Bouygues SA (EPA:EN)
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May 8, 2026, 5:39 PM CET
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Earnings Call: Q4 2023

Feb 27, 2024

Speaker 5

`[Foreign Language] .

Well, good morning to one and all. That is our new corporate film, highlighting our employees, their know-how, which is our only real asset. And this is why we have put them front and center of stage. Now, before beginning today's presentation, I'd just like to say a few words on this cover slide. This is a swimming pool that will be completed for the diving competitions and artistic swimming competitions in this summer's Olympic Games. You can see the good integration into the environment with the use of solar panels and timber, which will considerably reduce our carbon footprint. Okay, let's now move on directly into our presentation, and I'm on page four. Our results for 2023 are good, even very good. We've achieved the goals we set ourselves. Our sales reached EUR 55 billion, COPA up 3%, sales up 11% by comparison with the 2022 pro forma statements.

Equans is rolling out its strategic plan on target. Its COPA margin was 2.9%, which is the upper end of the range announced at the Capital Markets Day when we announced between 2.5%-3%. Our net debt has also improved considerably. This is a great source of satisfaction to us. Finally, Bouygues Construction, Bouygues Immobilier, TF1 have all been certified for their reduction of carbon by the SBTi. So five out of six of our business segments have been certified. Equans should achieve its certification in the course of 2024. It will be filing for certification in the next few weeks. The construction business has a very good backlog, providing us with good visibility for our future activity.

It's in this broad context that the board, at its meeting of yesterday morning, decided to propose to the AGM on the 25th of April a dividend increase of €0.10, bringing the proposed dividend to €1.90 per share. That's €0.10 more than in 2022. Let's move on to the key figures on page five. The group's sales in 2023 reached EUR 56 billion. That is a 26% increase, which is essentially due to the full integration of Equans in our consolidation over the full year. If Equans had been integrated as of the 1st of January on a pro forma basis, that would have been a 3% increase. COPA rose by EUR 393 million to EUR 2,411 million. That's a EUR 247 million increase, or 11% increase if you prefer, by comparison with the pro forma statements, which includes Equans over the full year.

Net profit attributable was up EUR 72 million to EUR 1.04 billion for the period. Finally, the group's net debt was down to EUR 6.25 billion at the end of 2023, down from EUR 7.45 billion at the end of 2023. That's a good performance, particularly if we take into account the exceptional events that occurred in the course of 2023, and particularly the EUR 310 million that we had to pay to Free Mobile, which we will be appealing, as we have already announced, and we will be also contesting the provisional execution. Before getting into the figures for our different businesses, I'd like to come back to Bouygues Telecom's announcement of last week regarding an exclusivity agreement with La Poste. Because last week, Bouygues Telecom signed on Thursday evening an exclusivity agreement with La Poste concerning the acquisition of the entire share capital of La Poste Mobile.

This also involves a distribution partnership with La Poste. Now, La Poste Mobile is the foremost mobile virtual network operator in the French market, 51% owned by La Poste, 49% by SFR, also the last large MVNO available on the market. La Poste has 2.3 million mobile customers, a very strong brand with a very high level of customer satisfaction, largely thanks to its quality of service and the fact that it's very close to its clients. The catchment area is very vast, particularly in rural areas, which is a further argument in favor of pursuing this agreement.

Now, the reasons that Bouygues Telecom is interested in this acquisition from La Poste Mobile, well, overall, beyond the fact that it's the last remaining MVNO available in the market, this is an opportunity for us to strengthen our position in mobile and fixed business based on a nationwide distribution while increasing EBITDA after leasing in a fixed cost sector. First of all, this enables us to increase Bouygues Telecom's mobile customer base by some 2.3 million clients. This will also provide a new fixed offering for La Poste Mobile's customers, and it will also strengthen Bouygues Telecom's presence in the professionals and SME segments. This is a transaction that would enable Bouygues Telecom to improve its profitability in the fixed cost sector, given the Bouygues Telecom's radio network, which does not require any additional CAPEX in acquiring La Poste Mobile's customers.

Our acquisition costs for 2025, 2026, with a view to preparing for the migration of clients. This is a migration that could begin at the end of the wholesale agreement currently in force with SFR, and which expires at the end of December 2026. After that migration, which would take place in the course of 2027, the contribution to the group's EBITDA will be approximately EUR 140 million per annum from 2028 onwards. Concerning the acquisition price, I have two pieces of information. The acquisition price for the shares is EUR 950 million, which corresponds to an enterprise value of EUR 964.4 million. These amounts will be tweaked based on the timetable for completion of the transaction.

This is obviously subject to consultation with employee representative bodies, which we expect to have completed by the end of 2024, again, subject to authorization from the antitrust authorities, and subject to SFR not exercising its preemption right on this entity. If this significant transaction closes, Bouygues Telecom will communicate, at the very latest within the months following its completion, will communicate a new guidance which will replace the Ambition 2026 guidance announced during our Capital Market Day on the 15th of January. We'll obviously keep you posted throughout this year 2024. Let's now begin the strategic review. With this slide, we wanted to talk to you about corporate social responsibility, important topics for us, which we articulate around three main thrusts. First of all, we have our people at the very heart of our group, which means that we are very keen to ensure their health, safety, and well-being.

We want to not just welcome our onboard employees, but we want to advance their careers within the group. Thirdly, we share value with our employees. And finally, we promote diversity and gender balance, taking action in favor of inclusion. Secondly, we are keen to contribute to ecological, environmental, and energy transitions. We are keen to preserve resources, to fight climate change, and to protect biodiversity. Thirdly, we are keen to be our stakeholders' most trusted partners. For us, it's essential to respect strict ethical standards, to forge relations based on trust with our suppliers and subcontractors, to ensure compliance with human rights, to demonstrate social responsibility and commitment to society, and to conduct dialogue with our stakeholders. Page 12, as you can see, people are at the heart of our group. As I said, in 2023, that led to an increase of 17,000 employees becoming shareholders in the group.

So there are now 68,000, as of the end of 2023, 68,000 Bouygues employees who own shares in the group. This is evidence of the fact that our employee share ownership program has well integrated Equans very well within the group. I think gender balance is also well in evidence in the fact that 21.4% of the group's managers were women at the end of 2023. This is something we must continue. We must indeed up our efforts, particularly in construction and energy and services. I'd also like to point out that on the 1st of January of this year, we broadened BYCare, which is our common core of harmonized and universal benefits. This is for new parents and offers employees a period of leave to take care of their children with salaries maintained 100%.

Finally, we have launched two programs for high-flying women in France and abroad, a mentoring program for talents beginning their careers, and another training course by the Bouygues Management Institute for Women with strong promotional potential. Page 13, a slide just to say a few words about our commitments to the ecological and energy transitions. We have a whole portfolio of solutions for these purposes that enable us to roll out the plans of action in our SBTi roadmap. Illustrations would include. I'm just going to give you two examples. Recytal, which is a process invented by Colas in the institutional or the corporate program. You saw that we have renovated roads in situ to avoid the large convoys of trucks bringing aggregates and pebbles to this. We just grind up the existing road and remix it with a binder, so no additional aggregates required.

So that's very good in terms of recycling, biodiversity. And the second example I'll give is the use of low-carbon materials. Low-carbon materials, there are also low-carbon metals that we use elsewhere in the group. And these are materials used by Bouygues Construction and Bouygues Immobilier. For instance, in Bouygues Bâtiment in France, in the course of 2023, we were able to reduce the carbon intensity in our concrete by 4%. It's also consistent using timber, biosource materials, or even recycled materials. Page 14, I wanted to say a few words, four important words. First of all, our priority, which is the group's cultural foothold. You can't do anything without a very strong group. This is why we grant particularly important place to the training of our employees, of our managers, and great importance to the importance of ethics ambassadors in all our business.

These are people whom employees can turn to if they have any questions or doubts. These are processes that each and every member of our group must abide by. Finally, I'd like to say that we have revised our vigilance plan. We have a number of prevention plans, and we have also set up a whole series of new measures. Other activities included the continued supplier assessments on the basis of CSO. And finally, we launched the 19th cohort in our Francis Bouygues Foundation. These are young secondary school graduates that we take on as new recruits. Next come up is the greenhouse gas emissions footprint, a total of 21.2 million tons of CO2 equivalent in 2023. We've extended the analysis to Scope 3B. We've included Equans in our calculations. When I say Scope 3B, because that's not including Colas.

The 3B is the carbon footprint and the way our production is used. When you build a road, we have no way of knowing what the 3B footprint will be in the future, depending on whether the engines are internal combustion engines or electric motors. So we've covered 3B, except in the case of Colas, for the reasons I just mentioned. We've also pointed out how our emissions of greenhouse gases have progressed between 2022 and 2023. Broadly, they have been reduced by 1.6 million tons of CO2 equivalent between 2022 and 2023. That's on a like-for-like basis. This is the first time we have reduced greenhouse gas emissions. We must continue. The carbon trajectory that's been identified with our SBTi roadmap will continue to see this carbon footprint reduce over time. Let me now move on to the operational review of our various activities, beginning with construction.

You have here a view of the tunnel, which uses and rather catches rainwater. We have this in the US. Looking at the carbon pathway of Bouygues Construction, that of Colas was confirmed in 2021. Once the carbon pathway has been presented, it has to be validated to get the SBTi ranking. There's a change in governance. We decided to have, at the head of Bouygues Immobilier, a chairman of the board and a CEO. So we have two new faces. Emmanuel Desmaizières spent 25 years with us and 4 years in a competitor, but we're happy to have him back. Welcome, Emmanuel. If you look at the order book, the backlog, it is up 4% compared to 2022 at EUR 28.4 billion, gives us good visibility on future business. Let's take a closer look, starting with Bouygues Construction. In the year 2023, the order intake was EUR 10.6 billion.

This order intake was driven by a number of large projects, which accounted for 50% of the overall orders. There was the Abidjan Metro in Q1, EUR 770 million. The Potomac River Tunnel in the U.S. in Q4 for EUR 480 million, or the extension of the metro line in Hong Kong in Q2 for EUR 470 million. The legacy businesses of Bouygues Construction have remained stable in 2023. And so the backlog stands at EUR 15 billion. It's up EUR 900 million, up 6%. This is mostly civil works, up 12% over one year. Bâtiments International, the international building business, that backlog is up 5% over one year. On its side, Bouygues Immobilier is facing a challenging market. The residential property business is unpredictable. Commercial property has gone to a halt.

So the order book, the backlog is down EUR 500 million year-on-year, down 32% at EUR 985 million. But Colas had large new orders, EUR 13.7 billion in 2023. There were a number of major contracts, the extension of the NSCR metro line in Manila, EUR 660 million, Abidjan Metro, EUR 330 million, or the Old Oak Common Station in the U.K. for EUR 215 million. Colas's backlog is up 6% at EUR 12.4 billion. And this is in particular the rail business internationally, large contracts for one year. The rail backlog is up 39%, whereas for roadworks, that is down 5% over one year. Moving on to page 23, the key businesses of the construction business, revenue was EUR 27.3 billion, up 2% and 4% on a like-for-like basis. It is mostly driven by Colas and Bouygues Construction.

Bouygues Construction is up 5%, mostly international building business. Bouygues Immobilier's revenue is down 14%. Colas's revenue is up 3%, mostly driven by rail, up 6%, whereas the roadwork business is up 3%, mostly due to the EMEA project. COPA, that is the current operating profit from activities, stands at EUR 851 million, and the COPA margin is up 0.2 percentage points at 3.1%. Bouygues Construction's COPA was up year-over-year at EUR 281 million. The margin stood at 2.9%, close to that of 2022 as expected. In a context of a declining business, Bouygues Immobilier in 2023 recorded a COPA down EUR 9 million at EUR 28 million over the year. Colas, for its part, had generated a COPA of EUR 542 million, up EUR 74 million. This was also partly due to the disposal of land property in the UK, Salisbury, in Q3.

The COPA margin stood at 3.4%, up 0.4 percentage points. Moving on to Equans, sorry, there was a slip of the tongue. Maybe it's something to do with nuclear plants. I named a competitor. Looking at page 25, Equans, here you have a picture of something in India. This is, well, from BYES, from high-voltage facilities. The performance is significantly improved, and this is in line with the roadmap presented by Jérôme. Revenue was up 6%. That's more than expected, but that includes the disposal of asset-based businesses. And so if they were sold in 2023, they won't contribute to the 2024 sales figure. COPA ended up in the high end of the bracket announced in the guidance at 2.9%. You may remember that on Capital Markets Day, we said it would be anywhere between 2.5% and 3%.

The conversion rate, COPA to cash flow, stood at before WCR stood at 86%. And again, at Capital Markets Day, we announced a guidance of between 80% and 100%. On the next slide, you can see that in 2023, in a business context, Equans had orders worth EUR 17.4 billion, two-thirds of which internationally, abroad. Over the year, there was a significant volume of orders on data centers, EV parks, gigafactories. These are plants where they built batteries for electric cars in Europe and the U.S. And then short-cycle businesses and recurrent maintenance contracts for industrial sites and public buildings. Equans has a backlog worth EUR 24.8 billion at end December 2023, down 4% compared to end December 2022. But this is in line with our strategy where we will give preference to profitability rather than volume.

Sales stood at EUR 18.8 billion in 2023, a good momentum there. The first positive effects of the PERFORM plan and the asset disposal plan have materialized. COPA margin was up 0.6 percentage point compared to the pro forma 2022. We have a net financial surplus up EUR 800 million over the year, mostly because we generated operational cash flow. Also, there was a positive movement on WCR, plus, of course, the disposal of assets. On page 27 now, Equans in 2027 is expected to continue rolling out its strategic plan. It will be focused on improving performance in, as I said, a favorable context, giving preference to profitability rather than volume. Sales in 2024 should be close to that of 2023. There will be, of course, market effects because that market is growing. There's also scope effects.

You have to remember that we disposed of asset-based businesses. Plus, we're being selective on the projects we choose. The guidance given at the beginning of 2023 in terms of sales, Equans is aiming, starting in 2025, for an acceleration of its organic growth in revenue to be in line with the peers on the market. In terms of margin, the expectation is a COPA margin close to 4% in 2025 and 5% in 2027. In terms of cash, the conversion ratio is expected to be anywhere between 80%-100% from COPA to cash flow before WCR. TF1, I will skip over quickly because you had the results a couple of weeks ago. Rodolphe gave you the presentation. But the outlook for TF1 for 2020 in 2023 proposed to be close to the revenue of 2022 and generating sufficient cash to allow for growing dividends over the next years.

These two objectives were reached. The COPA margin was 12.5%, close to that of 2022 as announced. Net cash was high at EUR 505 million. On extra non-financial numbers, TF1 had SBTI validate its carbon footprint to 2023. But of course, if you look at the buildings of TF1, they don't generate much by way of CO2. We should still look at it. We do it for all our businesses. Looking at key figures for TF1, revenue is down 8% compared to 2022. The media business is down 5%, but only 2% if you consider the scope effects with the disposal of Unify assets over the year. Advertising revenue was down 4%, but it bounced back in H2, reflecting the return of a number of advertisers that decided to advertise their retail brands. Of course, there's the broadcasting of the Rugby World Cup in September and October.

That drew in more advertising revenue. Sales for Newen Studios was down 23% over the year. You know that this was because the comparison base was not favorable because we had last year iconic shows. Then Salto stopped, and Plus belle la vie was produced for television. That was last year. We are also keeping close rein on programming costs. They were down 3% compared to 2022. A stable COPA margin of the media business at 13% made it possible to compensate for the downturn of Newen's COPA margin, the overall margin being 12.2%. 12.5%, sorry. The outlook, the board of directors will propose a dividend of EUR 0.55 per share, up EUR 0.05 per share, up 10% compared to 2022. For 2024, TF1 proposes to pursue its digital roadmap with the promising launch of TF1 Plus. Operating margin, COPA margin should be close to that of 2023.

And of course, we still propose to generate significant cash so as to maintain a strong dividend policy for the next few years. Looking now at Bouygues Telecom, and you have a fine picture here of Bouygues Telecom up in the clouds, as it were. Bouygues Telecom in 2023 reached its targets. The sales billed to customers was targeted. We're aiming for an increase in sales billed to customers. EBITDA after leases was around EUR 1.9 billion. It's exactly EUR 1.969 billion. And capital expenditures were supposed to stand at about EUR 1.5 billion, and they were exactly EUR 1.475 billion. Moving on to page 34, you have the customer base, which is broadening. We had 15.5 mobile plan customers, including M2M, at end 2023. So it's up 287,000 new customers, including 71,000 in Q4. Growth is continuing in FTTH with an additional 574,000 customers, of which 150,000 in Q4.

FTTH customers number 3.6 million, accounting for 73% of the overall customer base. They were only 64% one year ago. Overall, the fixed customers base stands at 4.9 million, up 232,000 customers in 2023, of which 65,000 in Q4. Zooming in now on the fixed line, the fixed line business, this is sort of the star of the show. There are various ways of measuring operator performance, but there's one which is pretty good. It's reality as seen and perceived by customers, looking at boxes of all customers throughout the country. And that gives big trends, which customers themselves can demonstrate because we're looking at their actual set-top box. And from this survey, it turns out that Bouygues comes as number one or equal across technologies for the second year running. And we're number one on Wi-Fi for the fifth year running, according to the nPerf 2023 survey.

Now, this is important because internet use at home involves the Wi-Fi, of course. That's thanks to the fine quality work of the technical teams at Bouygues Telecom. As you can see, the middle chart, which shows ABPU, of course, with a good network, ABPU has been growing steadily to reach EUR 31.4 per bill in Q4 2023. The FTTH rollout is three years ahead of schedule because we have actually reached our objective of 2026, 35 million FTTH premises. Now, these premises, or most of them, Bouygues Telecom will rent out access to FTTH infrastructure, in particular to a joint venture called SDAIF. It sounds like a demonic name. We had BTBD, and now we have SDAIF. We have 49%. Well, these are code names that nobody will copy. Anyway, SDAIF invests in FTTH networks rolled out by Orange in medium coverage areas.

Bouygues Telecom has an option to purchase the entire company, but they will have two new opportunities in 2025 and 2026. And on these occasions, we will decide whether or not to exercise the option. Looking now at the key figures for Bouygues Telecom, I'm therefore on page 36. The commercial momentum remains buoyant, with positive effects both in volume and value, especially for the fixed line business. In 2023, sales built to customers were up 5%. That's because of a sound customer base and a growing fixed ABPU, up EUR 1.9. In the mobile business, ABPU was stable at EUR 19.7 for a number of quarters running now because there are purchasing power issues. People are opting for cheaper deals. And so we don't have the same price increase as we have for the fixed line business.

The EBITDA after lease obligation was up 11% because of higher revenue, lower costs. EBITDA margin after lease obligations was up to 32.9%, up 2.1 percentage points. COPA was up EUR 104 million at EUR 798 million. COPA was up in the same proportions. Free cash flow was EUR 249 million, up EUR 69 million over one year. What's the outlook for Bouygues Telecom in the context of a growing customer base with a view to broadening its network, especially for the mobile business? We're looking at sales base to customers on the rise, EBITDA after lease obligations upwards of EUR 2 billion, and gross CAPEX about EUR 1.5 billion, not including frequencies. I'll now give the floor to Pascal, who will give you details about the accounts.

Thank you, Olivier. I'm going to comment the group's consolidated financial statements, beginning with the income statement.

I'm not going to dwell on the sales or COPA figures that have already been presented by Olivier Roussat. I begin by comparing 2023 to the figures for 2022 as reported. But to simplify your analysis, we've also added to our chart the 2022 pro forma figures. This is drawn up on the basis of Equans having joined the group on the 1st of January, 2022. Now, I should point out that the pro forma figures have not been audited. The first point I'd like to point out on our is that the amount of PPA that was amortized (PPA is the purchase price allocation) EUR 103 million, which breaks down to EUR 62 million that we booked at Bouygues SA on behalf of Equans. The remainder is amortization of lesser amounts for Colas, TF1, and Bouygues Telecom.

Secondly, non-recurring elements, non-current items that are not really representative of activity, totaled EUR 195 million in 2023. Now, these non-recurring items concern the following main issues. First of all, Equans recorded EUR 81 million in non-recurring expenses. About EUR 50 million of these were due to the management incentivization plan that we talked to you about at our capital markets today. But also, consulting fees involved in our various disposal projects and integration costs, in particular IT costs. As for Bouygues Construction, it recorded a non-recurring expense totaling EUR 81 million. In particular, the dispute in Singapore for a building that was completed in 1997, that we talked to you about in previous presentations, and a regulatory change in one of the countries in which Bouygues Construction operates. TF1 recorded EUR 30 million in non-recurring expenses, essentially due to the optimization of its real estate and the various measures concerning its digital transformation plan.

Third thing I'd like to point out is the net cost of our debt rose by EUR 88 million. This increase was mainly due to the increase in financial expense due to the cost of acquiring Equans. As for the lower half of the income statement, we recorded a tax expense of EUR 547 million after EUR 424 million the previous year. Now, this gives us an effective tax rate of 32%, up from 27% in 2022. The effective tax rate in 2023 is mainly due to international taxation constraints, particularly due to our presence in a very large number of countries and the very broad range of tax rates in a number of countries. Finally, the share of net profits of joint ventures and associates totaled EUR 59 million last year.

This was an improvement on the end of 2022, and this improvement was mainly due to the fact that Salto ceased its losses, losses that we provisioned last year. As a result, the net profit attributable to the group amounted to EUR 1.04 billion, up EUR 67 million on the previous period, as Olivier Roussat pointed out earlier on. A few words on the balance sheet. I think the main change was net debt that I now propose to explain in greater detail. As you can see on page 40, at the end of December 2023, our net debt was EUR 6.3 billion, down from EUR 7.5 billion at the end of 2022. I'm not going to comment all of these items, but the main points are the following. First of all, acquisitions net of disposals totaled a positive EUR 205 million. This amount includes notably the disposal of asset-based activities at Equans.

Olivier mentioned these earlier on, but also other acquisitions, disposals, and smaller financial investments carried out during the year at Equans, Colas, or Bouygues Telecom, for instance. This amount also includes the buyback of TF1 shares. The buyout of minorities and delisting of Colas totaled EUR 180 million. The capital increase reserved for employees generated EUR 150 million. The dividend paid out by the group cost a total of EUR 744 million. Of course, we had to pay EUR 310 million, as Olivier said earlier on, to Free Mobile as part of a lawsuit that we will be appealing with vigor, not just to the decision, but also the obligation to execute straightaway. Operations generated EUR 2.2 billion, a very high level that I propose to look at in greater detail on the next page. Let's begin by looking at net cash flow.

This includes the lease expenses. That gave us a total of EUR 3.3 billion, up EUR 303 million on 2022. Net operating CAPEX, excluding frequencies, amounted to EUR 2.1 billion. Broadly speaking, that's stable by comparison with the previous year. The variation in working capital requirement for activities was, as always, affected by the usual seasonal effects. I need hardly remind you that every quarter, it's very difficult to forecast the variation in working capital requirements, particularly in construction. Some years, the variation is positive. That was the case in 2022. In this instance, 2023, the variation was almost EUR 1 billion. This is a very good result. And I think it can be attributed to the very good work of our employees in all our business segments. Naturally, in 2024, we will continue these good efforts. As I've said before, in contracting, we cannot model working capital requirements.

Let's move on to the group's financial structure, page 42. The group's liquidity totals EUR 14.6 billion, totaled EUR 14.6 billion at the end of December. This is a very high level. The amount is comprised of EUR 4.9 million in cash and EUR 9.7 billion in undrawn medium- and long-term facilities. These are covenant-free facilities, as you can see on the bar chart on the right. The breakdown of our debt maturity is very balanced over time. On the next page, you'll see that our gearing has improved by 10 points over the period to 44%. The rating agencies have confirmed their rating, A-minus with the negative outlook in the case of Standard & Poor's, and A-3 with stable outlook in the case of Moody's. I conclude this part by underlining the fact that our next bond redemption will be in October 2026.

At the end of December 2023, the average maturity of our bonds was 8.5 years. That corresponds to an average effective interest rate of 2.25%. On the chart on the bottom right bar chart, you see that while the average maturity of our bond debt has increased since 2019, at the same time, the average effective rate has dropped considerably from 4.09% to 2.25 percentage points. This is an illustration of our good financial discipline that enables us to remain financially independent and enables us to continue our independence in all circumstances. In all circumstances. So thank you for your attention. And Olivier, I'll give you back the floor. Thank you, Pascal. We're going to wrap up with the outlook. We will begin with the group's priorities for 2024.

First of all, for 2024, we have three priorities to continue to integrate Equans into the group and successfully implement its strategy. Equans has become our biggest business segment. Almost half of our employees work for Equans. Secondly, we want to continue to improve our operational financial performance in all our business segments. Thirdly, we intend to implement this year's OD regulation and rollout (that's quite a program) and rollout action plans of action in order to achieve our SBTI targets. We will be doing what it takes to reduce our carbon footprint. We'll be doing for CSRD everything it takes for CSRD too, of course. The outlook for 2024 for the group. Well, first of all, Equans will continue to improve its results in line with its strategic plan called PERFORM. This is under Jérôme's leadership.

Bouygues Immobilier will continue to be faced with a challenging market with very little visibility and no idea as to the timeline for recovery. In an uncertain economic and geopolitical environment and after a year of strong growth, Bouygues is targeting sales and current operating profits from activities, what we call our COPA for 2024, that should be slightly up on 2023. That brings us to the end of our presentation. On this slide, you will see that we have recalled our important dates, the AGM on the 25th of April, dividend payment on the 3rd of May, in particular. We will now take your questions along with Édouard, Pascal, and the heads of the various different businesses who are all present in the front row. First question.

Thank you, Mathieu Robilliard from Barclays. Thank you for your presentation.

I have several questions, but I'd like to begin with the guidance. You've just explained that the environment is politically and macroeconomically uncertain. But if I then look at the businesses individually, it seems that telecoms are doing well, and you expect them to continue to perform well in 2024. You're also talking about Equans progressing. So what is it that has you envisaging only weak growth, low growth at group level in terms of sales and COPA? Is it the weaknesses at Bouygues Immobilier or Colas historically? If you have further details on the guidance, that is my first question. Now, the fact that we don't give guidance regarding Colas, we don't because we feel that with inflation and the forex, it's very difficult to forecast. But broadly speaking, we expect something all else being equal.

As far as Colas is concerned, we expect the situation to be relatively stable. With Bouygues Construction, you've seen that the backlog is very good, very strong, with an order book starting with 4% of the year's business already in the order book. That's more than last year. So that's rather on the good side. That said, we said we were expecting a slight improvement over 2023. Well, with Bouygues Immobilier, there's no knowing because we don't know when the market will pick up. We don't believe that the tertiary market or office market will pick up this year. As for the residential market, it all depends on the various measures decided or taken. There's no way of knowing when that's going to happen.

As for Equans, as we've said, there's a part of Equans that was disposed of at the end of 2023, which will not be producing sales in 2024. So we're expecting something close to what we had in 2023, bearing in mind that for Equans, our objective is to give a profit pride of place over volume. For TF1, we haven't given any guidance on sales. And with Bouygues Telecom, we told you that we expect to be up. Last year, we didn't say any more than that when we commented the results. Well, having said all that, you can concatenate all this. You can aggregate it or put it into whatever you like, and you'll see that that's very consistent with the guidance we've just given you. In a world of uncertainties, we expect stability. The one thing we're uncertain about, most uncertain about, is real estate.

However, in construction, you're rather confident. I said yes, stable, broadly stable. Our order book is strong, good, solid. I'm not going to change that. Okay, fair enough. I have a question regarding the potential deal with La Poste Mobile. You did point out that SFR has a preemption right. Have you any visibility on whether or not visibility? No, we have no visibility because this is part of the process. We must talk to the employee representative bodies, first of all. I think SFR has something like several weeks to decide whether it wants to preempt the remaining share or not, whether they will or will not exercise that right. I don't know. You have to ask Patrick that. And one last question on your free cash flow, particularly your working capital. You have a great answer.

That has all. Well, it will be given to you by Pascal Grangé. I know in advance. Pascal, if you would, please. But my question is, this year, you said that very clearly, this has been a very positive year thanks to the efforts made by all the managers and employees. I'm sure that the efforts will be the same every year. But from one year to the next, there is a very strong level of volatility. Is there a simple explanation, or is it a combination of phenomena and explanations that can explain such a big swing from one year to the next? I think there are structural changes, and there are situational changes. I think the involvement of our employees wouldn't explain everything. Then they will continue, of course, their efforts in 2024. I can confirm that.

But in construction, and particularly in large projects, large contracts, the treasury is not aligned with progress on these projects. So this has a major impact on the group's cash situation. Also, at group level, we have another business segment where we need working capital. And that depends on our success. That is because of our success in fiber. That's the horizontal connections. This takes its toll on working capital requirement in the early stages, which I think deforms the income statement to some extent. So we're not giving any guidance on cash or on working capital requirements as is the case every year because every year, we get that same question on guidance regarding working capital. Good morning, Éric Ravary from the CIC, the French bank. Three questions. My first question concerns Colas. The order book is down 5% for roadways.

That was at the end of 2023. Could you give us the figure for roadways in France separately? My second question concerns Bouygues Telecom. If I remember correctly, I think you had hedged your energy costs to protect Bouygues Telecom from electricity price hikes in recent years. Are there any price hikes or cost increases expected in 2024? The second question concerns the ABPU and mobile phones. And I understand that certain consumers are migrating towards less expensive plans. Is that gathering pace? And could you give us some idea of the churn at Bouygues Telecom and mobile phones? Well, Benoît is processing his answer. I will answer you on roadways in France. In France, we have municipal elections in 2026. So in what we call money time now, in the pre-election years, work is carried out.

This is in evidence in the order intake, which rose by 15% in Q3 by comparison with the previous period. So no concerns about roadways in France. We're still always cautious about what can happen elsewhere in the world. But at least in the current period of time, for Colas in France, things are going well. Benoît. Good morning. The cost of energy. Well, we had contracts up until the end of 2024, and we hedged our energy costs up to the end of 2024. That's not to say that the costs increased. They're higher in 2024 than in 2023 simply because we're consuming more energy. But in 2025, you can imagine that the cost difference will be about EUR 80 million, again, more than in 2024. But that's already built into the plan. We expect these cost increases.

So we've been working on other costs to be sure that we will be on target. As for the ABPU and mobile phones, well, the mobile market is different to the market in previous periods. In terms of volume, the ARCEP, the regulator, has published figures for 2023. In terms of the number of clients with plans, let's say the increase is smaller than previous years. For the general public, there's an increase was 700,000 new plans. It was 1.3 million the previous year. So the growth is slowing. The total number of postpaid clients in France is increasing. But our market share is still quite significant. In terms of average billing per user, yes, there is a certain tension among consumers, and there are a number of consumers adjusting their expenses. We have a whole array of plans and solutions.

So we are making our plans and prices progress in order to increase our ABPU. But there are clients adjusting, tweaking their budgets, and working in the other direction. So all things considered, I think we can expect a stable ABPU over the year. In fixed lines, however, we expect an increase in volumes, a substantial increase in the ABPU based on the quality of what we've been building in fixed lines. We've been attracting clients with better prices, better quality. So the dynamics in fixed ABPU is better, and we'll continue to perform well. Thank you, Benoît. Bonjour, oui. Augustin. Hello. I'm Augustin Cendre from Stifel. I have 3 questions. Number 1, on Equans. Can you give us an update on the possible room for margin improvement during capital market days? You had procurement, procurement, pricing, productivity, and a number of other lines.

And then on Colas, following up on the guidance, there's no guidance because of inflation. But is this because your backlog is more exposed to rail? And then on your use of capital in M&A, could you expect more deals in telecom, in construction, in energy services? Or would we consider making acquisitions in the property business because now the valuations are low? While the others are getting ready to take your questions, I'll take the very last point on possible acquisitions as well. For Bouygues Telecom, well, the last MVNO on the market is up for grabs, as it were. But it's a last one. And so with La Poste Mobile, we have this opportunity. We decide to take advantage of that. That is the last opportunity. Regarding external growth, our strategy remains the same.

We have Colas on the one hand and Equans that propose to gain strength in areas, especially North America and Europe, but also Australia. They are trying to gain more footprint there. And that might entail acquisitions. And now, you had a question for Jérôme, and he's got a microphone. Yes, we do not give details on the profit numbers. But yes, there's big killer, as you said, for Equans, taking out cost centers, working on procurement, pricing, and then productivity. So there were four items, and four, five items, really. They all work, but differently. For instance, on procurement, gains were made on procurement. But now we are introducing a procurement software, which we announced at Capital Markets Day, which is now being rolled out in a number of branches. And that will be continued throughout 2024. It's a major program for 2024.

This should bear fruit not just in 2024, but 2025 and 2026 as well. So the five items, bug killer and all that, we're doing this country by country on all five items. And we are very much on track. We cannot really give a guidance on the various gains in the various items because they tend to be intertwined anyway. But by and large, things are going according to plan. Now, the last question on the non-guidance about Colas. I said that it's not because we have real exposures in a number of countries, but with exchange rate variations and inflation and the consequences on the price of bitumen, we are not in a position to give a guidance. But all things being equal, we would expect things to remain stable. Right. Further questions? Est-ce qu'on bascule sur le téléphone? Oh, maybe there are questions online.

If you wish to put a question, you press star one on the phone. The next question comes from Nicolas Cote-Colisson from HSBC. Hello, Nicolas. Hello, good morning. I'm sorry, I couldn't make it. A couple of questions on telecom and construction. Regarding telecom, can you tell us why it is that the La Poste EBITDA margin after the migration would be 10 points higher than that of Bouygues Telecom? You said this is a fixed-cost business. Well, then you should expect an even higher margin, closer to the gross margin. Is it because of licensing, brands, distribution costs? On telecom, you said unless the Iliad, you will not exercise your option to take control. But you have other opportunities in the following years. But is this because of the capital you have, or would there be consolidation reasons with the Iliad?

And finally, on construction and profit margins there, the COPA margins there, is there any room for growth in the medium term? Or is the 3% the sort of standard that you cannot really do much better than? And then in the U.K., you know that the infrastructure plan is being constantly revised. Hinkley Point is also running behind schedule. Is that covered by your contracts? Sorry, can you repeat that, please? Do we have other clauses in our contracts? Because if you're running behind schedule, I believe these are contracts that are price-linked. Right. No, the yellow tie at the beginning to speak for Colas. No. So Pascal will answer with me. The contract. Look. Okay. They're vying for the microphone here. Regarding civil works in the U.K., we have two big projects, Hinkley Point and HS2. These contracts have an objective cost. That is, it's cost plus fee.

So the risk is well, these are rather de-risked in view of the situation in the UK with uncertain prices. Pascal Grangé, now. Regarding the profit margins on construction contracts, there's the specific issue of Bouygues Immobilier. And now, this is a far cry from the standard medium-term margins we have had before. But it will take some time to get back to that because of the market. At Bouygues Construction, the COPA margins or the standard margins were anywhere between 3%-3.5%. And so we expect the coming years to remain around that, barring any major event. And then at Colas, let me remind you that the COPA margin this year included capital gain on the sale of land. And that itself was about EUR 40 million. So it is stable if you leave that out.

In view of the mix between industry and works, we expect margins to grow and get close to 4% on average. On telecom. Was there a question on telecom, I believe? Of course. Right. There were two questions about telecom. The EBITDA ratio for La Poste Mobile, the contribution of EBITDA of La Poste Mobile was EUR 140 million. By 2028, this will have grown. But you cannot compare the revenue of 2023 and that of 2028. But we're looking at a figure higher than EUR 300 million. And then the EBITDA ratio will be close to that of Bouygues Telecom, especially because La Poste Mobile is only dedicated to mobile lines. Whereas at Bouygues Telecom, we have both fixed and mobile. And the ratio is better for mobile than for fixed. In any case, we'll have more than EUR 300 million in terms of contribution.

It will only be mobile, the mobile business. Regarding recapitalization on the financial instruments, EUR 30 million this year and EUR 50 million later, I mean, these are bonds to be issued. And this is already planned in our debt plan. This has been already scheduled, as it were, in our 2020, as early as 2021. The next question comes from Nawar Cristini from Morgan Stanley. You have the floor. Thank you. I have a couple of questions about the possible acquisition of La Poste Telecom. I have a couple of questions. So this responds to sort of an industrial logic. But the price of acquisition is much higher than what you paid for EIT, even though the EBITDA is lower. So what's the rationale behind this, this high price? And then the costs of integration.

You said that this is, well, this network is well-dimensioned to take in all customers from La Poste Mobile. But there would still be OPEX and CAPEX integration costs. But just what would these costs be? Well, you haven't disclosed any amounts so far. But could you at least give us some color or at least some comparison between these amounts and what you did in the previous operation? Benoît? On the acquisition price compared to EIT, you have to consider, well, the integration costs for Bouygues Telecom. For it, when we took in these customers, and in it, there was no IT, the integration costs were upwards of EUR 300 million, both in terms of CAPEX for the network to give the proper dimension to the network. These were customers that consume more.

And then we had to rebuild the IT system at Bouygues Telecom because this was not part of the EIT scope. So EUR 300 million-EUR 350 million in integration costs, plus the acquisition cost, which was EUR 850 million. For La Poste Mobile, they have very little, by way of integration costs, anywhere between EUR 50 million and EUR 100 million. And that will be some IT, some costs in SIM cards, and some marketing costs that will occur in 2025 and 2026. So if you add, say, EUR 75 million on top of, say, the EUR 950 million, we get to EUR 1.05-EUR 1.25 billion. Whereas the other ones were close to EUR 1.2 billion. So in terms of EBITDA amounts, we end up with similar numbers. And of course, La Poste Mobile, over time, should generate EBITDA. But there's very little CAPEX required.

The only CAPEX in sight will be for set top boxes because there will be some fixed-line business on top of the mobile business. But it's mostly integration costs. We're looking at EUR 3 million-EUR 350 million in EBIT and only EUR 50 million-EUR 100 million for La Poste Telecom. Thank you, Benoît, for this explanation. The next question comes from Molly Whitcomb from Citi. You have the floor. Hello. I have a couple of questions. One on Equans. Can we try and get a better view of Q4? COPA margin is good. But if you look at EBITDA margin, it's about 3%. That's not as good as last year. Is there a reason for this? Are there one-offs that you have to take into account? And the second question is about La Poste Mobile again. If I understand right, EBITDA last year was about EUR 7 million.

In 2021, no, it was EUR 55 million last year in 2021. So it must have been EUR 57 million last year. How do you arrive at the EBITDA number you announced for 2028? Can you repeat the second question about La Poste Mobile? Because we didn't hear the numbers. Can you repeat this? Yes. The EBITDA of La Poste Mobile, looking at the reports, the present EBITDA stands at EUR 7 million. And are there specific synergies between Bouygues Telecom and La Poste Mobile that we cannot see there? How do you propose to achieve the EBITDA announced for 2028? Do you mean are there synergies greater than what we said? Well, you have the EBITDA of La Poste Mobile. You add to that the gain from the wholesale contract, which is now with SFR. And after lease, you get an EBITDA of EUR 140 million. But I got it oh, okay.

I got it right. So EUR 140 million is SFR's wholesale contract plus the present contract. And so that will enable Jérôme to on Equans, we have a simple question. We had one-off items in 2022. These were one-off deals that did not reoccur. Thank you. Thank you too. So the number was EUR 100 million for EBITDA. Now, Alicia, for the questions in English.

Operator

Yeah. Thank you. We'll take the first question from Nick Lyall from Société Générale. Your line is open now.

Nick Lyall
Analyst, Société Générale

Morning, everybody. Can I just ask two on telcos, please? You had a very strong fourth quarter despite the accounting changes for telco. The guidance of EUR 2 billion EBITDA or above EUR 2 billion, though, doesn't seem particularly strong. I realize it's above EUR 2 billion. So could you just it seems like a large round number.

Could you just tell us a bit more about the growth you expect in EBITDA? Because it seems top line is still very strong, particularly in fixed. So do you expect decent growth, at least on telcos and EBITDA? And just going back to SDAIF as well for the option on that. But I'm not sure if you answered why you didn't decide to or why you decided not to exercise it just now. What would be the current debt and equity you would have to pay on the 15th of March, do you think, on your assessment if you did buy it back in, please? Could you give us a bit of information? Thank you.

Speaker 5

[Foreign Language] Maybe Benoît can take we have two windows in 2025 and 2026 for SDAIF.

So we're waiting until then to see whether we'll exercise that call option. But on EBITDA, Benoît, well, the guidance we have for EBITDA compared to the past, there's one item you have to keep in mind. Between 2020 and 2023, there were EUR 500 million in EBITDA growth. And that's we have between 2023 and 2026. Between 2021 and 2023, we are ahead of schedule that we announced. So we are closer to the objective than what we announced. And between 2021 and 2023, the acquisition of EIT boosted EBITDA. There were synergies. And that brought in EUR 200 million in EBITDA growth over that period. So that is one reason. If you give a guidance on 2024, it might look more modest to you. But this is because there were these extra EUR 200 million in 2021, 2023 because of EIT. And then the market is growing as well, adjusting, rather.

The mobile market is adjusting. Whereas fixed is growing. So this is why, all in all, we are announcing EBITDA, which is about EUR 2 billion in 2024. Can we also give a detail about SDAIF? SDAIF. Well, if we were to take it on board, it's only a few percentage. So the integration no, no. That wasn't the question. We're talking about the effects on the overall indicators on debt and EBITDA. Now, SDAIF in 2023 has EUR 90 million in EBITDA and EUR 600 million in debt, EUR 700 million in debt. But we expect that to come down because SDAIF has reached the peak of its CAPEX in the years 2023, 2024. So should we decide to consolidate SDAIF, this will give you an order of magnitude of what we will be consolidating, both in terms of debt and EBITDA.

Nick Lyall
Analyst, Société Générale

That's great. Thanks very much.

Operator

We'll take our next question from Jakob Bluestone from BNP Paribas. Your line is open now.

Jakob Bluestone
Analyst, BNP Paribas

Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got three questions, please. Firstly, on Equans, could you maybe just give us a little bit more of a sense of what sort of organic growth to expect? I think you grew revenues pro forma at Equans by over EUR 1 billion in 2023. Do you think you could do something similar? Or should we expect the organic growth, so ex-disposals, to be somewhat similar? Secondly and I appreciate you've commented on this. But I just wanted to clarify, when you talk about a stable situation at Colas, is that a reference to revenue or margin or both? So if you can maybe just help clarify the comments you've made on your expectations for Colas.

And then finally, on the telecom side of the business, could you just give us your latest thoughts in terms of the state of competition? We've seen some perhaps slightly more aggressive moves on the low end from Iliad, but also some new offering coming on the fixed-line side. So just interested in hearing, how do you see the market from here? Are things getting better or worse at a competitive level? Thank you.

Speaker 5

[Foreign Language] Okay. Let's begin with Jérôme. Then we'll call on Pierre. Just clarifying a point. On [Foreign Language]. You can do it in French if you like. We expect similar organic growth next year. As we've explained, we will dispose of a certain number of asset-based activities. We expect our sales to be relatively stable.

Now, what we said was that it's the revenue that will be stable, not the operating profit. The guidance we gave you, we are trying to eke out close to 4% COPA margin, as we said. This year it's between it'll be between 2.9%-4%, just to give you some idea of where we expect to end up. Pierre, I'm not sure I fully understood the question. But I think we were asked about the guidance that we don't give about Colas. Is that what was that? What was it about? Well, we feel that in 2024, the sales will be up a few percentage points given the information we have and the very large number of countries where they're somewhere up, somewhere down. And it's always difficult to anticipate. But we expect relative stability. But in absolute terms, we expect revenue growth. Thank you, Pierre.

All that remains is Emmanuel's contribution. Benoît, so your turn. Your question concerning the telecoms market. Now, I'm coming back to this. In terms of volume, that's in terms of the number of clients in the French mobile market. The postpaid market is growing, but growth is slowing. It's 700,000 new contract clients since 2023 after 1.3 million the previous year. The number of trade-offs, people are holding onto their smartphones for longer, their handsets, because handsets are expensive, even though the telephone operators are helping with these. But there's no real technological breakthrough. So people are holding onto their handsets for longer. This has an impact on market dynamics in terms of volume and value. In the fixed market, the fixed market is still dynamic. We're talking about fiber and boxes.

Growth will be slower than previous years, but will still be buoyant thanks to the switchover to fiber, which is something that customers really want, to switch over to this new technology, which is a whole new experience, be it in the retail market or in B2B. So in both these markets, competition is still strong between the four main players, the four players. But our greatest asset and what we've been developing in 2023 is that we have been investing in the quality of customer experience, quality of our in mobile add-and-fix. This has helped us attract new clients. Even though the market growth is slowing, we have seen an increase in the number of clients because we have good quality at very attractive prices. But the competition is still there, strong competition.

There are promotional periods, promotional drives at certain periods of the year in certain market segments by certain players. But what we do is we provide quality that's good enough to attract new clients with a network that's very competitive, of very good quality, and very good quality.

Jakob Bluestone
Analyst, BNP Paribas

Thank you.

Operator

We'll take the next question from Javier Borrachero from Kepler Cheuvreux. Your line is open.

Javier Borrachero
Analyst, Kepler Cheuvreux

Yeah. Thank you. Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Second, on telcos, based on the 2026 EBITDA guidance you provided in the past, the EUR 2.6 billion, I'm just wondering how confident you are in achieving that figure in light of the 2024 preliminary or guidance you've given. And also, I mean, obviously, the 2026 guidance, obviously, I assume it was not including, obviously, the La Poste Mobile acquisition.

But to what extent that guidance, that target, is dependent on exercising the option on SDAIF? Thank you.

Speaker 5

[Foreign Language] . Thank you, Benoît. He's a bit of a star here today. Concerning the 2026 guidance, if La Poste Mobile is integrated, that will induce costs in 2026. So if we go ahead with this acquisition of La Poste Mobile, we'll come back to the markets a few months afterwards to update our guidance to allow for the integration of La Poste Mobile. If we do not acquire La Poste Mobile, we will confirm our guidance for 2026. We're working on that roadmap, particularly on the EUR 600 million in free cash flow before working capital requirements in 2026, even though the environment will be different. We told the markets in 2021 what our guidance would be for 2026. The mobile market was different at the time.

Now, the mobile market has less volume and less value than it did three years ago. We didn't have the inflation that we have experienced since then. However, we have good news in the fixed segment. So the economic context and competitive environment have had a bearing on our roadmap. But we can confirm our guidance for 2026. Thank you, Benoît. So confirmation of our guidance. There you are. Okay. Well, if there are no other questions, all that remains for me to do is to thank you all and wish you a very pleasant day. Thank you.

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