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Earnings Call: H2 2022

Mar 9, 2023

Éric Trappier
Chairman and CEO, Dassault Aviation

Good morning, everyone, thank you for being with us for our press conference presenting our 2022 business result. The background, we're still having this war in Ukraine, the war between Ukraine and Russia. Our country is engaged to protect the neighboring countries of Ukraine, we are supporting our Air Force, that is deploying aircraft locally in those countries. The French Military Programming Law is important. It will cover 2024, 2030. It was announced by the head of state, we are waiting for the adaptations in the coming weeks. The 2023 budget was already decided upon, this military programming law will begin in 2024. The COVID pandemic, the issues related to the shortages because of the war in Ukraine, this created a lot of constraints in our logistics, supply chain, and our supply chain is in great difficulty.

It's true for us and for the aircraft manufacturers, especially at this time where there is a ramp up of our profession, whether it's us, Dassault, our friends from business jets. It is difficult for our subcontractors, and it requires particular attention at all moments. Not to mention the increase in the prices of energy, and the smallest of our providers can have some difficulties, but the backlog is full, so the morale is good. A lot of fragility regarding the increase in the pace. The orders are there everywhere, but the ramp up is a bit delicate. There's an energy transition, too, as you've seen it in the film. We are involved in large research programs. I'll tell you more about this later on. There are laws in France, the Climate and Resilience Law in France or the directives from the EU.

2022 will be a record year in terms of order intakes, especially the contract with UAE, 80 Rafales, and also a very good year for the Falcons, with 64 Falcons and the Russian aircraft, because we're following the embargo on all the Russian products. We're not selling any more to the Russians, and we've canceled the aircraft that we had in our order intakes. The 64 should have been slightly above. The number of order intakes is EUR 21 billion. Revenue, EUR 6.9 billion. That is a delivery of 46 aircraft at 13 Rafale export, plus 1 Rafale France. Considering the guidance, we have delivered 14 Rafales, and I'll get back to this. 32 Falcons were delivered, slightly under our forecast, which was at 35.

The backlog, historical, EUR 35 billion, 251 planes, 125 Rafale export, 39 Rafale France, and 87 Falcons. At the end of 2022, after many discussions and negotiations, we received the awarding of the Phase 1B of the FCAS with NGFs. The activity and programs, I want to go back to the UAE, which is our major Rafale contract. There was an additional tranche of 6 Rafales for Greece, and the first tranche out of the 42 Indonesians aircraft that has been signed, the first tranche that was enforced of 6 Rafales. We are waiting for the entry of the 36 Rafales. There'll be 2 phases of 18 each this year. We are pursuing prospection.

The success of the Rafale doesn't need to be demonstrated anymore, and it's generating a lot of questions and interest all around the world, particularly in India, where we have sold, and in other countries, have you seen, like Colombia, and there are a certain number of other countries. We've delivered 13 export Rafales. That's the end of India, Qatar, the first contracts signed, the 36 for India, the 36 for Qatar, and we've begun delivering aircraft to Greece. The delivery of one Rafale to France after many years with zero Rafale. I'd like to specify this once again, I say it each and every time here, if we do not deliver any Rafales to France, it isn't because we favored export, France asked us to do so for budgetary reasons.

We're pursuing our developments, the F4 standard, that was one of the first milestones, and an F4 aircraft is being experimented at the Air Force and delivered by the DGA. In 2023, we're expecting the 5th tranche, so the 30 aircraft that were planned since a long time, plus 12 replacement aircraft from Croatia, the 12 Greek ones having been replaced and the order having been placed 2 years ago. The President of the Republic announced his intention to upgrade all Rafales in the coming years. Gradually, we will give up the Mirage 2000 for the Air Force. Support to our military fleet, this is important with the war in Ukraine. There are verticalized contracts for all the fleets, the Rafale with the Ravel, OCEAN for Atlantique 2, and BALZAC for the verticalized contracts for the Mirage 2000.

We're discussing today verticalization contracts for the Air Force, French Air Force Alpha Jets. Exports, we've deployed our teams to set up our support to the aircraft that have been delivered, this required a reinforcement of these teams and support. Croatia is not mentioned in our new aircraft because these are French aircraft, we're beginning to deliver the aircraft for Croatia, which come from the French Air Force, we've begun the training with the French Air Force, we're beginning this launching of the Rafale in Croatia. The Future Combat Air System, as explained in the film, this was made concrete after the end of Phase A in 2022. We had to wait for the end of 2022 to go on to the next step, which is Phase 1B. These are detailed studies on the definition of demonstrator.

As far as we're concerned, the aircraft demonstrator of the NGF, in partnership with Airbus and Indra in Spain. These are the three leaders for these countries, and under our leadership, our architects, this contract will begin officially in the coming weeks with the setting up of teams here in Saint-Cloud. We're taking part in the other pillars, which are the remote carriers or the system-to-system pillars. We have the Item 0, which is a very strange name, but this is the continuation of the technical studies, where the military are also part of all this. We have the GCS phase that had been completed in 2022, and we're resuming this to improve the operational concepts. We have the pillar eight.

Pillar eight, these are the means that will allow our teams from the different countries and the different companies to work together with the Dassault Systèmes 3DEXPERIENCE-based platform, which will allow us to determine these future aircraft with the same definition, production platforms and support platforms. The Eurodrone, the chief contractor, prime contractor, is Airbus. Airbus, we are 1 favored contractor. We prepare the flight controls, the communication, data, liaison systems with terrorists. The mission aircraft, we're pursuing the development of our mission aircraft, the maritime surveillance Falcons for France. They will be delivered during the PLM, the Falcon 2000. There are 5 that are contractualized, sorry, 7. There'll be an option of 5 more that will be activated in the coming years. Archange, based on Falcon 8X, which is pursuing its development. Atlantique 2, that was upgraded.

The retrofit of the former ATL2 to go on to this new system, this is underway, and we have received the 6th aircraft. The 7th one will arrive in the coming weeks. We have provided the future PATMAR, and the DGA has sent a call for information to two companies, Dassault, on the one hand. We will prepare Falcon 10X for our maritime patrolling, and this is all our experience since 1958 on maritime patrolling and Airbus. Airbus will certainly propose its derived commercial aircraft. For export, we have delivered the last Falcon. That's the 6th one. Now there are 6 Japan Coast Guards Falcons, which are operational for the Japan Coast Guard, and we have taken orders for 4 aircraft for South Korea, and these aircraft are electronic war aircraft.

We are going to deliver 4 green, and the Koreans will do the work in Korea. The Falcon context, the number of orders received was good because the 64 orders, that is net of the canceled Russian orders at the end of 2022, so therefore, up compared to 2021, which was different compared to the previous Covid years, so 32 deliveries. There are difficulties in the supply chain and the end of the Covid. This did not help us to deliver more, so we are ramping up. The market was very active in 2022. As you know, the end of 2022 was more complex because there were a lot of fears for recession, and the beginning of year is always calmer. It's slightly less active than last year.

Today, we hope that all this is going to resume because now the recession is behind us. I hope so. Forecasts are difficult to make in this world, because everybody was saying that there would be a recession, and finally, there's no recession. We will see what will happen in 2023. The pre-owned market is difficult. It's very difficult to find pre-owned markets, and the stocks of Falcons to be sold in the world have drastically fallen. We're pursuing the enrichment of the range with the development of the 6X and the 10X, with a priority which is given to the 6X, which will enter into service in mid-2023. We first have to go through the end of certification and obtain the certification.

The last days, the last weeks, are the most touchy ones, because there's still a lot of work, and the agencies are very meticulous because of the aeronautical environment we've had in the past few years. Continuous improvement of the aircraft in service, we are trying to improve our Falcons, for example, by changing the avionics in the 7X and the 8X. We will pursue this in the entire range, and we will improve the completion in all our aircraft. Now, aviation bashing, we cannot avoid this. The whole aviation sector is attacked by a certain number of NGOs and organizations. This has been criticized for the last four years. This is just to recall that aviation, in general, it's 2% of the CO2 emissions in the world.

Business aviation, in general, the entire business aviation is 2%, so 0.04% of global CO2 emissions. The Falcon fleet, which is made up of 2,100 Falcon flying in the world, that is a little less than 10% of the business aviation. If you count the zeros, if you add an additional zero after the point, you will have 0.04% of emissions. That doesn't mean that we have to remain idle. Since 2009, we want to reach net zero, which was recalled by the International Organization for the Standardization of Aviation by 2050. In order to do so, what is important are the SAF. I'll talk about this later on.

One year of flight of Falcons, that's the equivalent of 24 hours of global flows of video streaming, and that is just to give you an idea. It's 5 years of global truck traffic or 2.5 days of operation of German thermal plants. If we really want to fight against the CO2 emissions, to help the climate, we have to look at the whole world. We have to address that, and we have our share. We are engaged in the CORAC Clean Sky programs, and we have alternative fuels. We have 50% of alternative fuels, kerosene mixes. Today, we have blends at 30% in France with biofuels today, and we're working for the future.

We're going to increase this capacity, and we're going to make sure that there are developments of new alternative fuels and especially e-fuels, and they could be CO2 means of sequestering CO2. We're spending money, and we're receiving help from the public authorities. As for the eco-responsibility, I'm pursuing along these lines, the 10X will be 100% of alternative fuels, will be fully decarbonized. Long as we find fuels, we have to develop these alternative fuels and distribute them. I'm quite confident because when I go to the United States, I find American companies that are engaged, that have incentives to do so. You know that in the United States, this momentum is generated by these incentives. In Europe, it's the bans, the laws, the Americans will decarbonize before us, because it's not by banning that we'll be able to progress.

The objective is to encourage us to do so, because we have the will to do so. I'm confident that the United States will develop these new technologies and will develop alternative technologies. In the automotive sector, they're going quite fast. Just to give you a figure, they've given an objective of 50/50 between the traditional thermal engines for cars and the electric motors, and it's going very fast. We are banning thermal engines by 2035, and countries are realizing that this is silly. Italy and Germany are saying that this is silly to ban thermal engines by 2035. I'm closing this digression. This has nothing to do with the Dassault results for this year, but it gives you an idea. We are engaged in this decarbonization. We are engaged with the ICAO.

Once again, I'm repeating, if we want to save the planet, it's got to be done globally. It's not just in France, it's not just Europe, it's got to be done in the whole world. At the ICAO, we have the Chinese, the Indians, the USA, some number of European countries, those who issue a lot of CO2, together we'll find the right way of doing things at the ICAO. The Falcon range, you have the whole range, the Falcon 2000, the 10X, the 6X, that will enter and will enrich the range. 4,000 nautical miles, up to 7,500 nautical miles for this range. The Falcon 6X, as I've already said, we have a lot of flight hours.

We have a lot of experience, therefore, we've gone round the world to be capable of understanding the maturity of the aircraft and look at the small faults, but it's brand new, and we're correcting all this before the commissioning. This world tour lasted 4 weeks with 50 stops, and this was very enriching for our ability to reach full maturity when it will enter into service. Production ramp-up is not very easy in the current situation, but a certain number of aircraft are already fully kitted, and this was shown in the trade shows at the EBACE, NBAA in Orlando, and the first aircraft are being fitted in Little Rock because the aircraft have been sold since some time now. Now we have to ramp up this production. The 6X cabin is regularly awarded. In 2022, we received another award.

It's a beautiful cabin. For those who will look at the trade shows, trade fairs, you will have a visit, and it's wonderful. The 10X will be more spacious, even better. It's like a flying flat. Those who are traveling for a long time and for long hauls, they will feel at home in the aircraft. They can keep working, they can take rests, and erase the flying hours. The 10X is pursuing its development. We are closely watching the development of the engines. Rolls-Royce for the 10X, which is in Germany, because it's Rolls-Royce Deutschland for the design and manufacturing. We have permanent teams that are following the development of this engine, which is slightly different from the one equipping the Gulfstream . The development is insured for other aircraft, too.

Falcon support, we've already talked about this in the previous years. This global network is very important for us. We can have a footprint around the world to support our clients, who themselves fly all around the world. In 2022, early 2023, we've opened a maintenance hub in Dubai. In 2024, we will open a new center in the east of the United States, in Florida, because we've closed down Wilmington in the east of the United States, because the facilities were becoming a bit obsolete. It was easier to change places and to fully rebuild something that will prepare for the arrival of new aircraft, like the 6X, and this is underway, and we've opened a new center in Kuala Lumpur.

I'm saying it, we have recuperated the maintenance of the state aircraft that we will do at Villacoublay, and we have an MCO for seven years for this French governmental aircraft, and they weren't with us until 2022. CSR, we talked about this. We can talk a lot about this for those who are patient enough. In the management reports that will be at your disposal, you have some 50 pages explaining what all we're doing in terms of CSR. We are engaged, it's our will. We are engaged by the laws, by the European directives. It's very burdensome. We have to change the material for REACH. There are new standards, and this forces us and our profession to re-qualify a certain number of things, so it is very burdensome development, and it is disturbing our supply chains, too.

We're doing the work for a certain number of things. I talked about energy sobriety, and all this is keeping our teams busy. Human resources, the company is hiring more people. We've received a lot of new orders, so we've hired a lot of new people. A lot of people are retiring, sorry, not at the age of 62, later than that, and we've hired a lot of people. At Dassault, we can hire people. The conditions are good, unlike what some people might think, and we are putting particularly efforts to hire women in 2022. 24% of new women hired, we're at 19% for men, women at Dassault. It's progressing. It's not easy because the entire industry has trouble finding women engaging themselves in this industry.

It's true in the schools, in the engineering schools, or the apprentice schools. The ratio is not good, and we need to make efforts with all our different branches upstream in the education, the attractiveness of this job, industrial job. The industry is the place where people are paid the best compared to other sectors, so it's good for women to enter into the sector, but they have to be aware of all these scientific jobs, and as early as possible. Sharing values, we've talked a lot about this. I'd like to thank the agreement signed with the trade unions, with the MEDEF. Also, the MEDEF negotiator and the General Director of UIMM. Thanks to this agreement, we respected the small ones, and profit sharing and participation. At Dassault, we are upstream from all these discussions, and thanks to the Dassault spirit, we're contributing.

There is a lot of value sharing. This year, twenty- ten million euros of employee profit sharing and incentives will be paid to the employees. This is roughly four months of additional salaries for 93% of the employees. The higher-paid employees will get a little less. We add EUR 4 million in value sharing bonuses that I decided at the end of 2022, a EUR 500 bonus that will be paid to all those that receive less than 3 minimum salaries, to help the smallest salaries that are affected by inflation, especially for the first necessity project. I haven't put this here, but you have the UAE bonus that was paid. You see, it's not too far from what we also share with our shareholders, so it is well shared. The transformation plan is being pursued.

We are modernizing our plants, all our infrastructure. You've seen it in our film we did last year. We inaugurated in Mérignac, in Seclin, where we closed between the two buildings, and we are preparing Cergy, which will replace Argenteuil. We are pursuing the digital modernization with the 3DEXPERIENCE of Dassault Systèmes, which will apply to the 10X, which will applies to the NGF, and we will generalize that for our other aircraft, as well as for the completion in Little Rock.

Loïc Segalen
CFO, Dassault Aviation

The actual order intake, EUR 21 billion, thanks to the 64 Falcon and 92 Rafale, it's up compared with 2021. EUR 6.9 billion for the net sales. We've delivered fewer Rafales than in 2021, 14 versus 25. The consolidated backlog, EUR 35 billion, much higher than the EUR 21 billion in 2021, with a breakdown which is mainly towards exports because of the Rafales. It's still high for France, as I said, you can have in your backlog a certain number of Rafales. If you never deliver them, it does have an impact. It's the case of 42, with the 28 aircraft, which remained in the logs for a long time. We're going to start the second phase of the 40 delivery.

Falcons are smaller in the share of the backlog, but there is a high turnover. R&D is self-financed, and it was higher in 2022 than in 2021, because of the 10X. R&D at Dassault is twice of what we do, so we self-finance 50% of our R&D. Thales has reported its business results yesterday. They're also performing very well. We are enjoying therefore, this high and good result, and this is also part of our net result. Net sale of EUR 6.9 billion, an operating margin of 8.3%, an operating income at EUR 572 million, so that's 1% versus last year. Financial income, EUR 11 million, it's positive as opposed to last year.

The financial management has made sure that our cash was not losing money. That's unfortunately due to the higher interest rates. Thales, EUR 394 million, that's the contribution of our shares in Thales. Taxes, minus EUR 147. Net income, EUR 830, with a 12% margin. The R&D 8.3%. Of course, it all depends on the sales. It's also up compared with last year. Earnings per share will be EUR 10. The cash is also on the rise because of our exports, with down payments from our clients, EUR 9.5 billion, allowing us to manufacture the aircraft with a free cash flow of €4.9 billion.

For those of you who do not do the math, it helps to have a €3.8 billion of cash that we directly own. The distribution of capital and voting rights, we've had a share buyback program, and that's for the changes, and it will be approved at the next shareholders general meeting. The proposed dividend of €3 per share, slightly better than last year, which will be paid out €249 million. I was talking about €210 million of profit sharing for the employees, plus the value sharing bonuses. Compared with the legal obligations, which would be €38 million, and we're far above this €38 million. It's rather close to what we pay as a whole in terms of dividends.

Future outlooks and strategy, we need, first and foremost, to secure the supply chain. It's a daily concern for our teams to detect the challenges, be they financial challenges or manufacturing or human resources. We have great difficulties in recruiting. In the supply chain, it's even more difficult than within our teams. In FCAS, we also try to improve and secure the supply chain, but it's in the international supply chain, not only in France. For the Rafale, we have to perform our current contracts and secure the Tranche 5 order for 42 aircrafts, while continuing our business development for Rafale. Military developments, we want to continue the programs underway and prepare the future standards of Rafale, which will also be exported, that's the F4 standard. We're also preparing the F5 standard after 2030 for the French military.

Support and availability of military aircraft, we want to continue and meet our commitments to be close to the armed forces staff and their needs. That's 95%. When we have a virtualization contract, it's close to 90%. Falcon, we need to attain the Falcon 6X certification to start its service and keep on developing the Falcon 10X and keep up with our sales effort. Support and availability of civilian aircraft, I'd like to remind that it's always difficult because unlike what you might think for commercial aircraft with large airports, big airliners, we support and maintain one aircraft at a time, so... That's true worldwide, so it means that we have to be present, sometimes in very small airports at the other end of the world.

It's a very particular type of service that needs to be improved. We have to have an after-sale network for spare parts and for all the services that we aim to improve. Energy transition, I've already described it. Make in India, we continue ramping up in spite of the challenges you've seen in the video. You see the front part of the Falcon 2000 made in India for all our Falcons. That's a ramping up that's important, and India is becoming a country where the aeronautic industry is getting prepared for the future, and that's not only true for Dassault. NGF and FCAS, we've launched the Phase 1B of the demonstrator, and the heart of the development will be done here in Saint-Cloud with some of our partners.

Guidance, delivery of 15 Rafale next year as per our contract, and 35 Falcons, it all depend on the entry into service of the 6X. We are expecting a decrease in our net sales in spite of the Rafales, where the backlog is not the same scope as the exports, because we do not sell the radar and the engine in France, while on export market, we sell the whole set. That was for my introduction, I'm ready to answer your questions. Good morning, Mathieu Rabechault from AFP. We have delivered fewer Falcons because of the supply chain challenges, as you said. Are you fearing that these difficulties will have an impact the ramping up of the Rafale? Yes, there is a risk.

As I said, we try to deal with the problems and challenges one by one. We are up to our standards. We've delivered 32 instead of 35, we're almost online. It's really a daily hard work when you are on the eve of the delivery of some equipment, and the supplier says, well, they won't be able to deliver everything we've ordered. You have little time to respond, so we have to get prepared, and we have teams in our industrial operations divisions and procurement and supply teams so that we rely on the suppliers who are in better health, or sometimes we shift the production mode in order to, you know, to deliver. There are risks on both. That is on Rafales and Falcons.

The strength of our company is that you have to be very agile. Sometimes I have to shout out loud, and during the pandemic, we've delivered all our aircraft on time. Everything was delivered on time, and it was quite appraised by some of our clients, like India, for instance, which means that our staff, our employees were working in difficult conditions with all the precautionary measures that had been introduced. That's the strength of our company and of our subcontractors. We are also working with more than 500 subcontractors, and even when some of them are going through difficulties, we try and manage to find solutions, and we need to find a solution to each and every problem. You know, if a screw is missing, you cannot deliver the aircraft. That's a problem.

Thank you. From Presse Agence Cote d'Azur, you've answered many of my questions. I have two to three questions. You've talked about MCO earlier and the improvement of operations. In terms of outlooks, what about MCO in the future? The MCO contracts? I have further questions. You've talked about the Aero India, Bangalore trade show and said that the outflow was very possible. What about the Phoenix work, and when are you going to inaugurate this site? Two other questions about some breakthrough. You have mentioned, you have had some problems, sorry, shortages in hiring resources, human resources or a raw material. I'm thinking about titanium, for instance, and same for the skills.

We've experienced something terrible in France, where there is a corrosion of the cooling systems of the nuclear power plant, and you will no longer have qualified and skilled welding operators. We are not EDF, and we still have welders and welding operators at Dassault. We manage, I mean, we have difficulties for all our business line. We try and make sure that supplies are there. Now, in addition to the geopolitical context, we're in a context where many are retiring, so we have to make sure that the skills from the best of engineers in our engineering study development or welders can transfer their knowledge and their expertise and improve it, because the young generations will improve these skills, thanks to new technologies. The basic skills have to be transferred.

That's a difficulty of a small business, because Dassault is a small business, but that's also our strength. We are very agile and constantly, not every day, but we're working hard on this, and that's something we're working on. We're trying to maintain and keep the skills. Welders and our boilermakers are also very happy, because these are considered as the highest in the pyramid of the employees in the aeronautic industry. We hire them, and then we train them, and this is traditionally done at Dassault Aviation in the form of a shadow training. That is, a senior operator will teach and train a junior in the work, in, on the spot, in the shop floor.

We have many young coming up, and we have difficulties in recruiting, and on top of that, the backlog is full, and we also want to recruit women. Difficulties are adding up for the HR department, and they're working on this with all our managers. That was for the second, the last question. Titanium? Well, indeed, for some time, we were dependent on titanium from Russia. Penalties and sanctions are in force. It seems normal that we do not titanium for jet fighters, so we have relied on alternative suppliers with whom we already worked before, so they have to supply us with more quantities.

We are trying to develop new sourcing solutions for titanium, for electronics, components. There are some components in our flight computation systems, in all the components that are delivered for the Rafale. So far, so good, but it's also been complicated. When we find suppliers, sometimes we have much higher prices, like steel, for instance, and all this was taken into account. It has kept us quite busy in 2022, and I'm sure it's gonna be keeping us busy again in 2023, plus the higher prices of energy, and this has had an impact on SMEs. As for the first question, provided I can read my handwriting, MCO contracts. Well, the MCO, as I said, is about supplying a service to the users.

The virtualization of the contract is such that, as the aircraft manufacturer, we take care of everything. The engine is a bit separate, so we deliver to our client an availability based on scenarios. When we commit over 10 years, it helps to better adjust the supplies, the spare parts, to work with the suppliers for the standardized and required inspections, avoiding some peaks in the activities, because I remember that all the orders were coming at the same time. The military were not happy, neither were we. We can roll out our schedules and planning, and for the Rafales, it works so well that it was extended to the Atlantique 2, which is quite a feat, because there are only 2 currently in operations.

All the original suppliers have given up on their maintenance commitments. We're taking them up, and it's difficult to maintain it in operations. We are doing it because it is our duty towards our customers and the French Navy. Same thing for Mirage 2000, because unlike the Rafale, the Rafale, you only have one, let's say, one standard, more or less. For Mirage 2000, you have several differences in models. The fleet is more difficult to manage. With the Rafale, you have a standardized system that's easier for us for the export contracts and maintenance contracts and MCO contracts in France. It will help us to better organize our logistic flows. The human resources are allocated to the MCO contracts.

Speaker 2

Cergy-

Loïc Segalen
CFO, Dassault Aviation

Cergy, the delivery will be at the end of the year. Saying it with a lot of caution, because in the building, it was even more complicated than the manufacturing of Rafale. There was a lot of delay, people saying, "We're not going to do your roof anymore, because energy costs so much." They stopped right in the middle, and we had to manage all that. It is progressing.

Éric Trappier
Chairman and CEO, Dassault Aviation

Anuradha Chappar, Times Aerospace. I have a question on business jets. During the crisis, that is the segment that really withstood things compared to commercial aviation. What about the evolution of this market, and what are the perspectives for Falcons, especially the new generation of Falcons? You talked about the ramping up. Thank you.

Loïc Segalen
CFO, Dassault Aviation

Thank you. A lot of good things for the new Falcons, the 6X, and in a few years from now, the 10X. This is what is expected from the market. The market is very dynamic. Why is it dynamic? Well, unlike the image, it is dynamic because the world and the countries need, and the companies need to develop, make sure that industry is advancing, the trade is advancing. The best way to do trade for some large companies, that are companies everywhere, that have suppliers around the world, that have customers around the world, is to fly. Instead of using business jets, because you go from 1 point to another, that is, not only do you fly to a place, but you can follow a whole route with your aircraft and change the appointment times, because it's not always the exact time.

You can go to the United States, you can visit 4 or 5 sites in the United States, and you don't have to use the domestic flights with all the constraints that that can pose with large airports, flights that are canceled, et cetera. For business aviation, I see a very strong development, and business development will decarbonize before the commercial flights. Because somebody who uses a business jet will pay more for the fuel, which will be synthetic, alternative fuel in the future. It's more difficult for the commercial flights, unless they increase the ticket price. Business jets will be decarbonized before the large airlines will do so. I see a very strong development, and the market, it's mainly made up of the United States and Europe, and Asia is coming up without China.

Éric Trappier
Chairman and CEO, Dassault Aviation

What about the Middle East?

The Middle East has always been a very small share. It is there. We sell and deliver aircraft to the Middle East.

A few Falcon 6X, which is an interesting range for the Middle East. They can go to the United States, to Asia, and I hope that the success will really develop and will help us progress in the Middle East, amongst other countries, not only in the Middle East. Véronique, here, Marfor, Le Figaro. You've just mentioned the topic. I had a question on China. We saw the sudden end of the zero-COVID policy, so therefore, will this make it an attractive market for the Falcon, or not at all because it is too early still? A question regarding Russia: Can you tell us how many aircraft were canceled in your backlog? A question regarding HR and all the social aspects. I read on one of the slides, 1,500 hires. Was that in 2022, or was this the forecast for 2023?

Can you specify what is your action plan in terms of hirings in 2023? Finally, can you tell us how the NAOs went, the pay negotiations went, and can you tell us the outcome of all that? Thank you, Veronica. For Russia, I'll answer immediately. We're not going to give you the figure of the aircraft canceled. It's roughly 10%-15% of the backlog, so you have an order of magnitude. It was quite significant for us, and it was significant for our stations. The Russians would overhaul their aircraft in Europe and all our overall stations in Europe, all our competitors also experienced a real drop, and that's for Russia. For China, I will answer with a joke. It's the largest market in the world. That's where we sell the least number of aircraft, and it's as usual.

It's a huge potential. We really believe in it. We don't sell because of the COVID. We don't sell because we say that there are some political issues. We don't sell because they'd rather make the aircraft themselves rather than buying. They want to have a price for 100 instead of the price for just 1. The sales people will scream at me, will scold me, but it's not thanks to China that we are surviving. In the future, we do not know, as my friends from the Middle East say, bukra inshallah. We are not forecasting anything for China. The 10X would be totally adapted to China, as it will be adapted for the western coast of the United States and for France, for those who want to fly, for example, to Asia.

As for the hirings, yes, we have hired 1,500 people in 2022, which is huge because we have to integrate them, et cetera. We will hire roughly 2,000 in 2023. That's our objective. You will see, because you see the workforce, some people have gone on retirement, so we're really renewing our workforce right now. Since we are developing, the equations are not so simple. We're giving work to our subcontractors, too. It was harder during the COVID years, and now we're giving them more work because we have a lot of work, so we're sharing this work with our subcontractors. The third point are the pay negotiations. Throughout 2022, we had a crisis.

We came out of the crisis with, pay negotiations for the white collars at 4.2% and the others at 5.2% on an average. On an average, because actually, there was a uniform increase. We gave EUR 140 to everybody. So that's an average increase for the non-white collars to 7%, much more for the small pennies, and we can count them on the fingers of one hand, and we are not, taking into account the profit sharing, and the bonuses. In 2023, we are right in the middle of our negotiations. Actually, at the end, I propose 6% for the white collars and the others. It doesn't seem to satisfy them that much, so we'll see what's going to happen in the coming weeks and days.

It's 6% of increase in salaries. We increase it by 7% for the non-white collars, to which we add 4 months, plus 4 months of net salary, to which we add EUR 500 of bonus that we paid at the end of 2022. This year, there is no emirate bonus, but there will be the air show, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think you can find anything better in the rest of France. You, the journalists, have you received a 6% increase? Le Figaro is going to scold me, I'm not working for you, Charles. You see, when I see some articles that say that this is a scandal, Dassault is increasing its pay by 6% only, with the results, I show you 8.3% operating margin.

We're not among the top margins, which is good. I'm not criticizing, but that's not the top margin, but we're among the top for the increases. That's just to give you some fuel for your articles. Vincent Lamigeon, Challenges. Good morning. Calculation, you have 164 Rafales in your backlog to deliver. If you count the 42 from France and the 36 from Indonesia, 42 minus 6, we go beyond 240 for 2023, for only 15 Rafales produced during the same period of time. My question is the following: when will we see the main ramping up, and what is your maximum ramping up that you can reach? Is it 30, a little more? The question is, what is the limit for the industrial tool at Dassault? Can you go plus 3 per month? 2023, it's quite simple.

The contracts, there were two parts, the former contracts in 2015, et cetera, and then the new contracts. Actually, 2023 will be exclusively reserved to France. We will deliver 14 aircraft to France, and we've delivered 1 to Greece. That will be the only export delivery. For once, I'm giving you this detail. All the new contracts, the 31 Egyptian ones, the 80 Rafales, I'll tell you more about this later on, and the additional ones to Greece, we'll begin delivering Greece next year, and the 9 new ones, this will come afterwards. You are right, it isn't with 15 a year that we will get the right flows, especially if we get the orders. Right now, we still haven't got the orders. We've anticipated the passage to phase 3 since a few months.

What is important is to warn our supply chain. There were difficulties because of the ramp-ups. We have to program them and tell them, "Careful, go up to phase 3." We're going to organize ourselves so that when the orders will have to be delivered and when new orders will arrive, I'm saying might arrive, we are still taking orders at Dassault. We haven't closed our wicket, we should be able to keep delivering. We can reach phase 3, and we can still increase our pace, and then we will be flat. If you take the years 2027, 2030, you have the UAE, because it's going to be in those years. We're going to see how France will adapt the 42, because as I said earlier on, take orders, that's one thing.

Deliver them, that's another thing, because we have certain authorizations, and then there are the payment credits we have to pay, because when you deliver an aircraft, you have to pay for it. We're a bit mercantile at Dassault. Pay for them, that means we need to have the budget and not just the military programming law. We need the budgets. There's the temptation, in general, to smoothen out this whole of 4 years. For 4 years, it was 3 times less a few years ago. Thank God we had exports. Otherwise, we'd have stopped manufacturing completely. Now it's the other way around, but we haven't reached phase 3. 27, 30, we can still take on new contracts. I'm going to go and look for them. Bonjour, Tara Patel from Bloomberg.

Can you comment the prospective, the new Rafale contracts in the future, Colombia, India, and the others, Indonesia, et cetera? Well, I'm not going to do this because I never do this, and I might be mistaken because Colombia, I cannot really bet on Colombia. Last year, when we spoke here, I talked about it. I'd rather be cautious. It came out in the media, this will of the Colombians. We are negotiating with the Colombians. Will we sign? We'll see. We are engaged. We would like to win a contract in India, 26 Rafale for the Indian Navy. It would be a first contract for the international navy. We've done this before. I'm not going to tell you where. It'll be quite interesting.

It would be quite logical, too, because we have Rafales with the Indian Air Force. To have the same aircraft for the Navy, it's quite logical. We are engaged to have these contracts in India. Indonesia, it's a question of implementation rather than contracts. We have signed the 42 aircraft for Indonesia, plus 36. There are other prospections. Yes, we do have them. We do have them down. Yes, Mr. Chairman. By accepting to be at the head of the FCAS with the cooperation, is this something a bet that you cannot keep? I see 3 hurdles which are very difficult to overcome. The first is that you have to juggle with the Bundestag that keeps changing its mind all the time. The second point is that you're going to have to satisfy 2 armies that have...

At least two armies. The first, which is turned towards the East, quite rightly so, and we are to the West, with the whole overseas territories. The third point, you have to cooperate with Airbus Defence that has not built any military aircraft for a long, long time, because Airbus Defence, these are bits and pieces of old companies that have never really manufactured military aircraft, unless I'm mistaken. The only bit coming from France is Nord Aviation, that built the Griffon in 1950. At the same time, you seem to be very peaceful, at peace, so you have the right weapons to defend yourself. I think it's the Rafale. Tell me if it is right or wrong?

Another totally different question, you talked about the exceptional annual pay negotiations at Dassault. Is it really related with the exceptionally exceptional results, financial results that you've presented? I'll go straight to the second question. The second one, the exceptionally exceptional results. No, it's not exceptional. These results are not exceptional. For Dassault, it's good, 1% better than last year. That's not exceptional. The number of orders is exceptional, yes, I agree with you, and I said so. The results, 8% operating margin. If I look at my peers, I'm under. I don't want to say it in front of our shareholder representative. If you take the large electronics, look at Thales yesterday, they were at 11% operating margin. If you look at the American companies, it's much more, if you look at Airbus.

Where are the operating results? These are normal results, and these normal results, when you look at the net, thanks to the contribution of Thales and our own results, well, I share it 50/50 between the employees, et cetera. The annual pay, it's got nothing to do with the profit sharing. That's very good. If the annual pace have got nothing to do with profit sharing, it's legal. If I got rid of that, and if I went back to the legal, what would the employees say? They would be happy because they only get 3 to 4 months. When the good results, they get bonuses, and if we were negative, it's already happened in the history of Dassault.

If there are negative results, they won't get any profit sharing, but we don't reduce their salaries unless we have to lay out, which happened once at the beginning of the 1990s. Honestly, I think that all this is reasonable, there are negotiations, we'll see where we reach. I'm not against... I do understand that there is inflation, there's all that, I'm not blocking things. I'm not saying we should do like the others, I will only increase their salaries by 4% or 5%. Who is doing 6% increase? Very few people. I think that we're reasonable, everybody should be reasonable, I hope they will find an agreement, because otherwise, I have to increase my prices. If I increase my prices for the Falcons, I have to face the international competition.

You see, you have to maintain a balance. As for your first question, why am I at peace? I'm at peace because we've obtained what we want to obtain at Dassault Aviation in this Phase 1B, that prefigures the Phase 2, and we want to make our demonstrator fly. We have the levers. We will cooperate with our partners, so long as they play the game, too, so that we are leaders, so that we might have a flying demonstrator from the end of 2029. That will help us make the future choices. The real challenge, and I do agree with you, this is a political challenge. I'm not going to negotiate with the Bundestag. I negotiate with the person who will sign the contract with me, our armies and the French Defense directors.

If they ask me to do something that I cannot do, or that I do not want to do for legitimate reasons that I've already explained, we will not sign the contracts, because this is our DNA. We sign the contracts only if we know how to fulfill them. Of course, there are always risks with the right prices, with the right schedules, with the right technical definition. If it is cooperation, with the right parameters, with the right cooperation rules, that our armies might have the right project, et cetera. We are not the leaders of the FCAS, but we are the leaders for the NGF. There are other parameters, other pillars, and other companies are in charge, like Airbus. There are no leaders for the FCAS. There are pillars, and we are in the technological phase.

What I find interesting for my company and for my French partner in particular, is that we're going to fly a demonstrator, and that is very important for the teams who've worked on the Rafale, on the nEUROn, and who are making this demonstrator fly, and then we'll see what will happen in the future. Those who negotiated with the Bundestag, it's not going to be easy for them. We have to find the engagements so that we can.

Loïc Segalen
CFO, Dassault Aviation

do away with politics when we have cooperation. It's complicated, but we will not replace politics. Sorry for taking up the microphone again. I'd like to come back to what you've said about the Phase 1B. You've talked about Schumach and transmission. This is something that appealed to me. I started at Schumach. I started at Dassault in 1975, but when I read this news about the Phase 1B contract with this war to know who is the leader. At that time, I remember going through something terrible. Mr. Marcel Dassault came back to the plant and asked people to start to work again. For three weeks, there was a downtime in production. We had the F1 market at that time, and it was replaced by YF-16.

It was supposed to be the biggest contract for Dassault at that time. How are you protecting yourself? Since we're the leader, more or less, for the NGF, how do you protect our know-how, the patents, et cetera? I think it is essential. Now, regarding the drones, I'm not far from a base where the Naval Group is going to start military drones with EUR 140 million allocated to this. Drones are very important in avionics. I would like to know your point of view about that. Intellectual property protection and our patents is something we pay particular attention because few companies have accumulated such a know-how in jet fighters. Even in the United States, sometimes it's Lockheed or a Boeing or another operator, because there are several players on the market.

For us, it's the same engineering studies, the same manufacturing since the end of the Second World War. We are paying great attention to it, so we're not going to give away free of charge our know-how, for sure. It will do that only if it is a win-win that is for us and for the program, so no bargains, and it's not because we're protecting our intellectual property rights that we do not cooperate. There are some arrangements to share intellectual property. The technology will belong to the two partners. It's not because we have a screw of 5 that I would have to give away 50 years of experience to the other partners. Generally speaking, industrial partners fully understand this because they also protect their intellectual property rights.

Let's consider my friends and partners at Airbus, they also protect their know-how and their patents. If they want to cooperate, everything is put on the table. You know, policymakers do not only understand this because they do not consider the very long-term life of a company that, you know, has grown based on its know-how and intellectual property, and this is what I explained to those people. Since we have gone through all the items of our agenda, I'd like to thank you for your attention and have a nice day. Thank you.

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