Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome at the Air France-KLM Investor Day. My name is Michiel Klinkers, Head of Investor Relations, and it's great, it's a great pleasure to see all of you here today in Paris, and I would like to welcome as well our guest, guests following this Investor Day via the webcast. Today, we will provide an update on the group strategy, transformation, our people, customer experience, brand, Flying Blue, cargo, engineering and maintenance, sustainability, and our financial trajectory. This will be done by the following six speakers from the Group Executive Committee: Ben Smith, CEO of Air France-KLM, Anne Rigail, CEO of Air France, Marjan Rintel, CEO of KLM, Steven Zaat, CFO of Air France-KLM, Angus Clarke, CCO of Air France-KLM, and Henri de Peyrelongue, EVP Marketing, Air France-KLM.
After the presentations, you will have the opportunity to ask all your questions to the management, and 5:30, we would like to close the formal part of this Investor Day and invite everyone here in the room for a drink and a small bite to continue the discussion with the Group Executive Committee. For now, I would like to hand over to Ben Smith to reveal the group's strategic plan until 2028. Ben, the floor is yours.
Okay, thanks, Michiel, and good afternoon to all of you. Wow! Big crowd here. We weren't sure we'd be able to attract this many people, but thank you all for joining, and thank you for those that couldn't make it in here today but are following us via the webcast. It's been almost four years since we've held one of these capital market days, and for me, personally, I'm really happy we're finally able to do one of these. Thanks to those of you that follow us, we really appreciate it. So we'll get going here. Starting out here on the first slide.
As you know, since my arrival, we've put a lot of emphasis on improving the relationships with our frontline staff, in particular at Air France, where the social relationship in 2018 really was at a poor level. So this is really the bedrock of our foundation, how we've been moving forward. And today, I'm quite pleased with how the progress we've been making. Moving on now to the next slide here. So the purpose here at the bottom is our official raison d'être, which is at the forefront of a more responsible European aviation. We unite people for the world of tomorrow. So this is spread out internally, quite extensively, and we use this externally. And then, of course, our strengths.
I think all of you know, we have quite a large number of employees, 78,000 around the world, with the bulk of them being in France and in the Netherlands. Three strong brands. We've got KLM, Air France, and Transavia. We've got some great partnerships. We are part of SkyTeam. We have an extensive relationship with Delta Air Lines in the United States, amongst many others. We've got a fantastic network from our two main hubs, Amsterdam Schiphol and Paris-Charles de Gaulle here in Paris, and we're well on our way to lead on the sustainability front. We've got a problem here with the video. Okay.
In 2019, we came up with a lot of commitments, and happy to share that we've pretty much delivered on everything that I was hoping we would achieve. Took a little bit of time during the period of COVID to get back on track. But on the main items which we presented to you in 2019, this was an extract, this page here, of the presentation that we made in 2019, and we'll just take the next two slides to walk you through what we've done here. More flexible social contracts. In the Netherlands, we've always had a good collaborative relationship with all the work groups there.
Always some tensions and negotiation going on, but, has not, had not never resulted, at least in my time, with any, social action. However, in France, as you know, a little bit more challenging. Air France in 2018 was coming off of an extensive strike, general strike, and the company had lost over EUR 330 million alone in 2018, because of strikes. So that was a, a big, big, endeavor of ours, was to, was to create a much stronger base and relationship, a trustful relationship, one of respect, transparency, and to try to keep, everything confidential inside, Air France-KLM. And this, this is stable now at Air France. There are 17 unions at Air France.
Of course, the ups and downs, but in terms of impact on the operation and impact on our customers, we have a very stable operation right now at Air France. We are well on our way to simplifying our fleet. We've made some significant orders, and we're gonna be streamlining our fleet. Angus Clarke will be going through in further detail through the medium-haul and the long-haul fleets, what we're doing at both airlines. And then we've got the domestic market here in France. Of course, there's no domestic market in the Netherlands, but the domestic market here in France has been a challenge for a long time. Money-losing. The TGV train has been or is the number one competitor that we have here in domestic France.
And recently, we've got this new phenomenon since COVID, where more so than in the rest of Europe, Europe, we're seeing a big shift away from flying to... to video conferencing or, or not flying at all, much more so than we're seeing in the rest of, in the rest of Europe. So this has resulted in the requirement to really accelerate our transformation, and I'll go through that in further detail in, in just a few slides. But this is what we've, what we identified. We already knew we had to do this. It-- what we've come across now is we have to go, go even further and faster than what we planned in, in 2019. Aircraft utilization was always quite strong at KLM. It was not, not set as an objective.
Air France, we had a lot of flights where we were leaving airplanes on the ground for 8-12 hours at destination, doing double overnights, you know, on routes where we had a monopoly position, so it, you know, wasn't necessary from a competitive purpose, perspective. So the bulk of those have been removed, which has driven aircraft utilization up considerably at Air France. Operational transformation, as you know, at Schiphol, the airport is, you know, quite well positioned. One terminal, it's... Schiphol was the airport that designed or invented the long-haul transfer concept with KLM and with the government of the Netherlands. And there's still, however, lots of transformation opportunities we had in 2019, and we're moving forward on those.
It's a lot more challenging here in Paris. As you know, the facility at Roissy-Charles de Gaulle was not designed for transfer traffic. However, with consistent relationship building and joint plans with Aéroports de Paris, the operator of Roissy, we've managed to significantly improve the customer experience going through CDG. I don't know if any of you have connected through CDG, but it is a lot better. Just simple things like signage, having the right connection times, trying to cluster the flights that do have a lot of connections in the right zone in the airport, has helped us, and if you look at the ratings that we get from our customers who connect, it's significantly higher.
And then, of course, we now have a new management in place at KLM, which is enabling us to really leverage additional group synergies to get the synergy levels up to our main competitors in Europe. So on increasing unit revenue, you know, this at Air France clarifying the brand strategy was key. We had sort of a mixed brand strategy a bit confusing in 2019. We had HOP, we had Joon, and of course, we had Transavia and Air France. So Joon, we decided to shut down, and HOP, we reversed the brand HOP, took it out from up front, and we positioned it just like we have at KLM.
And so now it is Air France HOP, with the brand actually very, very light, and it's really we're pushing Air France operated by HOP, similar to all the other ACMI contracts that are in place in the U.S. and throughout Europe. So this is a clarification to the front, to our market, and we removed the separate commercial management team that we had at HOP, who were running their own revenue management, their own sales, their own advertising. That's now all been centralized into the main group.
Configurations, we had a lot of different configurations in place in 2019 across the entire fleet, so we're standardizing those, first of all, to optimize the interior of the cabins to get unit costs down and unit revenue up, and we've made a lot of progress. Still, a long ways to go, but since 2019, quite a number of the airplanes have been optimized from an interior seating perspective, and that's helped us. The A380s, the Airbus A380s, were very difficult in 2018. We had to make a decision on that fleet type. The onboard products of...
aircraft that were on the A380s were quite old, so the actual hard products, the first class La Première, business, premium economy, and the economy cabins required a complete retrofit to be at market standards. And of course, these airplanes were on our best routes. So the decision was made that the money that was required to bring these up to market levels was too much, including the engine overhauls. So this is before COVID; we decided that we were going to early retire these airplanes. And then, of course, during COVID, we accelerated that. So we were ahead on that front, and as you saw during COVID, that was the aircraft type that our competitors took out first. So we were pleased that we did that.
It took a lot of pressure off the operation in the mornings when we'd have four or five of these airplanes arrive early. It was driving a very, very complex banking structure in order to support those planes. So refocused market positioning, all the strategy I'll talk about in a minute. And then, of course, ancillary revenues, Angus will talk about. Transavia growth, I've got some more detail. Flying Blue, we'll have Ollie go through that, and I'll touch on ENM and cargo at the end. So the simplified and optimized operating model, this as I said, cleaning up the brands was a major part of that, really focusing on two operating models, low cost at Transavia and network carriers at KLM and at Air France. Pretty straightforward.
We've really, as I said earlier, improved the relationship with management and our frontline staff. And those of you that fly Air France, I hope you're seeing, the improved, engagement that we've seen between, between our frontline staff and customers. Sustainability, we're leading on that front. I'll talk about that at the end. And then we continue to transform, and we've had, we still have a lot, a lot of opportunities to bring down cost, and that's still... Steven will walk us through some of that and what we're, what we're continuing to do.... So on the EBIT margin, 2019, first nine months to 2023, first nine months, increased that by 2.7%. And, if you look at the first nine months of 2023, we're sitting at 7.8%.
Of course, that includes our strongest quarter, which is the third quarter. And then, our strategic ambitions remain the same, the ones we outlined in 2019. So improve our market position. So we want to solidify our position in Amsterdam with the slot portfolio we have. That's quite straightforward. But of course, at CDG, being an open airport, this takes a strong planning and really good implementation to make sure that we're able to do that. Boost profitability, we think, with the largest inbound market in Europe, if not in the world, that we have a lot of potential to improve our position here in Paris.
Then, as I said, the best connecting hub in Europe, in Amsterdam, same opportunity there. The brands are fantastic. KLM is 104 years old, Air France, 90. So we're going to bring out the foundation of those brands, and see what else we can do to use the full value that those brands have got to boost unit revenue, especially here in France. In the premium market, we've got this unique luxury brand association that I think we can do more with. Okay, so commitments that we made going forward in the midterm: so operating margin above 8%, operating cash, free cash flow, significantly positive, unit cost reduction.
We still believe we have a ways to go on that, and that we can attain it, and of course, Investment Grade rating, we're looking to get in the midterm. So the team, and they're all here today. I think most of them are seated over here. We have, as I think, the top lines already... They've already been mentioned by Michiel. Then we also have Anne Brachet, who's head of Air France-KLM Engineering and Maintenance. We have Adriaan den Heijer in charge of cargo. We have Oltion Carkaxhija, who is in front of me, in charge of strategy. We have Constance Thio, who is in charge of HR and sustainability.
We have Pierre-Olivier Bandet, who's in charge of IT, and Alexandre Boissy, who is our corporate secretary, who's right here in the middle. Okay, so just quick, a few more updates here. I think you all, you all followed this. I don't need to spend any time on this, where we are, you know, in twenty-- where we're expected to be in 2024 versus 2019, from a traffic perspective. You know, on the right here, quite similar trends to what all of our competitors are seeing, with the exception of the French domestic, which I think is quite unique. And here, you know, very well positioned or clearer positioning than we've had in the past. We have, if you look in the past, Transavia in the Netherlands, Transavia in France, were point of sale, Netherlands, point of sale, France, fully leisure focused.
And now that we have the, the flexibility that was negotiated with the Air France pilot unions, we can significantly grow Transavia France, and that's exactly what we're doing. So the makeup of the, customer base will be different, but, we don't have any plans to fly Transavia, either one, beyond the medium haul. And then, of course, Air France and KLM, we're going to continue to strengthen our hub positions in, Amsterdam and at, Paris CDG. So you can see here, great hubs, fully diversified in, at CDG and Amsterdam. Very solid, fully competitive. And you can see the breadth of the, only, network with Transavia and Amsterdam, with Transavia. So quite, quite dense there. Just the concentration of this is enabling our network teams to, to be, much more agile.
Throughout COVID, we were able to much better—we were able to move capacity around in a much more flexible way than I believe our competitors. So here, this is a... This slide, I think from my perspective, is quite interesting. So Air France, KLM, we're at 91% versus our 2019 capacity level. So that's what we flew in Q3 2023. And you can see, this is comparative to the our two main competitors, IAG and Lufthansa Group. We are, in terms of capacity, we're number two on the transatlantic, despite the fact that we don't have a position at London Heathrow, which is the largest largest market into the U.S. So strong number two.
Latin America, we, you know, we don't have the same kind of strength in terms of, in terms of links that Spain and Portugal have, but we are still in a strong number two position. Africa, we are by far the number one player. Asia, Asia and Middle East, we don't have the same natural links on the Indian subcontinent that are there between the U.K., and still a strong number two. And then, of course, with the French overseas markets, these are very, very big, so Martinique, Guadeloupe, Réunion Island, as well as the Dutch overseas markets, in terms of capacity to those regions, well ahead of British Airways IAG. So here we mentioned this in 2019, which is really key.
From Paris, the market being so big, in 2019, we had about a 50/50 split between connecting customers and local. From what we're seeing in the market and the studies that we've done, that is not the most optimal mix, and we identified that in 2019. We don't want to go to, you know, 90/10, but just a few percentage points up, there's definitely an improved profitability potential, and we've done just that. We've gone up by three points in terms of flipping it more toward local. We've also, just happens to be, it's not directly linked, we happen to have gone up three points in premium share as well. So the Paris CDG hub is moving exactly in the direction that we'd like.
It matches the the fleet configurations that we put in place. So this is this continues along the exact same strategy. So we see us getting to 54-55% local at CDG. That's that's our aim for for the time being. So here you can see on a medium-haul network this is a challenge for legacy carriers. We wanna make sure that we have as much feed as possible at a at a reasonable COI return, which is tough. You know, we have a-- we use a lot of regional-sized airplanes, which work extremely well at KLM. With Cityhopper, we have some unique strength holds in the Baltics in Scandinavia, and in particular, the U.K., which drive high yields.
Then we have about 50/50 KLM Cityhopper fleet sizes that feed our Amsterdam hub. At CDG, we've had a challenge, and with the Airbus A220 coming in, that is, that's becoming a lot more manageable. So getting the exact right mix between local and connecting, so that we get maximum profit on the long haul is, is becoming a lot easier with the balance and the size of the airplanes that we have. You can see we have less exposure to the money-losing passenger capacity. So we can keep the frequencies, and with the average gauge coming down on some of these routes, you can see the exposure is, is much lower.
So here with Orly, those of you that have been following the, the, I guess, the history of Orly, it just in 2019, Air France, the Air France group, so the green bar is Transavia, the lighter blue bar is Air France HOP, so the regional arm, and then Air France is the dark blue. Well over 50% of the slots in 2019, but you can see the makeup of the rest of the slots. So 23% were low-cost carriers that dominated or that had control of those. So Vueling, easyJet on the short haul, and then, of course, Air France, Air France, El Al on the long haul. Those are the main players.
And then if you look at the VFR to North Africa, which are big markets, so you've got you've got Tunisair, Air Algérie, and Royal Air Maroc, big volumes, lower cost structure than Air France, and difficult for us to compete with Air France. And then very small percentage, so 10%, of legacy carriers, and there aren't that many. You have Iberia, TAP, and Lufthansa with feeding into their own hubs. So with the makeup of how we were deploying our slots in 2019, we were losing a lot of money on the Air France and the Hop service. So how to evolve that and maintain our position at this extremely strategically located airport? This airport, as you know, is close to Paris.
Paris is the largest city on the European continent. So to be in a situation where we have 50% of the slots and we're not, and not profitable, we thought that we have a potential here with a low-cost carrier platform, which has similar unit cost to, say, easyJet, that we should be able to turn this, turn this airport into profit. Obviously, a big, big effort, a lot of risk on implementation and execution, but a... You know, walking away from this airport would be such a lost opportunity, and we think we can make it here with Transavia. So we're well on our way. We've pulled out the HOP aircraft. We've taken the HOP fleet and cut it in half. They've not been redeployed.
Air France, we started to move airplanes over to CDG. The remaining aircraft that are there are only there because we can't grow the Transavia fleet fast enough. So we've announced recently that we will be pulling all Air France capacity out of Orly, except for Corsica, and we'll do that by 2026. So you'll see 95%, 98% of our capacity, Air France capacity, come out of Orly, and then that will all be taken out. So we'll keep our slot portfolio by with Transavia airplanes. Now, you can see there's an expansion of the low cost number of slots or percentage of slots. We lost some slots during COVID. There were remedies put in place. We had to give up slots at Orly.
The European Commission imposed that on us when we took the loans from the French state to stabilize the group during COVID. So there's a slight change there, but we still have exactly 50% of the slots right now. So here at the split, and what we're looking at doing here, so Orly, we're gonna try to move a good 60%-70% of the domestic capacity out of Orly and redirect that to European and North African destinations. So we're well on our way there. We see that the North Africa is extremely strong. It... new capacity gets absorbed quite quickly. We're able to make money quickly. It's the European services which are taking time.
We're obviously going against some well-established airlines like Vueling and easyJet, but we are just now starting to dial up our Flying Blue, which is the, you know, the key, the key unique, you know, tool that we have that the others have not got. And then, of course, CDG, we're trying to grow this and solidify this hub, as I said, as best as we can. Okay, so this is, we do a lot of seasonal flying at Transavia, so these are not all the destinations, but you can see they're all obviously in Europe.
We are doing, as I said, quite well in the northern part of Africa, and we're starting to get a foothold in the Middle East, in the leisure destinations in Egypt. And we've got... It's unfortunate that we've got this situation going on right now in Israel, and Beirut is a little bit slower. But, you know, before the issues in Israel, the Tel Aviv market was very strong for Transavia. And here you can see first nine months, 25 million customers went through Orly, so it's not a small airport. And then you can see here on the right, we don't hold the number one position from a capacity perspective on some of the major routes out of Paris. So you can see Lisbon, Madrid, Rome, Milan, Barcelona, very, very big markets.
So there's lots of opportunity for us to to grow with minimal—no possibility for these competitors to add capacity because there are no slots. So as we transfer Air France slots to Transavia, we can choose to grow our position on... And these are just the top markets. There are plenty of others, depending on where the most profit is. And we're, I think with Flying Blue, as I mentioned here on a couple of the slides, we have everything that we should to make this work. New fleet is on order. We're tweaking the the customer offering, which we didn't have before, to put a business-friendly type fare and the max fare to give full flexibility boarding. I think many of you have tried easyJet before, you know, that kind of flexibility can be there.
And then what's really exciting about Orly is the new link into central Paris, which will open in June, and it looks like it's going to be on time. And this is the Metro Line 14, which will be twenty minutes right into central Paris. So that's a huge positive for this airport. And then, of course, once we've put... You know, we've solidified our position at Orly. We need 75 aircraft at Orly to around approximately 75 aircraft at Orly to solidify our position and use up our slots. Amsterdam, we've got just over 40 airplanes based at Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Eindhoven. New fleet coming there. And then, of course, we've got, you know, the model is quite solid. We have Orly Airport, which is key.
We have to solidify our position there. Then in a few years, we'll look at additional bases around Europe and outside of the Netherlands, when and if that becomes available. It's nothing in the short term, though, that we have planned. Okay, so this, you're all aware of the challenges we've been facing in Amsterdam. The Dutch state has, you know, they've come out quite strong with their desire to reduce the movements at Amsterdam Schiphol with the goal of reducing noise. So they did come up with the government did come up with a unilateral approach, which recently has been, you know, has been fought quite heavily by the European Commission and the U.S. DOT.
So the Dutch state has pulled back on that, first, experimental phase that they wanted to put it in, and they are following the, the, ICAO, European Commission, U.S. DOT, approved, balanced approach, which, gives an opportunity to, all stakeholders to try and find the most balanced way of, attaining or reaching the, the desired goal, which is 20%, less noise reduction. So we've KLM has shown a, a alternative, which we think is quite solid and can achieve, what the government is looking for. So that'll be our impact or our input. And then if we're not able to maintain all the slots we need, we've got, quite a lot of flexibility to mitigate, the loss of any potential slots.
We have full flexibility on our long-haul, medium-haul, and regional fleet by gauging up with the orders that we've made. So we're confident we can maintain our seat capacity. We've done a lot of simulations around if we have to reduce one or two frequencies on some of the short-haul routes. We will keep the entire long-haul network that we have if we are put into a situation where we have to reduce some slots, and of course, we'll up gauge to the airplanes I just mentioned here. Consolidation, as you know, we've been quite strategic on this. We looked at... Not strategic, we're very careful on this. There was the opportunity to participate in ITA. We, as Air France-KLM, we've invested in the former Alitalia twice.
So to put the third opportunity in front of our board, we'd have to be quite solid and quite comfortable that we could make it, and we didn't feel that was the case. Very complex environment to operate in with two airports in Milan and, of course, Rome, which is highly seasonal, with not much traffic in January, February, and March. So big seasonality, so how to optimize the fleet, very, very difficult. And that was a requirement of the Italian state, was to develop a hub in Italy. So we stepped back and quite comfortable that with our position at Leonardo, at Rome, and at Malpensa, we'll get the feed that we want.
You know, it's not causing us any grief that we did not move forward on that. We did, as you know, we took a 19% stake in SAS, which is in final process of being fully approved, coming out of the bankruptcy process. It's not quite done yet, but we assume we're going to get there. And we view this as a very low-cost, low-risk way of participating in M&A. It's in our risk profile. We're quite comfortable with it, and what we like is immediately SAS will exit Star Alliance, which we think is a very, very big win for SkyTeam.
Then in the near future, we'll look at does it make sense to bring SAS into the Air France-KLM, Virgin-Delta joint venture? So Scandinavia already is a very strong point of sale market for KLM, so we do have experience there. As I said, 19.9% ability to move SAS out of the Lufthansa group sphere. We're quite happy with that. That's the intro. A lot of it is updates from where we were in 2019, and I'd like to invite Angus up to take us through in more detail some of the commercial items.
Thank you, Ben. Good afternoon. I'm Angus Clarke, Chief Commercial Officer at Air France-KLM. I'm going to talk to you about two topics under my responsibility today. First one's alliances, and the second one is fleet. Let's make sure this works. Yeah, here we go. So alliances are absolutely essential in terms of driving that incremental bit of profit that I think the community here today appreciates, but we also appreciate running the business. In order to achieve this, we've obviously joined and been a founding member of the SkyTeam alliance to counter Star Alliance and Oneworld. So that's our alliance positioning. That's important. That gives a lot of benefits to the customer, as well as revenue benefits to our business.
As part of this, we have 59 code-share agreements that all serve to expand our reach across the global network, which is absolutely essential to attracting corporate customers. We need a very big, broad, profitable for us, but also effective network to attract the best and highest-yielding customers. So partners are very important in terms of the partners we choose in order to have that comprehensive network that people actually want to travel on. We also have six joint ventures. Everyone here is largely aware of our very successful joint venture with Delta. That is the absolute bedrock of our global partnerships. It's our largest partnership by revenue, and it's our most profitable partnership for them and us, so it's absolutely important. We also have very good success with interline agreements.
We have a number of interline agreements that don't involve code share across the globe, and a lot of them deliver for us a number of benefits in terms of connectivity, such as with Copa. We fly to Panama City. We couldn't fly to Panama City profitably without an interline agreement with Copa. So that's, that's one example of something that's successful. So that's... That all translates to the bit on the right side of the slide, which indicates in terms of our code share partnerships, we have the, the widest-reaching network available in terms of cities served either by us or with code share. In terms of the 191 destinations served by Air France compared to the 200 by our competitors, when you think of unique destinations served by Air France and KLM, we actually exceed the, the 200.
So the dual hub approach of Charles de Gaulle and Schiphol serves very well in terms of offering maximum choice to the customer, and really, that's what this is all about. So I'll just quickly go around the globe to focus a little bit on some of our alliance strategies. I mentioned Delta, the Blue Skies JV with Virgin Atlantic and Delta. I mean, this is our single most important JV. It drives the majority of our global corporate contracting, which is our highest-yielding revenue, so this is critically important. Delta is the number one carrier by choice and margin for full-service North America. So they're, they're a very important partner in terms of them being a very strong economic partner in the United States. The point of sale, United States, is incredibly important for our profitability. So the partnership with Delta is very important.
We offer them out in Paris and Schiphol and Charles de Gaulle, excellent connectivity beyond Paris. So it's a very complementary relationship, and we both value it very highly. Virgin Atlantic, less so in terms of the relevance of Heathrow versus Schiphol and Charles de Gaulle, but again, very relevant in terms of UK, Europe into North America. Aeromexico, quite a light partnership that works effectively in terms of our services to Mexico City, and WestJet's working nicely in terms of KLM flies to Calgary and WestJet flies to Paris, and we have code share and interline that is successful. Canada is a very good market for us at the moment as well. Exciting news, we've recently renewed our partnership with GOL. GOL delivers a very good quality of customer to our Brazilian services.
Our Brazilian services are all profitable. This was not the case in 2019. So partnership with GOL is important, and it delivers solid eight-figure profitability to our Brazilian P&L. So it's a good partnership. I mentioned Copa briefly. They do very well for us in Panama City, and as part of the GOL partnership with the ABRA umbrella, we've agreed that we will start commercial discussions with Avianca, irrespective of them being in the Star Alliance. So South America is looking interesting for us at the moment. You also would have seen in the media that we've got a new partnership with Etihad. Air France has launched services to Abu Dhabi. Abu Dhabi has a brand-new, effectively a brand-new airport, so it's in its early days.
We only launched service on 30 October, but signs are positive at this stage. So we're gradually expanding our code share, interline, and number of benefits around loyalty with Etihad. So wait and see, we'll let you know in a year's time how that's all going. Asia's quite interesting for us as well. We have sort of two pockets in Asia. We have the joint venture with China Eastern, which is, you know, it is another bedrock partnership. It is, it is a little bit complicated at the moment because of Russian overflights, so we have to fly around Russia, and they can fly over Russia. So we've had to take some time to work out how we're going to settle things in joint venture settlements and who's doing what, but what code can go on what aircraft.
But right now, it's we've reinstated the JV, and it's wait and see. But we're very close to China Eastern. They're a very good partner. The other little dynamic we have is what happens in Singapore. You can see a few carriers on there: Airc alin, Qantas, Garuda, and Bangkok Airways. Singapore is a nicely profitable market for both Air France and KLM and is achieving profitability in excess of 2019. Air France has been able to go from 7 a week to 10 a week, and some of that is off the back of the partnerships that feed our service. So those partnerships, albeit look a bit smaller, are materially profitable for us and feed into the whole equation of our success in long haul. Next slide. So just a little bit of a deep, deep dive on the Atlantic JV, just high level.
We're doing well on the JV, even though we're in the second position. We have the highest growth rate out of the three large Atlantic JVs at 7%, and as you can see on the right-hand side, we've achieved good share in terms of alliance share on the Atlantic by gaining four points, whereas our competitors have not been able to gain the same amount of share that we've been able to. One thing that skews us against Star Alliance is Air Canada being in A++ . It really means it's very hard for us to catch up against that market share simply because of the transatlantic size of Air Canada in the Canadian market, whereas we really only fly from Europe into Canada. They get it both ways with Lufthansa and Air Canada.
That's a bridge that I wouldn't expect us to close anytime soon. I'm going to move on to fleet. I think there are three key drivers that we get with fleet: better financials, the new generation technology, the cost of the plane, the fuel burn, the engine contract, the layout of the plane, the payload range performance. All of these play into a much better economic outcome by investing in fleets to get higher rates of return versus the old gen aircraft. CO2 consumption and fuel burn are very topical at the moment in terms of our sustainability credentials. The new generation widebodies are delivering between 20%-25% reduction in CO2, and the narrowbodies between 18%-22%.
So this is absolutely critical, given where fuel prices will go in the future in terms of mix of SAF and non-SAF fuel products. And the final, final pillar really is when you get a new plane, you get a brand-new interior with the latest innovations. So it allows... Investing in fleet is also a direct, indirect investment in new cabin and new products and allows the rate at which we take planes, also allows us to roll out best-in-class customer service. So just quickly talking about the last five years of fleet procurement, I think everyone is largely aware, who follows the stock in this room, that we did an order in 2019 for 60 A220-300s. This was a standalone order. It wasn't overly competed. It was a take it or leave it order to Airbus.
Pricing was excellent, engine contracts excellent, layout of the aircraft's very efficient, customer experience very high, fuel burn excellent. So this aircraft in Air France service is absolutely key to turning the P&L in Europe, and it already is starting to turn the P&L in Europe. So, that one gets a tick. The A320neo is really a combination of A321neo and A320neo. The Dutch businesses will largely focus on the A321neo, and the Orly business will focus on a mix between A320, A321neo and A320neo. The A321neo is the market leader in terms of unit cost economics in the narrowbody space, so we expect that to be very successful at Transavia Netherlands, to some degree, Transavia France and for KLM.
Once KLM long-haul starts to grow again, the cost of the feed from the A321neo will be very competitive and not easily beatable. Three fifty also is a great part of the future of Air France-KLM. As you can see, we will have up to 99, potentially up to 99, subject to board approval, A350s. We have purchase rights on another 40, so that aircraft could absolutely be the dominant future will absolutely be the dominant future of Air France-KLM. I liken the A350-900 in Air France and KLM service to what the 737-800 is at Ryanair. Everything works, the price is good, fuel burn's good, engine contract's good, layout's super efficient. There's nothing...
That, that aircraft, that aircraft cannot do anything wrong, in my opinion. So, and when you compare it to the 2019 layout of the 777-200 in Air France service, compared to what will be the 2026 delivery cabin of the A330-300 in Air France service, we will get close to 25% reduction in CO2. So this, this aircraft is, leading our economic recovery, but is also essential for, our environmental target trajectory. Quickly on simplification, I'd just like to point out on the right, Air France was basically the Paris Air Show of fleets prior to, sort of the restructuring. So we had endless amounts of layouts, endless amounts of, of fleet types, which just translates into pilot training, engines, a whole lot of things that, drive inefficiency.
The medium-term plan, as you can see, is really to dumb this down to two super efficient types. Triple seven three hundred, it's a very efficient fleet type and is really the gold standard—has been the gold standard for the last 15 years in terms of long-haul efficiency. So that aircraft remains very hard, you know—very hard to beat that. Three fifty-nine hundred does beat it, but again, the age, the age of the triple seven three hundred fleet means it's staying for a while.
I've explained the virtues of the A220-300: great unit cost, optimized layout, good fuel burn, good capital cost, and really take the A320 family at the bottom of the fleet, the A318, A319, put the A220 in there, and then we've got a young fleet of A320 classics, which we'll make a decision in the future as to what we replace them with. Again, Air France has ordered the A350F common cockpit with the rest of the A350 fleet. And that's coming at the end of the decade. That's not soon. So very easy to deal with that. Embraer fleet at Air France, we haven't made a decision just yet as to what to do with that.
For KLM, similar story, except we have the mix of 777, 787, which is common cockpit, so that's fine. Airbus won the latest tender based on NPV and IRR, so that's pretty straightforward as to why we chose the A350. Also, Russian overflight meant we had to circumnavigate Russia. A350-900 has 2.5 hours more range than 787-10 IGW. So in the end, it became an easy decision. I've talked a bit about the A320neo campaign and that aircraft was going to be A321neo at KLM, and that's very straightforward in terms of the optimal low unit cost feeder for the network. A350F, again, aligns with A350 passenger at KLM, so that's a good decision.
The standout here, however, is the E195-E2. Super efficient, very profitable in KLM's European network, and is the margin leader for KLM in terms of European, flights, in terms of EBIT margin. Last slide. Again, same thesis. Transavia is a low-cost carrier, it needs low unit cost. 320 family was a very competitively tendered, campaign against the MAX on price. Engine contract, there is a third-party engine maintenance contract... Sorry, an engine maintenance contract that is for internal and third-party work that contributed to the present value analysis when we purchased the aircraft. So there are multiple silos of value associated with the 320, 321neo campaign that resulted in this choice.
But again, for the slot-constrained airport at Schiphol, so the Transavia Netherlands and KLM, upgauging was a very important thesis in terms of lower unit cost and growing the revenue base in a slot-constrained environment. As Ben mentioned, talked a bit about Orly, Transavia France will take a majority of 320 neos, but 20% of the fleet could end up being 321s on those routes in the Mediterranean in summer, where the airports are slot-constrained. Thank you, Ben.
Thanks, Angus. So, just before we invite the CEOs of the airlines up, just a couple of things here. So we've been very, very laser-focused in trying to simplify what the teams are working on. So as Angus mentioned, a lot of complexity at Air France on every front, starting with the fleet. It's driving, you know, costs that were disproportionately high versus our competitors. So big, big effort, starting with the fleet, all the way down to every customer offering that we have in place. So that I can't underestimate the amount of effort that's gone through and still going on to simplify the operations in the group.
Synergies between KLM and Air France, we are not at the same level as IAG or Lufthansa Group, so that's a big opportunity for us. This, we're putting effort into this. Marjan and her team fully engaged with the Air France teams to see what we can get out of this as quickly as possible. Revenue initiatives, we believe that we have a lot more opportunity in and out of Paris with the size of the market and having up to date only, you know, less than 50% of that market, where the point of sale is actually skewed to France in most of the markets.
So this is a big concentration, a lot of focus on this, and then cost savings, a lot of it coming through fleet and through optimizations of, interiors, et cetera, utilization, and, better asset utilizations throughout the, the rest of the, the operation. So Steven will go through some of the 700+ initiatives we have to achieve, those levers on the left, and it's happening across all business units, and we expect to achieve over EUR 4 billion in structural benefits by 2026. That's what we have in our plans. So move on here to, I'd like to invite Anne Rigail, who is the CEO of Air France, to come up for the, for the next part of the, presentation.
Thanks, Ben. Good afternoon, everyone. To focus on Air France, I can say that Air France's transformation plan is on track since we delivered more than 50% of the ambition till now. First, the network has been widely optimized since 2019, including, by the way, a first phase of restructuring of our domestic network, together with the development of Transavia France, that has already contributed to our result by EUR 350 million. Another key project is intermodality, with a reinforced partnership with, between Air France and SNCF, so the French National Railways, so that now we can propose to our customers, train-plus service, to 41 high-speed train destinations and with a seamless digital experience that we just recently developed with SNCF.
... On the cost side, we implemented a permanent review of our spending. So we use, of course, the bargaining power of the group through joint RFPs, for example, on logistic activities, but a lot more. We also implemented an inflation tracking system in purchasing processes, leading to regular contract renegotiations. And beyond network and spending, we also conducted a complete review of our processes and organization. For example, we strongly reduced our managerial lines in our hub and stations. We completely rebuilt and reorganized our engine workshop building in Orly, now under a single roof. And the last transformation area is about questioning which activities could be either centralized or outsourced, mainly on transactional or non-differentiating activities. So for example, part of our ramp activities were outsourced on our main platforms.
We also deployed a business partner model in support functions, and we relocated a shared financial service in Budapest. But we need to pursue strongly this transformation effort. So we have set up a clear roadmap with lots of new projects based on four pillars that you can see on the screen. The first one is simplification, so we continue to streamline our processes, our organization, our operations to increase our efficiency. Cost optimization, of course, is still a very strong focus. For example, we launched a project called Integrated Operations Planning, which is this: it's consisting in a global, anticipated, and transversal approach on all operational resources, sizing, and planning. We also have projects on revenues, but I will let Henri elaborate on them.
We continue, as you could see on the Le Bourget fleet, to invest on the fleet, and we optimize our capacities through a cabin densification that is bringing a lot. And finally, as you know, we plan a strong change in our domestic model for 2026, with a second phase of domestic network restructuring that Ben just presented to you. I will now leave the floor to Marjan for KLM transformation.
Thank you, Anne. From KLM perspective, we started with Funding Our Journey, and Funding Our Journey is our plan today that links up all the transformation we do today. The main reason we have this in place is because we have a lot of ambitions, of course, business and business operation, and our financial performance needs to be synchronized. Its name, it's a reference to our strategy, and our strategy is called a Frontrunner's Journey. We need to improve, and we are improving every day, the financial health by lowering costs, increase productivity, and prioritize all the decisions we need to make to focus on our customer, our people with technology and sustainability. We made losses during COVID-19, and we have challenges in the Netherlands, like the tight labor market and the inflation.
But KLM has proved in the past, several times in history, that we made the right decisions to be successful, and therefore, I launched this program last year. So we will improve our margins like we did in 2019. So we have three main buckets in this transformation program. It's about increasing revenue, it's about increasing utilization, and therefore, we need to overcome our operational constraints. It means that we need to reduce the shortage of staff, the shortage in operations, and the shortages in engineering and maintenance, and we need to make sure that we improve the fleet health and availability.
Next to this, we will focus on cost and productivity optimization by reducing, of course, absenteeism, and we're working very hard on introduction of lifting aids, but also in our baggage system, but also containerized luggage in our European fleet, and all other kinds of preventive measures needed for those workers that otherwise are absent. We have reintegration officers in place, and of course, we advise on a healthy living way. We are reviewing core and non-core activities, and we are optimizing our real estate portfolio by assessing owned versus leased buildings, reduce the numbers of square meters for office buildings, and optimize hangar capacity. Next to this, of course, we have our strategic initiatives. It's a long list, but it's focused on emission reduction and cost and control. And for example, we will reduce the fuel cost by optimized tooling and AI.
We are really committed to this transformation plan, Funding Our Journey. Anne, I will give you the floor again.
... Thank you, Marjan. So, we will now see how we engage our employees in this group's journey. So at Air France, we believe that the people development and employee satisfaction are key success factors. This is why we have set high standards and priorities in terms of human resources. Of course, social dialogue is our top priority, Ben said it, and we pay particular attention to embark our staff in all decisions. So to illustrate this, we have signed 26 agreements this year, in 2023, across all areas of the company, from the cabin crew CLA to the recent agreement on disability at work, for example.
Despite a strong employee engagement, and we see that the resignation rate at Air France is still well below the national average, we can still do more to increase to improve our Employee Promoter Score. So with local action plans to improve the working conditions, of course, but also by encouraging all initiatives and even and events to to leverage the collective pride of working at Air France that is real. For example, we still celebrate our 90th birthday anniversary. We... Next year, all our teams will be fully committed, and they are they are now fully committed to make our partnership with the Paris 2024 Olympic Games a real success.
On the resources management side, one of our current challenge, as you know, is to have the right people in the right positions, especially in the context of the recovery post-COVID. So in 2023, we managed to recruit more than 2000 employees in all areas of the company, even those where the labor market is really tight. Our strong brand attractiveness is helping. It's a key asset to achieve these plans. As you can see, Air France ranks as third preferred company in France among students, which is good, and if we look at the transport sector, we rank in the third, first position. To enhance mobilities throughout the company, which is important also to solve local overstaffing due to our transformation programs, we also implement more and more training and reskilling, long reskilling programs.
For example, to allow stations, staff to integrate maintenance teams or even cabin crew teams. So finally, we also place diversity and inclusion at the center of the approach to make sure that equal conditions and opportunities are granted to everyone without any discrimination. So, we have strong commitments to promote female talents, and it's not only about Marjan and myself, with already close to 40% women in executive positions. We also work to provide opportunities to people with disability and to recruit employees in underprivileged areas. I will let Marjan describe the HR challenges at KLM.
So with two female CEOs, diversity is not solved, eh? That's what we always say today. Our people are, of course, the key of our success, and therefore, we are proud that we have renewed our CLAs with cockpit, with cabin, and with ground for a two-year period. We are in a difficult tight labor market with inflation, after a COVID period, with difficult operation waiting lines last year. Hope we solved that all, but the first summer after COVID, it was a bit difficult, and still, we concluded on labor agreements with our colleagues, and that gives perspective and, of course, an employee engagement. This is the sheet that belongs there.
Each year, we will roll out our KLM employee survey, and this survey helps to understand how our colleagues are feeling and about their overall experience within KLM, allowing to take effective initiatives and action to enhance the employee experience. The scores are improving since COVID. The scores are improving despite the operational disruptions last year. Our engagement score today is 79%, and that's above benchmarks. 80%, 81% of the people feels happy in their jobs, and it is important that our colleagues within KLM feel recognized and valued, and we are working with different and different employee improvement plans within the company to improve better and better within the divisions every day. We also invest in lots in physical demanding jobs, like, for example, baggage handling and platform handling.
So we achieve to have already in 2030, full electrification on the ground. Today, we are at 60%-70%, and we will introduce lift equipment in baggage hall. Today, it's 50%. Next year, April, it will be at 100% as well. And then the last part, of course, diversity and inclusion. We are never satisfied. We are not satisfied today, but it is our ambition to be a sustainable and diverse employer. We have targets in place, but we have a lot of groups within KLM pushing us every day to improve and improve, such as Over the Rainbow, Connecting Colors, Young KLM, Women on Board. And we are proud we are still an attractive employer. We are in the top 5 in the Netherlands, and we are still number one within the management trainees. So we trained as well our corporate recruiters.
It's very important today to have an unbiased selection, and we focus day after day on diversity because it will lead to more inclusion. Thank you. Ben, you will take over.
All right. Thank you, Anne. Thank you, Marjan. We're doing a lot of this back and forth 'cause we didn't expect this room to be so full, so we had to do some last-minute adjustments. But that wasn't the original plan. And yes, we've got two great CEOs running our two main brands. And I keep trying to tell everybody, and not everybody listens, that we're so lucky that the best people that were qualified for these jobs just happened to be women. So... And it just happened, the two of them at the same time. But anyway, both Anne and Marjan, I think, are a great inspiration, and we're hoping that that, in a few years, does not have to be something we talk about.
But we're very lucky that we've got two of the best CEOs in Europe. On to the next slide here. We've got three awesome brands as well. You know, with the simplification, we've pulled out the two that were not adding any value, so Hop and Joon, so that the brand offering we have in France is really clear. You know, it's we don't have to explain what Air France is. When you have Air and France in your brand, it's pretty straightforward. And of course, showcasing the best of France around the world.
This, you know, we're seeing a lot of traction on this front as we, as we further, align and, and, you know, concentrate what our messaging is to our key customer base, and we're seeing that. We had this, this last summer, the highest load factor in the history of Air France in, our premium cabins, in particular, La Première. La Première is now profitable. I don't think there are any other carriers, I don't know their numbers, that could, that could claim that. So we're really proud of that, and we are going to be investing in that product, and at the end of next year, you'll see, a fantastic new offering that will be, will be implemented and rolled out. KLM, you know, KLM is a pioneer, a great pioneer.
You know, Singapore Airlines at Changi and Emirates at Dubai, those, you know, those market and those models were all copied from what KLM invented 40, 50 years ago. And that model keeps getting refined. The terminal is great. There's still a lot more we can do, but please don't forget that this was invented in our group in Amsterdam. And then Transavia, we've got this whole new opportunity with the flexibility we now have in France to grow the fleet, to fly it domestically, to fly anywhere else in Europe. So we're. You know, this is changing.
Now, it's not only a low cost, it is also we need to ensure that the, the new, expanded, potential market, base does have, that we have the products they're looking for. And with the link into, into Orly, this, Air France, Air France-KLM, brand can, really take off. So here, just, perhaps a little bit more detail on what I just said. So Paris, we have the, we have the dual hub gateway, focus. So we wanna make sure we're strong, not only on the, origin destination, Paris, but also, ensure that we get, our fair share and take advantage and power our global network with feed traffic. And then, of course, Amsterdam being a smaller, O&D, steer a little bit further toward a, a connection, model.
The feeder in Paris, of course, we have challenges because of the cost structure here, but with the A220s, that's becoming more profitable. Amsterdam, where it works quite well, further refining with the Embraer 195. And then this hybrid corporate low-cost carrier, which is Transavia, which normally I would, you know, shy away from any, you know, any use of the word hybrid, hybrid leisure or corporate. But the fact that this carrier, at least in France, is based at Orly Airport, is something extremely unique, and it is very, very valuable for us. It is taking, you know, a lot of effort by some, by an excellent team to put this in place. Big investment on our part to completely refleet Transavia.
The results, when you look at the results on its own, of course, it's, it doesn't look so great financially, but you have to take in place what Air France would have been losing if we were to occupy those slots. We don't mix those two together. What is the penalty that Transavia is taking? Because it is bearing the cost that Air France would have had to have, you know, taken on if those slots were still operated by Air France. So we are moving as quickly as possible to get those slots away from Transavia and to move that capacity, as I mentioned earlier, out of the French domestic market, to European destinations, which are much more profitable, and of course, North Africa, where the competitors are quite weak.
So this, you know, it's Flying Blue, as I show up here on the right, is a major part of the plan. Then a lot of alignment on the bottom here between price-sensitive leisure, price-sensitive corporate, and then premium leisure corporate, premium leisure corporate, and leisure, sorry, luxury, you know, with KLM and with Air France, we have a lot of alignment on quite a few of these segments. Then we have a small luxury component, which I mentioned at Air France with La Première, and then we have Transavia that is our low cost, and out of Orly, there'll be a slight, a slight hybrid component to that, and we are introducing Transavia Holidays as a actual branded product, which we've got a lot of experience in.
It's not a new type of concept, but one that we think we can further further leverage. So we'll do another switch again, and we'll come up come up next.
Thank you. We've been investing in our brand and services, both on the ground and on board. We have already seen some successes. As you can see, our Skytrax worldwide ranking keeps on improving year after year. In 2023, we were voted best airline in Western Europe for the third consecutive year, and we hope it will continue. To achieve this ambition of improving global Air France customer experience, we have built a strong roadmap around four pillars. The pillars you can see on the screen: the first one is to capitalize on the attractiveness of our brand. Second one is to focus on the premiumization across all cabins. Third one is to achieve operational excellence, and the last one is to invest for the future to prepare the customer experience of tomorrow.
So let's now dive into each of those priorities. So considering of, our brand, we want to make it, of course, even more desirable. So we are leveraging our unique French heritage to showcase how Air France embodies the French elegance and art de vivre. We differentiate ourselves thanks to the premium customer experience that we can offer to our customers, and we also take industry-leading sustainability commitments in our Air France ACT platform, because we are convinced that tomorrow, and even today, customers choose their airline also based on, its action to reduce its carbon footprint. Lastly, we have, as I said earlier, unique opportunity to make our brand alive, with the celebration of the nineteenth years anniversary, but also through our partnership with the Olympic and Paralympic Games next summer.
Our brand also relies on our first class cabin, La Première, which is among the best first class in the world because it was rewarded by many prizes. So we keep on investing to offer the best service to our passengers. And Air France is currently designing a completely new La Première travel cabin, which will enter into service beginning of 2025. This future La Première suite will be the longest in the market, and we definitely aim to position it as the best in the world. So strong ambition on this one. We work of course to improve our customer experience at every step of their journey, and not only in La Première.
So we invest and upgrade our lounges in Paris-Charles de Gaulle, our main platform, but also in San Francisco, in Montreal, and even four more lounges abroad to come. We are proposing new services, like the door to airport luggage handling with our partner Allthew ay, and we are currently developing a new concierge service. And this premiumization continues on board with new cabin standards. We are currently deploying our new business cabin with a door on more and more aircraft, so we are able to cover more and more destinations. We are also upgrading the experience in premium economy with new recliner seats, much more comfortable, and improved service. But our customers, they also expect a taste of French art de vivre and also, of course, French gastronomy.
So we welcome on board 18 Michelin-starred chefs that design exclusive menus for Air France. We also, because it is totally mandatory today, invest a lot in Wi-Fi and a new in-flight entertainment. But those investments in the product, in the premiumization, they only make sense if we can deliver the basics and if the basics are in place. So indeed, a strong and seamless operational performance is what our customer expect first and what they deserve most. So first, we must be able, of course, to deliver our flight schedule. A lot has been done lately in the past years to support the activity post-COVID ramp up, so not an easy task.
For instance, we structurally increased the number of spare aircraft, to be more robust in a context that we all know of, supply chain tensions. Our recruitment plan aims at securing additional crew with a lot of hiring at the moment, and also ground resources, especially in maintenance. The way we design our flight schedule also has been fine-tuned, fine-tuned in the last years to improve our on-time performance, so to better integrate all the operational constraints...
At the same time, we need to ensure our passenger on a smooth journey, so a lot has been done with our airport partners in Paris and other airports, and with the authorities of course, in terms of staffing, notably at border control, with more police officers, because it was a huge issue after COVID crisis, and with more automated border control machines that are now accessible to a lot of nationalities. Investments have also been made in terms of infrastructure, and I'm thinking of new luggage sorter, additional capacities to be more robust, for instance.
Beyond those action plans, I can assure you that all Air France teams are totally mobilized to secure operations for the great challenge that is ahead of us, and promise I won't say it again, the Paris Olympic and Paralympic Games, because it will be an operational challenge. Now, as you know, aviation is a capital-intensive industry, and the decision we make today have long-term consequences. We must be sure that the products we design today will meet the expectations of the travelers of tomorrow, especially with regards to the environmental and societal evolutions. The push towards a net zero emission is forcing us airlines to rethink our business model and implement viable solutions to accelerate the transition. We heard a lot, Ben and Angus, about the fleet renewal.
Air France is investing over EUR 1 billion every year to acquire those new generation aircraft. In terms of sustainable fuel, with the incorporation mandate, but also the voluntary mandates, we are, with KLM, the first user of sustainable fuel within the industry for the second year, and our goal, as you know, is to reach 10% of sustainable fuel incorporation by 2030, which is a big ambition. We also optimize the CO2 footprint of our operations, thanks to eco-piloting, of course, and our pilots aim at delivering a lot on this. And the development of intermodality and sustainable catering also are part of the transition strategy, and we clearly see that our customer expect us to be very proactive on those topics.
Beyond decarbonization, ESG commitments affect all other aspects of our customer relationship, from the caring attitude towards travelers with special needs, to the progressive integration of societal evolutions, like neutral gender, that are in our customer interactions. Now, I let Marjan deliver the KLM action plan on the customer experience.
Yes, we do a lot the same. We work together closely, so I can accelerate on some topics, but the brands are different. We have two brands, and flying is our passion, and safety is our license to operate. In the recent period where I entered KLM again, after working for the Dutch Railways for nine years, I really experienced this in the company, and it's really what unites all the KLM employees. We connect the world. We connect the world with that same passion every day, and we create memorable experience for our customers and for our people who loves traveling. We always need to say, we are the oldest airline with their original name still today, after 104 years. So we remain Dutch at heart, and our customers appreciate us.
They appreciate the customer intimacy, the friendliness of the crew, our reliability, and the innovative spirit, and it's our strategy to run this great airline in this way. At the same time, as Anne already mentioned, we are at a crossroads. We want to take responsibility, not for ourselves, but for the generations after us, and that's why we pioneer sustainable aviation, and that's not what we do alone. We work closely together with a lot of partners. A lot of partners, like for example, as you see in the picture, the Delft University of Technology, and we are researching the future of flying and how to reach zero aviation, we hope, at least one day.
And how to reduce noise, but also how to reduce weight on board, optimize boarding processes, manage passenger flows, use the robots at the airports and the drones at engineering and maintenance. That's what we do, at least today. And of course, you recognize this picture as well, because digitization and social media, including customer experience, are part of KLM brand. Data is the new gold. That's what we say for years already. And within KLM, and of course within Air France, we have a lot of data. We have a huge potential of data we use, and we always want to be where customers want us to be. So that's why, for many years already, KLM has been a front runner in customer service on social platforms for twenty-four hours a day in nine languages....
If you look at enhancing our customer experience, we will invest in our products. We will recover operational stability, strengthen our hub, and invest in our future. If you look closer, and you look at the products we have today, it's the renewal of the fleet, like Angus said already. It will have a positive impact on customer satisfaction. But what we do today is have our new business class with direct aisle access on our Triple Seven implemented. We also installed a Premium Comfort class. It was new for KLM. It's an entirely new class with its own cabin, offering a new type of seats and distinctive service and catering concept. We had great expectations, but what we see today, we see a really high customer appreciation, and we are very proud of this.
Furthermore, of course, we need to upgrade Wi-Fi, we need more stability. We are investing in this, and we add capacity. But tech next to this, we invest in our lounges, and we upgraded our lounges in Toronto and in Houston. And of course, we will invest in our own Crown Lounge at the Schiphol hub. We did the upgrade already, but we will have a full renovations the next coming years. And of course, customer And of course, customer experience is strongly linked to operational performance, and we need to work on operational performance. That what we did to overcome our constraints last years, when we see long lines, waiting long lines in, in the summer, mainly at security of Schiphol. But this is solved, and we focus on operational stability, solving supply chain issues, and look at sufficient crew.
We hired already more than 800 people at ground services. We hired already more than 300 people at engineering and maintenance, and we increased cockpit capacity, we increased training, and we even hire, for a short period of time, retired captains to come back. Of course, next to this, we will invest in reducing our SAF, in reducing the fleet, with the CO2 reduction. We invest in sustainability because it is our future. It's not only about SAF, which is the 1%, Anne already mentioned, and our promise in 2030, but it is also working closely with, for example, Eurostar, to at least have block seats when our customers go to Paris, when our customers go to Brussels and have a transfer air and rail. Besides this, we have the sustainability catering.
We invest a lot in reducing waste with artificial intelligence. We reduced. We implemented new models to reduce waste by 30%-40%, and we did this together with the full AI community in the Netherlands. Next to this, we introduce, as well as Anne mentioned, the gender neutrality in all our channels. Ben?
Okay. Okay, thanks, Marjan. Moving on just quickly to Transavia on the same axis. So I think here, maybe just a bit more time on the Orly, and how we're going through this transformation of this extremely, let's say, well-positioned asset that we've got. So there are many other cities around the world, airlines that have positions at close in slot-constrained airports. So Delta Air Lines at New York LaGuardia, got American Airlines at Washington Reagan, easyJet at London Gatwick, you know, the former Alitalia at Milan Linate, et cetera.
And our teams have spent endless hours saying: How can we position Transavia in what way, shape, or form at Orly, so that we can really knock this out of the park with all the lessons learned through the other experiences that some of our competitors have had in other markets? Obviously, Paris is extremely unique. The airport is unique, the history of the airport is unique, but as I mentioned earlier, Paris is the largest market in Europe. The airport's well-situated, and we've got 50% of the slots, and we have Flying Blue. So it is a lengthy transition period. We've got new planes coming. We have to train up with pilots, and it is...
You know, there is a big investment, but once we've got the pieces in place, we should be. My expectation is this should be one of the biggest profit drivers we have in the group. But it is gonna take some time, and as I said, we have not to date incorporated the benefits of Transavia that have already been achieved because of the reduction in losses of Air France. We don't attach that into Transavia as of yet. So just one more slide here on Transavia. So the fleet growth. There's some slight delays on the NEOs, but not so bad. They are in line with our pilot training, so we're able to handle that.
Flying Blue, we are tweaking a little bit to make sure it is interesting for the customer base that we're trying to attract at Orly, and how can we make that very unique? 'Cause as you know, the other low-cost carriers in Europe have not got a full loyalty program that is global the way we've got. So next up is Henri, who is EVP of Marketing, which includes Flying Blue, and he'll take us through the next part of the presentation for today.
Thank you, Ben. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and my name is Henri de Peyrelongue, EVP Marketing for Air France-KLM. Thank you for being today for the presentation of Flying Blue, which is the loyalty program of Air France-KLM. Today, we will show you how Flying Blue contributes to the financial performance of the group, and how we plan to further develop it. Also, we'll share with you some exciting news regarding the recent transaction that enabled us to raise EUR 1.5 billion of quasi-equity financing, thanks to the miles business. So Flying Blue is one of the largest loyalty program in Europe, one of the most successful program in Europe, with more than 40 airline partners, more than 100 non-airline partners, 13 co-branded cards, which is the largest amount of co-branded card for loyalty program in Europe.
Our 40 airline partners, with whom our customers can earn and burn miles, are ensuring a global footprint for Flying Blue. With an enhanced portfolio on non-airline partners, Flying Blue is where the customer is. They can earn miles when they don't fly in their daily life. So, now let's see some elements regarding Flying Blue. Particularly for the customer base of Flying Blue. Flying Blue has 20 million, 22 million members, of which nearly 60% have been active over the past three years. By essence, a loyalty program is... has a strong footprint in the market, and this is the reason why one-third of our customers are based in France and 12% in the Benelux.
Nevertheless, we are very proud to have 55% of our customers in international market, with a strong presence in Europe, outside France and Benelux, and also in the U.S., even with the presence of our partners' loyalty program of Delta Sky Miles. Regarding the attractiveness of the program, I think that the figures which is shown in the presentation, in the slide, of one new member every six seconds, speaks for itself. So the question is now: What is the contribution of this 22 million customer? Flying Blue is a loyalty program, but also a very powerful business engine, and I'm very pleased to share with you, for the first time, the contribution of Flying Blue in the result of the group. In 2022, Flying Blue generated 15% of the operating result of Air France-KLM group.
This result is mainly driven by partnership, who provides direct revenues to Flying Blue, and because we sell them miles. I will come back later on our strategy regarding the partnership. But Flying Blue is a loyalty program which drives customer behavior. Flying Blue members fly very frequently. They represent 41% of the total coupon sold on Air France-KLM, and 47% of the revenue of Air France and KLM, which, by the way, shows that Flying Blue members pay on average more than a non-Flying Blue member. And the combination of higher frequency and higher fares paid by the based, the customer base of Flying Blue, drives more than EUR 1 billion revenue, which is incorporated in the total revenue of Air France-KLM. So definitively, Flying Blue is a profitable business we want to grow.
The contribution of Flying Blue to the result of the group, and also the growth perspective, has been recognized through the transaction led by Apollo. This transaction allowed us to raise, as I said, EUR 1.5 billion of accounted equity. This has been financed by Apollo. We have created a new entity which contains the contracts of the partners and also the trademark of Flying Blue. Other assets, like the customer database, remains within the airlines. This new entity will be the sole issuer of the miles, but it doesn't change anything for the customer. On a pure business perspective, what we have done is we have distinguished the customer program and the miles activity. This miles activity, which is managed by the new entity, is scalable to participate to any new opportunity, consolidation opportunity.
So now let's go to the strategy to develop Flying Blue. We want to develop this profitable business, and for this, we have a strategy based on three priorities. First priority, align the program to our customer-centric and sustainable goals. We want to reward our customers for choosing us, for choosing our partners, and also for making responsible travel decision. We are the first airline to reward customer when they voluntarily buy sustainable aviation fuel with XP, which are the status points, which allows the members to get higher tier and higher benefit. And just to share with you some figures, since we have launched this new initiative, the SAF take-up rate has increased by 800% among our Flying Blue members, which shows the real appetite of these customers for such an initiative.
We want, number two, we want to improve the reward capabilities of the program by, for instance, proposing cash and miles to buy ancillaries, like seat selection, luggage, or lounge access. But also we want to target specific segment, like U.S. points-to-miles conversion market, which is very lucrative and very dynamic. And what we do is, we want to leverage the attractiveness of Paris and Amsterdam destinations that these customers in the U.S. have. And, by this, we really develop a new revenue streams. Number three, we want to engage customer, the customer, in their daily life by enlarging non-airline partnerships. Now, let's focus on the partnerships, and particularly the most recent development we had.
First, we have launched a new co-branded card in Canada with Brim, which is a fintech company, and we plan to have also to enlarge our co-branded portfolio in countries like Germany and the U.K. We have renewed our group-wide contract with Hertz, including Transavia, and we have also launched a partnership with Etihad, with whom our customers can take advantage of burn and earn opportunities on new destinations. So we enlarge the capabilities of the program to take some new benefits. We also enlarge our portfolio beyond travel, for instance, with Amazon, a lifestyle partnership where customers who buy online with Amazon can earn miles. And we have also signed a very innovative partnership with Bilt, by which customers can really gain miles by paying their rent.
So as you can see, partnerships create a lot of value for Air France and KLM, for Flying Blue, for the consumer and the customer of Air France-KLM, and I will finish with, the trajectory we have for this partnership. Our strategy is very clear: we want to grow the partnerships, and when I speak partnership, it's all type of partnership. It's finance partnership, it's, airline and non-airline. We want to grow this partnership, the revenue related to the partnership, at an average of +8% per year. So in a conclusion, Flying Blue is a profitable and asset-light business. It is also a resilient business. We will grow further to contribute to the group financial trajectory. Thank you. Ben?
Okay, thanks, Henri. So maybe just one extra point to what Henri just mentioned is our, you know, number one partner, which is, Delta Air Lines. Those of you that follow the U.S. market may be aware that they have the most successful loyalty program in the United States. So we do have a great partner that shares their learnings with us. Different market here in Europe, but this, I think, is a big plus for us, that is an advantage that we're trying to leverage as best we can. So just two topics here that I'll mention or I'll go through now. We've got two great businesses that are great assets that not every big legacy carrier has got.
First one is our cargo business unit, as we call it. We've actually got three brands for it. It's one of the ones we need to simplify. So we've got Air France Cargo, KLM Cargo, and we have Martinair as well. So this, sorry, Marjan, we haven't got a project yet, but it's, I'm just mentioning it here. So the average annual growth rate that we're expecting through to 2033, based on the order books that are there for MRO, is about 3%. You can see next generation will take up a much larger portion of the MRO demand, it's natural, by 2033.
Of course, that by default means that the MRO focus will be on next generation aircraft engines and aircraft components. We all have... Everybody who's involved in the MRO business got pressures, the supply chain and staffing challenges, nothing unique to us. So it's not causing us to be on a lower or higher playing a competitive playing field, but it is definitely putting pressure on all of us who are in the MRO business. So we've got a lot of history and experience in MRO. We have 3,000 aircraft that we support, 200+ competitors, 200+ customers around the world, EUR 3 billion in revenue, over 12,000 employees.
We have an order book, which is almost EUR 9 billion, and of that, 1.2 billion are in additional external revenues. We've got... We've been investing in all of the next-generation products, so the LEAP-1A, LEAP-1B, the GEnx for the 787, we're doing in Amsterdam. We've got the Pratt 1500 G there, powering our A220s, and we have the Trent XWB that are powering our A350s. We are going to be able to do all of that in-house or in partnership with the, with the particular manufacturer's components. Next generation, so we've decided to move forward on all the aircraft types that we're going to be operating for the A220s, the A320 neo, 737 MAX.
So the MAX, obviously, we're not—we haven't ordered, but we have such a big base from the last generation that we've decided to move forward to support the NGs, sorry, the MAXs, A350 and 787. And on predictive maintenance, we're continuing to invest there. The operating margin of our MRO has grown 1.8 percentage points since the third quarter in 2021. So that's something we're quite pleased with. Here in cargo, obviously, we had a fantastic run during COVID, where the belly capacity around the world was significantly constrained, so we were lucky that we did have full freighters at our disposal.
So we did, we did take full advantage of that, and we scored, well above some of our competitors because we did, have that fleet in-house. So the capacity is, almost going back to 2019 levels, but, the, the yields are still well above what we saw in 2019. You know, go forward, demand still, still remains a little bit, uncertain, so we've modeled out, high, base, and low, scenarios. And with the new order book we have for, full freighters, the size of the fleet that we're looking to introduce is about the same with the new A350 full freighters. We do have flexibility to switch those to, to passenger aircraft if we feel that that's not the optimal, capital expenditure.
So we have got that flexibility, but our intention is to have a fleet of eight Airbus A350s before the end of the decade, split between the two airlines, and based in Schiphol and in Amsterdam, respectively. Sorry, CDG and Schiphol. CDG is the number two European cargo hub, so very close to the number one, which is Frankfurt, and Schiphol is number three. We have 120+ direct intercontinental connections that are served either with full freighters or with the belly capacity that we have on our wide bodies. We do have a big, big fleet of Boeing 777-300ERs.
We have 59 of these aircraft, and of course, that is, the wide-body aircraft that, is the most, most efficient, most powerful passenger aircraft in terms of cargo belly capacity. So we're really, we're really happy, and that really helped us with that fleet. And as Angus mentioned, even though it's not a brand-new A350 or 787, the economics on the 777 are still very, very strong for us. And some of you may know that Air France was the launch customer for the 777-300ER, so a lot of the specifications, that were put in there were optimized for the Air France, Air France network. So EUR 1.5 billion in revenues, for the, for the cargo, division.
So moving forward to 2023 with the new fleet, that will support our SAF ambitions and our customers, of course, extremely important for them. And industry-leading innovation programs, moving as fast as we can to get more business direct and to make sure that we're ahead of our competitors when it comes to innovation. Here on sustainability, you know, very, very big focus in Europe and particularly in the Netherlands and in France. So this puts a lot of pressure on us, more so than some of our competitors. But on the positive side, we will lead the way in sustainable aviation with that pressure, with that support, with that alignment with the key stakeholders in the two main jurisdictions in which we operate.
So standard three levers that airlines have to improve their environmental footprint. Fleet renewal, as Angus showed, we have a lot of new airplanes on order. Those decisions have been made. The pricing that we've negotiated, both on the airframes and the engine contracts, are best in class. Sustainable aviation fuel, we've secured well over a third of our 2030 requirements, and we're putting in place all the operational measures that will get us to our targets to be able to be -30% CO2 versus 2019 and 2030. So here on this slide, you can see we only had 5% next generation aircraft in 2019, and that'll grow to 81% in 2030, based on the fleet order book that we have today.
CO2 emissions on the A220s are less than 20% of the A318, A319 family, and the A320neo CO2 emissions down 15% from current generation, and the A350 is less than 25%. Big reductions in NOx and big reductions in noise. Noise, of course, extremely important to the region around Schiphol Airport and Orly Airport. Okay. Here, Anne briefly mentioned this, but I'll bring it up again, is very proud to say in 2023, 2022, we were the number one SAF user in the entire world, more than any other airline. Even though, we make up a lot, we are... In terms of users of fossil fuels, we are not number one. So we were- we achieved that in 2022.
We are going to achieve that in 2023. So in 2022, we used 17% of the global production, and in 2023, we're going to achieve 16%. So great statistics here. We don't talk about it enough, but we should. We are very proud of those achievements to show that we are really confident we can reach our commitments in 2030 and 2050, where we've committed to be net zero carbon. And as I mentioned, go to the next slide here, you can see we've already sourced over one-third of our SAF needs for 2030 through the partnerships and contracts we've signed with all these companies.
So now, on to Steven Zaat, our CFO, for his presentation, which is really important for you guys, I'm sure. And he'll...
Good afternoon, everyone. I'm very happy to see you with such a big numbers. There are 70 people online altogether, and with almost 100... More than 100 people here, I think we have a great audience. I see my Paris friends very often here in Paris, usually to visit, to see my, let's say, my London friends, I have to cross over the channel. So it's good to see that you also come once to our home base here in Paris. It has been four years ago that we had our last Investor Day.
I was not yet at this position, but if I would have been here, and if I would have predicted the future, what would come over three months, I think you would have called a shrink and to ask me to get out of this room. The good news is that despite all this, we kept our plan for the midterm, and we will come today with a new financial ambition. Before we move to the future, I would like to come back for the very, very last time on the previous years and all the challenges which we actually overcame, the last, let's say, three years. But at the end, it paved the way to the new financial ambitions which we have today. So we went through the deepest crisis ever in our history or in our industry, and also, of course, for our company.
It had a significant impact on our net result and, of course, also on our equity. I think we restored it quicker than we thought it ourselves. I can tell you when we presented our plans in July 2021 to the board in restoring our equity, we didn't have in mind that we would be already today at a positive equity. How did we do it? We did two capital increases, which brought more than EUR 3 billion. We did several quasi-equity financing with Apollo, and also one with the market, which brought another EUR 3.5 billion, and we just signed two weeks ago to deal with Apollo, on which we are very proud. Last but not least, and we sometimes forget that, we brought already EUR 2 billion in net result in the last seven quarters to our equity.
I'm proud to say here that we restored the equity in 2023, actually three years after we came into this difficult situation. We announced four years ago the transformation, and we continued the transformation. I was very happy that I could join the Air France team in the beginning at this transformation. We saved Air France and KLM together, more than EUR 2 billion already, at the end of 2022. I will show you later, we have improved our relative cost competitiveness situation compared to the competition, which is also the way we are facing the future, where we will see that we will make decent margins to restore, let's say, our profitability. On liquidity, we never came into any liquidity crisis. We had always EUR 8.5 billion cash at hand.
We had EUR 8 billion COVID-related aid from the state, but we were very quickly actually by paying it back, and also that was not so far in our trajectory so fast. EUR 8.1 billion we did in refinancing, and we had two credit facilities of more than EUR 2 billion, all quicker than at least what I expected. Then on the investments, I know you don't like it in this room, and but what we have seen that if the economy turns down, that we are able to reduce immediately our CapEx and our investments level. So we reduced it, always below the EUR 2 billion, even one time close to EUR 1 billion, and we continued, and I think that is important, to phase in next-generation aircraft.
So we didn't build on a liability for the future, and I'm happy to say, and it was also presented by Ben, that we have now more than 20% of our fleet is of next-generation aircraft. Ben explained where we are. If you look Air France-KLM towards the other European groups, this one shows actually what all this transformation brings. And look at Air France. Air France increased their margin with almost 8%, getting close to British Airways, which reduced their margins since 2019 and ahead of Lufthansa. I included here also the logistic part, and you see that Air France is already ahead of Lufthansa airline, including the logistics. So very promising and building to this restoration of our margins. So this creates actually a foundation for a new financial ambition. First, we continue.
We will continue with our cost effectiveness, and we will continue with our transformation at Air France, at KLM, and at the group level. We continue with our disciplined capital allocation, supporting the so important sustainability trajectory, and we continue by optimizing our balance sheet and to optimizing also our capital structure. I will show you later, I'm very happy that we now also have a rating and being, and being able actually to, get, two ratings. Sorry, Lauren. I'm happy to have two ratings, being able to also benefit from lower finance cost in the market. So let's start with the cost effectiveness and the continuation of this transformation efforts, which at the end results in a higher EBIT. This picture was already shown by Ben, and let's, let's say, how did we went through this transformation? First, we started at Air France before COVID.
We went very quickly into a COVID situation, and we went actually deeper than what we expected first. KLM reduced very quickly their cost, so they did it very quickly, and they now start since last year with funding our journey, bringing also structural savings in place. We have more than 700 projects, and as Ben said it, it is with a laser focus. There are very small projects, so we reduce 2, 3, 4, 5 FTEs, but we did also very big things, like the domestic France. We have three teams daily steering this transformation, and all our three CEOs are fully involved in steering this transformation. It is a key element of our success of the last two years. We will continue with this very tiny, small projects, which together bring a lot to our P&L.
But we will also are preparing ourselves for bold moves because I think both go hand in hand with each other. If you look what it brings in the coming years, you see it will bring from, let's say, the beginning of this year till the end of next year, it will bring another EUR 3 billion. And with funding our journey, which will especially bring savings in the years 2024, 2026, you will see we will bring another EUR 1.4 billion. This is necessary to counterbalance the inflation and, of course, to improve our cost basis compared to the competition. This picture for me actually shows that we are not talking about a quick win or anything. You see that our staff base in 2028 will be lower than in 2019.
At the same time, we will grow our capacity and our production with more than 20%. So the productivity is actually growing in our company by more than 20%. So, again, our transformation is not just a quick win; it is structural improvements leading to higher margins. Now, we reach the slide, and I think, this is the slide which everybody want to see because we have a lot of slides: improving our customer, improving sustainability, improving the cost basis. But what does it now at the end bring to the bottom line? I already got a lot of questions over the WhatsApp and SMS, and this EUR 2 billion is compared to where we are today. So compared to 2023. Let's start at Air France and KLM.
KLM turned around its EBIT margins in the years 2014-2019. Air France followed up between 2019 and 2023, and now we aim for both airlines, another EUR 700 million in terms of EBIT improvement. Then go to Transavia. We know that the results were just slightly positive in the third quarter. There is, as already explained by Ben, a lot of potential here. We had the rapid growth of Orly for Transavia, and when the routes need to mature because they took over the slots of Air France, and we had, in the second quarter, especially, a lot of operational and fleet issues. So a lot of potential in Transavia, where we will see an EBIT improvement of EUR 400 million in the coming five years. How do we do that?
We will stabilize the performance, we will influx new fleet, and we will grow our ancillary revenues. For instance, we will start our hand luggage, paid hand luggage, in the next year. Then engineering and maintenance, let's say my love baby. We will improve with EUR 200 million our profitability. How do we do that? We were especially hampered at this moment by a tight labor market and by all kinds of problems in the supply chains. We have the contracts in place for the next generation aircraft. So actually, we will just have to grow this, the, these contracts, and we will further get more contracts.
We have a partnership now also with Airbus, and just by maturing this fleet under contract, you will have an organic growth, which will lead to this additional EUR 200 million in the coming five years. The question is, of course, how are you going to reach that? So first, the unit cost, EUR 450 million, continuation of the unit cost initiatives and the productivity. EUR 430 million in terms of fleet renewal and sustainability. This is actually our self-help. It's just we influx these planes, they will bring lower fuel burn, it will increase our ownership cost, but the net benefit is at the bottom line, EUR 430 million in the coming four, five years in Air France, in KLM, and in Transavia. The third pillar is the revenue initiative.
Henri explained very well that we have a lot of potential in Flying Blue, and we already built on that in the last four years. With putting this at the group and actually exploring more opportunities with our Flying Blue program, that will bring another revenue stream, which is very, very profitable. At the same time, we will grow further our ancillary revenues. On Transavia, as explained, we can still do much more on ancillary revenues, which will bring money on the bottom line and also on Air France and KLM. We will, for instance, go to dynamic pricing of the ancillary revenue. A seat, a selected seat will not be the same price today as it will be in the peak summer. A very important driver for our profitability is the operational and business optimization. Let's start with the business optimization.
Ann just announced it already. We are going with Air France from Orly to Charles de Gaulle, which brings EUR 80 million in bottom line. 2022 and 2023 were not the best years in operational performance. If we just go back to the levels where we were in 2019, that will immediately improve our profitability. KLM, as we said several times, is still operating with the brakes on, as they say it themselves. It may be a little bit a Dutch saying, and as we know, Transavia also had their complications in the second and the third quarter. So just bringing the operations back, and we need for that some staffing, we will bring another EUR 450 million, plus the business optimization, which we continue. And as already explained, EUR 230 million mainly coming from organic growth.
If you look at these initiatives, they are actually everywhere. They are in Air France, they are in KLM, they are in Transavia, and part is on engineering and maintenance, especially on the organic growth. What is good to see is that we don't bet on one horse. It's not only improving Air France, it's not only improving KLM. We will improve all business segments in the five years to come. And it's also good to see is that everybody's benefiting from this new fleet, everybody's working on the unit goals, and we have everywhere revenue initiatives. So all in all, a very balanced picture, and which we will follow and track in the years to come. Always a favorite topic for you all is the hedge policy, especially afterwards. Everybody can tell me what has been the best hedge policy in place.
For us, it's just a risk management. So what we want to do, we want to slow down the impact of any fuel price spike. We have seen that the geopolitical environment has been going more and more unstable, also having an impact on the fuel price... And as we see now that our capacity is getting more and more stable, so the capacity growth is actually not that high anymore as what we have seen, of course, in the build of during COVID. We are now planning to extend our hedge policy with two quarters, so we are not anymore hedged for four quarters, but we will be hedged for six quarters.
And at the same time, we keep the 70% in the first two quarters, which is higher than what we had before COVID, to make sure that we are not impacted severely by a fuel price hike or spike. Sorry. So an increased maturity of two quarters and at the same time, the, let's say, the total exposure will be hedged for one year consumption for around 70%, where we were closer to 50%. So I think also a way to reduce volatility in our profit and loss. Then the second pillar, which we will continue, is the disciplined capital allocation and supporting still our sustainability trajectory. Let's first start at the capacity. So the capacity will grow moderately with 4%-5%. It will be a very disciplined growth.
If there's any downturn, we can quickly phase out old and mature planes, and we will grow where the profit is. So we will grow, especially on the long haul. We will grow further on Transavia. As Ben explained, we will further increase our activity at Orly for Transavia, and we will upgrade, especially on KLM, the fleet on the medium haul. So we will grow, and we will look for the opportunities, but again, we can always scale back, and I think a 4%-5% is a, let's say, a disciplined growth in this market. Then another favorite topic of you, and it's the capital expenditure. So coming back again, during COVID, we swiftly reduced. Be aware that 20%-30% of our capital expenditure is just maintenance.
So when we reduce our capacity or production, we will immediately reduce also our CapEx level. What is interesting to see is if you look at the CapEx level in relation to the revenue, you see it's not growing, compared to today in relation to our revenues. Actually, we stay at the same percentage. We even go slightly down. And what's even more interesting to see is that we are much lower than what we were in 2019. We will focus especially on fleet investment. 80% of the CapEx is related to fleet, so that is fleet plus the maintenance part. We have a lot of flexibility. 50% of the CapEx is committed and 50% is not committed. And what is also important is that we continue our next phasing in of the next generation aircraft.
So in 2028, we will be at 64%, so close to two out of the three planes is a next generation planes, with less fuel, less nitrogen, and less noise. And at the same time, we will not, not grow our operational lease rate. So we are currently at 51% of our fleet is operational lease. In 2026, we will be below 50%, exactly actually at the levels where we were in 2019. So I think for the years to come, it is EUR 3 billion-EUR 3.5 billion. For the years 2026 to 2028, we talk about EUR 3.5 billion-EUR 3.8 billion, with a lot of flexibility and again, with a lower CapEx level compared to the revenues we have. The third pillar is the optimized...
of the optimization of the balance sheet and the capital structure. The improvement of our balance sheet has been one of the key priorities since I took the job in July 2021. We have finally now restored our equity, and we are actually at the leverage of 2019. I'm very happy to announce that we have two credit ratings, and it is an important new chapter in our group history. It will bring more discipline. It will bring increased focus on our balance sheet and value creation in our company. And of course, we can use the full potential of the debt market with these two ratings.
So for S&P Global, we will have a rating, a company rating of BB+ with a stable outlook, and our 2028 senior unsecured notes are rated at BB+ . If you look at Fitch, we are rated at a BBB- with a stable outlook, and our unsecured long-term debt is also rated at a BBB- , which is an investment grade. So it's good to see that all our hard work after the last years is fully recognized by the credit agencies. Then on the financials. So where are we today? So we ended September 30, and I don't have yet the numbers for the end of December, but we ended with EUR 10 billion. We did the financing with Apollo, so that brought another EUR 1.5 billion.
For sure, we burned cash in the fourth quarter, as we always do, but we have a sufficient cash base at this moment. We target a liquidity of EUR 6 billion-EUR 8 billion, which actually means that if you look at the bonds at the left side, we have a lot of flexibility to redeem this debt in the next year. What is also interesting is that we are having actually, if you look at our gross debt of EUR 8.5 billion, we have 90% already fixed in interest rates. That means that the interest rates of these, of this debt is below the 4%, and which is actually quite favorable, and that also means that if you get in a more nasty interest rate climate, we are very well hedged for that future.
Of course, the rating provides another opportunity to optimize our cost of financing, and even on the hybrid coupons with, let's say, the use of our strong assets, we would bring... Let's say we are at a decent interest rate of 6.7% for such an instrument. So good to see that on the fuel side, we are less exposed, and also on the interest rates, we are less exposed for the years to come. Then the outlook. The outlook. Let's first start at the coming three years. So we confirm the 7%-8% margin. We confirm that we have a positive adjusted operating free cash flow. If you exclude the incidentals, which are mentioned in the footnotes, which are mainly related to the COVID period, and we still have a cargo claim to pay.
On the unit cost, we will reduce further our unit cost. For next year, we expect that it will be flattish. This is coming actually mainly from the KLM premiumization, so we have less seats in the plane, and we will fly at KLM more medium haul than long haul. So the growth is especially on the medium haul, which is a negative impact on the unit cost. The leverage we keep at between 1.5 and 2, but we are, let's say, very much at the low side of this leverage. And our new ambition is even more ambitious. So we will be at above 8% in margin.
SWe do that by continuing our cost reductions, improving our revenue stream, so we don't bet on a general increase of the revenue per ASK, but we really have defined the revenue streams to get these revenues in, and we are focusing on getting the operations back on track. Then we will have significant positive adjusted free cash flow. We will further reduce our unit cost, and we will be investment graded by at least two credit agencies. So to summarize, an increased ambition and outlook revised upwards for the years 2026, 2028. A EUR 2 billion additional EBIT improvement compared to where we are today with a contribution from all our businesses. A disciplined capital allocation with flexibility in the CapEx and in the cash levels.
We have now the inaugural ratings, showcasing our improvement in our financial structure, and we will deliver shareholders' return through increased free cash flow generation. With that, I hand over the floor to our Group CEO, Ben Smith.
All right. Okay, well, first of all, thank you for your patience today, and your attention. I see everyone's still here. No one's left, which is good. So we're going to focus, you know, all these takeaways, which, you know, we've really slimmed down. We've got our teams as focused as we can on the key items that we believe we can fully deliver on, and remove, you know, some of the smaller ones that don't have the kind of returns that we think are worth having our top performers spend time on.
So the airlines that we have, the brands have been fully refined, and as I described, we're leveraging them and their benefit and their potential benefit, the increase in brand potential, are going into all those three. We believe we have best-in-class networks, which continue to be refined. We've got the flexibility at Amsterdam. Should there be a adjustment in the number of slots, we feel quite comfortable that there'll be no material impact on us. We've got this new asset that has been money-losing for a long, long time in the form of Orly Airport. So with the combination of CDG, Amsterdam, and Orly, with the three brands, we think we're extremely well positioned. The fleet, we've chosen aircraft. We've got best-in-class pricing. The engines, for overhaul are well set up.
They're coming on a delivery stream, which we're really comfortable with. And as Steven mentioned, we have quite a few unencumbered, older generation airplanes, which are still, at fuel prices of today, making money. And if there's a speed bump or a bigger speed bump that comes along, those airplanes are easy to ground. Customers, as we standardize our products, as we invest more money in the premiumization, which is natural for Air France and is showing solid results at KLM, that we think is a key differentiator for us to improve RASK. And then, of course, Flying Blue, we think we've been underperforming there, and it's got lots of potential, so efforts going in there.
Like Alain just mentioned, we've got solid businesses with our MRO and cargo, and we're not as exposed as one of our, as Lufthansa Group when it comes to cargo with the number of full freighters. So we think we're very well positioned from a flexibility perspective there. Steven just mentioned the targets and the commitments we're making from a profitability perspective for the midterm. And on the bottom two items here, the 10% SAF, with the one-third, one-third of the SAF required to reach that already being committed, we're very confident we can attain that. And as I said, with the fleet that we've ordered, 81% next gen by 2030.
So we're now gonna move to your questions, and I just ask for all the speakers to come back up to the stage or to the podiums, the seats, and we'll and we'll move forward. Okay.
Run better. Okay. All right. Okay, let me quickly explain the procedure for the Q&A. During the next 45 minutes, we will give everyone the opportunity to ask questions, but limit yourself to maximum two questions. I know that our analysts would like to ask three questions at least per person, but today, only space for two questions. We have four colleagues with the beautiful uniforms of Air France, KLM, and Transavia in the room with the microphone. If you would like to ask a question, raise your hand. If you get the microphone, state your name and the company you work for, and ask your question. I see already there a question.
Hi.
Thank you.
Thanks for the presentation. It's Jarrod Castle from UBS. Oh, sorry! Okay. Okay, thank you. Anyway, you spoke about operating cash flow target, Steven, but how would this translate into shareholder returns in the form of dividends or buybacks, et cetera, at some point in time?
Is this your only question?
No, no. There's two, but I'll start with you and then ask one for-
Okay. Now-
Yeah
Let's say, we first want to restore our equity. So I think dividend is not, will not be in place in the year to come. Of course, when we generate significantly positive cash flow, we will have a dividend policy in place, and but it will require a certain leverage and it require a certain cash flow. But with this trajectory, a significant positive cash flow, of course, we consider to pay dividends, but we have to bring that back to our board.
Okay, thanks. And then one for the group CEO, if I may. I think probably a decade ago, you know, there were plans that were given, and there wasn't too much engagement with the unions. I think after the Capital Markets Day, or at least a week later, there was, you know, some form of strikes. I'd like to get your views in terms of the engagement with the unions, in terms of formulating these plans, and also their buy-in, because I would imagine the CLAs would expire before 2026-2028, or at least some of them. Thank you.
Okay. A very important question for us. We've just concluded the CLAs at KLM, which are solid and will give us the flexibility that we need. So at KLM, we feel quite good, and there's the way they're going to extend or the potential extension of those. I don't think any material risk at KLM. Of course, at Air France, with the labor laws in place at here in France, it takes a lot more work to maintain those relationships. Very happy to say, just here in the third row, we have Michel Tolozani, who is a board member who represents Air France pilots, and you're more than welcome to speak with him later. But we have the highest engagement levels we've seen at Air France from our pilots right now.
So the EPS levels for our pilots are extremely high. I would... If I had to guess, they're probably one of the highest in the industry. When I arrived here in 2018, I believe that the relationship between management and the Air France pilot is probably the worst in the Western world, and I would say now, easily, after 33 years in this business, I can confidently say, is the best in the world. So I would be very surprised if we would have a change in that relationship in the midterm. It's not something that we take for granted. It's something that we put a lot of effort into it with Anne and with our head of what we call special relationships.
We have, Oltion Carkaxhija, who's just in the middle here. It does take a lot of effort, but, we have great alignment with our pilots. And some of you, I think, have even met the leaders of the main Air France pilot group. They join us sometimes when we go around to see some of our investors to show their alignment with the strategy of the group. So on that front, you know, I don't... Unless we, you know, come up with some surprise new head of the union at Air France, I'm quite comfortable.
Neil Glynn from AIR Control Tower Research. Maybe two questions following on from Jared's second question on governance. The EUR 4 billion number is obviously extremely large, and I expect the first half of that is far easier to achieve than the second half. Tying into the engagement factor, do you think as EBIT gets higher, as perhaps various labor groups are less incentivized to keep pushing as hard, does governance, does incentivization need to change as you progress over the next five years?
... Then, then the second question, related to that. You didn't spell it out, but if I look at current EBIT margins for Air France and for KLM, and I look at the, the EUR 700 million improvement for each, is it fair to think or, or, or broadly reasonable to think that both are being held to the same margin target over time? And if that's close, close to correct, how does that change the, the dynamic within the overall group? Is that- does that make it easier to manage relationships between Air France and KLM, or is it not so relevant?
First of all, we get along really well. So the relationships are at least at the CEO, CFO level, great. I don't think... I mean, we- I don't think we've gotten in a fight yet. I don't think so. Not even an argument. But the, I think as the margins start to converge, it really helps with internal culture. In the past, when you have Air France, who was really not performing at its potential, and you had KLM overperforming, not so easy to get teams to work together and aligned, when the results weren't, you know, weren't at the same level. So that definitely does help.
And the objectives for both, the reason why Air France is we're not aiming for a much higher target is because so much has been done today at Air France that... Yes, there's a lot more to do, but, you know, at KLM, we think we can go even further. But Air France, we would be pushing for higher if we hadn't done so much at Air France to date.
Good afternoon, Yi Zhong from Alpha Value. First, I am wondering if you could guide us to quantify the cost related to the EU Emission Trading System on your margins?
Hmm.
Considering the offset effects from more efficient fleet?
Yes, I can do it. So, we will lose gradually over the coming, let's say, two years, the ETS rights. And that has, of course, a significant impact on our cost, that we assume that we can pass that through to the customers, because we are not the only one. All the airlines will have this cost. It especially will be a big burden for the low cost, because if you look at the relative positions, it's even higher. So our assumption is that at the end of the day, it will not have a negative impact on our margins.
Second, would you consider to make Transavia more independent and set maybe a brand CEO to develop the transformation?
Yeah. Well, we're looking... I mean, right now, we've got the, the network and the fleet strategy done. In terms of brand positioning and, and the overall governance, of the group, it's about today. Can we do better? It is a discussion point, but I think what was most important was to get the flexibility from the Air France pilot unions to at least get the network in place to make the fleet decisions. We do, I would say from a, from a high governance level, it's the five of us here that do, that do manage it. It would be... I think it would be great if we had, had, somebody at the group level who was, in charge of, of that brand, but that, is not in place as of today.
Okay. Thank you.
Yeah, uh-
Hello
... Satish from Citigroup. My first question is around the business optimization, where you said about EUR 400 million. Out of that, EUR 80 million, you said is going through Paris-Orly. Is that mainly accounted under the Transavia, or is that EUR 80 million would be split between Air France and Transavia? So what does it mean for Transavia's margin evolution? Is it mainly a function of revenues, ancillaries coming through?
It's Transavia France only-
Right
... at Orly.
So EUR 80 million would be under Transavia, that all the benefit?
Yes, definitely.
Yeah. So maybe just to clarify. Today, just on the Navette, and the Navette are the routes between Orly, Toulouse, Marseille, and Nice, we are losing at least EUR 80 million a year.
Yes.
So that, Air France.
Yeah.
So that will. Those routes will be transferred to Transavia. The capacity will be lowered. We're already lowering capacity significantly, and we expect and the objective is to eliminate those losses and get them to at least break even, if not profitability.
That means that in EUR 700 million of Air France, it's more like already that EUR 80 million is kind of baked in?
Yes.
Yes.
Correct.
Okay, got it. Yeah. Thank you. And this, in terms of the AOC optimization, like, any... can you share us, like, how many AOCs you have as of today? Is there any further opportunity within consolidation of those AOCs?
Today we have a separate AOC at HOP, obviously, Air France, Transavia France, Transavia Holland, and KLM. We have Cityhopper as well in the Netherlands. It's not something on our list, and then we don't see any true cost savings that could come out of that. It's not a priority.
Okay, got it. And second one is around the capital allocation. M&A, is it a priority before restoring equity, or does that comes in the pecking order?
Now, let's first, we are investing in new fleet, and we will organically grow our profitability. That is our first target. If we look at the M&A targets, it should first, it will be at our financial target. So what we did with SAS, we have actually the option to get the majority share after two years, but then they should be fully on our M&A target, on our profitability targets, plus, of course, also our leverage target. So that goes hand in hand with each other.
... Just, I mentioned it during my part of the presentation, any investments that we're looking at have to be within our risk profile. As Steven mentioned, it has to be clear to us that it's not going to weigh us down with the targets we just mentioned. You know, we have a lot to do with Transavia, which is a major project to have to look at, you know, transforming another airline with the, you know, not the limited, but with the team that we have. It's not something that we take lightly, that's why this 19% stake in SAS, we're comfortable with. We know the CEO, he used to work at KLM, we know him quite well. The relationship with the Danish state is good.
We have excellent experience with two states. We know how to work with states. The SAS for us, getting them out of Star Alliance for you know a 19% stake was good. The other M&A opportunities in Europe, we'll see. Again, we... Steven just mentioned they have to be clearly aligned with the commitments that we've made.
Ruxandra Haradau-Döser from HSBC . Thank you for taking my questions, and congratulations for the significant changes at Air France since the last capital markets day. Two questions, please. First, you mentioned that you are not at the level of competitors in terms of synergies between the airlines. Could you please talk about main areas where you see potential for synergies going forward? And do you see potential to go beyond the revenue synergies more into the cost structure? And second, you mentioned that you plan to further slightly increase the O&D traffic. It seems, however, not to be any more a significant topic in your strategy. With a significant improved customer satisfaction levels, do you see now more potential in terms of transfer traffic? Thanks.
Okay, so on the synergies question, the fact that we've just concluded our second joint fleet order and joint negotiation for engine contracts has been internally a great demonstration of what we've been leaving on the table in the past. So this being our biggest capital expense now just coming into play, this is something we're starting to realize. It's quite amazing that we weren't doing this to this extent before, like IAG and Lufthansa Group. As you know, many of them place the order, in most cases, you don't even know where the airplanes are going. So this, you know, putting the two airlines' needs together, I think that's been fantastic.
We do run the sales and the revenue management teams already as joint teams. However, I would say they're probably not as integrated as they could be. They're not too bad, but having worked in a different JV for many years, still see some areas where we could do more from a synergy perspective. That is straightforward to put in. It's not inventing anything. It's now that we've got, you know, a more, I'd say, a more functional relationship between the two airlines, we can get there. Transavia is also another option for us.
It hasn't been the priority, because the number one priority at Transavia has been to get the business plan in place and to grow the Orly base, but that's another potential for us. But there's a lot of it. It's like there's a lot of small things if you go through the whole running of the business. I'm not sure if you, how close you follow IAG and Lufthansa Group. On the O&D, so as I said, we're not looking to get at CDG to 90% local, 10% transfer. It's just tweaking it here and there.
As I said, if we can get it from 49 to 54, 55, significantly increase our position in the premium, that's the objective, because it's already quite optimized with the long-haul routes that we have, does require feed. You know, we have a lot of routes that would not be able to fly daily if we didn't have the feeds. We want to make sure that balance is in there. But with a lot of the upgauging that we're bringing into you know with the A350s replacing the A330s and some 777, but the A330 replacement, we need to get more local share, and we don't want to dilute the profitability with more lower yielding transfer traffic. And we're seeing already with the airplanes that we're upgauging, that formula is working.
So there's no change to what we mentioned in 2019. We're seeing the results of that. We're seeing the improvement in premium revenue, so that strategy is bang on. At Schiphol, the 65% transfer ratio, great. You know, and now with the new Premium Comfort cabin we have, and the added competitiveness we have in World Business Class at KLM, this, I think we can make the product even more attractive for transfer traffic. So I think we've invested in the right areas.
Stephen Furlong from Davy Research. Hi there. I just want to ask, I suspect the answer is in the key takeaways at the end, but I'll ask the question anyway. Steven mentioned all the heavy lifting you've done, you got rewarded by the credit rating agencies in the market, and that was rewarding to see that. What excites you, maybe, Ben, over the next couple of years, two or three things that the investment market will get behind the company? And if I could say, what would be the one kind of risk, I mean, other than macro... Because, for example, you referenced your partner company, you know, on the other side of the Atlantic, and I think Delta has that stature on that side of the market. Thank you.
So look, I think the brands, the brands have a lot of potential. I think we take the brands for granted. I think the brands can drive, drive more, value, can be, can drive more RASK. And this is, you know, I don't I, you know, from where I was coming, with the airline, we pushed that as far as we could, but the brand at Air Canada is not Air France, and never had, was going to have the same, potential. And we saw the value of being best airline in North America. There's no reason why the both carriers cannot increase their position and go after more specific traffic, streams that can drive higher RASK. We're seeing that, as I said, with La Première.
We put a lot, lot of effort into it, and to see in two years that product go from heavy losses to profit, and a much, much better, I'd say, refined way of managing it. It's hardly any advertising because it is quite unique. And I think the Business Class cabin we have at Air France was just so different amongst the different airplanes that we couldn't put out a brand promise or a customer promise that was realistic. So despite best-in-class products on some of the airplanes, we weren't able to fully deliver on that. And at KLM, we were behind. We had a premium Business Class product which was not at the level of the competition, and we did not have Premium Comfort or Premium Economy.
So in terms of the RASK potential at KLM, we were not there. So that is, in my mind, that is a, a big, big advantage and something that, you know, I'm really excited about because we have not been able to work on that because we did not have the hard products in place to be able to put out a, a customer promise that is, should be best in class. And, I mean, those of you here in Paris that don't live here, we have fantastic examples how brands can really drive, improved, unit revenue. Now, we know we're a, you know, heavily commoditized business, like, when that doesn't go over our head.
But even if we get 5, 6, 7% of our customers are truly buying us for for the value of the brands, and that they are not, you know, that they will pay a little bit more. I'm not looking for 100% of the aircraft to do that, but just, you know, La Première, we can put in not a 5% increase, we can put in a 50% increase. Somebody who's buying that ticket is not moving back into business class once they sat there. They're not going to do it. It's like somebody who's buying a luxury product here, you know, if it's Hermès or it's Chanel, they're not going to go buy Zara. It's not happening. This is, this is what we're seeing.
We have a lot of flights where, I mean, Angus can tell us 'cause he's doing the revenue management side of it. It's a, you know, we have a lot of flights where we are able to really drive up the yields because we have a lot of sticky customers that are out of, you know, they've taken themselves out of the shopping zone where they are stuck to us, which is really happy. So that, I think, is the biggest opportunity for us, that is not—it's not baked into the projections that we have there. So I think that's a big bonus. In terms of risk, I think the...
I think Amsterdam, we've just got to, we've got to get over this hump of shortage of employees and manage the, the airport from an operational perspective back to where it used to be. So if the risk is taking longer than we would like to, that's the, you know... We'll get there, but I think the risk is can we, will it take longer than, than we hoped? In France, it's, it's, you know, the facility at, at CDG, can we get it to the level that, that matches the customer promise we're making on board and not get it, ruined by the ground experience that, we, we may get stuck with, if we're not able to continue working with Aéroports de Paris to, move it in the direction that we need it to.
Thank you. Alex Irving from Bernstein. Two from me, please. So first of all, on... You had a slide regarding labor productivity, 20% more capacity on a lower number of headcount to 2019 levels. What are the big moving pieces within that, please? Is it pilot productivity, cabin productivity, ground, subcontracting? Just kind of understand where the big changes are coming from. And then second one might be actually one for Angus here. Surprised not to see a slide on distribution or NDC in the presentation, but where or how large you see the benefits of those being through to 2028, both on the revenue side and on the cost side, please.
So let me start on the productivity. It's especially coming from the ground staff. So, with, let's say, the strong transformation on Air France and also getting KLM on the structural reductions, we will see that we will reduce further our costs. We have reduced the overheads within Air France with 30% or 25%-30%. And actually, that is what we are driving to. So we reduce the FTEs over there, and the same time, we will increase actually our production.
Its support function and also the whole operational organization. So when I mentioned the managerial lines, we just removed layers. This is structural, so the issue is to increase the ASK without adding any new FTEs in the support function or in the organization, except operational teams.
So on the distribution topics, obviously, American Airlines is leading the way and sort of leading. They think they're leading the way in new distribution strategies. I think the reality for us is NDC is nice to have, but it's attracting very low-yielding traffic right now. It's also nice to have from a cost point of view, but the cost of servicing isn't perfect either. So where I look at it, the yield you get from effectively the high-end corporate travel managers, the high-end agents that are coming still via GDS, is so far superior to any cost associated with that, that we just can't turn our back on that and walk away.
You know, there are certain, there's a surcharge environment related to GDS for the lower volume, less relevant travel agents, and there's the, effectively, we call it the private channel agreement environment, where we have preferred rates with the GDS operators. So the revenue that comes from the preferred rate environment is so good and so critical to our profitability, and at the same time, the large corporate travel managers like Amex GBT, are just so negative on moving away from the GDS environment, that it's certainly not something that we're going to flick a switch like American, you know, like American's done or tried to do and just say, "This is magic." It's not magic. That said, NDC is growing.
It's growing well, but it lacks some functionality that the GDS has that we've got to invest in. So I still think we've got a 3- to 4-year path of further investment in NDC. Once we do that, okay, it gets interesting. You're then gonna face a second issue, that everyone's gonna wanna aggregate, and Amadeus and the likes of those people that wanna aggregate. So the travel agents have every airline in one NDC portal versus just having Air France-KLM is going to be the next battle. So it's got a series of battles. The end game is, we can distribute maximum content over time through NDC, so our ancillaries revenue profile should increase. So it's got different, it's got different things. I think pure cost reduction is not turning out to be what it was meant to be.
The real target now is for maximum product distribution. So I hope that helps.
Will I go ahead? Thanks. I'm Conor Dwyer here from Morgan Stanley. Two from me, please. So on one of the slides that you showed, it looked like about a fifth of your gross debt was coming due by about early 2025. And I'm just wondering, is the plan to pay that down with cash or refinance it at perhaps at a higher rate? And the second question is around CapEx. You spoke about a lot of flexibility in recent years, and my wonder is, going forward, is there really quite as much flexibility, given that some investment would've been or had to be delayed through COVID? And I assume that that is somewhat linked to the, the profit targets going forward. Thanks.
Sorry, the first... So if you look at the, the redemption profile, first, we have a lot of cash, and of course, we will also refinance as we always do through the market. So we have now the opportunity also of the rating, which brings lower interest cost and more access actually to the financial market. We did, at the beginning of the year, without any rating, we did a EUR 1 billion sustainably linked bond. So we have, we have already quite some access, but of course, we have now much more access even to it. So your second question, can you repeat it again, because-
Just around CapEx flexibility. Is it, is it really as flexible going forward, even if some of it isn't fully committed, given through COVID, it would have to be delayed initially?
No. The CapEx reductions we did during COVID were not so much related to delays of fleet. Partly it was delays of fleet, but we kept on actually taking all the planes. So we didn't ask to Boeing or to Airbus any delay of fleet. Boeing delivered delayed, so that is another issue, but it was not on our request. And on Airbus, we actually just picked up all the planes which we got. So it is not related, if you talk about the committed, it is fully committed to fleet, actually, and the other 50% is in the range of ground CapEx, in the range of spare parts and all those kind of things. So the...
There is the flexibility and also the maintenance, because if you reduce your activity, you don't do any short visit because you don't burn clean time at the moment.
Hi, it's James Hollins from BNP Paribas. Bonjour a tous. My two questions are on costs and Transavia. So Steven, I think the last time you mentioned unit cost in 2024, they were guided down. Today, they guided flattish. I'm not quite sure I get what's changed at KLM to mean that change. Are we seeing any other cost pressures? And perhaps broadening that question, what are the cost pressures of the Orly move, or the Orly Transavia move? And then on Transavia, sort of following up from one of the questions earlier, I'm slightly surprised not to see a Transavia CEO on the 12-person executive committee. Perhaps I'm just being a little bit early to think about that.
But what I would have loved to hear today is a bit more on, given you're going all in on Transavia, Orly, and what a quality asset that is, just a bit more on maybe the, the brand strength of Transavia in France itself. Clearly, it was a Dutch brand, both on leisure and corporate. Maybe I hadn't appreciated how much corporate brand value there was in that. And I just think that's key, given it's 20% of your group EBIT improvement coming from Transavia. Thank you.
I'll just take the first part or the last part, then you can continue.
I was-
We do have the CEOs of the two Transavia AOCs at our weekly group executive committee. They're just not official exec members, so we don't have one person for the two. But Marcel de Nooijer and Olivier Mazzucchelli are the two CEOs of those business units.
On the flattish cost, it has to do a bit with inflation. It has to do also that we have to fly more medium-haul flights. So that is also one of the reason we cannot fully upscale yet in 2024, the capacity on the long haul. And the third element is also the CLA we just signed. So all that together brings us to, let's say, a flattish cost unit cost development for the year to come.
Maybe just to add one more thing on the leadership at, at Transavia. In particular in France, Olivier is one hundred percent focused on the operational side of the business, getting the pilots in place, training them, making sure maintenance is up to date, managing the transfer of the 737 to the A320neo family, which is I mean, it's really an operational focus. The commercial evolution of Transavia is being handled at the group level. So that is, you know, we, we're not, we're, we're not ready yet to have somebody who is fully responsible for both those two, because there is an evolution and transfer at Orly, which is very unique. And the timing is, it's taking a little bit longer than...
Well, it is taking longer as planned, but no, Olivier is 100% focused on operations.
Muneeba Kayani from Bank of America.
Where are you?
So my first question's around Flying Blue and loyalty. I wanted to understand, how important do you think is having an American Express card to the profitability of the business, since you did mention Delta's loyalty program? And kind of related to that, how important is giving the customers an opportunity to spend the points? So that's something that came up as a theme at IAG's Capital Markets Day. So if you could talk about that. And then the second question is around your forecast. So with the EUR 2 billion EBIT increase, what are you thinking in terms-- what are you assuming in terms of ticket prices? I see one of your slides where you showed the revenue initiatives, and can see the numbers broken out there, 4%-5% capacity growth.
Is there a ticket price increase in there as well?
Let me start the first one. No, we don't assume any ticket price increase in that one. So it's just additional revenue streams which are kicking in.
Regarding Flying Blue, yes, I confirm that there is a lot of value in having a partnership with Amex at two level. One is about putting in place a co-branded card, which we have today in our own market. And on top of that, and it is the second part of your question, to have also points-to-miles conversion deal. I totally confirm what you say. It's a very dynamic market on which we are. I mentioned that we are launching a new deal also in Canada. We are also looking at Germany and UK.
It's true that in the U.S., this market is huge and very dynamic because people have a lot on points, and they want to convert, and they benchmark the different program, and then they choose one versus the other. What we see is that Flying Blue is well-placed compared to the other. Also because we serve very attractive destination, like Paris and Amsterdam, and we are fully engaged in this type of deal.
On the American Express front, American Express, in our main home markets, does not have the penetration, as an example, in the United States. So it is a, it is a win-win or a big opportunity for both of us, so the alignment is there. You know, Amex is really looking for a strong partner in, in France, a strong partner in the Netherlands. So to develop a path towards greater penetration, obviously, they have their, you know, their objectives, and we certainly have ours. The interchange rates are different in Europe versus, the U.S., but, as I said, we have a best-in-class partner that is really helping us, in our development plans of how, how we can form a real, true win-win with Amex here in, in Europe.
Hi, it's Andrew Lobbenberg here from Barclays. Can I ask one for Steven, I think, which is, you know, while you've spoken about how lovely and low your leverage is, that does exclude the hybrid capital. So what are you thinking about a timeline of wanting to undertake some housekeeping on that equity, which costs you 7% a year? And then my second question, and I'm so sorry for becoming all hedge fundy here, but Amex GBT, we were speaking about them, just published their survey, their forecast for airfares for next year, earlier this week or late last week. They're talking about some quite clear reduction in long-haul airfares that they're expecting.
So just curious to see what you think of that projection out of Amex GPT, and at the risk of being tacky, is that baked into your forecast?
It is lower than 7%, Andrew, 6.7%. So for equity, it's quite cheap. You know that we are reporting in IFRS in Europe, so these hybrids are equity. But in our trajectory, we assume that we will repay those hybrids when we have sufficient equity. There's always a way to bridge the levels to positive equity, to do it faster, because it takes some time to have the net results and to restore your balance sheet. So we assume we will pay, but it depends all, of course, on the interest climate at that moment. But our basis assumption is that we will refinance them.
... in terms of next year, I'd only really want to comment on Q1 to say we're happy with the revenue development at this point. No, but I mean, it's not, it's looking okay, so. It's certainly not as pessimistic as what Amex would be suggesting.
Hey, sorry, I'm at the back, waving. It's Harry Gowers from JP Morgan. I've got two questions. First one on Transavia, I mean, the EUR 400 million EBIT improvement you talk about midterm is clearly a big step change relative to the current performance and historical. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the phasing of that and when you expect the benefits from Orly to really kick in, in terms of the maturity. And then secondly, just maybe an update where you're at in terms of the business or the corporate volume recovery and any expectations or change in expectations on that into 2024.
So I'll take, maybe Anne and I can share the first part of your questions, and then Angus can follow on. So to date, at Orly, first thing, first major hurdle, as I've said a few times here, was negotiating the flexibility with our pilots to be able to take the number of aircraft limit off. It was at 40 before. Those of you that have followed us for a while, when Transavia was forced onto, you know, onto the Air France pilots, it was a EUR 400 million strike with a limit of 14 aircraft. And then a few years later, to get to 40 airplanes, there was another big strike.
To get to unlimited without any labor action and actual full alignment with an 80% ratification was a big win, we believe, on our front. Second decision that we made, which was difficult, was to remove all regional flying at Orly in the form of HOP. So that took place during the COVID period, so the second step there. And then to manage the slot transfer, which is what we're currently doing, which we have plans to do that. It's going to take at least 2-3 years, which we just committed, and Anne can describe this big hurdle, that how it's been rolled out, how we're managing this transition from this moment.
Yeah, we just announced, I think it was in October, that we will move operations for Air France from Orly to Charles de Gaulle in 2026. Because we are losing, we were saying that we are losing currently EUR 80 million per year on the Navette, so Orly to Toulouse, Marseille, and Nice. And I was mentioning that the first restructuring of our domestic that we've already done is bringing, if we forecast what it would have been without this restructuring, EUR 350 million, because of the big drop of the demand and the fact that Air France can't compete on the point-to-point market.
So from now on, we are working to, I would say, restructure our model to accompany our people in Orly and in the stations of Toulouse, Marseille, and Nice, current negotiation, to make it possible. I think the process is in progress and to grow Transavia, to take the slot that will be freed by this movement. What we say that Transavia will offer a service to those stations, so Orly to Nice, Marseille and Toulouse, but with lower frequencies compared to Air France, for sure, because it's not the same model. But Transavia brand will be adapted, Transavia product to better serve our corporate customers.
There is already some fares that are made to answer the, to the needs of those customers, but we are working to better recognize them on board, for example, and with the Flying Blue program, to offer them a service that will be okay for them. So we've been discussing with them a lot. And at the same time, we are reinforcing our presence to Charles de Gaulle, so Toulouse to Charles de Gaulle, Marseille to Charles de Gaulle, Nice to Charles de Gaulle, because those routes are delivering a good result, are feeding our long haul. And so, the restructuring is really possible, and we committed to keep 90% of the current offer, in 2026.
When you add up the offer of Air France at Charles de Gaulle and of Transavia in Orly in 2026, compared to today in 2023.
So the traffic that we're letting go, Orly to the Navette routes, you know, a lot of it's disappeared because of what we mentioned. A lot of it is not, was not profitable, so we will be reducing frequencies. We've already started doing that. As Anne just mentioned, the traffic going via CDG is profitable. It's really helping flow or fund our long haul, and we're gaining that traffic from our competitors who have hubs outside of France, so Lufthansa hubs, IAG hubs. We're now putting more traffic on our airplanes going via CDG, which is great. A big reduction in the domestic market is the traffic or the routes where the flights did not touch Paris, so what we call the transversal routes.
We've exited almost all of those. You know, it's the model and the cost structure of Transavia is very competitive for Orly. It's not at the levels that gets the return that we're looking for on the secondary markets, and we can't do everything at once. So we chose Orly as the concentration point for Transavia and to strengthen CDG from all the secondary French markets. So not just the Navette routes, we're serving CDG, we're feeding CDG from Montpellier, from Biarritz, from Nantes, from Lyon, from all these different cities.
And that's working quite well, so that we—I mean, we were letting a lot of traffic slip to Frankfurt, Munich, Zurich, Heathrow, and that should naturally come over CDG because of Flying Blue, because of the language and because of the affinity to Air France. So it's a multi-pronged approach, but, you know, growing this quickly at Orly is, it's a, you know, it's something that we've never done, but we were losing so much money that the, you know, the benefit of pulling out quickly is also there, but that value is not being seen in the results of Transavia.
And maybe to complete, if you allow me, Ben. We also have long-haul routes in Orly to the Caribbean and Indian Ocean. Half of them have been already moved to Charles de Gaulle to benefit from the connectivity in our hub. What we see is that these routes are quite okay at Charles de Gaulle. And in 2026, because we also need some connecting traffic to feed those long-haul, we will put the second, the other part of the capacity to Charles de Gaulle. And it will allow us, as Ben said, to simplify our model and to lower our fixed costs because everything is centralized in Charles de Gaulle.
These are big volume markets. So the number one international route out of Paris is New York. Number two is Pointe-à-Pitre in Guadeloupe. Number three is Saint-Denis de La Réunion, and number four is Fort-de-France in Martinique. So the balancing out, and this is ahead of Los Angeles, ahead of Tokyo, is quite something. So the volume is incredible. Right now, we have a daily flight to each with triple sevens, and we've got them split between the two routes. But with the slot constraint at Orly, we're comfortable centralizing that at CDG. ...
In terms of corporate recovery, it's a little bit what Anne was saying due to the restructuring in Orly. So you had the, the bias around French corporates traveling on the Navette routes. They've all switched largely to the train, so... You're obviously seeing the dynamic of the train proliferating across Europe. So that's something we have to contend with. In the markets that have fully recovered, we are seeing 75%-80%, 85% of corporate traffic recovering. We still have lags in Asia, where we haven't restored all the capacity. We've put a lot more capacity back into the U.S. because that's where the money's been. So the lag in corporate recovery has also been a function of Asia not fully recovering.
The other dynamic with Delta, in terms of how we corporate contract, we are winning share, certainly from American. American is losing corporate share to United and Delta, and as a result, we're a net beneficiary of that. So from that point of view, it's holding up quite nicely. But the reality is, a lot of our recovery has also been off the back of high-yield leisure. So, for us, we want that market to stay. It's, it's pretty easy to service. So it's, it's gonna be a mix of things, but the high-yield leisure has backfilled at a higher yield than what corporate was in 2019. Corporate's obviously moved up again, so it still remains by far the highest yielding customer base, but I think we're pretty happy with it. We need interest rates to go down.
I think there's one question. Last question.
Yeah, I have two questions. So Quirijn Mulder from ING. My first question is for Steve. So you speak about the new targets, and you include 2026. So for me, it's the question: where does 2026 belong to? To the first one or to the second part of your targets, or the new ones? And my second question is for Marjan. If I look at the political situation in the Netherlands, and it looks like that it is quite grim against KLM and Schiphol at this moment, whether you have a leftist or, let me say, a right-wing government coming up, it does not look a big difference, given also that the Liberal Party has even helped to, let me say, to reduce the number of slots for the, for KLM, for example.
What is your view on that?
So, do I start? It's good to see your face now, because I always read your reports, but I never saw your face. And now... The 2026 was the target for transformation. So the figure, the EUR 2 billion figure I gave, is for 2028. So that's from 2023 to 2028.
Okay, so nobody knows what the next government will be. We still have to wait and see, probably a few weeks and months. But then still there are certain ways to go and to get it. First, we have the Balanced Approach. The Balanced Approach is a European regulation. We need to follow that process. That process is quite clear. It says, first, you have to start at the source, buy a new fleet. Second, you have to look at operational measures. We did. And that's Ben, you spoke about it, huh? It's the plan we introduced, schoner, stiller, zuiniger in Dutch. It's better for you, but we showed that you can reduce 20% noise without reduction.
... and the EU said that's why we don't have the experimental rule in place. You need to follow this process first, and then we'll see what the outcome will be. Second, what we saw lately before elections is that a lot of politicians have their own initiatives in place, different ones. At the end, it's not decided to introduce, for example, the transfer tax. What we say to the government, and we will come up with our own plan with the industry. It's, let's talk about what the industry looks like in 10-20 years in the Netherlands. And not come up with different measures competing with each other, because that's not very helpful. What we see today, customers are coming back.
We saw the report of Minister Harbers, I think yesterday, that vliegschaamte, the shame of flying, is less and less and less in the Netherlands. So, at the end, we need to find a solution to have a sustainable aviation, and we need to work together, from a corporate side, from a government side, from a business side, to reach the goals we are committed to.
And I'll just maybe perhaps add a little bit more to that, to your question there. We were quite worried when the Dutch state unilaterally announced they were going to put in place this reduction in slots at Schiphol. So, but it was right at the beginning of Marjan's mandate, so welcome to KLM. So when I first met Marjan, we didn't even have that. That wasn't even on the horizon. And she still stayed with us. She didn't leave. That was quite worrisome.
When the Dutch state, after a few lawsuits, said they were going to move forward with an experimental phase, which is not recognized in Europe or around the world, this was of course at least it gave us a little bit more visibility, but also worrying. But what has given us some comfort is that the Dutch state has withdrawn the experimental phase because of the position of the United States DOT and the European Union. So that has given us a lot more comfort. They've committed to going down this Balanced Approach, which we're comfortable with. 20% noise reduction is understandable. We've already ordered the airplanes. It was something we were doing anyway, so that's not an incremental cost to us.
The fact that there is, you know, there's some artificial blocks in place or reduction in slots because of ground handling, or because of security, or because of immigration, you know, constraints. That is, you know, we're talking 15,000 slots. It's not material per se to us, but what's really reassuring is, under the experimental phase, we risked a reopening of the transatlantic JV antitrust immunity that we have between ourselves and Delta because the reduction was not being followed per the Balanced Approach. So now that the experimental phase has been removed, the Balanced Approach is being followed. That risk has been removed, so that was extremely important for us.
There was also a nature permit, which was never actually granted at Schiphol, which in the past was not a big issue. No one seemed concerned, but without having the nature permit, we actually could have been forced to go down to 200,000 movements. The nature permit is now actually been put in place. It's been approved at 500,000 movements. So if the Balanced Approach does lead to an agreement that the solutions that we're willing to put forward do cover all the needs and all the requirements to meet this 20% noise, the nature permit is there to go to 500,000 movements.
I think number one risk for us is to stay competitive on the North Atlantic with the JV, and then, of course, not be materially impacted by any change in slots.
Yeah, and maybe to add, Ben, we are committed to the 20% noise reduction, and that's why we say also for our network in the summer 2024, we put our silent, the most silent airplanes during the night. So we are not waiting, we are acting today and tomorrow.
Okay. We can take one or two more.
Yeah, okay.
Sorry, Michiel.
No, please continue.
That's... Okay, but the-
No.
Okay, but-
I maybe-
Okay. But they better be good questions.
Yeah. A quick one. And thank you to squeeze me in. Maybe a follow... Yan Derocles from ODDO BHF. Maybe the, a, a follow-up question on, on Transavia, because I've seen Transavia Holidays a couple of times on, on your slide. Are you, ready to share with us, I would say, your target, internal target in terms of, revenue profitability for, for this, this new, ancillary, part, I would say? And the other one, back to the operations. Could you update us on the status of the, Airbus 220, and Embraer, fleets?
... Sure. So for the performance of the Embraer E195-E2 and the Airbus A220, let Angus, Marjan, and Anne give you a little bit of update on that. And Transavia, we're working on how we'd like to report out on the performance of Transavia because we've got to take into account this the fact that Transavia is bearing a lot of the costs of Air France, and we want to get that right so that it's a clear metric that can we give out. But the unit cost of Transavia, the target is easyJet. That is what we're trying to match to.
Obviously, there'll be a few differences because Orly Airport is a little bit, you know, of a unique airport to serve. But, you know, we believe that the RASK that we can get because of all the things that I talked about should be able to compensate for that. But, in terms of the performance of the airplanes, perhaps quickly, Angus, Anne, and Marjan.
Yeah, sure. In terms of the economic performance of both the 195 E2 at KLM Cityhopper and the A220-300 Air France, they're the highest margin medium-haul aircraft in the fleet right now. So it's a huge success in terms of fuel burn, maintenance costs, and economic efficiency. The real issue I think you're asking is: What are we doing about the engines? So the reality is, we have really solid contracts with Pratt & Whitney in terms of pricing protection on the engines, so they're rock solid in terms of protecting us on that. Where it falls down a little bit, and we're not totally experiencing this yet for a variety of good reasons, but the Pratt & Whitney is short on spare engines in terms of, they're in breach of the contract.
Now, one benefit we do have is we have a delivery stream of aircraft. So I won't divulge confidential negotiations, but we are appropriately compensated for aircraft that we can potentially park on the ground and use the engines. So the only thing we've got to do right is train our pilots in the right sequence in order to keep enough, say, A320s around long enough so we can cope with the delivery stream. So in terms of economic impact, it's really quite small. It's... But the P&L looks good for these aircraft types. So we want Pratt's got two issues on the engine. One is a manufacturing issue, one is a durability issue. We're reasonably confident they're gonna get over both, but it's not one year; it's probably two to three years, four years at the outside.
Yeah. Maybe regarding the Embraer, we had some startup problems with the Embraer and the engines of the Embraer. But we have modifications in place. It started a couple of weeks ago, and we are introducing them this week and next week, so we are very hopeful this will solve the problem.
That was a smell issue. The other one. Yeah, the other ones. Yeah, the... Yep.
We had a unique smell. We're not sure of it. Some of our crew were not comfortable with it, but anyway, that's been solved inside the cabin with filters.
No, on the Airbus 220, as Angus mentioned, no impact currently on the engine issues, even if everyone is working very hard so that we don't have a impact in the one or two years to come. The real issue that we are working hard on is training as quickly as possible our pilots because of the growth on long haul. That is a quick recovery. We will come back to 2019 capacity on long haul. We're just at this just almost there. And then and of course next summer is the challenge.
And that's without the A380s?
Yes, exactly. So it means a lot in terms of long-haul growth, so that we have a lot of mobilities of our medium-haul pilots to long-haul, a lot of recruitments, a lot of trainings. So it's not an issue because I think we are managing to improve every day on this, but this is a real target for next summer.
Those of you that have not been on either one of these airplanes, the customer returns we're getting on the Airbus A220 is unbelievable. There are, you know, the brightness of the cabin, the fact that the aisle is quite wide, so if there's a cart in the aisle, you can get around it. It's only a—it's two on one side, three on the other in economy. This is—it's a, it's a real different feeling on the airplane. And the Embraer 195 with no middle seats is the returns are fantastic as well. But what's great about the 195, it is by far the lowest unit cost airplane in its size, which is helping us get the feed into Amsterdam in a more efficient way. Okay, one,
Last two.
Last two, and then we're definitely done. Okay. Okay.
Thank you. Johannes Braun at Stifel. I have two questions as well. First one would be on your equity. Good to see this being restored. My question would be: Is this really enough? Because, I mean, it's the airline industry, very volatile. There's always happening something.
Yes.
Don't you need a significant surplus rather, and how can you achieve that?
Yes.
That would be the first one. Second one, would be on the ATC situation in France. How do you see that developing into next year? Obviously, a lot of disruptions and strikes this year. I think there has been a law change recently, which hopefully leads to less strikes or less disruptions at least. So how would you see that situation going into the new year?
Yeah, thanks, thanks for the question. I think we will build it with net results. So that is actually... Of course, what we currently have is not sufficient, but of course, with the net results coming in, then we will build an equity level which is more sustainable.
... Yeah, on the ATC, you're right, it impacted a lot, our activity, mainly on Orly, mainly on Transavia, and this is a reason why, this was also a difficult year for Transavia, because, all the cancellation during the strikes for the, you know, you remember the retirement reforms, were mainly in Orly, yeah, not affecting, Charles de Gaulle. But this is over. What we've seen is, the summer was, a bit difficult in terms of air traffic control delay. We've seen a big improvement. I think the average delay per flight was divided by four. So at the moment, it's a lot better. Of course, everyone is working because the Olympics is, pushing everyone to be good.
We also have a new law that is passed that is asking the air traffic controllers to two days before they want to go on strike, to announce it. It is a game changer, because at the moment, there were cancellations for a very limited amount of strikers because the authorities never knew how many would go on strike. So this is something we were waiting for a long time, and I think it will help us.
You know, you probably heard some of our competitors complain about the impact these strikes are having on them because they overfly France and they are not actually touching down in France. So it is something we're happy about, but it's... We're not the only ones that are impacted. But the fact that we can keep our CDG operation going, and that Orly, yes, it's impacted, but there's, what Anne was just talking about, the droit de grève, is a big game changer. Okay, so last one.
Yeah. So hi, it's Nicholas Marder with Kepler Cheuvreux. I will be nice and ask only one. So the Paris Olympics have been called a challenge and various things today, and one would hope that there is also a big reward if you get the challenge right. So can you maybe help us quantify the potential range of outcomes that will affect sort of next year's P&L, that will not repeat in 2025? Thank you.
Okay. Well, I've participated in two previous Olympics, and, well, I participated in the London, in the London Games, and I was quite surprised how quiet the city was. You know, I think, we're worried, or a lot of people are worried about the congestion in Paris. I think the city has got, you know, solid plans to, to minimize that as much as possible. So our big-- one of the big risks we have is, how do we ensure our staff get out to CDG Airport, and make sure that they're there, ready to keep the facility going? So we've got mitigation plans in place for that. The-- I think the destination Paris is, not quite sure you can do any better. The city is always sold out in the summer.
So in terms of incremental traffic that we could be bringing in because of the Olympics, we don't see it as a huge opportunity. The summer's already heavy, heavy leisure on our flights, so we're not looking at displacing any corporate traffic that was there before. So in terms of the opportunity, don't see it being that big. I think what would be a huge benefit for us is, because of the Olympics, if a lot of the infrastructure that is not ideal or not at the level it should be at, does get addressed or improved. Coming into the Olympics, this would be fantastic for us because Paris is a very big, well, CDG is a very difficult airport to operate from, one of the most complex.
Orly Airport, run also by Aéroports de Paris, has already spent a lot of money in linking Orly Ouest and Orly Sud, and now the new names are Orly 1, 2, 3, and 4. That's really helped their operation. This Metro Line 14 is great. That's gonna help us a lot into Orly, and it's one of the competitive advantages. Out to CDG, it's unfortunate that the CDG Express is not ready for the Olympics, but because of the Olympics, that project was started, so it is coming in 2027. So that's another big advantage that we'll have. Okay. So, first of all, thank you very much for joining us here today. We really appreciate it.
I hope we've been able to answer your questions and give you the information you were looking for. Of course, we have our Investor Relations teams that is that are here today. Thank you to those who are listening online. Have a great day.