, that would be helpful.
Yes. Stop here. Thank you.
Thank you for your question. First question about SPP. As I said, we have an excellent start in 2023, reflecting the combination effect between a structural effect and a conjunctural effect. For the structural effect, we have obviously the improvement of our offering, but also the improvement in traffic mix. A good performance linked by our new strategy, including terminal one. For conjunctural effect, we have inflation, we have strikes, we have exchange rate, but and we have the impact in Terminal 2E or K with specific works to improve, to transform, enlarge our external duty-free areas.
Globally, it's not possible to model the same effect when you compare Q1 with the other quarter of this year. Obviously, we assume a good trends and an increase in the sales per pax, but not so strong compared to Q1. That is very clear for us. Remember that the flight consolation in Q1 linked to the strike are globally for 80% domestic flight and Schengen flight. T hat is the least contributive passenger, both in term of aeronautical fees, but also in term of SPP. The seasonality of SPP is it's strong.
When you can see in our last publication, we can see that we disclose the seasonality. The strike for the SPP is favorable because mechanically we have more international traffic than we have domestic traffic due to the fact that the consolidation, it's domestic traffic. For the second question about OpEx, Christelle, if you want to...
Yes. To give some color on the OpEx. First of all, as you know, we highlighted the fact that in 2022 we were quite well- protected on our OpEx. Globally, on inflation, we were well- protected because of our purchasing policy. We are currently having a strategy in which we have pre-annual contracts, so we feel the impact of inflation at each time we are renewing some contract. You know around 40% of our contracts will be renewed between 2023 and 2024. We will feel some impact above that, first of all. Second element regarding your question on energy.
Indeed, we were also quite well- protected in 2022, we will be quite well- protected also in 2023 because we have a hedging which will last until the end of 2023. For the moment, we are indeed working on our new hedging strategy, we will be waiting for the summer to start a new hedging strategy. We are indeed waiting for electricity prices in France to reflect the return nuclear availabilities, prices are expected to be more favorable than they are currently. That's why we are, for the moment, waiting. Our objective will be to have fully covered our 2024 power needs, as well maybe as a portion of 2025 needs.
Keep in mind, on energy that there are two elements who could help us from a financial point of view. First of all, we contracted some PPA recently, and it enabled us to have interesting prices. It represents around 10% of today's annual needs of our Parisian platforms. Two solar farms are already commissioned, and a new one will be in the months to come. This is a first protection. Secondly, for the moment, we were not benefiting from the ARENH strategy, but we could have a recourse to this strategy in the future. Regarding OpEx, maybe also a word on our staff costs.
We also explained that there will be a little more pressure going forward on our staff costs. First of all, because in 2022, all our departure were made at the beginning of the year, whereas the recruitments were made gradually in 2022, and we will feel the full impact of this recruitment in 2023. At the same time, we also have a recruitment plan for 2023, quite similar to the one made in 2022. Indeed, there is an acceleration to fill some positions, especially in terms of cybersecurity, maintenance, hospitality, and quality of service. We will continue our recruitment strategy. On top of those recruitments, there will be also the effects of the wages increase.
As you know, we took several measures in mid-June 2022 to have a first step of salary increase. Then, we also had a new measure beginning 2023. In total, when you compare 2023 staff cost forecast to 2022, it will be an additional cost of EUR 30 million. On top of that, we will also experience the impact of natural inflation of wages. Maybe one additional point important to have in mind. Keep in mind that in 2022, the staff costs also included a EUR 20 million provision reversal, so that was a positive impact that won't be in 2023 results.
All in all, there will be a little bit more pressure on our OpEx, but all of those elements are reflected in our guidances of EUR 70-20 OpEx per pax at ADP SA level.
Thank you, Christine.
Very detailed. Thank you.
Next question, please.
We'll take our next question from Sathish Sivakumar from Citi. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Thank you. I got two questions. Firstly, on the real estate, can you give us some color on what has been the vacancy rate in Q1? How does it compare versus Q4? In terms of the indexation impact, how should we consider going into Q2? That's the first question on the real estate. The second one is around the retail and services. Even there, you actually had a very strong performance versus last year. If I exclude the passenger impact that's on a unit pax basis, you are up around 22%. Again, what's driving that? How should we think about that going into the rest of the year? Would you normalize similar to what you said on the Extime normalization around EUR 31 per pax? Thank you.
Thank you. Just for the first question about real estate. In fact, we have a mechanic increase due to the index, but it's not index like inflation, it's a specific index that is not so dynamic. It's a very slight increase. The main explanation of the current performance and the increase of the real estate segment up 9% to 9.6% is due by the additional rents from asset taken over in full ownership last year. Mechanically, and it's okay year after year, we recover the ownership of the building of hangars and so on. Mechanically, we have a good effect in our revenue, and in our EBITDA also, and a good dynamic of the real estate segment. For your second question, can you repeat? We don't understand clearly what is your main point, please, about retail.
On the retail and services, t he other two line elements on the retail spend, like other shops and bars and restaurants, obviously, it has seen even significant unit performance. What is actually driving that? Is it mainly coming from other shops, or it's mainly food and beverage relating there?
We have two main points. First, for the food and beverage, in fact, last year we have a COVID effect, so now this year we have a good recovery about that. The second point, it's structurally dynamic in terms of shops due to the strong improvement in our strategy with luxury brands. There are some closure last year that we reopen now, but it's a mechanic recovery linked by the recovery of the traffic.
Got it. Thank you.
Thank you. Next question, please.
We'll take our next question from Dario Materloni from BNP Paribas Exane. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Hello, good evening. Two questions. One, how much retail square meters in airside did you have open in Q1 this year, and how does this compare to Q1 2019? Second question on business traffic, which was around 30% of traffic in 2019, how much has this recovered, if you have the data? Thanks.
Thank you for your question. In term of retail, as you know, square meter s now globally stable. We have just reopened some shops linked by the reopening of the terminal. In Q1, we don't reopen new terminals. We reopen in December. Square meter is not the main driver. The main driver now is the quality of offering, the luxury brands, the mixed traffic, and not the square meter. Globally , compare Q1 2023 compared to Q1 2022, we have just to check the reopening of our infrastructure. Globally, it's a huge part of the infrastructure like Terminal 1, but also Terminal 2B and 2D.
For the moment, we have opened Terminal 1, but we closed the Terminal 2E and 2C. All in all, we have an increase in term of square meters, but not so huge. It's not for us a good explanation about that. In term of business traffic, j ust to remember that it's a key element for airlines, but not really for airport. For us, the main driver in terms of value creation is the destination. More international traffic than Schengen or domestic traffic. In the international traffic, more in Asia, in Africa, and in U.S., compared to the other traffic. It's a question of destination. It's not a question of economic class or business class.
For our clients, the airlines, it's important because if you have a strong business class, we can have a good profitability of the line, of the destination, of the flight. For us, globally, we can see for the moment, a strong recovery in the business class, first of all. Second point, we expect but it's not sensitive in our model. We expect a slight decrease, but business class, it's now not just for businessman, it's a woman. It's more family, and leisure class, for people that have enough contributive effect. Globally, it's not sensitive in our model.
Thank you.
Thank you. We'll take our next question from Graham Hunt from Jefferies. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Just a couple of questions from me. First one, actually, just on your lounges. I was wondering how you're seeing performance trending there, and if there's anything you can say on your expectations going into the summer season for the lounges under the Extime brand. Second question, again on Extime. I don't know if it's a little bit early to ask, but is there anything you can say around digital engagement that you're seeing there with travelers? Anything that you can shed some color on would be helpful. Thanks.
It's your first question about the performance and the expectation in terms of lounges. For the moment, we try to implement our Extime strategy through the opening of new lounge brand by Extime. In fact, we have two kind of lounges. There's a premium lounge but also we try to have an exclusive strategy for VVIP. For the moment, lounge, it's the part of Extime SPP. We have a good performance, but we don't disclose exactly what is the performance of the lounges. For the moment, it's a little bit early to know exactly what is trajectory and what is the expectation for that. We deployed our strategy.
For the digitalization and the digital engagement, we have Extime Rewards with a very high dynamic. We can see that a huge part of our sales per pax is linked by a specific passenger with the loyalty program through Extime. It's very huge part. F or us, it's a proof that the Extime reward strategy is probably a good driver to increase our value creation. For the moment, we don't disclose exactly what is the performance of this specific strategy. It's a little bit early for the moment. Thank you for these two interesting questions.
Thank you.
We will take our next question from Achal Kumar from HSBC. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hi. Good evening. Thank you for taking my question. First of all, I wanted to understand about Extime. Basically, you have reported a very strong growth, and you mentioned that this is driven by the long-haul traffic. Within long-haul traffic, not sure if you can give us a bit more color about who is driving this Extime. Are these Americans? Are these Asians? Are these what? W ho is driving this significant growth in Extime? That would be more helpful. Secondly, about Asia. The Asia traffic recovery has lagged all the other regions. Now, two things actually. What is the recovery you are building in on Asia in your guidance for 2023?
I could see that the Asian carriers are growing far rapidly as compared to Europeans. Do you think that could actually help your retail spend per pax since Asian carriers, since Asian passengers, especially Chinese, Japanese, they do a lot more shopping than anybody else. What upside do you see from Asian traffic growing in that? Finally, in terms of going back to your OpEx. W ould you mind giving us a bit of a color in terms of what i mpact do you expect from inflation? I understand that you had agreed on 3% wage increase, if I'm not wrong, but that seems far too low as compared to where inflation is. Do you see any further pressure on that? Thank you so much.
Thank you for your question. Your first question about the Extime effect. With a specific destination. In fact, we have a strong performance with international destination, especially with U.S. That is very dynamic. U.S., it's a key destination for Air France. A huge part of the profitability of Air France is linked by U.S. destination. When you see our figures, we don't disclose exactly as SPP. I'm sorry for that, we can see that we have a good dynamic for U.S., but also globally, all the international destinations, including the Asian traffic, despite the fact that we don't have a full recovery of the Asian traffic.
Our strategy is to improve our the quality of our experience for all the passengers, including the international passengers. We have also a next time strategy for the lifestyle terminal. Like the terminal with domestic or Schengen traffic, also terminal with the both traffic, international and domestic. For your second question about the recovery of Asian traffic, it's difficult to say now. We are still in negotiation. France negotiate with the Chinese government. In our model, we put a slight recovery in the first half and an acceleration in the second half of this year, not a full recovery. For us, a full recovery is in 2025.
For the moment, we can secure part of new flights. F or the moment, we have 20 flights each week. Probably we can increase up to 30-34 flights in June. That is globally in our scope. For the rest of the recovery, for us, it's just an upside, but we don't take account in our model. For your third question, perhaps, Christelle you will...
Yes. To give, again, a little bit color on the inflation and when you modelize OpEx. As I was mentioning previously, first of all, you have to take into account the energy impact linked to the renewal of our aging strategy, but only beginning in 2024. There will be also impact on OpEx linked to the increase in traffic. Some of our OpEx will naturally grow with traffic. You have to have in mind that most of our OpEx are linked to the opening of infrastructure and not only to traffic. Indeed, the impact of inflation that will be felt at each time we are renewing some contract.
As I was mentioning, around 10% of contracts at ADP SA level, I mean, are indexed on inflation and around 15% of contracts are to be renewed in 2023. When you also include 2024, it's around 40% of our contracts that will be renewed. For instance, if you take 6% of inflation, we expect around a little bit around EUR 20 million impact in 2023. Regarding wages and salary, there will be, as I was mentioning, the natural inflation of wages. The impact of the salary increase negotiated both mid-July 2022 and beginning of 2023, and indeed, it's an impact of EUR 30 million compared to 2022.
Maybe a word also regarding inflation because I was speaking only about ADP SA, but you have also to have in mind TAV which is suffering from inflation and which has also an important plan of recruitment. You also have to take this into account when you you modelize the evolution of OpEx at the group level. At the end of the day, only at ADP SA level you have the guidance of EUR 17 million-20 million to modelize the impact.
Thank you, Christelle.
Thank you.
Next question, please.
We will take our next question from Nicolas Mora from Morgan Stanley. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Good evening all. Just a couple of questions for me. First one, going back on the Extime spend per pax. If we take in Q1 and are a little bit more cautious for the rest of the year, as you hinted to, is there any reason why you wouldn't get very, very close to EUR 30 per pax of spending? That's the first question. Number two, not much to do with revenues, you've reconfirmed what you had in the annual report on the regulated profits for 2022 and the returns. Do you expect to give us a little bit more granularity on that EUR 365 million of EBIT from the regulated business? That to me looks very high.
From here also, what's the tone of the discussion for tariffs with the regulator looking at 2024, considering the what was a good performance in 2022 and what should improve again in 2023? That should be it.
Thank you, Nicolas. For your first question, difficult to say more things than compared to the previous answer because we in fact we have contractual structural effect. In fact, we are cautious. In fact, we know that, for the moment, the dynamic it's globally good, we prefer to confirm our guidance for 2025 with EUR 29.5. We just gave you some color about the structural and the conjuncture effect. In fact, difficult to know exactly what is the conjuncture effect.
If we have more inflation, if we have a more favorable exchange rate, if we have a huge impact, or not bad impact, linked by other elements, like macroeconomic element or political element. F or the moment we just started the year, it's a little bit early to change and to change our guidelines. We don't know exactly what is the full effect. We have just performance for three months, that is not a key period for ADP. When you see the seasonality, the beginning of the year, it's not representative for the full years.
For your second question, in fact, we have a strong regulated ROCE for 2022 for 4.8% for 2022, which is very good and strong recovery. In fact, we expect in the next year some negative impact due to the increase of our regulated OpEx. We expect also linked by our moderation in term of regulated CapEx, favorable impact. In the regulated ROCE. All in all, we try to manage the French regulator to slightly increase our regulated ROCE to reach the level of regulated WACC. It's difficult to know if it's 2024 or it's 2025.
It depend on the level of the regulated WACC fixed by the French regulator. We know that for the moment we can have favorable elements in term of regulated WACC due to the fact that it's the calculation, it's an average in term of with the five years backward. The regulated WACC should unmark progressively the current market condition, therefore increasingly progressively the level of regulated WACC. We don't have a strong visibility for the moment. All in all, we have a pressure on the regulated ROCE for the next few year due to the OpEx increase, due to the management of CapEx. Thank you, Nicola. Next question, please.
We'll take our next question from Marcin Wojtal from Bank of America. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you very much. I've got just one question on airport capacity, in particular at Paris or Orly. Traffic in some months is already above pre-COVID. Can you just remind us if there is still some spare capacity? Can traffic at Orly grow well above pre-COVID? Maybe the same question for Charles de Gaulle. If you could remind us how many millions of passengers could you have theoretically at Charles de Gaulle, that would be very helpful. Thank you.
Thank you for your question. It's difficult to compare the full capacity of Orly with the pre-COVID situation. In 2019 Orly, we closed for a few months the one runway that we have a strong impact in our performance in term of traffic. Globally now after COVID, with the full capacity of the airport, we can mechanically welcome more passengers than before COVID in Orly, mechanically. We have a strong infrastructure. We have slight impact, but globally, we know that we can reach in Orly 30-33 million passenger without enough trouble. Probably more, but it's difficult to know now. In CDG, it's globally the same situation in CDG in 2019.
We don't have the junction between Terminal 2B and 2D. We have the Terminal 2B was closed for refurbishment. We have a part of this international satellite in Terminal 1 closed to build the new junction, and we open at the end of 2022. Globally, we have more capacity in CDG now than before COVID. W e can welcome without trouble more than 80 million passengers. We don't have constraints in terms of runway. We have four parallel runways that is very strong. We can globally double the traffic with one runway. We have just to manage the passengers.
All in all, perhaps, just to conclude, the fact that when you see our figures now, we can see that the load factor is not so huge. We can increase our load factor. That is good for the airline because we optimize the number of passenger for each flight, and mechanically we optimize the revenue of the airlines, but it's also good for the airport due to the fact that with the same infrastructure, we can welcome more passenger. Mechanically, we can have more aeronautical fees and more retail fees. Globally, we don't have constraints for the moment in terms of capacity in Orly, but also in CDG. It's not the case it's the case now, probably for 2042 and then 2043, w e have to build new infrastructure in Orly or in CDG to continue the story. Thank you for your question.
Thank you very much.
There are no further questions on the line. Please proceed.
Okay. Now it's time to close the presentation. Thank you everyone for having logged on to this conference. Our next financial communication will be on the 27th of July with the Q1 results disclosure. In the meantime, we will attend some conferences, and we seek to meet you in roadshow. We are, of course, very much looking forward to seeing you in all the coming days and weeks. Obviously, feel free to get in touch with Eliott or myself for any follow-up question. With that, have a good evening. Bye.
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