Okay, good morning everybody, and welcome to this, the 22nd Deutsche Bank Global Consumer Conference. We're delighted this year to welcome over 100 companies to this event, and on behalf of everybody at Deutsche Bank, thank you to all the companies for joining us this year. Paris in the summer with the weather, the culture, the beautiful tennis tournament, and now a city of Champions League winners, it's obviously a good time to be here, and we look forward to hearing from all the companies over the next three days. Unfortunately, one attendee who has not made it due to injury is the CEO of Unilever. As such, the main presentation at 10:30 they were going to give will not now take place. We, of course, wish Fernando a speedy recovery.
I hope everybody has an enjoyable and fruitful few days here, and any issues, please obviously contact anyone from the Deutsche Bank team. We move on now to our first presentation, and there is no better way to start the conference, and I'm delighted to welcome to the stage Nicolas Hieronimus, L'Oréal CEO, and Christophe Babule, L'Oréal CFO. Gentlemen, thank you every time.
Okay, good morning everyone. It's a pleasure to be opening this session. It's early, especially for those traveling from the U.K., where it's an hour earlier, as I was reminding, just walking down the stairs. The best way to wake you up, as always, with L'Oréal is a little video to present the company.
Good morning again. Happy to share with you a few news about L'Oréal. These are the big numbers you saw in the video, so I'm not going to elaborate on this, just to say we are in over 150 countries, EUR 43.5 billion, and we have 90,000 passionate L'Oréalians that are fighting every part of the world to gain market share. Today, in today's presentation, I will show you that we are solid in the current storm, which is, you know, every day is a new surprise, so we're happy to discuss it and to show you that L'Oréal is always solid in every condition. Why we are a truly unique company and why we're fit for these times, and then a few words on the next chapter of the L'Oréal venture, which was already shared in prior conferences. The first point is our solidity in the storm.
It's true that every day we're all following the latest news on what is happening in the West, in the East, sometimes unfortunately in wars, and in that context, the beauty market and L'Oréal are pretty resilient. If I look at the beauty market first, it's clearly a very resilient category. You see here the growth of the beauty market over a long period of time, and as you can see, if you accept the year of COVID when stores were closed, it's always been. The fact is that Christophe is very tall, so he's hiding some of the interesting numbers, so I apologize for that. You see it's been between around 5%-4% over many years. If you look at the 2008-2009 Lehman Brothers crisis, it went down to 3-1, but always positive.
After a year last year at 4.5%, we estimate that the growth of the market this year should be in the area of +4%. It is a very resilient category because it is a very affordable pleasure that people need even more when times are tough. If we look at L'Oréal's performance, as you can see, we have been very significantly outperforming the market. If you take the 2005 and 2000 periods, we are above the market, same for the following couple of years, and 2020 to 2024, we have been growing at an average of 7.8% on the market at 3.7%, which means that our overperformance has increased, particularly in times of deep trouble and also of COVID, where our digital advance was a competitive advantage. If we look at that first quarter, we have kept our course. It was a solid first quarter.
We published a growth of + 3.5, actually because we had inventory building in China because we were moving to our new IT configuration. The actual real net of IT phasing growth was + 2.6, but still overperforming most of our competitors and the market. If we look at the sales by division, you see that our professional products, which published at + 1.6, which was negatively impacted by this IT phasing, was actually more at + 6. Our consumer product division at + 2.3, L'Oréal Luxe, published at + 5.8, but again, they were favored by this IT phasing, and their real growth was close to + 3, and our dermatological beauty division at + 2.7. All four divisions grew, all regions managed to grow, and of course we have this, you know, IT transformation that's blurring a little bit the picture.
We had, by the way, this, you know, EUR 100 million positive effect on our Q1, which would reverse in our Q2, where we'll have a bit more than 100 basis points negative effect of this IT phasing. If I look at L'Oréal in a broad term, I think we're a truly unique company in the world we're living. First of all, and that's something I've shared several times, we are a very multifaceted company. We represent all facets of beauty, but, and we only do beauty, so we are a pure beauty company. We are a luxury company, and sometimes we're classified as part of the big luxury groups, but we're not only a luxury company. It's only, you know, a big third of our business. We're a medical company with the growth of our dermatological beauty division.
We are an FMCG company, having the number two mass player in beauty, and we are also a beauty tech company with more and more tech in our products, in our labs, in our AI, and that makes us, I think, a very unique company. That translates into the balance of our portfolio and the fact that we are really, that's what I call turbulence proof, because we are present in all categories, and probably the highlight of the categories chart is the fact that the fragrance part has increased as the weight of our business now to 14%, and that's been a strong growth in the recent years. We are on all distribution channels, and that's our four divisions. We have e-commerce that represents close to 28% and progressively getting close to 30% of our business, which also allows us to reach deeper and faster in emerging markets.
As you can see, we are in all regions, and now the sum of our emerging markets is broadly the same size as mainland China, which means that we are now much less exposed than we used to be to the whereabouts or the dynamism or lack of dynamism of the Chinese markets. We also have a very broad portfolio of brands. We used to show all these names that you probably know, the 37 international brands plus a fluid local one, and I have tried to do a little exercise just for you, the first time I showed this chart, to see how it is complementary and how it is built.
If you look on that mapping, as all mappings is not perfect, you look at the pricing from the most affordable at the bottom to the most premium at the top, and two, I would say, two different aspects of the world of beauty, the very glamorous side of beauty on one hand, and which is more health-driven, like what you would find with dermatological skincare on the other side. As you can see, the way we build our portfolio, the way we make our acquisitions is meant to occupy as many of these spaces as you can see here, which allows us to adapt to, you know, any changes in purchasing power, in trends, and that's what allows L'Oréal to always overperform the beauty market, and that's how we build our brand portfolio.
One other aspect of the strength of L'Oréal is the combination of scale and agility. Scale because we are by far the biggest beauty player on the market, more than, you know, twice the size of our number two, and that allows us to scale acquisitions. I think the three examples that you see here are very famous for CeraVe, which we took for EUR 140 million to more than EUR 2 billion, EUR 1 billion alone in the U.S.A. Just the two recent licenses that we had started, you know, working on with Valentino and Prada, which were barely in existence when we took them over, both have passed EUR 500 million in just a couple of years.
That's one of the strengths of the L'Oréal machine, if I may call it that way, and that allows us to move from five billionaire brands in 2014 to 12 billionaire brands in 2024, and we have more coming. There are a few, by the way, it's always a nice internal competition about who's going to be the next billionaire at L'Oréal, and we have a couple of contenders for 2025 or 2026. We also scale innovation. We have strong research, you've heard that many times, but that allows us to, when we discover a new molecule like Melasyl, which is probably the most effective anti-dark pigmentation on the age spots on skin we've discovered.
We launched it on La Roche-Posay with Mela B3, which is the purple product on the right or left of the screen, but we've progressively trickled it down to many of the brands of the group, which allows this technology not only to be available at any price point, but also to really amortize the cost of research on multiple brands and gain share in many aspects. On top of these big innovations that are, I would say, designed from the center, we also have complementary local innovations. That's one of our fastest moving products right now in Brazil. It was created for Brazil, in Brazil, but it's so successful that we're going to be running it out not only in the rest of Latin America, but in many countries around the world.
We're also scaling technology, both in terms of innovation, we discussed it, our transformation programs in terms of the leverage of AI with BETiQ, which is our fuel monitoring and programming system, which we are progressively rolling out in all countries, or the new, the first agentic-driven advice machine with Beauty Genius, which has been launched in the U.S.A, over 100,000 consumers, is progressively going to be rolled out in a few other countries. For that, we are in the middle, that's why I apologize for the lack of legibility of some quarters because of this IT transformation.
We are really in the middle of a big transformation under that program that we call One L'Oréal, where it's about really creating a common backbone, which we didn't have, to be honest, in terms of technology, SAP, global data organization for L'Oréal to give us even more scale and protect the agility. We kicked off China, that's the team that created this, that launched this new NEO program in China, and aside from the fact that it bears a cost and it takes a lot of work, it also allows us to accelerate in our shared service centers. We're at the dawn of this transformation, which other companies have done before, but we are doing it now at a time when AI is going to make these service centers even more efficient. We are continuing to cluster our countries.
We've moved in Europe, for example, from 25 countries that we operated independently to eight clusters with only one boss, one leadership team, and that drives a lot of productivity and a lot of efficiency, and that allows us to, you know, gain share in Europe, and Europe has been again the number one growth driver of L'Oréal for the last couple of years. At the same time, we protect our operational agility, so we have a common backbone, but we keep this incredible footprint of distribution centers, factories all around the world, which, again, in a time when there is a lot of geographical uncertainty, geopolitical uncertainty, gives us a lot of flexibility. I just wanted to share with you a few numbers here. Is the how we align production with consumption.
You see the numbers you see here are the percentages of the units we sell in a given region that are manufactured in the same region. It is not necessarily the turnover because luxury is manufactured in Europe and exported, but in terms of numbers of units, you see that the vast majority of the units we sell are actually manufactured in the regions where we sell them. Overall, this agility and scale together give us a lot of financial agility. You see the evolution of our P&L between 2014 and 2024, that is the last decade, and it has clearly been a very virtuous P&L, which has benefited, of course, the results of the company and our shareholders. Probably one last thing that makes us very unique, which we do not often comment, is the quality of our management team.
I've shown you here a very statutory picture of our executive committee. That's the official one. I can't share the ones where we do fun stuff together because that wouldn't be serious enough, but the accumulated experience in beauty of this leadership team is four centuries of beauty knowledge. Myself alone is 38 years, but everybody in this team has been with L'Oréal for a very long time, and as you can see, our top 300 managers have an average tenure at L'Oréal of 19 years, which means that this company is made of beauty experts, people that are loyal and passionate and want to win as a team, and that's what they deliver every year. Now we're about to enter the next chapter of the L'Oréal adventure, which we presented at our financial results.
We said that we are entering a conquest period after, you know, three years where we're carried by the revenge spending post-COVID and then the inflation-driven growth of the market. It's more a penetration and new conquest game right now. Clearly, new geographies, new consumer clusters where we are under-penetrated, and new adjacencies that we are exploring that might become big revenue streams in the future. For geographies, emerging markets are clearly a priority. This is where the middle class is going to be growing the fastest, and that's where we are undershared, even though we are progressing and gaining share in the recent years.
We were underrepresented because the distribution was not favorable, but now with the explosion of e-commerce, which has moved from, in these parts, from 2% of the markets to 13%, still very far from the 34% of the U.S., and e-commerce favors us because it favors our wide assortment. It favors us because we have this incredible digital capacity and knowledge on how to engage consumers, have them try our products online, and that allows us to conquer consumers from deep regions of India or Indonesia or reach every city in Saudi that we couldn't do before.
That is really the beginning of this adventure where, because if I look at our brand portfolio, which you saw on the screen, only a few of our brands, L'Oréal and Garnier, are in 52 countries, but the more you go down, I would stop at EaseUp, but there are many, many brands that are not distributed yet in these regions because they were not right for our business. Of course, new targets, Gen Zs. The future is bright because Gen Zs are crazy about beauty, and the generation below is even crazier, even though we do not sell directly to them. They are in love with beauty, so these people are entering the market, 150 million more in the years to come, and they are absolute beauty addicts, and particularly, it is not only young girls, but young men are absolutely crazy about beauty, which makes male products another opportunity.
They are today less than 10% of the global beauty markets. I'm talking about specific men products, but they use 25% of the products because they use unisex or women's products, but it's still on the half of the population. We have a lot to grow there, and L'Oréal, because of its brand portfolio, has been long underrepresented, but now with brands like CeraVe, La Roche-Posay, EaseUp, or Yves Saint Laurent, we are much better equipped. Another, it's not a new target, I would say, it's an underserved target for us, are the 60 + cohort. They are growing, they are going to be the, you know, the main part of consumption in the developed markets. They are loyal to the legacy brands, as some people call them, and they spend a lot of money on beauty, and you see their average spending compared to other generations.
They have purchasing power, they need beauty, and they will live longer, and that's a very important game-changing part of our business strategically. We have young people that are crazy about beauty, and we have loyal consumers that are going to be living much longer, and we enter this new era, which we call the new paradigm of longevity. It's become an obsession in many parts of the world, in America, but also in Europe. Everybody's taking health supplements. People know they're going to be living until 120 years, potentially, so they have to protect their beauty capital, their skin. They have to invest in themselves, and that's a fantastic opportunity. We have launched a new Absolue Longevity Cream with this device that you see that is quite strange.
I was worried that the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas allows people in store to have an in-depth protein analysis of the actual age of their skin compared to their real age, and I can tell you consumers are crazy about it, and allows us to give a diagnosis of what products they should use, and that drives a lot of new behaviors. Of course, I mentioned supplements. They are becoming part of the beauty routines of many, and we have decided to invest in this field with the first launch with Skin Better Science and more to come on other brands. They are into aesthetics, which is why we have decided to get closer to this field through observations and partnerships.
We're already actually surfing on the aesthetics market with brands like SkinCeuticals and Skin Better Science, which are sold by derms and developed to be synergistic with injections and interventions, and by the way, SkinCeuticals is flying right now, is high double digits, but we're also learning by investment in clinics and by this 10% share in Galderma, which allows us to understand whether this is an area where we want to play deeper because it's clearly a growing market. Finally, beauty devices, which are in the end another way to improve the efficacy of your products. There's the diagnosis we saw with the Beauty Genius from L'Oréal, but the tools we're launching, whether it's AI Pro or ColourSonic, also are also allowing us to valorize and deliver better product efficacy. I will conclude, keep some time for questions.
You've seen we were solid, a pretty unique company as it relates to who we are, the profile of our activity and people, and we have very ambitious conquests coming. We are a company that creates value in the long term. Here, if you look at these numbers between 2019 and 2024, last four years, I think they speak for themselves, plus almost a + 8% CAGR, both in sales and gross profits, margin expansion of 140 basis points, and continuous support behind our brand. Our improvement in profit doesn't come at the expense of the gross fuel, and that shows in these numbers. 2025, we have a grand cru of innovations. As we said, we have this Beauty Stimulus Plan.
A lot of them are going to be entering in Q3 because a lot of things are related to the holiday period, which is where most of the sales are done, but they've already impacted favorably at first half. I couldn't resist with just last week was our worldwide meetings where all the L'Oréaliens of the world come to Paris to be presented their plan for 2026 and 2027.
You will not find on the screens for those tech pictures any scoop on something we are going to be launching next year, but you see the people in the room, and there was a lot of energy, an incredible stream of innovation, a lot of excitement, and brands that are very different from one another, which you saw in the slide, which is in the end the best way to grow the market is to stimulate it with innovation, but make sure you do not speak twice to the same person and have very different brands to do so. We are now in this conquest mode, and we hope to show this and to transform this into great results in 2026, 2027, and beyond. Tom, I am done, and I am ready for your questions.
Okay, fantastic. Thank you very much indeed, Nicolas.
Yeah, thank you.
We have some time for some questions now, and perhaps Nicolas, there is, as you know, a lot of focus on your commentary on market growth, and perhaps please could you expand on your comments on market growth that's focusing a little bit on regions and categories as we go through Q2 into H2. If you see an improvement in the second half of the year for L'Oréal's own growth, do you think that is market growth driven or an increase in the multiplier of L'Oréal relative to the market?
I will try to answer that question.
Obviously, you know, doing predictions, and I know every time we say something about market growth, it's taken very seriously, and it should, but it's very hard to do predictions in this world where, you know, we don't even know what's going to happen on the 9th of July, whether tariffs will be implemented or not, and at what level. That obviously has an impact on consumers' morale and potentially on the business. Overall, we remain confident on the market and on our capacity to outperform it. On the market, because as you've seen on the historical chart, this market has always been growing, you know, every year, even in the worst of the crisis, it's been growing.
The start of the year, and when we said around 4%-4.5% at the beginning of the year, it's basically the average growth of the pre-COVID era, so it doesn't sound impossible. The start of the year has been lower than expected, and particularly in the U.S., where I think there was a lot of consumer uncertainty about what's going to happen to prices, to the economy. The U.S. was lower than expected. China was a bit better or less bad, where everything had become flattish again when it was negative on the later part of last year. Europe remained quite resilient. It has slowed down, but it had already slowed down the second half of last year, and emergings remain robust.
All in all, we think that the second part of the year should accelerate because the comparatives are a bit better, because we hope that the U.S. situation will stabilize. You know, I hate to make comments about one or two weeks, but the last couple of weeks in the U.S. were a bit better. We see some green sprouts, as we see. China remains in the same vein, so it is not a rebound, but it stays a bit more positive than next year. So better comparatives. We, and I guess other brands, have strong plans, and I always remind that beauty is an offer-driven market, and when you come with exciting products, you get the people out there to buy.
All in all, we said, you know, when we presented our Q1 results, that we saw the growth more in the lower end of the 4.5 brackets, and we remain with that perspective, and we'll see what happens. As far as your questions about overperformance, you saw the picture of the team. You referred to PSG, so you don't always win five-nil. I'll take one-nil, but we want to beat the market, and that's what we'll be doing at the end of this year.
Okay, thank you. Perhaps we could dive in a little bit more detail into China, which is obviously a key focus region for many people. Could you perhaps expand on what's happening within the China ecosystem, including travel retail? Where's the highest growth? What's happening to the youth wallet? Is travel retail improving from a sell-out and sell-in perspective?
Perhaps what's happening on the e-commerce platforms and how you're performing on those?
Overall, as I said, the Chinese, let's take first of all mainland China, which has always been our priority. As we've discussed often, travel retail has always been an opportunity, a way to expose our brands, and it has been a very dynamic channel, and it will be back as a dynamic channel. I think it was a bit distorted from its initial purpose. We've always focused on mainland China. That has always been our priority, and making L'Oréal the number one beauty company in China and the number one luxury player there was the priority. The mainland Chinese market was in mid-single digit negative in the second part of last year.
It was almost flat, I think zero minus zero something in the first quarter, and it has remained flattish so far. Right now, we are in the middle of the 618 promotion, which is up to, I would say, a good start, but as they've increased the start a bit sooner, you have a couple of weeks that are comparing to non-promotional weeks, so I'm always very careful. I would say that when I was in China, I'll be back there soon, you see that there is the consumers have not regained the level of confidence they had pre-COVID, but they are still eager to buy some categories like beauty.
What had happened over the last year was the fact that proportionally, the mass market had taken a bigger share versus the luxury market because consumers with less confidence were more, I would say, value-driven than, you know, fully attracted by a luxury brand, which did not prevent, by the way, Yves Saint Laurent to have a very high growth. When we enter the promotional period, such as 6/18, because it is promotional, that is when consumers come back to more luxury. We will see how things unfold until the 18th of June. I would say China is, I would say, on a progressive recovery. I spent a lot of time with local, you know, politicians, mayors, when I was there a couple of weeks ago, and there is a clear determination to boost internal consumption. They want to put the real estate crisis behind.
How long that will take, I don't know, but it's still a country with incredible potential. We only sell 200 million people. The average beauty spend of a Chinese is $80 in beauty when it's $250 in the U.S.. There is potential in China. Short term, I think it's going to be a progressive recovery, and we'll see how it happens on the second part of the year. Of course, W-11 is very big, but I would say we've, I think we've hit the bottom last year, and I think it can only go up from there. Travel retail is another story, and I'll go back to the channels. Travel retail is another story because in reality, in travel retail, you had two markets.
You have the airports, which was the original travel retail, and then there's been this strong development of what has been called downtown shops, which were in Seoul, in Samaritain, in Venice, in Hong Kong, or in Hainan, where Hainan is in the middle of both, where the business was more opportunistic business at low prices, which is the part that had to be controlled. When you look at the business today, this part of the market continues to decline very strongly, and we have good business in the airports. Now, if you take Hainan, which was really a big market, it continues to be negative because you have more travelers, but low conversion. Travel retail will not be a growth engine in the short term. It's still a very, I'm talking in Asia because in Europe and America, it's doing great.
By the way, if there are more tariffs, it will make travel retail in airports even more interesting. In Asia, it remains subdued. We manage our inventory healthily, so it will not be, you know, short term, it will not be a significant growth engine, but the situation is under control and is progressively normalizing. Finally, on the channels, offline, online continues to be dynamic in China. Douyin is continuing to do good, but distributors like JD, who is a great partner of L'Oréal, are having very strong results, and Tmall is trying to fight back, so there are always a few other new channels, but the online is more dynamic than offline in China.
Thank you very much.
Except these upstores that are full of Chinese consumers.
Perhaps switching tack a little, it would be good to talk about returns on A&P within beauty, given how important that is within your cost structure. You put into your presentation, you're the number one advocacy network globally. There are obviously more people allocating more resources to an influencer model on social media, perhaps with some without the same ability to measure the returns potentially as you. What do you see happening to rate costs at various levels in that model? There is sort of a total return. Does an incremental dollar or euro spent on that model reap the same benefit in terms of incremental sales?
First of all, you're right to say that it's both a fundamental driver. It has become, and it's becoming every day more complex.
The good thing is that we have invested in tools to allow us to reduce that complexity and make the daily lives of our marketeers who have to allocate their resources easier. That is why we started that during the COVID lockdown. We started developing that proprietary tool, BETiQ, which really allows us to funnel the investments to, I would say, the best returns. It is not 100% perfect, but we have seen in the first countries where we started rolling it out, 10%-15% and sometimes more improvement on ROI. We feed the machine. It is getting more accurate. It is rolling out in other countries, which does not prevent the change, the fact that we have to be constantly on our toes and to be aware of the evolution. Even you talk about influencers. You have macro influencers, star influencers, and now you have nano influencers and micro influencers.
Depending on the brands and on who you're trying to reach and countries, you would have to play different tactics. It can't be just done by AI. It's really a combination of experience, which is why I highlighted the experience of our teams in beauty in general, of experience and data. I think we are going to see, as I often say, we are going to continue to increase the amount of money we spend behind our brands, all the more as we have new brands to grow. We are going progressively to reduce the percentage points of A&P in our P&L. I mean, if I look at the L'Oréal P&L, we have a very high gross margin. A&P, we can, I think, improve it a little bit through these types of tools.
We have, thanks to the One L'Oréal organization that I briefly commented upon, areas of opportunities in our SG&A, which are where I think we have still some space to deliver more profits. It is always going to be at L'Oréal a combination of growing the top line and the bottom line. It is a growth model, so we are never going to be sacrificing top line growth to bottom line, but we are going to manage our P&L. It is true that it is more complex now with all the news that are coming every day, but we managed to deliver a good profit improvement in 2024. We intend under the stronger and close supervision of Christophe to do so in 2025 too.
Thank you. Maybe this is a question for Christophe as well.
You've obviously had quite a few inventory effects this year in the first half. You've outlined some of those. Are there significant stocking, destocking, restocking, ERP switchover effects in the second half of the year at all?
It's a good question, but this is a key indicator that we monitor region by region in all the big markets. Of course, I'm referring first to the U.S. and China. There are always some movements, but they are related whether because of the phasing of our IT rollout. We have to pipe some stock, and usually it's about three to four weeks, and it's absorbed in two or three months, or when there is a pipe of new launches. Besides those small ups and downs, there is no specific issue about inventories in the trade.
Okay, thank you.
Maybe just a final question is just on a couple of those categories which had and have seen outsized growth just in derma and fragrances. When you look at the growth rate of those categories, how do you feel about those into the second half of the year?
You find my crystal ball. I think that I believe in the continuous dynamism of both. The magnitude of the growth, will fragrance remain at double digit? I'm not sure it was not at double digit in Q1. We intend to try to stay at double digit where it was 14 in Q1. Lots of initiatives. I'm quite confident about this because I was talking about, I'm often asked about why the growth of fragrance, and there are many, many reasons.
One of the interesting reasons is that young men, women too, but the big difference, young men are crazy about fragrances. I do not know if some of you have teenagers at home, but you go, or if you want to go to a Sephora on a Saturday afternoon, you will see 12, 13, 14-year-old boys that are really crazy about fragrances. You on TikTok, it is all they are talking about. Aside from the discovery of fragrances in some regions like China where the category is growing, the valorization where the experts want to go to better grand cru of fragrances, you have a lot of young consumers that are entering this category and want to have several fragrances for different occasions. There will be, I think, continuous growth of fragrances as long as we provide them with the right products at the right price.
As far as derma, this category remains the most dynamic category within skincare because indeed it's both great value for money, it's unisex, it's safe, and that's what people aspire to. We have right now fantastic performance with La Roche-Posay, which we had last year, same for Vichy, SkinCeuticals, and the one brand that had been plateauing for the last, I would say, six months, CeraVe after an incredible ride to reach EUR 2 billion. I was looking at the recent U.S. numbers. The brand starts growing again, not just through its anti-dandruff product, but also through its body line. Overall, it remains, I think dermatology will remain the strongest driver. There's more skin pathologies, there's more exposure to UV rays, and as people live longer, this is skincare and body care is the category that you need until you're very, very old.
I think these two categories will continue to have good performance and, of course, we'll work hard to make sure we outperform it and hopefully we'll do it.
Thank you very much indeed. On behalf of everybody in the room and online, thank you for the candid nature of your answers too. Thank you both very much.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Christophe and Nicolas.
Have a great conference, guys. Thank you.