Welcome to Arkema's first half 2025 results and outlook conference call. For your information, this call is being recorded. It will take place in a listen-only mode, and you will have the opportunity to ask questions after the presentation by pressing star and one on your touchstone telephone. I will now hand you over to Thierry Le Hénaff, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. Sir, please go ahead.
Thank you very much. Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Arkema's second quarter 2025 results conference call. Joining me today are Marie-José Donsion, our CFO, and the investor relations team that you know well. To support this conference call, we, as usual, posted a set of slides which are available on our website. As always, I will comment the highlights of the quarter, then we'll let Marie-José go through the financials. At the end of the presentation, as was said before, we'll be available to answer your questions. In Q2 2025, as you know, the macroeconomic environment was challenging with an increasing wait-and-see attitude of customers. This was no doubt reinforced by the uncertainty and lack of visibility around trade tariffs. As a result, the weakness of the demand has persisted through the quarter, impacting notably the U.S. and Europe.
Asia, on the other hand, continued to be well-oriented from what we could see. The second quarter was also marked by an unfavorable evolution of exchange rates, with the weakening of the U.S. dollar against the euro, as well as other currencies such as the Korean won. All this is neither specific to Arkema nor something new to you, but it's important to mention it to start with. This context and these headwinds had, of course, an impact on our financial performance, but overall, Arkema results ended up relatively well, with a slight decline in volumes, a robust EBITDA margin of 15.2%, and a solid cash generation in the quarter. This was supported by the good resilience of our adhesive solutions and high-performance polymers, demonstrating the quality of our portfolio and the work carried out in the last two years to deeply transform and strengthen Arkema.
EBITDA was nevertheless lower year- on- year, at EUR 364 million for the quarter, reflecting mostly on top of the FX headwind, the decline in refrigerant gases, already well flagged in Q1, but improving quarter on quarter, as well as the low cycle market condition in upstream acrylics directly impacted by the current macro. Looking briefly at the performance of our Specialty Materials segment, adhesives had a very decent quarter, with an EBITDA only slightly down compared to last year, despite the continued pressure on volumes. This performance of Bostik was supported by the ongoing work on efficiency and our strict price discipline, enabling us to mitigate the weak demand environment in industrial adhesives, in particular North America. On the other hand, the construction business was slightly better in Europe and Asia, with a good momentum in efficient buildings.
The integration of Dow is progressing well and contributed incrementally to the segment's result. In Advanced Materials, volumes were strongly up 6% in the quarter, with growth in most businesses. High-performance polymers delivered yet again solid performance. They benefited from our significant footprint in Asia over many years and from our high-value-added new business development in differentiated materials serving fast-growing markets such as sports, batteries, and 3D printing. On the other hand, EBITDA was impacted by unfavorable geographical mix and overall weaker market conditions in performance additives. The margin of the Advanced Materials segment remained overall well at a good level, close to 20%. Lastly, in coatings, the unit margins in upstream acrylics remain challenging, while the volumes downstream were disappointing, especially in North America, affected by the weakness of construction in this region. Therefore, the performance of the segment was significantly lower than last year.
To adjust to the challenging environment, Arkema implemented also significant cost-cutting measures across the organization and tightly controlled working capital in CapEx. Thanks to these specific initiatives, and I would like to highlight the hard work of the team, the group was able to offset fixed cost inflation over the quarter and generated a robust level above EUR 110 million of recurring cash flow, which was not a given in the context. In parallel, the fundamentals of the group, as you know, are very solid. The mega trends beyond the short-term challenges will continue to drive the growth of the global economy. It's important to continue to work on the long term and to get prepared for better terms of the world economy. From this standpoint, one of our first priorities remains to ramp up our major projects, those which have been financed in the recent years.
They are, as you know, centered on innovative material and focused on key growth markets such as electric mobility, sustainable lifestyle and goods, advanced electronics, and efficient buildings. We are now starting up our new capacity for additives in the U.S. for refining and biofuel just now, as well as the expansion of our organic peroxide in China for renewable energy. Besides, as anticipated, I am happy to confirm that our new greenfield plant in Singapore for bio-sourced polyamide 11 is reaching the break-even point. As announced at the beginning of July, we have decided to invest in a new unit of Rilsan Clear transparent polyamide on the same site, expected to be operational quite quickly in the first quarter of 2026. This last investment represents a limited CapEx of around $20 million that will triple Arkema global production with a very attractive payout.
This will also contribute to our strategy to develop local supply close to our customers in this region. This comes on top of the new capacity, which was recently announced. It was in February in the U.S. for PVDF, which is also scheduled to be completed by mid-2026. This will enable us to follow market development and answer the increasing demand for locally manufactured PVDF in energy storage systems, semiconductor, cable market, and other natural markets of PVDF. This was for my introduction. I will now hand it over to Marie-José for a more in-depth look at the financials before we discuss the outlook at the end of the presentation.
Thank you, Thierry. Good morning, everyone. Starting with revenues at EUR 2.4 billion, quarter two sales were down 5.6% year on year, impacted by a negative 3.3% currency effect. This reflects the weakening of the U.S. dollar against the euro and that of most other currencies, including the Chinese yuan, the Korean won, and the Mexican peso. Volumes came in slightly down at 1.3%, mainly due to an overall weak demand environment in Europe and North America. On the other hand, several markets continued to grow in high-performance polymers, especially in Asia. The price effect was a negative 2.5%, reflecting the unfavorable geographic mix, the evolution of certain raw materials, as well as the market conditions, in particular in upstream acrylics.
Continuing with profits, quarter two EBITDA came in at EUR 364 million, impacted by the decreased contribution from the refrigerant gases, as well as a decline in coating solutions, while adhesives and advanced materials were more resilient. Quarter two EBITDA also included an unfavorable currency effect estimated at around EUR 15 million. Half is dollar-related. The other half is from all other currencies. Depreciation and amortization stood at EUR 166 million and included the amortization of new production units, which started during 2024. This leads to a recurring EBIT of EUR 198 million and a REBIT margin of 8.3%. Non-recurring items amounted to EUR 82 million. They include EUR 34 million of PPE amortization and EUR 47 million of one-off charges, notably restructuring costs linked to the reorganization of hydrogen and peroxide site in France. Financial expenses stood at EUR 34 million, reflecting mainly the increased cost of our bonds and the lower interest on invested cash.
Consequently, quarter two adjusted net income stands at EUR 118 million, which corresponds to EUR 1.56 per share. Moving on to cash flow and net debt, Arkema delivered a very solid cash flow generation in quarter two. Recurring cash flow stood at EUR 111 million, reflecting a well-controlled working capital. The working capital ratio actually stands on annualized sales at 17%, which is comparable to last year. I'd like to thank the teams to have been able to strictly manage the level of stocks in a difficult-to-predict environment. Total capital expenditure amounted to EUR 151 million, in line with our guidance of annual CapEx spend of EUR 650 million for the full year 2025. Net debt and hybrid bonds at the end of June 2025 amounted close to EUR 3.6 billion, including EUR 1.1 billion of hybrid bonds since a new EUR 400 million hybrid was issued in May, refinancing the upcoming maturity early 2026.
The net debt to last 12 months EBITDA ratio now stands at around 2.5 times. Thank you for your attention, and I'll now hand it over to Thierry for the outlook.
Thank you, Marie-José. Going now into H2, the macro environment seems to be the continuity of the recent months. No surprise there with low demand, geopolitical uncertainty, and limited visibility, including on the tariff. Our industrial footprint close to our customers in our three major regions significantly protects the group from the direct impact of higher tariffs. Obviously, we are remaining vigilant about what we call their direct impact on the global demand. In this context, as already said, we reinforce our initiatives on costs and cash. This year, we aim to achieve EUR 100 million of savings in fixed and variable costs to offset inflation. If you remember, this is double the annual target set at the Capital Markets Day in September 2023. We will also continue to control strictly our operations and tightly manage our working capital and CapEx as we did in Q2.
In parallel, we continue to build Arkema for the future. This is very important, and this includes the execution of our major projects that you know. We still believe we can expect a contribution of more than EUR 400 million to Arkema's EBITDA in 2028 in comparison to 2024. This year, given the current context, the ramp-up will be slower than expected, and we see an additional contribution to the group's EBITDA of around EUR 50 million versus last year. Based on all these factors, we now aim to achieve in 2025, as you could read, an EBITDA of between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion. This includes an FX headwind of around EUR 50 million for the full year, assuming a stabilization of exchange rate at the current level for the rest of the year.
Based on this EBITDA forecast, the recurring cash flow should adjust accordingly to between EUR 300 million and EUR 400 million in 2025. I know there have been a few questions to the IR team this morning on this topic. As a matter of fact, the range is a mechanical adjustment versus the initial EBITDA and cash guidance of end of February, and also quite consistent if we make the analysis compared to last year's results. Beyond the current year, we are firmly convinced that mega trends are there to remain on the long term and that Arkema is already very well positioned with its portfolio of cutting-edge technology and sustainability-driven innovation to continue to capture the numerous growth opportunities that we create. I thank you very much for your attention. Now, together with Marie-José, we are ready to answer your questions.
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question over the phone, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you wish to withdraw your question, please press star two. Again, please press star one on your telephone to enter the question queue and wait for your name to be announced. First question is from Tom Wrigglesworth, Morgan Stanley.
Thanks, Thierry, Marie-José, for the presentation. A couple of questions, if I may. Thierry, just kind of focusing on that second half guidance that you've given and your wait-and-see commentary. What have you baked into the second half? Is it that things continue at the current at the exit rate of 2Q? Is that what you're expecting? Around that, how long can these customers wait and see, right? Is there a certain point this year where they'll have to come back if they want to sell product, or can they last out through the whole year on this wait-and-see attitude? That's my first question. My second question is around Advanced Materials. Just to unpack that a little further, I mean, obviously, we're seeing good volume growth but declines in EBITDA. Is that because you're seeing a ramp-up of volumes which aren't carrying positive EBITDA yet but will in the future?
Or is it that, at the same time, you're losing high-value volumes underlying that picture in other markets? Just trying to understand when the volumes kick into EBITDA growth in Advanced Materials. Thank you.
Thank you, Tom. That was a very valid question. Assumptions for H2 are basically in continuity, but we put a range of EUR 100 million on the EBITDA, started from the exit rate of Q2. Depending on this range by nature, any range is certainly a bit more optimistic for the high end of the range, assuming certainly a little bit of rebound at the end of the year. The low end, assuming absolutely no rebound. I would say for the time being, and nobody has any crystal ball, and we have been all surprised by the length of the wait-and-see. We must admit that. We are not the only one. I think we prefer to be cautious because there are some elements which we don't master, including the tariffs. Each time you think you will get something rather clear, you have some surprise a few weeks after.
It's better to be cautious. I would say we don't know. I still think it's our experience in chemicals. We started to have some stock. It was in September 2023. It's really a very long period. We are absolutely convinced that there will be a rebound at a certain time, and then there will be certainly plenty of upside linked to the tension, as we have seen several times in the past 10 years in chemicals. The question is when? Frankly, on this, we don't know because beyond the typical macro cycle, you have some geopolitical factors that we don't master. I would say it's neutral, but there will be, at a certain point, light in the tunnel. As usual, we believe that Arkema can get out of this period stronger than our competitors. This is what we have been proving since many, many years.
With regard to Advanced Materials, in fact, this is a difficulty when the markets are down. The mix is also a little bit affected. This means that we have a tendency to have more growth in the more commoditized businesses and the more specialty businesses. We have seen that always. You have the contrary when there is rebound. This is why we have double gain in EBITDA when there is a rebound. When the volumes are more under pressure, I would say purely specialty businesses are suffering a bit more. It's one answer. The second one is that in terms of geographical mix, we have U.S., which is disappointing. Asia is rather solid for us. The mix between the two creates this discrepancy between volumes and EBITDA.
If I compare also to many peers, despite all of this, we see for Advanced Materials and for the group, the level of EBITDA margin is quite robust still. I wanted to mention it.
Okay. Thank you very much, Thierry.
Thank you, Tom.
Next question is from Aron Ceccarelli Berenberg.
Hello. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Thanks for slide number five where you showed a recap of the new projects. Perhaps what assumption underpins the reiterated forecast of above EUR 400 million earnings contribution by 2028? Has this been reiterated on an assumption that by 2028, the macro would be as you originally expected, or do you expect market share gains to support it in some of the projects you mentioned? The second question is on free cash flow and your leverage. I wonder if you can discuss a little bit what your thoughts are about the current leverage and the free cash flow generation going into the second half of the year. Thank you.
Okay. On the first question, the nature of these projects is a little bit different in each. I would say different depending on which project we are talking about. For example, it's different if you take the Singapore plant or the project with Nutrien. The project with Nutrien is really an integration of the raw material. Then we mechanically, as soon as it's really ramping up, increase our profitability. On this, we will get the benefit far before 2028. On Singapore, you will get the ramp-up of the business. You have to assume clearly a recovery of the macro before 2028. Then it will be four years from now. From September 2023, it will be six years. On this, we think it's a reasonable assumption that the macro at a certain point, coming back to the answer to Tom, will come back. The question is when?
We get it closer certainly than it was two years ago. If you take Singapore development, you have a lot of development in niches. You don't really take market share, but through technology. It's not like you bring the same product with a lower price or whatever. It's really a new market that we are developing, a very technical market. We mentioned in sport. We mentioned in battery. We mentioned in optical also with this new project of clear polyamide, etc. We get a lot, even if some people can have the impression that what is sustainability is slowing down in terms of potential of growth. We still believe that it's a big driver of the world and will continue to push a lot on that. It's not really market share. Again, it's really a new development. We are very strict on new business developments.
We could mention also PIAM Advanced Electronics, where because of the new mobility, you have plenty of application and digital, plenty of application developing. Even if you can have some picking down the mid-long-term term, it's still very positive. All this is coming from this new project, including also to show you a third nature of projects, the acquisition of Dow Adhesives and by flexible packaging by Bostik. There is a little bit of market share recovery because in the past two years before we bought it, this business had lost market share. It's far beyond that. I think by putting three ranges together, the two belonging to Arkema and Bostik and another one belonging to this new acquisition, we're able to really be a full global player with a full range in adhesive for flexible packaging.
We will ramp up very quickly because in terms of technology, we'll be really at the top of the market. It's a different nature, again, of project. This is what is good with this. I think we have 12 development projects. What is good about them? They have different natures. They are quite diversified. If the macro is reasonably good, I would say in the coming years, we are confident to deliver the EUR 400 million of contribution. On the free cash flow, I will let the current leverage, I will let Marie-José comment. Just to mention that I think, again, we had quite, if I compare also to some other press release, quite a good free cash flow generation in Q2, which means really that it's beyond the DNA of Arkema still. Our balance sheet is quite solid.
Regarding the updated guidance, basically, it's quite consistent with what we did at the start of the year. If you remember, end of February, we guided around EUR 1.5 billion to EUR 1.7 billion EBITDA with a EUR 600 million cash flow, the midpoint being EUR 1.6 billion. It's now readjusted to between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion, so midpoint is EUR 1.35 billion. I'd say you find basically a corresponding adjustment on the cash flow guidance. It still assumes actually a similar type of a variance in working capital that we had generated last year and also assumes the reduction of CapEx that we have committed to deliver this year and on which we are on track. Therefore, I would think the leverage, if you take the midpoints of the two guidances, should remain relatively stable between 2.4 times EBITDA and 2.5 times EBITDA.
Thank you very much.
Next question is from Martin Favre, BNP.
Hi. Good morning. Two questions, please. The first one on the, I mean, clearly, we've seen a resilience of the two Specialty divisions, Adhesive and Advanced Materials. When we looked at Coatings , obviously, a very different picture. I was wondering if you could talk about the different dynamics within the Coatings division between downstream and upstream acrylics. Maybe can we talk about the resilience of that downstream business in terms of, I guess, net pricing, margin, contribution, etc.? The second question for Marie-José Donsion on that cash flow point. I understand that you're taking the same assumption on working capital as last year. Last year, sales were up at a group level. I guess this year, they are going to be down a few hundred million.
I'm just wondering, are you assuming that we see a recovery towards the end of the year and therefore, I guess, the working capital picture reflects an improvement into H1 next year? Thank you.
Thank you, Laurent. On the first question, in fact, it shows that we have two different dynamics between upstream and downstream. Upstream, no surprise in this kind of environment, as this is our most cyclical business. We suffer from unit margin, which is linked to the spread, which is linked to the cycle and the low demand. It will come back as soon as the demand is recovering. You can see it two ways. If you're positive, you can say there is an upside for Arkema in the coming year, which is quite significant. With regard to the downstream, I would say that the net pricing is resilient. The topic is volume. In fact, you have differentiated. One, this is net pricing, which is negative for the upstream. The downstream is more the volume, which reflects the global economy.
On cash flow, basically, when you compare the two second halves, let's say, last year and this year, I expect similar improvements in working capital, so close to EUR 250 million. The main driver is probably we count on a more flat seasonality of the business compared to last year, in line with what we've seen since the beginning of the year. This is the main change if you compare the two financial years. Obviously, the other change is the less expenses on CapEx that generate less payables of CapEx. I guess this is mechanically factored in your models already.
Okay, thank you.
Next question is from James Hooper, Bernstein.
Hi. Thank you very much for taking my questions. I have two, please. The first is around the incremental cost savings plan. Clearly, the plan was before to save roughly $50 million per year through to 2028. Are the incremental savings found this morning, are they additional to the plan, or are these front-loading of future savings given the pressure on the business? My second question is about the portfolio. Given the kind of different dynamics and the capital being invested is focused much more on high-performance polymers, adhesives, has the performance of Coating Solutions changed your view on the right portfolio for Arkema? Thank you.
Okay. Two very different questions, but quite valid. On the first one, in fact, the 50 per year in average becomes 100 for this year. We should have achieved 50, so it's 50 incremental to the 50, which brings it to 100, which is quite significant for Arkema. I would say structural. The idea is that it's not just sort of one-off that we'll get back next year. The idea is that we set the base lower than it should have been with our previous plan. It's really a big effort from the team. As you know, we are always a little bit low profile in terms of communication on that, but I can tell you that the momentum by the team is really there. With regard to the performance of coating solutions, in fact, it's typical performance of coating solutions when the market is down. We should not overreact.
You have to be prepared that actually, depending on the cycle, to be lower than what is normalized condition. It's a bit more even if the EBITDA is quite disappointing, but it's not horrible. I would say we are in conditions which are a little bit extreme for this kind of business because of this context that we have explained. It can get normalized quite soon. As soon as you will start to see some rebound, some tension, you will be positively surprised by coating solutions. We don't want to overreact. We have, as you know, a strategy which is very clear around the three segments which make our Specialty Materials focus. They are very complementary. For example, in coatings, we see a lot of application in battery. It's a very important technology in battery, very complementary to what we do in adhesives and also in high-performance polymers.
We really will continue to build on that. Once it's that, and you're right, in terms of allocation of cash and of resources, we put a clear priority in high-performance polymers and adhesives. Like in any portfolio, you have some businesses which play more the cash cow and some where you really put the emphasis on the growth.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Next question is from Matthew Yates, Bank of America.
Hey. Good morning, everyone. Just a couple, please. I wanted to just revisit the balance sheet and the cash flow. Correct me if my numbers are wrong. I think at the strategy presentation, you talked about EUR 650 million to EUR 700 million of CapEx on average through the coming years. When you look at that leverage ratio, which is the highest I can remember at Arkema, and you also think about the state of the end markets, are you still intending to spend the same magnitude of CapEx over the next couple of years, or will you be revisiting that? The second question, slightly more specific really, is there's some press stories about a big U.S. smartphone company potentially launching a foldable model next year. I don't know if you have any insights as to whether that would use polyamide technology, whether Arkema has a chance of selling into a U.S.
customer because that was obviously one of the big synergy opportunities from taking the Korean technology into different markets. Curious if you have any insights into that. Thank you.
Okay. With regard to the Matthew, the first one, you're right to say that we started with an amount which was EUR 750 million to EUR 800 million at the Capital Markets Day. We decreased to EUR 650 million to EUR 700 million. Clearly, the current spend this year is max EUR 650 million. If we can do less, we'll do less, but it's max EUR 650 million. Given the current context, it's clear that we have not a tendency to exceed EUR 650 million for next year. This will have to be confirmed. It will depend on the macro. You know we are just finishing a big launch that we have financed last year, finished to finance last year, a big wave of CapEx. We are not in a risk to put big CapEx next year. We'll continue to, I would say, to streamline the CapEx.
Let's consider that this year, the max is EUR 650 million, and then next year, from what we see today, the max will also be EUR 650 million, but to be confirmed. With regard to the smartphone, clearly, I don't want to be too specific, especially in advance of PIAM, and you know they communicate they are a listed company in Korea. I want them to let their communication go. Clearly, all you are talking about are opportunities for polyamide. PIAM is a global supplying globally to supply global players on smartphones. They are very well positioned, and they are taking opportunities from all new models. I don't want to be too specific about PIAM.
Understood. Thank you, Thierry.
Next question is from Chetan Udeshi, JP Morgan.
Hello. Can you hear me?
Yes, better now.
Yeah. Cool. The first question was, it seems from your comment that you haven't really seen much change so far in July versus what you saw in Q2. If that is correct, would you suggest that we model seasonal developments in third quarter compared to second quarter, which tends to be down like 5% to 10% versus second quarter? Is there something that can be different in Q3 versus normal seasonality? That's one. The second question, perhaps for Marie-José, your net interest financing costs were higher than I think at least what we had in mind. I think, historically, you've talked about EUR 80 million to EUR 90 million of net financial expenses. Is that number now higher given what we've seen in Q2? I know you also have refinanced some of your debt.
The third question was, the comment about rapid recovery when demand turns suggests that you think all of the earnings pressure that you've seen in some of your businesses, and most notably in coatings, is cyclical. We also know that the supply cycle today is far worse than we've had for many, many years. Why would your profitability recover rapidly? In other words, why should we not see some of your earnings pressure in some of your businesses to be more structural in the sense you've just lost it, just because you can't compete with some of the very low-priced competitors?
Okay. I will let Marie-José answer on the two, obviously. On the first one, I would say that July is, if I put the seasonality aside, it's the same kind of trend as the exit of Q2. You have not to expect a miracle overnight. It will come. I would say it's really in the continuity. Without being too specific, you should see the normal seasonality of Q3 versus Q2. If you take the past 10 years, you have seen that Q3 is always below Q2 with a certain discount, which can be more or less important. If you take the average, I think it gives you a good idea. You need to take in mind that August is a low month. It's a short month. No special comments on that.
We enter the quarter in continuity with the second quarter, and you will observe the normal seasonality where, because of August, Q3 is a lower quarter than Q2. Nothing special there and it is factored in the guidance. Marie-José, you said something?
Yeah. Regarding the financial expenses, you are correct. In fact, we faced an increase in financial expenses in our P&L. We have delivered EUR 58 million net financial expenses for the first half. In fact, the cost of financing remains quite competitive because if you take the average cost of our bonds, both senior bonds and hybrids, the average rate that applies to Arkema is 2.7%, which, frankly, in the current market and financial interests, is extremely competitive still. We have less liquidity that we invest. We basically repaid a senior bond of EUR 700 million in June. In fact, the main effect of this increased financial expenses is coming from the interest on invested cash, which is, in fact, lower than what we got as revenues last year. This is, in fact, the main phenomena.
I was investing last year EUR 1.7 billion at an average of 3%, and I'm now investing an average of EUR 1.2 billion cash at an average of 2.2%, for instance.
Thank you, Marie-José. On the last question, I did not say that profitability would recover quickly. What I say is that the profitability of the coating solutions, and in particular of the upstream, which is the upstream acrylic, will recover with the market. This means that it's certainly in our specialty portfolio. It's a more cyclical business, and it's linked to the profitability. Back to the question of Laurent, of the upstream, the cycle is reflecting the macro. For the time being, we are in low cycle. We see that on the net pricing, on the unit margin of the upstream acrylic, and mechanically, when the demand will come back, we will have a recovery of the earnings. Now, on your point, it also depends on the supply. On the supply, I mean, we have now close to 15 years of experience on that.
The wildcard is Malaysia because in Europe and the U.S., you have absolutely no change in the supply since many years, and there will not be because it would make no sense to extend in these two regions. It's really depending on the demand there. In Asia, you can see that we are already in overcapacity, but I would say for the first part of the year, finally, our acrylic profitability is not so bad. I know that China wants to put more pressure on, let's say, rationalizing overcapacity in many sectors. You can see it positively or negatively, but we try to stay calm and neutral. I would say to answer your question, we don't think that the earning decrease is structural for the reasons that I've mentioned in upstream acrylics. For the downstream, as I mentioned to Laurent, it's purely the volume.
It's a volume topic, and we really wish it will be addressed when the recovery comes. About the speed of the recovery, I have no clue. You have no clue. Nobody has any clue. We will wait and see. We are prepared for when it will come. We'll be ready there.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
For any further questions, please press star one on your telephone keypad. We have no more questions registered at this time.
Okay, I would like to thank you very much for your interesting question, and I wish you all a good continuation of the summer. Okay, talk to you soon. Bye-bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes this conference call. Arkema, thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.