Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Dassault Systèmes Q4 2020 and 2020 full-year earning presentation. I would now like to hand the conference over to François Bordonado. Please go ahead.
Hello, and good morning to everybody. I'm François Bordonado, Dassault Systèmes investor relations. With me, I have Bernard Charlès, our Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Pascal Daloz, our Chief Operating Officer and Chief Financial Officer. Please note that all Dassault Systèmes earnings announcement are made both in non-IFRS and IFRS. We'll comment essentially on non-IFRS figures unless otherwise mentioned. I would like you to refer please, to our French Document de Référence, and I would like now to give back the floor to Bernard Charlès.
Good morning, everyone. Even if it's a bit late, Happy New Year, and I wish you good health, and all the best for all of you. I'm pleased to share this with Pascal to have the full year 2020 review. The revenue, as you can see in the presentation, is up 12%, excluding exchange rate. It's EUR 4.5 billion, but we passed the bar of $5 billion. I'm happy with that one. There are pros and cons with the exchange rate, and I think the board was happy with that yesterday. I hope soon we will pass the bar of EUR 5 billion. Operating margin is at 30% + 30.2%, and EPS is up 3%. I think at this point in time, it shows at least a strong resilience for Dassault Systèmes. We committed early March last year to keep all employees.
They were very happy with that. They really consider that we walk the talk when it comes to corporate social responsibility. By the way, we also increased the R&D account by 10%. On our sector view, you remember on 6 February last year, before we had this lockdown around the world on this pandemic panic, I presented to you the horizon at five, 10, 20 years, which basically is about looking at the economy with three sectors. What people are producing in the world, what we call manufacturing at large, any physical goods. What we do in life sciences on scale, on infrastructure. I believe that 2020, aside of everything you know from the economic, industrial, and social effect, I think for Dassault Systèmes is a milestone point because we are becoming mission-critical in these three sectors of the economy.
I think in manufacturing industry and life science, as well as infrastructure and cities, and I will come back on this topic. I think we have also strengthened our industrial innovation capacity. We are becoming a major player in life science, and we are accelerating innovation in mainstream market, which I think is a very exciting momentum. On the organization, we had, I think, a very powerful transition with new generation of leaders around Pascal Daloz, and Pascal himself representing that generation. This is true across all structure of Dassault Systèmes. We don't publish, and we don't like to publish too much on the R&D organization, for example, but it's a very young organization with this capacity to innovate. This is something which I think is very important. By the way, this is not a retirement announcement from my side.
I plan to stay in the company for as long as I have a good health. I have a good example with Serge Dassault and with Charles Edelstenne, my chairman. Purpose-driven company, we really think we are contributing on the handprint side with levers as well as committing for our footprint. I will come back on this in a moment, too. I think the long-term growth with what we announced on February 6th, we published a paper, two pages, at that time. I think we show and we prove that the addressable market potentially for us is about EUR 100 billion, so we should be able to find out the right path for growth for the future. The last point is very important, mission-critical for this year. We are adopting our platform for everything we do. It's already the case for R&D.
We don't use external products to manage our R&D. It's our platform itself. We're going to use the platform as our channel. Ultimately, Dassault Systèmes wants to have the 3DEXPERIENCE platform connected to all the users worldwide, on all companies worldwide, as well as all partners worldwide. We don't need CRM. The platform itself is the relationship with our clients. That's for the highlight. We announced on February 6 what you know, moving from things to life. We said that we will be focusing our investment to create the virtual twin experience of human. We are in good position to do that, as we did for design, for mock-up, for PLM, with basically the virtual twin of production systems, with even cities on infrastructure. This is not a vapor statement. This is what we do, and we put science and technology to do it.
We are taking it seriously as we did for planes, cars, infrastructure, energy systems, and so on. This is what we call being the catalyst and enabler for industry renaissance. It's 40 years of work. It structures the next 20. That's what we do. Four things are driving what we do. I've said already, from things to life. The second thing, you understood it now, the platform is the channel. From connection, from a way of interacting with users on customer now with a structured way, we call it the IFWE Loop. It's very interesting, there were Harvard Business School publication where they presented the infinite loop. This is what we have been doing a year before, in preparing our platform as a channel, for those of you who might have seen this publication a year ago.
From the making to the growing, please read behind this the fact that we are creating generative systems. You don't design. You specify, and the system design for you. From social to human, because we believe that human-centric approach to the industry solution is a differentiator. There is a nice video, I think, if we launch the video that show you that we are touching many points of your life.
Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, Dassault Systèmes is there with you.
You will notice that in a way, we try to articulate to people as workers, people as patient, people as citizen, that in some way, we are behind many of the things they touch every day. I think this will become more and more true when we did the simulation of airflow in an opera. People and citizens consider it's an important topic, even when you take the train or the plane. I want to fly again, guys. I want to fly again. I don't want to stay home. Connecting industry and economy, this is what we do, manufacturing, life science and care on infrastructure and cities. Now, proof points.
Well, of course, the astonishing situation is the move with Medidata in November of 2019, on the fact that we became at the center of the trial for the COVID, the SARS-CoV-2 on the variant that are going on with over 500 clinical trial going on, hundreds to thousands of patients in those clinical trial. Reducing by 50%-60% the study startup time, and really increasing massively data intelligence and data science for real-world evidence. There is something happening there, and I think, if you take it from a little bit of distance, this sector is far behind in connecting research, R&D, lab, clinical trial, and bioreactor or production systems. It's visible. Please notice the slow ramp-up of many plants. They do not have the virtual twin experience of the production system.
A Toyota Production System would not work today without the Virtual Twin experience of their production system. There is a lot of things that can be done there. A few things where you can learn a lot from. With Novo Nordisk, a beautiful video, by the way, on YouTube that they have done, where they explain how they are using the 3DEXPERIENCE with a solution called Engineered to Cure. This is for diabetic on serious chronic disease. Basically, it's not only about the treatment, it's about the packaging and making it easy to use in real life. It's really about the syringe-ready therapeutics. Many people don't understand, in the large public, why many of the therapeutics are not syringe-ready. Well, because they cannot be produced at scale, because it's complex in production system. You know what? We can simulate everything and prove that it's possible.
I think that the connection between research, development, lab, packaging, and the way the therapeutics are going to be applied is a new game changer in this sector, and will have to change in the years to come, and we want to make sure we enable this to happen. This is one example. There are many others, but I think it's a very practical illustration of what Dassault Systèmes is doing that no other players are doing. On the system for future smart systems in manufacturing industry, of course, you might have seen alliance we are doing with Renault. Luca de Meo has an amazing vision about the future on really transformational, moving really fully the company, in a new situation. We don't only like to work with rich companies who are transforming themselves. We did that with PSA. Incredible result in the last seven years.
Because that's a proof point that the levers for building up the future is strong. Here in this case, we are working on smart, safe, and connected vehicles. Clearly new mobility experience, new value network, new ways of working. Again, those are not just slogans, it's the reality of what we are doing with them. Interesting enough, we grew in A&D last year. I know many of you were questioning that possibility. We did, because space it's a one of a kind, and there is a lot of things going on in space and in defense. Really an example of that is Spirit. It's just one example, but at large, we demonstrated that despite the incredible pandemic hit on the air travel, there are a lot of things going on, driven by three factors. How to reduce OpEx.
How do you, when the demand is changing, reorganize production system in safe conditions? If you do not have the Virtual Twin experience of the plant, you cannot do it. I think, for example, for Airbus in Hamburg, we did an amazing job to be able to re-orchestrate production based on demand, in a few hours as opposed to months before, thanks to the DELMIA portfolio on what we call planning. Former ERP systems don't address this well, and this is core to the future of our growth. This is one example. In the sector of consumer goods, consumer packaged goods on [we eco], we continue to expand with Centric PLM, are doing a great job there to really connect products with the way the e-commerce environment and the full life cycle of it. Another example is Lithium Valley.
Really with science-based platform like the one we have with material science with BIOVIA to optimize the future of battery for electrical vehicle and others. This is making the difference. We are putting science, technology on the platform to optimize not only the battery system, but simulate it and optimize the way you produce them at scale. This is another proof point about the adoption of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform to do that. You cannot solve this problem if you are connecting software which are not integrated. Strong momentum in China, in energy, transportation, and health. China is not anymore about production only. They are inventing new portfolio. You have seen that in the EV mobility. You see that in space. You see that in many other sectors, like the new way of constructing building at a lower cost.
I think the alliance we announced last year, like Akila Care with Aden, with SMEDI, or with PowerChina, those are good illustrations. To really summarize, we are putting our purpose in action to provide business and people-3DEXPERIENCE universe to imagine sustainable innovation capable of harmonizing product, nature and life. If this is the journey our investors wants to have, it's a good hope. That's what we are doing. We are communicating that along the line of the UN goals. Each year, we will have a new act. We demonstrated the capacity to use experience as a way to connect with people. We are now focusing on the bill for water in production system and supply chain. We look at the consumption aspect, the city aspect, the energy aspect, mobility, nature, health, the heritage, and future. More to come in this.
We try to illustrate how the impact of what we do with our clients can help. We published a quite interesting study with Accenture at the opening of Davos, where we made, with Accenture, a very precise study about the contribution, the critical role of virtual twin in accelerating sustainability. We don't use virtual by accident. We don't use experience by accident. Virtual means it's beyond digital. Digital is a mean. The virtual is the capacity to represent the real phenomenon with accuracy based on science and technology. Experience is about simulating the unpredictable, evaluating the possibilities. It's different from digital twin. Virtual twin experience is as profound as digital mock-up. Most of our competitors were doing part assembly. We were doing an airplane or a car. It's different. Same here. You know the factors are huge, gigantic.
Virtual twin to bring in $1.3 trillion of economic value and 7.5 gigaton of CO2 emission reduction between now and 2030. This is backed up with interesting data. I think the virtual twin experience applied to everything can contribute massively to improve the sustainability of the world. Of course, on our side, to run the business, we also have a negative impact on the environment, and we need to continue to improve it, and we are committed to do it. First, we are committed to Science Based Targets initiative, and we are building the framework, by the way, that we will offer also on our platform to our clients. In our concrete terms, as Pascal set up with the board, we set up the goal for EPS by 2024, EUR 6. Pascal, I'm sure you remember.
We said that by 2025, it's going to be five tons per FTE, so minus 38% versus 2018. We'll continue to work on those topics, but also provide the decision cockpit for our clients on the platform. Related to sustainability, we believe that women's representation is, I think, quite well-managed at Dassault Systèmes. 50% of the board, 40% of the executives are women. I have been, for the last 15 years, doing a lot in this area myself to coach those great women to have leadership at Dassault Systèmes. I remind everyone that the Senior VP managing all global R&D for Dassault Systèmes is a woman. She's the Chief Architect, and she's managing all the R&D we do. 30% at the manager level, we still can improve that.
Before I give the floor to Pascal, I want to really insist on the fact that we are going to use the platform to interact real-time with all our user clients and partners worldwide. We call it the IFWE Loop. We're going to implement four type of engagement. Engagement for large company, we call it industry solution engagement. Engagement with partners, process engagement. Engagement with volume, mainstream, we call it roll, and click and buy online for the cloud. This is why the platform with its architecture based on human-centricity, capacity to represent the world, capacity to use data to reveal the invisible, and capacity to map a virtual simulation to the real-world evidence is unique. We are applying the healthcare real-world evidence discipline to manufacturing systems. For us, IoT is an anecdote.
IoT is a tool like TCP/IP, but the reality is how you compare data you acquire to the theoretical model you want to run. That's what we do at Dassault Systèmes. I think there is a video. Please run the video.
Transform radically the way we reach, build value with our clients and users on a global basis. Briefly, I would like just to, before, Pascal, you take over, two anecdotes. We made a quite interesting pilot in France for the pandemic in two regions, what we call Grand Est, which is only Est, which is connected to Germany, and also to southeast of France. We provided to the president of those regions the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, indexing all data available from the pandemics, the health, and the economics, to give them dashboard to understand what was happening in the region.
This is available on their mobile with a little customization, two weeks of customization of the platform, the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, and they can really have access to it, and they can use it on their mobile, because you saw in this video that their platform is running on mobile. The reason why I mention this is the platform, despite its name, 3DEXPERIENCE, is centered on business experiences. I think we are going to demonstrate that as a channel, it's really running a business operation for Dassault Systèmes. Back to you, Pascal.
Thank you, Bernard. Good morning to all of you. Always a pleasure to be with you at this time of the year, and thank you for joining us today. Let me begin first with a quick overview of our financial performance in Q4. First, our financial result came in at the high end of, or above our guidance. Total revenue increased 5%, ahead of our 2%-4% range, at EUR 1.22 billion. Software revenue came in slightly ahead on a better licenses performance, and the recurring software was well in line. Importantly, on an organic basis, total revenue was stable year-over-year in Q4. Our operating margin came in at 36%, 50 basis points above the high end of our guidance range, thanks to the revenue upside, of course, and also our operating expenses tracking to our guidance.
EPS was EUR 1.22 ahead of our 1.15-1.20 guidance, including the negative EUR 0.02 currency impacts. EPS grew 6% at constant currency in Q4. Zooming in our revenue by type in Q4. First, software revenue increased 8%, slightly ahead of our 6%-7% expectation. To be noted that the top 3DEXPERIENCE transactions were across multiple industries, aerospace and defense, energy and materials, transportation and mobility, to name only a few. Also from a large deal perspective, we saw more geos contributing to the top 20 deals than we did in Q4 when they were mostly coming from North America and China. Large deal activity benefited both on our license and subscriptions revenue. Zooming on license and other software revenue, it came in better than planned, decreasing 9% versus 12%-15%. It's about EUR 10 million higher compared to our guidance.
America was the best performing regions with licenses and other software grows positive in Q4. Our recurring software revenue grew 16% in total and 9% on an organic basis. Our subscriptions performance benefited by the addition of Medidata, all subscription SaaS software, with a double-digit subscription growth on our comparable basis. We are observing some acceleration in the adoption of the subscription on an organic basis. It's really up double-digit in Q4. Our support revenue was well in line with our expectations. We saw a solid performance for renewals, both regionally and across most of our brands' applications. For the full year, the recurring revenue represent 80% of the total software. Moving to the services. The services revenue decreased 19% at EUR 114 million, somewhat better than the range of what we had given. We saw an improvement in signing in Q4, helping bring more visibility for 2021.
On the margin side for the services, improvement came from the management of subcontractors, specifically. More important, along the year, our focus has been on taking action in services to ensure the 2,700 3DEXPERIENCE go lives we have accomplished, also to advance our services work, benefiting large and multi-year deployment on our software to secure 2021 and after. That's what we can say. Moving to the regional software review, a few comments. First, let's start with Asia. Asia software revenue was up 3% in Q4. China was the best performing geo, up 20% in Q4 and 50% for the full year of 2020, with good organic results as well as the addition of Medidata. Japan was stable, and softness came from Korea and India in particular, where the environment was still difficult in Q4.
Support revenue growth was very solid across Asia in Q4, and we saw a strong uptick in growth for subscriptions in total and organically. In Europe, our software revenue was flat in Q4. We did see a significant number of large deals anyway in Northern Europe, France, Germany and Southern Europe as well. In 2020, the double-digit growth in Northern Europe has been partly offset by the southern part of Europe. In the Americas, software revenue increased 23% in total and 13% on an organic basis. It's really a good performance. From an industry perspective, we had a strong growth in life sciences with Medidata and in aerospace on an organic basis. That's what we could say for the regions. Moving to the product lines. Let's start with industrial innovations software. The revenue decreased by 1% in Q4.
Within that, 3DEXPERIENCE had a better performance with a number of deal, as I was saying, in Aerospace and Defense, transportation and mobility, as well as multiple deals coming from energy materials and industrial equipment as well. You can see that CATIA grew in Q4 and resisted well in 2020, demonstrating its leadership in some key industries, also specifically in the auto sectors. It is seeing a strong traction with its offer in cyber systems and the recent acquisitions or minority stake, I should say, we took in AVSimulation is reinforcing this offer. SIMULIA continues also to grow to demonstrate a good momentum in both structural and electromagnetism, and has remained the case in Q4. For the full year, industrial innovation software revenue amount EUR 2.3 billion and represents 57% of the software revenue. Moving to life science product lines.
In life science, Medidata total revenue was up 20% in the quarter on a comparable basis, with a solid operating margin performance and a strong cash flow from operations. BIOVIA also had a double-digit growth in both Americas and Asia, offset in part by the tough comp we had in Europe last year. Looking much more carefully at Medidata, the progress over the last year. Rave EDC, the core products, continue to demonstrate its strong market leadership. In addition, the attach rate of the other product solution is very strong, with a number of customers with four or more Medidata product up over 20% during 2020. It is also very important to notice that the run rate for Patient Cloud is up sharply, representing Medidata next EUR 100 million product lines. BIOVIA saw also a strong traction with a product maybe you are not aware of, so-called BIOVIA Discoverant.
This product is really aimed to support the entire manufacturing process life cycle from process development through scale-up and tech transfer to the final productions. For 2020, our life science product line software revenue amounts for EUR 797 million, accounting for 20% of the total software revenue. Finally, mainstream innovations. Mainstream innovation software revenue increased 10% in Q4, with SOLIDWORKS growing at 7%. We notice that the early quarter looks also promising for 3DEXPERIENCE platform. We look to see progressive traction with 3DEXPERIENCE Works, cloud-based family of solutions. We just introduced this product line less than a year ago, and now we are starting to see the traction. For the full year 2020, mainstream innovation software revenue amount for EUR 938 million and represent 23% of the software revenue.
As we outlined at the Capital Markets Day in Q4 2020, and I know it's a key topic for you, we have made significant investment in developing our cloud portfolio, which cover almost 100% of what we offer on-prem. We see cloud gaining accelerating traction. I have few example for that. The first one is a recent example with a company called Stevanato Group, a provider of packaging machine used in pharma industries. They have adopted the 3DEXPERIENCE platform and digital continuity industry solution on the cloud. This industry solution is really helping them to speed time to market, significantly reduce the IT and the total cost of ownership. Also enable them to create a virtual twin experience of the entire manufacturing lines. This is exactly the point mentioned by Bernard.
Another example in the life science sectors is, in America, Horizon, a pharmaceutical company, extended its multi-year agreement with Medidata using Rave EDC, as well as a number of additional cloud products. Horizon is adding Medidata Intelligent Trials to give them the flexibility and the agility to scale and to grow. I think this agreement is a good example of how we could expand our portfolio at existing customers, both in term of number of products and value we deliver thanks to the data-centric approach. Finally, another illustration with simulation on the cloud in the mainstream innovations. Tinoco, a Korean-based materials company, a SOLIDWORKS customer. They are expanding its relationship. We are expanding their relationship with them with the adoption of 3DEXPERIENCE platform and the simulations capability coming from SIMULIA as part of 3DEXPERIENCE Works, again, on the cloud. A quick update on Centric PLM.
Centric PLM, the world leader PLM solution for fashion, retail, and consumer goods. As you remember, it was a tough time for them in 2020, but we had a very strong finish where the result were up sharply in Q4, and we had a strong catch-up from prior quarters. We are also seeing a trend towards subscription model in conjunction with the adoption of the cloud. During 2020, Centric PLM continued to increase its market presence with the customer acquisition ups 11%, which is, I think, a good result because many of those companies, they have their stores being closed, and the ability to continue to expand is a very good sign about resiliency of the solutions. They are also extending their reach with diversification into food and beverage. This is, again, a very large market.
You see the collection of logos on the slides, and we do expect to build almost the same footprint with Centric in food and beverage. Okay. A few words related to the acquisitions. As you know, we continue to invest in some key specific domains. In 2020, the focus was really related to the technology, as you can see. With respect to data science, last July, we acquired Proxem, bringing a strong artificial intelligence capability to complement our capability within NETVIBES. In November last year, we acquired NuoDB, a cloud-native distributed SQL database leader. We had previously an equity stake in this company, and we decided to move forward because this is becoming so critical, and it's unique. NuoDB is really the only technology you can use to do three things: to ensure the data integrity, because we are still transactional.
This is what usually the SQL database are doing. To scale like a NoSQL database, this is what the players coming from the web, they bring as term of new technology. Us, we also have to manage the cybersecurity, and the ability to be distributed is super critical. That's the reason why we have decided to take the full control of this company, and we are using extensively NuoDB in our cloud infrastructure to support our 3DEXPERIENCE platform on the cloud, but also our data science strategy. We have also taken an equity positions in AVSimulation in January of this year. It is a provider of ultra-realistic virtual world for virtual driving simulations, specifically to enable automated driving certifications, which is very critical considering 2024 regulations constraint.
As you may know, at that time, the vast majority of the car will have some assistance in terms of driving, and they have to be certified. That's the reason why we took this minority stakes in order to complement what we have. Moving to the operating margin and EPS. Zooming first on the operating margin. Our full year operating margin was 32.2% versus 30.2% versus 32% in 2019. I think it's a good result because, at the same time, we have to offset the dilutions coming from Medidata, which is roughly 210 basis points. Even if Medidata stick to the plan to improve their profitability by improving their operating margin by 200 basis points, nevertheless, still diluting. Also, we have to offset the softness coming from the services activity. This, thanks to the savings plan, we have been able to counterbalance this headwind.
This translates into the bottom line, with an EPS growth of 3%, 5% if you exclude the currency effect at €3.73 in 2020. It's EUR 0.02 above the high end of the guidance for Q4. Again, despite EUR 0.02 negative currency effect. Finally, a few words on the cash flow and balance sheets. We had a solid growth for the year. Up 5% to EUR 1.24 billion. We also use €382 million of cash to improve our leverage ratio. As you can see now we are at 1.8 coming from 2.5 a year ago. We are a little bit advanced compared to our initial plan because we were targeting two at the end of this year. contract liability amount EUR 1.17 billion, up about 14% in constant currencies. Now let's move to the financial objective for the full year. There are four takeaways.
The first one, we are initiating a constant currency revenue growth objective of 9%-10% for 2021 to reach EUR 4.715 billion-EUR 4.765 billion. This is essentially an organic growth, because the contribution of the acquisition are very modest in 2021, given the size of the company we acquired. We anticipate a recurring software revenue to increase about 8%-9%, and for the license revenue to grow 13%-15%. Finally, services by 9%-12%. We are very progressively transitioning to the subscription model, as you know, not at the expense of the growth. That's very important for you to keep it in mind. The cloud represent today a little bit more than 20% of our revenue.
As highlighted in the Capital Market Day, the goal for us is to have one-third of our revenue coming from the cloud in 2025, which is more than €2 billion at that time. Second, we are assuming a gradual recovery in business. This is also key for you to understand. I was looking at the consensus. The consensus is relatively aligned with a normal profile of the year. Here we are more than ever back-loaded. This is also important for you to take this into account. Third, with respect to Medidata, we are expecting a strong growth and a high visibility. We anticipate the total revenue to increase about 14% at constant currency for 2021. Entering the year with a 94% coverage ratio, which is almost more than three, if not four points, more compared to last year.
Fourth, we are targeting an operating margin of about 30.8%. This include obviously continuing the operating margin growth at Medidata. The plan is, as I told you, is to continue to improve by 200 basis point in 2021. Finally, our EPS range is EUR 4.10-EUR 4.15. Growth of about 8%-10% with several hundred basis point of currency headwind embedded in our currency exchange rates assumptions. We estimate also a lower tax rate for 2021, about 23.7% versus 25.1% in 2020, largely reflecting some benefit in our French taxes. For the exchange rate versus the EUR, we are using USD 1.22 and JPY 126. For Q1, we are targeting a revenue growth objective of 9%-10% FX, to reach EUR 1,145 million-EUR 1,170 million.
With software revenue increase 7%-9%, driven by the license growth expecting between flat and 5%, and the recurring software revenue growth 8%-10%, and services by -2% and +2%. The operating margin of 30.4%-31.1%. Finally, an EPS range of EUR 0.98 to EUR 1.03, and a growth of about 3%-8%. Summarize, I think we opened this past year, beginning our new horizons, as Bernard said, setting the stage for the coming decades. With the pandemic impact, we have to reset our objective outlook for 2020 and postpone by one year our 2023 five-year EPS objectives, now in 2024. Looking forward, we see a year of solid organic revenue growth for 2021.
We are confident in our midterm growth drivers with industrial innovations, mainstream innovation, and life sciences, thanks to many things, in fact, but specifically to the talented team across the globe and our partners. None of us could have imagined 2020 in advance, but despite the increased distances, we became closer as a company. I want to do a very special thanks to all of our employees, partners, and customers. I should not forget the trust and support we receive from you, my friends, analysts and investors. I think Bernard and I would like now to take and answer your questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A queue. This will only take a few moments. If you wish to cancel your request, please press the hash key. Once again, it's star one if you wish to ask a question. Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Michael Briest from UBS. Please ask your question. Your line is open.
Thank you. Good morning. Congratulations on the recovery in Q4. Two from me. Bernard, can you talk a bit about some of the transformational projects you've won in the last 12, 18 months, Boeing, Toyota, BHP, what the status is, and whether there's been any delays or even accelerations in deployment? Pascal, thanks for the additional data on the cloud exposure. Just in terms of the EUR 2 billion in 2025, can you go into a bit more detail on which product lines will primarily drive the non-Medidata component? Is this more of a SOLIDWORKS, Catalyst or CATIA? I think that the Capital Markets Day, you started talking about yearly subscription fees and primary and annual servicing charges but didn't have much chance to go into detail.
What is the driver of what's going to create a sort of purely ratable revenue as opposed to one where there is an upfront element, and how will that play out in the P&L, do you think?
Good morning. Thank you, Michael. Related to relationship basically with our customers in terms of the deployment. First of all, 2020, we have strengthened our relationship with all of them. For us, that's important because at the end, it counts for the trust when we face difficulties. In some way, it has slowed down the deployment, but it has also reframed the deployment sequence. To be concrete, we saw a lot of attention in accelerating the use of the virtual twin for the connection between demand on the way the production system works. We believe that this is a very positive factor for midterm, long term adapting on with the planning capacity and the readjustment. That's first one thing. The second thing, as I said, is that many companies are rethinking right now their portfolio horizon. We are at the core of that.
You mentioned Toyota and others. By the way, in the case of Toyota, I think my first comment is related to the practicality of Toyota rethinking about that, how they want to manage their production system worldwide. We are a core system for them in that area. On the portfolio standpoint, we have also in mobility, many companies announcing new type of product portfolio for the years to come with hybridation. It was a topic on the agenda before in 2019, but it's becoming a very sensitive topic for them now in terms of speed to deploy, to deliver those platforms and provide new mobility service. On last, what we saw in A&D at large, where all people were focusing on our activity on civil airplane, we saw an acceleration in space, telecommunication, and defense. That's the kind of dynamic going on.
In some way, without accelerating the speed of deployment, because it was a very hard year for them. We have demonstrated solidarity and we have supported customer without billing them, to help them work from home, for example. We didn't bill for that because when you have those loyal customers, you want to create solidarity. We think that will pay off on midterm or long term. We have changed the footprint on the understanding of them, of using the platform end-to-end as opposed to only specialized environment. I think it's a good lever for the future to come. The second aspect, Pascal. I think you want to p ut some additional remarks on the [crosstalk].
First of all, Michael, thank you for your congratulations. I appreciate, and especially coming from you. I will answer to your questions related to the cloud. The best way for me to answer to it is by, before to zoom on the product line, I want to give you the answer by the three sectors. First of all, in the life sciences, obviously, Medidata is a SaaS-based approach, and we want to almost standardize on the subscription and the cloud for everything we do. That's the reason why you remember I told you I'm really pushing hardly for BIOVIA also to move to the cloud and on subscriptions. Related to infrastructures and cities, the cloud solution are already well adopted by this sector, and there is a simple reason for that, because they are project-based. For the vast majority of them.
The cloud is giving to them the agility and the flexibility, to connect on the fly, all the stakeholders. That's the reason why the vast majority of at least the incremental revenue we have from these sectors is coming from cloud solutions, specifically coming from CATIA, the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, and also the simulations, SIMULIA. Related to the manufacturing sectors, there are a few things. First of all the consumer-centric industries are also moving progressively to the cloud. The best proof point of what I'm seeing is Centric PLM. You notice the subscriptions model is really taking off, and it's driven also by the cloud. You could expect at some point of time that the vast majority of Centric PLM revenue will also come from this. The mainstream is also adopting the cloud, and we are seeing it.
We had, for example, a good traction with a product we are not usually spending too much time to speak about it, but DraftSight. DraftSight, as you know, it's a product line competing against AutoCAD. We have a significant, a large install base now using DraftSight. The vast majority of them are using DraftSight on the cloud with the subscription model. In the traditional sectors like auto, aerospace, I would say the traction is coming from the newcomers. If you take all the EV guys, the vast majority of them are starting directly with the cloud solutions, which is specifically CATIA and the 3DEXPERIENCE platform, as well as SIMULIA for the vast majority of what we do. That's where the drivers are coming from.
You could expect that if you combine Centric PLM, obviously BIOVIA, CATIA, and SOLIDWORKS, and for sure the 3DEXPERIENCE platform and also simulations. This is where from a product line standpoint, it will come.
Thank you. The distinction between yearly subscription fees and primary servicing charges, what causes one to drop in one form or the other?
The reality, we have to comply with the business model of our customers. The subscription is sometimes a good model for some of them. For the EV industry, which is really CapEx based, sometimes it's a difficult sell. That's the reason why we have innovating, because we find a way to almost still have a subscription model, which ensures the recurrent revenue you are looking for, but with an upfront payment. That's what is behind. This is a good model for some of our customers, and this is also potentially a good model for the partners as well, because it's easier for them when they recognize some revenue upfront.
If I look at the statistics, because this is probably the questions behind, I still have the vast majority of the subscriptions coming from a yearly fee more than a yearly primary charge. It's 2/3, 1/3 to answer to your questions.
Right. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Adam Wood from Morgan Stanley. Please ask your question. Your line is open.
Thank you. Good morning, Bernard. Good morning, Pascal. Thanks for taking the question, and congrats from me on a strong end to the year as well. I've got two, please. Maybe just first of all, if aerospace grew in 2020, I guess that probably means that automotive was weaker. Could you talk a little bit about the cyclicality in that business? I think some of the peers, people like Hexagon and Siemens, have been talking about actually quite a strong potential pickup in that market. What are you seeing in your pipeline? What are you seeing customers doing? That was the first one. Then secondly, just thinking about the platform and data. Clearly, getting insights from data is going to be increasingly important for your customers.
We appreciate the discussion around IoT, there's also companies like C3 AI and the hyperscalers trying to use artificial intelligence and machine learning to give customers insights into data. How do you think you stack up and compete against those? Are they gonna be successful where data goes into the cloud and you work purely on the edge, or do you think there's a way that you can be competitive for them around how data's analyzed in a broader sense? Thank you.
Thank you, Adam. I think that on the first part of the question, what is becoming very visible to us is the higher level of comprehension by customer that of the platform phenomenon. Not the connection only between software services, software solutions, but the platformization of them. What I can say today, as I am engaged personally with top CEOs around the world about their way to organize the transformation of their company.
I can tell you that more and more they see the 3DEXPERIENCE platform as an enterprise platform, not an engineering or manufacturing, but an enterprise platform. Which has significant consequences on the second part of your question. They want to connect the data, supply chain data, sustainability data, cost data, purchasing data, and do data science on it. We do have those data. Not only we do have them, but we can index any system, including existing ERP in place, and that's what we have in the cockpit functionalities of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. The reason why I mentioned the interesting showcase in the region to follow the COVID pandemic is exactly because it's data science usage of the platform. We source data which have never been generated by Dassault Systèmes software. They are coming from the health ministry. They are coming from traffic.
We do the synthesis on that and show what is really happening. We see this as a significant growth for the platform itself, usage of it, and I think we have significant component for it. We can do now also semantic analysis with Proxem. Pascal mentioned this acquisition. It means that the system can do AI on a text, on a PDF text, and understand the semantic of it. I don't think Palantir can do that, for example. I don't see why the platform will not be used for data science, connecting all the dots. It's a big playground. There is room for a lot of players, because we cannot reach all. I think when it comes to our clients, more and more, they will keep a consistency in the way they use the platform from that standpoint.
We mentioned last year, the evolution with Gulfstream, I think, with the massive adoption of data science for maintenance predictability, cost analytics, and so on. This is also happening in many other domains, for example, for what we call maintenance in operation of extremely complex equipment. Yes, we are a player there, and we are going to be a big player because the data are in the platform, and we can index what is outside. Do you want to add something, Pascal?
I think Bernard gave you a lot of reasons to believe. Also, there is one thing you should keep in mind, Bernard said, you connect with the data, but you integrate with the processes. If you do not have the industry solutions to make it happen, you do almost nothing. That's really what is unique in what we do, and the platform is data-centric and model-based at the same time. You connect with the data, and you integrate with the virtual twin. That's our unique positioning, I think. Related to the cycle in aerospace, yes, you're right. We grew by 5% for the full year and plus 12% for Q4. When I was telling you some large deals are back, now you have the proof. The reasons behind, there are several. This industry is a long cycle anyway.
They have a long cycle, and they have to project themselves over 2021 and 2022. They cannot stop everything. Two, we were relatively well engaged with the vast majority of them, and they decided to accelerate our projects because we are the solutions, we are not the problem for them. Last but not least, I would say the government stimulus package is also helping this industry, and especially the supply chain. I do expect to continue to see some tractions coming from there.
Perfect. Thank you very much.
To Adam.
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Julian Serafini from Jefferies. Please ask your question, your line is open.
Hi, thank you. I have two questions. The first one, Pascal, in your prepared remarks, you talked about protecting profitability when you were mentioning the cloud transition, if I remember correctly. I guess the bigger question is there a point at which the cloud revenue model is more advantageous for Dassault, right? Because usually for many companies, after three or five years, it is more advantageous to switch to a cloud model for many software companies. Is there such a crossover point for Dassault? If so, why not accelerate the move to the cloud? Second question, just on Medidata, you've guided to 14% growth on Medidata for 2021. If I remember in the past, you were talking about 20% upsells upon renewal. This seems like the business is doing good.
I guess I'm struggling with the 14% number, given that's roughly what Medidata was growing at when you bought the company two years ago, right? Can you help us just understand what's going on in that growth rate there?
Okay. Let's take the first question related to the profitability of the cloud. There are a few things I want you to keep in mind. First of all, the revenue for us is increasing 10 times faster than the cost. When some of our competitors are explaining that their profitability is under pressure when they are transitioning, I told you it's a question of architecture of your solutions. Us, this is the productivity ratio we have. It's point number one. Point number two related to the subscription model. It's not new, again, for us. We have the subscription model for a long time, and we know that the curves are crossing after three years. It's something we have already in place with some large accounts like Boeing. Again, I want you to keep in mind that what is the difference compared to some of our peers.
We are moving progressively to subscriptions because, again, I'm repeating myself, but you need to take into account the fact that for certain industry, the CapEx-based approach is the only way to go. They cannot be OpEx-based, simple as that. Offering this flexibility still has a value for them. One example I could give you. Take all the Chinese-owned state company. They are large company. Some of them are starting to conquer the rest of the world. Those guys, if you come with a recurrent model, they will tell you they do not want this at all. Why so? Because they are negotiating with the government some funding one year, and they are not sure they're going to have it the year after. The only way is to have a CapEx-based approach to secure this.
This is a real example, believe me, we are fighting against the competitions. Just taking this example, I know some of our competitors are out of the game for this reason. Now, the second question related to Medidata. 14% growth for this year. Yes. I was expecting these questions, by the way. You telling me I'm too cautious. There are a few points I want you to take into account. First of all, you remember it's a SaaS model, clearly, the bookings are increasing much faster. It's a multi-year engagement, so the time to have this being reflected into the revenue, you have a lag time. At least it's a minimum of one point additional growth compared to 2020 for Medidata. The second thing I want you to keep in mind, we don't know the profile of the year.
We know that it's a progressive recovery. We know that the pipeline looks good for the license, and we have a relatively good coverage, but we still have some volatility. That's the reason why, to do my CFO role, I also, to a certain extent, de-risk a little bit the license by start focusing on the low end for Medidata. That's probably the best answer I can give to you.
Okay. No, I understood. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Neil Steer from Redburn.
Hi. Thanks very much for taking the question. Once again, congratulations on the good end to the year. In the past, you've talked about the investments effectively that you're making in the services side of the business. I just want to clarify something. Have you already begun to see the benefit of that in terms of some of the new or larger aerospace deals that you referred to as having been signed in the latter part of last year? The reason I ask the question is, in your guidance, it does look as though you're looking for quite strong acceleration of new licenses as we go through the year, particularly given the fact that the comp is obviously lowly during the first part of the year in any case.
I'm just wondering to what extent that investment that you've made in the services side of the business is baked into the strong acceleration in new licenses you're expecting to see come through in the latter part of this year. Thank you.
First of all, thank you, Neil, for your congratulations. Yes, you're right. We did it on purpose last year. I told you we have put more than 2,700 customers lived with 3DEXPERIENCE platform last year. By doing so, the purpose of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform being live is obviously you are giving the foundations to continue to expand by connecting the different domain, starting from engineering, going to manufacturing, simulation, and so on. It was key for us to secure this. We had some large deployment, and I mentioned Boeing explicitly. By doing so, we have secured the growth in 2021 with them. This is a significant growth. It's not only 100,000 bucks. It's a few millions. Last but not least, I think Bernard made a very interesting comment.
When it's a tough time, people, they figure out if you are a real partner or not. He say very specifically that we are not working only with rich company. We are also working with company having sometimes difficulties, and we are ready to invest at that time. If you look at the two R&D investment we did last year, one was in research and development. We have increased by 10% the number of headcounts, which is significant, because we know that in this time, this is where we should focus because we create the next generation of solutions for our customers to help them to adapt what they have to do. Two, we had those people anyway, and we committed to keep all the people. In our industry, the most difficult thing is to hire qualified people.
When you have it's much better for you to keep it. To keep them with you. Rather than to have them staying at home and doing nothing, I think it was a good choice to have them to accelerate some of the deployments, even if they were not fully charged. It was 2020, Neil, you can count on me that 2021, we do not have any more free services. We are back to normal things. The proof of what I'm saying, we had very good signing in Q4, and that's the reason why we are giving some confidence on the recovery for the services starting much more Q2 than Q1, because Q1, usually between the signing and the time to set up the project, it's a quarter.
Okay. Just to clarify, your visibility on the new license trajectory this year as a result of that investment, you seem to be implying it's clear there's a greater level of visibility than you had in previous years. Is that fair?
Yeah. The pipeline coverage is good, we are much more back-loaded. You still have region of the world where confinement is still the reality. We want to give certain flexibility on this. What we learned anyway is the largest customers, whatever is happening, they are relatively sticking to their decision process, which was not the case a year ago when the crisis started. They were almost postponing all the decisions. That's the only thing I can say at this stage. It's only one month within the year.
Okay. Thanks so much. Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Stacy Pollard from JP Morgan. Please ask your question.
Hi, thank you very much. Two questions from me. Just around product line. Why do you think ENOVIA was a little bit weaker? Do you think that was market environment or higher competition? Maybe, on the flip side, SOLIDWORKS up 7%, very strong. How does it look, sorry, as you go into 2021? On, again, on product Centric, really nice recovery in Q4, how do you expect that to go into 2021? Can I hold the second question since I hit three product lines in one?
Yeah. Thank you, Stacy. Give us a second because the line was breaking, and I want to consolidate if we got your question well, Pascal, are we? Because it breaks several times.
Oh, sorry. ENOVIA, SOLIDWORKS, Centric.
Yeah. The first question was related to SOLIDWORKS and the competitive environment and how we see 2021, right? The second question was related to Centric PLM?
It was three products, ENOVIA, SOLIDWORKS, Centric.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Okay. Very good. Thank you, Stacy.
On the SOLIDWORKS side. We have SOLIDWORKS lovers, a large community, and they love the desktop. They do love the desktop. I think what we have seen Q4, Pascal mentioned that, is that now they are discovering that the power powering the desktop they love with the platform gives a value. There are two drivers where this is being revealed. One is on project management, which basically connects to your second question, ENOVIA, because it's coming from the ENOVIA portfolio, which is called project management role. We see a quite interesting traction there for a SOLIDWORKS user that typically was doing design. The second thing we have seen is data analyst, which surprised us a lot. Of course, you remember cloud, 3DEXPERIENCE platform for SOLIDWORKS is only cloud. There is no on-premise solution delivered for them. It's only cloud.
We saw data analyst, which is a surprise for these type of customers. I think we are going to put a lot of attention on that. ENOVIA role for project management, data analyst. The third thing is they like the way analysis is accessible, through subscription. We must admit, and I think we mentioned that we left the plate open for others on the SOLIDWORKS base, which is a gigantic base in the past years, to do analysis because we were focusing on large and complex process. Now with, I think cloud-based, this is a dynamic where Gian Paolo and team, they believe that the profiling of usage of the roles of the SOLIDWORKS community is going to evolve.
Quickly. In fact, the upcoming next week, 3DEXPERIENCE World, is really showing high interest in that. Those are the phenomenon happening. Last but not least, by the end of this year, we will have native 100% SOLIDWORKS desktop functionality available through a browser, native, so any mobile device. This is a discovery for them, it's a discovery for the partners, but I think the mood is positive on the visibility, and the Q4 confirmed that dynamic. Pascal, you want to add something?
No. The question was also related to Centric PLM.
Yeah. On Centric PLM, I think first of all, the Q4 was a good sign of evolution. We see now Centric PLM clients asking for extension of the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. It's quite interesting to see that it's a large base that they are building, great reference and great logos. I think we can supplement Centric PLM with 3DEXPERIENCE in many of these sectors, especially in food and beverage, for packaging and many others that we have been serving in certain sectors, especially in the beauty sector. We still need to make this a replicable process. I think the team is a great team. They are super committed. We are going to change the frontiers of what is offered as we move on. We need to finalize the 100% acquisition so we can put this in operation in a more direct way.
Thanks. Second quick follow-up. Your midterm intentions on the database and cloud hosting side. You've done new NuoDB acquisition recently, OUTSCALE before. You're doing more hosting of the Medidata solution yourself. What kind of midterm planning?
What is important, there is a lot of comparison with companies doing consumer-based services. This is for the time being, not our market. We are going to provide three types of solutions for clients. Shared cloud that are shared between customers. This is what is happening in the consumer industry today. Private cloud. Those are dedicated, like what we are doing today for Europe Aerospace Network. This is what we call dedicated. Sovereign cloud. Sovereign cloud is really highly sensitive for many of our clients, and we have demonstrated we can do it. Of course, it has to be countries by countries, because we want to be aligned fiscally and legally to the laws of the countries, which frankly speaking, is not the case of consumer infrastructure. I think at some point in time, they will have to fix that.
Those are the three types of clouds. We have those three types of clouds in operation as we speak. The last point is that we also, I think, have done a good job with clouds in China, and it's quite accepted. We have the license to operate our environment there, which is not easy for all companies in the world. It's a very precise plan. Shared, dedicated, sovereign. We think when it comes to health data or also highly sensitive data, we will have to offer the three categories with consistent management of the upgrades on the cloud online, what we call DevOps processes.
That's great. Thank you.
Welcome.
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of James Goodman from Barclays. Please ask your question. Your line is open.
Good morning. Thanks very much for taking mine. A couple, please. Just firstly, on the share-based payments, non-IFRS adjustments guidance that you've given for the year, down significantly year-on-year. I know we've got the maturity of some of the preexisting Medidata plans, I think, within that, but is there anything else going on there? Anything else we should consider in terms of how that might look for the year? Just secondly, on services, another exceptionally well-managed cost of services this quarter. Pascal, I think you mentioned the strong subcontractor management. Clearly, we're entering next year with pretty healthy services top line and a significantly lower run rate on the services cost.
Just wondered if you had a gross profitability in mind next year for the services business, whether we start heading back towards the slightly higher margin we saw a couple of years ago in that business? Thank you.
Okay. The first question, you remember the policy for us is to almost offset the dilutions coming from the performance shares, and we are doing the share buyback.
Yes
to make it happen. Last year, we cover most of the plan, including the Medidata one, which was a significant one.
Significant one.
We did not cover fully. You know I'm doing it in advance. I'm not waiting the year to distribute the shares to make it. Usually, I'm doing it in the year when we decide for the attribution of the plan. Clearly, if you take 2021, it's probably a little bit higher compared to last year because I did not fully cover the plan last year, but that's probably the same order of magnitude anyway. Coming back to the services, your question is always the same, it's a good balance we should find between the profitability of the services and the capacity. This year, the capacity was quite limited. That's the reason why we have re-insourced most of the capacity to fulfill our own resources, because when they work, they learn, and they are improving their skills. That's the goal in this industry.
For 2021, I do not expect to continue with the same model. I do expect to, again, partner with the large SI, because we have common engagements, and it's also a lever for us in order to accelerate some of the projects. You should expect to be in the typical gross margin usually we are achieving for the services for 2021. That's my answer to your questions, James.
Okay. Thank you.
We take one last question.
Thank you. Our final question comes from the line of Mohammed Moawalla from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Great. Thank you. Hi, Pascal. Hi, Bernard.
Two questions. First one was really on, I remember, Bernard, when you announced Medidata, you talked about the bigger opportunity in life sciences from digitizing to be as big as manufacturing. You thought that it would take up to a decade to execute on that vision. Clearly, post-pandemic, those timelines have shifted. Is there a way to quantify that, what you perhaps thought you would achieve over a decade? How much has that time span shrunk as you speak to customers, but more importantly, as customers change and embrace this digitization more aggressively? Secondly, on the core industrial business, 3DX has been a big differentiator for you. A lot of the larger standardization contract discussions paused during the pandemic.
Where are you on that, and how much opportunities are still left? How do you see that sort of developing, particularly as those customers also start to think about the kind of more platform approach out of the pandemic? Thank you.
Thank you, Mo. On the first aspect, which is related to connecting on, as Pascal said, the data connection for the life science on scale and especially big pharma, for example. We are going through a discovery ourself. To tell you the truth, I was astonished to see how little digitized is the production system. I was even shocked in some way. I think, maybe we are guilty ourself, but many of those companies did not know us at all. Now interacting with them through the Medidata footprint is opening up a new dialogue. To be simpler, when you look at the number. It's difficult to put a quantification, but let me tell you my thinking, the framework here. If you look at the big pharma, the number of plants is very similar to big auto in terms of numbers.
The second thing is they duplicate everything in each plants. There is no global collaborative shared processes platform. They don't know virtual commissioning. Most of them stop the line to update the equipment, which does not happen anymore in auto sector with what we have done. It's clear today that the dialogue we have is expanding in this area to educate and showcase what's possible, the new possibility. I think from that standpoint, we have good things to offer. Some of them, when you see the slow ramp-up of some of the vaccine production related to packaging issues and many other things, there is a lot that needs to be done there. The dialogue in less than a year has changed, and I would say we are now considered
As opposed to a year ago, where we were unknown. I think the pandemic, from that standpoint, is really a relief for us to be in that sector. I think there's a lot to be done there. They have been acting as like rich companies. I don't want this to be negatively understood by them, but they have been acting like rich companies, and there is a lot of savings that can be done in those environment. Related to the second part of your question, I think the dialogue within the manufacturing sector now, people understood that Dassault Systèmes is providing far beyond engineering, manufacturing, and simulation. That it's becoming a business platform to drive the business, drive portfolio, drive costs, drive supply chain, new split of work.
The split of work in all those industries between supply and OEMs is changing at speed of light, and they need to rebuild their business model from that standpoint. Look at EV, but you can look at smart intelligent mobility, and the nature of the service are different. On being considered as a business platform for those clients, for me, is essential. You're right. I think we are building up the proof points that the 3DEXPERIENCE platform is mission-critical for those industries. On last point on infrastructure construction, we leave the space open to traditional competitors, players. Some of them still dominate that sector, but I think the game is going to change. It takes a bit of time, but what I stated a year ago about our commitment to the sector has not changed at all.
I hope we'll be able to bring tangible, highly interesting news flow this year. China is showing the way to the rest of the world with modular construction, virtual twin-based design to delivery. We are pleased with progress in China on that side. Of course, they are midterm indication, but I hope we'll be able to grow the proof points this year. You want to add something, Pascal?
Yeah. I maybe want to complement what you say on the first questions related to manufacturing in life sciences. Why so? If you look at the pipelines under development right now, you will discover that half of the new therapeutics are biologics.
Yeah. Big molecule.
Okay. As you may know, for the biologics, the process is the product because it's living species. It's really from making to growing, Bernard, it's your words. My convictions, it's much more convictions than a demonstration at this stage. On the long run, I'm convinced that the manufacturing space could become as big as the research and the lab space in life sciences. It's an evidence for me. Again, if you look at all the indicators we have, everything is going along these directions. When it will happen, it's starting, but that's probably the unknown at this stage.
Great. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for participating to this call. As you know, we'll be hosting a call this afternoon for our friends in America that have not been able to connect this morning. Thank you very much. Of course, we are always there. We are really highly motivated to continue to execute and walk the talk on what we said on 6 February last year is what we are going to do. Thank you, and see you soon.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now all disconnect.