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Earnings Call: Q2 2021

Jul 27, 2021

Operator

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Dassault Systèmes 2021 Q2 and half-year earnings presentation. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker presentation, there will be a question- and- answer session. To ask a question, you need to press star one on your telephone. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded Tuesday, 27th July 2021. I'll now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, François Bordonado, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

François Bordonado
VP of Investor Relations, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Nadia. This is François Bordonado speaking, Dassault Systèmes Investor Relations. From the company, we have Bernard Charlès, our Vice Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, and Pascal Daloz, Chief Operating Officer and Chief Financial Officer. I hope that all of you and your family are adoing well, and I would like to welcome you to Dassault Systèmes' second quarter and half year 2021 webcast presentation. At the end of the presentation, we'll take questions from participants. Later today, we will also hold a conference call. Dassault Systèmes results are prepared in accordance with IFRS. Most of the financial figures in this conference call are presented on a non-IFRS basis, with revenue growth rate in constant currencies unless otherwise noted. For an understanding of the differences between the IFRS and non-IFRS, please see the reconciliation tables included in our press release.

Some of the comments we'll make during today's presentation will contain forward-looking statements, which could differ materially from actual results. Please refer to our risk factors in our 2020 Document. I will now hand over to Bernard Charlès.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, François. Hello, everyone. It's good to have this mid-year review with you for the Dassault Systèmes 2021 second quarter on the full year perspective that, as François said, I will share with Pascal. Total revenue was up 15%. You have seen that in the press release, I'm sure, by now. The license revenue is up 38%, excluding exchange rate. By the way, all this is organic. Recurring revenue, up 10%, excluding exchange rate, which represent, by the way, 79% of revenue. As a result, the EPS is up 35%, would be 45% up for the EPS if we were to exclude the exchange effect. Basically, we believe that those numbers confirms a few things which are important to us, important to our clients and partners. The systematic approach to virtualization, really becoming now in all industries.

We do use virtualization because we think it's the next step after simple digitalization of documents. Of course, the imperative of sustainable development. We'll come back on this. It's indeed reshaping the innovation process, and we have very interesting data point on that aspect, too. As well as the inclusiveness, which basically is about better connecting people within companies and across virtual enterprise. We continue to be making the difference with our clients, basically leveraging fully the virtual twin experience on everything we do, including doing the virtual twin of Dassault Systèmes itself. We believe that it's a game changer for all sectors of the economy, and we shared with you, with Pascal early last year that our intent is to be a key player in both AEC, health, and infrastructure.

We are, as a result of that, and Pascal will articulate it, raising our 2021 guidance on targeting EPS growth of about 19%-21%, which would be 23%-25% if we were to exclude exchange rate. Some highlights, which basically are really proof points about our belief. Our belief, and this is a long-term perspective, our belief is that the virtual world extend and improve the real world. I think there are good stories today, as we did first quarter, which are illustrating this very well. The second aspect of it is the platform phenomenon. Its adoption across the board. It's known in retail. I think it's going to happen in manufacturing, construction, and healthcare, too.

This is why we think we are extremely well-positioned, with the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, to really connect modeling, simulation, and data together to really create what we call the virtual twin of the experience economy. Again here, quite interesting illustrations on that. Another factor that is well illustrated with numbers this quarter is the dynamic of the mainstream. The dynamic of the mainstream market, what we call mainstream market, is really this inclusiveness of using the platform as a collaborative platform. I believe that working together anytime, anywhere, from any device, having a browser-based, cloud-based solutions is very differentiating, and it is a differentiating thing for Dassault Systèmes. We have, of course, and that's the value of being browser-based and cloud-based, as you can see with our offer. The dynamic here is very strong. China is quite interesting second quarter 2021.

More than 220 cloud wins in one quarter for China. It means we are trusted, we have the right infrastructure, and this adoption shows that we provide a good, secure environment. As you know, the world of mainstream for us, mainly represented by SOLIDWORKS, is about 1 million plus commercial users. It's about 250,000 clients, and with an average of 20,000 per year. We believe that this track record will sustain. Another important aspect of mainstream is: What about mainstream PLM? I think the illustration this quarter about the performance of Centric PLM is another asset of this dynamic of adoption of product lifecycle management across the board. Centric PLM is now reaching about 500 companies. 2,000 highly reputed brands are trusting Centric PLM, and 99% of retention rate. Most of the customers, above 90%, are accepting to be referenced in their industries.

You see here the incredible logo dynamic between 2016-2021. As you may remember, we will be buying the remaining share of Centric PLM this coming August, which means that this is a fully powerful entering brand for Dassault Systèmes' future. Back to the way we show you the proof points, the reasons to believe. We look at the three sector of the economy, and we look at both manufacturing industry, life science and healthcare, and infrastructure and cities. Let's review what are the trends there. Clearly, the trends are, they are commonality. Market product and services. Move from supply chain to value chain. Sustainable innovation. I see those three factors becoming very poignant in those three sectors of the economy, which are connecting industries together because high tech is, for example, everywhere. More to be discussed on that. Let's review on the first health sector.

Of course, we are very pleased with the Medidata move. The team on the cooperation on the integration of Medidata is going extremely well. Pascal might comment a few things. We are very pleased to announce that Novavax has used the new world of Medidata distributed, decentralized clinical trial. Three studies involving 45,000 participants were initiated in less than eight weeks. I think it's a world record. I think that it shows that sponsor-based, centralized clinical trial are also moving to decentralized, meaning that the patients are not in the hospital infrastructure, they are participating from home. This is thanks to MyMedidata and thanks to Medidata Patient Cloud, which are really the extension of the Medidata brands that are really proving to be world best solutions. At this point in time, just for information, we have about 400 related clinical trial regarding the COVID-19. It's not stopping.

I hope at the end, we will be able to stop this pandemic, which is rather complex today in the world. The point is decentralized Medidata expansion in portfolio, fast adoption, platform-based on mega studies. Another good illustration in health is LabCorp, drug development, adopting Medidata Sponsor Cloud. This is a quite interesting approach. It's basically IoT for health. Sponsor Cloud is about taking this acquisition of data in a seamless way, collect those data for clinical trials. I believe that this sector will also evolve quickly with very smart med tech, personalized med tech. Digital biomarker discovery. The first project will be an at-home version of the six-minute walk test that you can read here. We are very excited to have this infrastructure leveraging MC10 acquisition. You remember this small acquisition we announced a few weeks ago.

Playing a key role, we see that as a major avenue for fast acquisition, IoT-based on the platform of personalized data in a very structured and professional way that we call clinical trial. Also proof points here in another sector of consumer package and production is Boticário Group, which is adopting the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. It's a leading beauty company and world's largest beauty franchise. It's well-known because they are known for using natural ingredients. The business value that they are really seeing here is really about transforming their manufacturing processes, reducing inventory cost on the effect, managing irregular product supply, improving the compliancy, and of course, all this contributing to competitiveness.

The solution we sold them, the industry solution, is called Perfect Production, which I think is the right naming for this. Notice that in the fast-moving consumer goods, the reformulation area is a massive priority for sustainable justification. Another illustration is in the manufacturing sector is Alstom adopting the 3DEXPERIENCE platform to really integrate worldwide recent acquisition of Bombardier, for example. They are adopting a cloud platform for all the PLM, across the group. The rollout is happening this year, throughout 2021 and 2022, and we will reach at least 15,000 cloud-based 3DEXPERIENCE platform users. Basically, they are exploiting three industry solutions. The one we call Smart, Safe and Connected. This is for system and cyber system. Global Modular Architecture, it says what it does. Lean Production Run, which is about optimizing production system.

The last two remarks on that sector is in the high-tech, Honor, expansive new adoption, well-known brand. It's a spinoff of Huawei, and they do smartphone, tablets, laptops, whatever. They are accelerating the go-to market, improving their R&D process, including the value chain, and they are using multi-physic simulation for all the product integration. High-tech has been a good dynamic. I think Pascal will make some remark later on on that in this quarter. Related to the evolution of flow management, the example of DELMIA Quintiq or KiwiRail is a good example of how we can improve global service on fleet management, on crew planning. This is an excellent illustration to improve visibility of operations, improve health and safety and sustainability of the system. Of course, improve the utilization of their assets, in this case, the wagon assets.

Improve the business agility to provide fast answer to the demand, in a very disrupted world, especially in the context of the pandemic and in the context of supply issues in many area of the world. It improves their profitability. Before I talk about sustainability, I think we have a small video for you. Professor Jose, please launch the video.

Speaker 9

Consumers believe in a more sustainable future. CPG companies who can deliver it stand to gain a competitive advantage, and they can shift sustainability clearly into focus when they leverage scientific capabilities to identify new material properties at a molecular level, conceptualize and qualify packaging designs rapidly, plan an optimized manufacturing and logistics approach, and make the circular economy an integral part of a product's life cycle. Deliver a new generation of sustainable packaging with the power of the virtual twin, fueled by science on the 3DEXPERIENCE platform.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

This is a short video that illustrates the importance of the role we can play, what we call the imprint role we can play, contributing to sustainable innovation for the world in all sector of the economy we are serving. We are also applying this theme for ourself, of course, with what we call science-based targets. It was approved, and we published our engagement on that for net zero emission with a timeline which is now set up. SBTi is important because there is a lot of situation and a lot of statement about sustainability. I think having it being science-based is important. We believe that this has the merit of accelerating also the value of a PLM approach, so people can understand what is happening in their businesses.

We have announced that we will reach the net zero by 2040 via carbon removal projects, which is very key. We can debate about the fact that should it be 2040 or 207. To me, I think we will report regularly on our progress there. I think being science-basedProvide a rigor on a professional approach to it and helps our customer find out the way they should approach for their own business. We believe that the 3DEXPERIENCE platform is a key catalyst and an enabler for this to happen. We think that in this area, we are transforming all our industry solution experiences. They will include, as we go on, we are going to make available on the market what we call the R2022x around the end of this year, 2022 market. We are integrating in this solution many things, sustainable design.

We have a good illustration with Nabtesco or with Amcor Rigid Plastics here for sustainable design, sustainable production with Amy's Kitchen, for example, where they are really transforming using the platform on sustainable experience. Good illustration with NIO electrical vehicle innovator in China or aviation aircraft or new type of electrical airplane for a mid-range distance. A lot of projects, whether in formulation, packaging, industrial equipment, home equipment or production, where the illustrations of our footprint can be measured and is tangible. We believe that we are executing to plan, and people are joining Dassault Systèmes because they love the purpose of Dassault Systèmes to provide this 3DEXPERIENCE universe to imagine sustainable innovation capable of harmonizing product nature and life. I believe more than ever with the last quarters, we have been illustrating that. With that, Pascal, you have the floor to provide the necessary numbers.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Bernard. Good morning to all of you, and thank you for joining us today. Turning to our financial performance, I think we deliver strong second quarter results thanks to the broad-based growth across region and product lines. Total revenue increased 14% year-over-year to EUR 1.16 billion at the top of our 12%-14% range. Software revenue and its components also came in at the high end of our objectives, with an organic software growth reaching 15% and reaching EUR 1.1 billion. License and other revenue rose 38% to EUR 223 million during the quarter. Looking at the first half, we are now back to 2019 levels. I think it is something very important. Subscription and support revenue increased 10% year-over-year, driven by subscription growth of 18%. As Bernard said, the recurring revenue represented 79% of the software revenue this quarter.

Services revenue was up 5%, finally back to growth year-over-year, of course, and show a significant sequential improvement, as you can see. We achieve also a services gross margin in the double digits, also substantially better versus last year, because you remember last year, we took many actions in order to preserve the profitability despite the lack of activity. The 3DEXPERIENCE and cloud revenue both perform well, growing 26% year-over-year. From a profitability standpoint, lower than planned expenses are combined with revenue at the high end of the guidance led to a significant outperformance in operating margin and earnings per share. As you can see, our operating margin came in at a 32.2% and EPS grew 35 or 45% in constant currency to EUR 0.22 compared to our guidance of 18%-23%. Let's move to the software revenue by regions.

The Americas grew 19% this quarter, benefiting from a strong performance in life sciences and healthcare, high tech, and transportation and mobility. Now the Americas represent 39% of the non-IFRS software revenue. Europe increased 13%, led by Southern Europe, Totaled 36% of the total software revenue. Asia also rose 13%. Within the region, we saw continuing strength from China, which grew 24% and continued also software in Japan. Zooming now in on our product lines, the second quarter performance, industrial innovation software revenue rose 8% to EUR 571 million. To be noted that CATIA, the world's leading solution in product design and modeling experiences, delivers sales growth of 9%, punctuated by a CATIA Cyber Systems. NETVIBES in the data intelligence and ENOVIA in collaborations also benefited from positive business trend during the periods.

Zooming in life sciences, software revenue amount for EUR 218 million, an increase of 22%. We continue to see a strong momentum across Medidata product portfolio, including Medidata Rave, Medidata Patient Cloud, and also Medidata Acorn AI, as well as what we call the attach rate, because you know we have the core module, but you have also another lot of solutions surrounding those core modules. Medidata is also establishing itself as a leader in decentralized clinical trial. This trend is becoming significant for this industry, and we are uniquely positioned because not only we have the set of solutions to connect the patients, but we also have all the back-end systems in order to connect with the sponsor, which is unique on the market. That's the reason why, as Bernard said, in many of the new trials, we are winning the market share.

Trust me, in many, many cases, we are also displacing Veeva. In the mainstream innovations, software revenue rose 27% to EUR 262 million. Within the mainstream, the SOLIDWORKS software revenue rose 25% with the 3DEXPERIENCE Works family. The cloud-based solution sales also up sharply during the periods. Finally, Centric PLM delivered an excellent performance, posting near triple digit growth and continue to take market share against the traditional players in this space. At the same time, we are also expanding outside of the fashion industry, in food and beverage, in the high-tech, in all the cosmetics, also becoming a significant segment for Centric PLM. Now, let's review our key growth strategy. 3DEXPERIENCE on Cloud and how we are progressing relatively to the objective we laid out during the 2020 capital market day. Our 3DEXPERIENCE strategy incorporates two axes of growth.

With Value Up, we are increasing the value we bring to our existing customer. With Value Wide, we are extending our value to new customers. As I mentioned, 3DEXPERIENCE sales grew 26% during the quarter and now represent 25% of the total software revenue, an increase of almost 200 basis points relatively to last year. Importantly, the 3DEXPERIENCE drove a number of significant large clients wins during the periods, reflecting into the 55% growth of the license since the beginning of the year. Turning to the cloud. Cloud adoption is another cornerstone of our strategy and afford an opportunity to expand our depth and breadth of our clients. Our cloud contribution representing 19% of the total software revenue, a two-point increase relatively compared to last year.

You may recall that last year, based on our hand market sector, we set the goal to reach EUR 2 billion in cloud software revenue by 2025, this would represent an estimated of one-third of the total software revenue. In terms of cloud strategy, we value the long term. You know, it's one of our specific DNA we have and the strategic relationship we have with our clients. As such, our cloud strategy is set to meet our clients where they are, in the context of the industry and whether they are the starting point from them. That's the reason why we are offering three different cloud paths. Native on the cloud for the new customers, specifically all the startups like the EV guys.

The extended, mixing both on-premise and on-the-cloud solutions when you want to complement a large installation you have with new capabilities, new solutions, for example, what we do in the simulations. Powered by with an on-premise software solution, specifically a SOLIDWORKS desktop and CATIA V5, connected to our 3DEXPERIENCE platform on the cloud for collaboration and data intelligence. To be noticed, and this is, I think, very important for you, that with the release of R2021x, we have now more roles on the cloud than we have on-premise, and we expect this trend to continue and be reinforced in the future. Let's move to the operating margin. As I said to you from a profitability standpoint, the lower than planned expenses, combined with the revenue at the high end of the guidance, led to a significant outperformance in operating margin.

Our operating margin came at 32.2% versus the midpoint of our guidance of 29.7%. It demonstrate an over-performance of almost 250 basis points. This was driven in part by the combination of the expenses and headcounts tailwinds we discussed with you last quarter. Our headcount was stable year-over-year as hiring was offset by attritions, and that was higher than planned, but in line with 2019 levels. Within research and development, we experienced a mid-single digit net gains in terms of new teams member. We have adjusted our hiring capacity, and we expect to more than offset the attrition in the coming quarter. That's very important. All this good performance is obviously translating into an EPS growth of 35%-45% in constant currency to €1.19 pre-split or EUR 0.22 post-split, and compared to our guidance of 18%-23%.

Let's move to the cash flow and the balance sheet. Turning back to our financial performance and to our balance sheet items, the year-to-date cash flow from operation rose 21% relative to last year to EUR 1 billion 30 million. You keep in mind that last year it took us three months to overachieve the billion. In six months, we have been capable to deliver the billion cash flow. Our deferred revenue, now called the contract liability, rose 17% in constant currency, which is relatively consistent with the operations. Finally, our net financial debt position at end of June decreased by EUR 768.3 million to less than EUR 1.2 billion debt, putting us on track to reach our deleveraging plan goals probably somewhere early next year, which is almost six months, if not nine months ahead of the schedule. Moving now to the M&A sections.

A few things to be noticed this quarter. In July, we acquire a French startups called Interop, an innovative SaaS companies leveraging BPMN 2.0 standards, which is nothing more than a neutral graphical language to provide business processes solution. Let me explain the rationale behind this. First of all, you know our platform is not only a technology to power our roles and solutions for design, manufacturing, engineering, but it's also, when you use the platform without the roles, a powerful business platform. Enabling the virtual twin of the enterprise and transforming document-based processes into experiences. Interop's technology will complement the Dassault Systèmes approach to empowering clients with effortless migrations from documents to experiences.

Together, Dassault Systèmes and Interop will enhance the 3DEXPERIENCE platform and the 3DS Outscale, because we will combine this technology with both to give the ability to leverage when it's fully integrated with 3DEXPERIENCE platform or as a standalone services with 3DS Outscale. Turning to Centric PLM, Bernard say a few words about it. We plan to complete our acquisition of Centric early this fall without a significant incremental cash payment. You may remember that we initiated a 63 equity stake in Centric in July 2018. We are more than happy to finalize our partnership and continue to execute against Centric PLM substantial opportunity in consumer industry. We are very pleased of what we did, not only in term of integration, but the ability to diversify Centric PLM far ahead of the traditional fashion industry.

The momentum you have seen recently is really the demonstration that this strategy's working. Chris and teams, you did a great job. Turning now to our 2021 financial objective. We expect the current business environment and profitability trends to persist in the second half. As a result, we are raising our fiscal year 2021 revenue growth objective range to EUR 4.745 billion-EUR 4.790 billion, incorporating obviously the second quarter outperformance and greater visibility, adding approximately EUR 10 million in software revenue coming from Medidata, specifically. Our new objective represent an increase of 10%-11% revenue growth versus to 9%-10% previously. We expect operating margin in the range of 32.7%-33.1% versus 31.6%-31.7% previously.

I want to remind you all that because of the pandemic, we implemented a cost-saving plan in the second quarter last year, and we expect the expense and headcount tailwinds we have experienced to dissipate in the coming quarter as we resume travel, increase sales and marketing spending, and also accelerate the net gains in hirings. We are raise finally our non-IFRS diluted EPS objective range to EUR 0.99-EUR 0.91 on a split adjusted basis of 23%-25% from 17%-18% in constant currency. This is capturing the earning upside from the second quarter, the increased visibility we have specifically coming from Medidata and the lower than expected expenses. You will find more detail about the full-year objective as well for our third quarter guidance in the earning press release and in the presentation deck.

I think it's time to conclude before to take the questions, and I have a few message I want to remind. First of all, we are encouraged by the demands, and we are seeing across our product lines and regions. We believe many of these trends are underpinned by secular drivers, as Bernard said. Highlight today, including virtualization, sustainability, inclusive environments. Those trends are really driving the demands and the transformation in many industries. With our 3DEXPERIENCE platform, we began preparing for this trend over a decade ago, and as such, we are uniquely positioned to help our clients to address these new imperatives well into the future. Finally, we succeed when our clients are succeeding.

We want to take an opportunity to thank all of our clients for their ongoing partnership and our employees also for the hard work they did and their dedications on our success. Lastly, we expect to resume in-person meetings with the investment community this fall, and I hope to see you again on the road. I think Bernard and I are now ready to take and answer to your question.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Nadia, we are ready for questions.

Operator

Thank you. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, you need to press star one on your telephone. To withdraw your question, press the hash key. First question comes from the line of Adam Wood from Morgan Stanley. Please ask your question.

Adam Wood
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Hi. Good morning, Bernard. Good morning, Pascal.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Adam

Adam Wood
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

another very strong quarter. Hi. I've got two, please. The first one just on the margins. Obviously, it's great to see margin upside in a quarter. I think we all know you want to invest for the future. Could you just talk a little bit about how relaxed you are about being able to make up for the attrition in the second half of the year, and if there are any implications for next year's margins, given how strong the margin improvement is going to be this year? Secondly, maybe a bigger picture question. I think when we've discussed in the past around the pace of growth at Dassault, one of the restrictions has been clients' ability to take a certain amount of change in the business and a reluctance to change, that they're only willing to take so much risk on in any one year.

As you look back over the last 12 months, do you think there's been some change there that companies now are willing to be more aggressive and want to transform more quickly? How does the focus on sustainability drive into that? Does that kind of accelerate that desire to change? Thank you.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Adam. Pascal, you want to take the first question?

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

You are right, Adam. The headcount has been a topic. Even if we did much better compared to Q1, because we hire a little bit more than 800 person in Q2 compared to 400 in Q1. The attritions was almost offsetting this number. Coming back to the second half, I have slightly increased the capacity in term of hiring in order to reach between 900-1,000 per quarter. I do expect to contain the attritions to roughly 500 per quarter. That's the goal. Related to the margin for next year, probably a little bit early to discuss it, but I thank you for the questions nevertheless, because I do not want you to draw the conclusion that we are capable to maintain the 33% margin we will expand this year for the coming years.

For next year, I do expect to be much more in the range of 31.8%-32%, is slightly below compared to this year because your point, we need to reinvest, especially to strengthen the sales team and also to give more capacity in research and development in certain area.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

The second, Adam, thank you for the second question related to our clients taking new risk in terms of transforming themselves thanks to platform on the digitalization. I think eyes are opening. Eyes are opening about the fact that sustainability has significant impact. Number one, the need to better understand which materials to use, which fabrics to use, which new process should be put in place, which new formulation for the related product. Can I do smarter products so they are better optimized throughout their life cycle? The last point is about the bill across the life cycle, the eco bill across the life cycle. I think the situation has never been as good to help understand what PLM is about, because it stands for Product Lifecycle Management. Up to now, the PLM has been adopted to create a digital reference of what you do and how you do it.

I think going forward, PLM will be used to do the virtual twin of the full cycle. Regulators are accelerating this trend. Conducting those transformations are very complex, Adam, I think we are the catalyst and the enabler for this to happen. It's going to take time. However, I believe that many of the decisions which we reflected on through my presentation and Pascal's presentation are truly driven from that perspective. It's there to last, we will see the implication for 2022, we are comfortable of the new dynamic it can create. The last remark is. Clearly in our mind, in my mind, the supply chain is moving to value chain. This is deep. This is not about optimizing just the one-to-one relationship. It's about optimizing the total. No one does that well today. We believe we can do it with the platform.

Good drivers, we will come back every quarter to illustrate why, what we call our on-trend to help be the catalyst and the enabler for that are happening. I think the showcase, the orientation we gave today are confirming exactly the positive trend toward your question, Adam.

Adam Wood
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Very helpful. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Stacy Pollard from JP Morgan. Please ask a question.

Stacy Pollard
Analyst, JPMorgan

Thank you. Thanks for taking my questions. A few from me. First of all, on mainstream, what % of new customers are purchasing cloud now? Really, I guess I should ask the same question for new purchases in the industrial sector, too. Perhaps it's a different dynamic there, but so the cloud question. Number two, on 3DEXPERIENCE, 25% of software revenues now, what would you expect that to be in, say, three years? Then third question, as you de-lever, at what point could we see larger, more transformative M&A?

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Stacy. Pascal, on the cloud.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Yeah. As you may know, SOLIDWORKS is almost gaining between 50 to 1,000 new customers every year. Right now, if I do the math, it's probably around 10% are starting with the cloud. China, only in one quarter, 220 new customers. With this, I think you have a good order of magnitude, and this is accelerating. For the industrial sector, I don't know if we should take the same approach because the question is not too much about the footprint, much more about the transformations. I think what could be noticed is we see more and more large incumbent companies moving to the cloud. You have seen Alstom is a good example of this. They are using it as a way to decommission the legacy system, to standardize, to facilitate the integrations.

As Bernard said, also to redefine the, what we used to call the value chains, much more along to the value network, because the cloud is giving this flexibility to do it. You could expect to see more and more large company moving with the cloud architecture and solutions. I think, with all the different set of solutions we have, whether it's a cloud you can share with others or a dedicated cloud or a sovereign cloud, I think we have the full range of different solutions in order to answer to all the different needs coming from the industrial sectors.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

3DEXPERIENCE dynamic adoption across the board. Clearly, to Pascal's point, the cloud portfolio is now overpassing the on-premise portfolio. Number two, the cloud portfolio is the future for mainstream. It's the current situation for Centric PLM. It's the current situation for Medidata. Using those platform-based approach, mainstream is also. Pascal mentioned the trend with 3DEXPERIENCE for large companies and more to come. There is no doubt in our mind that it simplifies everything. On the mechanics to address your question about 3DEXPERIENCE adoption is, as customers adopt a wider portfolio on the new generation, 3DEXPERIENCE is a condition, even on on-premise. The dynamic should continue to be very strong from that standpoint.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

We need to do well on what we are focusing now is making sure that the 3DEXPERIENCE platform can integrate customer legacy data or legacy tools, which are not necessarily our own software, to help them go to a platform approach. Those two factors are really strong factors. In a certain horizon, 3DEXPERIENCE is just a platform for every aspect of every solutions of Dassault Systèmes on the longer term. At some point in time, it will be reaching the prerequisite of platform infrastructure for everything we sell. The last question, Bernard.

Stacy Pollard
Analyst, JPMorgan

That's helpful. Thanks. Yes. The M&A.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Stacy, you asked another question, which was the last one related to M&A, right?

Stacy Pollard
Analyst, JPMorgan

Yeah.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Obviously, we will not answer to these questions during the call. Nevertheless, you are raising a good point because with the ability to deleverage the company, and being almost in a position to have no more debt somewhere early next year. This has given us the freedom not only to do the bolt-on acquisitions, know what we do with reinforcing our capabilities, continuing to infuse innovations with startups, but also to consider significant expansion. I think it's going to be a good topic for the capital market day next year.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Yeah.

Stacy Pollard
Analyst, JPMorgan

I will ask it again.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Welcome, Stacy.

Stacy Pollard
Analyst, JPMorgan

Thank you.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Next question, please.

Operator

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Briest from UBS. Please, your question.

Michael Briest
Analyst, UBS

Yeah. Thank you. Good morning. Very strong performance in Medidata. 22% in the first half. I think previously you were looking for 14% growth in the year. Pascal, I think you said the EUR 10 million increase for H2 relates to Medidata. That's about three points of full year growth. What are you actually expecting from Medidata this year? Somewhat related, just if I take out the cloud revenues from recurring software, I get about 6% growth. Do you think that's a rate that you can improve upon in 2022 and beyond, as the rest of the business, if you like, gets back to a healthier shape? Bernard, just on the infrastructure and cities market, Stacy was asking about M&A, we haven't seen a lot of progress there. Can you give us an update? Maybe around Altium.

I think, their talks with Autodesk finished recently. How important is that relationship with them around the sort of 3DEXPERIENCE side? I think you were looking to advance that, six or 12 months ago. Thanks.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Michael. Pascal, maybe data.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Okay. We start with the first one.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Yeah.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

You're right, Medidata did an outstanding performance H1. Remember, H2 last year was much better compared to H1 last year. If you remember, the revenue increased almost from 13% to more than 18%. I do expect to continue to have a good performance, but the base will, to a certain extent, lower the growth of Medidata in H2. That's the reason why, if I come back to the previous guidance, I gave to you the 15% range, and now I'm much more targeting 16% plus. That's what we are talking about. Related to the cloud, against the key things for us is really not to measure too much the contribution from a revenue standpoint, even if I set the target. It is much more related to the footprint. The footprint, we have different KPI to measure it.

One is obviously the number of users, and the second one is the volume of data we have in our cloud, because at the end, this is what it's about. Cloud is on one hand, the inclusiveness, the ability to connect as much as people as you can. On the other hand, is the ability to leverage the data to artificial intelligence, analytics. That's the real things we are tracking. What I can say on those two items, it's a triple digit growth we are seeing. If this is going the way we want, to answer to your questions, Michael, automatically the revenue will come and the extra growth coming on top of Medidata will be there.

What I can say is we are betting a lot on the new 3DEXPERIENCE Works family to trigger this growth, because we have reasons to believe that the market adoption is extremely good. We are seeing some proof point in region of the world. Bernard mentioned China, we have others. As I was saying also to Stacy, we see also large transactions moving to the cloud. It was not the case, probably a year and a half ago. This also will contribute to accelerate the percentage. If you compare to last year, it's two point in terms of mix coming from the cloud. I do expect this trend to continue to reinforce and maybe to slightly accelerate over the next 2-3 years.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Related to infrastructure and city. Thank you, Michael, for putting this topic. As you know, it's the third big topic for Dassault Systèmes, in addition to the world of the making and the world of the health. Projects are very real. They are transformational. They are all on cloud, both for city and construction. It's related to not only the engineering and design, but related to the construction test itself. The dynamic is a good dynamic. I think this sector is looking for platform-based, cloud-based infrastructure everywhere around the world. China is a good driver for us. On Europe with not only the Bouygues showcase, but now the Bouygues showcase is expanding with all the project partners because this sector is a very project. It should be known, but better to say it's project-driven. It's not only company-driven, it's consortium-driven.

We now notice that thanks to our friends on WiG, there are multiple new consortium being set up to offer remodeling of certain cities or infrastructure for energy distribution in cities. We call the hydrogen or electrical plugs that needs to be installed, and we have many projects on that are connecting the territory management, what we call 3DEXPERIENCity, and the project management, which is related to the use of the platform to construct what needs to be constructed. I believe we are here to create this game changer approach. Like what we did, we did it on mock-up 30 years ago in the manufacturing sector. It takes time, but I think it will last. We'll come back regularly to share with you new wins in this area.

By the way, I'm convinced that the size of installations can be at least equivalent to very large manufacturing clients in terms of both revenue and number of users. What we're communicating on WiG is already a proof point of that, on all being subscription-based, cloud-based, which is our priority right now. That's all what I can say. Related to Altium, of course, back two years ago, we decided that we should have a multiple approach. We have a great partnership with Cadence, with Synopsys. We have a partnership with also the Japanese player. Our customers likes it. As you know, for everything related to wiring, packaging, this is going to be made in platform. When it comes to chips on the boards, we will use third-party integration. Those third-party integration are going very well.

I must say that the situation with Altium, with the recent news flow, accelerated our strategy to have multiple options, which was already the case. I think it has transcended the relationship with the other players for the satisfaction of our clients. That's all what I can say at the current time.

Michael Briest
Analyst, UBS

Thank you.

François Bordonado
VP of Investor Relations, Dassault Systèmes

We'll take a last question.

Operator

Your last question comes from the line on Nicolas David from ODDO BHF. Please go ahead. The line is open.

Nicolas David
Analyst, Oddo BHF

Yes. Hi. Good morning, Bernard. Good morning, Pascal.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Good morning.

Nicolas David
Analyst, Oddo BHF

There's two question actually. First one is, could you please provide us some color regarding the yet again, very strong growth of SOLIDWORKS in Q2? Is it again, mainly due to the 3DEXPERIENCE Works strategy you already mentioned or more this time, kind of the back catalog playing? Any colors regarding the average deal size increase or, and also the trend for H2 would be helpful. My second question is regarding industrial innovation. Sorry about that, this is maybe the only area where it was still slightly below to the 2019 level in Q2. My question is which sectors and brand are still below 2019 level, and should we expect a catch up on this area? Do you think that there is some brands and sectors which have taken a hit that will be difficult to recover soon? Thank you.

Bernard Charlès
Vice Chairman and CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Nicolas. Just a mark on the SOLIDWORKS growth. It is now visible for the market, Pascal provide data, but it is now recognized by the market that the all SOLIDWORKS portfolio in the next less than two years will be based on the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. All including the desktop collaborative process will be cloud-based, platform-based environment connecting to the desktop. That is the trend. It has significant consequences because it means that there is a higher fluidity, higher consistency because the next generation SOLIDWORKS is based natively on the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. All the roles and processes which are part of the Dassault Systèmes wide gigantic catalogs will be compatible on that point. That is the context in the next 18-24 months, means 2023. With that, Pascal, I will let you comment about the dynamic between desktop and 3DEXPERIENCE Works.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

This quarter, and also the next time, since the beginning of the year, Nicolas, I would say 2/3 of the growth is coming from the volume. The ability, the desktop solutions, it's partially a catch up because last year, you remember, was soft. Also, the growth drivers for SOLIDWORKS is still there. You still have a significant number of people migrating from 2D to 3D every year. We are capturing, if you remember, almost half of them. The rest is coming from the Works family. Which is some incremental growth. Last but not least, which is probably the most important, and you are right to ask the average deal size. We are seeing some increase, and it's coming from the mix. We see more and more SOLIDWORKS users buying additional simulation seats, expanding into the PDM area, or connecting with manufacturing capabilities.

This is also what is reflected into this excellent performance of SOLIDWORKS. Coming back to industrial innovations, I would say there are a few things. Because at the end, the question is not what is going well, but what could be better. What could be better? I think DELMIA could have been better for the first half of the year. I do expect, given the pipeline we have, that DELMIA will have a much better performance. DELMIA is around the mid-single digit. This should probably be much more a double-digit growth. That's what I'm expecting in H2 as a recovery. Aside of this, ENOVIA is growing at 10%, NETVIBES, more than 50% for this quarter. SIMULIA is also growing at double digits. Clearly all the components are extremely good.

From an industry standpoint, I think there are a few where we are not seeing yet the strong momentum in this sector, but I will mention at least two. The first one is the marine and offshore markets. We grew significantly the last two years, and the first half has been relatively soft. The second one is the industrial equipment. We have seen a lot of traction coming from the mainstream markets. However, for the large equipment, we are not yet back to where we used to be in 2019. We still have some progress we can make on this front, and I hope the investment cycle will be back also in this.

Nicolas David
Analyst, Oddo BHF

Yes. Thank you very much.

Pascal Daloz
COO and CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Nicolas. Thank you everyone for participating to this call. I hope that you find useful information, and we continue to take this with high level of integrity, as needless to say. We will host a conference call this afternoon, and we are always there for you with the Investor team whenever you have additional questions. Thank you, and have a great day. A great summer, if you have not taken a summer break yet.

Operator

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.