Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to First Quarter 2021 from Forvia. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the speaker presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Michel Favre, p lease go ahead, sir.
Thank you, g ood morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am Michel Favre, the Group CFO. Thank you for attending the conference call. I am with Olivier Durand and Marc Maillet, our outstanding Deputy CFO and Head of Investor Relations. I will present our sales figures for the first quarter. The press release was posted this morning at 7:00 A.M., Paris time, on our website. The slides show that now I am going to comment is also available on our website. Starting with slide two. I would like first to highlight the restatements that we have made to our 2020 accounts. As announced on February 18th, we have signed a memorandum of understanding for the sale of our Acoustics and Soft Trim division, AST, to the Adler Pelzer Group. All conditions are met to qualify the activity as discontinued in compliance with IFRS 5.
Consequently, group sales in 2022, 2021, sorry, exclude the AST figures, and previous periods are restated and presented accordingly. I remind you that AST is posting circa EUR 250 million of sales with a low margin. As regard Q1 2020 sales, were restated to EUR 3,678 million versus EUR 3,739 million as released in April 2020. The table at the end of this slide presents 2020 restated quarterly sales figures. Only Interiors and Europe are impacted by this restatement. Let's now on slide three start with the main highlights of our sales in Q1. Organic growth was strong at 12.2%, with double-digit organic growth for our three major business groups and close to 6% for Clarion Electronics, whose sales were impacted by the shortage of electronic components. We're estimating this impact on Clarion at around 5% of sales or EUR 9 million. Organic growth was particularly strong in China with 88.4%.
We must remember that last year China was the country most impacted by the crisis in Q1, with sales down more than 40% versus Q1 2019. It is worth mentioning that sales of EUR 670 million in Q1 2021 even exceeded the EUR 604 million posted in Q1 2019 before the COVID. In every region, we posted stronger performance, + 590 basis points in Europe, + 540 basis points in North America, and largely over 1,000 basis points in Asia and South America. At group level, our organic growth of 12.2% is slightly below the worldwide automotive production growth of 12.8%, according to the latest IHS Marcit data. You perfectly know, this is due to the strong unfavorable geographic mix impact in the quarter, estimated at circa -900 basis points.
This is partly due to the fact that Asia, the only region where automotive production grew during the quarter, represented only 17% of Forvia sales in Q1 2020, while it represented 44% of worldwide automotive production. The geographic mix effect will turn around to very positive in Q1, and positive in H1, as Forvia is more exposed to Europe and North America, the two regions that will recover strongly versus the troughs of Q2 2020. Combined with the ramp-up of the new seating programs, a part of which will start in Q2, we see an acceleration of outperformance in Q2, and we are more than on track to reach the targeted full-year outperformance of at least 600 basis points. Apart from the sales figures, I would like to outline two events that happened in Q1.
In February, fully in line with our strong conviction that hydrogen is the best solution for zero emissions, we acquired a major stake in CLD, which is one of China's largest high-pressure tank manufacturers. CLD operates two plants, employs 200 people, and has a capacity of 30,000 tanks per year. In March, we successfully issued EUR 400 million of senior green notes due 2029 at 2.38%. The first issue of green bonds reflects Forvia's strong commitment to sustainable mobility, and in particular, to investment in hydrogen mobility. It is the best price that Forvia ever gets on a bond issue, taking the maturity into account. Slide four shows the usual bridge of sales between Q1 2020 and Q1 2021.
On the extreme left, we have just reminded the sales figure for Q1 2019 before the COVID-19 crisis. It shows that our main markets have not yet fully recovered from the crisis, and I will give you only one figure. Volumes in Q1 2021 are -11.6% versus 2019. We are still in a very, very low market. We also reminded the Q1 2020 sales figure, as presented last year, that included sales for AST. Our Q1 2020 sales, restated for IFRS 5, comparable to Q1 2021, amounted to EUR 3,678 million. Currency effect was negative and quite significant, with EUR 183 million or -5% of sales, with the U.S. dollar and the Brazilian real representing around 2/3 of this figure. Scope effect was a positive contribution of EUR 60 million, due to one month of consolidation of SAS, the month of January, as SAS was consolidated last year from February 1st.
As previously indicated, organic growth this quarter amounted to EUR 450 million, or 12.2% of sales. As a result, sales in Q1 2021 amounted to EUR 4,005 million, up 8.9% year-on-year on a reported basis. Let's start on slide five, the review by business group. Seating, which represented 39% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of EUR 1,544 million. Sales grew in the double digits on an organic basis at +13.6%. Organic growth was very strong in China, both with international and Chinese OEMs, while sales in other regions recorded organic growth at or above 5%. As already commented, significant SOPs will happen in Q2 and ramp up during the rest of the year, boosting Seating outperformance in the coming quarters. Interiors, which represented 30% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of EUR 1,225 million. Sales grew at double digits on an organic basis at +11.7%.
Reported sales included a positive scope effect of EUR 60 million or +5.4% of sales due to the additional months of consolidation of SAS already commented. This positive scope effect did not fully offset the negative currency effect of EUR 67 million or -6% of sales. Organic growth was driven by China and Europe, as well as SAS, that grew by +13% on an organic basis. Let's continue on slide six with Clean Mobility and Clarion Electronics. Clean Mobility, which represented 26% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of €1,038 million. Sales grew in the double digits on an organic basis at +12.3%. Organic growth was mostly driven by China, up 84%, and commercial vehicles up 22%. Clarion Electronics, which represented 5% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of EUR 199 million. Sales grew by 5.7% on an organic basis. Organic growth was mainly driven by China, where sales tripled year-on-year.
The impact on Q1 sales of the shortage of electronic components was estimated at at least EUR 9 million. On slide seven, there is a review by region. Europe, which represented 51% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of EUR 1.970 million. Reported sales included a positive scope impact of EUR 35 million, or +1.9% of sales that slightly exceeded a negative currency effect of EUR 28 million, or -1.5% of sales. Sales grew by 5% on an organic basis, outperforming by 590 basis points regional automotive production that dropped by 0.9%. Organic growth was mainly driven by Seating and Interiors. North America, which represented 23% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of EUR 952 million. Reported sales included a strong negative currency effect of EUR 88 million, or -8.6% of sales that largely offsets a positive scope effect of EUR 70 million, or +1.6% of sales in the organic growth of EUR 9 million, or +0.9% of sales.
This strong negative currency effect resulted in a drop of 6.5% in sales on a reported basis. Sales grew by 0.9% on organic basis, outperforming by 540 basis points regional automotive production. Organic growth was mainly driven by Seating. Let's continue on slide eight with Asia and South America. Asia, which represented 23% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of EUR 928 million. Sales in the region grew by 48.7% on an organic basis, outperforming regional automotive production by 1,730 basis points. All business group posted strong double-digit growth, mainly driven by growth in China. In China, sales grew by 88.4% on an organic basis, outperforming regional automotive production by 480 basis points. All business group posted very strong double-digit growth in the country.
It is worth repeating that our sales, both in Asia and China, significantly exceeded pre-COVID sales of Q1 2019. South America, which represented 3% of group sales in Q1, posted sales of EUR 113 million. Reported sales included a strong negative currency effect of EUR 41 million, or -32% of sales. This strong negative currency effect largely offset a limited positive scope of EUR 1 million. As a result, reported sales were down 11.5% year-on-year. The 20.1% organic growth outperformed regional automotive production by 1,610 basis points. Organic growth in South America was mainly driven by Interiors and Clean Mobility. Now that we have reviewed our sales performance in Q1, let me on slide nine, give a quick look back at the spin-off process that happened in March and is now behind us.
The distribution of Forvia shares by Stellantis is completed, and Forvia has now a free float of circa 85%. Most of the remaining 15% relates to the stake held by the four historical shareholders of PSA and FCA, which means Exor 5.5%, Peugeot 1810 with 3.1%, Bpifrance with 2.4%, Dongfeng with 2.2%. As you know, all four shareholders have undertaken a lock-up agreement for a period of six months following the completion of the distribution by Stellantis, but of course, may decide to remain shareholders for a long period. Notably, Peugeot indicated its strong commitment to Forvia, and our shareholders at the next AGM will be asked to appoint the company Peugeot 1810 as a board member with Robert Peugeot as permanent representative. You know that Robert Peugeot has been involved for a long time with Forvia.
We are proud to consider that the spin-off process, which was a big event for Forvia and all its shareholders, was a success. Also, thanks to intense communication efforts from the company, including the capital market desk to update on the group perspective, as well as interactive investor meetings campaign, and thanks to support from bank brokers, we have been able to create enough appetite from investors to absorb the significant movement in shares. At the close of Friday, our share price was up 15.9% year-to-date, outperforming the SBF 120 index by 12.6% over the same period. I would like to thank all the team of Forvia for this good performance. I would like to thank as well our advisors and brokers, Lazard, Berenberg, J.P. Morgan, Société Générale. For this, I will say, very good performance.
Now, our share liquidity has significantly increased, with average daily volumes traded since the record date that have more than doubled versus volumes traded before the record date. Since March 22, our share is included in the CAC Next 20 index. Our shareholder base is enlarged and more diversified. Lastly, let me remind you that our upcoming non-dilutive employee shareholding plan, named Faur'ESO, with share delivery on July 28th, will also give opportunity to employees to become shareholders of the company, with the target that total shareholding of our employees will represent, after this operation, circa 2.6% of the capital of Forvia. Let me now conclude on slide 10 with the confirmation of all our financial targets for the year. The latest IHS forecast that was released last week estimates worldwide automotive production in 2021 at 79.7 million vehicles, up 13%.
This is downward revision of around 500,000 vehicles versus the previous forecast of March. It's a consequence of the shortage of electronic components that impacts all our customers. As you know, since February, our guidance for 2021 was based on a cautious assumption of 76.6 million vehicles to be produced in the world in 2021, an increase of 8% versus 2020. This prudence is giving us more than comfort towards our guidance's. Even taking into consideration the shortage of electronics and the subsequent downward revision of IHS forecast, all our assumptions remain valid. I can, with great confidence, fully confirm our targets for the full year. Sales of at least EUR 16.5 billion, with a stronger performance of at least 600 basis points. Operating margin of circa 7%, close to pre-COVID levels.
Net cash flow of circa EUR 500 million, and a net debt/EBITDA ratio of less than 1.5x . Clearly, all of these figures will be fully, I will say, achieved. Thank you very much for your attention, t he floor is now yours. Operator, can we start the Q&A session?
Ladies and gentlemen, we now begin the question-and-answer session. We have our first question from the line of Tom Narayan from RBC. Please go ahead, y our line is open.
Hi, yes, Tom Narayan, RBC Capital Markets. Thanks for taking the questions.
Yes, good morning, Tom.
Hi, the first one, I'm sure everybody has this question. Could you just give us a little more detail on your decision to maintain the 8% production guidance? I understand you're being prudent. Maybe folks would appreciate some of the components there. Maybe, what would it have been, let's say there was no semiconductor production impact, for example. Secondly, OEMs of late have been making a lot of comments on EV component insourcing. Daimler last week at their EQS event said they were going to be doing their own power electronics and e-motors and battery management systems. It would appear that your Seating and Interiors business could be okay there. What about Clean Mobility? Third, the long-term guidance issued at your CMD suggested some pretty significant market share gains in North America in Seating and Interiors.
Which you would think North America is a pretty mature market. I understand you're under-penetrating there, but curious if you've learned anything new in Q1 that would suggest confidence that you could achieve those targets, t hanks.
Thank you, Tom. Of course, we start with semiconductors, because it's a big disturbance for the market. Difficult to understand what are the arbitration inside, I will say, the suppliers. Arbitration inside the customers, because in some cases, we have seen some customers favoring one region, respect to others. Favoring some models respect to others. Difficult to understand everything. The fact is that automotive business consume more or less 10% of the semiconductors of this world. I insist on the 10%, which is a big figure and a low figure. We can shout, we can say what we want, we are only at 10%. Second thing, we see some erratic communication. I remember one car maker saying things are now completely fixed, and the week after, he was making some downtime. We are more today still at hand to mouth, very low level of inventories.
Of course, it will continue like this probably some months. There will be probably potentially a peak this month and next month. Progressively, things will probably be better. We know that in this business, Q3 is important, for the consumer goods, to prepare Christmas. Probably like last year, things will rise, right? We can use this expression, there will be some new CapEx, so we can be a little more optimistic, for the last quarter. We, as Faurecia, what we can say is that we remain, if you see, at the same rhythm, in our guidance, as the first quarter, 19 million vehicles. Probably is very cautious per quarter, huh? It's very cautious, but it's a fact. Everything, I will say upwards will be an upside. Remind you, the sensitivity I gave, different times.
1 million vehicles production more in this world, means like with the same mix, means EUR 200 million of sales and close to EUR 50 million of EBIT. Clearly, the upside is significant. After that, we say month after month, we will see how things will improve. On the big announcement of electrical vehicles. Now, as usual, big announcement means five years lead time. I am sorry to say that. We are speaking of 2025, 2026, et cetera. What they will decide on is sourcing battery data, sorry, is not affecting our Clean Mobility business. What is key, is how fast ICE will be or could be substituted by electrical vehicles. How fast hydrogen will develop. Because we are convinced, and we are more and more convinced that hydrogen is the only clean solution. We are convinced that things will accelerate.
We are totally, for the moment, inside our guidance on the ICE, the number of ICE, et cetera, for the period at least until 2025. We think that, it will be probably more positive than we were thinking for Faurecia. After that, we have to see, like you, how markets will evolve, what will be the evolution of the infrastructure. I doubt that electric infrastructure will fit the number of volumes that are expected as BEVs. Now, market share gain. Sorry to be blunt, we are not speaking of the future. We have gained the market share. It's a fact. We are starting the business. What we are starting as business, I would say with Jeep, with Tesla, et cetera, has been awarded in the last two to three years. Our growth in North America is secured.
Of course, it's a daily, I will say, fight to continue to grow. I remind you that this year we have a EUR 26 billion order intake target. The good news that we give you is that we are totally inside in our roadmap at the end of March. I will add that for everything, we are at least in line with our roadmap, I will say, at end of March. The first quarter was a very positive quarter for Forvia.
Okay, thank you, I'll turn it over.
Thank you for your question. We have another question from the line of Giulio Pescatore from BNP Paribas Exane. Please go ahead, y our line is open.
[Non-English content], Giulio.
[ Non-English content ] Good morning, everyone. My first question is on the 2021 guidance. Can you confirm that the assumption behind the guidance in terms of effects and scope are still the one that you made at the time of the full year earnings release? Maybe if you could help us a bit with the assumption behind the free cash flow guidance as well. What are you assuming for working capital? That would be very helpful. Maybe one last one, more high level. Are you seeing anything in the way that the new Euro 7 regulation is shaping up that makes you more cautious or maybe even more optimistic about the outlook for the Clean Mobility segment in the midterm?
Thank you, Giulio. For the Forex, we kept $120 per euro and RMB 7.80 per euro, which are the main assumption. Anyway, the sensitivity is very low if we have more or less. It is not a big problem. Today, when you see the figures, theoretically, we have an upside. Free cash flow guidance, we were not repeating the story of the restructuring cash out. It is a fact. We will be close to EUR 180 million for this year cash out, fully taken into account. On the working capital, thanks to the one-day reduction in inventories, we should be slightly positive. I repeat, I will say around EUR 500 million cash flow, knowing that we are better end of March. We are somewhere significantly better, which means that when we are disciplined and when we control the CapEx, I will say things are visible.
Regulations, it's too early to speak about regulations. There is an important step for 2025, with the EC. We see some polemics and we see some discussions. Sorry to say that we are not involved, moreover, so difficult to speak about that. It's too early.
Okay, t hank you.
Thank you for your question. We have another question from the line of Thomas Besson from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Hello, Thomas.
[Non-English content], Michel. three questions as well, please. First, can you say a few words about the business you've acquired in China? You said quite a big production capacity, in terms of storage system. Can you give us maybe some revenues, some orders, some ideas of what the contribution is going to be, in 2022 or 2025 or 2030? Is that the metric you want to follow as for the targets you had given for hydrogen? The first one. The second, I'd like you to come back to the timeline of the new contracts in Seating and confirm that they are incremental in terms of profitability. Last, I'd like to come back to the unavoidable topic of various supply shortages.
Can you just help us understand the visibility you have in Q2, on production levels and what kind of impact on earnings you saw in Q1 or you anticipate in Q2? Understand it within the guidance, but explain us how you can react to this very limited visibility. Thank you.
Thank you, Thomas. See this a little early, because we are still in the process of acquisition. For the moment, figures are low. I will say on sales, I think something like EUR 30 million, but this is the only figure I can give you now. Sorry to say that. We have to go back to you with the closing of the acquisition.
Understood.
Seating profitability, I will say that the new contracts will at least give the same profitability as today. Growth, as you have understood, Thomas, will be quite nice. Seating will definitely post a margin over 7%. Production level, we have a paradox. Of course, production level is low. I repeat, markets are very low when we compare to 2019. We are still in the very low range. When things will restart, it will be quite impressive. I will say as well that inventories of our customers are very low. We are estimating that today, something like 1 million cars, sorry to repeat this figure, circa 1 million cars inventory are missing in the States. They are at 40 days when they were usually at 45 days or more. 55 days or more.
That means that clearly when semiconductors will be available, things will restart at a very dynamic pace. The paradox is that we are accelerating our outperformance. Thanks to the outperformance, we have accepted some plants. We don't have today any big issue as activity, which is a good thing. This is helping, and will continue to help, of course, our profitability. As you know, we are reactive. In regions, because there are some regions, Germany for instance, North of France, et cetera, where production is low. Of course, we have adjusted, we are adjusting our means. In other regions, we have to manage today growth and to find the right people to manage this growth. We try to be as quick and agile as possible.
Great. Thank you very much, Michel.
Thank you for your question. We have another question from the line of Sascha Gommel from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Michel.
Good morning.
Morning. I have also a few questions, please. The first one would be actually on the flowback versus share buyback. Did you utilize the full volume of your buyback volume around the flowback, or is there something left on the table for the rest of the year?
No, it's finished.
It is all finished.
The share repurchase to avoid the dilution is done. It's been, I think, concluded, if I'm not mistaken, between Thursday or Friday. It was done. It has not matched the flowback. The flowback happened probably before, when I see the transactions. On top of that, it was not a big amount. I think everything is done. I have no issue on that.
Perfect. My second question would be a bit on working capital, because obviously we ended the year 2020 at a very high sales level, and so very efficient working capital level. Now with all this volatility in the market and potentially some inefficiencies on the inventory side, how should we think about your working capital at the end of the first half? Do you see some burden from this current situation, or are you able to manage that very efficiently right now?
As I said, I think end of February, we have already achieved some inventory reduction, mainly in the last two months of the year. We saw, again, a cash impact afterwards. We are today targeting, or if you prefer, forecasting the same level of working capital between end of June 2021 and end of December 2020.
Okay, very clear. My last question would be a follow-up on the Seating market share you were talking about earlier, and I understand you already secured that market share. Since one of your main competitors in the U.S. has fixed the operating problems and now also the balance sheet, do you think they'll become more aggressive again to try to regain some of the market share they lost? You think you can defend that very easily?
It's a very good question. I would say that it's not only a question of the first quarter. They were already back last year. Clearly, they want to defend their market share, which is normal. We think that on metal, we have an advantage. We think that we are more, I would say, we have some patents. We have a technical advantage, and we will continue to gain market share, which is what we see and what we will achieve. I insist, as the order book was very good in Seating last year, and this year it is starting very well. On complete seat, we are more an outsider. We continue to gain some market share, I would say, with some customers. When we take a market share with Tesla, for instance, it's a new one.
We are gaining, I would say, progressively, but without making too much, I would say, damage to our big competitors. It is advantage for the market share between 9%-10% on the complete seat, while the market share on metal is much more. We are probably on the big platform at 20%.
That's great. Thanks for all the color. Thanks, Michel.
Thank you.
Thank you for your question. We have another question from the line of Stephen Reitman from Société Générale. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, Michel.
Good morning.
Good morning. The question, we've seen so far indications that the automakers have been able to favor their more higher contribution margin vehicles. They're not taking so much of a hit in the first quarter from a semiconductor shortage. How are you adapting to this as well in terms of, as they reduce certain programs and try to concentrate on other ones? Are you able also to try to match that, do you believe? Thank you.
I don't want to speak for my customers, but I think what you have said and noted is completely true. We think that they are favoring some models, and/or some regions. When we say favoring, that means they keep the same volumes as before. We have not seen some ups and downs around that. Clearly it was not a difficulty to fit the production requirement for these models that they have favored. The problem is more when they stop a production overnight. It happened. We have to be clear, it happened. Our customers have some difficulties. It happened. We are a just-in-time company. We try to be agile, so we adapt as quickly as possible. Sorry to say that, contractually, if they stop overnight, they have to compensate. It is what is happening. It is famous, what you say, which we speak claims story.
We ask for compensation. Compensation usually is to postpone some productivities, but we cannot accept that they stop overnight, and we need two days, three days, to, I will say, organize the downtime of our people. This is a fact, which is a consequence. I don't know if it was a question, but it's a consequence of the fact that visibility of our customers is very limited.
It might be early days at the moment, but there has been talk that the automakers are looking now to get more involved in the sourcing of key components like semiconductors as well, to ensure that their tier one suppliers and whatever have adequate supplies. Can you see anything from a Clarion perspective on that?
No, for the moment, not. They want to be more involved with a chain which is complex, because you have at least two types of suppliers. I am not an expert, I know that some processes which are very CapEx-intensive are very much concentrated. After that, you have some, I would say, suppliers making the final assembly and welding point. It's a complex chain. I don't know how they could manage that, they are prepared, sorry to say that, to manage that. For the moment, we don't see any consequences. We are more working, mainly for Clarion with Nissan, to manage the shortage and to avoid any disruption for our car makers.
Thank you.
Thank you for your question. We have another question from the line of José Asumendi from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Good morning, José.
Good morning. Thank you very much. Just a few items, please. The first one, if you come back a little bit more to Clarion and any news in terms of product development on the display side or RFQs or business wins by region that you have seen sort of developing in the past quarter. Second question around the CapEx guidance, maybe for the first half, but where do you see CapEx for the first half? The third one, I know it's difficult to quantify the situation on the semiconductor supply chain issues, but can you comment a little bit around versus your initial assumptions for the second quarter of the full year? How far have you reduced your internal budgeting production forecast for the year versus where you were maybe in December? Thank you.
Okay. Display. We don't comment, José, the order intake per quarter. The only thing I have given is that we are totally in the road map towards the 2026, and we continue to be awarded on some display. That is what I can say today. CapEx guidance this year will be maximum EUR 600 million of CapEx. That's probably below. We say half of it in the first half, mainly because we have been restrictive, so I don't think we will be over EUR 300 million. Q2, the paradox in Q2 is that, sorry to say that, José, you will be disappointed, but we are totally in line with our budget.
Very good.
Our budget was made on 19 million cars, we are totally in line with our budget. I have the figure with me. I am sorry. We can give you because it's your budget. We are EUR 18 million above our sales on the respective budget with the last forecast of our customers.
Thank you. Can I follow up on the Chinese momentum sequentially on a quarterly basis? Are you seeing a big slowdown as we go into Q2, Q3, Q4? Are you seeing much more of a stable pattern versus the first quarter? What's your sense overall of your Chinese business? Do you think it's slowing down, or do you think it's stabilizing, or do you think it's actually accelerating versus Q1?
Q1 was very good. Q2 is below. We see every month some small upside in the program, but Q2 is slightly below. Difficult to comment if it is a more cautious forecast, or if there was a problem of inventories not a problem, a question of inventory to boost in the first quarter. But you're right, Q2 is slightly below. It's too early to speak of Q3, Q4. Today, we have no concern about our expectations for China in the full year. We are above. After that, we need to see what will be still the upside respect to that.
Great. Thank you. Thanks very much.
Thank you for your question. We have another question from the line of Martino De Ambroggi from Equita. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, everybody.
Good morning.
The first question is follow up on the Seating, because you are starting new programs. Could you quantify the impact, starting from second quarter this year and on next year in terms of sales coming from these new programs, justifying the strong outperformance? The second is on the Asian operating profit. I suppose this year will exceed the double-digit threshold. Could you elaborate on the potential target in terms of profitability with a very rough range for this year? The third question is on the hydrogen business. You guided for EUR 50 million, including tanks and stacks. So far, Stellantis made the announcement, but how many clients you need to achieve these targets you are guiding for 2022?
Okay. Marc, do you have the figure for the Seating?
No, I will check afterwards. I will check.
Marc, yes? No, Marc is not connected, sorry. For Seating, sorry, I will give you the figures. You stay for the business starting in Q2 or for the total new businesses?
No, starting from second quarter for the rest of the year, how much is the business coming from these new programs?
We are roughly speaking of a little more than EUR 300 million.
EUR 300 million, okay.
EUR 300 million.
Sorry, I could not be on the line. Yes, exactly, correct, Michel. We are at EUR 350 million or slightly above.
Thank you, Marc.
Excuse me.
On Asia, we will definitely post double-digit figures. Sorry, I will not give more flavor on that. As you have understood, we had a very good first quarter in China. The forecast is not bad at all. We are clearly more than in line with our roadmap. On 2022, things are done. Clearly, the main business in 2022 is PSA, the commercial vehicles, for both tanks and stack. The Hyundai business will start, I will say, late 2022, if I am not mistaken. This is as well stack and tanks. After that, we have the Renault business, which is today tanks. We are still developing the stack. We see how things will evolve with Renault according to their project, because as you know, they have made a JV with Plug Power. They are, for the short term, medium term, the three key customers.
You have, as you know, at least two years. What we will be awarded this year, and you know that some important RFQs, request for quotations, are today on the table. This will mainly impact 2024 onwards.
Okay. You already covered this target.
Okay. Thank you.
If you don't mind, thank you to give me this opportunity. 2021, 2022 is made. We know where we have been awarded. We know what we have to do. After that, of course, volumes mix could play. We know the content of our sales. 2023, there will be a small impact from the order intake of the first half of 2021, et cetera, on the holding point of view. I remind you my guidance for 2025, I said that 2/3 are totally secured. One-third will be secured with the order intake of 2021, 2022, mainly small impact of first half 2023. Thank you for this question.
Thank you.
Thank you for your question. There are no further questions. I will hand back over to Michel Favre.
Okay. Thank you to all of you. As you can see, we made a very good first quarter. We are totally inside our roadmap. We continue, I will say, to deliver, to be focused and agile, because the market is not easy to deal with these semiconductors. I think these topics will continue probably to the end of the Q3, September. What I think is that things will restart smoothly in the H2, probably we have an upside in H2. It is if I want to give a very positive message, it is my conviction. Thank you to all of you, and see you soon.
That concludes the conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.