Thanks for being in this room with us today. So next up, we have Thomas Buberl, the CEO of AXA. What a year it's been for AXA It started off with a strong commitment to shareholders and presentation of the new three-year strategic cycle. Capital management discipline was demonstrated once again this summer with the sale of AXA IM in a EUR 5.4 billion deal. And all along, the business has continued to strengthen its track record, reaching new highs in terms of earnings. Thank you for being with us tonight. So before we start the Q&A, I believe, Thomas, you'd like to say a few words and run through a few slides. So I'll leave you the podium, and then we can move to Q&A.
Thank you very much, and good morning to all of you. Maybe just to describe very quickly where we stand today. So what is AXA today? We have undertaken a significant transformation journey over the last eight years to make AXA a simpler business model. So less financial risk, less geographies, but also a well-balanced model, 50% B2C, 50% B2B. We have focused ourselves in that exercise on two markets that have the sufficient size as a market and where we have the sufficient size.
And you have certainly seen over the years that the balance sheet that we have has become much stronger in terms of the absolute level of solvency, but also in terms of the sensitivities that relate to market sensitivities that have significantly increased. We have certainly also pushed to the limit very much the question around cash obsession in our business, which is normally not something in insurance that people looked at traditionally. People always looked at profit, but for us, it's important that cash is king, and cash is also obviously the substance that gives us remittance and gives you dividends. So today we are in a place where we feel good, a good and balanced company.
And from there on, we really want to make sure that we are growing top-line earnings and certainly have also attractive returns for our shareholders. So, what does it mean? We have launched a new plan in February this year with three key targets. One is obviously delivering underlying earnings per share 6%-8%, while keeping a underlying return on equity of 14%-16%. And the cash generation is EUR 21 billion and more. Just to give you a comparison, in the last plan, it was EUR 14 billion, so we're increasing it by 50%, with a very clear commitment to shareholder capital return.
Total payout ratio of 75%, 60% dividend, and 15% share buyback, and the remaining 25% are reinvested in the business at the underlying return on equity that you see on the left-hand side. When we look at what does that plan consist of, again, the plan is a very organic plan, which is focused very much on how can we strengthen and grow our core business that we have built now, and how can we really focus on a rigorous execution in three areas. One is how we can grow top line more. Secondly, how can we scale even more our technical capabilities? And then thirdly, how can we also use technology to enhance our operational excellence?
You have seen in the first half of this year, which was the first half of this plan, that we are very well underway with the plan, both when it comes to organic growth, but also when it comes to where do we find the opportunity to increase profitability still. This is basically the reference to the half year. As I said, 7% revenue growth, the Solvency II ratio, which I would like to stress, 227%. That is really the clear view of a very strong balance sheet.
We have clearly said that we are confident for the rest of the year that we will get to the range of 6%-8% underlying earnings per share with a continued good execution in the second half of this year. Maybe just to finish on one important deal that we have announced, which was around AXA Investment Managers. We have built a good business of AXA Investment Managers over the last 25 years. But as you know, the investment management scene is becoming more and more a scale game. In quite a few areas, we still had scale, but in many others, we didn't.
That's why we were looking for a solution to contribute to building a European platform that does service all different asset capabilities, and that is very complementary to what AXA IM is. Therefore, we decided to go into exclusive discussions with BNP and sell our asset management business to them. This is very much embedded in a long-term partnership with BNP. As you mentioned earlier, we also kept absolutely true to what we said in our plan, which was, if there is a dilution of earnings, we will compensate it by share buyback. Obviously, EUR 4.5 billion will lead to a significant share buyback.
Again, we can't say yet how much exactly, because it will be done when the deal closes, which is most likely, in summer next year. But if you were to take the values of the half year, it's about EUR 3.5 billion. I'll leave it there because I'm sure we are going into much more detail during the Q&A. Thank you.
Great. So maybe let's run through your different business lines, and starting on P&C. How are you feeling about personal lines, P&C today? Do you think pricing is in an adequate place across your markets?
The P&C retail business for us it's an important part of the business. It goes back to what I said earlier around the balance between B2B and B2C. We have certainly always looked that the pricing is adequate in all the markets, and it was not always easy because COVID represented a very extraordinary situation in which we had low frequency and you know not much car use. Whereas we are now in a phase where we are back to normality, and we had to adjust our way going forward. In two markets it was more difficult than in others in the U.K. and in Germany.
And you've seen that, by half year, we had to make an extra effort in getting the pricing back in line, which we have succeeded to do.
There have been a lot of discussions on Germany in particular, which seems to be worsening for a lot of players in personal lines, P&C. Is that what you're seeing, or are the measures that you've taken in the last 12 months already good enough?
Yeah, I can't comment on other players in Germany. I can just tell you what we have done. We have increased the prices significantly. If you give an example, the motor price increase was roughly 18% 1st of January this year. And you have seen by half year that the numbers in Germany are in line. So we are at a level where we want to be. It is true that not everybody has followed that journey, but I believe that others will continue now to follow that journey. Which means that probably in those markets where there is still a need, a general need to increase prices, you will see price increases again.
The flip side of having been early and proactive on pricing across your geographies is that growing volumes has been a bit more difficult outside of France. Do you think now you're... Given you're in a better place than a lot of competition in many markets, do you think you're in a good place to grab some market share now and increase volumes?
Yeah, so we always said during the plan period of three years, the front end is very much loaded with probably a higher focus on price increase and therefore a little lower focus on actual volume increase. And that depends very much line by line. So in the commercial line space, we're at 50-50, whereas in retail, where it's more pricing driven, probably at 80-20. Over time of the plan, it will shift to more volume growth and less price increase, because obviously we want to make sure that we take the necessary measures at the beginning of the plan where necessary, and this was particularly in Germany and the U.K. Over time, up to 2026, you will see a shift into more volume growth, driven through more actual new business.
You mentioned France. This is one of the markets where we have already shifted into that mode.
Yep. If we move from personal lines to commercial lines, we've all been expecting the slowdown and the cycle in commercial line pricing for a while now. It's happened in parts of your book, but it's been a lot slower than we expected. And actually, Europe has been holding up very well. Can you give us an update on where you see the cycle?
So, I mean, this question is a little bit like the question around interest rates. Everybody is assuming interest rates will go down, but then, at the long end, interest rates will go up. So I think we have to be a bit more precise on what we're talking about. This market is very big. You have many different lines of business. Yes, you see some lines of business in which there is pressure on the price. We mentioned that around U.S. D&O. You can see it at the moment a little bit in cyber as well, although I don't understand why, but you do see it. But you see many other lines where the price increase is still very high.
If you look into our numbers, let's take AXA XL as an example, because it's a good basket of many, many lines of business. We have achieved 7% top line growth, despite the fact that two lines have suffered a little bit. I think that is exactly the answer to your question. Yes, we will see some lines of business where there is a bit of pressure. However, if you have a diversified portfolio of exposures to many lines, in particular, lines where we still have price increases, overall, we are able to compensate it.
We spend a lot of time on XL, but the European commercial work has been doing very well.
It's even doing better. So, hey, you don't even see any line of business where there's pressure. I've taken the example, which is really, which is the most, visible one in this.
And for Europe, what, what do you think will bring the cycle to an end?
Quite honestly, very little, because in Europe we are not in the same segment as we are in XL. XL is very much the larger accounts. In Europe, we have mid-market and SME, where there is actually the opposite. You have a situation today in which many of the small and medium-sized companies are actually under-insured.... So when you think about D&O for a small lawyers firm, when you think about cyber for a mid-sized companies, these are not lines of business that are represented today in those companies. And certainly in the European SME, which is about half of our commercial line exposure, we see P&C exposure, we see significant growth.
Okay. With all of that in mind, and shifting back to XL, it's been. H1 has been a very good period. Record earnings, 88% combined ratio. In your 2026 ambition, you've assumed a conservative and normalizing market for XL. What does that mean in practice?
It means essentially that we can hold margin, and that we can make sure that in those lines of businesses where there is some pressure, again, I believe there's only a few, that we will react to it in a way that we are not underwriting as much as we used to. So if you look at, let's take a very concrete example, at the U.S. professional and D&O, we have pulled back out of this market quite significantly because there were more players coming into it, and we said: Look, we're not playing this game of underpriced business. But you didn't see any of that if you looked at the whole of XL. And again, this is the way we're going to do it.
We always try and strive for diversified businesses, not only at the group level, 50-50, B2C, B2B, but also within each company to have a portfolio that is, let's say, weathering every cycle.
So if we're being a bit more specific on the XL primary side, we've seen a little bit of a pickup in volume after years of restructuring. Where do you think you can grow XL primary business today?
I think what you see today, 5%-7% growth is possible at that level, for two reasons. One, there is actually more demand for risks. You mentioned earlier, climate change, you mentioned cyber, so we see actually more demand. And secondly, we have some areas at XL, where we have what we would call white spots. So if you look in the U.S., there is a derivative of the large commercial market, which is the mid-market. We have not at all been present in this market. We have entered this market now in a few states, in a few lines of business with a few brokers to grow into it slowly, in a controlled manner, but that has been very promising.
We will do the same on the so-called excess and surplus market, where we are not present today. And then if you look in Europe, we have a situation in which we have XL with the very top businesses and the local general insurance entities, more in the SME, so the butcher, the bakery, and so on. In the middle is more or less quite empty. And we have found a model of collaboration between XL that is delivering the underwriting expertise and the local entity that is delivering the footprint and the local relationship to grow the mid-market business.
Again, if you look into our figures half year, you will see that in quite a few markets, Italy, Spain, U.K., Germany, France, that there is actually quite a big growth momentum in this area.
Understood. If we move from XL Primary to XL Re, there also you had very good results in H1. Are you happy with the mix of exposure at XL Re today, and especially on the catastrophe side?
XL Re, for a long time, I would say, a problem child, because it didn't make any money. And so we had to go hard about it in restructuring the company. Simplifying it, in making sure that we also changed the portfolio composition because we had too much natural catastrophe risk. We cut the natural catastrophe risk twice by 40%, and today we are in a situation in which XL Re is not only delivering profit, but if you look at, and always take a full year cycles, if you look at last year, it was the best performing entity with the lowest combined ratio. And if the first half of this year is an indication for the rest of the year, they could probably make that title again.
So yeah, look, it has been tough. We also have reduced it, so it used to be roughly EUR 5 billion premium, now it's about three point whatever, four or five. But it doesn't matter. Size doesn't matter, I mean, at this level, because often in reinsurance, size is linked to the rating, and the rating we've got anyway. So whether we are EUR 3.5 billion, EUR 3.8 billion, or EUR 4 billion, it doesn't make a difference. And so we want to grow this business, but want to grow it in a very controlled manner. So you'll probably never see EUR 10 billion or EUR 20 billion, but you might see 3.8 or 3.7 or 3.9 .
And certainly, we've been lucky with big natural catastrophes this year and the year where everyone is expecting a lot to happen. We'll see about-
Yeah, it's the middle of the season, that's why I would be cautious on this one. So far, you're absolutely right-
Yeah
... David, but, going forward, we're in the middle of season.
With all the changes on the cat exposure, what does a bad Atlantic hurricane look like for XL today?
Okay. It depends very much, I mean, which event, which trajectory, and so on. So you can't say it in general, but certainly what I can say is that we have reduced significantly the per event risk. This was part of the big restructuring of XL. It was not just to increase prices.... It was to restructure our exposure, so that individual events do not create volatility. And you've seen, I mean, from the Baltimore bridge to CrowdStrike to whatever, all of these examples have been examples in which, and New Caledonia as well, in which the average claim that we expected was more or less insignificant relative to the total size of AXA.
There have been discussions and rumors for a long time on XL Re, and I don't want you to comment on any of those.
I wouldn't comment on it anyway.
Maybe to ask you this differently, are there skills or synergies between XL Re and the rest of the group that are valuable to you?
So definitely, because with XL Re, we get into markets that we don't get in the primary markets. XL Re increases the diversification that we have overall for AXA. So if you look, for example, we have a very limited exposure in the P&C business in Japan. We have a limited exposure, very limited exposure in the P&C business in Australia. But in order to optimize the overall diversification, we can do that through AXA XL Re. And as I said earlier, we've made a significant effort in restructuring AXA XL Re, and if you were to sell it, I don't think you would make such an effort.
I was going to move to the life insurance business, unless there are questions in the room on P&C. No, I don't see any hands.
I've seen on the slide you've promoted me.
Ah!
From CEO to CFO. That's good.
Oh, good spot. I'll make sure to ask you a lot of numbers questions at the end. On the-
Exactly.
On moving to life insurance, and it seems like we're heading in the right direction in Europe with lower lapses, new business picking up. What's your... How do you see the market today?
So in life insurance, we went, I would say, from one extreme to the other extreme, and we now need to find a better balance. What does it mean? We came from an AXA that was heavily exposed to life insurance, heavily exposed to General Account. Remember, in the good old days of life insurance, we were, 80% of our profit came from life insurance. Today, not even 20% of the profit comes from life insurance, and we have shifted the portfolio from a General Account portfolio to a unit link portfolio, essentially. When you look going forward, with rates where they are, with customer demands where they are, customer demand is very much heading in the direction of saying, "Look, yes, I want upside.
Yes, I'm ready to bear some risk, but I also want a couple guarantees." And so, this rebalancing to say, "Look, where do we find a unit-linked proposition with selected guarantees that are not too expensive?" So more guarantees at maturity. This is probably the way where we could accelerate growth and where we should accelerate growth. I think, as we said earlier, the P&C business, I think, is in great shape, on the health business is in great shape. On the life business, I would like to see a bit more growth, and we are working on this to put this in place in short order.
Are the products in the right place to face this evolution of demand?
So that's what I'm saying. We have got a couple of markets in which we could do more. So if you look at France, if you look at Germany, if you look at Belgium, if you look at Switzerland, if you look at Japan, just to name a few, there I believe with a proposition that is more balanced, so a unit linked with a little bit more guarantee, again not a heavy guarantee like general account, I believe we could enhance growth, and we will do it.
Does the sale of your asset management change anything in the life strategy, given you're not collecting asset management fees anymore?
No, because I think the asset management business and the life insurance business is very different. Because when I was talking about the sale of AXA IM, I should have been more precise. Essentially, we have sold the operations of asset management. We have not sold the question around asset allocation, the question around asset liability optimization, the question around solvency optimization. So all of these functions remain within AXA. And so we have now, with the combination of BNP and AXA IM, a much better exposure to product categories that we were not operating ourselves at all. So if you think about, I would say the weaker spots of AXA IM, we didn't have a great equity franchise. BNP has it. We had no ETFs. BNP has it.
So we have access now to a bigger and broader range of products. And secondly, as you know, you're always more gentle to a family member than to somebody you have married away with somebody else.
On the in-force management side, staying on the relationship with asset management, it's... You've already done quite a lot, but does it change anything for deals you could make in the future if the assets are managed by a third party?
No. And look, I mean, we don't have that much left. I mean, we probably have one portfolio left in Germany that we have not yet managed to sell. But as I said, we went from 80% life insurance to under 20%. If you were to sell more portfolios, it would not be economically you know, sensible anymore to do it.
... Understood. Moving from the savings business to health. So there, the U.K. was a big emphasis during your strategic presentation, and you've already done. We've already seen the result of your actions in the first half, and that gets you to probably half of your target in that business. What's the other half of the improvement driven by?
Yeah, we said we want to improve combined ratio by 200 basis points over the plan. Half of that comes from these portfolio restructurings. U.K. P&C Retail, U.K. Health, and then Germany P&C Retail. This one is on a very good journey. We now have to see through the year, but I have no doubt that we will achieve what we need to achieve. The other half comes from a collection of different business where we just, you know, tune the business even finer. I mean, do not forget, the performance of our P&C business in retail or in commercial is at a very high level.
You mentioned the 88% combined ratio, that is at a level that many people would have not imagined it would be possible. So but yes, half of it, big restructuring in those two countries, the other half, multiple actions. But all of the actions in the plan are well identified. So we used about 18 months to work with our local entities to design that plan. And the plan that you've seen summarized in 1 Slide earlier is basically the sum of all the initiatives that we have built together with the entities.
Yeah. There's a very clear execution plan, and if something doesn't work, we know exactly where to poke.
I see you've been.
I've been promoted again. Oh, no, I don't know. I'm not sure. CFO is interesting.
Maybe that's more a CFO question, actually, but thinking about profitability and in health can be. It's obvious to see the attraction of growing in health, the health and protection gap. When thinking about profitability, it's quite a bit harder. What would you say the ROE in your health business is today?
The ROE of our health business, there should be no reason why it shouldn't be at the same level, as the group, ROE, and we are managing it towards it, because, the health business is an interesting business for us. It's a growing business. As you mentioned, there's much more demand, on the corporate side because, post-COVID, companies, do care even more about, the well-being of their employees. And secondly, you have much more, business shifting from where it's possible, from state-owned or from state-operated, insurance schemes, to, private schemes. And I think, for those of you who live in this country, you know what I'm talking about. So, there is a big growth dynamic.
What is important in health is that you manage your claims well, and that you also manage prevention of these claims well. That's where you make your money. And so, we are quite a big health player, because if you put the health business and the employee benefits together, we have roughly EUR 20 billion in premium, which is not nothing. And so, we have plenty of markets in which we operate exactly under this logic and where we achieve those return on equities.
Thank you. I was going to move to cash and balance sheet management. Again, if there are any questions on life or health? Okay. So on capital management, you've been very clear on this at the CMD on your ambition to return to cash flows you're generating. On the stock of cash, it's in a very good place, and it's going to be even better as you're not distributing all of the proceeds from AXA IM. You're spending a little bit in Italy, but there's still some left after that. How should we think about your priorities for your excess cash today?
By the way, the Italian money we had to spend, now we can't wait. So, priority on cash management, I mean, look, for me, it's very clear. First hierarchy, dividend. Second hierarchy is, share buybacks. Third hierarchy is, reinvestment in the business. And then if there's any money left, we are looking at deals, smaller deals like the Nobis deal you've seen, in order to increase our position in existing markets where we need a bit more scale. And those markets are very clearly defined. We're talking about four, five markets, that's it.
Very cool.
And this logic is very clear in the company, and so, nobody comes with any propositions that are not fitting into these criteria.
Are you able to share a little bit more on, on that, those four or five markets?
I can, yeah. So I mean, one is U.S. commercial. So I mentioned earlier mid-market and excess and surplus. One other market is Germany. A third market is Italy. You've seen Nobis fits into that. A fourth market is Spain, and the fifth market is Japan. That's it.
Okay. And on the holding cash position, before you were targeting EUR 1 billion-EUR 3 billion, is that a number that's still relevant for AXA?
Yes. I mean, even though we are now in a very different setting. So, the EUR 1 billion-EUR 3 billion was in a time in which the holding company was a normal company. Now, we are obviously in a setting in which the holding company is a reinsurance company. So by definition, a reinsurance company has much more cash than that, but we are looking to keep the EUR 1 billion-EUR 3 billion in exactly the same logic.
Okay. Thinking about cash conversion, which has been on the path of improvement over the last few years, quite clearly, and now around 80%, as the group is with new business, further shifting away from traditional life to health to protection, where cash conversion is better. Should we assume that the 80% is kind of a starting point from this, for this plan and will gradually get better?
Look, I think we are always aiming for the 80% to increase, but and you're absolutely right, so the shift in policy of the life business, where there's a roll-off of more traditional business with lower remittance to business that has a faster remittance. Yes, but this will take some time because those contracts have a long duration. But obviously, we are very proud that we came to 80%, and we're trying everything to get higher, but it will never get to 100%, because remember, we're investing 25% of the profits back into the business-
Yeah. which also needs some capital.
Yeah. On the other side of the balance sheet is debts, where you're in a very good place, and you have a target to not increase this. With the sale of AXA IM, your balance sheet is actually reducing. Should we now think that you would reduce your debt stack at all?
Look, we haven't decided that yet, but the debt stack is at a good level, as you said. We have to refinance a bit of debt, and we did anticipate some of it. That's why you saw a little uptick in the gearing, but this is only temporary, so to be seen. We haven't decided yet.
Okay. Maybe lastly on this topic is asset allocation. You've talked about earlier the new skills that your partner is able to, that well do better than AXA IM. Should we see changes to your asset allocation coming from that?
I don't think so. You shouldn't see changes, but you should probably see the utilization of a broader asset spectrum. So by that definition, yes, you will have a bit of change, but the general logic will not change.
Okay.
Because the logic was always: How do you diversify as much as you can? How can you make sure you've got your finger in every pie without having it in too deeply? And, I mean, you've seen if you go through the various events from Silicon Valley Bank to Credit Suisse and others, you have never seen any tears coming from our eyes or face.
Thank you. I wanted to touch on a topic that we've been talking a lot about in recent weeks, which is French politics. Again, no, I don't want to make assumptions on the next government, the next presidential elections or anything like this, but is this something that worries you? Or maybe not worries you, but where you can see business implications?
So, I mean, the fact is that when you look between Macron's second presidential election and now, we have had two phases. We have had a minority government, and we had no government. And I would say the impact around what has happened to businesses both positive and negative was relatively marginal. There was hardly anything happening. We're coming now into a new phase in which the situation of instability will be prolonged, but where there is one element, important element, which is the budget that needs to be passed. And so I would say on general issues around reforms and so on, I do not expect big things to happen because.
Yeah in an unstable environment, it's difficult to find majority. So, I believe that we'll see a phase up to the next presidential election, whenever it is, in normal circumstances in 2027, where you see little happening on general reforms. Nevertheless, the question will come now: What will happen on the budget side? And since the budget has to be presented to the parliament on the 1st of October, which is next week, and since there was very little time to really work on a budget, I would assume, but again, I have no details, that you will find a budget that has some elements of reduction of expenses and another part where it's about increasing revenue of the government.
Do you think the uncertainty on where all of this will land can lead to a bit of, you know, pressure, but not as strong growth as you'd like in French savings?
So I mean, personally, I don't understand where the uncertainty comes from, because, again, if you look at what could happen, you know, we could be taxed on share buybacks, like what the Americans are doing. I mean, this is not changing our policy and the amounts that are due are fairly limited. We could lose some of the advantages on the investments, so-called flat tax. When you look at it, the flat tax does actually concern all investments. If it is reduced in its advantage, the advantage that remains on life insurance is actually higher, because the advantage on life insurance is the fact that you can have a good arrangement around inheritance.
So if the flat tax is being reduced, I don't believe that it will have a negative impact on life insurance, and people are waiting now because they don't know what's going to happen. Once it's clear what's going to happen, then there will be move forward. Then there is another opportunity, for example, an exceptional increase in corporate taxes. There again, I would look very carefully who pays what kind of tax in France. And yes, when you look at AXA, we have 20% of our business that is the French business. But don't forget, we also have the holding company in France that carries all the debt, and debt does create interest. So if you make your math, you'll see that I'm quite relaxed about these topics.
Basically, for French savings, the only big change that could happen is in inheritance tax, where I don't think there's been any discussion. Is that correct?
Look, I have I, I'm in my ninth year of the CEO of AXA. I have seen, in nine years, 15 temptations of changing the regime around the inheritance tax. Every time, it hasn't happened. Because don't forget, if you look at where is the average French saving, it is in life insurance. The other kind of, more, advantaged, fiscally advantaged, schemes, like the, which like the plan, the, like, where you can have a plan, to invest in shares, has never taken off. And so because we need savings in France and because, through the retirement, reform that will most likely not be, touched in its fundamentals, the retirement age has been increased, which means that, retirement benefit have been reduced.
So, the French state has always had an incentive in pushing private savings. And from that perspective, I do believe on the flat tax, there could be a debate, but on the inheritance privilege, I'm quite certain that will not be touched.
Okay. It's good to hear,
But again, I'm not a politician, and I don't want to become a politician.
Yeah. And then beyond something more insurance related, then is beyond the operational implications. I think the read from, especially foreign investors, is the first thing that comes to mind is the dividend ban that we had during COVID, and pricing pressure from the government on P&C that we had in the past in France. Do you think the times of these things is behind us?
I think, look, time heals wounds. If I go back to the second part first, so the question around, you know, pressure on price increases. Again, my personal learning over nine years, when you start your job, the Minister of Finance is more seen as God. When you are doing this for a couple of years, you see that the relationship becomes a little bit more balanced, and over time, we have learned to say no. And so, you have never seen these approaches over the last couple of years, and you have never seen, if there were any approaches, that we followed the approaches. When it comes to the dividend ban, I think this was the same thing. It was a brutal reaction at the time of COVID.
By the way, I might remind you that we did pay 50% of the dividend, despite the fact that there was a dividend ban. Today, the regulator has adopted a very different and I think a much more pragmatic approach, that they say, "Okay, in a moment of crisis, we look at your balance sheet strength, so Solvency II ratio, and we look at your sensitivities around the balance sheet." The sensitivities that they put on us are quite hard. For example, we get the sensitivities of the banking sector, where you also have scenarios like interest rate shocks that happens every 1000 years.
But, with a Solvency II ratio of 227%, we have easily passed many of these discussions. That's why share buybacks and dividends with the regulator, that's not even a 2-minute discussion.
Thank you, Thomas. I think the time is up, so we'll leave it here. Thank you, Thomas, for your time.
Thank you.