Hermès International Société en commandite par actions (EPA:RMS)
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Apr 27, 2026, 5:38 PM CET
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Earnings Call: Q4 2023

Feb 9, 2024

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the annual results 2023 of Hermès International. I'm now going to hand over the floor to Axel Dumas and Mr. Éric du Halgouët, CFO. Gentlemen, over to you.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

[Foreing language] Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us for the publication of the 2023 full-year results. We are particularly happy to welcome you once again in our Sèvres store. Thank you to the director of the store. 2023 was an exceptional year for Hermès in an unstable global context. I'm happy to present today yet another year of outstanding results. In a market that is more and more polarized, this performance reflects the solidity of our model of craftsmanship resting upon vertical integration and a strong local territorial base. It testifies to the strong desirability of our creations in all the divisions. This year was marked by the crossing of historical thresholds for Hermès, first going beyond 22,000 employees who make up for the success of Hermès worldwide. I'd like to warmly thank them for their enthusiasm, their creativity, their know-how, and their commitment.

Then the levels of operational investments that accompanied the momentum of Hermès and that have gone beyond EUR 800 million in 2023. Finally, the level of sales, with a continued growth observed year- on- year, reflecting the abundant creativity of our collections, recognizable by their style, their creativity, the excellence of know-how, and by their quality requirement. We've doubled our staff in 10 years, and more than 75% of the job creations have taken place more than 60% of the job creations have taken place in France, where, may I remind you, we manufacture 75% of our items. Hermès has increased its operational investments by EUR 2 billion, of which 60% in France.

It is therefore with confidence that we deal with 2024 despite the geopolitical and economic uncertainties, true to our values, with the will to continue to make our customers dream everywhere and reasserting our commitments in the social and environmental fields. Let us now come to the highlights. Saluting the talent of the creative teams headed by Pierre-Alexis Dumas, give you some examples. In the leather goods collection, alongside the iconic models, the new models have met with great success, such as Arçon, Dell a Cavalleria Élan and the R.M.S s uitcase in the travel field, but also Haut à Courroies proposing different versions. Our collections of women's and men's ready-to-wear have also met with great success everywhere in the world.

In 2023, we are celebrating the very strong momentum of watches and jewelry, with, for example, the H08 Hermès watch, which is today available in different versions, or again, the creations of Pierre Hardy around iconic lines Chaîne d’ancre and Kelly. We're also delighted with the successful launch of perfume Un Jardin à Cythère and Twilly, and also the fifth chapter of beauty, Le Regard Hermès. I would also like to mention the divisions Maison, The H ome, where the textile and furnishings collections have met with great success during the presentation at the Milan Fair, where the Hermès pavilion was visited by over 20,000 people. We are pursuing investments in our production capacity in all the divisions. In 2023, we inaugurated the leather workshops of Louviers in Eure and that of Sormonne in the Ardennes.

The first industrial building in France certified E4C2, a label which evaluates the environmental performance according to the energy consumption and carbon emissions. We've also enlarged the glove workshop in Saint-Junien in the Haute-Vienne. In 2024, we will be opening a new leather workshop in Riom in the Puy-de-Dôme, in the former manufacturing factory of tobacco in the city. The work has pursued in three other sites: L'Isle-d'Espagnac Charente 2025, Loupes Gironde 2026, and Charleville-Mézières Ardennes around 2027, which will add to the nine leather goods workshops spread out over the national territory. Investments in increased production capacity are strengthening all the divisions to accompany the strong growth of the group. I would here like to mention a new printing line for textile in Pierre-Bénite, projects underway in the metal fixtures, but also in perfumes and tableware.

The house has accelerated the vertical integration projects to secure supplies, namely in the divisions of jewelry and shoes, by taking minority shares in some of our historical partners. Hermès maintains longstanding relations with its suppliers and its partners in all the métiers, in all the divisions. We have about 20 years' seniority for the 50 largest partners of Hermès. The house, therefore, contributes to the expansion of sectors of excellence in France. Let us now come to the reintegrated omnichannel and exclusive retail network. Operational investments have continued, getting our collections as close as possible to the local clients with a service offer which is more and more extended by respecting the balances between the different zones.

We've extended our new network with new addresses in the USA, namely in Chicago, which you see here in the photograph, a success, and two new addresses in China, in Zhengzhou and Shanghai Qiantan. In Hermès, each store is a house of objects with a unique architecture, special architectural gestures which combine the identity of Hermès with the local culture and which, thanks to the freedom of purchase of the director of the store, offers a unique assortment. Our e-commerce network has had a solid performance everywhere in the world and pursued its development with the opening of the new platform in Brazil. The success of the collection and our products have led us to strengthen our logistics chain to serve all the stores, including e-commerce. Finally, this year was marked by a strong rebound of travel retail.

The creativity of the house is also expressed through the 17th métier of Hermès, that of communication. In 2023, with the events open to the public all over the world, we wish to tell about the creativity, know-how, and the universe of Hermès. The artisans of Hermès, with the events such as Hermès in the Making, traveled to Lille, Chicago, and Bangkok. The exhibition Héritage, Heritage, dedicated to Hermès's heritage, went to São Paulo. We also wish to have discovered the 16 divisions of Hermès, for example, that of Silk, with the event called Silk Galaxy in London, that of the Home, with the event called Parade, Parade in Seoul that you see on the photograph, and also petit h in Beijing and Osaka. Let me now come to sustainable development.

In 2023, the group remained true to its commitment to sustainable growth, in keeping with our local footprint and a support also for responsible industry. Nature is where our raw materials come from and lies at the heart of our artisan model and therefore our commitment. Climate change, its impact on biodiversity, and protecting raw materials are among our prime concerns. All of this is covered under our climate strategy, our initiative to make the industry more responsible, as well as our policy to preserve natural resources. We continue to assert our attachment to local areas where we operate. Hermès remains true to its commitment of being socially responsible. We sped up job creation with an extra 2,400 people who have been recruited, 1,400 in France.

A bonus of EUR 4,000 was distributed to all employees so as to share the fruits of our growth with those who make up Hermès. There will be a sixth or rather, in June, we announced a sixth free share plan for all employees, so much so that today, 80% of employees are also shareholders, more or less 18,000 people. To support our growth and to train employees to our know-how, we continue to roll out our in-house training programs with eight training schools in France, and the cutting diploma course was launched this year. In 2023, we continue to focus on inclusion and diversity. Hermès currently has 6.85% of employees that are disabled, and that's more than what is required in French law. For Gender Equality Index, we currently stand at 95 out of 100, and we rank fourth in the Women in Executive Position table, the SBF 120.

Our ambitions for the climate are in keeping with COP 21 and our commitment to a trajectory or pathway under 1.5 degrees approved by SBTi. The rollout of our decarbonization plan led to a reduction of 30% of emissions for Scope 1 and 2 compared to the previous year. We offset already 100% of our Scope 1 and 2 emissions since 2019, and these emissions link to transport and high-value environmental and societal programs. We continue also to pay attention to our real estate, and we are going to reduce CO2 emissions during the constructions of new buildings, but also make sure that these buildings are energy efficient. Our commitment to protecting biodiversity remains crucial. In 2023, we joined the Science-Based Targets for Nature program to better protect biodiversity.

Hermès continues with its partnerships, like the one with WWF signed in 2016, or with CDC Biodiversité to analyze the impact of our materials, like silk, for example, the impact of which is very positive with no chemical fertilizers. We remain committed to the sustainability of our products with more than 200,000 repairs, along with our eco-design, reuse, and recycle policy. Hermès has also made progress in non-financial rating once again, in keeping with our commitments and our desire for greater transparency. For example, our AA MSCI rating, our leader position in luxury goods sector, awarded by Sustain alytics. We are also on the CDP A-list. We also received the Award Emploi France for the third time in a row from Humpact and the Grand Prix CAC Large 60 for the Transparency Award that rewards the quality of financial information in regulated publications. And now activities.

In 2023, Hermès had remarkable performance. The sales of 2023 reached EUR 13.4 billion, up by 21% at constant exchange rate and 60% at current exchange rates. All the regions have flagged solid performance with homogeneous growth around 20%, and all the divisions have confirmed a good momentum with a double-digit growth. In the Q4, the sales are of EUR 3.4 billion. Growth of sales in Q4 is slightly higher than that of Q3, +18% as against +16%, and this in most of the regions. Let us have a look at the activity per geographical zone. In 2023, France, +20%, and Europe, excluding France, +20%, registered solid growth thanks to the loyalty of their local customers and the momentum of tourist flows. Japan, +26%, registered a progression of sales that was sustained and regular.

Asia, excluding Japan, +19%, pursued its strong growth with beautiful progression of sales in all the countries of the region despite a high comparison base. Americas, finally, +21% confirmed an excellent performance too. The activity was particularly sustained, namely thanks to the opening up of stores: Naples, Aspen, and Los Angeles, Topanga. Let us now have a look at the distribution per division. In 2023, all the divisions confirmed their solid dynamic: saddlery, leathers, +17%, strong progression. It is based on sustained demand and the increase in production capacity. Clothes and accessories, +28%, pursued its strong growth thanks to the success of the ready-to-wear collections and those of the shoes. Silk and textile, +16%, solid performance around exceptional materials and new production capacity.

Perfume and beauty, +12%, benefiting from the success of the latest creations and the classics of Hermès, as well as the performance of beauty. Watches, +23%, confirms a beautiful performance around unique creativity and exceptional watchmaking know-how for models of complication as well as the iconic models of Hermès. Finally, the other divisions of Hermès, +26%, which include jewelry and the home, are growing. I would here like to mention the Hermès dinner set in porcelain, which draws inspiration from the horse jumping competition. The evolution of the distribution of the divisions reflects the dynamic of clothes and accessories. Leather continues its growth in line with its objectives. I'd like to now give the floor to Éric du Halgouët, the CFO, who will present the results to you.

Éric du Halgouët
CFO, Hermès International

Thank you very much, Axel. Good morning, one and all. The group posted a robust performance in 2023 while reinforcing its investment and speeding up recruitments. The recurring operating income has increased by 20% and net profit by 28%. This graph here captures the speeding up of our revenues' progression and net profit over the last three years. Across the last 10 years, annual average growth rate of our revenue and net profit stand at respectively 14% and 18.5%. The 21% sales increase in 2023 is, like in 2022, extremely positive. It is driven by growth in both volumes and value, with a price effect that was contained at 7%. The negative currency impact on revenue is quite significant and stands at EUR 570 million, driving growth down from 21% to 16%. The gross margin rate is 1.5 percentage points above 2022, and this is mainly due to our currency hedge.

Our production was very high in our production sites, and the take-up ratio was also very high for all divisions, including fashion. Our expenditure for communication reached EUR 260 million for the first half of the year, then exceeded EUR 600 million in the second half of the year because there were more events organized. Administrative costs, so that's the salary of salespeople and people in support functions, and rent, reaches EUR 2.6 billion. The group has reinforced its headcount in distribution to match the increasing footfall in our stores and to support the increase in volumes. Other income and expenses of EUR 889 million are mainly made up of depreciation, intangible and tangible assets, and they also include, for 2023, the free share program distribution for all employees.

Just as a reminder, this is a cost of EUR 60 million; there is also a cost of EUR 60 million, which is the five-year commitment made to the Fondation d'Entreprise Hermès, and that was booked in 2022. The recurring operating income, therefore, stands at EUR 5.7 billion, 20% higher than in 2022. Recurring operating profitability has reached its highest watermark at 42.1% of sales, an outstanding result, 1.6 basis points more than in 2022. The financial result is proceeds of EUR 190 million versus expenses of EUR 62 million in 2022. It includes the currency hedge, the debt on our leases, and the interest income on cash that reached EUR 330 million in 2023 with the increase in interest rates. Tax amounts to EUR 1.6 billion, and our effective tax rate is 27.8% as forecasted in June.

Now, the result for our partner companies reaches EUR 105 million and captures the dynamic business in the Middle East, and our net profit reaches, therefore, EUR 4.3 billion, a 28% increase versus 2022. The increase in recurring operating profitability and cash income allowed us to reach a net profitability of 32%, a record, and a three basis point year-on-year increase. After having invested EUR 250 million in the first half of the year, the group invested EUR 600 million in the second half of the year. Operating investments, therefore, reached a total of EUR 859 million. EUR 258 million were devoted to the renovation and the extension of our distribution network, mainly in Asia, with our projects in Beijing, Wuxi, and Chengdu, as well as in the U.S. with our projects in Chicago and Las Vegas.

392 million were invested to develop our real estate and for the support functions for the different divisions and for logistics. We've also sped up our spending in IT and digital tools. EUR 208 million were devoted to beefing up our production capacity, especially in leather goods, but also in silk and textiles, perfumes, the home department, and watches. Our internal financing capacity stands at EUR 5.1 billion, a 25% increase. After two years of decrease in our working capital requirements to the tune of EUR 400 million, this has led us to a net position of EUR 794 million for 2023. This comes mainly from our stock recovery in the distribution network and the increase in our stocks of raw materials to secure production. After accounting for operational investments and the reimbursement of our debt on leases, our adjusted cash flow stands at EUR 3.2 billion. Financial investments account for EUR 316 million.

That's essentially shares that were bought in partner companies in keeping with our vertical integration strategy. Hermès International has bought back 75,000 shares for a total of EUR 132 million and distributed EUR 1.4 billion of dividends. Our net cash flow increases thereby by EUR 1.4 billion to reach EUR 11.2 billion at the end of 2023. Our cash flow makes up 50% of our assets and equity, more than EUR 15 billion, pretty much 75% of our liabilities. The group, while growing strongly, has consolidated its solid financial foundations to remain independent and deploy its long-term strategy. The ordinary dividend, which needs to be approved by shareholders on 30th April, stands at EUR 15 per share, and a EUR 10 exceptional dividend will also be proposed. Thank you very much for your attention, and I'll give the floor back to Axel for the outlook.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Thank you, Éric. I now come to the outlook of the group that remain unchanged. We pursue our dynamic momentum driven by the enthusiasm of all the teams worldwide. So it's therefore with gratitude that we close 2023. The spirit of the Faubourg will be the theme of this new year. This place, born out of a dream, that of Émile Hermès, is the beating heart of Hermès. It is everywhere where Hermès is and breathes sparkle and joyful spirit into Hermès. We pursue the momentum of job creation, multilocal and multi-division, as well as our investments. We will continue to accompany our suppliers and all our partners. We will also be investing in our retail network, which is omnichannel, with the opening and enlargements of stores such as that of Princeton, Shenzhen, Mexico, and Lille.

We will strengthen the vertical integration upstream and downstream across the board in line with our historical partners in the Middle East. Hermès will become the majority shareholder alongside its historical partner in the retail sales activity situated in UAE. For 2024, the group starts the year with confidence, with its unique corporate model and particularly robust, deployed around our values, that of independence, spirit of enterprise, craftsmanship, and creativity. I would once again like to thank our teams and our clients all over the world.

We are now ready with Éric to answer to your questions. Without going to take the questions from the room, two questions per person, please. We have people online. You can dial star one to ask your question.

Aurélie Husson-Dumoutier
Director of Luxury & Sporting Goods Equity Research, HSBC

Hi, good morning. Aurélie Husson-Dumoutier from HSBC. My first question is about the month of January. Can you tell us about how the year started? I believe that you've increased your prices by 8%-9% in January 2024. Has there been a slowdown in the volumes after this price increase? And secondly, you've clearly overperformed against your peers in 2023. Do you think that it's also down to the fact that you are less exposed to them to the aspirational client category?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Well, that's a lot of questions wrapped up in one. I understand that you have done away with 2023 and looking towards 2024.

Well, look, I don't want to disappoint you, but we can't say much about January 2024, first of all, because I'm quite cagey as a person, but also because the Chinese New Year will not be in February like last year, but January this year. Or rather, sorry, it's the other way around. Okay, well, in any case, the Chinese New Year is not at the same time than last year. It takes place tomorrow. And I apologize because I celebrated the New Year with our Chinese friends when they came over last time. But I mean, there's a lot of uncertainty. As you can see, myself, I'm a little bit lost at the minute. So we will only be able to take stock of the situation at the end of March with all the back and forth and the travels after the Chinese New Year.

Éric du Halgouët will be doing the presentation for the Q1 results, and you'll know more then. Price increase, yes, 8%-9% across January and February. So once again, it's a little bit early in the day to draw any conclusions. Now, regarding our success compared to our competition, I don't know. I'll let you make any comments on that. We always make very high-quality products with outstanding know-how, and that fuels the success of Hermès more generally. I don't want to make any comments on the other maisons out there. We've got another question here. Luca, over to you.

Luca Solca
Managing Director, Sanford C. Bernstein

Just a few words maybe to understand the evolution of the Chinese customers, clients. Several investors have been asking themselves about the Chinese demand in 2024, as well as the situation of the middle class in China where confidence seems to be somewhat low. Second question related to where your stores are in real estate. There seems to be a race to get the most wanted spaces. We've seen purchases of certain premises in the industry. What is your approach, in particular in the city of Paris, which is the capital of luxury in the world and which will soon be having the Olympics as a window onto the world, so to speak? Thank you.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Well, on the Chinese clientele, that's a real subject for the whole industry. May I do some strategy? Maybe that's a bit of a big word, but you'll see the answer is not so strategic.

But anyway, if I say that one of the structural differences in our industry in the 15 years is that people don't necessarily buy according to their income, but according to their wealth. So success or not success of our industry, well, the markets, real estate, stock markets do come into play. And I think that is your comment. We do see that in China there are difficulties of real estate and Shanghai market. So that can sort of have an impact. But I would like us to come out of a Franco-French vision, which is that in the world, there are more and more middle classes that are younger and younger, more and more numerous, and richer and richer, wealthier and wealthier. And that is why we can have these beautiful results that we've had. Because I hear always talk about the difficult economy. We did +20%.

We don't do +20% in a very difficult economy, personally. It's been over 20 years that I've been working in Hermès and over 10 years that I've been heading the group. We've had years that have been more difficult. 2008 was a difficult year. So once we've said this, we remain confident on the Chinese market in the medium and long term. Per quarter, maybe it's more difficult to judge. In my travels, I saw fewer people in some malls with less footfall. Hermès is not the most affected because our customer traffic is more qualified. And I haven't seen any major projects of infrastructure being stopped. So it's amazing to see the number of projects being developed in Shanghai and in other cities. So we are between two things, really. There are fears. Things continue to move, and which direction it'll go.

But I remain confident on the Chinese market. And I must say that the results up until now have shown that there's an attachment of the Chinese customers to our house, to Hermès. As far as real estate is concerned, well, either I reply honestly and I get prices going up, or I don't, and I don't feel right about it. Anyway, so there's a lot of people buying real estate. We're lucky. We like to be sort of offbeat. They buy a lot on the Fifth Avenue. We're not on the Fifth Avenue. They buy a lot on the Champs-Élysées, and we are not on the Champs-Élysées. And then in Paris, we have three stores in Paris. We have the Faubourg that we own, George V that we own, and Sèvres where we receive you, where we are tenants. We'll see. There's no rule, really, on this.

We're opportunistic with Florian Craen because the risk is that we own the walls and then the market changes, and you're so happy with the walls that you own that you remain in your premises. That is what happened in Milan before we moved. But we have very beautiful locations that we own. Rodeo Drive in L.A., Seoul. We were the first, it was the last to be in Dosan Park. And it's a question of finding the right opportunity. And we'll do as best. Okay, we're going to try to alternate left and right. So over to you. And then it'll be to my right.

Antoine Belge
Head of Luxury Goods, BNP Paribas

Good morning, Antoine Belge from BNP Paribas Exane. Two questions on my side. First of all, thank you for talking about the Chinese market. There's another important market, namely the U.S. For other competitors, it seems to be slowing down, but not for you. You've probably been helped in that with the opening of the new stores over there. Could you maybe give us an outlook of the U.S. market? Will there be an impact because of the presidential elections? And then second question on your margin that is at a record high at the moment, but driven by currency impact. So what could be the impact of currency on the operational margin for 2023?

Am I right in saying that there will be some conversely negative effects when it comes to currency? Because currently, you stand at 42, but with a negative currency impact, will there be a downward correction? The turnover, the revenue is higher than what you expected. So the ratio is probably driven up by that as well a little bit. So could there be a negative impact in 2023?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Well, look, thank you very much for your question. Let's start with the U.S. market. As you know, in the life of a company, there is what happens inside the company and outside of the company. I talked about the Chinese market earlier, and I'll talk about the U.S. market right now.

What we currently see is that there is a huge amount of footfall in our stores, although we are not in areas where there are necessarily a lot of potential clients. But we seem to be able to draw them to where we are located with the Madison store, which was a huge investment for us and that continues to show a very healthy dynamic in New York. We've got a new general director in the U.S., and she wanted to show that she was good at doing business. The numbers are really good, and they finished the year really with a very strong performance. We'll see how this pans out for 2024. But there's also all the internal dynamics to take into account. 2023 was a very good year for us in the U.S. in a broader context that remains good.

It's true that, yes, for election years, up until the election, there is some uncertainty. But for the moment, we haven't seen any changes in the trends. It's meant to be a little bit lower up until the elections. Regardless of who is elected, it picks up afterwards because we could always make up for any losses incurred in November, December with the end of the year, end of year events and holidays. Now, for the rest of your question, we are not steering the group with margin in mind. We've never done that. We've never done this on purpose, but this is the way we operate. We have fixed costs, and we were able to overshoot our targets. But we try and manage and steer the group in a conservative financial manner. But we never think about the margin rates. It's often something that we see at the end of the year.

Éric du Halgouët
CFO, Hermès International

And then on your question on currency impact, yes, that drives our profitability up for 2023 because we have an extra profitability point that comes from the currency hedge booked in 2022. On top of this hedge effect, there's the conversion effect that was positive this time around and drove our profitability a little bit higher. So yes, better profitability driven by currency effect. The idea was to reinvest in our information systems, in communication, and in beefing up staff in the different divisions and reinforcing our structure. So yes, profitability driven by currency impacts. In 2024, there is an 8%-9% price increase. And we've remained true to covering our production costs that have increased by 6%. And that's also part of our commitment to our employees.

We wanted to also cover the currency impact that is quite negative. That's an extra cost of EUR 300 million. The price increase covers the extra production costs and the negative currency impact.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Regarding communication, as you can see, we were at 4.5% this year and the year after that. What is specific with Hermès compared to other players is that we invest a lot in client events and much less in press and media events. We do the opposite of what other players in the industry do. But our main communication channel is the client or customer events. We can't invite them every single day of the year. This is why there are some changes from one year to the next. We don't have to invest a lot of money in media and press to drive up our revenue, unlike others.

We're pretty much in keeping with what we've always done. Since COVID, we've multiplied by two our revenue, but we've kept the same ratio. Yes, we have also increased our communication expenditure. We might not all agree on this on ExCo, but there's a lot of communication to do on this side now.

Charles-Louis Scotti
Head of Luxury Goods Equity Research, Kepler Cheuvreux

[Foreign language] Now for Jewelry, bijouterie. You've gone beyond EUR 1 billion with all the different categories of jewelry. Have you gone beyond the number one? Your objective is a phenomenal growth over the last 10 years. Your prospects for the two to three years to come on this market segment. First question. Second question. Second half of 2023, for the first time since 2017, there's a growth of number of employees that was higher than the result. Can you give us the net recruitment? Will there be a moderation of recruitment in 2024 as compared to 2023? Question on dividend, EUR 1 billion on the exceptional dividend. I think it's a bit timid. People were expecting EUR 2 billion. Generally, historically, you've given exceptional dividend every three to four years on an average over the last 10-15 years.

Can we see a shortening in the future of the payment of exceptional dividend? Thank you.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

I won't give you the figures of Jewelry, adding the bijouterie, fancy jewelry. But since I'm nice, I don't need to add all of this to go beyond EUR 1 billion. So indeed, there was a big success of jewelry, bijouterie. I used to head Jewelry. And since I don't head it, it's increased in size marvelously. So I really well salute the teams that are heading it brilliantly. Now, for the recruitment, if you've been following us for a long time, you've seen years where we were recruiting 1,000 people a year. And now, with this size, we're 2,400. It's net. When you say 2,400 people with the departures and retirements, and the gross is higher. And we will continue in this vein in 2024.

There's no idea of slowing down from this point of view. Now, for the dividend, we have the right to have a different opinion than yourself. Sometimes with Éric, we ask ourselves, "We haven't gone too far." So thank you for reassuring us from that point of view. Ever since I've been a CEO for 10 years now, this is the third exceptional dividend. So you might say that isn't every three years. There were years different. Earlier, it was exceptional dividend, EUR 5 per share. We've gone to EUR 10. So we thought that was a gesture that was strong. It is exceptional. I can't say whether it's going to be an exceptional that would be regular because then it would not be exceptional. But I take good note of hoped-for amounts. Olivier, you have the floor.

Olivier Abtan
Managing Director and Senior Partner, AlixPartners

[Foreign language] 2023. We saw the landing for 2023 and that growth rates were a bit slower in luxury. Last year, if I recall, you explained that Hermès were impacted, but a bit later down the road from these market impacts. Do you think that this year there will be a slowdown in sales or not?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Well, first of all, we are going to celebrate this +20% sales increase for 2023. But yes, moving on and looking towards 2024. It's very difficult to speak to the market on these matters. Everything is often blown out of proportions and not interpreted properly. What we are doing, however, is working on an artisanal market. Our production capacity is limited because of the know-how and because of the rare raw materials that we use.

So I've never had in mind this idea of doing +20% in one, two, or 10 years because we want to keep our quality standards. What we have noticed in 2023, and that will help us better understand 2024, I believe, what we saw in 2023 is that a lot of luxury companies had a good year. And for other luxury companies, it was not such a good year. So there seems to be a polarization in our industry, those who are very successful and those less so. And what you call normalization is something that we've benefited from in the past in that whatever you do, whether you make a mistake or not, it ends up working out. So when we do something good, it works out. When we make a mistake, we pay for it. I don't know if you want to call it normalization.

I think that, yes, it's pretty much normal. But I am confident in the group. I'm confident in our clients. And I also look at our teams, and I see a general sense of optimism as they look towards the future. Now, if you've known me for a long time, I am not paranoid at all. So I worry about meeting you, crossing the road, stuff like that. But I'm also a great optimist at heart. I never think that we've won before the battle has started. For me, it's really important to be an attractive and desirable maison. People need to come here and to be excited and happy to buy what we make. And desire is not something that you can measure or forecast for the next couple of years. So each collection, we change all of our carré, all of our ties.

We have no idea whether people will like what we have prepared for them. Do you want an example? No, you want another question? Okay, I'll give you an example anyway. Myself, I am a client of Hermès. I go to the stores. Let's imagine I want to buy some trousers. I try them on. I tell the salesperson, Josselin, for example, "I don't know whether I need these trousers." He says, "Well, don't buy it." We don't come here to buy something that you need, but something that you want. Now, can we excite people's desire? I mean, that's what we try to do. I think one of the ways to be successful is to also bear in mind the fact that it might not work out.

Adrien Duverger
Equity Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

[Foreign language] Adrien Duverger, Goldman Sachs. Two questions, please. The first is concerning the different categories of products. What are the categories where you see more growth coming in the coming years? And concerning the category of beauty products, can you tell us a little more? Is it a product category that allows you to attract new customers as a majority? Or does it allow you to sell new products to your pre-existing clients?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Now, what was not so usual because of COVID and post-COVID? Before the crisis, it was the strongest métier department that could sort of be the amortizing métier, like leather. But amazingly, all the departments worked. I wouldn't be incapable of saying which one. All the métiers, all the departments have a double-digit growth. And I congratulate them.

But I could say that we had incredible results for shoes, incredible one for ready-to-wear, incredible results for jewelry, to take a few examples. But it's incredible to do on leather +17%. So I think that all these departments, all these métiers will continue to grow. The success of Hermès, the incredible success of Hermès with the COVID years. I stay home. I look after my inside of the house. And I didn't know there'd be sales of so many plaids and tableware and so forth. We have a vision in the game theory. I try to put in place the success of each of our departments. And then it is the client who decides. And we were lucky they decided in all the departments, all the métiers. I held the emulation. And we are there to put in place the right conditions.

But we let the market go towards the product today. I was marked personally. I did my first internship in 1988 in Hermès. 53% of the sales was silk and textiles and 9% with leather. Luckily, we continue to recruit artisans and continue to make handbags. So I'm there to put in place the possibilities and the potential of each and everyone. Now, the beauty products, first of all, this is something that we're very attached to and that we did first for two reasons. Strategically, because I think it is important that Hermès perfumes be a three-dimensional brand. And secondly, also to please ourselves. It's a pity not to have color and makeup in a house of colors. And CEO for perfumes, who's at the executive committee, Agnès de Villers, loves the beauty. And so we went into it to please her.

Now, to be sure, we hope to have more customers with beauty than Hermès customers to whom we sell beauty. We want to develop sales perfumes as a result of its distribution network because we have many more stores than our own stores where we sell perfume. There's a larger assortment of customers than a normal Hermès store. So it's new customers, if you like. It's more customers. Maybe all our Hermès customers and others. Thank you. Can we get a microphone to the person here in the back?

Speaker 13

Sorry, I had a microphone previously. So I'll ask my question.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Yes, of course. Go ahead.

Speaker 13

My name is Alexandre from The Financial Times. You said that you're anticipating price increases to the tune of 8%-9% for 2024. It was 7% last year. So my first question is, can you give us a bit more clarity on the segments where price increases will be the highest? Can you tell us more about leather goods, for example? What are you forecasting there? And among your peers, some have said that there are increasing prices but not to the same level. And the price increases for them will be lower in the next few years. What convinced you that you could hike prices? Is it because you have a very high-end client base? Or is there another reason?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Well, I'm glad you took the floor because these are very interesting questions to me. So yes, the price increase is around 8.9%, pretty much 8-9% across the board. It's not one métier, one division that has increased its prices more than another. For prices, I'm going to come up with a broad answer and one that is understandable by all. So what is our MO? The price policy was started out by my mother in the 1980s. And we've always done the same. We use the production costs. And based on that, we decide what the price will be. At The Financial Times, you've probably heard that there is some inflation out there that has been impacting our prices. And then there's also currency effects. We are in the eurozone. And we have 95% of our production in the eurozone.

You know that the yen has lost of its value, likewise for the U.S. dollar. With currency effects and inflation, we have this price increase of 8%-9%. Why are these prices still respected across the world? It's because this price increase is driven for internal and external reasons like currency impact. There is no marketing. There is no desire for us to be more profitable in this price increase. I remember that three years ago, I was extremely proud at this same event. I said, "Our price increase is only 3%-4% because currency exchange was in our favor. And there was very little inflation." I was very proud of that. Then our peers increased their prices much higher than we did. Everybody pointed to me saying that I was not increasing prices high enough.

The share price went down. Johann Rupert said a year ago that we, the maison, increased prices a bit too much. I thought that this was going to be a compliment to me. It was not the case. Now you're saying others are not increasing prices and you are. Once again, I feel that you're pointing the finger at me. So I understand your perspective. You have to accept your karma in life. It seems that price increases or decreases are never seen favorably, at least in my personal case. We've increased prices because production prices have increased. Our margin rate at Hermès is pretty much the same, whether it's a very desirable object or a much less desirable one. So the margin rate remains the same and has remained the same, actually. This is our strategy.

I believe that our clients understand it probably better than financial analysts do.

Zuzanna Pusz
Managing Director and Head of European Luxury Goods, UBS

Thank you for taking my question. Sorry, it's in English. It's Zuzanna Pusz from UBS. I have two questions. First one on actually, both of them are on leather goods. It feels like over the past couple of years, your growth has been a little bit above the usual sort of algorithm of just adding volume and pricing within the leather goods division. I think after COVID, initially, there was a little bit of a pickup in productivity. But it does feel like it seems to continue, which I guess makes us feel like there could be something more to it, perhaps a little bit of a mix effect because when we just look at your product offering, there's been a lot of innovation, lots of great new products.

Would you be able to share with us if this could be the case, if there's an incremental mix effect and what that has been and what that could be going forward? The second question, also sort of related to that, you disclosed the footwear division within ready-to-wear. Would you be able to tell us more or less what percentage of your revenue is footwear right now? It's been quite successful in the last couple of years. It would be useful to know it. Thank you.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

[Foreign language]

Éric du Halgouët
CFO, Hermès International

Yes. Regarding leather, our increase in capacity remains quite stable year-over-year. It's roughly, we say, 6%-7%. So your question is, why did you reach 17% last year? The main reason is that compared to the previous year, 2022, we had a higher productivity because our production activities, we are penalized still by the COVID in 2022. So I would say we have a kind of 2 points, which is exceptional. But we keep the trend. We open 1 new workshop each year, at least, which gives us roughly a 7% capacity increase.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

After, it's something. There is something that needs. It's complicated for you to factor it completely because it's really human-made. So one bag is like 15 hours. So I cannot always tell that at a quarterly presentation. But sometimes, we had bad flu. And for us, it's terrible. And the flu is better the next year. And I have a huge increase for the quarter in productivity at that time. And of course, the flu, it's not something that we control. We do offer free vaccination for the one who want. But apart from that, so it's very. I will say it's very variable because it requires also the spirit of the people. We had a good year in terms of productivity this year, less when people were too stressed in France.

So there is a lot of things that came into this result, which are very human and not totally economic and financial. Where you are right. And this, we don't exactly factor because all our orders, so everything that we sell, is decided by the store. Twice a year, we do the Podium. We just finished it. And we have Florian Craen, who is heading all the retail. They come with their budget. And they buy. So it depends also what they buy. What we see also is that there's been a very good success, of course, of our high-end bags. Catherine Fulconis, who is heading the leather, has created a lot of novelty, as I told, but also a lot of high-end pieces using handcraft, embroidery, and amber. And this has been tremendous success also. So it's true that it's one of our specificities.

If we make very, I will say, simple bags, 15 hours. If we make very complicated, pricey bags, for example, in crocodile, 15 hours. So there is a value effect. And we try to adjust with the capacity of the people to do it because not everybody is able to do very high-end thing. Everybody is progressing. That's why we are able to do more. And the second thing, the availability of the materials. If it's not at the level of the material we want, we don't produce. So that's why it's quite organic. But we've seen, of course, an attraction for the high-end product that we have in jewelry, in shoes. I won't give a percentage. But as jewelry, it's a very high number. And I never work on the shoes business. I'm not the— [Foreign language]

One here. And then this side. Please go ahead.

Aurélie Husson-Dumoutier
Director of Luxury & Sporting Goods Equity Research, HSBC

To react to the prices in China because there's a bit of a deflation there, can you give us an indication on the prices in China?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

No, not really. We don't participate in the deflation, though. It's in the average. And you have to take into account the depreciation of the RMB. So we're slightly above average. We're not deflationists.

Carole Madjo
Head of European Luxury Goods Research, Barclays

Carole Madjo, Barclays, I have two questions. The first, can we come back to the change in structure in the Middle East? Is there a special reason for which now you have a greater share in the region? The prospects are more interesting than some years ago. Second question, similar to the new growth prospects, India, Malaysia, Singapore, are these markets that seem more attractive in the future? Is there something other than China that could be a growth driver in the future?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Well, on the structure in the Middle East, it's been a very long time that we have had strong activity in the Middle East with very good development, with partners with whom we were in joint venture. But we had a minority share, mainly because the law didn't allow us to have a majority share. Now, the laws have changed.

The law has changed, in particular, in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. We, therefore, have taken a majority share. We continue to work with these partners who have great quality. We will take the control. But there's not much change because we were already very much involved in a structure, very well balanced between our partners and ourselves and the teams. This is taking place in a very easy and supple, flexible way. It's more a change from a minority share to a majority share in both cases. We see a great dynamism in the Middle East. This has been going on for the last 10 years. The city of Dubai is performing strongly as a sort of a turning point in the region with a strong momentum.

We hope that it's not because we will deal with it, look after it directly, that it will perform less well. For the other countries, you're totally right. I'll answer to your question on China. But I've really been trying to explain for a very long time that Asia is the general boom of Asia, which is incredible, not just China. Singapore is functioning very well. And we'd be renovating the Takashimaya store. And Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand has an incredible progression. And let's not forget North Asia, Korea, wonderful market, and Japan, of course, if you include it or not in Asia geographically but not in our financial reporting. So there's that strong mass, if you like. India, we've been present for quite some time. We are waiting for the clientele locally to increase. There's a lot of customs duties. So we've got big customers outside of India.

We're going to be opening a third store in India. Let's hope that it'll take time and take off as it should. We already have a very good customer base, namely in Dubai. They come shopping. We always look at the new countries, which are very important. I think we really have to ask ourselves the question, do we need to open a store in a country? We need middle class, the very wealthy classes. They travel all the time. Find them in Miami, Milan, London, Paris. It's when the country reaches it has a sufficiently big middle class to open a store. Today, we see a development of the middle class in India, indeed, and also in other countries of Asia, which allows us to have stores which, with their local clientele, have great dynamism, great momentum. Thank you.

One final question, maybe.

Jie Zhang
Equity Research Analyst, Alphavalue

Jie Zhang from AlphaValue . Thank you very much for taking my question. I only have the one. In Europe, could you maybe give us a bit more color on the tourist versus local clients? Because in Hermès, we see that there is no slowdown compared to your peers, where the slowdown has been quite noticeable.

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Thank you very much. Yes, we did +20%. So yes, indeed, no slowdown for us. There are two issues that are quite conflicted in Europe. First of all, we are very specific in that we have a very strong local client base. We have Italian clients in Italy, German clients in Germany, etc., etc. So the impact of tourist flows is not as important than for our peers. I don't have the numbers for the other companies. But you seem to have them.

What we have noticed is that these local clients have been very good to us, for example, in Nordic countries where there are fewer tourists. We've also seen tourists come to our countries, so high-end tourists that can spend more, on average, than local clients. So that can drive up the dynamism of our sales. So that was, yeah, the trends that came on top of the good success for Europe in 2023. So we've got +20% sales increase, which is something that we haven't seen previously.

Operator

Thank you very much. We're now going to move on to the questions asked online. We've got a question from Thomas Chauvet from Citi.

Thomas Chauvet
Managing Director, Citi

Good morning. I hope that you can hear me. The first question is on the categories where Hermès was very successful, especially recent categories like beauty and jewelry. If you do a five-year forecast and without giving away any secrets, which are the categories that need to be grown? You talked about complexion products, for example. Can you tell us about this and skincare as well products? And since the reopening of countries after COVID, you've seen an increase in the footfall in the stores. I saw it last year in London but also in the renovated stores in Bordeaux. Can you tell us a bit more about the client pathway in these stores? Because we feel that there is always a huge amount of people in the stores. And thirdly, your net cash flow is the highest in the industry, EUR 11 billion, whereas the interest rates will be going down. So how are you going to redeploy cash in years to come? Will it be earmarked towards production or distribution?

Axel Dumas
CEO, Hermès International

Okay. First of all, a word on the categories. Now, we are here to set up the Darwinistic conditions conducive to each métier's growth and to try and meet also some kind of demand from our clients. So I'm expecting growth from all of the different métiers or divisions. Now, for jewelry, I'd just like to remind you that our first line came out in 1918. We created the Chaîne d’ancre in 1937, designed by Mr. Robert Dumas. I'm actually his grandson. So I feel that we are not newcomers when it comes to jewelry. However, it is true that when I started looking at jewelry, we didn't just do silver. We also had some products made of gold, etc. So I'm expecting some progress from jewelry but also from the other divisions. Now, for makeup, this indeed is a recent métier for us.

We have huge expectations for beauty. And as I mentioned, I want us to have a holistic approach and also enter into skincare, to have this three-dimensional approach. For the other métiers, we're a bit more conservative. We want to have complete control of what we do. We do not want to outsource the decoration of a hotel to another player. We are one of the rare companies that do not hand out licenses. So we like to keep control over all of this. There's always someone who tells us it's great. It's great for our clients. Could we have an events agency? We invite our clients. It's always free, which is, I think, good for everyone. We don't have to put a price on all of our brilliant ideas and pass that price on.

Now, for customer service, now, on that matter, you are entirely right. It is a great success. I am quite lucky or maybe unlucky to have Florian Craen, who says that, yes, there are indeed too many clients. Now, I was happy about the fact that there were too many clients. And it's true that we need to improve things in that regard. And that means, first of all, having bigger stores, better-trained salespeople, and more salespeople. But to have more salespeople, we need more square meters as well. So this is one of our objectives with Florian Craen, is to improve the customer service with more training for salespeople, finding also the best people. Because salespeople at Hermès are not just here to sell something. They're here to take the time to tell you the story of Hermès and the different products that we offer.

So that's definitely one of our objectives. And you were also very kind to talk about our stock recovery. Because sometimes, you can't always buy the product that you want because of its success. Florian Craen summed up the situation quite neatly. He said, "If you come to Hermès and you don't know what you want, then we'll definitely find something that you will like. If you're coming for something specific, it's a bit more complicated." And then digital, as Éric says here, we also have our digital selling channel for a lot of métiers. And that has been very successful. And we've seen a lot of progress. Regarding cash, now, that's quite an unpleasant question. Because for years, we had cash that didn't make any money. Now, interest rates are going up. We don't have to beg banks to make money on our cash.

But now, we can make money with our cash flow. But that just goes back to Luca's question. We can buy a flagship without having to borrow from the banks. It means that we can continue with our vertical integration that started in 2023 and that we will continue in 2024. And maybe there'll be an exceptional dividend paid out. Who knows? Well, look, I want us to stick to our financial strategy, which is to not have any debts and to divide up the cash of our company in securities and then in self-financing for our investment. And then the last third for our dividends. And over the last 10 years, we've been managing our cash in that way. And so far, it has worked out quite well and allowed us to be very resilient. At the moment, we are at +20%, which is, of course, great.

Éric du Halgouët is here. I believe that I speak, of course, not only in his name, but I think that everybody is happy. But we also need to be resilient and independent going forward. This independence is extremely important. We've never actually decreased the dividend in our history. Thank you. Thank you. Back in the room for a final question. Zuzanna?

If there is any, don't feel obliged to ask a question. No? Well, all right. Thank you. Thank you very much. It is a real pleasure to receive you every time. We try to give you as precise an image of the house as possible with its parts of shade but which make up for its success and its management as well, which make up for the magic of Hermès. I wish us all 2024 as beautiful and successful as 2023, at least from our point of view. Thank you very much.

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