Okay, I believe that we can now start the presentation of Cegedim first quarter 2024 revenue that we are releasing that we have just released. So the revenue for the first quarter 2024 was EUR 155.9 million, in growth of 6.9% and organic growth of 6%. This solid growth was mainly due to the digitization solutions, marketing, and international operations. So you can see here how the growth was done with this bridge. So this EUR 10 million growth between Q1 2023 and Q1 2024 was mainly due to the organic growth for EUR 8.8 million, so a 6% organic growth, as I mentioned before.
A positive structure impact of EUR 0.9 million due to the integration of Visiodent at March first, and a slight positive currency impact of EUR 0.2 million, mainly due to the sterling pound appreciation from Q1 2023 to Q1 2024. As you may have seen in the press release, we reclassified a few branches because of operational synergies from a division to another. The main impact was on the software and services division, where the branch Cegedim Outsourcing and Audiprint, which are both active in the IT infrastructure, reclassified as cloud and support. Also, the branch called BSV, which is active in data integration, was reclassified from the flow division to the cloud and support division.
So you can see, on the next slide, you'll see that we always talk about now, the Q1 2023 reclassified revenue, for comparison. So you can see, how the growth was, decomposed between the divisions, during this quarter. So the software and services division was almost flat. The flow division grew by 5.5%. The data and marketing grew by 9.8%, BPO by 39.7%, sorry, and the cloud and support by 7%. Meaning, as I mentioned before, total growth of 6.9% or EUR 10 million, quarter-over-quarter.
Now, let's dive into the various division, and the first one is the software and services division, which represented 48% of the group revenue during the first quarter, meaning EUR 74.3 million. So the organic growth was actually negative during this quarter, about 1.7% down or EUR 1.3 million. Structure impact was positive by EUR 0.9 million, which is what I meant—what I said before, the Visiodent integration since March first, and a slight positive currency impact from the sterling pound for EUR 0.3 million. So it's this almost stability for the software and services division. So it's decomposed by the Cegedim Santé, as you may have noticed, with revenue down 17%, like for like.
This is mainly due to comparison basis effect due to Ségur de la Santé, for which we had received some grants on the first quarter in 2023, which was not the case in 2024. Also, some revenue were postponed from Q1 to Q2 this year. These are tablets for nurses, and there is a little, little delay in the delivery, so it means we had some new business, but not renewal business, and we believe we're gonna catch up in the next quarter. The positive scope effect is due to the integration of Visiodent since March 1st.
Other French activities, they grew by 3.6%, mainly due to the HR activity, which is still very, in very good shape, very good momentum, and also to the insurance business, which is a solid solid growth. As you may see here, the international business grew by 8.7% on this quarter-to-quarter. This is mainly due to the pharmacies in the UK, for which we benefited from the Pharmacy First program, for which we had grants in England and Wales. So the Pharmacy First program, for the one of you who are not familiar with this program, is a program from the NHS in the UK, that allows the pharmacies to deliver some medication on seven clinical pathway.
Meaning that the client or the patients doesn't have to go to the physician and can go to the pharmacist, straight and have the medication delivered. Also, the Spanish hospitals performed very well in the first quarter, thanks to the winning of the contract in the Murcia region in Spain. The second division, the flow division, represented 16% of the group revenue for the first quarter, which is EUR 25.3 million. So the growth was mainly organic by EUR 1.2 million, 5.3%, and a slight positive currency impact on the first quarter, resulting on a total growth of 5.5% or EUR 1.3 million. So the growth in this division mainly came from the e-business subdivision.
You are now quite familiar with this e-business, and both practices contributed to the growth. The invoices digitization practice and the health flow practice both contributed positively to the growth for the e-business. The third-party payment at first it looks like it's stable at 0.5%, but please bear in mind that part of the business has been relocated to the BPO division due to the Allianz contract. If it had not been this case, it would have been a growth about mid-single digit, and it's due to the volumes and also to the good success of our fraud detection solution. Sorry. So all in, it's a growth of 5.5% for the flow division.
The third division, the data and marketing division, it represented 17% of the group revenue for first quarter of EUR 27 million. It's a growth of 9.8% in this quarter. All of it is organic growth, so it's EUR 2.4 million. The data subdivision was stable during this quarter. Stable activity for the data, with French sales being a bit more dynamic than the international ones. In marketing, it's a strong growth in this quarter, about 21%, growing from EUR 11.5 million- EUR 14 million. This confirms the soundness of the strategy, of the physical strategy of the marketing in pharmacies.
Also, there have been some additional special campaigns that contributed on this first quarter to this very good performance. Last but not least, the BPO division, which represented 13% of the sales on the first quarter for the group. So, meaning EUR 20.2 million in revenue. It's been mainly organic growth. It's only an organic growth, about 39.7%, so EUR 5.8 million. So, it's the insurance BPO subdivision that contributed to the growth mainly. There are two things about it. First, there's a comparison effect due to the Allianz contract. Please bear in mind that the contract started on April 1st last year, meaning in Q2. So it means that there's some revenue that is not comparable on this first quarter.
Also, on its organic, there's a very good momentum for the overflow solution. And about the pro-overflow solution. The business services, BPO, which is HR and digitization activities BPO, was mainly stable on the first quarter. The outlook for the group, for the year, so we reiterate our what we said previously during the year. So, we believe in a growth range of 5%-8%, like for like. Meaning that the Q1 with the 6% growth, like for like, was in the range that we mentioned before.
Also, on the recurring operating income, we mentioned that there's gonna be an increase, and as we have mentioned previously, we believe that even though it's not a formal guidance, we believe we should be able to reach the recurring operating incomes that we had in 2022... 2021, sorry. About EUR 40 million. The next times we're gonna speak together, so on June 14th, on the 14th, will be the AGM, the shareholders meeting. On July 25th, we'll release our first semester revenue. On September 26, we'll release our first semester earnings. And on October 24th, we'll release our third quarter revenue. Hope I have been clear in my presentation. And now, we can skip to Q&As.
Please, for that, please, raise your hand with the button appropriate, and I will give you the floor to answer the question if you have any. Thank you. Okay. Amadou, please, you have the floor.
Hello, so, first of all, I would like to congratulate you on the very promising results for the first quarter, 2024. My question concerns the leaving of the international business for U.K. You said that you were leaving U.K. in your last annual call, and I just wanna make sure that this has been the case and that we should not factor in any more losses from your doctor business in England and Wales, I think it was.
... So, what we meant, so in U.K., we have various businesses first. We have the pharmacies, which are doing good, as we, as I mentioned today, but we have also the doctors, the physicians, business. And what we said and what we're doing, is that we're gonna refocus on Scotland. So we'll still have... In Scotland, we'll be, we'll be there, but we'll, we'll get off the England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. It will take a bit of time because it's mandatory for us to accompany the physicians from us, from our solution to our competitor solution. We believe it will take, a few years, three years. So during that time, we still have, a bit of sales decreasing and a bit of losses, but decreasing even more.
It means that we'll be out of the physician markets in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland in three years' time.
And-
Does this answer your question?
Yes, partly. So, it seems like you are scaling down the business, meaning, yeah, reducing the scope as you see fit.
Yeah. Actually, we will be out of the market in three years' time. But during that time, as we need to provide the physician from our solution to the competitor solution, we need to accompany them. So we just can't take off the plug from day one to day two. So it means that it will take a bit of time. But the plan, the thing is, we are getting out of those markets, on the physician markets in England, Wales, Northern Ireland.
There are still costs associated to getting out, right?
Yeah.
Which we should be aware of.
There are still some costs, but we will lower also our investments, meaning that we just make sure that our system still works, but we don't need to invest in it.
All right. That makes it clear. Thank you very much.
You're welcome. Are there some other questions?
You have some Q&A questions.
Ah, okay. So first question is on M&A opportunities this year. Maybe I will let you, Pierre, talk about this, but I don't know if you have something to say. Also on recovery regarding Cegedim Santé.
We have no, no, no M&A project till the end of the year.
Mm-hmm.
And the goal is to be breakeven on Cegedim Santé next year, in 2025. So there will be a decrease in the losses compared to 2024, 2023 results, but the profits will come only at the end of 2025. That's the budget.
Okay.
Speaking about the current EBIT of 2024, the target is to be roughly at the same level in euros as 2021, which was not far from EUR 40 million.
Eric, the floor is yours for a clear question.
I can speak. Marvelous. Wait, just to understand well, in fact, you decrease the business for doctors in U.K., and you decrease the cost of this business, I think. So starting from the EUR 10 million loss, that means that we can have EUR 4 million, something like that, in recovery, coming from this point only?
Yeah, roughly EUR 3 million per year on the next 3 years.
Okay.
We will stop all R&D costs and reduce the staff in connection with the decrease of the number of clients.
Okay.
We should be at zero at the end of the next third year.
That means that 2026 will be around zero?
Yeah. At the end of the year, should be at zero.
You have also Cegedim Santé?... where you have a mechanical recovery, mechanical-
Yeah.
-Not so mechanical, but we start from the loss of 2023. You said that you should be breakeven in 2025?
Yes.
So-
It's, I don't know how to say.
Re-recovery?
Recovery. We will have three recoveries in the forthcoming years. The U.K., the doctors in the U.K., where we are reducing the losses. Cegedim Santé, which will become profitable in 2026. And the Allianz contract, the BPO, the big BPO contract for Allianz, which is loss-making today, because we are at the beginning of the contract, that we have not deployed our software. We are using the Allianz software. And we know by experience with other contracts, like the Allianz contract, that after a period of two to three years, we become profitable. So those three recoveries, we will see really the effect in 2025 and 2026.
Cegedim Santé is losing in 2023, it was EUR 4 million, no?
Let me see. Yes, it was EBITDA negative of EUR 4 million.
At the EBITDA-
Yeah.
EBID level?
Yeah. It's-
Okay. So-
I think I need to check.
On the recurring operating income for 2023, it was a loss of EUR 2.9 million for Cegedim Santé.
So it was EUR 3 million?
Yeah. So I'm speaking of EBITDA cash, in fact-
Yeah.
without capitalization of R&D.
Which is important for Cegedim Santé?
Ah, yes.
Okay. So about the Allianz contract, the loss was, I think you spoke about EUR 1 million, something like that, for 2023, but a higher level for two thousand-
Yeah.
twenty-four.
Yeah. We are now in the period where we are constructing, building. We are building a big team in Agadir, in Morocco, to make the business made today by an external company in Mauritius. Mauritius.
Mm-hmm.
And, while we are building the team, we are paying people just to be able to use the software of Allianz. So we think we should have something like EUR 3 million losses on this contract during the year 2024, due to this double cost effect. But all the computations we've made show that at the end, the cost of the services of our Agadir team, which will be much below the cost of the external company in Mauritius.
That means that breakeven could come on this contract-
The year after, yeah, in twenty-
2025.
Yeah, during the year.
It will be the year we become positive.
That means that, if we look forward, 2025, if you get the EUR 40 million in 2024, we have a mechan... I don't like the word-
No. Yeah.
We have a recovery effect, which is close to EUR 8 million in 2025.
Yeah.
So that means-
We could be between 45 and 50.
Yeah, because the recovery-
Yeah
of these three elements is
Yeah, it's really positive. But it's an expectation of course.
Yes. It's not guidance. It's not guidance.
Yeah. Yeah.
That means that 2026, the Allianz contract is coming on stream, so it should be profitable?
Yeah, should be better, yeah.
...Cegedim S anté, well, then it will be positive?
Yeah, it should, then the growth of the profits should be standard. It's not anymore a recovery thing, you see?
We have still recovery from doctors in U.K.
The U.K., yeah.
Mm-hmm, and increasing profitability on the other side. Okay.
Yeah, the normal increase of profitability. We don't see any, unless there are some external big problems, we don't see any difficulties in those perspectives. Because we are managing the loss-making business since we have stopped the contract with the three NHS, which were really loss-making during the last two to three years, heavy loss-making. So it's just a cut into the costs and reducing losses, and the other business, they are just growing. So we feel rather comfortable in the two to three years of future.
If you can, say one word on the refinancing, or it's too early?
We are really working on it.
Oh.
We have contacts with the different actors, banks and investors, but it's too early. We should have a good vision at the end of June.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you, Eric. We have a question from Mr. [Bessman] on the growth at Maiia and potential losses, if I read well on this segment. So there is some growth at Maiia. Also, we have integrated Visiodent. So it will give us impact on the dentists and also on the health centers, which is good for us. I don't know, Pierre, if you want to add something on Maiia, especially.
The thing is, now, we are not computing growth only at Maiia, because Maiia is more and more linked to the other software. And more and more, we are selling combined software. So we have Maiia, which is the equivalent of a Doctolib, but we have Maiia Gestion for doctors. We have Maiia Kiné for kiné therapists, and so we are developing more and more combined offer, so we cannot compute exactly the Maiia growth. Anyway, anyhow, the target for this year, 2024, is to have a growth to compensate the Ségur de la Santé subsidies we received last year, which was EUR 4.5 million.
So we will show a 0% growth, but in fact, the growth of the business will compensate the fact that we are not receiving any subsidies from Ségur de la Santé in 2024. This is our target, and we must say that this is not what we have achieved on the first quarter. So we are a bit late in this target. As Damien said, we have some delay in providing our software and computers to nurses in France, due to the fact that we are buying those computers in China, and for some reason, we have received the computers at the beginning of April, instead of during the first quarter.
But it is true that we are not reaching on the first quarter, the target that we had, that we have for the year, which is to have a growth of 0%, meaning that, in fact, we have a growth because we don't have the EUR 4.5 million one-off subsidies of Ségur de la Santé.
Thank you, Pierre.
You have Visiodent also?
Oh, yes, I'm speaking without Visiodent.
Okay.
Visiodent will add something of EUR 1 million euro revenue per month on 10 months or so, so we have, we will have an increase of EUR 10 million coming from Visiodent this year.
On the first quarter, Ségur Santé was-
It was EUR 2.8 million.
EUR 2.8 million.
So, in fact, it was really on the, you see, on the EUR 4.5 million of last year, EUR 2.8 million were during the first quarter. So it has been concentrated on the first quarter, meaning that the comparison is,
Yeah
It is not in favor. But anyhow, if we recompute the figures, knowing that we had EUR 2.8 million subsidies last year on the first quarter, we see that we are not exactly in our target. We are a bit late.
But on the full year, you have.
We feel that-
Quite less figure.
Yeah, we will recover, yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Then a question on the tax problem. So please bear in mind, this was a non-cash impact of EUR 12.3 million on during the first quarter. It actually stems from, you know, we have a deferred tax asset, which was worth EUR 20 million at the end of 2022, and there's been a case law suggesting that we may be more cautious in the way we accounted it. So it was a EUR 7.7 million deferred tax asset in the balance sheet at the end of 2023. So the EUR 12.3 million impairment, if I may say, during that we showed in the, in the, at the annual results, is non-cash. So it's not a really a problem.
It was just an impairment of this tax issue. I think, Amadou, you had a may... I don't know if you have a question also, 'cause your hand is raised. No, it's-
I'm very sorry. I got a problem with my hand.
No problem. Absolutely, no problem. And I think, Eric, you're back. Yes. Oh, sorry.
You hear me?
Yeah.
Okay. No, just about the tax decision discussion you have, when can we have any news coming from the final decision?
Well, it's a question of years, and I would say many years, because we have had a lot of discussion with the tax authorities at a very high level. And if I want to summarize, at the end, the people we met said, "We understand what you are asking for, but we won't make any decision. We will make the judge to decide." So we are going to now have procedure, but with the justice.
So nothing,
Nothing next year, and I think nothing in 2026. It's very long.
Okay.
But everything is discussed in good faith, so we have no penalties. As we have explained, we are paying the taxes we think we should not pay, but to be very cautious, we are paying. If at the end, we lose the case, then we have already paid, so there is no risks, no cash risk for Cegedim. And if we are successful in our procedure, then the tax authorities will reimburse all what we have paid, so it could be a good input in cash at the end of the procedure, if we succeed.
It's only on the deductibility of the-
The losses we made-
Long-term loss in front of short-term profit.
Exact. Exactly. Exactly.
But it could be a jackpot at the end for you.
Yes, but to be safe, we better...
Yeah
pay. We are not obliged to pay. We could say we
Yes, but you can-
To go to the end of the procedure and we'll see, but it's better to pay-
Sure
... and then to get reimbursement if it's a success for us.
Thank you.
Thank you, Eric.
Oh, yeah, there's one last question written, written question: Why doesn't Cegedim publish long-term goals and plan, at least long, longer term visions? I think Pierre gave you some flavors on the three years times from now. I think you can understand that we are a bit cautious, but we give during this webcast some more flavors on two or three-year term view. I don't know if you want to add something, Pierre, about this, but
No, just what we can say is that we compute the recurring business.
Mm-hmm.
Which is 2/3 of our business. So, there might be some on 1/3 of our venues, it's not legally recurrent, you see, so-
Yes.
That's the reason why we, we cannot put some very precise figures on the table.
Okay. Are there any last question? It'll be written or, if you want to raise your hand. I believe there are none, or maybe one.
There is a question about the latest acquisition.
Let me see. Let me see. Is acquisition increasing. I think you-
Yeah.
You're talking about Visiodent.
So I think I answered. It's EUR 10 million. We will have some synergies in the fact that Visiodent is working with Doctolib, so we will put Maiia. Visiodent is using a Vidal database for the drugs, drug database, so we will put our Claude Bernard database. And Visiodent is hosted, I think it's hosted in Amazon, and we are going to host the clients on our own cloud organization. So it should produce some positive effect on the profits. It will come during the year.
Thank you for this answer, Pierre. I believe we're gonna end this webcast. Thank you, everyone, for attending. Maybe I can specify that you have the universal registration document in English by the beginning of next week, for our fellows speaking English. And, and thank you for attending this presentation, and see you next time. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Thank you. Bye.