Dassault Systèmes SE (EPA:DSY)
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Earnings Call: Q4 2024

Feb 4, 2025

Operator

Hello, and welcome to the Dassault Systèmes 2024 fourth quarter and full year earnings call. My name is George. I'll be your coordinator for today's event. Please note this conference is being recorded, and for the duration of the call, your line has been in a listen-only mode. However, you will have the opportunity to ask questions towards the end of the presentation, and this can be done by pressing Star 1 on your telephone keypad to register your question. If you require assistance at any point, please press Star 0, and you'll be connected to an operator. I'd like to hand the call over to your host today, Ms. Béatrix Martinez, to begin today's conference. Please go ahead.

Béatrix Martinez
Vice President, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, George, and thank you for joining our fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call with Pascal Daloz, Chief Executive Officer, and Rouven Bergmann, Chief Financial Officer. Dassault Systèmes results are prepared in accordance with IFRS. The financial figures discussed on this conference call are on a non-IFRS basis, with revenue growth rates on a constant currency basis unless otherwise noted. Some of the comments on this call contain forward-looking statements that could differ materially from actual results. Please refer to today's press release and the risk factors section of our 2023 universal registration document. All earnings materials are available on our website, and these prepared remarks will be available shortly after this call. I would like now to hand over to Pascal Daloz.

Pascal Daloz
CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Béatrix. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. It's always a pleasure to be with you for the full year results and for the quarterly results, the Q4. Let me give you the tone first. I think we are really pleased with our performance and the strong momentum we have this quarter. We signed major contracts driven by the 3DEXPERIENCE, which will accelerate the future growth. Now, let's start with some few headline figures for our Q4 and full year 2024 results. First, we deliver a strong Q4 result with the software revenue accelerating to 9%. The top-line momentum was driven by a 13% increase in the new business and a 22% rise in 3DEXPERIENCE. EPS grew by 11%. Before I hand it over to Rouven for detail on our financial and 2025 outlooks, I want to touch three important topics.

First, 2024 has been a year of competitive success, mainly driven by the expansion of 3DEXPERIENCE across industry, domain, and geography, and redefining our strategic partnership with many industry leaders. I will share some names with you later. Second, key to this success is really the relevance of 3DEXPERIENCE now contributing to nearly 40% of the software revenue. By combining the deep industry knowledge and know-how, it helps customers enhance their value propositions and empower their teams. This, again, will nurture our future growth and build the foundation for the broad cloud adoption. Third, I think today we are unveiling a major horizon for Dassault Systèmes, one that builds not only on the work over the past three years to define and create the game-changing solutions based on the deep and wide adoption of generative AI, but also on the positioning of our company.

I think this solution will enable our customers and clients across all the sectors to take advantage of the artificial intelligence at every stage of the life cycle of the products and services. Now, let's start with the sector trends and key wins. In the manufacturing industry, the automotive sector faces slowing demands, mostly driven by the lower EV adoption rates. Automakers, and you know it, are under increasing pressure to transform and to become more innovative and efficient. To achieve this, they really need to develop software-defined vehicles, while also becoming more cost-effective as vehicles are currently too expensive. This is why they are turning to 3DEXPERIENCE. And over the past 18 months, we have displayed the competition on many occasions, and we have significantly expanded our footprint while preserving at the same time our value. So let me remember the sequence.

At the end of 2023, we had JLR, Renault Group, and this year we had BMW, Volvo Group, Mahindra & Mahindra. And I'm extremely proud to announce that Volkswagen Group has also chosen to adopt the 3DEXPERIENCE. Beyond these win-backs, I think the industry continues to offer substantial growth opportunities within the supply chain or by expanding the deployments with our existing clients. Meanwhile, the aerospace industry is facing a paradox. The order backlogs are at record levels, but the supply chain disruptions and the production ramp-up challenges make transformation even more critical to collect the cash. Aerospace OEMs rely on 3DEXPERIENCE to meet demands, accelerate productions, optimize the cash flow, and streamline the supply chains. As proof of this, in 2024, we redefined our 20-year partnership with Airbus by expanding into their value network.

And we are also expanding in the U.S. defense sector with Lockheed Martin, which I will discuss in more detail shortly. Looking ahead, we see significant growth opportunity, particularly in the space and defense, with the U.S. being the critical market for the expansion. In the consumer-driven industry, the PLM adoption is still in early stages, creating a strong growth dynamic. With Centric PLM, our dedicated brand for this sector, we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on this momentum. And our solution is a perfect fit for their needs, and the addressable market remains extremely vast. Now, turning to life sciences, we announce our strategic repositioning in New York in November, and some of you had the chance or the opportunity to attend it.

This repositioning includes the expansion of the value propositions of Medidata, which is now built on three pillars: the patient experience on one hand, the data experiences, and the 3D experience on the other hand. It has been well received by our clients, notably in the pharma sector. This is, I mean, as an evidence, you can see it by the renewal and the expansion of the major contract we achieved in 2024. We leverage our extended portfolio with clients such as BMS, Sanofi, AstraZeneca, Moderna, Regeneron, Novartis, and Bayer, which I will elaborate on shortly. Additionally, I think we signed several win-backs displacing competitors, including strategic EDC agreement with Eli Lilly, one of our competitors' flagship customers.

This repositioning in life sciences also includes an expansion into manufacturing and PLM, the integration of artificial intelligence across the portfolio, the development of the human virtual twins as a way to connect between the physical and the real world, for example, combining the real genome with software to enable personalized treatments. Consequently, I think we are confident in our ability to return progressively to double-digit growth, driven by our strengthened position in life sciences and our ongoing innovation across our portfolio. In the infrastructure sector, the energy transition is driving strong demand across renewable and nuclear, fueling sustained green capital expenditure. In construction, the focus is really on enhancing productivity, minimizing material waste, renovating existing buildings, and reducing the CO2 emissions. This segmented industry, from hospital to nuclear plant and data centers, requires deep expertise.

And we focus on key segments using 3DEXPERIENCE and virtual twins to integrate the knowledge and the know-how and enable a more generative approach. In addition, I think with one single platform, we are creating the value on both sides: the build, the engineering phase, and the run phase, the operational phase. In the infrastructure sector, I think more than the market share, it's the share of value that matters to us. We focus really on the transformative projects that make the real impact, where we bring disruptive approaches to drive lasting change. Now, let's explore in detail some of these customer successes. As I mentioned, Volkswagen Group has selected 3DEXPERIENCE on the cloud, a decision that encompasses all the group brands, the well-known brands, including Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche, but also Skoda, SEAT, Cupra, Bentley, Lamborghini, Scania, just to name a few. This is a significant win.

Once in every 20 years decisions, and I like to remember this. Facing significant strategic challenges, I think VW has selected us to support these transformations. With close to 40,000 users relying on 3DEXPERIENCE, we are expanding the scope of our partnership beyond the mechanical engineering to system engineering on one hand and manufacturing on the other hand, with hundreds of VW Group factories involved. This extension of our scope implies displacing the competition. With 3DEXPERIENCE, VW will benefit from a faster development cycle, an optimized resource allocation, and a shorter time to market, cutting it in half. Their choice of our cloud solutions will also accelerate the adoption and lay the foundation for artificial intelligence. We are strongly supporting Volkswagen in its radical transformations, moving from the traditional car manufacturing to the software-driven engineering. After Volkswagen, let me focus on another major win, Lockheed Martin.

These decisions also encompass all the group divisions, including the aircraft, the space systems, and helicopters. Facing surging defense demand, they must accelerate the production. As a long-time partner, they are expanding their commitment by expanding the use of 3DEXPERIENCE to transform their manufacturing operations. In this case too, we are displacing the competition. 3DEXPERIENCE for manufacturing will streamline the production, connect the suppliers and the shop floor for rigorous quality control, and we take it a step further. Lockheed Martin is also becoming a Model-Based Enterprise with a fully integrated digital thread across the entire product lifecycle. In another world, they are creating the Virtual Twin of the enterprise to drive the greater agility. Now, moving to Life Sciences, Bayer reaffirmed its 90-year partnership with Medidata as a key strategic partner for the clinical research.

As part of their growth strategy, they explored other solutions, but realized none could meet their high standards. With this renewal and expansions, Bayer is accelerating its clinical trials, both by increasing the volume of studies conducted with us and expanding the use of our portfolio of products to transform also their manufacturing. So they are also preparing the future with Rave Lite for early phase studies and expanding the use of Patient Cloud, making it easier for patients to participate remotely. This isn't just a contract renewal. It's a clear acknowledgment of the superiority of the Medidata platform. Now, to conclude with the customer wins, BIAD has chosen the 3DEXPERIENCE platform to transform the hospital construction. By leveraging the Virtual Twin and simulations, we enhance patient care, reduce the wait times, and optimize the operations. Reducing the knowledge has increased productivity by 30% and cut costs by 15%.

With our productization approach, BIAD is setting new standards in quality and efficiency. The first hospital virtual twin was completed in just 90 days, and another 19 will follow in Beijing alone, really transforming the industry at large. This is how we drive innovation in the specialized construction market. A final note on construction markets: you know that China accounts for more than 25% of the global construction market. To accelerate our market penetration, we are launching a joint venture for sustainable building and cities in China with CSADI, a leading architecture and engineering institute employing over 5,000 engineers.

For the ones who are very interested by this, you know they just published a complete scientific analysis in the famous Nature, and you have the link in the chart, showing that combining 3DEXPERIENCE with the virtual twins reduces the construction time by 25%, the cost by 10%, the waste by 15%, and improves the quality by nearly 20% at the same time. Now, I want to move to the strategic sections. You remember, just one year ago, we announced our 2040 horizons. We call it the generative economy, which is the convergence of the experience economy. You remember, the experience economy, a product is not enough. You need an experience which goes with it. It is a convergence of the experience economy with a circular economy. It is really about taking the inspiration from the living world to generate rather than consume.

For our customers, the generative economy provides tremendous opportunity when it comes to creating sustainable products and services, reinventing a circular way of life, providing accessible and quality care, for example, for home. The generative economy is a knowledge economy. It's an economy of the virtual assets in which intellectual property will serve as a new currency. And tomorrow's industry leaders will be those with the best developed knowledge and know-how assets. As a consequence, today, as part of the generative economy, we are introducing the 3D Universes and their related AI-based services. In fact, the 3D Universes are a new class of representation of the world. And for the ones who are following us for a long time, you know that Dassault Systèmes DNA is really inventing industry-changing representation of the world.

3D Universes are the seventh generation of representations that we introduced over the past 40 years, allowing a new way of imagining, creating, and producing. So just a quick recap: Generation 1 was really about the 3D modeling for digital pre-assembly. Generation 2 was the digital mockup for design in context. Generation 3 was PDM on how to couple the information with the representations for collaboration through project and program management in the engineering and manufacturing domains. Generation 4 was related to the product lifecycle management for better traceability and better certification. Generation 5 is a Virtual Twin. It's how we can replicate the real, but by elevating it because it's all the knowledge and know-how embedded into the things. The virtual Generation 6 is about Virtual Twin Experience. And you remember, it was moving from things to life, making biology as an integrated part of the Virtual Twins.

All of those generations are creating a rich legacy of intellectual property. It was created with our customer base, the largest in our sector. And now we have the benefit to have the largest knowledge base in our market. So what are the 3D universes? The 3D universes is, in fact, a combination of modeling, simulation, and real-world evidence with the artificial intelligence-generated content. They embedded multiple generative AI technologies at the core of our platform. They will allow customers to fully explore their rich and high-quality patrimony of 3D designs, virtual twins, or PLM datas. And the 3D universes offer a unique and secure industry environment for combining and cross-simulating virtual twins, on one hand, and for training the multiple artificial intelligence engines, while at the same time, we are protecting the customer intellectual property. As a consequence, we are introducing new artificial intelligence-based services.

The first one is generative experience, an experience that is not created by humans but with artificial intelligence. The second is virtual companions, which is really a way to upskill our role and processes portfolio. And lastly, an intelligent virtual twin experience as a service, which, in my view, is preparing what will be the future of the professional services in our industry. Now, let me give you an industry view of the 3D universes. In each of the three sectors, we are focusing on the value areas centered around what we call the end products and services, the core value created by our customers for the end users. With 3D universes, our ambition is to virtualize the entire cycle of life of these end products. And 3D universes make it possible for customers to create a virtual twin of everything for everyone.

Virtualizing the cycle of life is possible by connecting virtual and real and connecting the virtual twin together. For instance, for a car, we can connect the virtual twins of its designs, engineering, and manufacturing, and the usage at the same time. It's a crucial factor because in the 3D Universes, we want to make generativity traceable because 3D Universes are really science-based spaces for understanding, experimenting, and learning at the same time. For example, in life sciences and healthcare sectors, I think with our multiphysics and multibiology modelers, we provide the virtual twin of the heart of a specific patient, and by combining the modelization and simulation with artificial intelligence, the surgeon can now generate therapeutic scenarios and validate them, so the 3D Universes are becoming the Virtual Companion of the surgeons, helping them to make the best decisions.

Protecting the patient data is just as essential as protecting the citizen data. And in the infrastructures and city sectors, I think we are also providing 3D universes being powered by artificial intelligence. And we are clearly offering a trusting environment to manage the complexity by aggregating the multiple corpuses of data, whether it's the citizen's data, the city planning, the flow, the traffics. We are integrating all of them into a unified model. And from there, we are generating life experiences. So with this plasticity, I think the 3D universes are becoming an operating system for the cities. As a consequence, with 3D universes, we are repositioning Dassault Systèmes as the most trusted IP generation and management company. This is a major strategic move for our customers across the three sectors we serve, equivalent to what we did in 2012 with 3D experiences in terms of impacts.

To summarize, I think 3DEXPERIENCE embedded multiple generative AI technologies at the core of our platforms. Our multi-AI platform provides customers with world-class secure environments to reveal and generate their own knowledge and know-how with rapid deployment. AI is really about empowering organizations, consumers, patients, and citizens with knowledge and know-how. With this, we are expanding our offering in addition to our industry solutions, processes, and roles by introducing new categories of experience as a service, the first one being the generative experiences, the second one the virtual companions, and the third one the Intelligent Virtual Twin Experience as a Service. Finally, all of this is about trust. 3D Universes make generativity reliable. I think we are committed to protecting our customers' intellectual property.

And thanks to our 40 years of industry legacy and immense customer base we have, we train our artificial intelligence engines on the most meaningful corpuses to create the highest value for our customers. So those key points will be regularly addressed in our communications on a quarterly basis, but it will be also the focal point for our upcoming Capital Market Day in June. In the meantime, I think it's time now to hand over it to Rouven. Rouven, you have the floor.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Pascal. Good afternoon and good morning to everyone, to you in the United States. The quarter is a strong proof point of our resilience and competitiveness, translating to 9% growth in software revenue and solid margin expansion of 70 basis points. Clearly, it demonstrates the trusted customer and partner relationships we have built over decades, and many have expanded their commitments with us in 2024. For the full year 2024, I would like to highlight the operational strength of our business. Thanks to productivity gains and effective resource allocation, we achieved healthy EPS growth of 9% and improved cash conversion in a volatile market environment. Now, let's review the financials for the quarter and for the full year in more detail. In Q4, total revenue grew 7%, driven by strong growth in new business, up 13%.

Operating margin improved by 70 basis points to 36.3%, and we delivered EPS at $0.40, up 11%. For the full year 2024, total revenue was up 5%, with software revenue growing at 6% and subscription revenue at 10%. Our subscription growth trends continue to be strong. When excluding Medidata, the growth is 20% for the year. This is driving up the share of recurring revenue to now 80% of our software revenue. Operating margin was 31.9%, and EPS was EUR 1.28, up 9% year over year, driven by productivity improvements. At the same time, we remained focused on innovation. It is how we differentiate and how we win against competition across all sectors. Now, with that, let's review our growth drivers. 2024 has been a year of competitive success, driven by the expansion of 3DEXPERIENCE across industries, domains, and geographies.

In Q4, 40% of the 3DEXPERIENCE deals were competitive displacements. Industry leaders are adopting the 3DEXPERIENCE platform as a knowledge platform across the entire enterprise and value network. This is reflected in the strong 3DEXPERIENCE growth, with software revenue of EUR 376 million, up an impressive 22% in Q4. In the quarter, large transactions with a value greater than EUR 5 million contributed 90% to the 3DEXPERIENCE software growth. While cloud revenue for the group grew 7% in 2024, mainly due to the lower contribution of Medidata, cloud revenue excluding Medidata was up 41% in the year, with 3DEXPERIENCE cloud up over 50%. The cloud represented 24% of our full-year software revenue. Now, let's review briefly how we performed relative to our objectives for Q4. Total revenue came in around the midpoint of guidance. The performance was driven by software revenue growth.

Operating margin was at 36.3%, 20 basis points below the midpoint of guidance, and EPS at EUR 0.40, which was above the midpoint thanks to the resilience of our business model as expenses were largely in line with revenue growth. Now, let me turn the focus on our geographies and product lines, starting with the geos. Europe showed strong growth acceleration in Q4. It was up 14% and 6% for the full year, led by France and southern Europe thanks to large deals closed in aerospace and defense and home and lifestyle. Also, as you just heard from Pascal and saw in our press release this morning, we signed a strategic agreement with Volkswagen Group, expanding our footprint significantly across the group and into manufacturing, ramping up over the next years. In the Americas, revenue was up 5% in Q4 and 4% for the full year.

Competitive displacements are driving our momentum, most notably in aerospace and defense. Lockheed Martin entered an agreement to expand their 3DEXPERIENCE footprint across new programs and into manufacturing. In Asia, performance was good in the quarter, up 7%, led by healthy double-digit growth in Japan and India, while China was rather soft in the quarter in parts due to the high baseline effect from 2023. For the full year, Asia demonstrated resilient growth, with software revenue up 9%, and it was led by Japan, India, as well as good performance of Southeast Asia. Now, let's turn to the product line performance. Industrial innovation software revenue grew 8% in Q4, driven by strong momentum with 3DEXPERIENCE wins. Our industrial customers are looking for best practices to redefine engineering and manufacturing, connecting virtual and real worlds.

This is driving also the exceptional growth in manufacturing this quarter, with DELMIA up over 30%. In life sciences, we saw the expected improvement of Medidata, returning to growth, up 1% in Q4. As Pascal outlined, 2024 was a year of transformation to reposition Medidata in our life sciences strategy. The strategy is endorsed by our clients. In the fourth quarter, we signed key long-term renewals with several top 10 pharma, including several win-backs and platform expansions with our most strategic accounts. Most notably, with Eli Lilly, we expanded our top 10 pharma footprint, signing a strategic enterprise agreement, including Rave. All of the above resulted in healthy bookings growth for this last year, driven by large pharma and mid-market, highlighting our competitive strength. On the flip side, we still see a degree of caution in terms of bookings growth from CRO partners.

The business dynamics for large pharma and mid-market are driven by innovation and transformation, while CROs are much more dependent on volume of study starts. In total, we won more than 200 net new customers with Medidata in 2024 and expanded our market share by over one point in clinical trials, driven by large share gains in phase three and two. Mainstream innovation continued the strong momentum we saw throughout 2024. What stands out this quarter is also the growth acceleration of SOLIDWORKS, delivering high single digits, while Centric continued the outstanding performance throughout 2024 and delivered a strong finish in Q4, driven by an exceptional number of renewals. Notable deals for Centric in the quarter included LVMH, Leclerc, H&M, and SSense.

To fulfill our growth in the years to come with Centric, we are expanding to new verticals within consumer industries and position the PLM approach as an end-to-end business platform for the consumer-centric industries. Now, turning to cash flow and balance sheet items. Cash and cash equivalents totaled EUR 3,953 million at the end of 2024, compared to EUR 3,568 million at the end of 2023, an increase of EUR 384 million. At the end of Q4, our net cash position totaled EUR 1,459 million, an increase of EUR 881 million versus a net cash position of EUR 578 million on December 31st, 2023, and it's up over 2.5 times. Now, let's look at what is driving our cash position at the end of the fourth quarter. We generated EUR 1,660 million operating cash flow for the full year, a 6% increase for this last year.

This was driven by higher net income, while year-over-year changes in working capital were flat. Higher increases in trade AR reflect strong business activity in Q4 and were partially offset by an increase in contract liabilities. Non-operating working capital was favorable, mainly thanks to lower tax payments. For further details, please see our reconciliation on operating cash flow published this morning. Thanks to the improved working capital, cash conversion from non-IFRS operating income was up by 3 points to 84%. To conclude, operating cash flow for the year was used for cash dividend paid in Q2 of EUR 303 million, the net purchase of treasury shares totaling EUR 374 million, CapEx investments of EUR 189 million for new offices in France, U.S., India, and IT equipment, and the repayment of lease liabilities of EUR 80 million and EUR 501 million for repayment of debt net of proceeds.

Now, let's turn to our fiscal year 2025 outlook. As you saw in this morning's press release, we expect our full year 2025 total revenue growth in the range of 6%-8%, with software revenue growth at 6%-8% as well. Subscription revenue growth is expected to be in the range of 13%-15%, driving new business growth up in the range of 9%-12%. We expect the share of recurring revenue to reach 81% of software revenue in 2025, and service revenue growth is expected at 3%-6%. In terms of profitability, we anticipate the full year 2025 operating margin in the range of 32.6%-32.9%, a year-over-year expansion of 70-100 basis points ex-FX and EPS up 7%-10%. This reflects strong operating leverage thanks to the productivity gains we achieved in 2024 that will now come into effect.

We ended 2024 on a strong note, demonstrating great resilience in a year that presented new challenges but also opportunities. Let me share the key assumptions to the 7% total revenue growth in 2025. First, we expect the momentum of 3DEXPERIENCE adoption to continue to drive growth in industrial innovation across key industries such as aerospace, defense, industrial equipment, and also high-tech. The auto sector continues to play a crucial role. However, we reflected some degree of caution by reducing the contribution of this sector to our outlook. The potential of 3DEXPERIENCE in 2025 is to expand our footprint in manufacturing and the value network. In mainstream innovation, we see an increase of confidence by our partners to drive the growth in SOLIDWORKS with new users and platform expansion.

Centric PLM had an exceptional year driven by a large renewal cycle in 2024, and now in 2025, we expect the growth to be aligned with our midterm plan of mid to high teens. In life sciences, we expect mid-single-digit growth for Medidata. This considers continued momentum with large pharma and mid-market clients, while we anticipate CROs will continue to face volume pressures in study starts similar to 2024. It's important to highlight that our confidence with large pharma is driven by the adoption of newly launched products. With Clinical Data Studio, we are revolutionizing data management, applying AI to reduce timelines, risk, and ensure safety. As it relates to early and late-phase markets, we are now well-positioned with Rave Lite to capture incremental growth in this dynamic market. It represents a key pillar to our growth strategy in 2025 and beyond.

And now for Q1, let me provide you some insights which will help you to model the starting point. We see a more balanced year between H1 and H2 compared to last year. In Q1, we anticipate total and software revenue growth in the range of 3%-8%, reflecting a degree of caution on the timing of certain deal signatures in the current context. To complete the picture, subscription growth is anticipated in the range of 8%-14%, and upfront license revenue between 0%-9% growth. In terms of profitability, we expect the operating margin to be in the range of 31%-31.1%, and fully diluted EPS at $0.30-$0.32 or up 3%-7% growth year-over-year FX. Now, in conclusion, 2024 confirmed the strong customer relationships evidenced by a number of large breakthrough competitive wins in our core sectors.

This reflects the confidence from our clients ready to engage in the long term. We prepared 2025 with the right investments to open a new era and to expand our customer relationships with 3DEXPERIENCE while delivering our EPS target in 2025 thanks to productivity advancements. I want to thank you again for joining us for this call. And now, Pascal and I would like to take your questions.

Operator

Thank you very much, Béatrix. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you have any questions, please press star one on your tablet or keypad. And just make sure your mute function is not activated to let your signal reach your equipment. Today's first question is coming from Balaji Tirupati, calling from Citi. Please go ahead.

Balajee Tirupati
Analyst, Citi

Hi, good morning and good afternoon. Balaji Tirupati from Citi. Two questions from my side, if I may.

Firstly, I'd like to congratulate you on results and also successfully closing some of the large deals in the quarter. Could you share color firstly on Lockheed Martin deal? And can you confirm here if the closed deal covers the complete scope that had slipped out of second quarter? And then on the Volkswagen deal, as the expanded scope includes 3DEXPERIENCE platform on the cloud, would it be fair to think that there is no upfront revenue element from that deal? And then I have a follow-up question.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Yes, thank you first of all for this. And I can answer, address the first two questions. And Pascal, please add to Lockheed. You're right. It is a cloud deal, so there's no upfront revenue involved in this. There are milestones in this contract. And on these milestones, we are building up the ramps.

So there are events in this contract over time where we'll see this contract ramping up and producing more revenue. But it's an all-recurring run rate that is building up. This is to the Volkswagen deal. And to Lockheed Martin, the Lockheed Martin deal, of course, evolved over 2024 in terms of its scope and size. At the end, we were very pleased with the outcome. But it also leaves room for future growth. I want to be clear about this. And it's a significant expansion compared to the previous footprint because we are now entering manufacturing in a big way.

Balajee Tirupati
Analyst, Citi

Very clear. Thanks. And the follow-up question on margin side. Looking at your 2024 outlook, it would appear that expectation is for headcount growth to remain at probably 2%-3% level.

While you're working towards supporting further acceleration and growth beyond 2025, are you also realizing or factoring efficiency gains internally from the AI technologies?

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Sure. We are factoring productivity gains from automation, where we can automate and make a lot of sense to invest and drive automation and simplification. We have started this quite some time ago. We see the effect of it also in 2024 already. The margin of Q4 is a strong acceleration compared to the beginning of 2024. We were catching up at the end of 2024 because of those efforts that we have started well before. We have been able to lower our hiring rate because of it, certainly in the area of G&A. We will continue to hire and invest in R&D and sales. We'll continue to invest in the areas that are growing fast, like Centric.

In terms of productivity, we also, I think, did a good job in Medidata to adjust our baseline, which is now giving us good operating leverage to reinvest. All of those components together are giving us a good starting point for margin expansion coming into 2025.

Balajee Tirupati
Analyst, Citi

Can I use your question to clarify one topic? Yes, please.

Pascal Daloz
CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Yeah. Since the beginning of the company, we are not hiring developers. We have built the company on the fact that we were hiring high-profile engineers, people who have the ability to imagine the future, to design and to create the new products, to create the new methodology or the new approach to the design, manufacturing, simulation, test, and so on.

Why I'm saying this is because for all the companies who are saying that they will replace the people by using artificial intelligence to generate the code, this is not the case of the system. It has been a long time we are generating the code automatically. It's not new for us. So this is an important topic for you to keep in mind. I think what you are mentioning is a big topic for IT services companies because they are the ones developing the code on demand for specific customers. And this could be replaced by the artificial intelligence engines. So that was my first comment. The second comment is, if you remember, in 2023, we did a lot of investment on the sales on the field side. And we were expecting to have the benefit of the investment, the return of investment in 2024.

In 2024, specifically for the first three months, we did not have the full benefit of this investment. And that's the reason why we are basically investing a little bit less in sales and marketing. But we are keeping the investment we are planning to do in research and development, specifically at the time where we are launching the generation seven of our new technology.

Balajee Tirupati
Analyst, Citi

Thank you. Really glad to see it does go back to consistent margin growth, being consistent margin growth story. Congratulations once again. Thank you.

Pascal Daloz
CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you so much.

Operator

Thank you, Mr. Tirupati. Our next question will be coming from Nicolas David of Oddo BHF. Please go ahead, sir.

Nicolas David
Analyst, ODDO BHF

Yes. Good afternoon, Pascal and Rouven. Thank you for taking my question. The first one is regarding SOLIDWORKS. You showed a nice performance in Q4.

Could you please elaborate a bit more on what has driven this uptick in growth? Was it some more licenses which can be a bit exceptional? Or is it really the first benefit of the move to subscription, and what do you see for 2020-2025, and maybe also some modeling question. The first one is also linked to the previous question regarding OpEx. So can we imagine that the 6% is a new normal in terms of OpEx growth for the next two to three years, or we can expect that efficiency gains will fade and you will have to be back to a bit higher OpEx growth from 2026 onwards, and also, in terms of tax rate, could you give us a bit more visibility on what you expect for the tax rate longer term? Can it stay as low as it is expected for 2025? Thank you.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Okay. Cool. Thank you, Nicolas. I tried to get through the three questions sharply. For SOLIDWORKS performance, I think the best way to categorize it or to summarize it. It was broad-based. And when I say that, in terms of the models, it was based and also the volumes were strong. So we're winning market share. We see the confidence in our partners in the segments of where we're selling the licenses. And we have one to three seed clients, but also in our ability to expand with our platform. So this was a very good quarter. And we expect SOLIDWORKS performance. You asked about 2025, to be mid-single digit plus for 2025. The subscription transition is well underway. The bookings from subscriptions are growing very nicely. And the decline in licenses is very marginal.

So the transition rhythm is, I think, in a very good place, producing overall very solid growth. From an OpEx standpoint, we are focused on productivity. We want to make sure we are investing at the right pace. We need to be focused on the timing of the investments and the speed that is important. And right now, our focus is now to accelerate revenue growth. We're now at 6%-8%. And we'll set the foundation for further acceleration in 2026. That's our focus. And I do not see any reason why we shouldn't continue to be able to also expand our profitability as we do that. But we'll need to be mindful on how much leverage we want to put back into the business to ensure we'll hit the double-digit growth. That's the number one priority.

On the tax rate, we have good, well, I want to be careful to say that we thought we had good visibility coming into 2025. Now, there's potentially a lot of things at stake with new tax laws in the United States that the new administration is working on, that we do not have too much visibility. But if we assume it is business-friendly, I think we should have a benefit from that, or we should not be, it should not be worse compared to what it is today. So I'm not so concerned about it. But there will be change for sure that we have to master. And related to the French side, in terms of the exceptional tax that is currently in discussion, that could be an exposure of EUR 20-22 million for 2025. So it's manageable for us.

And given it's exceptional, it would also be not part of our non-IFRS financial statements. But nevertheless, it has a cash impact. Now, for the longer term, I think we are very well advanced in tax planning so that we have fairly good visibility. And we are able to offset risks and opportunities because we can anticipate them. And it gives us a certain stability, as you have seen over the last years. And that's a good place to be.

Nicolas David
Analyst, ODDO BHF

All right. Thank you. And regarding your comments earlier regarding operating cash flow in line with EBIT or operating profit, does it include exceptional tax in France in your calculation, or will it come at a negative base from your initial comments?

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Well, EUR 20 million is not too much, right? And EUR 1.8 billion. So yeah, it can be a factor, I would say.

There are many factors, of course, in operating cash flow on a full year, but it's a small factor. But 8% of the statement that I made is valid. We're in line with the operating income growth, and this is how we should think.

Nicolas David
Analyst, ODDO BHF

All right. And the Forex upside potentially.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Initially, we didn't discuss, but we are pretty cautious, I think.

Nicolas David
Analyst, ODDO BHF

Thank you.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, just due to time constraints, could you please limit yourselves to one question? So just one question each so other people have the opportunity to ask questions. So ladies and gentlemen, one question. We'll now move to Michael Briest of UBS. Please go ahead.

Michael Briest
Managing Director, UBS

Thank you. Good afternoon. Just on the cloud, the non-Medidata cloud growth slowed to 19% from, I think, 38% in Q3. I appreciate there's some lumpiness in it.

But how do you see that progressing this year given contracts like Volkswagen? And how do you think about the 3 billion EUR ambition for 2028? Thank you.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Michael. So if you look at the cloud growth for the full year, it's up 41% excluding Medidata. So I think it's not bad. We signed cloud deals in Q4 2024 that will contribute strongly to 2025. So we're confident about our growth outlook. Medidata will also come back. So overall, the cloud number will benefit, and growth will accelerate. That's the message for 2025: cloud growth accelerating. And as it relates to our 3 billion target for 2028, given that we see a strong trend of 3DEXPERIENCE deals being a strong combination of cloud and still some legacy on-premise footprint, the share of cloud in our revenue is increasing. And it's very visible on large transactions.

There's almost no large deal where there's not a cloud component included. And that gives us good visibility and confidence and puts all our customers on the roadmap of cloud deployments. And from that perspective, I think we are much advanced compared to the beginning of the year, even though there's some lumpiness we had in 2024. You're right. And we would have liked to see that number growing faster in 2024, but we signed a lot of contracts that will start to contribute to growth in 2025.

Michael Briest
Managing Director, UBS

Okay. Thank you. And what have you done to reduce the back-end loaded nature of the year? I know last year, a lot of deals were going to be in Q4. So what have you done to bring forward those deals?

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Well, some is difficult to control. I'll be honest.

I think important is we delivered and signed the deals in the year. 2024, I think, was an exception as it relates to this for multiple reasons. In 2025, as I said, the pipeline is much more balanced between H1 and H2. It's also less dependent on the auto sector as it was in 2024. And yeah, I think. Thank you. I mean, I tried almost everything on this, changing the incentive for the salespeople, for the resellers, sometimes giving favorable terms for the customers to sign earlier. The truth is, I mean, Q4 has always been bigger than the other quarters. And it's true for all the software companies. I mean, the last quarter of the year, the fiscal year is always bigger than the rest. So it is what it is. After the question is how to secure them, which is the real question.

And this is where I think we are making probably much more effort this year to assess the profile of the pipeline relatively to the potential exposure to the macroeconomics in order to have the ability to offset if something is happening. And if you remember last year, I think we started the year with 38% of the pipeline coming from the auto sector. And I think we took too much time to rebalance the pipeline creations to offset it. It's not a mistake we are doing the same. I mean, we are much more careful this year in the way we are managing it to be much more balanced, to be much more diversified, to have a balanced contribution between the large deal and the mid-size deal. That's the best answer I can give to you.

Michael Briest
Managing Director, UBS

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you much, sir.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, we have time for only one last question. And today's last question will be from Jay Vleeschhouwer of Griffin Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Jay Vleeschhouwer
Managing Director, Griffin Securities

Thank you. Good afternoon. Pascal, to start with you, I'd like to understand the portfolio implications of the 3D Universes news. That is to say, will this have the effect of increasing portfolio complexity through additional trigrams, for example, and new pricing? Or is it intended to have the opposite effect of perhaps more simplification of the portfolio in terms of products and pricing, and thereby perhaps improve the saleability of the products? Secondly, for Rouven, a year ago in your 2023 annual report, you noted that your remaining performance obligations coming out of 2023 were EUR 2.44 billion, and your current RPO for 2024 was almost EUR 1.3 billion.

Perhaps you could update us on one or both of those numbers as of the end of 2024, looking into 2025. And then finally, the obligatory SOLIDWORKS question, it looks as though on initial calculation that your 2024 SOLIDWORKS volume, as traditionally calculated, that is new seats for SOLIDWORKS, were just over 83,000 for the year. So a new record, but perhaps not quite as much as you had thought initially you would do for 2024. Thank you.

Pascal Daloz
CEO, Dassault Systèmes

So Jay, let me come back to the perceived complexity. No, but it is an interesting question. And I know it is coming from the resellers, what you say. But let me tell you something. We took the decision almost a decade ago when we came with 3DEXPERIENCE to be industry-focused. As soon as you start to look at from an industry standpoint, the portfolio is not complex.

You have a set of solutions, a set of properties, and a set of roles which are dedicated for a given industry. It's becoming complex if you are not adopting this approach, and this approach is the approach for the direct sales, and this is the approach for what we call the VP, the value partner. This is not the approach for the mainstream where we have a limited number of packages. Now, to answer to the questions, I mean, the new categories of AI-based related services, whatever generative experience or virtual companions or virtual twin as a service, will come on top of the portfolio, but it will be associated to the portfolio, so if you take a role, whatever it is, for example, a mechanical designer or a system architect, you will have a collection of virtual companions attached to this role.

So from a packaging standpoint, this will be attached in a simple way. And from a pricing standpoint, this is opening a new question, which is for right now, the entire pricing system is based on the named user. And with the virtual companions, we have to price those virtual companions independently. So it will be as an addition to the traditional approach. But I do not. Again, to come back to your questions, I think this is not inducing complexity as soon as you are adopting the way we want to go to the market. But if you try to mix the two models, the industry with the mainstream, it doesn't work.

Jay Vleeschhouwer
Managing Director, Griffin Securities

Okay. And the two other questions, please. Thank you.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Regarding the backlog visibility, what's your question, Jay?

Jay Vleeschhouwer
Managing Director, Griffin Securities

Yes.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

The backlog visibility, when we look at our subscription revenue guidance for 2025, which is 14% at the midpoint, we have well over 80% of this target covered in our baseline or run rate, or call it backlog, which comprises of all the contracts that we have signed that produce revenue in 2025, plus the renewals that are anticipated at the par level, the same contractual value. So no upside or no upsell included. And we have well over 80% of that target covered. The remainder, in order to deliver the 14% growth, is also well covered with our pipeline. So we have good visibility towards the subscription number. We signed a lot of large contracts in the last one and a half years. They all have one in common. They're recurring.

And they also left room to further activate and uplift value up and increase the commitments with our clients as we expand our footprint through 3DEXPERIENCE. So this is as much as I can share with you now, but it's giving us good confidence on our visibility for subscription, which is a big number in our overall software revenue growth.

Jay Vleeschhouwer
Managing Director, Griffin Securities

Okay. And Pascal, before you get to the SOLIDWORKS question, maybe a clarification again on the universe thing. This is not yet what we would consider to be architecturally V7. That is the architectural successor to V6. This is more really about packaging new capabilities, but not a fundamental change in the plumbing.

Pascal Daloz
CEO, Dassault Systèmes

It is not a new architecture. As we say, it's a new generation of technology we are embedded into the current architecture, which is the 3DEXPERIENCE platform. So you're right.

Jay Vleeschhouwer
Managing Director, Griffin Securities

Okay.

And SOLIDWORKS?

Pascal Daloz
CEO, Dassault Systèmes

The question was for you.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Oh, sorry. The calculation was that you did over 83,000 licenses for the year as traditionally measured. Well, we grew the number of licenses over double-digit year over year. Q4 was even better than the full year. So we saw an acceleration at the end of the year. So we should be well within your model and within our model with this performance.

Jay Vleeschhouwer
Managing Director, Griffin Securities

Okay. Understood. Thank you both.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you much, sir.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the call back over to Mr. Daloz for any additional or closing remarks. Thank you.

Pascal Daloz
CEO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you, Goerge. So I really would like to thank you for your participation and your presence in this call.

As I was saying, I hope to see most of you in person in the coming weeks because Rouven and Béatrix will be on the road to do the roadshow, and anyway, this year, we have the Capital Market Day in June, which is an important milestone, I think, given the fact that we announced the Generation 7, and I will come back on this to give more illustrations, more projections about what it means, but remember what I told you. I'm very excited with these new universes. This is really a game changer for our customers, and the universes. Almost remember when we came with 3D Experience in 2012, it's the same impacts, so be ready. I think you will see us communicating on a regular basis and coming with proof points about how much progress we are doing on this front.

And on this, this is, I think, concluding this call. So thank you again for your participation. See you soon.

Rouven Bergmann
CFO, Dassault Systèmes

Thank you so much, sir.

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today's presentation. Thank you for your attention. You may disconnect. Have a good day and goodbye.

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