Good afternoon. This is the conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Saint-Gobain conference call on the acquisition of Bailey in Canada. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions by pressing star one at any time. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Bazin, CEO, and Mr. Sreedhar, CFO. Mr. Rayfield, CEO, North America, please go ahead.
Thank you. Hello, and welcome to our analyst and investor call on the acquisition of the Bailey Group company. I'm with Sreedhar, our CFO, and also I have with me from the U.S., Mark Rayfield, CEO of Saint-Gobain North America. Most of you know Mark well already. I'm very pleased to announce this acquisition, a leader in metal framing solutions in Canada. It is a further step for Saint-Gobain in our profitable growth trajectory in this country and in North America, which has been, as you know, a priority for growth and capital allocation in the last five years, and has proven to be, year after year, a very strong success. I will go on the presentation slide by slide and giving you also the number of the slides. I'm now on slide number two. The strategic rationale of this acquisition is very compelling.
This acquisition is fully aligned with our worldwide leadership in light and sustainable construction. It allows us to enrich our offer of light construction products and better serve our customers. In terms of geography, Bailey will further increase our presence in North America, a key region in terms of growth and profitability, in particular in the growing Canadian construction market. This move is perfectly aligned with the development of our geographic footprint in high-growth regions, which has been one of the two main objectives of our Grow & Impact strategic plan, along with our accelerated move towards construction chemicals. We made last year already close to two-thirds of our operating income in North America, Asia Pacific, and emerging markets. So it is truly a growth-driven acquisition, and I'm very confident it will create significant value for Saint-Gobain shareholders. I now turn to slide number 3.
This acquisition is further reinforcing our strong track record of profitable growth in North America, driven by our successful teams. As you know, CertainTeed offers North America a wide breadth of solutions for both residential and non-residential markets, covering both interior and exterior solutions, an offer which is second to none. The strength of our strategy is demonstrated by strong results, both in top line, 17% annual growth rate since 2019, and EBITDA margin above 20%. CertainTeed is also the preferred brand in North America for contractors and homeowners. As we add to our offer, we add more innovation, better service, and a systems approach to this audience, as they gravitate to more sustainable and reliable solutions. Finally, I'm very confident we can rely on our strong local organization in North America to continue to drive market out performance.
On slide 4, zooming Canada within North America, Canada is a large and growing market where Saint-Gobain is a leader in light and sustainable construction. We have achieved excellent results in 2023. We now have CAD 1.8 billion in sales pro forma after the Kaycan and the Building Products of Canada acquisitions, both in 2022 and 2023, meaning the 32% sales annual growth rate over 5 years and post the Bailey acquisition, we will have tripled our size since 2021. We focus on Canada, since there are strong underlying drivers in this country, a significant structural housing need of more than 5 million units by 2030, according to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. A strong demographic trend, with population growth three times higher than the OECD average, and immigration of more than 400,000 people per year.
The Canadian government is aware of this situation and has set up a national housing strategy, which has multiplied by four the annual housing investment to reach CAD 11 billion in 2024. I was in Canada with all our executive committee two weeks ago, and I can tell you that we have achieved this successful growth by being customer-centric and delivering innovative products, solutions, and also having the right service with fantastic teams. On slide number 5, on the specific metal framing market of Bailey, Saint-Gobain overall is already a leading worldwide player. Indeed, metal frames are key components of light construction. They are used in external walls and partition walls, in suspended ceilings, as well as roofing applications and in complex architectural design systems. Metal frames are part of our Saint-Gobain system approach, as illustrated with this wall system combining many of our solutions.
Metal frames are commonly associated and jointly certified with multi-product systems, bringing strength, fire resistance, and improved acoustic performance, among many other attributes. There is quite a lot of innovation, sometimes patented, in order to improve design, productivity, and ergonomics, thanks to metal frames. We are already selling metal frames in more than half of the Saint-Gobain countries, and in fact, just Interior Solutions. It is common to say that for each $1 of plasterboard, EUR 1 of plasterboard sale, you may have up to 15-20 cents of metal frames. So truly, a very key accessory component of our system approach. Now, turning to slide number 6. Bailey is a perfect fit for Saint-Gobain in Canada.
First of all, we already know them well, very well, since we have entertained a long-standing partnership with them over the last 15 years with our common joint venture, The Grid Company, in ceiling grids. But most importantly, they are a recognized market leader with 75 years of history, and they have a very positive image in Canada, supported by a best-in-class customer service with next-day delivery. Mark will highlight that better than me in a minute. All of this is demonstrated in a strong track record of profitable growth with EBITDA margin at 17.2%. Our North American teams have built strong delivery of the Bailey teams and how also they have grown over the years. The Bailey teams have a very deep connection with both contractors and channel partners at every level of their organization.
They have also built a model based on both innovation and best-in-class service that has allowed them to grow with their customers in the past decade. Culturally, they have the same TEC management philosophy as Saint-Gobain. That means trust, empowerment, and collaboration. This is what we have promoted within Saint-Gobain for the last 5 years. I've personally met several times with the CEO of the Bailey company over the last 10 years, and have a very high respect for what the Bailey teams have accomplished over the years under the leadership of Angelo Sarracini. So now I leave the floor to Mark, our CEO for North America, who has done a terrific job to lead our North American success fee over the years and will drive through more insights. Mark, the floor is yours.
Thank you very much, Benoit. I'm sitting here presently in the Bailey offices in Toronto, where I've had the opportunity to meet the teams this morning, so very excited to be here. On slide 7, these charts illustrate our transformation trajectory step by step over the last few years in Canada, where we acquired Kaycan in 2022, BP of Canada in 2023, and now Bailey in 2024, to continue our growth as a leader in light and sustainable construction with a wide range of interior and exterior solutions, building a strong offer while tripling the size of our business in Canada. Slide 8. As Benoit said, this acquisition is a perfect fit for Saint-Gobain in Canada. As you can see from this picture, Bailey completes our offer for residential and non-residential light construction in Canada.
Bailey solutions for ceilings and plasterboard framing are a good add-on to our gypsum solutions and enable us to offer a high value-added, complete system to our customers and truly be the leader in light and sustainable construction. Slide 9. Also, as Benoit mentioned, we have built over the past years a strong track record in terms of integrations and value creation from acquisitions. The Continental Building Products will create a value in year two, one year ahead of plan, and we are ahead of plan on the synergies for GCP and Kaycan. We are still in the first year of Building Products of Canada, but I can personally tell you that we are on track, and the team dynamic is strong, leveraging our U.S. manufacturing and commercial leadership on roofing, among other things, to bring value and collaboration.
The combination of Saint-Gobain and Bailey will also unleash strong synergies, both operational and commercial. On procurement, Bailey and Kaycan will both benefit from the combined metal procurement capabilities. On operations, Bailey will benefit from Saint-Gobain's world-class manufacturing best practices, and Kaycan and Bailey will both benefit from mutual expertise in metal processing. And finally, this will enable us to better serve our common customers with common distributors and use to market and offer them a full system combining Bailey and Saint-Gobain solutions. As a conclusion for me, I am very confident in the growth of our combined organizations in the coming years, being able to provide a broader systems, deeper innovation, and better servicing our customers. I've had the pleasure of working closely with Angelo and Stuart.
Angelo, who's the president, and Stuart, who's the executive vice president and a member of the family, for the Bailey team over the last five years in our JV board and activity. I'm so excited that they'll be staying to manage the business.... I'm personally impressed with so many aspects of how Bailey built this business. For instance, special orders here in Toronto, received by 4:00 P.M. today, will be delivered downtown Toronto in the morning before any other, before the lights are on in most of the buildings. And this will be special size studs by floor, and they can do this in all the big metropolitan areas before the sun rises.
They have best-in-class machine shops located here that systematically rebuilds their core equipment to customize specifications each year, located to each piece of equipment at a very high quality, meaning they can consistently innovate and match customer needs. I have personally seen, traveling through the plants and spending time with Angelo and the team, the deep connection he has with contractors and distributors and his employees throughout Canada. They're truly the definition of a partner. They're agile, and they appreciate trust, empowerment, and collaboration as part of their culture, and we are really excited to learn from them and grow with them as we move further into systems and solutions in Canada. I'll now hand it over to Sreedhar.
Thank you, Mark. The acquisition of Bailey is value creative, supported by synergies of CAD 26 million, with cost synergies of CAD 21 million and an additional CAD 5 million of EBITDA impact through opportunities to increase sales. These amounts are expected to be secured by year three. Cost synergies, which represent 80% of the total synergies, are expected to be captured through purchasing savings, through Bailey and Kaycan joint capabilities in metal, maximizing our efficiency with industrial performance and supply chain, SG&A reduction through scale effects with our Canadian organization. In addition, we expect synergies with an impact on EBITDA of around CAD 5 million from our enriched offer with the addition of Bailey. These synergies are clearly identified, and we are very confident to secure them smoothly, thanks to great cultural fit between the Bailey and Saint-Gobain teams.
We don't expect any meaningful implementation costs to realize these synergies. Slide 11. Now let's move to the transaction overview. Our offer price implies an enterprise value of CAD 880 million, which means around EUR 600 million, representing nine point six times, that is, of 2023 EBITDA, multiple free synergies. And if you take the post-synergy multiple, it will be seven point five times. The transaction is value creative by year three, meeting our strict financial criteria for any acquisition. The transaction will be fully financed in cash, with 30% of the payment deferred to year three, and will have a very limited impact on our leverage ratio. In terms of the transaction process, the share purchase agreement has been signed after a productive bilateral process with the family.
The management team is fully committed to staying and running the business, as well as achieving the synergies, which Mark mentioned. Closing of the transaction is subject to customary closing conditions. It is expected to close in H2, 2024. I will now pass the floor back to Benoit to make the concluding remarks.
Thank you, Sreedhar. So I go to the last slide on slide number 12. So as a wrap-up, this move is a further step for Saint-Gobain in our profitable growth trajectory in North America with a strong value creation. We add more innovation and a systems approach for our customers in Canada, they move towards more and more sustainable and reliable solutions. The acquisition will also strengthen our group presence and ongoing success in North America. I'm confident that this growth-driven acquisition will certainly create high value for our shareholders. And I must say also, we are very fortunate to have a very solid leadership team in North America, outperforming the markets, both in U.S. and Canada. Mark and his team are committed to the flawless execution of integrating Bailey in Saint-Gobain.
I know the culture fit is extremely strong because we have been long-standing partners, and we are all committed to drive value creation as our team in North America has demonstrated in other transactions over the last four years. So I'm truly here, along with Mark and Sreedhar, to welcome all the teams within Saint-Gobain. So we stop there, and we are now happy to take any questions you may have on this transaction.
This is the conference operator. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions.... The first question is from Ibrahim Omani of CIC. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my question. I have three, if I may. The first one is about the acquisition you made in Canada. You acquired Kaycan, CertainTeed, BPC, GCP, and now Bailey. Which kind of solution you still need to acquire or develop to complete your offer in Canada? And a follow-up question, what's your target, let's say, in five years in terms of sales in Canada, and is this market already consolidated? And my third question may be on the margin dynamic of Bailey. Could we have maybe an idea of the margin last year compared to the EBITDA margin in 2023, and maybe the price and volume effects of Bailey in 2023 compared to 2022?
Okay, great. So I will take the first two, and Sreedhar will take the last one. So I would say with all the moves we have done in a timely manner in Canada, I think we have the right offer both for interior and exterior, and both for residential and non-residential, and within residential, be it single family or multi-family. So I think we have the right offer and, of course, the right size, also the right presence in terms of footprint, coast to coast, in a large country like Canada. That being said, what is very interesting about what we have, now that we have such a critical size, is that you will have specialty products, additional development. I take one example. In Canada, for instance, they just renovated last year the code of energy efficiency.
We used to have a lot of internal insulation, and we are of course a player in internal insulation. We are moving to have external insulation, so that's typically within our category of insulation, which we know well, but adding to it external application. So you can see that it will be further development, more organic growth, innovation, bringing to Canada products that we know well outside Canada and the rest of the world. Another example, Canada is a timber market. We are moving, and we are intrigued by wood fiber insulation. That's clearly also one kind of addition. And if I take siding, as you remember, Kaycan was vinyl siding, metal cladding, so a lot engineered wood, a lot of different product lines.
The growth in Canada in terms of offer will be more towards enriching within the main families of categories that we have already, enriching the offer. If I take metal framing, it's not a product category per se, it's an accessory that goes hand-in-hand with plasterboard. When you sell CAD 0.15-CAD 0.20, each time you sell CAD 1 of the plasterboard. So that's the way we think in terms of Canada, going forward. You know, the target in 5 years from now, it will be a lot driven by organic growth. We are happy to say that, you know, Canada has been a high single digit organic growth over the last years, even a bit higher than that, if I were to take just plasterboard, where we are a strong player.
So that's the kind of organic growth trajectory we expect out of a base, which will be on a pro forma basis, CAD 2.3 billion after Bailey. So leveraging across energy, cross-sellings, et cetera, over the coming years, but more on organic growth now that we have such a good established base. Sreedhar?
So, you know, in terms of margin dynamics, as you have seen in the presentation, we talked about little more than 17% is the EBITDA for 2023. You know, it's. They have a good dynamic. Overall, there is a good, good trend which we see, and especially now with the combination of Saint-Gobain and with all the solutions that we offer, we are very optimistic about their ability to continuously make progress. So we are pretty excited about the evolution of margin and also the ability to get more market share and strengthen the market position.
Thank you very much.
Thank you. So next question.
The next question is from Yassine Touahri of Onfield Investment Research. Please go ahead.
Yes, good afternoon. A few questions. Let me first some question about accounting. I think you're disclosing the EBITDA of EUR 91 million. Do you have a view of what is the operating income or the level of depreciation as a percentage of sales?
Okay.
Then, maybe also, yes.
That is great. To take, please raise all your questions, and we'll take them one by one, Yacine. Thank you.
So on the depreciation.
Okay, so let's answer Yacine-
Around 1, around 1.5% of the sales.
1.5% of sales. And then, a second question on the financing costs. Interest rates have increased a little bit. Do you have a view of how much it could cost you? And then, another question, when you look at this business for 2024, what do you see at the beginning of the year, and what is your feeling about business growth in 2024, in terms of EBITDA and in terms of revenue? It'd be great if you could give us a bit of color on what's happening in Canada. And then, another question, which is sorry.
No, no, go ahead. It's a long list of questions, Yacine. So go ahead, yeah, and we'll take them.
It's also on your strategy. You're in a position where you've got a new exciting business that is quite complementary to your position in Canada. Do you see-
... scope to do something similar in the U.S.? And I see that as well, that you've got some metal panel in Bailey. I think like the insulated panel market has been growing very fast, you know, in Europe and in the U.S. Is it a business that you could consider to enter or not, not that you have a panel business in Canada?
So it's a full strategic review. So we'll, we'll make sure we don't forget the question. So, Sreedhar will take the, the question on the financing, and I will take, the question on, 2024 and, and the strategy going forward, and Mark will also comment about the, the U.S. Sreedhar?
Yeah. So, you know, the group's weighted average cost of capital is around 7%. So that's a nice benchmark to keep in mind when you look at the return on capital employed from this acquisition.
The financing, I think, was also ... You raised a great green bond at 3.5-
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Average eight years, so it was a good financing. And, today, when you put the cash on Treasury, it's even a higher rate than what we... So, you know, low financing costs in the big scheme, that's a good thing. And also, we have seen in our plan that we stayed below the 1.5-2 times debt to EBITDA ratio, even after CSR and after Bailey. So it's very reasonable in terms of leverage. We stay on the low side of the range. In 2024, well, as you know, we will have our Q1 results call by the end of April, so I don't want to highlight anything specific. I can tell you that we have been, over the last years, very confident about the trajectory in North America.
We delivered a good, very good performance last year, both 5% organic growth together in North America, both U.S. and Canada. Bailey, overall, is within this trajectory, so we are confident about the year progressing overall in 2024. We will give you more color about Canada and U.S. in late April, but Bailey is totally in this trajectory. On top of, of course, the midterm goals, which is extremely significant in Canada by 2030. Good start of the year overall for aligned with the end of last year and the full year of 2023 for both Saint-Gobain and also Bailey in Canada. In terms of strategy, you know, we are opportunistic on accessory. Sometimes it's purely a trading activity, sometimes we manufacture.
We have in mind what we do, for instance, in South Africa, what we do in Vietnam. Bailey is a very strong partner that we know well, that have you know leading position in Canada, coast to coast, with a best-in-class service. So this is why it makes sense to combine Bailey and Saint-Gobain in Canada. So that's the strategic rationale of that. It's not always the situation and the same country by country, and I will let Mark elaborate about the US. So we are opportunistic when it makes sense and when it's a perfect fit in terms of having the offer on trading, having the offer on manufacturing, we do it. Bailey is exactly that, and we know them well because they have been a partner for 15 years. So that's the way we look at it.
We don't have in mind, if I take your question on insulated panels, to go in that space at this stage in, in North America or elsewhere in, in the world. We service it a bit, from a stone wool or glass wool output, but not manufacturing insulated panels ourselves, and it's not in the cards in the, in the short term. Maybe, Mark, you, you want to, because indeed, the picture is different between, U.S. and Canada. You want to elaborate on that?
Yes. I think you said it very well about being opportunistic and looking for the proper opportunities by countries. In Canada, as many of you may know, there's a much higher degree of high-rise or mid- to high-rise multifamily building, which is really more driven towards a metal stud manufacturing style of interiors. So it fits much more towards the trends going forward in that market, where a lot of our drywall is used. We know Bailey very well through the Grid Company JV and know that the cultures match extremely well, so that's a key link to looking at acquisitions going forward. We think that there was going to be a move here one way or the other, and we think it's very important for us to be involved in it.
There's different dynamics, much more single family and much different building dynamics, if you will, in the housing market in the US. So that's why this makes perfect sense from a Canadian perspective, but perhaps would not be the same look from a US market.
Thank you very much.
Thank you so much.
The next question is from Arnaud Lehmann of Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Maybe a couple of questions on Bailey, please. Firstly, could you describe the existing relationships between Bailey and your other businesses in Canada? Is it already a supplier to CertainTeed or BPC? And related to that, I'm assuming it's similar customers to your existing business in Canada and similar sales channels. Maybe if you could expand a bit on that, please.
Mark, you take the lead on that?
Sure. So, existing relationship, we've talked a lot about the Grid Company, so that's of course one that you're well aware of, where we have a JV and we jointly manufacture the product, and we sell it through our CertainTeed U.S. and Canadian organizations. The route to markets are very similar, so they go through a very similar group, as well as expanded group of distribution that we use on our interior solutions distributors, as well as some direct-to-contractor business. In the Agway business, it's direct to contractor, and some of the Bailey business direct to contractor, where they have very close relationships. So, we do not buy metal studs from them today, but there is a very common customer overlap and distributor overlap.
Thank you very much.
So that's part, I know of all the same synergies opportunity. If you take the big picture, they are a bit stronger than us on non-residential. We are a bit stronger on residential, and both, of course, take metal frame as part of the interior solutions approach. So that's clearly opportunity to take the strength of each on some applications, and doing that within channels and with distributors or direct contractors that are already current customers. So, that's quite, an easy, I would say, cultural combination and also operational combination on the ground.
So can I follow up on the previous question around why it makes sense in Canada and why, for example, it doesn't make sense in France or Germany or your other large markets to enter metal framing?
It's a good question. It happened that Bailey is a very strong established player in Canada, with a significant presence both geographically, historically, 12 plants, 75 years of history, coast to coast. A savvy delivery, which is second to none. You order abroad, you get delivered in Calgary, in Montreal, in Toronto the next morning. It doesn't exist elsewhere around the world. Metal framing in other countries, we have it in Vietnam, and we have created it from scratch. We do it in India, but in many countries, you don't have such a deep expertise and knowledge. And therefore, you have more, I would say, basic framing of the metal framing, along with your plasterboard, versus having such a competitive advantage.
The only other area, and, you know that we, we are all invited for the July 2nd, the visit in the U.K., is British Gypsum. British Gypsum in the U.K. has driven a very strong partnership on metal frame with a company which is not for sale, and we don't have that in the plan, but it's a very intimate, partnership, where they patent, they certify fire proof system, et cetera, together. So, with the strength of British Gypsum, with the presence, market share in the U.K., that's the kind of expertise and combination that exists in the U.K., which in my mind is similar to what exists in, in Canada. This partner in the U.K. is not for sale. I don't know whether in five years, 10 years, 15, it will be, but they are not.
But that's the kind of unique combination where you can patent, design, provide the certificate, and deliver a best-in-class total system and solution for the contractor. But we'll highlight that when we'll be together in the UK in early July.
Right. So you're not signaling that you're entering metal framing globally and will be proactively looking for acquisition. It sounds more like an opportunistic move for a strong player in a specific market in Canada.
Exactly. Exactly. When you have such a strong player, when you have such a strong fit with your own operations, you know, we have a, a strong plasterboard business in, Canada, like in, the U.K., then it's totally part, a natural part, hand in hand, of the construction system of a country by country, where we promote our teams to look at that as a trading activity. Again, you can manufacture, I mentioned Vietnam as one example, South Africa. And then when you do it well, you could add up to 15-20 cents on the dollar of plasterboard. So you can see that with the same set of people, the same channel, the same distributor, you enhance the added value that you provide and, the share of wallet, the basket of your overall sales activity.
But yes, it's opportunistic, and we take the best player if and where it makes sense.
Very clear. Thank you so much.
The next question is from Gregor Kuglitsch of UBS. Please go ahead.
Oh, hi, good evening. I've got maybe a couple of questions, just maybe for my understanding. How much of the revenues of this business are in the JV that you were referring to? So how much is already kind of what you know out of that CAD 500 million? And then, just to be clear, are you sort of aiming to basically bundle, I don't know, plasterboards with these accessories? And if that's the case, are you essentially replacing another supplier, or is it not the way to think about it, or is it basically externally procured right now, sort of separately by your customers? And then maybe just sort of an overview question on Canada. So now you're at CAD 2.3 billion or something like that, pro forma sales.
What's the margin these days, and perhaps how does that compare to previous journey when you started back in 2021? Kind of give us sort of a direction of what the profitability of Canada is, please. Thank you.
Sure. So Sreedhar will take question number one.
So, you know, in terms of sales, it's very limited, Gregor, because it's very specific to ceiling grids, so it's not a very wide range of arrangement. So-
... it's not very significant when you look at, the sales that they have, which is CAD 532 million, as compared to that, it's very limited.
And then, on, on your second question, you know, today, if I'm a distributor in Toronto or a contractor in, Vancouver, I buy separately. So the idea to cross-sell is exactly the same than what we are doing on other product line. We, we can have a, a better service, one truck delivery, a complete system with the certificate I just mentioned in the question from, from Arnaud. So this is the ability to offer a better service, more innovation. For example, they have patented some clean design, then we can design a full partition with their patented metal frame, plus our festival.
So there are a lot of better service, better innovation, better coverage, of course, on the ground from our sales people that we will push going forward. I take another example. If I take our insulation business five years ago, when we started the journey of Continental in Canada, first of all, has always been a strong position. We are number one in Canada. Insulation was with a distant market share. We doubled our market share in insulation, thanks to the alignment of our offer between gypsum and insulation. So that's the kind of benefit when you provide the two products to the same customer within the same channel. So that the kind of cross-selling activity we will push forward. Mark, do you want to add any color on that?
Yeah, I mean, I think—yes, I think, you know, the benefit is significant to our distributors, our contractors, and end customer. I mean, from a simple thing, as we've discussed on insulation, one call, one order, one place of contact, a salesperson to contact with your issues, which is very meaningful for the full channel going forward. Plus, really, the ability to build an innovative offer for fire systems and sound systems and water systems, so that we can combine the technology and innovation that Bailey has with the technology innovation we have in our drywall product, combined with insulation product, really can add a great amount of value for ease of installation, for resiliency, for warranties, and other aspects.
So we will still be calling on the customers and we both have similar channels, although we have different customers as well. But the real benefit will be for those that have common customers, a single point of contact, the ease of doing business, plus the ability to leverage our two innovations together to give better products to the end customer.
To your last question, sorry, on the trajectory of Canada. So we are at 18% EBITDA margin. Overall, you know, North America tripled the operating income in the last years, and this is what we shared with you during our investor day last September, together with Mark and all the North American team. We had a similar journey in Canada, I would say US is above the 20% EBITDA margin that we have for North America. Canada is slightly below, but that's a very similar trajectory.
Altogether, because we started earlier in the US with acquisitions, Continental, then GCP, we have had a bigger jump so far, but I'm expecting now, when you add together, Kaycan, we're on track and above on synergy, Building Products of Canada for the full year, and now Bailey, then we will re-accelerate again in Canada. But so in the ballpark of times three in profit, like we did for all North America, times three in sales in Canada, and Canada is slightly below US, but altogether a highly relative EBITDA margin for the group.
Thank you very much.
The next question is from Brijesh Siya of HSBC. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, gents. I have a couple as well. First of all, you're talking about the opportunity, and when I look at the synergy gain, which you are putting is around EUR 5 million for sales synergy, which transfers roughly 5%-5.5% of sales, current daily sales. So, with the opportunities you are talking about, looking through the cycle, possibly in 5 years or 6 years' time, could you give us what's the kind of opportunity you are looking in terms of system selling? How much of the kind of the synergies can bring as a group to the group in Canada?
Yeah, correct. So as you know, we are always very cautious on the synergies. We put forward the cost synergy, like yesterday I've done. $5 million is EBIT profit coming from the top line synergy, which is above $20 million. We are putting year three, then I expect that to multiply by three. If I take to, you know, year five, year six, year seven. So it takes, as you know, a bit more time on the growth synergies. We are always a bit on the conservative side on the growth synergy, because we don't factor that in our value creation model. But yes, it's something that will further accelerate after year three. And, and going forward, we expect that to be multiplied significantly, like we have had the experience overall in Canada with cross-selling opportunity in the last years.
Coming to Bailey's end market exposure, you talked about it's slightly more non-residential, slightly less residential. Could you give us a split of how that is looking compared to your North America exposure, half of renovation, around 37%?
Well, as I said, you know, it's a bit more towards non-residential than us. If I take us, you know, it's roughly 80%, if I take all Saint-Gobain Canada on the pro forma, it's close to 80% on residential. Bailey is a bit less than that. They are roughly 50/50 between non-residential and residential. But keep in mind also that within the non-residential, they have a combined picture, and Mark will elaborate, between the high rise multifamily and also some commercial non-residential. So you could say 80% of Saint-Gobain is on residential, 20% commercial, and Bailey is a bit more than that, and is a bit more biased, sorry, towards non-residential.
Mark, maybe you can elaborate on the specificity of the Canadian market with multifamily and the higher stories?
Yes. So, thank you very much. I mean, I think in the Canadian market, we've seen a shift in the last decade, and certainly the last five years, to a much higher degree of multi-story, high-rise residential, particularly in the metro areas, where now it is the majority type of residential building. So when we look at Bailey, we really look at the high-rise level. So even in the residential, they're more in a high-rise residential, which really brings us into an offering that we're not as strong within our exterior product side business, because that's more single family. So it balances off the residential for us quite nicely to give us greater access where we are strong already in plasterboard, but even this will make us even stronger in the growing high-rise residential market.
Understood. And just lastly, on the metal framing, overall, the very offering you have in Canada, and you talked about you have built a business from scratch in Vietnam, and you're offering that in India as well. How different your Vietnam and India offering compared to what Bailey is providing in Canada? And what can you bring and what can you kind of replicate from India and Vietnam to Bailey?
Well, it's a, it's a very interesting question. Of course, we will start that, you know, benchmarking and exchanging within the teams on purchasing, of course, on how we run those lines of metal forming and, metal framing, that, that part of the equation. And we already shared some line speed, productivity, et cetera, per machine, so that will be part of the operational excellence. After that, what is interesting in terms of added value is all the innovation and system. Mark was quick to describe that the vast, vast majority of what Bailey is doing is customized. You know, special order, special size, patented design. So that, that's part of the differentiating factor. This is something we can bring, to countries like India, Vietnam, and also closer to us, to the UK.
Taking all those patterns, those specific design, we have part of that in Vietnam, but this is truly on the top line, on the differentiating factor and added value. This is something we take from Bailey and the UK to our more developing markets such as India, Brazil, and Vietnam.
But then we need to add, Benoit, because it's I mean, I think I'm a bit of a building nerd, but to Benoit's point, you have greater than 70% of the steel studs leaving here being custom length. So when you're building a building in Toronto, your each floor has a different length, each floor has a different height, and these are measured. And so when the delivery gets delivered at 4:00 A.M. tomorrow morning, each floor is cut to size, packaged to that floor, and delivered to the site. So it's not just a standard commodity stud that's being manufactured in different gauges and different specifications based on what floors are being built, whether they require different fire ratings or different load ratings.
So the ability to run that level of custom studs at that level of service is just unparalleled, and it's why this is such a unique opportunity.
Understood. And sorry, one last one, if I may. On, on the metal framing part, I, I understand from you that you were not present in Canada before, and this is probably, Bailey gives you that opportunity. Looking at the metal framing market in Canada, would you say that, Bailey is the number one, and, you do not have any other, competitor who's providing similar system offerings which you are talking about now?
Yeah. Well, it's a strong leader. You know, we will go through the antitrust filing in the coming weeks and months, so I will not comment further on that. But, you know, it's a strong leader, both because of the history, the 75 years in Canada. It's at the very starting point of wallboard and plasterboard in Canada, a very well-known brand, a unique footprint with 12 plants in Canada is something quite unique in order to have the service, same day or overnight delivery that customized, that you heard from Mark. So that makes Bailey extremely attractive. I cannot elaborate more on that, but that's clearly part, of course, of the attractiveness of Bailey going forward.
We are, as you know, the number one building materials player in our end-to-end offer together in Canada. So that will be very good for the service and innovation and the delivery for the customers in Canada. Notably, when you think about the 5 million homes that have to be built, you know, the productivity, the ergonomics, how you train the workforce, how you have special design that are easy to click, all that will be a big, big benefit for Canadian housing and customers.
That's super. Thank you very much.
The next question is from Cedar Ekblom of Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Thanks very much, gentlemen. One clarifying question. Sreedhar, did you say that a third of the cash consideration is only getting paid in year three? And then just in terms of the business itself, is it currently family-owned or are you buying it out of a different owner? And then can you just talk about how the deal sort of arose? Did you approach Bailey, you know, to talk about an acquisition or what actually caused this to happen now? Thank you.
I would take the question number 3, and Sreedhar will take. You know, this family is the third generation in the business that they have built over the years. We have, and Mark notably, have established a very strong, intimate, and deep relationship with them over the last years of the JV. As you know, Mark, before being the head of CertainTeed, had been within CertainTeed in different business organizations and was very instrumental in this JV, its infancy. When they decided that they have no successor and it was time for them to sell the business, they naturally approached us because of the cultural fit, because the respect I think we have earned in terms of how we operate, in terms of values, in terms of culture, and also in terms of trajectory in Canada.
We discussed. Mark started the discussions. I was part of that discussion last summer, so it was a bilateral discussion, taking into consideration the fact that after three generations, the owners wanted to find a final good home for the company. And indeed, they were 100% family-owned until now.
Yeah. So, you know, for that, I said 30% of the payment is deferred to the year 3.
Mark, you want to elaborate more on the long-term relationship or discussions you have with Angelo, and also the fact, which is, I think, extremely valuable, the fact that they will continue to run wi th Petit, the business they inform on, which is to your credit, Mark, if you want to elaborate?
Yes. No, no, I think you said it very well. We've had a very close relationship. We work closely with them, to the good company. And I think it was always clear that if someday the family decided they would like to exit the business, that we would certainly be one of their first calls, and we were fortunate enough to be that call. We worked with the family on a bilateral basis. It was important to us that they stay on to run the business. We think they do a spectacular job. They know the industry very well. They have a deep talent base below Stuart and Angelo that are running the various businesses as well. We think there's incredible opportunity for joint collaboration as we do this going forward.
It became a very productive bilateral discussion that took place over the past number of months, culminating in the signing this morning. So it was always, I think, important to us that should they decide to change the ownership structure, that we would be a call, and our relationship got us that call.
Thanks so much.
Great. Thanks so much.
Thank you, Sreedhar. I don't think we have any more questions, if I'm correct on my screen. Any more question in the group, or?
Gentlemen, there are no more questions registered at this time.
Well, thank you very much to all of you. As you know, we have our first quarter sales call on April 25. Obviously, I think at some point after the fantastic trip we had in the U.S. last September, all the other trip to Canada one day, so we'll make sure we do that in the spring or in the summer, and good weather condition. But thank you very much for your time tonight. Thank you, Mark, out of Canada, and I wish you a great evening. Thank you very much. Goodbye.