Séché Environnement SA (EPA:SCHP)
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Earnings Call: H1 2019

Sep 10, 2019

Joël Séché
Chairman of the Board of Directors, Séché Environnement

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. I'd like to welcome you to this meeting presenting our half yearly results at June 30th, 2019. Baptiste Janiaud, Administrative and Financial Director on my right will present the results. Of course, on the left, Manuel Andersen, who's in charge of Investor Relations. All three of us will be available to take your questions after the presentation. Before that, I'd like to say a few words about the financial performance during the first half, and express my confidence in the outlook for 2019 and also beyond. This first half confirms the relevance of our growth strategy. The first half 2019 was characterized, first of all, by a sustained pace of international acquisitions, good level of activity in our core business, and of course, solid operational results. On the international front, Séché took a leading position in South Africa.

Séché strengthened its position in Peru. We established ourselves in Italy. I'll return in a moment to these three acquisitions in terms of business on its historic scope. It achieved quality growth in France as well as internationally. Only our pollution removal activities in France are down over last year, but that's temporary. We're set to make up for that in the second half. We were buoyed by the activity of the circular economy and sustainable development with industrial corporations. Our core customer base industry represents now 80% of our revenue. The operating results demonstrates the good trend of our profitability over the midterm. This high profitability is the reflection our positioning on value added recovery and waste processing, and of course, our innovation capacity, strengthening our activity with clients.

It also reflects the daily work of our teams to boost our productivity and the expected increase in financial results financially now. Séché Environnement confirmed its capacity to generate significant operating free cash flow to fund its acquisitions. We have a solid liquid and flexible balance sheet serving our growth strategy with controlled debt ratios, given the active acquisition policy during the first half. As I recalled earlier, this first half was active in strategic acquisition internationally. The first is the control of Kanay in Peru. It's a company we were minority shareholder since 2015, and we now hold 100%. These companies very active in pollution removal. These are works that are not linear over the year, and the delay in the first half doesn't change our expectations for whole year. This company has a high potential in the processing of hazardous waste, in particular medical waste.

It has international standard equipment to serve the large industrial clients in that country, multinationals who expect an offer with the highest standards. Kanay offers commercial and industrial complementarity with another company called Tares, T-A-R-E-S, which is another subsidiary that we own in Peru. Tares is an active company in the storage of hazardous waste, and we're now going to work to build synergies between those two companies because we own 100% of those two companies. Turning to South Africa, we acquired Interwaste, number 2 in waste management in South Africa. We want to make it a technological and industrial leader in this rapidly growing market and undergoing regulatory change in South Africa. We serve first and foremost industry clients. They're again large international corporations in the mining, commodities, or energy sector. These are customers that we know well.

We want to offer them the best in terms of circular economy solutions and sustainable development in the regulatory context of the South African market that pushes to higher standards and boosting the value added of our business. Interwaste works with large municipalities. This year, we will support it on its major expansion projects, such as, for example, setting up a facility for recovering and processing waste at Mossel Bay. Mossel Bay is right in the south between Port Elizabeth and Cape Town. It's an operation set to get underway in the second half of this year. It should contribute to the growth in activity and results as of 2020. For Interwaste, we want 2019 to be a year of integration and strategic positioning. Its economic and financial performance in the first half reflect a base effect with a first half 2018 that was high.

We're very confident in the ability of Interwaste to replicate in 2019, the performance achieved in 2018. South Africa is, for us, a very promising market. We want to accelerate our growth in these regions in South Africa and in neighboring countries. For that, we've set up a new subsidiary, which will the bridgehead of our operations in southern Africa, Séché South Africa, equipped with human technological and financial resources in order to accelerate our expansion across southern Africa. It's a new subsidiary that will carry forward development plans complementing Interwaste. The third transaction in the first half is the acquisition of a company called Mecomer in Italy. Mecomer is a specialist in hazardous waste, only hazardous in northern Italy, in the Milan region, not far from Salaise.

There again, we're moving closer to industry clients that we know well, in particular, the world of liquid waste from the chemical, pharmaceutical, and energy industry, but also solid waste too. This acquisition is a key milestone to position us as a European player in the circular economy in the market for hazardous waste. Mecomer is a company growing strongly. It's also very profitable. Since the 1st of April, we own 90%. Our partner, Stefano Ferrante, who's the CEO, the son of the founder, continues to be at our side. We're working on accelerating its expansion in northern Italy in synergy with our operations in France. I must say how pleased I am to have achieved these fine transactions that strengthens the positioning of Séché Environnement on international markets that are growing strongly and profitably.

In summary, for this first half, I say that we confirmed our trajectory of sustainable and profitable growth, and that this first half demonstrates our financial solidity with a balance sheet able to carry forward our growth investments and successive acquisitions. In France and internationally, markets have trended well, in particular industrial markets benefiting from an ever-sustained demand for our know-how, in particular in recovery and processing. As I said, pollution removal activities are slightly down versus last year, but we expect to catch up in the second half. Markets with municipalities remain buoyant owing to the regulations linked to the circular economy. In this area, our technological edge in sorting and energy recovery strengthens our activity with clients who are mindful of municipal environment protection. In most of our activities, we've seen growth in volume and price.

In France, these positive commercial effects that are sustainable have strengthened the robustness of our operating margins midterm, even if these margins suffered one-off costs in the first half linked to acquisitions and a significant increase in local taxation. Internationally, the commercial acquisitions in Chile, Mexico confirmed the ramp-up of our subsidiaries in this perimeter, both in terms of business and profitability. I mentioned my confidence in the ability of the scope recently acquired to grow its margins. The operating profitability is trending well across all our scopes in terms of our fundamentals. All in all, we're posting a strong financial structure that is flexible and liquid. Our net debt is under control. Its development represents the funding of our international strategic acquisitions.

On this first half, Séché Environnement confirms its ability to generate free cash flow that is abundant and recurring. Our free cash flow is the cash flow that remains available to fund growth investments, M&A, and dividends. We're in a strong position to continue our selective acquisition strategy in order to prepare for future growth. This strong free cash flow generation will allow us to return rapidly to our objectives of financial leverage of 3x operating income in the middle of the cycle. We have strong financial growth driving our strategy for organic and external growth. Our objectives are fully confirmed for 2019. The year 2019 will be compared in France to a 2018 year that was particularly promising. For the second half of 2019, we anticipate economic performance that confirms that of the first half. In France, we expect financial dynamics to be sustainable.

We expect to return to a high level of activity and service activity, notably pollution removal. Internationally, the scope recently acquired will continue to ramp up. In Peru, Kanay, the new contracts herald strong increase in business in the second half 2019 will allow us to outsource in Peru Kanay performance of the same order of 2018. South Africa, Interwaste is set to see an acceleration in its growth given the startup of industrial contracts that had been delayed from the first quarter. In Italy, Mecomer only contributed one quarter in the first half, is set to continue its strong growth and boost its contribution and performance in the second half. All in all, we're confident in our ability to grow all our results at constant scope in 2019 versus 2018.

We're also confident in our ability to reach, even exceed, this year certain of the economic and financial targets that we set in June 2018 for the year 2020. For this reason, I wanted our new strategic objectives for 2022 be presented in terms of operating and financial performance. This will take place at an Investor Day to be held on December 17th, 2019. Of course, you're all invited. That will confirm our profile of sustainable, profitable, and value creation growth. Over to Baptiste for a more detailed presentation of our business, of our results, of our financial situation at June 30th, 2019. Over to you, Baptiste.

Baptiste Janiaud
Administrative and Financial Director, Séché Environnement

I can't find my pointer, but let me Okay. We're going to be on slide seven, the key figures for first half 2019. Joël said a lot of what I wanted to say, but I'll try to be as clear as I can. There are two problems. First of all, IFRS 16, you know the accounting standards that have to do with operational leases, which to a certain extent are factored into the 2019 figures indicated, but not in the first half 2018, obviously. There are the scope effects that Joël indicated. That is, acquisitions which have an obvious impact on our results, Mecomer, Kanay, and Interwaste. On H1 2019, Kanay in Peru and Interwaste are accounted in H1 2019 at 100%, whereas Mecomer, the results only affect the second half of the half year, of the second quarter, that is.

When we look at the key figures, let's begin with EUR 319.8 million, up 18.8%, contributed revenue strengthened by the international acquisitions over the period. At a constant perimeter, the contributed figure would be EUR 286.6 million, a rise of 3.2%, confirming the organic growth dynamic of our group over in the main markets in France and abroad. In France, an organic growth of 1.3% and abroad organic growth of 18%. A very strong dynamic internationally and a moderate, but nonetheless positive dynamic in France. When it comes to on 31st June 2019, 63.6% is the EBITDA, 63.6 rather. 19.3% of contributed revenue, that's a gross change of +23% over the previous year. That EBITDA was impacted in 2019 by IFRS 16 to the tune of EUR 4.3 million. By the scope variations as well, at a like-for-like basis, an excellent EBITDA for the first half of 2019.

That is up 1.7%. The current operating results, EUR 22.1 million, up 6.9% over the previous year, had a very low impact from IFRS. The net result, net income group share EUR 7.6 million. The H1 2018 was marked by a non-recurrent effect. That is the renunciation by the administration to raise its property tax calculation basis for 2017, 2018. It's EUR 1.8 million that was impacted in positive terms. In S1 2018, given H1 2019 and the non-recurrent elements that have an impact on the first half of 2019, we think that the net income group share will be higher than that of H1 2018, EUR 15.6 million. Free cash flow is up strongly, EUR 35 million. That's operating cash flow after the compulsory expenses such as interest, recurring CapEx, and taxes.

That strong rise shows our ability to manage operations and to define investment on the basis of cash generation. That amount of EUR 35 million shows the capacity to remove debt in the long term. Net banking debt, EUR 390.4 million. You'll find the IFRS amount in our financial reports. This is basically impacted by acquisitions that occurred in the first half of 2019. Much for the key figures. Let us now take a closer look at them. We'll begin with the contributed revenue. Where we break down the contributed revenue, up 19%, we have, first of all, the scope effect EUR 53.2 million. As I said, Mecomer was only consolidated in the second quarter. Up 26% over the second half of 2018. Interwaste EUR 32 million and Kanay EUR 0.9 million. Those are all of the scope effects.

Organic growth of EUR 9 million, which means organic income up by 3.2%. Growth in hazardous and non-hazardous waste. Hazardous waste stream, which represents 56% of the consolidated revenue, up 23% when compared with H1 2018, and at constant scope up 4.5%. That is to say, a very strong dynamic on hazardous waste with industrial markets that are trending well both in volume and price terms. Some of our activities benefited from that, particularly processing, whereas as Joël said, we've observed, when it comes to services, some delays in our projects in France and internationally. When it comes to non-hazardous waste, 35% of the consolidated contributed revenue, we have a growth of 11.9% in published data and organic growth of 1.2%. Of course, we benefited from the regulations on the circular economy that helped to buttress our recovery and processing operations.

We've also seen delays in service activities, particularly depollution, both in hazardous and non-hazardous. When it comes to activities per quarter, slide number nine. You'll find on this slide the quarter-by-quarter development you have in both hazardous and non-hazardous. What's important is that whether it be the first quarter or the second quarter, or be it hazardous or non-hazardous activities, the two streams both contribute to growth. We've observed a solid growth in France and abroad, particularly internationally, within our historic scope, and particularly in hazardous waste, a very dynamic growth. On the following slide, you have the breakdown between France and international, what's interesting to note is that revenue is EUR 80 million in 2019 compared to EUR 31.4 million a year earlier. 24% of revenue in the first half is internationally. It was 11-some % in the previous year.

There's a sharp growth in our international activities due to the scope effects. As we've said, Mecomer at EUR 10 million, strong growth, more than 26% compared to last year. There's a commercial dynamic, which is very strong. We're not drawing all the benefits yet from the synergies between the groups, but we can see a dynamic which is very solid. Interwaste, as we expected, the first half is slightly lower, EUR 32 million when compared with H1 2018. This is marked by a level of activity that was high, but it was particularly high in H1 2018, particularly on specific asbestos contracts that were in H1 2018, and it will be in S2 2019. The asbestos contracts are very important for Interwaste, and they are contributive. They are recurrent. From time to time, the results can be found in H1, and other years in H2.

We think therefore that in 2019, when it comes to Interwaste, the results will be in line with those of 2018 on the basis of the contracts that exist, that have been identified. Kanay, EUR 9 million in revenue. Major delays in particular activities such as depollution. That was offset by the startup in the second half of significant contracts, depollution contracts. In our historical scope, we have a very good level of activities, particularly in Latin America. I would like to mention at least Chile with activities on hazardous waste storage, which was very high in 2019. PCB activity in Mexico with a strong commercial dynamic. chemical cleaning, which was very dynamic in H1 2018, continues to be dynamic this year. In terms of activity, H1 2019's results are in line with those of H1 2018.

When it comes to France, we have a revenue of EUR 249.5 million, up 1.3% over the period. We have activities of energy recovery in non-hazardous waste that are very dynamic and processing activities that benefit from solid industrial markets, with, as I said, a specific delay on service activities. Let me now say a few words about activities, processing and recovery that are contributive, that contribute to revenue growth in H1 2019. Processing activities represent 47.9% of revenue. That growth is 4.1% in a like-for-like basis for the first half of 2019. In France, there are processing activities that are up 1.2% and that benefit from favorable market conditions, particularly when it comes to price, with a good trend in the industrial markets. That performance involves processing volumes that are lower in H1 2019 than in H1 2018. H1 2018 was very dynamic when it comes to processing.

Internationally, as we said, there's still a strong dynamic for commercial conquest, particularly in Latin America. There's a very strong growth in processing activities. When it comes to recovery, there's a rise in energy recovery activities, particularly in non-hazardous. On 31st June 2019, those activities represented 18.3% of the contributed revenue. When it comes to services on a like-for-like basis, it's -4.1%, as I said, mainly due to specific delays in depollution work in France and internationally. The services activities represent 33.7% of contributed revenue. Much for our business. Let me now go on to results and profitability. Let begin with EBITDA up 23%, slide 12. We have an EBITDA, which is on 31st June, EUR 63.6 million. When we break down the main effects, first of all, there's an IFRS 16 effect, EUR 4.3 million. There's a scope effect, EUR 6.6 million, of course, mainly from Interwaste and Mecomer.

When we look at organic growth, we have commercial effects that are positive, a price effect, and a positioning effect on high added-value activities. The reason I make that point is that you can see that we're not just speaking about price rises. Also in the framework of a recovery and the mix of waste and processing, we have more and more high added-value activities, which means that we have the possibility of increasing prices and added value. When we look at those net effects, net of the variable expenses, and for a global analysis of operating margins, we have operating margins at EUR 8.4 million in our historic scope. We have changes in structural costs and various other expenses. There's EUR 7.6 million on the whole, but there are many different things in this EUR 7.6 million.

If you look at fixed charges, fixed expenses, they're not necessarily recurrent. Let me, if I may, give you a detailed breakdown of these different expenses. We have, first of all, the increase in expenses due to property taxes and a specific professional tax for companies. There was a bonus of EUR 4 million in 2018. There is an increase of those expenses in H1 2019, EUR 1.5 million. There's a difference of EUR 2.9 million between the two. All of these additional charges are annual. Even if they're accounted for in the first half, there won't be any change in the second half 2019. That's important to keep in mind. Secondly, specific expenses due to acquisition costs, EUR 1.2 million, which are in fact expenses that are not recurrent, which will help us to prepare for greater profitability tomorrow when we create synergies with our recently acquired activity.

Local restructuring cost to prepare tomorrow's growth for EUR 1.6 million. Joël mentioned the fact that we have an African operation sending expertise to develop our know-how. There are maintenance and repair costs in the first half of 2019 on several incinerators because, as we presented to you during the annual results, a significant stoppage and investments in the Salaise incinerator in Q3, Q4, and of course, maintenance work on the other incinerators during the first half in order to offset the stoppage of Salaise during the second half. Shown here is EBITDA. Here you have a different split, France versus international, with the various impacts by activity. I won't say any more than that at the risk of repeating myself. Let's move straight to Current Operating Income at June 30th, COI EUR 22.1 million. That's 6.7% of contributed revenue.

This increase represents a one-off effect linked to the application of IFRS 16, EUR 2.3 million. Scope effect for EUR 2.7 million, that's the contribution of Kanay, Interwaste, and Mecomer, and this different reflects the increase in comparable EBITDA offset by contributions to amortizations and provisions net of IFRS 16. That's why we indicated both France and international, the amortization linked to IFRS 16. We have additional amortization in France linked to the creation and amortization of storage units at costs higher than previously. When we move down the P&L between operating income and net income, operating income is in line with current operating income. We have a financial expense that is up EUR 6.5 million H1 2018 to EUR 8.4 million this year, EUR 0.5 linked to IFRS. The debt recovery in recently acquired affiliates, that's debt in South Africa and in Peru.

That debt at rates that are very high linked to local interest rates in those countries were closer to 9% interest rates than rates currently practiced in Europe. An increase in the debt cost linked to acquisition, EUR 0.6 million. We note that the average debt maturity went for 3.6 years in June 2018 to six years mid-2019. In terms of corporate tax, we have an IFRS estimated tax of EUR 5 million. This apparent high corporate tax rate for H1 2019 will give rise to optimization going into H2 2019. This brings us to net income group share at EUR 7.6 million for H1 2019. In terms of CapEx, controlled industrial investments in the first half of 2019, we're seeing as regards recurring CapEx that represents 6.1% of contributed revenue versus 7.1% at June 30th, 2018.

This stable level, because we go from 8.2 to 1.2 recurring CapEx to maintain the industrial capability, means that we can redeploy capacity on non-recurring CapEx that create additional value, principally in the treatment activities. The aim being, of course, to improve the operational efficiency of our treatment units so as to improve our availability rate. Improved availability rate means improving the EBITDA of those units. As regards free cash flow, the amount was mentioned. Of course, free cash flow is sharply up, stands at EUR 35 million. That's a cash conversion rate sharply up at 55%, primarily linked to the increase in the EBITDA and good CapEx control, and an improved in working capital requirement linked both to the improvement of receivables in the clients line item, because EUR 5 million linked to the acquisition of Mecomer.

When we complete on net financial debt, as you can see, we go from net financial debt of EUR 317 million to EUR 390 million linked to the free cash flow of EUR 35 million non-recurring CapEx, EUR 9.6 million, and primarily net financial investment, EUR 69 million acquisitions, debt effects in acquired companies of EUR 25.8 million. Turning now to the financial structure, as was mentioned by Joël, it's a key component in terms of credit quality. We have a very good liquidity situation. Cash position EUR 94 million, EUR 289 million liquidity position, very strong liquidity situation. There was a refinancing in May for EUR 84 million at very useful conditions, EUR 80 million at a rate of around 3%, which extended the maturity to 6 years and to no longer have maturing debt in the coming years.

Very positive developments in terms of credit, because as you know, most of the banks in the room today know there was a 5 basis point bonus linked to corporate social responsibility commitments. As of the 1st of July, we benefit from those 5 basis points, given the energy self-sufficiency of the group that goes from 220% to 246%, complying with our biodiversity improvements and improved ESG rating by EthiFinance, an external company. This brings us to financial leverage, which is a key metric for us in terms of financial policy. At 3.2, as I indicated, Mecomer was only included in the second quarter of 2019. It means that if restated, we took into account the results of Mecomer full year, we'd be closer to 3 to 3.1. Our goal is 3 in mid-cycle.

Overall, if and given our expectations, we're fully in line with the ratio cycle target of 3 that we have midterm. Outlook in 2019. I'll be very quick because Joël has described the objectives. We expect organic growth driven by international business with, in France, maintaining a good level of activity. We had activity that was sustained in 2018, so we have a demanding 2018 baseline, but given the way industrial markets are trending, we expect to continue to see modest growth in France, but quality growth. International, we expect the ramp-up of acquisitions to kick in on the scope acquired in 2017. We delivered excellent results into 2018 and H1 2019. We expect to increase, at least continue to maintain this good momentum in Latin America. In chemical cleaning in Spain, we expect a ramp-up as of H2, stemming from recent acquisitions.

For Latin America, a return of Kanay to a level of business in line with 2018. In South Africa, 2019 on a par with 2018. We keep exactly the same target that we indicated for the annual results. 2019 on a par with 2018, and we're currently preparing the next stage for 2020, where in South Africa, all other things being equal, because, of course, there are cyclical effects that can occur. We expect positive growth of operations in South Africa. Rest of the world, as I indicated, in spite of the fact that we have a demanding 2018 baseline, we expect sustained activity in 2019. As regards operating income, well, obviously in France, we have the implementation of the operational efficiency plan. As we indicated at the Investor Day, we'll update you on that at the end of the year at the next Investor Day.

Operational efficiency and cost-reduction policy is a priority. International, we expect a further increase in contribution to operating income and historic scope, plus new scope. Growth, CapEx, this is a slide that we presented. It's an important point on France. Implementation of the operational efficiency plan generates one-off CapEx. The revamping of the Salaise 2 incinerator, that's significant CapEx, EUR 7.7 million in H2. The advantage, that will boost availability rate as of 2020, and that means increased earnings. International significant projects, the first PPP in South Africa was mentioned, EUR 11 million in CapEx 2020, expect to begin in H2 2020. The aim is, of course, to manage our recurring CapEx, so as to have availability on these CapEx that above all create value. In terms of the various targets mentioned mid-year, of course, the targets for 2019 are confirmed.

We're obviously confident in our ability to reach our 2020 targets mentioned at the Investor Day. Further targets will be disclosed to you at the Investor Day in December 2019. These will be targets in terms of business growth and profitability, in 2022. Of course, we're impacted by various factors. The macroeconomic environment today, as I indicated, we're seeing strong industrial markets that makes us confident in 2019. Internationally, we're bound to recognize that it's really a mixed bag. The macro environment was pretty poor, or even very poor in South Africa in the first half. Poor in Peru, but we're managing, as I indicated, to prepare the future and to deliver results. We expect, in spite of a macro environment that's not favorable, to continue to maintain our activity and profitability in those areas.

Growth, I mentioned we expect modest growth in France and strong growth across most international geographies with greater contribution from Interwaste and Kanay. Profitability, the issue is obviously that of industrial efficiency in France and the ramp-up of international subsidiaries in order to grow our results in 2019 as compared to 2018. Cash management is key in terms of financial policy, managing our industrial CapEx, containing those. We're clearly managing, we continue to manage EBITDA minus CapEx with financial leverage target unchanged. That is times three EBITDA mid-cycle. That's to say, when we've integrated our acquisitions. That was the presentation of the results, and we're now happy to take your questions.

Joël Séché
Chairman of the Board of Directors, Séché Environnement

Thank you.

Manuel Andersen
Head of Investor Relations, Séché Environnement

See you on there.

Are there any questions? [Foreign language]. Good morning, Nicolas Houayoh for Saint-Gobain. Three questions. The first of all concerns Mecomer. Can you please tell us what the fundamentals for the strong growth were, which should continue, perhaps not at the same rate in Canada? There's about EUR 1 million in revenue in H1 and more than EUR 10 million in H2 because of a certain volatility. Perhaps a word on Sénerval. Are there any impacts of that acquisition for H2?

On Mecomer, first of all. The activity is very dynamic. It is not linked to volume effects, but rather to the fact that all in all, in Europe, there's a capacity saturation. That's nothing new. The capacity to make rate increases because of the particular expertise of Mecomer, because that's a hazardous waste platform as such.

Baptiste Janiaud
Administrative and Financial Director, Séché Environnement

There are few companies that know how to densify hazardous waste as well as Mecomer does. I said that therefore, it was a very clear commercial dynamic. Today, it's mainly rate increases that Mecomer benefited from. Those are rate increases that we can see in the Italian market in general. On your second question now, depollution activities, because Kanay is mainly impacted by depollution activities, are activities which are cyclical by nature. Depends mainly on the projects proposed by Peruvian industrial partners. There can be a lot of volatility, and historically, Kanay has experienced major volatility. Today in H1, there were only operations proposed by the industrial customers, but there's an increase in activity for this last summer that should have an impact on H2. It all depends on the industrial climate in Peru. Depollution is a spot market. Pollution isn't successive at times.

There's a lot of pollution in a certain place, and then there isn't. We can get several depollution contracts, but that's seldom the case. There's usually a bit of a lag between one depollution project and another, which is the case for H1. On your first point, Sénerval , well, that took place, went very well. The customer and ourselves, we're pleased with the operations. Subjectively, this was an industrial success. Operations since August resumed. The operations were acquired, and this is very effective. What about H2? Would that have an impact? When we restart an incinerator, we're never at the standard level at first. Throughout the period of the time in which the incinerator was stopped, we had an EBITDA and activity that were based on nominal terms. There was a nominative EBITDA that assumed that the incinerator was running 100%.

When we restart an incinerator, we can't run it at a nominal level from the very beginning. Therefore, that restart-up is occurring as per the action plan. Nonetheless, it's a gradual start-up. There should be a slight impact on H2 when compared to H1. The H2 figure would concern real activity, whereas the H1 figure concerned the nominal activity.

Speaker 4

Lance from Finance Connect. When it comes to Sénerval , could you please tell us what its profitability is in H1 so that we can gauge the risk? Can you give us a greater detail, more granularity when it comes to profits and losses of the three acquisitions for the first half year? I have some other questions. Salaise 2 , you said that will have no impact on revenue. The revamping, that is, of the operation will have no impact.

Will it have an impact on COI on operating income? Second, CapEx in South Africa, EUR 11 million for the Eden project. Does that comprised under future debt or miscellaneous debt? You spoke about three times EBITDA. There's an objective, but I'm a bit lost. I'm a bit confused with IFRS. On the one hand, you have an EBITDA, which has a positive impact because of IFRS 16 three times. Is that EBITDA not taking account of IFRS 16 or taking account of IFRS 16? Can you please be a bit more specific?

Baptiste Janiaud
Administrative and Financial Director, Séché Environnement

Let me begin with the last question because it's an important one. We provided that objective of a threefold increase at the last Investor Day without IFRS. The objective, as we said, in terms of guidance, was three times not taking account of IFRS. That's our objective.

For the 4.3 on the first quarter, you multiply that by three and you're not far from the truth. We will, of course, update those objectives in terms of credit at the Investor Day at the end of the year. I think we thought it simpler to give you a guidance on the basis of IFRS because these are published data, that would probably be simpler for you to work with. I say probably because today when we speak about the net banking debt with a financial covenant, that's not taking account of IFRS. Today our documentation is valid until 2023. On that basis, we're speaking about a documentation without IFRS. I just wanted to make that clear. The previous question, South Africa, Eden, that's debt in the IFRS meaning of the terms that will be part of the IFRS debt.

That debt is without recourse when it comes to the parent company, won't have an impact on our financial covenants. Salaise 2. The reason I said what I said was, we think that there will be a moderate impact on our business. Of course, we tried to smooth out the operations over the other incinerators, we think that we will be able to continue to serve our customers, the impact on revenue is low on the whole since we have alternative action plans. When it comes to Kanay, let me be very clear about this. For us, it is a delay. Indeed. There's a delay on the depollution work. We're very active, commercially speaking, in order to offset that in H2. We have a negative result if you look at revenue and structural charges for H1, because we don't have total flexibility.

There are some fixed costs. The result is negative for H1, but we think that we will compensate for that in H2. Seine-Val, we are not used to providing profitability figures per business unit or per subsidiary. Let me put this another way. We think that the impact in terms of profitability will be low in H2 because the ramp-up will occur over H2, and we think it will be fully up to the normative levels by the end of the year. Thank you. Just a word on international activities and acquisitions. Kanay running a loss. If it's EUR 10 million, I imagine that the annual expenses, which is at least EUR 5 million-EUR 6 million. No? EUR 3 million-EUR 4 million? No. Anyway, the loss is EUR 1 million or EUR 2 million with Kanay, no? H1 global.

Speaker 4

All I'm trying to do is to understand what sort of recovery can occur in the second half. If you say you're going to catch up, that means you're going to be very profitable in the second half, right?

Baptiste Janiaud
Administrative and Financial Director, Séché Environnement

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 4

I'm not going to ask you how much. South Africa, you're not profitable in H1?

Baptiste Janiaud
Administrative and Financial Director, Séché Environnement

Yes. The situation is difficult, but I gave you revenue. For us, what's important is to keep up profitability. You know that profitability, EBITDA margin in 2018, well, there was no drop in the EBITDA margin in 2019.

Speaker 4

Well, what was in 2018? Remind me. I think that we already provided that figure. It was slightly lower than 20%. Mecomer, there will be another quarter. Is there going to be exceptional profitability in the second quarter?

Baptiste Janiaud
Administrative and Financial Director, Séché Environnement

I'm not sure I understood your question.

We are only consolidating Mecomer over the second quarter, so therefore, in the second half, you will have one more quarter than in the first half.

Speaker 4

Will there be exceptional profitability in the second or the fourth quarter, the second quarter of the second half?

Well, we think that the commercial dynamic will continue in Mecomer, and therefore its profitability will as well. Thank you.

Manuel Andersen
Head of Investor Relations, Séché Environnement

Any further questions, please?

Speaker 5

Good morning, gentlemen. I'm from Financière d'Uzès. I'm discovering your company, and I have two questions. The first, the share ownership. The shareholder owns 10%. Who's that? ICM.

Joël Séché
Chairman of the Board of Directors, Séché Environnement

ICM is a financial investor from the Mayenne region.

Speaker 5

Okay. Who's a longstanding shareholder and increases his stake from time to time. Who's bought shares in 2019.

Joël Séché
Chairman of the Board of Directors, Séché Environnement

Very good.

Speaker 5

My second question in terms of governance, the board of directors, could you say a few words? How many board members are there? Are there independent board members? Lastly, do you have gender equality, men, women? There are 40% rules to respect.

Joël Séché
Chairman of the Board of Directors, Séché Environnement

Answer, yes. We have 10 board members. Seven are independent. There are four women who sit on the board of directors. Four women out of 10. Plus the employee representative who's a board member. Any further good questions, please?