Morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to today's Thales 2025 Full Year Results conference call. The presentation will be held by Patrice Caine, Thales Chairman and CEO, and Pascal Bouchiat, Thales CFO. It will be followed by question and answer session, at which time, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. I must advise you that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Louis Igonet, VP Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.
Good morning, everyone. Welcome and thank you for joining us for the presentation of Thales 2025 Full Year results. I'm Louis Igonet. I recently joined Thales as the head of IR. I'm excited to be with you today. With me today are Patrice Caine, Chairman and CEO, and Pascal Bouchiat, CFO. The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session. As usual, this presentation is audio webcasted live on our website at thalesgroup.com, where the slides and press release are also available for download. A replay will be available soon after the end of the event. Please also note that this presentation contains forward-looking statements based upon what management of the company believes are reasonable assumptions. These statements are not guarantees of future performance. With that, I'd like to turn over the call to Patrice Caine.
Good morning, everyone. I'm now on slide number two. Let's start by sharing some highlights for 2025, which was another very strong year for Thales. First, on commercial performance, we delivered another year of strong order intake, equaling the record level reached in 2024, thanks to our strategic positioning in high-growth markets. Our sales growth accelerated, surpassing our guidance. We achieved a robust improvement in profitability compared to 2024, and most notably, our free operating cash flow reached a record high level, reinforcing our financial strength and ability to fund future growth. We achieved or exceeded all our 2025 financial targets. On the strategic front, we also made major progress in positioning Thales for the future, thus delivering on our strategic roadmap.
Typically, we further increase our production capacity to capture rising defense spending and support our customers' rapid ramp-up, entering with meet demand without compromising quality or on time delivery, which are our clients' key priorities. We also continued to strengthen our R&D leadership with new breakthroughs in 2025 that keep us at the cutting edge of technology from AI with cortAIx to Quantum and even nuclear fusion with our GenF project. We took a major step in space by signing a MoU with Airbus and Leonardo to create a leading European space player, a move that will reshape the industry and secure Europe's strategic autonomy in this critical domain. Moving to slide number three. To illustrate our ramp-up and successful positioning in the European rearmament dynamic, I'd like to mention our groundbreaking success with SAMP/T NG, a strategic milestone that reshapes the air defense landscape.
The SAMP/T NG, produced in partnership with MBDA through Eurosam, is the world's most advanced air defense system, which offers long-range air defense with a unique detection and tracking capability against all current and future threats, aircraft, helicopters, UAVs, cruise, and ballistic or hypervelocity missiles. It definitely sets a new standard in air defense with 360 degree and 80 degree coverage, meaning it can intercept threats anywhere in the sky. Extensive interoperability with NATO systems, entering seamless integration with allied forces, high firepower with low manpower requirements, optimizing operational efficiency and camping and decamping, and 24/7 operations. With SAMP/T NG, we have disrupted the long-standing de facto monopoly. Denmark's decision to select SAMP/T NG over their legacy system is a clear validation of our technology, performance, and value proposal, proving that European sovereignty in air defense is now a tangible reality.
This is only the beginning with SAMP/T NG being a high-value, large-scale system, we expect many more export successes. Moving to slide four. Now to discuss what truly differentiates Thales, our innovation and technological leadership, I would like to focus on AI, where we are leading the transformation. Our AI leadership is built on scale and expertise. With 800 AI experts and 100 PhD students. We are also expanding cortAIx globally with five country hubs across the globe. 200 patents covering the full spectrum of AI technologies, securing our intellectual property and competitive edge. Our cortAIx accelerator is now fully deployed across all Thales divisions, embedding AI into 100+ products with 250+ use cases deployed or in development. Another of our strengths lies in our strategic partnership. We are joining forces with industry leaders to co-develop solutions or use cases.
With Dassault Aviation, for instance, we are integrating cortAIx into next-gen aviation systems, enhancing functions for manned or unmanned aircraft for observation, situation analysis, decision-making, planning, and control during military operations. With Naval Group, we aim to accelerate the development of trusted AI solutions applied to critical systems in several key areas, collaborative combat, decision support systems, electronic warfare, training and simulation, logistics and support, just to mention a few. To give you concrete examples of how we are turning AI and innovation into customer value. Number one, our TALIOS reconnaissance and targeting pods capabilities are now unmatched, boosted by cortAIx AI. It provides AI-assisted targeting, passive detection, and enhanced vision to overcome stealth threats- types, electronic warfare, and poor visibility. It maximizes mission efficiency, ensuring safety, and maintaining superiority across all domains for the end users. The 2nd example is in the maritime domain.
Our autonomous mine countermeasures with first delivered in 2025 to the French Navy as AI-augmented detection, classification, and identification capabilities. I am now on slide five. Moving on to our strategic ambitions in space, an area where Thales is positioning itself at the heart of Europe's sovereign capabilities. We have taken a major step forward by signing a memorandum of understanding with Airbus and Leonardo to create a leading European space player. This partnership will combine our complementary strengths to build a global scale champion for Europe. Our target is to launch operations in 2027, subject of course, to regulatory approvals and closing conditions. This initiative holds significant value creation potential for all stakeholders, for customers, for you all, for investors. For customers, it means end-to-end space solution from secure connectivity to Earth's observation and exploration. For Europe, it ensures strategic autonomy in a critical domain.
For investors, it opens new avenues for growth in one of the fastest evolving high-tech sectors. Let's now move to slide six to look at our financial performance with a few charts. As previously said, we have enjoyed strong commercial momentum in 2025, reaching EUR 25.3 billion for the second year in a row. The book-to-bill ratio is maintained significantly above one, with reaching 1.14. Sales recorded a sharp 8.8% organic growth, reaching a record high EUR 22.1 billion. Adjusted EBIT rose by more than 13% on a reported basis, while EBIT margin improved to 12.4%. Adjusted Net Income group share grew by 5.5%, crossing the EUR 2 billion mark.
A very strong generation of free operating cash flow from continued activities, which increased by 27%, reaching EUR 2.6 billion, notably supported by the solid momentum in our order intake. The last chart, the dividend. This new year strong financial performance is leading our board of directors to propose at the next AGM in May a 5.5% increase to EUR 3.90 per share. It demonstrates Thales' confidence and commitment to regular shareholder returns. Turning now to slide seven, looking at our extra financial performance in 2025. I indeed wanted to come back on the continuous progress we've made in terms of corporate social responsibility. First pillar, society. The Thales Climate Passport training deployed in 2024 raises employees' awareness to climate change and its impact on society.
The 2025 campaign was a success with over 94.6% of managers who completed the training way above the 85% target. We are clearly ahead of plan on this pillar. Second pillar regarding our strategy for climate change. Our CO₂ emissions from Scope 1 and 2 decreased by 75.2% in 2024, and Scope 3 emissions decreased by 15.4% compared to 2018. The group has thus achieved its 2030 target ahead of schedule for the third consecutive year. The absolute carbon footprint reduction target remain relevant for 2023 in light of the group's growth prospects. Finally, our third pillar, named people, aims at strengthening gender diversity, where at the end of 2025, we are in line with our 2030 trajectory.
First, the percentage of women in senior management position reached 21.8%. This performance is in line with the group's trajectory to reach the set goal of 25% by 2030. Second, the percentage of management committees with at least four women reached 69.2% in 2025, compared to 64.1% at the end of 2024. For 2030, we have set an ambitious target to have 85% of management committees with at least four women. After this introduction, I now hand over to Pascal, who will comment our financial results in greater detail.
Thank you, Patrice, good morning to everyone. I'm now on slide nine. Starting with order intake. As Patrice mentioned, 2025 was again a strong year in terms of commercial momentum, as order intake was maintained at a record level, namely EUR 25.3 billion. This reflects the quality of Thales' diversified product and solutions portfolio fit for our clients' purposes. The book-to-bill ratio stood at 1.14, meeting our expectation for the year and even 1.24 for different segments. This bodes well for future revenue generation. This robust performance was driven by all type of orders, with a notable strong momentum for orders below EUR 100 million. Looking at large orders, 28 orders with a unit value over EUR 100 million were booked in 2025, of which half in the sole fourth quarter.
20 large orders were booked in defense with several flagships contract, notably in air defense. I can in particular mention the LMM Lightweight Multirole Missiles contract with the UK MoD or a major land surveillance contract with the German MoD. 2025 saw also a good momentum in space with five large contracts booked, of which one in OEM and four in Telco, including the IRIS² initial phase contract. Avionics booked three large contracts, of which a flagship contract for IFE with a major U.S. airline in Q4, 2025. Overall, a strong performance in 2025 for order intake, driven by continued high demands from our clients in all our businesses. Now moving on to sales on slide 10.
Sales in 2025 reached EUR 22.1 billion, translating into an organic growth of 8.8%, significantly above the top of our guidance range, which was upgraded in July. This robust performance was notably driven by defense activities, which recorded double-digit organic growth again this year. Aerospace also contributed significantly with strong organic growth fueled by both avionics and space activities. Cyber and digital sales were slightly down organically, in line with the latest expectations. I will comment further the performance in the following slide. From a geographical perspective, sales organic growth was again well-balanced between emerging and mature markets. It's worth noting that all our emerging markets, Asia, Middle East, and rest of world, recorded double-digit growth. Reported growth was negatively impacted by material currency impact this year as Euro strengthened against most currencies in 2025.
Against the US dollar, as we are all aware of, but also against other currencies like the Australian and Canadian dollars. Overall currency led to a 1.5 percentage points headwinds on 2025 sales reported growth. Scope impact was positive and resulted mainly from Cobham Aerospace Communications acquisition in April 2024. Taking into account these elements, 2025 sales recorded a solid 7.6% reported growth year-over-year. Let's now have a look at Adjusted EBIT. I am on slide 11. As you can see, Adjusted EBIT increased sharply in 2025 and reached EUR 2.7 billion. This increase mainly was driven by the significant progression of our gross margin, up by EUR 391 million. This was mostly the result of the sales volume progression in defense and aerospace.
Looking at indirect costs, R&D expenses continued to increase in volume and represented 6% of sales in 2025, in line with our expectations. Marketing and sales expenses were broadly stable organically, reflecting Thales' ability to optimize its indirect cost in line with the evolution of the business. This was notably the case in cyber and digital in 2025. G&A grew organically at half the pace of revenue, which is also satisfactory. Equity affiliates contributed positively for EUR 61 million to Adjusted EBIT growth in 2025. This includes, in particular, a stable contribution from Naval Group, which includes a fiscal surcharge in France. It also includes positive contributions from various JVs, notably from our defense JVs. It also reflects the one-off positive effect linked to the Telco JV, which is accounted for in our digital identity business.
A word on mechanical effects. As for sales, negative currency impacts at minus EUR 37 million outweighed scope positive impacts at EUR 24 million. Moving on now to performance review by segments, starting with aerospace on slide 12. Orders in the aerospace segments amounted to EUR 6.1 billion, slightly down versus last year on the back of high comparisons basis. Underlying momentum in both avionics and space remained solid. In avionics, this solid momentum extended into most activities. In space, five orders with unit value above EUR 100 million were booked, including several geostationary communication satellites and the initial phase contract from IRIS². Those wins enhance visibility for the coming years. Sales reached EUR 5.9 billion in 2025, recording a solid 8.7% organic sales growth. Both avionics and space contributed to this performance.
Avionics indeed saw double-digit growth year-on-year, driven by all activities. Both flight avionics OE and aftermarket enjoyed strong dynamic, supported by continued ramp-up in aircraft production and also a solid air traffic momentum. Both civil and military domains were supportive. In space, sales were up as well in 2025, mostly driven by the OEM business. Looking at profitability, Adjusted EBIT stood at EUR 560 million in 2025, an outstanding 39% organic increase, which led margin to reach 9.5%. Avionics posted a solid increase in its profitability, driven by stronger aftermarket and further contribution from Cobham Aerocomms. Space recovered even better than announced a year ago, posting a positive EBIT in 2025. Commenting defense on slide 13.
Order intake in defense amounted to EUR 15.1 billion in 2025, setting this year again a new record. The book-to-bill ratio stood significantly above one. It's now the 7th year in a row that defense sees its book-to-bill ratio stands above 1.4. With a backlog of EUR 42 billion, the level of visibility in this activity keeps being high at 3.4 years of sales. Thales booked 20 orders with a unit value above air defense effectors, airborne solutions, or into naval domain. We also believe that stronger European collaboration, for example, through EU mechanism such as SAFE EUR 2 billion, up 12% totally supported by further production and deliveries ramp up across the portfolio. Surface waters and effectors are, for instance, areas where efforts have been paying off in 2025.
Overall, organic growth has outpaced our expectation in 2025, and I want to highlight the tight execution throughout the year that led to this excellent performance. A word finally on Adjusted EBIT generated in EBIT in 2025 versus 2024. Moving on to Cyber and Digital on slide 14. Sales in the Cyber and Digital segments were broadly flat organically in 2025, reflecting a mix performance. In reported figures, it's worth noting that the FX impact was significantly negative and led to a 3.4 points headwind and sales growth. Starting with Cyber as a whole, which was down 3.8% organically over the whole year. Cyber Products, which represented a bit more than 80% of the Cyber business in 2025, recorded a low single-digit organic decrease last year.
As you know, until Q3, while being impacted by the merger of Thales and Imperva sales forces, which notably led to a higher staff turnover and weight on the performance. Employee turnover is now back at a benchmark level. In Q4, cyber product was back to growth, which is positive and paves the way for further growth in 2026. Imperva sales force integration being now over, which should progressively recover a sales growth profile. Cyber services sales were down double-digit organically year-on-year, as it kept being impacted by soft market in Australia. The premiumization strategy Thales has adopted for this business showed encouraging signs in related geographies as we are focusing on selective profitable segment. Digital identity sales were up slightly 1% in organic terms. Digital solutions kept driving growth, notably in secure connectivity solution and payment services.
Volumes and payment cards remain low in 2025, and at this stage, we don't expect the market to improve materially in 2026. Having a look at profitability. Adjusted EBIT Margin resisted in the context of lower revenues in 2025 and stood at 13.7%. This is mainly the result of tight cost management in the cyber business, which saw an increase in margin in 2025, as well as a positive impact from one-off elements in the digital business we already mentioned in July 2025. Turning now to slide 15 and looking at below Adjusted EBIT items. The line cost of net financial debts and other financial results was moderately up in 2025 as expected.
Net financial interest was significantly down in 2025 and stood at minus EUR 160 million in 2025 versus EUR 166 million euro in 2024. Driven by the ongoing deleveraging following the acquisition of Kratos Maurel & Prom. Other financial results amounted at minus EUR 28 million versus plus EUR 35 million in 2024. This evolution is due to the non-recurrence in 2025 of positive one-off recorded in 2024. The final cost on pensions and other employee benefits were slightly up in 2025 to EUR -56 million. Moving on to income tax. At EUR -561 million, the amount of income tax integrates EUR 75 million of tax surcharge in France in 2025. This led the effective tax rate to reach 24.2% in 2025.
It's worth mentioning it is broadly stable excluding the surcharge. The 2026 French budget includes a recurrence of this tax surcharge in 2026. The expected impact for Thales in 2026 PMN should amount to around EUR 90 million, a EUR 50 million increase versus 2025. In addition, the impact on our share in Naval Group's net income should be broadly stable at EUR -8 million. Minorities have significantly decreased year-on-year to EUR 26 million. This is mainly driven by the reduced net losses incurred by tax. All in all, this led to an Adjusted Net Income group share at EUR 2 billion, an increase of almost 6%. The Adjusted EPS stood at EUR 9.76 in 2025. Excluding the tax surcharge in France, Adjusted Net Income group share would have been up by more than 9%.
Having a look at the bridge from Adjusted EBIT to free operating cash flow. I'm now on slide 16. In 2025, on slide 16, we see DNA Depreciations and Amortizations more stable, while net operating investments were significantly up at EUR -746 million, in line with our guidance of 3%-3.5% of sales. This reflects the group's strategy to keep investing for future goals. For example, with additional industry capacities, as already commented. Overall, the balance of DNA and net operating investments amounted to a negative minus EUR 260 million. Change in working capital requirements was a strong tailwind in 2025. I recommend further in the next slide. All in all, 2025 is again an impressive year in terms of cash generation.
Free operating cash flow amounted to almost EUR 2.6 billion in 2025. This means a conversion from Adjusted Net Income to free operating cash flow of 128%. A very strong performance. Let's now have a look on what drove this impressive performance. I'm now on slide 17. Firstly, we have discussed it already, 2025 was once again a year of strong momentum for order intake. Major orders were booked, while orders with a unit value below EUR 100 million were solid as well. Secondly, the payment profile from our customers is very satisfactory. This includes down payment, but also highlights Thales' tight management of contract structure. Lastly, the emphasis that we keep putting internally on stocks optimizations over the last few quarters and year showed a positive outcome in 2025.
All in all, conversions ratio has outpaced expectations for the year at 128%. For 2026, we anticipate a cash conversions ratio between 95% and 100%. This give us confidence to reach the high end of the guidance we gave at our 2024 Capital Markets Day, which is an average conversions ratio of between 95% to 105% over 2024-2028. A word on net debt evolutions. Moving on to slide 18. Net debt saw significant reduction in 2025, Thales' financial position is particularly strong as of end 2025. This was primarily driven by the strong free operating cash flow generation I just detailed.
The impact from acquisition and disposal amounted to a EUR -69 million, which corresponds mainly to final price adjustments related to the sales of Thales' transport business to Hitachi Rail, finalized in May 2024. The dividend cash outs amounted to EUR 781 billion in 2025, corresponding to a payout ratio of 40% and reflecting the increase in Adjusted Net Income. All in all, net debt stood at EUR 1.6 billion as of the end of December 2025. Finally, on slide 19, awards on dividends. As I just described, 2025 was again a year of robust financial performance and value creation. This leads our board to propose to the next AGM a dividend of EUR 3.90, up 5.5% versus 2024.
This is in line with the payout ratio at 40% and reflects the increase in Adjusted EPS. A quick look at the chart on the right-hand side shows the steady growth of Adjusted EPS over the last years, reflecting Thales' ability to consistently deliver sustainable and profitable growth over the years. This marks the end of this financial review. I am now turning over the call to Patrice, who will address our strategic priorities and guidance.
Thank you, Pascal. Now turning to our strategy and outlook for 2026. Let's move to slide 21. Before talking about our 2026 strategic priorities, I'd like to briefly give you the big picture on the tailwinds supporting our different businesses and the key differentiators that Thales can leverage to keep delivering strong and profitable growth. Thales is a unique business in the sense that we are only positioned on markets which benefit from positive long-term momentum, supported by proven resilience and sustainable macro trends. First, if we start with defense, our activities are supported by a strong need for more security, more protection in a context of geopolitical instability. This is shown by the global increase in defense spending with a notable concentration in Europe, where it is projected to grow high single digits annually until 2035 in Europe.
Also by the need for our clients for speed as they re-seek for both high-performance products and solutions, as well as good enough products that are quickly available. The competition is fiercer than ever, but we have significant competitive advantages. Number one, our deep and diverse portfolio with a unique and historic ability to fill products with the latest technologies, our AI-augmented radars, for instance. Number two, our strong customer intimacy and historic knowledge of our clients' concept of operations or CONOPs. Number three, Thales is the strategic partner of choice at the heart of European rearmament. Our position is unmatched because we are deeply embedded in Europe's defense ecosystem. Moving to avionics.
In avionics, we have great visibility thanks to a sustained and powerful demand for travel and mobility that shows no sign of slowing, resulting in continued growth in global air traffic as IATA, the International Air Transport Association, predicts passenger numbers to double in 20-year forecasts. At the same time, a global renewal of commercial fleets, which increases demand for our equipment from OEMs. Of course, we have strong differentiators thanks to our commitment to developing more sustainable and connected avionics, bringing skills and technologies to build the future of avionics, for instance, through predictive maintenance and new generation of flight in management systems. Space now.
Well, demand in the institutional market is improving with a growing number of opportunities, thanks to the rise in government investments, typically growing ESA budget and EU MFF, and the need for large-scale projects like IRIS² or the Space Early Warning Initiative. We have won very important contracts and delivered truly emblematic projects which are testament to the relevance of our positioning and the quality of our products in exploration in science with the lunar descent element for the Argonaut mission in 2030. Regarding observation, the long-awaited entry into force of the all-in-one contract with Indonesia and the first slice of the IRIDE constellation. The telecom side as well, where we recorded a good level of orders and the launch of the initial phase of IRIS² will allow us to start the technological developments of the payload. Lastly, in cyber and digital.
Well, the omnipresence of connected devices and the digitalization of our daily lives. With the consequential need to protect our data, our applications, our identities from cyber attacks continues to fuel our activities. We are a world-class player in cyber with best-in-class products across application security, data security, identity and access management, and also premium cyber services. The services we provide to accompany all industries in their move to cloud are ideally positioned in the competitive landscape. Moving now to slide 22. To seize all the opportunities created by this environment and to address the many challenges facing Thales, I have identified four key priorities for 2026. The first one being ability to capture profitable growth.
To seize this growth, we will continue to ramp up our capacity, which means continuing to scale up production across both existing and new facilities with a clear focus, focusing on high-end demand products such as radars, munitions, and optronic cameras, systems like our SAMP/T NG, RF equipment, Counter-UAS, just to mention a few. At the same time, ensuring we have the right talent. Hence, we plan to recruit more than 9,000 employees worldwide in 2026. Secondly, we'll put a heavy focus on competitiveness through operational excellence, i.e., continuously improving internal processes to continue to deliver on time, at cost, and quality, but also AI-driven productivity, leveraging artificial intelligence to transform how we operate from AI-optimized logistics to so-called software companion, accelerating development cycles and reducing time to market. Lastly, to fully capture the current momentum, we will continue addressing our customers' core expectation, proximity, intelligence.
Proximity, our customers expect alignment with their local realities and sovereign requirements. Typically leveraging our agility, we will further strengthen customer intimacy by localizing critical parts of the value chain where it creates value, as we demonstrated, for instance, with the radar, the recent radar factory open in the UAE. Intelligence as well, we will continue to enhance the value we deliver by embedding AI across our entire product portfolio. Building on our track record of combat-proven AI-enabled systems already deployed operationally, we are scaling AI capabilities across all our offerings. Another key area of focus in 2026 will be to restore growth in our cyber business. The integration of Imperva is freedom, as said by Pascal.
We are now ready to go back on the offensive, first by reaping the benefits of the sales team reorganization, which is now fully up and running to gain traction and go after significant opportunities across all our segments, IAM, software monetization, data sec, application security, and the likes. Second, by continuing to deliver on commercial synergies by offering to our clients solutions combining the best of Imperva and the best of Thales across all our activities, for instance, via cross-selling. Lastly, our teams are working on the next generation of cyber products. These developments will be essential to ensure that we outperform the competition. In a nutshell, we have everything in place to position ourselves for growth on these markets. Regarding the BROMO project. If everything goes as planned, this joint venture will be operational within two years.
During this time, we are focused on securing support from all stakeholders. This includes the European Commission, but also many key states and their regulatory bodies. Above all, in the meantime, we remain focused on delivering our roadmap and maintain a solid pace of recovery. This is essential as by definition, there is still a lot of work to do before the merger is authorized, if it is authorized. It is critical that we continue doing business to the best of our ability on a standalone basis.
As such, the recovery plan we have been implementing is now bearing fruit, as you have seen in 2025. Behind that, we will agree that this project has a strong rationale, securing Europe's future in space and allowing to accelerate innovation through joint R&D and cutting-edge space missions, enhance competitiveness against global players, lead sovereign and military space programs for European nations, and strengthen the European space ecosystem, creating opportunities for suppliers and employees alike. Last but not least, regarding avionics, our focus for 2026 will be to expand that business above and beyond. Today, we benefit from a world-class portfolio supporting our customers in making aviation greener, more digital and more connected. Our ambition is to extend our leadership across all aircraft manufacturers.
As you know, the most powerful structural trend in the market, in both civil and defense market, is the renewal of most aircraft platforms around the 2030s. We are already actively preparing for this significant opportunity. To that end, in 2026, we are continuing to invest heavily in technologies, in industrial capabilities. In technology, our nine product lines, including flight controls, high performance IMA, integrated modular avionics, help displays, navigation heads are already competitive and are being further enhanced to address the next generation of platform requirements. In industrial capabilities as well, while we continue upgrading our industrial sites to ensure best-in-class performance and competitiveness. Thanks to the actions already taken and the investments underway, we are extremely well-positioned for the upcoming competitions. We are excited to deliver the most advanced, reliable, and industrially competitive avionics solutions.
Now I'm on slide 23, where all these priorities will bring Thales to pursue ambitious financial targets in 2026. First, a book-to-bill ratio above one. Second, a dynamic organic sales growth between 6%-7%, which should correspond to sales ranging from EUR 23.3 billion-EUR 23.6 billion, including FX impact. Number three, a 12.6%-12.8% Adjusted EBIT Margin, which puts us well on track to deliver our 2028 targets. Number four, a free operating cash flow conversion ratio still high, expected between 95% and 100%. This is clearly a key strength of our model. Overall, we are well on track to deliver the various commitments we made back at our 2024 CMD, where we provided some outlook by 2028.
We are not even halfway through the 2024-2028 period. I can already tell you that we feel very confident in our ability to reach the high end of our organic sales guidance, given what I've just described in terms of business opportunities. In terms of operating margin, we are clearly on track to deliver 13%-14% by 2028. As far as free operating cash flow generation is concerned, there again, we are confident we will be in a position to reach the high end of our guided range. Many thanks again for your attention. We will now be pleased with Pascal to take all your questions.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll now begin the question-and-answer session. As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Once again, it's star one one to ask a question and wait for your name to be announced. Thank you. Again, please press star one one to ask a question. We are now going to proceed with our first question. The question's come from the line of Chloé Lemarié from Jefferies. Please ask your question.
Yes, good morning, and thank you for taking my question. Could I start with the guide and digging into the divisional growth expectation, please? For 2026, what do you factor in in terms of organic growth for defense, aerospace, and Cyber and Digital? In cyber, what do you call a vigorous market? How do you think Thales will perform compared to that market growth, please? Thank you.
Good morning, Chloé. First, I mean, giving you a bit of insight on our segment.
Expected goals for 2026. In total, as we mentioned, the guidance of organic growth between 6% and 7% at group level for 2026 over 2025. Going through our divisions, starting with Defense. Defense at this point, I think a digit overall. That was, by the way, what was our guidance for 2025. You have seen that we weren't above this level ultimately. As we move into 2026, we believe that I think a digit is a reasonable guidance for Defense role and consistent with the 6%-7% overall for Thales Group. Second on Aerospace.
Aerospace, I mean, growing, by the way, both from Avionics and also from our space business. Aerospace overall, what we see probably mid-single digit to mid-single digit plus with Avionics mid-single digit. We mentioned as we presented, 2025 both that Avionics in 2020, in 2025 was more, double, a low double digits. We are at this point, probably a bit more conservative on Avionics for 2026. Today, as we see, mid-single digit, this being based on also, I mean, the announcement from Airbus in term of OEM. Also, I mean, as we see, I mean, the air traffic developing in 2026.
Uh, space, uh, space, uh, we are, we are positive on the back of, uh, of, uh, I mean, the, uh, 2025 order intake and as we see twenty twenty-six overall. So, uh... And lastly, I mean, CDI, uh, overall, uh, mid, uh, mid-single digits. Which of course, I mean, uh, Cyber above this level and Digital, uh, uh, lower than this, uh, than this, than, than this, uh, than this level. So as, as you know, I mean, one of our key priorities that Patrice mentioned, uh, is, uh, to get, uh, Cyber back on, uh, on growth, uh, in a, in a market which is today, um, uh, pretty positive as we, uh, as we, as we said.
At this point, of course, we mentioned that Q4 for Cyber product was getting back to growth, which is not the case for the Cyber services. That was down in Q4. At this point, of course, I mean, we need to be a bit cautious, but the market is there in term of demand. It's up to us, I mean, to get back to growth in particular in the Cyber product, which is absolutely essential for us in term of value creations. More to come as we'll move forward in 2026. Overall, yes, I mean, one key priority for us is to recover, I mean, growth. Next questions maybe.
Thank you. Maybe we ask analysts to limit yourself to two questions so we can give opportunities for all the analysts to ask their questions. Thank you. We are now going to proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of Ben Heelan from Bank of America. Please ask a question.
Good morning, guys. I hope you both are well. I had a question around AI and the implications around Cyber. Obviously, there's been a lot of pressure on software companies over the past couple of months around the threats of agentic AI. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you're seeing in the Cyber market. Do you see it as a threat? Do you see it as an opportunity? How can we, on the outside, think about the impact of agentic AI on Cyber? The second question was, I guess a bit of a follow on from that. Can you talk a little bit about, given what is going on from a technology perspective, with AI, how is your M&A strategy evolving to encompass that?
Is it a time to accelerate doing, you know, deals in Cyber or moving into different areas? Is it a time to slow down and see how things progress? Is there any update that you can provide us from that? Thank you.
I will take this one, Ben. Good morning and thanks for your question. Yes, indeed, there has been recently a lot of debates about AI and in particular agentic AI and how will it or not, by the way, disturb the software market. Well, as far as the Cyber market is concerned, our market, huh? First, it's a mix of, I would say, hardware product and software solution. Typically, for hardware there is no real, we say, worries to have in mind. For our software solution-
I do think this is a clear opportunity to have even more, I would say, efficient solutions to fight against AI, to fight against cyberattacks. Sorry. This is for me a great opportunity and in particular where I would say on the verge of how we say launching a new solutions, leveraging agentic AI, to serve some of our products, Cyber products. That's a key a key PR + for us. M&A. If I move to M&A, well, you know, no change, if I may, in our global, I would say approach or mindset, in terms of capital allocation in general and M&A in particular.
We will be always, I would say, very pragmatic and financially disciplined. We are looking at every, I would say, verticals of Thales, defense, aeronautics, or Cyber and Digital. Probably putting a little bit space aside because we have already a big M&A, I would say, initiative to conclude with the BROMO project. Clearly, I do not exclude any segment per definition to benefit from an M&A, I would say, opportunity. Clearly, I would say we'll see if something will make sense in the next future. I would say no change versus what we already discussed for several years in a row.
Okay. Very clear. Thank you.
Operator? Operator, are you still there?
The next questions come from the line of Olivier Brochet from Rothschild & Co Redburn. Please ask your question.
Thank you so much. Bonjour Patrice, bonjour Pascal. Two questions. First of all, on cyber. You're positioning yourself for growth. Does it mean some pricing efforts that needs to be done there? What impact do you see for the margin in cyber and digital in 2026? Consensus is at 15.1%. Is that something you think is reasonable? Second question is, in your revenues in 2025, how much was done with Ukraine, direct and indirect, please?
Maybe I will start, and letting Patrice to complete maybe. Margin. I mean, first let me start with this Cyber product, which as you understand represent 80% of our Cyber business. This is where, I mean, clearly our challenge to get back to growth and of course, not at the expense of prices. Basically, I mean, this is, I mean. Right under this. For us, I mean, this represents when I talk about the Rule of 30, it should represent a level of EBIT margin of around 20% and overall a level of growth of 10%. This is the basically what we have in mind in term of midterm objective for this for this business.
Of course, as we enter 2026, our view is not to give up on prices just to get back to growth. This is not, this is absolutely not what we are willing to do. First point. Second point on Ukraine and our level of revenue directed to Ukraine. Giving you just three figures. I mean, 2024 overall revenue directed to Ukraine was around EUR 200 million. It went up pretty strongly in 2025, with overall in 2025 a level of revenue of around EUR 450 million. All of that to be compared to a defense level of revenue for Thales at EUR 12 billion.
If you look at 2025, EUR 450 out of EUR 12 billion, it's something like 3.5%, 3.6% of our revenue directed to Ukraine. We believe that revenue to Ukraine will keep growing in 2026.
Today our view in 2026 is a level of revenue to Ukraine that should be close to EUR 600 million. It's a growth driver. When you look at overall what it represents against our global defense exposure, something like 3.5% of the defense segment's revenue, which is still a pretty limited.
Thank you. That's very helpful. Sorry, I didn't catch if you commented on the consensus in Cyber for 2026.
The consensus, no, I've not.
Is it 15.1? It's 15.1%.
2020, in 2026. Overall, I mean, what I mentioned is overall for Cyber and Digital, a level of growth of mid-single digits. If you start from our level of revenue in 2025, and if you add up, I mean, 5% is what you get for the 2026 level of revenue. Overall starting from 2025 level of sales overall for CDI, 3.862. If you add the 5% on top of that, this is how you should get to a 2026 expected revenue for CDI.
Sure. No, I was thinking of, the margin consensus at 15%.
Oh, no. Overall, I mean, it's above what we have in mind. It's, it's above what we have in mind. If I start with 2025, we mentioned a level of margin for CDI at 13.7%.
Mm-hmm.
We said that we add in this level of margin, I mean, a few positive one-off. We believe that the 2025 recurring level of margin is more in line with 13% for 2025, putting aside those one-off. By the way, I mean, you need to understand that in 2025 CDI had also to face with two headwinds, one being, I mean, the drop in the US dollars, plus implementations of the US tariff. All of that representing probably something like one percentage points of headwinds. This leads to a recurring level of margin in 2025 at 13%. I mean, from that, this is what we could expect for 2026.
Maybe slightly above this level, but this is, I mean, the overall ballpark that we could expect for CDI, EBIT margin in 2026.
I think, Olivier, your question was related to cyber and not CDI as a whole.
Ah.
You mentioned the 15.1% consensus for 2026 for Cyber which corresponds to what we see globally for the Cyber segment of CDI for 2026.
Yes, 2026. I mean, sure. Yeah, I'm sorry for that. I mean, the connection is not great. If your question was about Cyber EBIT margin for 2026, overall, a 15.5% EBIT margin for 2026 is what to have in mind.
Okay. Very clear. Thank you very much.
We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Alessandro Pozzi from Mediobanca. Please ask your question.
Good morning, and thank you for taking the questions. The first one is on Free Cash Flow conversion. I was wondering if you can perhaps share your assumptions around working capital and CapEx. I think working capital was a key contributing factor in 2025. Given the order intake, perhaps maybe we should assume something similar for 2026. CapEx, I think you mentioned that you of course have the ramp-up going on. You increased the production of radars. You mentioned that potentially CapEx is gonna go up again in 2026, and if you can quantify that as well.
Second question on capital allocation, which is a nice segue from the first question is your net debt is substantially down. We know that your priority is to delever the company. I think by 2026, probably that target will be accomplished, and or you're going to be very close. I was wondering whether we should think about a different capital allocation, maybe more buybacks as well. Any thought on that will be appreciated. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Alessandro. We can hear you loud and clear, which was not the case before, so it's much better. Let's start with the, I mean, cash flow generation for 2026. I mentioned that, I mean conversions ratio should be 95%-100%. This takes into account a few assumptions that you want me to give you more, more, more insight. First, in term of CapEx, it's true that we'll keep seeing our CapEx moving up in 2026. Overall, I mean, if you look at 2025 CapEx, we're at around EUR 750 million.
2026, it should be higher, probably in my view, EUR 820 million-EUR 850 million CapEx for 2026. Pretty much in line with the overall CapEx to revenue ratio around 3.5%, which was the high end of our guidance that we shared with you at our Capital Markets Day in November of 2024. First point. Second point in term of working capital, it's true that 2025, I mean, change in working capital was a clear tailwind, and reflecting, I mean, in particular down payments and large down payments on, in particular defense export contracts.
2026, at this point, we believe that the guidance that I mentioned about conversion ratio is more based on a flattish level of working capital. This is, I mean, what we have in mind. Of course, it will depend at the end of the day of our order intake and the profile of order intake, in particular coming from export contract. At this point, what we shared with you is a level of cash flow generation. I mean, make an inaudible close to 100% being based on something like a stable level of working capital. Again, with a stable level of working capital, a pretty strong level of cash flow generation, again. With Thales investing also more in terms of CapEx.
As I mentioned, I mean, a level of CapEx, 820, 815, it has to be compared to a level of depreciations slightly above EUR 500 million. Basically we keep investing on all our industrial science. We keep investing on ISIT. We keep investing in engineering, tooling, for us, I mean, to benefit from the growth that we see down the road. Maybe capital allocation for Patrice?
Yes, I can, Alessandro, I can come back on, on this point in a more global, we say term. As you know, we've said that for a while now we have all the different levels available in what we call the toolbox, in fact, Thales. Clearly you've mentioned number one, delivering the company, which is an important stake for us as we do want to keep Thales being an investment-grade company with a strong balance sheet. Clearly, funding our organic growth with CapEx and R&D, and you know R&D is super important for us. M&A, we discussed M&A with the same, I would say, philosophy as already discussed.
Dividends as well, we said that the 40% payout ratio will be proposed to the AGM, giving a clear visibility on this front. Last but not least, buyback. Buyback is part of the toolbox, clearly. Now don't always keep in mind, sorry, that among the different criteria that we look at, if and when we have to decide for a buyback is clearly the price of the company, the share price. Is there a gap or not? Do we think there is a clearly potential in terms of valuation of the company that is not well understood by the market?
It's true that, currently, if we look at the share price of Thales, I cannot say that there is a misunderstanding or a mismatch between the full potential of the company and how the company is currently valued by the market. All in all, the toolbox is there. We have all the levels, levers enhanced, and we do not exclude one among any others per definition.
Okay, thank you very much.
Thank you.
We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Christophe Menard from Deutsche Bank. Please ask your question.
Yes, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I had two. The first one on BROMO. Thanks for the update. Is there any extra update on the authorization? Any progress being made on this, quite obviously? You mentioned it needs to be authorized. That's the key element. The other question on SAMP/T NG, thanks for the update as well. The contract in Denmark, has it been confirmed? I mean, that has been announced back in September, but is it confirmed yet. Can you comment, I mean, you mentioned a few other potential markets. Do you see more interest since the September CMD or the September announcement? What is the updated potential? Thank you very much.
I can start and Pascal will complement, of course, if needed. Well, on BROMO, I would say, so far, so good. I mean, everything is on track. Number one, the social processes are ongoing, and I would say with constructive discussions with the unions, constructive discussions. They do understand the rationale of this initiative and I would say the benefits for everybody, the customers, the employees, and as well the shareholders of those three industry, the three groups. Of course the 2nd work stream, which is important, is antitrust authorization. On this front, discussions are ongoing in a positive, I would say, with a positive, I would say, mindset of everybody. This is...
I'm not saying that, we expect such or such outcome, but globally speaking, I would say the discussions are constructive on this front as well. That's the two main work stream for me. There are many others, but probably with less, I would say, importance than those two, those two ones. Stay tuned. We'll keep you informed, of course, but for the moment, work in progress in a positive sense. On SAMP/T, now there is, for me, absolutely no risk not to book this contract in 2026. The Danish customer even passed us some LLI contract, long lead item contract, to, I would say, anticipate the formal and definitive full scope contract that was clearly expected in 2026.
No surprise on the fact that it was not booked in 2025. Denmark has chosen to go through OCCAR. That's why it takes a bit of time, and again, it's just an iterative process. No surprise on this front. You should or you could consider that it is 99% secure, I would say. Now, of course, there are many other prospects in typically in Europe, Eastern Europe, in the Middle East as well. By the way, the recent events of this last weekend showed how air defense is important again and again, after Ukraine, it's another, I would say, very visible and striking example of how air defense is important.
Of course, it reinforce our conviction that SAMP/T NG has a lot of potential in the years ahead of us. I don't want to mention any country in particular, because they don't like us to disclose our discussions. Believe me, the pipe is important in this domain. In particular, both in terms of, say, performance offered by the SAMP/T NG versus its main competitor, which is a Patriot system. Secondly, an important criteria of decision is lead time.
And again, SAMP/T NG is, I would say, available in the short run, clearly before 2030, 2028, 2029, where the Patriot system, if you want to buy one tomorrow, you will have to wait much longer than the date of, I said, for the SAMP/T NG. So all these criteria, all these elements are positive elements, and that makes SAMP/T NG a good candidate for future big orders in the years to come.
Thank you very much.
We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Aymeric Poulain from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please ask your question.
Thank you for taking my question. Good morning. The first question is on Cyber again, and just to understand the phasing of the re-acceleration, the gradual comments you make in the guidance, and why does it take so long to regain the lost market share of last year? That would be the first question. Secondly, to follow up on Ben's question on AI implication for Cyber, but perhaps broadening the question on the whole portfolio. I mean, what do you see in terms of the overall competitive impact of AI on your various businesses? What are the most important challenges or opportunity?
Maybe, is there already some figures you can provide in terms of the contribution to sales or the benefit in terms of cost or the size of the investment that you're putting into your AI transformation? Thank you.
Maybe, in fact, good morning, Aymeric. Thank you very much for your two questions. Maybe I will start on cyber. In a nutshell, why so low? Why it's so slow? I mean.
I guess it was quite clear that 2025 was below expectations. we made it clear that, I mean, those difficulties that we faced in 2025 was above what we anticipated being of 2025. it's true that it took us a bit of time, I mean, to put that under control in term of, I mean, the organization of the sales force, implementation of the new variable compensations program, getting the right level of training across the workforce. I mean, developing the new element, the new level of intimacy with customers and our sales force, our sales reps, I mean, to get trained to a new portfolio of products. it seems to be easy from your side.
Now, when you drive and you manage a sales force of more than 1,000 sales reps, I can tell you that it's not that easy. We are, of course, a bit cautious. This is also our trademark globally. We believe that we should see growth accelerating throughout 2026. Now, let's take it quarter by quarter, I mean, to give you more input on that. Please be assured that we are doing whatever we can, I mean, to accelerate on this Cyber product business. Now AI...
I've tried to explain, but perhaps I was not clear enough during the presentation, how we do leverage AI for a while now, in all our different lines of products. Be there, I would say, sensors. I took the example of the TALIOS Pod, but I could have mentioned, how do we embed AI in our radars, in our electronic warfare equipment, in our even radio communication equipment, number one. Number two, how do we leverage AI in the so-called decision and making system, the C2 system, if I take the military acronym. We have already powered by AI several, if not many, C2, C3, C4I systems for several customers in the world.
It's not possible to give you a measure of how AI make us even more, I would say, attractive, but that's what I observe with the conversations I have with our customers. Starting from world-class products and making them even more, I would say, attractive by enhancing their capability through AI. This is a clear and straightforward strategy for us. Last but not least, we do as well care about AI on our internal processes. That's another, I would say, aspect of how do we use AI. It's clear that it is a key element of our global and overall competitiveness plan. It's one element among many others.
It's again, not possible to, I would say, decouple this one from all the others and to say, "Okay, the contribution of this element help us in this percentage to improve the competitiveness of the group." Definitely, it is a key element that we use, or a key enabler that we use to improve the overall competitiveness of Thales.
Thank you.
We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question come from the line of David Perry from J.P. Morgan. Please ask your question.
Yes. Hi, Pascal. Hi, Patrice. Hope you are both well. Two questions, one simple one a bit longer. The simple one is, the associate line was very strong. If you could just comment on that would be helpful. The second one, if I can be a bit provocative. You delivered a good EBIT number overall for the group that was better than consensus. If I compare it to expectations 12 months ago, you're kind of double-digit better on EBIT in defense and aerospace, and you're about 20% worse in Cyber and Digital. What is the chance in 12 months' time that you meet your group guidance, which you often do, but it's going to be a lot better in defense or aerospace and worse in Cyber or Cyber and Digital?
If you just give your level of confidence, overall on the individual parts. Thank you.
Good morning, David, thank you very much again for your insightful questions. I mean, the first one, I mean, about equity affiliates. Yes, it's true that, I mean, 2025 was pretty good. Having said that, 2024, the 2024 reference base for equity earnings was pretty low. It's true that we had in 2024 some negative one-off. I think probably a better reference base for equity earnings would be more 2023 than 2024.
If you compare 2025 against 2023, you will realize that overall our equity earnings in 2025 are 20% above what we reported two years ago. This is basically, I mean, a normal type of tax-based contributions. In particular because it shows that our defense JVs are doing pretty well. Also, I mean, fueled by, I mean, also the level of demands across the board. Maybe last point, it's also true that, and I mentioned it, we had on one of our CDI JV a positive one-off in 2025. The underlying, I mean, message is that overall, across the board, we see, I mean, contributions from JVs keeping moving up.
By the way it could have been even better, absent the tax surcharge in France that it never got contributions by EUR 8 million in 2025. All in all, I mean, a pretty good level of contribution, but reflecting in particular defense JVs that are performing pretty well. I could also mention JVs in the avionics business that are doing also pretty well. Your second question's about what is going to happen and in a year time when we meet again, how will we be-
If we are still alive.
If we are still alive. No, I mean, maybe I can start, Patrice, unless you want to. No, of course, I mean, we give you at this point, I mean, the best views that we have within Thales.
Yes.
With of course, I mean, defense, I mean, quite a good tractions on this, on this, on this matter. Avionics also a pretty good tractions. Space as well, that's, I mean, when you look at our level of growth for space in 2025, that's been above the expectations. It's a matter of fact. I mean, I remember a year ago telling you space revenue should be low single digit in 2025. Eventually, we've done the mid-single digit plus for space, so doing better. Now, I mean, it's about cyber, we share, I mean, how we see the situations getting back to growth progressively on cyber product.
I mean, this is what we expect to announce you in a year time as we release our 2026 financials. Overall, what I see is that as compared to what we said a year ago, well, overall, whether it's order intake, whether it's revenue, organic growth, or whether it's EBIT, whether it is net income, whether it's free operating cash flow, at the end of the day, when you look at our 2025 figures compared to what we said a year ago, all those metrics in term of our 2025 results are above what we said a year ago. I mean, this is just fact-based comments.
At this point, I mean, we're just entering 2026 with, of course, a number of open points. We'll see in a year time, whether or not, I mean, we'll be at this level or whether we'll be above what we guided this morning. We have shared what we do strongly believe in as we speak, of course. You know, David, every year, we face along the year unexpected events. Typically.
Tariffs.
last year it was the tariff. Who could have expected, the decision taken by the U.S. president, at the very beginning of 2025? No one, by the way. No one. It's our duty, and I think it's part of the merits of the business model of Thales, to deliver, whatever it happens. The fact that, yes, we are, how we say, involved in several domains or several verticals, maybe a source of complexity for you guys trying to understand Thales. It's also a source of resilience, along the year when it happens something, here or there. It always happen something here or there. Always. Always, always, huh?
At the end, what really counts, it's Thales results, even more importantly, that the results of division A, B, or C. Again, if we do our results by the end of this year a bit differently, what would be even more important if is doing our results globally speaking, yeah? We will see, David. We'll do our best to deliver, I would say, as expected per division, but what matters most is what we do at group level.
Okay. Something we can chat, about over the next dinner, which we look forward to.
With pleasure, David. With pleasure.
Of course.
Maybe a last question.
We are now going to proceed with one final question.
The questions come from the line of Ross Law from Morgan Stanley. Please ask your question.
Hi, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions and squeezing me in. Just one on kind of high level, on the medium term growth outlook, which you've upped the, kind of upper end of the range of 5%-7%. Can you maybe just provide some of the color on the growth rates at the divisional level? That's the first one. Secondly, on Space, what is the absolute EBIT contribution in 2025, and what do you expect for 2026? Thanks.
Okay. At this point, I mean, a bit, a bit cautious on regarding, you division by division for the 2024-2028 period of time. I mean, what we said today is overall, Thales in term of organic growth being at the high end range of the 5-7, 7%. At this point, we need to be more patient. I don't want to go deeper on this matter. Second point, on Space. You probably remember a year ago, we said that we're expecting, I mean, 2025, pre-restructuring, EBIT being positive.
What I can share with you is that overall the post-restructuring, so full Adjusted EBIT for Space was slightly positive in 2025, despite the level of restructurings that in my memory is something around EUR 20 million. Overall being slightly positive despite a EUR 20 million headwind on restructurings. It shows that we've done a bit more than expected on this matter. What we're expecting in 2026 is a further progressions of our EBIT. All of that being consistent with the 7%+ 2028 EBIT margin that we shared at the Capital Markets Day with some kind of linear progressions in term of EBIT margin.
That this is what we said a year ago, and this is what we can confirm today. Linear progressions from this, breakeven plus, a full EBIT margin in 2025 to 7%+ in 2028.
Thanks so much.
Thank you very much, Ross.
Thank you, thank you for your questions. We'll be happy to meet you on the road in the next couple of days together with Pascal. If you have any follow-up questions, do not hesitate to reach out to Louis and the IR team. I wish you all a very good day. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
Thank you very much. See you. Bye-bye.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. If you didn't have a chance to ask a question on today's call, please do not hesitate to send your question to Thales Group Investor Relations at ir@thalesgroup.com, and we will get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.