Good morning, this is the conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the FORVIA Third Quarter 2023 Sales Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions by pressing star and one at any time. If anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Olivier Durand, Group Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you. Good morning everyone and welcome to the presentation of the FORVIA results of Q3 2023. The key message that we would like to convey this morning is, first of all, on the activity, strong organic growth in a market that continue to grow. W e are posting EUR 6.5 billion of revenues, 10.7% increase on an organic basis, which is a 7% outperformance on the market, growing by 3.7% on the auto production volume. On the commercial side also, we continue to have strong order intake, EUR 22 billion in the first nine months, and therefore our book-to-bill continued to be above one.
It includes improvements on the upfront aspect, which means that it's either helping the improvement of the net cash flow on a going forward basis. The third message is related to disposals. First of all, as you have seen, we have completed the EUR 1 billion disposal program that we committed in Q2 of last year. We did it through five transactions, and we did it with the amount of EUR 1 billion in cash proceeds, and we did it in 15 months. In the context of this activity, we identified further possibilities to go beyond this EUR 1 billion, and considering the evolution of interest rates and the level that remains high and will probably remain high for a while, we consider necessary to go further.
We have decided to launch a new EUR 1 billion asset disposal program to accelerate the deleveraging and to reduce our debt and our financial expenses. This means that we will go beyond the Power25 objective of 1.5x net debt EBITDA by the end of 2025. The first transaction has been already signed. As we announced at the beginning of this month, BHTC is sold to AUO, and this is a company that is a joint venture between HELLA and MAHLE. This will represent a sale on enterprise value for 100% of EUR 600 million, and cash proceeds for our part of EUR 200 million. Last but not least, we, of course, confirm our guidance for 2023. Apart from those elements, we would like to highlight two key elements.
We continue on the road to sustainability and we are getting more material and more real in this domain. We have just opened our site for hydrogen production in France. This will be the first mass production plant of storage tanks, with a capacity of 100,000 units per year by 2030. We are becoming, therefore, the first automotive supplier in the world to have production footprint across the major regions. You will see in Q4 also that we are moving also on other aspects of the sustainability with a formal opening of our materials activity in Lyon, that will be November, and with the opening of the plant of Symbio, which is about stacks in hydrogen, in which is the joint venture we have now with Michelin and Stellantis.
The road for sustainability and supporting the transition of this industry, we are contributing, and we are getting extremely material in this respect. The second aspect is the diversification in China. As you know, we are quite strong across the board, and in particular with BYD. We are expanding, in fact, our collaboration with others, and we would like to highlight, in particular, the strategic cooperation we have signed with Chery on smart cockpit development. On the order intake, so EUR 22 billion, and we would like, through this slide, to present, in fact, where we are getting orders. Of course, China, of course, electronics, but I would like to highlight that now we are getting to 50% of our order intake in electric vehicles, whether it's fuel cells or BEVs.
We continue to expand on premium, of course, and we had a significant conquest on commercial vehicles for seating of EUR 1.7 billion in inside. Clearly, we are on a different dimension, in the good direction, and in terms of the contents and the financial metrics of those orders, the selectivity that we have defined is paying off. We have a margin that is above our Power25, 2025 objective, and we have upfronts that are, upfront being the cash investment you have to do at the beginning of the project before actual production, down 20% year-over-year in those nine months. The quality of the order intake is there. Now, if I focus on the sales activity of Q3 for FORVIA.
As mentioned, strong organic growth, 10.7%, EUR 6.5 billion of revenues, and a reported basis of 2.5%, taking into account the depreciation of the U.S. dollar and the Rand in the period. As you may remember, U.S. dollar was particularly strong in Q3 of last year, close to parity at some point, so therefore, this evolution. We have solid outperformance, and you will see this outperformance is across business group and across regions. I would like to highlight also that the evolution of the car market remains positive in Q3, with the latest assessment and assessment upward of S&P for the worldwide production.
If I go in small details by business group first, so you see that Seating and Interiors have, in fact, an outperformance quite similar at seven, and respectively at 760 basis points and 730 basis points, which is reflecting the breadth of the activity there. One element, of course, to highlight is that this quarter represent the effective end of our just-in-time operations for the seating program, Jeep Grand Wagoneer, in agreement with Stellantis. You, of course, remember that it was a cause of severe losses in the past periods, so this case is closed. Regarding Clean Mobility and Electronics, Clean Mobility outperformance, but lower than other ones, which is reflecting, of course, the developments of the electrification of the car industry.
The fact that we continue to grow and grow above the market is quite positive. One more element to mention, you see that, in fact, the currency effect in this activity is higher than other ones. This is the manifest of, in fact, the most distribution of Clean Mobility across the regions. This activity is the most balanced in terms of revenues across geographies, which is actually a good thing, because electrification is happening at different pace in the different regions, so it allow to mitigate some of these elements. Electronics, we have a growth of 10.6% on an organic basis, 690 basis points around the average inside FORVIA.
Lighting, similar to other business group you have seen before, 10.8 organic growth, 710 outperformance, so you see the 700 outperformance being the main driver in all the activities. Lifecycle, reflecting, in fact, the increased contribution from the truck and the bus segments. Also, the pass-through of inflation leading to a 16.1% increase on an organic basis of this activity, which is of course, quite contributive on the profitability front and has a good cash cycle. If I move from a regional point of view, you see the overall picture at the group level. If we look at the different markets, I will start with Asia.
Asia growing increasingly, 1.7% on the volume of the market, and for us 12.1% organic growth, which means that this is the highest performance we have, s imilarly to previous quarters, which is reflecting the strengths and the distributed activity we have particularly in China, which is not only about BYD but about it is also about the other OEMs. On the other regions you see that we have enough performance 490 basic points in Europe and 160 basic points in Americas, which is affecting also a bit more of activity we have in this section in particular North America and of course, to have the minimum activity in Argentina .
Moving on to the key disturbance we have in this period, and the key risk is about the UAW strike. Some key figures about this. What is our exposure to this strike? First of all, we are not directly involved. We have closed our negotiation with UAW, so we have no outstanding negotiation for this year on the labor conditions and compensations. We will have to renew next year, but this is next year. Of course, the strike is impacting us. So far, it has been fairly moderate. You see that our exposure is around EUR 300 million per month. If all activity in North America will stop with Ford, GM, and Stellantis. However, so far, this has been quite lower.
Only EUR 6 million sales impact in September and EUR 1 million in margin. In October, around EUR 55 million-EUR 60 million at the current strike level, including the latest announcement of last week of UAW. We are putting in place all the actions necessary to mitigate the impact on us, about flexibilization of the cost, temporary layoffs, reduction of the purchase, and the discretionary spending. We expect to limit the drop through to 20% on those revenues, which is so far, as I mentioned, around EUR 60 million in sales. It's a key watch item on which we are focused to ensure minimum impact on our performance. Now, if I move to the second topic of this morning, is about deleveraging. We are accelerating and amplifying, in fact, our actions in this domain.
Number one, we fully closed and completed our first EUR 1 billion asset disposal program. We did it in 15 months, five different operation, all with industrial partners, and we had a limited impact on our financials. Lower in revenues than what we expected initially. In terms of cash proceeds, we completed the EUR 1 billion target. In the context of this activity, we have identified, of course, larger possibilities. Since the beginning, the portfolio was larger than the EUR 1 billion, obviously, but we have identified other possibilities.
Considering the fact that interest rates remains at a high level and probably will remain so for a while, we consider necessary to go beyond our initial objective of 1.5x net debt EBITDA by the end of 2025, as reported in the Power25 plan. We decided to launch an additional EUR 1 billion cash proceed disposal program. This will be with different operations. There is not a single operation that will represent this EUR 1 billion, is different formats and different operation, in many aspects, similar to the first one. The first operation has been already signed, which is the disposal of BHTC to AUO, a Taiwanese company. BHTC is a joint venture between HELLA and MAHLE. This has been signed on the second of October.
The enterprise value for 100% is EUR 600 million, and in terms of cash proceeds for us and for MAHLE, it will be around EUR 200 million, considering the current level of debt. We expect the cash proceeds to arrive in fact in the first half of at the beginning of 2024, taking into account the antitrust proceedings. We, of course, confirm our guidance for 2023. We are taking into account the new risk and large risk that represent the UAW strike, which is having a potential impact larger than what was imagined before.
We confirm all the metrics, with revenue between EUR 26.5 billion and EUR 27.5 billion for the year, operating margin between 5.2% and 6.2%, a net cash flow above 1.5x, and the net debt to EBITDA leverage to be between 2.0x-2.2x, taking into account the cash flow performance and the disposals that I mentioned before of the first EUR 1 billion disposal program. Regarding midterm objective, we confirmed the Power25 objective. This EUR 1 billion additional disposal that I just mentioned will of course improve the metric on the net debt to EBITDA beyond this ratio of 1.5x.
The impact in terms of revenues is expected to be limited, given the combination of type of operation we have in mind. The impact on operating margin, in fact, should, in terms of ratio, should be neutral. In terms of cash flow, the reduction of financial expenses from this additional disposal, with the reduction of the debt itself, will, in fact, help the ratio of 4%. In summary, a Q3 that is solid, order intake of a good quality, and we are taking action, considering on the activity side, the UAW strike, and on the financial side, the persistence of high interest rates to not only secure our numbers, but to go beyond, in particular on our debt.
So that, in fact, the level of financial expenses is going down more rapidly than what we imagined before, and seek and ensure progress on the financial structure of this company. On this note, I'm ready for questions.
We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. The first question is from Christoph Laskawi of Deutsche Bank.
Hey, good morning, and thank you for taking my questions. The first one will be on the outperformance and the division outperformance, and how we should think about that into Q4 and 2024 as well. Could you just give a comment on should that largely be unchanged at the rate we've seen it? Which of the divisions actually has a lot of SOPs, probably driving that even up further, or are there any impacts we should be aware of? Second question, please, on cash. I know this is a revenue call, but with the volatility in production, likely there's still, I mean, an impact on working capital as well. Could you comment on cash during Q3, and also if you've seen any changes in payment terms from the OEM so far? Thank you.
Thank you. Good morning. On outperformance, in the first half, we had an outperformance of 680 basis points. This quarter, we are at 700. We expect a bit of moderation of this in Q4. This is related, in fact, to the end of the Highland Park program, which is reducing the activity by around one points. We have also, in fact, the end of the activity on commercial vehicle since we sold it to Cummins, effective end of September.
The last one, we expect, in fact, an impact of the UAW on the production side, which can play. A bit lower, in fact, in Q4. The other point, which is more for reported revenues, we do not expect the level of negative impacts from currencies that we have seen in Q3, probably half of it. You can see that directly with the level of activity we have in China and U.S. On cash, we have to put volatility in perspective. We have been through a level of volatility and unannounced events that has been dramatic in the past.
Of course, some time ago, the COVID, but even the shortages, and the stop-and-go. We have much less of this nowadays. The only major stop-and-go aspect is the UAW strike, which has been until, in fact, 10 days ago, limited. We are prepared for it. We have the measures defined, and we activate them according to the events. I would say that this is not leading to an issue on working capital. The only caveat I would make is on inventories. We will have reduction of inventories during the year, but it's more about protection of electronics supplies that is moderating this. The environment overall is simpler to work with than it has been clearly before.
Now, related to payments from customers, I do not notice anything particular to date. But we are making-
Thanks a lot.
To collect our overdue, and I would say to, for completeness, the fight on inflation remains a tense topic for, but it's not a deterioration. It's just the continuation of what we have seen for the past 18 months.
Thank you.
The next question is from Sanjay Bhagwani of Citi.
Hello, thank you very much for taking my question also. I have got 2 questions. Maybe the first one on the financing cost. Could you please provide some color of how should we think of, let's say, the financing cost for this year and also probably for the next year? I understand there are a few moving variables here. First thing is interest rates are staying high, but at the same time, I think your gross debt is also likely to go down. Maybe like blending all this, and again, keeping in mind that 1/3 of your debt is variable cost debt. How should the financing cost be for this year and for the next year? That is my first question. My second question is on the announced additional disposal program.
Could you please provide some color on this, the nature of the disposals, and also how should we think of the timing of this? Thank you very much.
Thank you. On the first question on the financial cost, from a cash perspective, it will represent, as I mentioned before, between EUR 450 million and EUR 500 million for this year, and probably next year will be similar. On the P&L, there is a bit more than this due to, in fact, hyperinflation in Turkey and Argentina, and also mark-to-market on the virtual PPA operation. The cash impact is around this. It will go down. It was, anyway, expected to go down in 2025, given the reduction of gross debt to EUR 6 billion that is part of the Power25 program, and it will be even more with the additional EUR 1 billion disposal that we are announcing this morning.
The costs of the marginal cost of financing on a given operation today for us is between 5% and 7%, depending on the instrument, so you can see what is the impact of this EUR 1 billion in helping. That will be more in 2025 than in 2024. I think in 2024 we will have benefit from the BHTC operation and potentially another one. Which is a good segue to your second question on the disposal program. You can expect the content to have some similarity with the first one, which is several operations, which is simplification of the portfolio, and which is also different timing for different operations.
We expect to realize the vast majority from a cash proceeds perspective by the end of 2025, and so helping, in fact, the net debt to EBITDA leverage. One more thing on this one, there is no single big operation inside this that will put in question the core businesses that we have in the company. It's really about continuation of simplification of the portfolio, management focus on the key elements, and when we can see good operations that can be done, that's in fact ensuring that the level of gross debt is going down and going down faster than what we committed before we do it.
Thank you. That's very helpful.
The next question is from José Asumendi of JPMorgan.
Morning. Good morning, Olivier. A couple of questions, please. I think the first one, are you accelerating the asset disposal plan because you're seeing some kind of large deceleration in the market which could impact the ability for Faurecia to generate cash? Is this, you know, a plan that you're doing because you're confident in your cash generation, but on top of this, you know, you want to do the asset disposals? I just want to understand a little bit better, you know, this incremental asset disposal plan you're putting on top.
Second, can you give us a bit of a guidance for just for 2024, a little bit the moving parts, at least when it comes to the growth you're seeing across different markets, Europe, U.S., China, and outperformance of the growth rates? Three, final one, guidance. Do we think at this stage, with the strong pricing power you have in 2023, it should be that it should be possible to achieve a margin in the upper end of the margin range of 5.2-6.2? Thank you.
Good morning, José. Thank you for the question and, in particular, for the first one. This disposal program is about going further than what we said before. We are doing it for two reasons. Number one, in the 15 months in which we have been working on disposal, we have identified larger possibilities, different type of operations. We have, I would say, also learn on the context how to go through this. That's the first reason, and the manifest of this is that we have an additional operation, which is the BHTC, which is already signed. The second reason is obviously that the level of interest rates, the level of inflation are high.
I think it's difficult to expect that it will get better in the near term. We don't want to count on this. We have the possibility to go further, so we are doing it. It is on addition, compared to the rest, is not a replacement, and is not a defocus from the rest. On the guidance 2024 and elements on the 2024, we will formally provide a guidance about 2024 in February on the back of our full year results. Having said that, in the current situation, I would expect, in fact, the overall auto production to be marginally up next year, potentially on the back of additional growth in China.
You see that, in fact, the production level and production activity in China remains solid, and in fact better than what people expect. The revisions of S&P are usually positive on this aspect. Marginal increase on the volume. We expect continuation of our outperformance. In terms of profitability and cash flow, we are, in fact, expecting to deliver on the improvements on the back of synergies since we are doing only 40% of the synergies by the end of 2023. You have 60% to go between 2024 and 2025.
Improvement of operational performance, we still have difficulties in this front and we are getting progressively better, so you will see more impact in 2024. The end of the JIT operation of Highland Park, which was a drag still on our results in the first nine months. I would say a mix that is quite positive, both on the region and also on the product. On your question about 2023, we provided a guidance in July, 5.2-6.2, that we confirm. Having said that, I think compared to last summer, the strike of the UAW is not helping.
To be on the high side of the range would mean that the strike is, in fact, concluding extremely fast, that China would be, in fact, on a very positive trend. It means quite a bit of elements. Net-net, I see more topics than in July, on the full year, mainly on the strike of UAW that was not the focus in July.
Very clear. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your touch-tone telephone. The next question comes from Thomas Besson of Kepler Cheuvreux.
Thank you. Good morning, it's Thomas, Kepler Cheuvreux. I have a few questions as well, please. Could you update us on compensations and how that has effectively developed in the third quarter versus your expectations, notably on energy and wage costs? Second question, could you confirm the amount of losses implied still in Q3 by your Michigan operation that are now closed? Lastly, could you comment on the level of expected multiples for transactions you're planning until 2025, looking at the fact that a lot of auto suppliers seem to be now lining up for selling assets? Thank you.
Thank you, Thomas. Good morning. On compensation, we ar e are progressing. I would say that we are progressing, roughly speaking, as I expected. It means that we are closing some of the deals, but we are not fully done, fully done yet for the year. We are expecting to be with at least 85% cumulative pass-through by the end of the year, and this is realistic base on what we see. It's clearly an element of volatility and an element of tension with the customers. We see that we have s trong order intake that are at good condition. We are able to do selectivity.
It does not mean that it's easy to have the balance between order intake and inflation recovery, but this is a necessity, this is an obligation for us. We will deliver on this one, but it's tough. On Michigan, the contract in Michigan, the loss in Q3 is marginal, there is nothing significant. The losses that you have seen in H1 is really most of what we will have for Q3 and therefore for the year. On disposal metrics, maybe I should say that, in fact, the disposal will have different forms.
We expect some related to a form of disposal of activities and some of it, in fact, in relation of partnership. To give an overall metric today would be inadequate. What we are counting on is, in fact, to have a limited impact on the consolidated revenue, EUR 500 million-EUR 700 million, EUR 800 million of revenues. No real dilutive effects on the operating margin. On the cash flow, I would say net-net positive and maybe clearly positive, especially taking into account the reduction of financial costs that it will provide on the EUR 1 billion cash proceed.
A bit early, but I would say that we expect, in fact, to have operation of the type of the first wave. Once again, not a single dominant one, but several ones, a bit different, in order to, in fact, do a combined portfolio of operation that is fair and good for the company. Difficult for me at this stage to provide more details without having, in fact, weaker commercial position in those negotiations.
Okay, thank you very much.
The next question comes from Giulio Pescatore of BNP Paribas Exane.
Thanks for taking my question. The first one on the guidance again, I mean, if I remember correctly, one of your assumptions for GLVP were based on very cautious view on China, but China as you said has been picking up quite strongly. So, just wondering what keeps you cautious on the EBITDA. Then the second one on all the book here, I mean, you are saying that all the profitability of the other book is above the target and it's interesting because it's something that we are hearing lot, and not only from you but from the competitors. Can you may be help us understand how this is possible.
I mean, the market clearly doesn't believe that this is possible, but can you maybe help us frame how is it possible that you're obtaining higher implied margins by the recent contracts? Maybe last one, on labor costs. You said you have two negotiations with the UAW coming up. Do you think that any agreement that the Detroit Three will strike this year will form a blueprint for you to start the negotiation next year? Should we expect significant inflation in North America for you? Thank you.
Good morning. Thank you. On the guidance, on the volume of activity in China, we have been cautious and we remain so because the macroeconomics elements on China are, on balance, quite negative. Having said that, similar to what S&P shown, the actual production level and the actual demand is so far better than what was anticipated. S&P has improved its expectation for the year, I think, to close to 1 million cars in China. Now, the vast majority is already in Q3, so it's already in a way, in the numbers we are showing for Q3.
On balance on China, we remain cautious, and what we are doing is to make sure to leverage the diversity that we can have in China. Diversity from a customer front, we are with 19 of the top 20 international of Chinese OEM in the country. We are developing relationship, for instance, with Chery, with this partnership on the smart cockpits this quarter. We are growing with Li Auto, so we are making sure to go beyond, in fact, some others and diversify, including from BYD. We hope that China can be better, but we are making sure to benefit in any case from the diversity and selling probably better the product of HELLA in the country to Chinese OEM.
On the order margin, I understand, understand completely the, the question. Why we expect to have margin, in fact, above the 7% target we have for 2025? Inside this, you have the impact of synergies, and you have the impact of cost reductions that we are putting in place to reduce our breakeven point. This is what is driving the improvement. Having said that, for this to materialize in the result, clearly, we need to have an operational performance that is better than what it has been in the past, and we are taking the measures to make sure that it does. Some example, we stopped the Michigan contract because it was impossible for us to make money out of it. We are selective on some of the demands, including in Electronics.
Third, we are making sure the full implementation of our operational reference book, which is called FORVIA Excellence System, which is making sure that all the good practices to operate the plants are put in place. We have an indicator to follow the full respect of this, and this indicator is growing, and is growing in particular where it was weak, which is North America. This is making a bit more confidence about the realization of what we see in the order book. I understand the comments, and this is, in fact, good to have this because it put in visibility what we have to do in front of us.
On the last question you had, which is related to UAW, so once again, we have closed our labor negotiation for the year, and it was before the strike, so there is no relationship to the strike per se. We have two locations that are concerned for renewal in 2024. Let's see what is the outcome of the negotiation, and clearly that will be part of the discussion. But once again, we are expecting inflation, including labor and some energy to remain a topic next year.
We are taking this into account, including in our productivity, which is digitalization and also location of our activity to make sure that we have the best cost possible, so development of Mexico, for instance.
Thank you. You can just follow up quickly on the order book here. It's mostly driven, it's not better pricing, it's more driven by the fact that you're want to be more efficient. How do we make sure that in the event of, you know, another spike in inflation or another change in the market environment, how do we make sure that the order book is priced correctly, has the right assumptions behind it? I mean, are you changing the way you actually collect these orders?
Since the beginning of the persistent inflation, we have changed the way we are calculating the margin of the orders. We are taking, in fact, the dilution effect of the inflation into account, which was, you know, two, three years ago, probably not the case because it was not expected. Even if we were compensating the inflation at 100%, which as you know, we are targeting, but we have to be honest, this is today not possible. But you have a dilution effect of one point. This is clearly a factor, but this is now taken into account because we cannot count on the inflation to recede.
This is on back in our calculation, which gives a bit more validity, in fact, to those values.
Understood. Thank you very much.
The final question is from Stephen Reitman of Société Générale.
Yes, thank you. Good morning. I know this is not an earnings call, but just maybe to talk a little bit about China. We've just come back from a visit to China, and obviously seeing a lot of these new companies and the Chinese brands that you're supplying as well. Obviously, the pricing on these vehicles is extraordinarily low when we compare them to European levels. I was just wondering what you could say about the overall profitability of this kind of business, how you actually price in these markets, and how it kind of compares to operations in the rest of the world. Thank you.
Thank you. You, you're absolutely right. The many of the cars that are proposed by the Chinese car makers, in particular, the new ones, are at price conditions that are selling price that are quite attractive. There is probably an aspect which is related to the platform themselves on the electric cars, because many of them are starting purely from electric, so there is this aspect. If we take more about our domains, which is more the interior and the lighting, we are making good margin in China, and actually, we are not the only supplier to make good margin in China. It's not because we have a pricing that is higher than other regions, as you can imagine.
I think it's related, in fact, to the rate and pace at which decisions are made for a new car. Even though you have many companies, many car makers in China, you have the diversity, the number of options on a given range of models is probably lower than in Europe. What does it mean? It means that, in fact, the cost and the complexity to deliver the part that we have to the Chinese car makers is much lower than some other more traditional customers. Meaning that we are able to have less cost, to have less cash out while making a margin that is actually a good one.
Net-net, I would expect that some of this is clearly benefiting also the car makers in China. Look at the number of options per car in China. I think it's very different from what we see in Europe, and it's simplifying the work of everyone, actually. Some similarity with Tesla is there.
On the pace of change as well, because obviously one of the key things we notice how quickly the Chinese are changing, what seem to be very modern vehicles, you know, they come out with another version very quickly, much faster than has been the norm among the, you know, traditional legacy car makers. What challenges that pose to you then?
It's a very important factor. It means that in our pricing and in our cash condition, we are taking this into account, so we expect, in fact, a lifetime that is shorter than in other places. The second thing is that we are quite focused on the diversification, meaning to have activity with the different players because you are not sure about which ones will win. Second, you have to consider that there are probably too many players still in China.
We are making sure also that from a financial exposure, we manage the situation so that in case some of them will have difficulties, and we had cases in the past, the impact for us is limited, and we have been quite successful in this matter with, in fact, you know, car makers leaving or stopping activity in China. The challenge is really the number of players, and indeed, the fact that models are moving faster. We have been able to be double-digit margin for quite a while now, and I think we know the characteristic of the market, and we are able to benefit from it.
If anything, the merger with HELLA is allowing, in fact, to extend the reach for us by selling the HELLA products more to the Chinese car makers. That was the case before the acquisition of HELLA by FORVIA.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Dura nd, at this time, there are no more questions registered, sir.
Thank you. Thank you for your attendance this morning. As you can see, our trajectory is clear. We have solid growth. We have outperformance. We are progressing on our metrics, but we are taking into account also the risk that exists. One risk is about the activity in North America with the UAW strike, which is clearly impacting and putting an uncertainty on the level of activity with a potential shift between this quarter and the beginning of next year. We have put in place all the actions to mitigate the full screw of this. The second, interest rates and inflation are here to stay, so we are taking this into account.
We have seen that we are able to go beyond the EUR 1 billion disposal that we initially committed, and that's why we are launching this one, to reduce our debt, reduce our financial expenses beyond what we committed in Power25, to ensure solid financial structure and the flexibility, whatever is the context, for FORVIA, our company. Thank you very much.