Earnings Call: Q3 2020

Oct 23, 2020

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by and welcome to the Florentia Q3 Results twenty twenty Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speaker presentation, there will be a question and answer session from the web and phone lines. I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Michel Fabre. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for attending this conference call. I am with Olivier Durant, our Deputy CFO, Marc Maillet and Sophie Jujens, our Investor Relations team. I will present our sales figure for the first quarter. The press release was posted this morning at 07:30 Paris time on our website and the slideshow that I am now going to comment is also available on our website. Starting with Page two, our sales in the quarter were significantly better than previously expected at €3,000,000,000 supported by improved market conditions. This showed a strong quarter after quarter sequential improvement as well as a month after month sequential improvement as well, with the month of September up 1.2% year on year. Q3 sales were strong in China, up 15.4% on an organic basis. By activity, our sales outperformed the market in seating and key mobility, which represents combined 65% of group sales, while interiors and Clarion Electronics, which represents combined 35%, underperforms the market. I will go back on that. Thanks to this improved environment, but also thanks to the positive effects of all our resilience measures, we can upgrade our H2 twenty twenty initial guidance that was given on July 27. I will detail this new guidance at the end of the presentation. Let's start with the review of our Q3 sales on page four. As I have mentioned and as illustrated on this slide, our sales in the quarter benefited from a strong sequential improvement with Q3 organic sales down 7% after 19.7% in Q1 and minus 50% in Q2. Drivers were stock rebuilding mainly in North America and quick recovery of car purchasing by individuals who preferred to take their cars in order to go to work. We can also see on this slide that our Q3 sales improved month after month and that the month of September, as I mentioned, posted a 1.2% organic growth with respect to last year. Slide five shows Q3 sales figures at group level. On a reported basis, our Q3 sales were down 7.4%. Currencies had a negative impact of €135,000,000 mainly US Dollars and Chinese Yuan versus Euro. Scope effect was positive at €117,000,000 or plus 2.8% with the strong contribution of SAS one hundred and sixty million euros since February 1, the negative contribution of EUR43 million from Clarion. If you remember, in Q3 twenty nineteen, sales took into account four months, July to September plus June catch up, as we had to upgrade Clarion closing process to match the Faurecia's agenda. On an organic basis, sales were down 7%, representing an underperformance of two ten basis points compared to worldwide automotive production that dropped year on year by 4.9% according to IHS. This included an unfavorable geographic mix, which represented a negative impact of around 40 basis points, and lower tooling sales, which represented an additional negative impact of around 30 basis points. As already mentioned, the stabilization in the quarter reflected the underperformance of interiors and clioelectronics, while seating and T Mobility outperformed the market. Let's now start with a review of Q3 sales activity on page six, with seating and interiors. Firstly, seating with sales amounted to €1,500,000,000 down 4.5% on a reported basis, including a negative currency effect of €34,000,000 or minus 2.1%. Seating organic sales were down 2.3%, outperforming the market by two sixty basis points. This outperformance was driven by all three of Faurecia's major regions. As from Q3 twenty twenty, seating sales are no longer impacted by the end of production, mainly Daimler that had a negative impact in the previous quarters. Conversely, significant new programs will start as from Q2 twenty twenty one, main one is the Jeep Grand Wagoneer and will boost seating outperformance as from next year. Secondly, Interiors, whose sales amounted to EUR1.170 billion, down 2.4% on a reported basis. It included a negative currency effect of EUR 49,000,000 and the positive contribution from SAS. Interiors organic sales were down 11.6%, representing an underperformance of six seventy basis points. Sales in the quarter were strongly penalized by lower TULIX sales, down 45% due to delayed program in Europe, North America and China. Excluding this impact, product sales were down 8.5%, underperforming the market by three sixty basis points. This underperformance of product sales was only attributable to Europe, impacted by lower content, mainly for Daimler, new model, and comparably unfavorable product mix with PSA. Now on Page seven, Key Mobility and Clarion Electronics. Key Mobility sales amounted to €1,023,000,000 down 8.2% on a reported basis. It included a negative currency effect of €46,000,000 or minus 4.1%. On an organic basis, Key Mobility sales were down 4.1, outperforming the market by 80 basis points. This outperformance was driven by double digit sales growth in China. Commercial vehicle sales evolution was contrasted, also in line with market regional sales evolution for this segment, with double digit growth in China and double digit drop both in Europe and North America. Electronics sales amounted to €181,000,000 down 40% on a reported basis, including a negative currency effect of €7,000,000 and the negative scope mentioned before for €43,000,000 Clarion Electronics organic sales were down 23%, significantly underperforming the market. This underperformance was mostly attributable to the unfavorable customer mix of Clarion, highly impacted by the sales decline of its major customer Nissan. This effect will continue to impact sales in Q4, but gradually disappear in 2021, we have 12 major start ups of production between the last quarter and the first half twenty twenty one. Faurecia Clarion due to that is on track to overachieve its order intake target and clearly to, I would say, resume growth in 2021 and when I say growth, it will be a significant growth. Let's now move to the review of Q3 sales by region on Page eight, with Europe and North America. Sales in Europe amounted to €1,728,000,000 down 7.9% on a reported basis. It included a negative currency effect of €21,000,000 and the positive scope for €88,000,000 Organic sales in Europe were down 11.5%, underperforming the market by three eighty basis points. This underperformance is mainly due to interiors as a double digit drop in sales for key mobility commercial vehicle. And of course, the main driver for that is the tooling drop. We say in general, many startup of production were delayed and delayed to the last quarter, but mainly to the first half twenty twenty one with a direct consequence on our level of tooling and prototype sales. Sales in North America amounted to €1,100,000,000 down 3.3% on a reported basis. The negative currency effect amounted to €37,000,000 and was fully compensated by the positive scope of €37,000,000 Organic sales in North America were down 3.3%, underperforming the market by three eighty basis points. This underperformance was attributable to the double digit drop in sales for key mobility commercial vehicles and to a lower extent to lower sales to Nissan and Cyano Electronics. Now on page nine, Asia and South America. Sales in Asia amounted to nine zero three million euros down 4.2% on a reported basis. It included a negative currency effect of €34,000,000 and a negative scope effect of €9,000,000 Organic sales in Asia were up 0.4%, strongly outperforming the market by four fifty basis points. This strong outperformance was of course driven by sales in China, with organic sales were up 15.4%, strongly outperforming the market by eight fifty basis points. This mainly reflected stronger performance of seating and key mobility in the country, with sales to international OEMs, new customers and commercial vehicles. Sales in South America amounted to €106,000,000 down 42.9% on a reported basis. It included a negative currency effect of €36,000,000 due of course to the Brazilian Real versus Euro and a limited scope of €2,000,000 Organic sales in South America were down 24.7%, underperforming the market by four thirty basis points, it mainly reflected sales drop in Brazil and the gradual exit from Argentina we closed the seeding plant this summer in Argentina. Now let's move on page 11 for the H2 guidance. Considering improved market condition as it is treated by the better than expected recovery of the market, we now expect worldwide automotive production to drop in the mid single digit in H2. As a reminder, our previous market assumption for H2, as communicated on July 27, was a market down around 15%. Based on this updated market assumption, and thanks to the confirmed positive effects of measures deployed to further increase resilience, we can revise upwards our financial targets for H2. Our H2 sales should reach at least €8,000,000,000 versus around EUR7.6 billion expected previously. Our H2 operating margin should reach at least 5.5% of sales versus around 4.5% previously. And for the cash flow, at least EUR700 million versus around EUR600 million. This confirms fully the sensitivity I gave you, if you remember, of 1% additional sales, more or less 70,000,000 plus of sales, minimum €15,000,000 of operating margin and the same of cash. So we are totally in line on track with all our plans, even better. Let me conclude this presentation with slide 12. Our sales in the quarter were significantly better than previously expected. Consequently, and also thanks to the positive effect of our sales measure, we have upgraded our H2 guidance. We are totally on track to achieve the sales, the profitability and the cash provision for 2022. And I remind you that the main driver will be our EUR 200,000,000 cost cutting plan for the fixed cost between 2019 and 2022. Finally, a word on the expected spin off of Forexia. According to the amendments announced on September 14 by PSA and FCA, the stake of 46 of Forexia currently held by PSA is to be distributed to all Stellantis shareholders after completion of the measure. As PSA and FCA expect measure completion to take place by the end of Q1 and considering the minimum time period required for the approval process, the spin off of ForeSia could happen, should happen in Q2 twenty twenty one at the latest. It will contribute to significantly increase and globalize the company's free float and of course as a liquidity. Thank you for your attention. The floor is now yours. Nadia, can you now go to the Q and A session please? Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we now begin the question and answer session. And your first question comes from the line of Sacha Gomel from Jefferies. Please ask your question. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. The first one would actually be on guidance upgrade. I understand that you upgrade the earnings with the drop through. I was wondering if you can also comment on the cash flow upgrade. Would have thought that when your top line develops a lot better than you expected, that you also have more of a working capital inflow. But it seems you only upgraded the free cash flow guidance in line with the earnings upgrade. So I was wondering if you can comment on that. That would be my first question. Thank you, Sacha, and good morning. So it was inside, I was the sensitivity. As you know, we have a negative cash flow consumption of working capital, EUR $680,000,000, if I'm not mistaken, in the first half. We were committed to recover that in the second half and probably the last small last part in H1. This was due to the difference between the customer terms and the superior terms, twenty five days. If you remember, our level of inventories was high due to the lockdown because it was difficult to variabilize the inventories mainly in March and we were doing only a part of it. So we have the advantage is that in the second half, we are making significant improvement of those inventories. So everything is going on the right way. And what I can tell you is that September, a very big part has been already recovered. So it is why we are totally confident that the working capital will represent a very significant cash flow in cash in in second half. And if I can give you, it will be probably more than 70% of the consumption. And when I say 70%, it's a very cautious evaluation. So it is why all the indicators are going on the right way. Understood. Thank you. The second question would actually be on your outperformance in Q4. Do you think it will be on a similar level? And in that context, maybe you can also comment on the the interior weakness. Is that something that will continue for the next couple of quarters because the the kind of model launches from VW and Daimler remain and the mix at PSA remains as well? It's a tricky question because what we see is that we have contrasted evolution. And you know that some carmakers have consumed inventories at a quicker pace than others. Some, like I can mention that MPSA have restarted a little later and have a very active month of September and will probably reduce some inventories in the last quarter. So all of this means that we will have different drivers of that. So mix will change. What I will say is that we will be very probably at least due to the tooling much closer to the trend of the market. But one thing we were thinking, to be honest, that the market trend of the market was minus 6%. We have seen the figure of ASS. We have still to understand customer per customer why we have this difference of assumption, to be clear. So and I think it's the same for you, because we are little surprised by the minus four, so we have to understand everything. Clearly, the trend is positive. Interiors is lagging. It will continue to lag due to some smaller contents, mainly the S Class because we have stopped the instrument panel due to the pricing. So we are not in the front panel. We are in the center console and top panel, but not in the front panel. So we have this small impact. But anyway, we are very confident to resume outperformance in, I will say, 2021. Understood. And that brings me actually to my last question. Do you have any thoughts on '21 at this point? With all you have seen what what is the the mood. You you you are asking me too too much. We we are making our budget with, I would say, a very reasonable figure on, I would say, worldwide volume with €76,000,000 because if I'm not mistaken, we want our people to work on cost, to work to continue to be very disciplined. And I would like, sorry, I have such a out to thank everybody because everybody in this group is on track with the revised budget and with our 2022 plan, which is I think very important and we'll continue to deliver. Appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you. And your next question comes from the line from Giulio Pescatore from Exane. Please ask your question. Hello. Thank you for taking my question. The first one would be on the if you can elaborate a bit more on the drivers of the underperformance in interiors. I mean, you mentioned like the problems with S Class. But is there anything more structural going on there? Or it's something that is very likely to reverse next year? And then maybe on the efficiencies and the cost measures you have taken, can you maybe explain to us how much of those efficiencies are structural and how much will reverse next year? And the last question on CapEx, can you update us on your plan for CapEx? And how much of the CapEx that you have taken off the guidance this year would be covered over the next few years? Thank you, Julius. You're welcome because I know that you are just taking back the exam. Yes, thank you. Thank you for your questions. Under performance, Clarion, I have confirmed in the speech that with all the startup of production, we'll have a significant growth next year. And our budget is clearly feeding and what we have said before is that we will be close to EUR 1,000,000,000 of sales for Clarion next year. So you see the big move that will happen, Big of course, big part is due to the, I would say, the order intake that we have relaunched, I would say in in '19. Second thing, sitting, we are very positive. We are even surprised, to be honest, by the outperformance of the second half, which is higher than expected. We have very big, I will say, start of production. Main one is by far the Jeep Grand Wagoneer, $250,000,000 per on a yearly basis, starting probably between April and May. So this will clearly accelerate the sitting of performance. T Mobility, if I exclude the commercial vehicles, on the light vehicles, we are outperforming and we have a good figure in Europe. I know that there are always some fear in Europe, but thanks to our strong market share on the hybrid, we have a good figure everywhere on light vehicles. So commercial vehicles, and you know that, will probably restart. It is an early, I will say, KPI, as you know, to say that group world will go back to growth. But of course, there's always this problem of shutdown. But I think that commercial vehicles will be probably a very good driver for the growth in 2021 for T Mobility. The last is interiors. The interiors will go back to more normal level of tooling, but we have this customer mix issue and customer mix and some content issues. So we are pleased to underperform the market in the last quarter and slightly, as we said, probably lower than the first quarter. And 2b, it is our budget to be in line, only in line with the market for 2021. It is currently our view, but of course, this will be fed by, I would say, more precise assumption for the market, I would say, after month. Now going to cost efficiency. We have to be cautious because, of course, we are reducing the fixed cost and we explained that by much more than our, I would say, recurrent point of view. So we have always, and which will be the same when we will discuss the figures, to be very cautious on what is recurrent and what is only the normal measures, including some, I would say, downtime, for instance, which are to to face this crisis even if today we have no more downtime or even no more no more downtime. So what we want to check-in the budget is that the resilient fixed cost reduction will be at least EUR 150,000,000 in 2021 respect to 2019. So it is what we have said, what we have actions, what we have restructuring. And so what we will clearly check and deliver in order to secure the EUR 200,000,000 on which we are committed. For CapEx, we reduced a lot this year, it's a fact. That means that you can take a figure of something like around EUR $450,000,000. Apart is due to the fact that we have frozen even considered some CapEx of capacity. We don't need capacity today, we have to be clear. We have as well the postponement of programs, this has a temporary, I will say, consequence. So lower CapEx H2, but of course, this will come back in H1 twenty twenty one. So my guidance for H1 twenty twenty for H1. For 2021, we will probably to come back to a level of EUR550 million, even slightly more, we have to decide according to our different priorities and projects, but it is a kind of level. So it will, sorry, to go back to a more normal level. And in our assumption for 2022 onwards, we are back to EUR 600,000,000, even slightly more. But this is as well according to the big order intake that we are taking, that of course, we will have to feed with the right CapEx. Okay, very clear. Thank you. Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Thomas Dessen from Kepler. Please ask your question. Thank you very much. I'll have two questions, please. The first one is could you come back on the programs postponed, notably in seating and give us the sequence that you're expecting now? Because if I remember correctly, roughly twelve months ago, you were expecting seating to start picking up in Q4 this year. I know you're talking about Q2. But can you remind us the main programs and when you anticipate them to start? That would be the first question. The second is a bit tough, and I apologize for that. You are talking about 8% margin in 2022, '5 point '5 percent plus in H2. And if I understand correctly, your budget for 2021 is broadly 2x H2 2020 in terms of volumes. So how do we bridge 5.5% plus to 8% with only relatively minimum increase in volume special. Buzzo, Thomas, as as usual, you are quite changing, which is which is normal. Thank you. Thank you for that. I don't have all the data, but the main postponement was the gibbon vagonier. So gibbon vagonier initially should have started November. It has been postponed to February. And now it is more May. I don't know. I think these figures are public. Clearly, the main reason was lockdown, but not only. So it was the first one. You know that we have the C class Demler frame platform, same thing, Demler postpone some I will send you models on that. And it was a significant number of months. We have a Nissan Frontier composite, same thing, it was postponed. So it is why sometimes if you go back to what I had declared in the past, I was a little probably too positive due to this startup of production of some new businesses. But whatever, I think the figure of sitting is not bad and showing as well that the content that we have, probably we are add by the mix, but the content is, I will say, improving. Now going to your questions about the five the five point five five point five, etcetera. But first, you know that. We have, of course, a margin of turnover of the 5.5%. I mean, let's say minimum 5.5. I think it's obvious. So don't ask me what is the value that we have in our forecast, but of course, it's better than that. The second thing, we have as a cost cutting program. And third, we have, I will say, the expected outperformance, which will help a lot. So we have built all of this, and it is like this that we will go to the '22. If you remember, we have a market as well assumption, 82 12/2022 is based on 82,000,000 vehicles with respect to 76 for next year. So it is a significant figure of 8%. And you know that 8% will help a lot. But and if you allow me, one contributor must be will be Clarion. So I can today again confirm that it was presented moreover to the board yesterday, the Clarion business plan. So we confirm that Clarion is targeting at least 3% of operating margin next year and around 6% in 2022. Italian will be added as you know by the new, I will say production. Very clear. Thank you, Michel. Thank you, Thomas. Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Horst Schneider from Bank of America. Please ask your question. Hey, Michel. Good morning. It's Horst here from Bank of America. Just quickly as an add on to Tomas' question. So just want to understand then because you say sales at least €8,000,000,000 in H2 and at least operating margin of 5% of sales and also the same for cash flow, at least €700,000,000 Any upside is more linked then to better sales? Or it is it can be also linked to extra cost cutting and some other items driving the profits? That's number one. On number two, I just want to understand because you do a fairly high level of sales in China. Do you see any signs of market weakness maybe? Or are there good reasons to assume that the strength of the Chinese market really continue, not just in the fourth quarter, then also in Q1? And I know we have got a very low comp base in H1 in China, but just want to understand what the run rate development is there? Thank you. Thank you, Arthur. Good morning. Yeah. The sensitivity I gave is working very well. So you can if you if you want, you can take 30 12 the drop through of 23%, which is the minimum. According to volumes as a €70,000,000.15 twice, operating margin and cash is working very well. So it and like this, I think I I am giving you too much for good media reforecast on h two. So but No. That's fine. But I cannot be more precise, if I may. But you you see why we have today this passion of maneuver. We are today more cautious than on the last quarter. We think that, well, that that are the presidential elections. There is this famous Chinese New Year where we don't know what could be the impact that we have to that it will be two weeks late. But what I received from China is not negative. Mhmm. It's the only thing I can I can tell you? So we have today strong strong EDI. We have, I will say, figures, which are showing. Now not the outperformance of the first quarter, but we can probably, we are more cautious. But not the magnitude then because it was very high, but anyway, a net performance. So today, we are very positive on China. After that, I cannot say what could happen or what could be the, I will say, some consequences because we think that the trading the trade war between China and US will continue, whatever the result of the US elections because the deficit is too much. So it could disturb. But anyway, the the China the Chinese mood is positive. And what will be very important, what we are expecting, it will be the disclosure of the new five year plan. You know that it will be normally late November, early December. And we expect that there will be a big, I will say, part of hydrogen, which is important because as you know, the group is more and more exposed to hydrogen. That is a long term story. But we are convinced that it would be a very successful story. Alright. Thanks for that. Maybe I can squeeze in the last one. You, you don't you you don't expect any change in payment behavior of the OEMs. Right? So it's a normal normal pattern, basically, that we will have towards the end of the year. Right? Hello. If you say measure, no measure. Of course, we have we have pressure. We see pressure. I was called two months ago to say that to to get this business, we need to accept a new payment term. I said no, and we got the business. So we are not flexible on that. But we see some customers trying to put pressure on that. So it will be a permanent pressure as well. You know you know that, as we are doing with our suppliers. Alright. Thank you. No major no major impact for the moment. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Jose Azumendi from JPMorgan. Please ask your question. Good morning, Michel. It's Jose, JPMorgan. Three quick items, please. The first one, operating leverage 2021, how should we think about it versus 2020, please, directionally? Second question, please, global cap production, fourth quarter. Can you give us, on a global basis, how do you think about the fourth quarter in terms of production? And then the third item, is working capital, second half twenty twenty, where do you stand currently in terms of the reversal in working capital? Thank you. Thank you, Jose, and good morning. Operating leverage, we are making our budget, but our ambition, what we would like to commit to the market is above 20% and probably a figure closer to what we are doing currently. Clearly, the part will be fed by some, what we called, hot water, That means products starting at the right margin. That means, above 7% close to 8%. And second, of course, our fixed cost reduction. Production, we are more cautious that IHS is below minus 4%. We think probably it will be more of a minus 6%. We see. That is what we think as the last quarter. So a quarter close to the quarter of last year. And so clearly, in the measures and in the control we are making with our teams is to, of course, have the right fall through with respect to budget, that you have the right fall through, of course, with respect to the figures of last year. Working capital request of working capital, we are as I said, at least, I will say, percent of EUR $680,000,000, so something like EUR 500,000,000 Very clear. Thank you very much, Michel. Thank you very much. Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Stefan Traxman from Societe Generale. Please ask your question. Good morning, Michel. It's Steven Rudden from Societe Generale. Question really about pricing pressure on the like. And you mentioned that Mercedes business you lost on the S Class, which seems to be a pattern here because obviously there was a seating issue as well on the GLE, GLS last year, which didn't end too well, I guess, for Mercedes. But would you say this is just part of the normal kind of pattern of wins and losses? Or do you think there is more pressure coming from the OEMs now on pricing that you are just putting your foot down and being resistant to? Thank you, Stefan. Good morning. You know that with customers, have some up and downs. There was some tension with them in 02/1334 with some difficulties, operational, repricing, whatever. So the time until 2016 was not positive to get business. And in this context, we have lost some businesses. And it was as well the context of the RFQ for the s class because the s class was delayed. As you know, probably, we said several times. We have taken with Daimler some significant businesses in the last three years. And the main one is the famous France of the C Class and Vianot. So we will have a nice growth with Daimler in the next two to three years. It's what I can mention. So as usual, decisions taken today, for instance, will have mainly an impact in two years and more in three years, four years' time. It's a life. So we will have with Demleur and BMW some significant growth in the future as we have today with Tesla. Tesla, are taking a lot of businesses. And Tesla will have a significant growth between today until 2022. So it's a normal life. We have what is good, a vision of what is happening plus or minus. Of course, after that, it depends of the timing and the success of the different products. So the story with Daimler will be positive. Right. And on the subject of Tesla as well, clearly, they are talking about significant capacity expansions in China, which I presume you're supplying there as well. But production levels are running well below the sort of capacitized levels. How do you deal with that? Firstly, they have a successful startup of production. And they they were ramping up at a quick pace. They are now, because they have started with some kits coming from US. It was our case model. So we were localizing. It is how they would they can reduce cost and I think they have made some initiative to reduce price as well. So localizing, there are some bottlenecks. So it is why currently, yeah, there is a small, I would say, production sorry, drop of production. The condition is key for them, but I am convinced that they will restart very soon as they have big ramp up. So they have strong ambition, and we believe that they will achieve the strong ambitions of production. And, course, it will be linked with the success of the models, but we are confident that they will achieve it as well. So for us, Tesla is also very good way. Thank you very much. Thank you. And the next question comes from the line of Thomas Dessen from Kepler. Please ask your question. Thank you. I have just a follow-up, Michel, if I may. You've mentioned the positive impact of hybrids on clean mobility. Have you made a calculation on the initial impact of electrification on clean mobility. Are you able to say, thanks to hybrids and the content we have on Tesla and other EVs, we see actually even a positive effect from the initial stage of electrification electrification to 2022 or to 2025? It's too early because what we see is that hybrid FOX MINI to PSA has taken half of the electrified part of the business, which is very positive for us. It was a little and it will be probably a little boosted in the last quarter by the fact that carmakers will have to fulfill their commitment or they will be penalized. So we'll see how the mix could be a little sorry to use that, distorted by that. So currently, what I can say is that when I take the Clean Mobility Europe for light vehicles, we are evolving like the market, which is, I think, good. And they think the same evolution 2021. Okay. Very clear. Thank you very much. Thank you. And at the moment, we have no more any questions. Please continue. Okay. But if you if we have no more questions, firstly, thank you again for your attendance. And we are we will participate to some conference, etcetera. So we'll have the opportunity to update, especially to upgrade all our figures. What I can tell you, is that, of course, the next big, I will say, meeting will be the yearly, for disclosure in February. Thank you and have a good day. Bye bye. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.