Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Imerys Webcast Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Alessandro Dazza. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning, everybody, thank you for joining us, this morning, with a very short notice. On the call with me, Sébastien Rouge, our CFO, as well as the investor relation team of Imerys. So this morning, we want to shed some lights on one of our businesses around energy, and especially energy transition. And why are we doing this? Because the importance of this business for the Imerys group has become such that we have reorganized ourselves around it, to dedicate energy, resources, and focus, and also to reflect the importance and the size this business is reaching. Mainly two businesses, The Quartz Corporation, a joint venture, and I will go into details on both businesses later on. A joint venture, 50/50, with our Norwegian partners.
Imerys controls 50%, and Graphite & Carbon, a historical business of the group, controlled at 100%. You see on the bottom of this page, the 2023 key financials. If you consider we control TQC at 50%, it means that this business in 2023 represented close to EUR 400 million in sales, and around EUR 150 million potentially of EBITDA. It means it has reached more than 10% of the group, and that's why we want to give the proper relevance and importance to this important business. We've called the new business area we have created, Solutions for Energy Transition, because that's what it is about. It's around energy, it's green energy, it's the energy transition. When I will describe the businesses and what they do, you will understand well, what I mean. How we're gonna report it?
We are gonna report it within our normal portfolio, Performance Minerals, Refractory, Basic Construction, and Solutions for Energy Transition in the future. Since the joint venture is not consolidated, The Quartz Corporation, it's controlled at 50%, we will utilize the share of net income coming from this business to be included in our future reporting. For this reason, we have adjusted the definition of EBITDA. As a reminder, in the past 2023, the EBITDA of the group included the dividends distributed, and you will see the comparisons as we move on. But the dividends distributed by the joint venture, in the future we will report the net income of the Imerys part, because it's a better reflection of the ongoing level of the business, rather than peak the moments the board decides to distribute the dividend.
Nothing changes for Graphite Carbon, and it is fully consolidated. Then, on a half-year basis, we will disclose the entire KPIs, the financial KPIs of the Quartz Corporation, including, of course, sales, revenues, EBITDA, and so on. But more important than how you put numbers together, what are these businesses? So first, the Quartz Corporation. It's a joint venture created in 2011 with Norsk Mineral, a family-controlled industrial group from Norway, and is a real joint venture. Both partners brought assets to the joint venture. Imerys controlled a unique mine of silica, or quartz, in the U.S. Our partner in Norway had a fantastic state-of-the-art processing unit to treat this sand. So they both contributed key elements to the joint venture. We're very happy today, after many years of building up, even struggling, very happy today to share this fantastic business.
50/50, as I said, EUR 330 million revenue last year, around 350 employees, 2 big plants, and you will see a picture on the next slide, 1 in the US, North Carolina, and 1 in Norway. Main markets. Three, I would say three top markets, and they're probably in order of importance on this slide: solar, so photovoltaic, typically, semiconductors, and optical fibers. What do we produce? We produce a high purity quartz, so a high purity raw material to start with, and a great processing to reach up to five nines, so 99.999% SiO2 purity, which allow us to be a leader in this market. We are either number one or number two in everything we do, and we do serve all top crucible makers in the world.
On this slide, you see a nice picture of the two big operations. As I said, Spruce Pine in North Carolina, really a world-class high purity deposit, and our beautiful plant in Drag, in the northern part of Norway. Green area, hydroelectric power, 100% renewable energy used at this plant. So fundamentally, a very green product that will help the energy transition. So what is high purity quartz used for? On this slide, you have a very nice, simple, and clear picture of the use. We sell it to producers of crucibles. Crucible is, to make it simple, a big cup, about, I would say, a meter of diameter, one meter tall. This big cup is used to grow silicon ingots, high purity silicon ingots, that you see in the middle of the picture, that are then sliced to create a silicon wafer.
And the silicon wafer is the basic, either to make a solar cell on the top of these pictures, or multiple steps to become a semiconductor, a microchip. So here is really the core of our activity in QTC. So the two underlying markets, the most important, clearly, solar and, semiconductor. If we deep dive on solar, you can see on the left of this graph, the incredible growth of this industry. It's 2023, we are talking about around 400, or it's slightly above 400 gigawatts of capacity created. Very high growth in the past, 27% CAGR, starting from a low point. The CAGR, that is slowing, we have assumed it 10%, and we are probably conservative. There are studies that show much higher numbers. But when you start from a much larger base, 400, the growth is still impressive.
It is expected to double over the next seven years. Why? Solar is the cheapest, the easiest way to produce renewable energy, as simple as that. Fast growing in all regions, I can tell you, Imerys is investing in power purchasing agreement to source green electricity. Most of the plants, the projects we are working on, are all based on solar. Quick permitting, cheap installation, very reliable, technology is good. And fortunately, all the technologies currently available, and we do expect for the many years to come, use and need crucibles. So we'll need a high purity quartz as basis for the future. The higher the purity, the better the crucible, and especially the more performing, cleaner, will be the ingots and the wafers that will follow. So it's a very critical element in the value chain, in the production chain of this market.
Second market, may be more known to the world, the semiconductor. As you can see, we're talking about large numbers since a long time, maybe with an acceleration, differently from the slide we saw before. Studies expect the production of semiconductor to grow faster in the coming years on the back of AI, clearly, but also, let's not forget it, all the electrification, which is not only vehicle. A vehicle will need many more chips when it's electric than a combustion. But we are moving, in general, towards electrification. I look at my plans, one of the ways to reduce our CO2 footprint is to go electric, move away from burning, from other sources of energy, because electricity can be produced in a greener way. All of this will require electronic controls and, therefore, semiconductors.
So I'm not surprised to see an acceleration of the semiconductor market going forward. Again, for a semiconductor, highest purity required of the wafer, and therefore, the raw material to start with, where you grow your ingots, will be even more crucial going forward. Our high purity quartz will be the answer. The next page, a few numbers, that if you have studied our Universal Registration Document should be known. On the left, what we have been reporting until today in terms of net income and its contribution in the current operating income of the company. On the right, I think more easy to use is sales and EBITDA, so that we can compare it to the group, and especially the impact this business have and will have in the Imerys group in the future.
Over the year 2022-2023, the business almost doubled in size. I remind you that is always 100%, and even more grew our EBITDA. So great performance of the business in terms of volume growth, price discipline, new products development. I think, great job done by the team. By the way, the team led from Norway, from Guillaume, long-time manager of this business. And I think after turning the business around, getting approval from all main users in the world, has built a great business, of which both partners are very proud of. To close on this part, great underlying markets, solar, semiconductor. A unique product, because it starts with a unique deposits of high purity, and then it is processed in a really state-of-the-art, highly technological plant in Norway. We have been investing in this business over the last two years.
We will continue to invest in the coming years. We follow in our company and market growth, and this business will continue to deliver great contribution, meaning profitability and cash flow to the Imerys Group. If we now move to the second business, it is graphite and carbon. I think you know it a bit better because it's been with us since a long time. A strong growth with the lithium ion battery world over time. Last year, around EUR 220 million sales, 24% EBITDA, 400 people, four locations. The two big ones are Willebroek, Belgium, and Bodio in Switzerland. One dedicated to carbon black and one dedicated to synthetic graphite.
The unit in Canada produces, processes natural graphite, and the unit in Japan, it's rather a technology center with coating technology that are used by us as well as for third parties to mostly work on anode material for batteries. Underlying markets, many applications for these products. For sure, by far the largest is lithium ion batteries. It is conductive additives, so not the anode material, but rather the salt and pepper that makes a battery work. There is a picture better display explaining the use. Fuel cells, a growing market, is an alternative to lithium-ion batteries. It needs just as much synthetic graphite and carbon black. Strong growth because it's a new business. Conductive polymers, again, very often related to electronics, so solid growth as well.
Let's not forget that there are some other normal applications, like engineering material, alkaline batteries, so the batteries of everyday use at home. So we are. They remain very important because they contribute to the development of this business. The next slide, you see two pictures. These are the main plants where we have invested heavily. On the left is carbon black. As you remember, we have built line 3 commissioned last year. We're finalizing line 4, so we are ready for future growth. And we have also signed an agreement with E.ON of Germany to build on-site an energy recovery unit that will dramatically cut our CO2 emissions in the future. Operational, hopefully by 2025, at the latest. On the right, our Bodio plant, synthetic graphite.
There as well, we have invested heavily with two new lines to serve growing demand in lithium-ion batteries, 100% hydroelectric energy, green, great development there. Where is it used mostly? You see on the left a typical battery. You have a cathode, which is fundamentally lithium plus something else, depending on the chemistry of your battery. It can be nickel, manganese, it can be phosphate, iron. Lithium is always the basis. You have an anode on the other side, which is typically graphite. To make sure that the electricity flows between the cathode particles and the anode particles, you want to fill the voids between the single particles, and that's what an additive does. It fills these small voids, and it allows a good, perfect flow, I would almost say, of energy, of electricity throughout the battery. These additives is what we offer.
It is synthetic graphite. It is high purity carbon. Graphite, we are the only one in Europe. Lower CO2 footprint, as I said before, 100% green in energy behind. In carbon black, we are the reference, really considered the reference product in the industry everywhere in the world, heavily in Asia, where to still today, batteries are largely produced. We do look forward to all the gigafactories coming to Europe, because with our two assets here, I think we are the predetermined supplier of this value chain. Last but not least, our technology center in Japan. We coat, we have a chemical vapor deposition, to be technical, a coating on graphite particles and are used for anode applications, typically in, in. We spoke about this business. On the next slide, we spoke about this business during the Capital Market Day.
If you remember, next to significant investments in the business, we have announced a very fast growth. If I look back, before 2021, this business was EUR 100 million, it became EUR 200 million. We wanted to bring it to EUR 400 million by 2025. Well, we are late. We are a bit late. I have no doubt on the long-term direction and opportunities, but the second half of last year and the beginning of this year have been slow. For many reasons, you see them on the right. First of all, the adoption of EVs has been a bit slower than expected, and we all read newspapers and statistics in the U.S. and in Europe, especially. Because of the hype in 2021 and the beginning of 2022, there was maybe an overproduction and therefore, high inventories, so we have lived through a destocking.
The general economic situation, especially Europe, has been also slow; therefore, also other applications at the same time have been slow. This being said, I have no doubt on the trajectory. The fundamentals are strong. EV production, penetration use will continue to grow... We have the capacity; we have expanded our capacity; we have the products, the R&D. The long-term prospects for me, absolutely unchanged, just delayed over time a little bit. I know that the team here, led by Frank Wittchen in Germany, the team here is committed and will deliver the business plan in the medium term. We are the global leader. That's important. We are the market leader in these applications in both carbon black and synthetic graphite. We have heavily invested in innovation.
We have built an R&D reactor that copies, in a small scale, exactly the production process, so we can really test many different raw materials, finished products, customers' applications. So innovation is key in a fast developing industry like the lithium-ion battery, and we are the leader in terms of sustainability. We will be the preferred partner of our customers because there is no energy transition if we also do not look at how our raw materials, how our cars are produced in the form of our [inaudible]. So we remain committed, and I have no doubt that with a bit of delay, we will deliver. To close, and before I open to questions, I think it was important to give proper evidence to this business.
We are the leader supplier in the world of these critical minerals, high-purity quartz, carbon black, maybe one day tomorrow, lithium. We are key for the energy transition. It's a business that is growing rapidly, and it has not finished its growth and development. The future is ahead of us. It is profitable, and it will contribute to the Imerys value proposition in the future, and that's why we are finger-pointing to this business. Thank you for listening, and we now open to questions.
Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one, one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again. Once again, it's star one and one, if you wish to ask a question. We will now take our first question. Our first question is coming from the line of Sven Edelfelt from ODDO. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you very much. Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for this presentation, and congratulations for this new split. I guess we would more see the potential for the quartz. So I have two questions. My question are about the Quartz Corp. Could we have a bit more flavor on, have an idea of your your volume in the quartz? You mentioned in one of your slides that you're number one or or number two. I just want- would like to to reconcile when compared to Sibelco. I think Sibelco is having an increased capacity, so that would be my second question. Would we have an idea- could we have an idea of your capacity, and would I as well to know if you are expanding capacity as well, like your your competitor? That's it for me. Thank you.
Thank you, Sven. We do not publish volumes. As you rightly say, it's a small market, and therefore, I think we do not want to necessarily to help our competitors. So we will, we will be confidential with volumes are concerned. I think what is important to know is, Sibelco has announced or has published a quite, detailed, image of their business, with the information provided today, I think you can, you can run comparisons. They are slightly bigger than The Quartz Corporation. They are the largest in the world, the number one, so in the end, this might change from application to application. But in general terms, the numbers are there. Sibelco is today the largest, followed right behind by our joint venture. There is a third producer of, of size called Pacific Union in...
Pacific Quartz, sorry, in China, and then few very small ones. So quite consolidated market. In terms of capacity, yes, Sibelco has made clear announcements on their increase. Again, we prefer to do rather than say. As I mentioned, we have been investing since 2 years, and we will see the fruits of the ongoing investments fully, I believe, within the next 1-2 years. For your information, the company is investing EUR 200 million over these periods throughout its plans from the mine, the processing, the treatments, and then processing in Norway. It is the bottlenecking, it is quality, it is R&D, it is logistics. So we are preparing to accompany our end markets and their growth, something that the company can finance easily on its own. So we will follow our customers.
They need us, they want us to follow them, and I'm very glad that our partners at Imerys are very aligned on accompanying this business and securing that our customers are happy with us.
... Okay, thank you. So just to sum up, you have invested over the last two years, and you will get the benefit of your investment in the quartz in the next two years, right?
We have started investing-
Is it the right way to look at it?
Ye- yes.
Okay, thank you.
We have started early enough, and we are still investing to secure the future. Let's say the full appreciation of our efforts will probably come within one, two years, when everything is really implemented. But the growth you see is partly due to more volumes, so we have been debottlenecking. We have been doing better, a better job that made volumes available for the growing market. So it's a continuous process. I would say full impact within one to two years.
Thank you very much, Alessandro.
Thank you. Once again, as a reminder, please press star one and one for a question. We will now take the next question. Next question is coming from the line of Mourad Lahmidi from BNPPE. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning, Alessandro. My question is just on the reporting of the TQC. So I remember that you account for the dividend in the EBITDA, and then the net profit contribution in the EBIT. Is it going to remain that way, or are you going to to amend that? Thank you.
As we have published in the press... Good morning, Mourad, first of all, thank you for the question. As we have published in the press release, and you can see here, you're right, in the joint venture in the past, the share of net income was included in what we call current operating income or EBIT. But in EBITDA, we included the dividends. To do numbers, dividends 2023 were around EUR 50 million. If you look at the net income, was around EUR 80 million. So the net income was slightly higher than dividends, which is normal, especially when the business is growing and is growing fast. The change we will do is around EBITDA. The EBITDA in the future will not include the dividends, but will include the net income.
The same net income we book in in EBIT or in current operating income, we will use it for the EBITDA. Why? The main reason is it gives you a fair image of what the business is doing, because it comes every quarter, it reflects the performance of the business, and therefore you can track it properly. When you use the dividends, they are really disconnected from the business because it's a decision the board takes. We can decide for 5 or 50, today or tomorrow. So I don't think it was a proper way to reflect. If it's a small number, it doesn't matter. But since the Quartz Corp has become a significant pillar for Imerys, we believe that it is much better to give continuity, stability, a real connection to performance, to growth, and that's why we have decided to change.
We have restated the numbers you find in the appendix in the press release. Last year, the definition we had is the one you find in the URD, and what it looks like if you put net income instead of, of dividend. So fundamentally, you report the business inside as before, you do something more, let's say, closer to the business every quarter, and you can really track the performance. And Sébastien, do you want to add something, or you think it is?
No, nothing to add. I think you were very clear.
Okay, thank you.
By the way-
Yes.
Sorry, by the way, Mourad, many companies, and I look at Rio Tinto being a big miner, many companies do the same for the very same reason. It's much better to track performance based on net income than a dividend, which is an arbitrary decision of the board at a certain time. So there are really, most of companies track joint ventures in this way. Sorry, go ahead.
No, no, just a question about operations at the quartz business. Just wondering where you are in terms of capacity utilization in your plant at the moment? And maybe a word on what you expect in terms of expansion. Thank you.
Let me start with the second part. We are expanding. As I said before, we started already a couple of years ago with the easy moves, the bottlenecking improvements in our lines, and onto new lines to follow demand. So we are continuously investing, and I would say for the next two years, I think we are busy. We are at a good capacity level, because the market is growing fast, it requires material. So I would say we are running at very high capacity utilization. But as you can see, we have been growing, and I believe we will grow 2024 as well. And I hope for a few years to come, when all the new investments come on stream.
Okay, thank you. Thank you very much, Alessandro.
Thank you, Mourad.
Thank you. Once again, it's star one and one if you wish to ask a question. We will now take the next question. From the line of Sven Edelfelt from ODDO. Please go ahead. Sven, your line is open. Please go ahead.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yes.
Yeah, hello. Hi. Sorry again. So it's three questions. It's not from my side, it's from Sebastien Ramondiac, who couldn't join the call, just couldn't connect. So, the first question, could you have an idea of a normalized CapEx for the quartz going forward to get to deliver the 7%-10% growth on an annual basis? And then the second question is on the graphite and carbon. How long does it take to cover the cost of capital for this business? So these are the questions, and that's two questions, if I'm not mistaken. And yes, the third question, sorry.
Yeah.
The third question, it's, he would like to better understand why this release has been published today, and why it couldn't wait for the upcoming Q1 results.
Okay, I will let Sébastien answer the one, graphite and carbon. I start with the last-
Please stand by. Your conference will resume shortly.
Hello?
Please remain on the line. Your conference will resume shortly.
Can you hear me while Alessandro is not there?
Yes, we can hear you, sir.
Okay. Yeah, up until he comes back, I can answer or rephrase. So in terms of release today, so yes, the idea was mostly to focus on this new business area and not to be squeezed by time in the normal release of Q1. I think there was no real different rationale than this one. On graphite and carbon, I think you have now that we are increasing the level of visibility on the business, the different elements. You remember that the ballpark number we gave is that for this brownfield CapEx, EUR 1 in investment drives EUR 1 of sales, more or less, when it's at full capacity.
So you see that with the profitability that exceeded 25%, and that we hope down the road actually will take advantage of operational leverage. I think that's a very fast return on investment that we can compile as soon as the business, I would say, normalizes on the upward trends, and that we can use properly the capacity that we have put in place. I will remind that, you know, in 2021, we could have sold way more than what we produced. And now, we are a little bit ahead of the current market need, but with a lot of confidence in terms of our ability to fulfill this new production capacity in the next months and years.
On the last one, on TQC, I don't think we'll give a normalized CapEx number right now. We are still in a business that grows a lot. So it's probably a little bit early with this growing pattern to give normalizing figures. What we'll remind is that right now there is a real good self-funding scheme with the company. So with the return that we have as well, I don't think there is a big risk on the additional investments that have been launched by the company.
Thank you.
Thank you. Can we check if we can hear Alessandro again, please? Alessandro? Alessandro?
Shannon, Shannon, I have a question from Jason, from Bank of America. I will ask the question to Sébastien. The question is: Could you please discuss the scalability of the quartz business? Is there a resource limitation to your ability to continue exponential growth? How should we think about revenue growth rates over the next few years? Is high margin sustainable? A lot of questions that we are not really in a position to answer right now. As you remember, with this specific market, we are very very cautious about any type of direct relationship between sales, margin, and projections. I would say there are two things that we think are the strongest pillars. The underlying demand is important and will continue. That's the first point.
The technology is evolving, but there is a very large confidence that for the foreseeable future, actually, high purity quartz is the key, a key enabler in the latest solar panel technologies. So very confident on that, even though there are some also at the solar panel production level economies of scale that are being made, and also that we can see in the use of ingots, but so very solid goes down the road. And a very unique mine, as we said, both in quality and size. So from this angle, we are really secure about our ability to progressively accompany this growth down the road.
Thank you. We will now take the next question. Next question is coming from the line of Matthias Kubli from Tiger Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I would have two on the carbon graphite, carbon black and graphite, business. Just could you maybe give us some color on your market share and how you stack up against the competition in China, especially since you produce in Europe, and, how you fend off maybe, cheaper Chinese competitors? And, then also, what do you see in the EV market in China, how fast can this bounce back, or, do you see some signs of this normalizing? Thank you.
Good morning, Matthias. Maybe I can-
Sir, I think I'm back.
Okay. So if you got Matthias' questions... Okay.
Yes, I did. And thank you for taking over. There were some technical issues. Yes. The question is simple. We are the largest producer of these additives in the world, and we are the market leader. Then we don't comment on market shares, it's a small market, but our SUPER P Li, the SUPER P Li, sorry, the way we call our product, is the definition of carbon black for conductive additives. That's the way everybody calls the product. Competition is in China, has always been there, it is growing, and is growing as well in quality. But I would say a couple of important topics. First, getting the right level of quality in a constant way is not easy. The technology to produce this carbon black is very unique and proprietary in our case, so a copy and paste will not happen so easy.
Second, as you know well, an approval in the automobile, in the automotive industry does not happen overnight, if ever. So yes, there are cheaper products in the market. Yes, rather than Chinese, there are very aggressive, large competitors. The biggest producer of carbon black for other application is Cabot or Orion, so big listed companies with heavy R&D investments in the industry with great products. So there is competition. Still, we believe we'll be able to defend our market share. Our product will remain the leader in this field, and we are investing as well in R&D and innovation because it's a very dynamic market. The battery of today is very different of the battery of five years ago, and I'm sure in terms of performance, it will be different from the one in five years. Intensity of electricity, rapidity of recharging, and so on and so on.
So you will go more and more towards special products, high purity products. If you look for rapidity, it might be different than durability. So I think having the knowledge to know how the R&D will be key, and we will defend our position going forward. In terms of markets, I think China is the healthiest still. It is not growing as fast as in the past, but the Chinese government has confirmed its subsidies, and is pushing for electrification, which is understandable. They have an advantage compared to the rest of the world. So it is, I think, understandable that they put a lot of effort in this, in this market, in this value chain, which starts with the raw materials, and it ends with the EV car. The rest of the world is slow, has been slower than expected, effectively.
So I would say good news coming from China. We see after this long destocking phase, readjustments of, of inventories, we see finally the business picking up again, and I'm sure driven mostly by China and China exports. China is becoming, has become also a big exporter of EVs. Europe, U.S., has slowed down a bit. I think the adoption will take longer, but I don't doubt, and I don't even think about the 2035 prohibition of selling, combustion, combustion engine. It doesn't matter if it will be confirmed or, or delayed. The trend is launched, cars are becoming cheaper, EVs.... and we all want to decarbonize. So I think it's, it's a matter of, slowdown, hiccups, but the direction, the trend, midterm is, is not at risk. Thank you, Matthias.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Shannon, I have three questions from Aron Ceccarelli, from Berenberg. Alessandro, the first one: may you provide more color around the difference in the manufacturing process between TQC and Chinese producer? First question. Second one: what are the bottleneck from a production technology standpoint that will allow you and Sibelco to grow faster than peers? Third one, on synthetic graphite, what is the competitive advantage of synthetic versus natural graphite? We saw Tesla seeking contracts with natural graphite producers.
Aaron, thank you. We will not disclose our secrets in terms of technology, but anything in general, I think producing a five-nines quartz, so 99.999% is not easy, believe me. And the fact that our own company, TQC, took few years to fine-tune the product to get where we are today, and to get the approval from such a demanding industry like the semiconductor or the photovoltaic industry, is the best proof. So first, you need really a very high purity deposit. And today, I believe the Spruce Pine deposit, which is the basis for the our main competitor production and our production, is probably unique. So you start already with a big, big advantage against any other competitor. Second, you have to process it. And the processing in Drag, Norway, is a very high-tech plant.
So I think the barrier to entry is high. I think our main Japanese, Chinese competitor is sourcing sand everywhere in the world. They are not integrated, they don't have their mine. Not only we have the American, we also some very good deposits in Norway, which is a second advantage, so we are diversified. They have to source, so they are limited by definition, finding the proper, and then, I don't know which kind of process they use, frankly, being a competitor, but what I know is the finished products, our product is top of the class, top of the, yeah, range, as well as our main competitor. We really compete on quality, on service, at a very, very high level.
Having control on your raw materials in Norway and in the United States, we have the levers necessary to grow, because we have our own mine, and I can tell you, we are not limited in terms of reserves for many years to come. So we can invest in our mining activities, we can invest in our processing activities, and we can grow this business with the market. And that's another big advantage compared to a typical competitor, in fact. They don't have the source. And the third on graphite and carbon, let's say, to give you a number, natural graphite costs $1. If you refine it, to use it for batteries in anodes, it might go up to $3 or $4. Our graphite is twice as much. Our graphite, synthetic graphite is not comparable to natural graphite.
The use is not the same. We're talking about an additive of extremely high purity with a specific size and form, compared to a bulk material, natural or synthetically made, that is used for making a big piece, which is the anode. So, when Tesla talks about graphite, normally they talk about the anode, the main raw material. In anode, like lithium would be for the cathode. So two completely different worlds, nothing to do one with the other. So natural graphite competing with synthetic graphite in this application, but it's a different product than ours. I think I answered. Thank you.
Thank you. We will now take the next question. It's coming from the line of Ebrahim Homani from CIC. Please go ahead.
Hello, thank you very much for taking my ques-
We will now take the next question. One moment, please.
Thank you very much.
Next question comes from the line of Jason Fairclough from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Thanks very much for the presentation, folks. I'm just gonna come back to the resource question, and you, you said that there's no limitation here on the resource. Again, you know, I'm trying to think about that in, in the context of the exponential growth, that, that we're seeing here. And, you know, put another way, how much of this is about resource, and how much of it is just being able to supply the product that the market needs now? I mean, is this actually a resource-constrained commodity?
Jason, I will try to answer the complex question. I believe, for the size of this market, in absolute terms, in thousands of tons, still there's more market. The, the quartz or the silica sand market is millions and millions of tons in the world. For this very niche specialty application, we are talking about few tens of thousands of tons. So when you have a silica mine, the tens of thousands of tons are fundamentally small. That's why we are confident to say we will be able to accompany the growth of this market over many years with the reserves we have. So I don't think, it is a resource constraint. It is indirectly because it's so unique, so you cannot use any sand available, but you really have to start with a good raw material.
In this way, you can interpret it a bit resource constraint, because there are not so many deposits that offer to start with such a good purity. But at the end, there will be enough to supply the market going forward, and then processing is a matter of CapEx. So I would say it's easier to implement with a bit of timing to build plants and lines. So that's the way I would see it. So we will be there to accompany this market, if that's the question. We will not make it constraint, and I believe our competitor think the same way.
Okay, that's helpful color. The other question was just back to sort of how you're accounting for for the quartz business, right? And, and you mentioned Rio Tinto as an example. I'm just gonna throw it out there for you. What we do see with some of the big mining companies, is that they will actually give a group revenue number and a group EBITDA number. You know, and ultimately, these are not IFRS measures, but you can define them any way you want. And, and it's really helpful in terms of, you know, thinking about the pieces of businesses that these companies own. So I guess my, my question to you is, you've taken the step of going from dividends to share of net income. Why not show share of revenue and share of EBITDA from from the quartz company, right?
I guess while we're at it, is there any chance that you could buy 1 extra share in the Quartz Company, so you can consolidate it?
Jason, thank you for the question. Number one, I start with the ends. We have built this company together with our partner. We have been loyal to each other for many years, especially when the business was tough, and we're very happy to be their partners. So I think this, this JD is the right thing to do. We are happy to be co-managing it. We have been supportive, each on each side, so I don't see, today, neither the need nor the, the will to, to, to change it. We're very happy and proud. On your, on your first part, I understand what you mean. It is clear. We believe that a disclosure of full revenues, full EBITDA every quarter is not in our interest.
Because the market is so small, I think we would give too much trackability to competitors that we prefer not to do, and therefore, a simplified presentation using the net income, which is a IFRS number, so it's anyway public. We will disclose a complete set of accounts in June and in December, so that you can do exactly what you're saying. You can take our 50% share and consider it as in revenues, in EBITDA, and so on. So it will be very easy to do this exercise if you wish so, but we've taken the decision not to go full scope from day one for confidentiality reasons, very simple. And that's agreed with our partner.
Okay, last question-
You, you will have to wait till June.
Yeah. Okay, fair enough.
Sorry.
Look, last question, if I could. Just, in terms of the margins, I mean, the margins obviously are very high, right? I'm just wondering if there's anything at the moment that is special. You know, and in particular, I'm looking at the net income margin. I mean, have you got a very low tax rate because of some tax loss carry-forwards? Is there any reason we should expect to see that normalize a bit into the medium term?
I would say there are no special items, neither in the U.S. nor in Norway, so it is just business as usual. I think what is unique is the product. It is a great product with great underlying markets that offers an incredible value to our customers. We were capable to increase volumes to the market as well as inadequate pricing. So I think it's just what it is, and it's gonna grow before it goes down, because there are no exceptional items hidden in these numbers. It's just a good business.
Okay, pretty nice business as usual. All right, thanks for the questions.
Thank you.
Thank you. We will now take the next question. Next question comes from the line of Ebrahim Homani from CIC. Please go ahead.
Hello, thank you for taking my question. So maybe one question on the next step to expect. So now maybe the CapEx and the acquisition will be only focused on critical mineral branch. That's my first question. And my second question about the lithium activity. What will be the place of this activity in the new organization of Imerys? Thank you.
I disagree on the first part, Ebrahim. I think Imerys has, as I said, this business represents slightly above EUR 100 million for Imerys, including the 50%, our 50% share in TQC, growing very fast, but it still represents, let's say, 10%-15%. So there is another 85%-90%, which is profitable, and it's our bread and butter. So acquisition will continue, and are currently in discussions for the rest of the business as well. On the contrary, I think this market is very niche, with very few players, so probably not so easy to make big moves. We would love to, in both Graphite & Carbon and quartz, but it's small. So expect acquisitions in the other side as well. In terms of lithium, we have published a sentence in the press release.
We didn't discuss it today in the presentation, but one day, if lithium is up and running and producing, it's a natural housing to put it here, because it's, again, a critical mineral for the energy transition. So potentially one day, yes, we are a few years away from producing and selling lithium, as you know. So for the time being, lithium will be run as a project, under project management, strict overview. You know that we consider inviting a partner. We will need to discuss the proper financing, so we are a bit far away yet from a full integration.
Thank you very much. Maybe one last question about the graphite quality. Is there a big difference between the quality of your assets and the Chinese graphite in terms maybe of efficiency or?
Yes. Definitely, yes. I think the Chinese world has focused on the bulk, on the volume, so the anode material, as I said, everything between $1 and $4 per kilo. There is much less interest to produce niche products with very high purity, different shape, different BET, and so on, that it might cost $6, $7, $8, $10 per kilo easily. So it's a really, I would say we are below the radar screen, if you want to say. So very big difference between the bulk of production in China and our very high specialty.
Okay, thank you.
We are a small part of a huge market. By the way, like in carbon black. Carbon black, the main application, as you know, is for car tires. We're talking about hundreds, if not millions, of tons, and here is a small niche market, very different.
Okay. Very clear. Thank you.
Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the conference back to Alessandro Dazza for closing remarks.
Thank you very much, and I think we took an hour of your Friday morning, and thank you very much for listening. I think it was important, because I believe the value of these businesses was not very clear. I remember the many questions you have posed during our financial results in February, the full year financial results presentation. That's why we thought putting clarity, putting numbers to these businesses, bringing the right organization, will help you understand and value what they represent, what they are, and what they mean for Imerys. And I'm sure more questions will follow, because we are sure these businesses will continue to grow and represent the pillar for the energy transition and for Imerys. Thank you very much, and to all of you, have a good weekend. Bye.
This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.