Good morning. This is the conference operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Saint-Gobain acquisition of Fosroc, a leader in construction chemicals, conference call. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions by pressing star and one at any time. Our hosts today are Mr. Benoit Bazin, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Sreedhar, CFO; and Mr. Thierry Bernard, CEO of Construction Chemicals. Gentlemen, you have the floor.
Thank you. Hello and welcome to our analysts' and investors' call on the acquisition of Fosroc. So I have with me Sreedhar, our Group CFO, and Thierry Bernard, CEO of Construction Chemicals, who most of you have met during our Investors' Day on Construction Chemicals last November. As you know, Thierry is the former CEO of Chryso that he has developed very successfully over many years, integrated well into Saint-Gobain, and combined it successfully with GCP. I'm very pleased to announce the signing of a definitive agreement to acquire Fosroc, a leader in construction chemicals, notably in India and the Middle East. This acquisition will constitute a further step in Saint-Gobain's strategic growth in construction chemicals. As you know, one of our two priorities for growth and capital allocation in the past five years, along with geographic development in high-growth regions.
I think all of you have the slideshow, so I will refer to the slide number and go for one now. So I'm now on slide number two. The acquisition rationale is simple and very compelling. Fosroc is indeed the ideal next step to strengthen Saint-Gobain's global construction chemicals platform. Five key points for you to take away. 1st, Fosroc is another important step in our strategic growth trajectory in construction chemicals, a fast-growing market that is crucial for the sustainable construction industry. 2nd, its geographic profile strengthens the group's presence in high-growth energy markets, mainly India and the Middle East. 3rd, its solution portfolio will reinforce Saint-Gobain's existing offerings and bring along a leading and well-known brand with strong technical competency. 4th, Fosroc has a strong track record of profitable growth, outperforming its markets.
And finally, the integration of Fosroc will unlock significant synergies, hence securing strong value creation for Saint-Gobain's shareholders and customers. As you see, Fosroc does tick both boxes of our strategic priorities in one go: high-growth regions and construction chemicals. I move now to slide number three. I would like to come back on Saint-Gobain's journey in construction chemicals that has sharply accelerated in the last three years with strategic acquisitions. I'm also expanding in terms of technicity, technology, and high-value offer. 1st, the big move of Chryso in 2021, a strong and innovative leader in concrete admixtures with very well-structured leading positions in Europe, Turkey, and Africa. 2nd, GCP in 2022, strengthening our portfolio in cement additives, high-performance membranes, and injection solutions, and with a geographic complementary footprint with strong positions in the Americas, both North and Latin America, and Asia-Pacific.
Very soon, Fosroc, the third step, with a comprehensive portfolio across construction chemical solutions and strong positions in fast-growing India, the Middle East, and Asia-Pacific. With these three acquisitions, Saint-Gobain is building a strong construction chemical growth platform, both global in geographic scope and comprehensive in terms of application offer and technology. I turn now to slide number four to look at Fosroc in more detail. Fosroc is a global leader in construction chemicals that has been built over the last 30 years, $487 million in sales expected for 2024, 18.7% EBITDA margin, outstanding growth with 11% annual growth since 2021, outperforming its markets. Also, a sustained overproportional EBITDA growth, strong technical expertise combined with recognized, trusted, iconic brands, and a comprehensive portfolio with roughly one-third of sales in additives and admixtures and two-thirds in specialty building materials.
Even more importantly, exceptional teams in terms of know-how, reputation, technical, and commercial success. So we are very, very eager and enthusiastic to welcome them into the winning team of Saint-Gobain Construction Chemicals. I move to slide number 5. You can see that India and the Middle East account for close to 75% of Fosroc sales, equally split, which will strengthen Saint-Gobain's platform in these regions. Growth perspectives are appealing, both for infrastructure and buildings, all these being linked to demographic trends. As you know, India benefits from a strong underlying construction market, fueled also by the infrastructure sector. Within this infrastructure market, we see an accelerated penetration of construction chemicals driven by requirements for better quality, stronger productivity on job sites, and also enhanced performance. We witnessed a strong evolution towards ready-mix versus traditional on-site mixing.
As a proxy of measuring this, we follow the evolution of cement being sold in bulk. In India, 10 years ago, bulk was making about 15%, 1/5 of cement sales. It is now 35%-40%, and it will keep moving up. So this is a very strong driver for growth for concrete admixtures going forward. On waterproofing membranes, also, demand is growing quickly due to flat roof construction and also increased extreme weather conditions. Then the Middle East, again, a strong underlying construction sector driven by the demand in infrastructure and multiple major projects that you will have heard about. I switch now to slide number 6.
If we take a step back to look at Saint-Gobain's growth journey in construction chemicals in the past few years, with the acquisition of Fosroc, we will have more than doubled our size in construction chemicals from EUR 2.8 billion in 2019 to EUR 6.2 billion. We will have effectively built a solid global platform, 73 countries, 300 sites, 13,000 employees. Thanks to a very clear investment strategy with targeted and value-created capital allocation, all these being executed in a detailed manner. We are doing it through acquisitions and also thanks to organic growth and CapEx with 31 new production lines built in 25 countries since 2021.
I think it's very important to note that it is because we have such an attractive platform in terms of organization, in terms of teams, that we are able to land and attract successful bilateral discussions like the one that we had on Fosroc over the last month. I turn to slide number seven. Let's zoom on India. Fosroc will particularly complement our position on this market, which is a key growth driver for the group and a very successful country for Saint-Gobain. We are already a leader in light and sustainable construction in India, a recognized leader in glass, in gypsum, in insulation. We have altogether 35 individual sites, including nine in construction chemicals, more than 9,000 employees. And as you know, a very successful journey with double-digit growth for so many years and, of course, double-digit margin.
Fosroc will triple times three Saint-Gobain's sales in construction chemicals in India, and it will bring a very bright future for us. With a net worth of over 7,000 retail points of sale, a strong position in infrastructure. For instance, Fosroc was the official supplier of admixtures for the Polavaram Dam or the Chennai Metro Tunnels in India and a portfolio of high-performance products. So a very iconic brand and presence in India. By joining Fosroc, we'll be able to increase cross-selling opportunities for the benefit of our clients, mutualize SG&A, or optimize our supply chain. I now hand over to Thierry, who has been extremely successful in this discussion and instrumental in building our construction chemicals platform over the last three years. Thierry, over to you.
Thank you very much, Benoit. Now commenting on slide number eight. Of course, in addition to its stellar growth and profitability track record, we are very excited to soon integrate Fosroc into Saint-Gobain. First of all, we are absolutely convinced that this company is the perfect fit within Saint-Gobain Construction Chemicals' platform. Let me remind you that we know Fosroc well. We have followed their development very carefully over the past years. Some of you may know that Chryso, in the past, had acquired from Fosroc some assets both in France and in South Africa. So this is a company which we know well. More importantly, we have the right team and track record to confidently integrate Fosroc and generate value quickly through this integration.
This is the exact same team that has developed Chryso over the years and that successfully integrated within Saint-Gobain that will manage this integration. We are all there to continue to drive success, to leverage the Saint-Gobain worldwide geographic and technical platform. I can tell you that having spent almost 20 years of my professional life in construction chemicals, I had the willingness when joining Saint-Gobain in 2021 that we could write a fantastic new chapter together. And here we are, combining in just three years' time Chryso, Weber, GCP, and Fosroc with an extraordinary build-up that we do methodically in the right order and at a global scale. With maybe that time. And all my team is with me since day one.
You remember when we met all together in November for its investor-dedicated to construction chemicals, I told you that we were still looking after additional opportunities, and here we are. In terms of integration track record, as a reminder, I'd like to state again that with Chryso and GCP, we were able to deliver EUR 50 million of synergies ahead of plan in 2023. When I look after the combination of Chryso and GCP, we have improved the EBITDA margin by 400 basis points in just the first year of integration. I can tell you that 2024 is continuing to progress well on multiple fronts, and I'm confident that we are moving the combined business towards a best-in-class performance level.
Continuing to comment on that slide number eight, I'd like to share with you that very similarly to what we've done with Chryso and GCP, we will leverage four main leaders to generate value. Number one is innovation. I will deep dive on this a bit later, but I am absolutely convinced that the combination of Fosroc's deep market knowledge in India, in the Middle East, and in India, with Chryso's and GCP's best-in-class offerings will drive further growth. We will do that on concrete admixtures, cement additives, waterproofing, and more fast technologies. From a supply chain standpoint, we will combine our industrial setups that will enhance our operating costs, delivering performance for our customers. I remind you that an efficient, consistent, and reliable supply chain is a key success factor in the construction chemical space.
As well, and this is something which has been commented at length with the acquisition of GCP, taking advantage of Chryso's polymerization capabilities from our facilities either in Europe, in Turkey, or in India, will improve our cost position. And as importantly, it will improve the capabilities to design best-of-differentiated solutions for Fosroc customers. We have a large network of nine regional development centers that will support Fosroc formulations and new product introduction capabilities. And finally, on product complementarity, Benoit has commented that Fosroc has developed a very strong and comprehensive offering, in particular on the infrastructure space. We will leverage this know-how into new geographies where the group is present and where Fosroc is not located.
With GCP, we also have acquired some niche offerings in injection resins, bridge deck waterproofing, high-tech valves for windmill applications, and these will be great additions as well to Fosroc's offerings in the market where they do business. Let me now move to slide number 9. We will be, of course, able to unlock exciting cross-selling opportunities with this acquisition. This will reinforce Saint-Gobain's offering for low-carbon construction. By combining Fosroc's intimate knowledge and exposure to the Middle East and Indian construction markets with Chryso's innovation. Combining as well Fosroc's specialty building materials portfolio with GCP waterproofing offerings in bridges, in underground works, in foundations will strengthen Fosroc's capabilities to answer any complex request on a larger set of job sites. We will, therefore, reinforce Fosroc's differentiation capabilities in the businesses where they are. And here, Fosroc will benefit from a greater level of vertical integration than today.
I remind you that GCP and recent acquisitions that we've done in India are giving us manufacturing capabilities in high-performance membranes. And so before, and as well to finish, we would be as well in a way to leverage Weber's regional presence to expand Fosroc's distribution channels. As commented by Benoit, Fosroc is currently serving a network of 7,000 retail points just in India. That's a fast-growing go-to-market channel in India. And we will obviously expand that capability with Weber's offerings, leveraging what Fosroc has built very successfully over the past years in India in particular. And so before I hand it over to Sreedhar, who will tell you more about the synergies and the transaction details, I'd like to say once again how excited I am about this new step in Saint-Gobain's successful journey in building its construction chemical growth platform.
Not only do I believe in the very strong complementarity of Fosroc and Saint-Gobain's assets and capabilities, I'm also convinced of the cultural fit between our organization that will be absolutely core to our integration. I've had the pleasure to work closely with the Fosroc team over the last months on this acquisition and getting to know and work with them in a truly natural and constructive way. I am very much looking forward to continuing to advance with them in the very near future. Over to you, Sreedhar.
Thank you, Thierry. We indeed have an exciting journey ahead. Moving to slide 10, we expect synergies of $54 million in year three. Of these, the vast majority will be cost synergies. $11 million in procurement and formulation engineering with purchasing savings on input chemicals, for example, and the optimization of product recipes. On operations, we expect $12 million of synergies similar to what we have done with GCP. We will leverage Chryso's production platform to integrate polymer production as they request. We have also identified very clearly $16 million of SG&A savings in the countries where Fosroc is operating. Finally, we have also identified close to $15 million of growth synergies from the cross-selling and portfolio enrichment as detailed by Thierry. These synergies will be realized across our construction chemicals platform and our wider construction solutions in all these countries.
If we just take the High-Performance Solutions construction chemicals sales, these synergies would be representing around 3% of sales. I want to assure you all that these synergies are backed with a very detailed analysis, and I'm very confident that we will achieve this as we have demonstrated in the case of Chryso and GCP. Moving on to slide number 11. Now let's see the transaction overview. Our offer price represents a multiple of 11.3x of 2024 estimated EBITDA pre-synergies. If you take post-synergies multiple, it will be 7.1x. The transaction is value created by year three, meeting our strict financial criteria for any acquisition. The transaction will be fully financed in cash and will have a limited impact of around 0.1x on our leverage ratio.
That means we will remain at the low end of our target range, which we gave during the capital market day of 1.5x to 2x, even if taking into account Chryso and CSR acquisitions. The management team is very experienced, and we are looking forward to welcoming them to join Saint-Gobain. Closing is expected in H1 of 2025, subject to all customary conditions. Importantly, the integration will be managed by the same team led by Thierry, who piloted the integrations of Chryso and GCP so successfully. I will now pass on the floor back to Benoit to make the concluding remarks.
Thank you, Sreedhar. Thank you, Thierry. So on the last slide, number 12. To conclude, let me say again that I'm very excited by this acquisition and also very convinced and confident about the value it will bring to Saint-Gobain shareholders and customers, and very confident in the success of this smooth, seamless integration, just like what the team has delivered on Chryso and GCP. I want to deeply congratulate David Molho , our CEO for High Performance Solutions, and Thierry Bernard for the impressive journey already achieved in construction chemicals and also for this very successful discussion related to the Fosroc combination. With this acquisition, Saint-Gobain's construction chemical platform has an even more balanced and attractive geographic footprint, with much increased exposure to the fastest-growing markets. Fosroc will leverage the strong initial platform of Saint-Gobain around the world to deliver the value-added solutions needed to meet the world's sustainability needs.
Finally, frankly speaking, I could not dream of a stronger and more experienced team to deliver the synergies and profitable growth. We will be extremely happy to welcome the Fosroc teams. They have a fantastic track record, fantastic positions in so many countries. And I would like also to convey my strong appreciation and congratulations for the strategic development achieved by Fosroc over so many years under the leadership of Dr. Jim Hay, the current shareholder of Fosroc. Thank you for your attention. And both Sreedhar, Thierry, and myself, we are ready to take your questions now.
Thank you, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. The first question comes from Abraham Homsy of CIC.
Hello. Benoit, Sreedhar, and Thierry, thanks for taking the question. The first one is about the market share of Fosroc in a single country. Is there any antitrust risk regarding this acquisition? The second is about the synergies. Is there any synergy identified between CSR in Australia and Fosroc? And the last question on the Fosroc exposure, I understand that the main market is the infrastructure market. What about the residential market within Saint-Gobain and within Europe? Thank you.
Thank you. I will take the first question. Thank you, Thierry. We will take the third one. So Fosroc has a well-established presence in their different countries. We are not going to give you the details of their market share. There will be antitrust filing. It will take some time. Benoit, we don't anticipate the closing before the first half of 2025, but we think this acquisition may go smoothly forward country by country. So we don't anticipate any difficulty and significant issue on antitrust. But of course, we will have those discussions bilaterally, one by one in the different countries, but it has been well identified because, as you have understood, we have several months of discussion with Fosroc. The second, no, there is no presence of Fosroc in Australia. So in the very short term, there will be no synergies there.
As you know, thanks to GCP, we got a business of construction chemicals in Australia that we intend to grow. Once, when we will close, of course, CSR, it will help leveraging the very strong footprint of CSR in Australia. But what we will bring going forward on top of the growth of the existing business of GCP is, for instance, the technologies that Fosroc has developed in so many countries. Of course, we will have the ability to bring that to Australia, but it's not part of the synergies that we have computed in the slide that Sreedhar shared with you.
Yes. On your first question regarding the exposure to end markets, what you see from their geographical exposure and from the origin of this company is that they have, let's say, a stronger focus on infrastructure, which to some extent is a fantastic asset because typically in infrastructure, the technical requirements for the quality, the performance of a product are usually higher than in more, let's say, traditional, potentially residential buildings. So the brand Fosroc has been built on extraordinary track record and performance over many years in the Middle East, in India, in Southeast Asia for their products. So the focus is definitely on infrastructure. Now, let's be clear, they also do business in commercial buildings and residential. I was commenting a few minutes ago with Benoit on what they have developed in India through the retail segment.
Typically, this retail go-to-market is much more dedicated to the commercial buildings or residential buildings and for the infrastructure. So Fosroc has a focus on infrastructure, yes, but they also do business in residential and commercial buildings.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
The next question is from Cedar Ekblom of Morgan Stanley.
Thanks very much. So a couple of questions. Can you just talk about when you started having discussions with Fosroc and how this deal actually came about? Then on slide four, there's a little bit of detail on all the different product segments. I don't know if you could give us some high-level numbers on how much additives and admixtures contribute to revenue and then maybe how much the specialty building materials contribute so we can get a little bit of a better understanding on the portfolio? And then, Thierry, the question for you. Can you just comment on sort of the approach to integration of the assets? How are you going to get your local teams to make sure that the integration goes smoothly? How much is going to be done at the head office level? That would be really helpful. Thank you.
Thank you, Sreedhar. So I'll take the first one to the third. So this session started late last year. But as you have understood from the presentation from Thierry, Thierry knew them for many, many years. So because Chryso did buy some Fosroc assets in France and southern Europe. So the bilateral discussions on this transaction started in late 2023, have been very detailed. And Benoit, for instance, on synergies, we had two due diligence visits, David Molho , and Thierry Bernard visited all their plants, had access to the management. So the plan is already well prepared and has been discussed on both sides. So that's the timing of the discussions. On slide number four, I mentioned in my presentation that it's roughly 1/3, around 1/3, concrete admixtures and two-thirds on the other specialty building material segment.
That's the overall split in terms of sales. Thierry, if you want to add color on that or the approach to some of the questions.
Yes, for sure. The thing where I'm much more comfortable is that what we've done with GCP on the integration, but one of the reasons why we were so upbeat about this acquisition is our organization is ready today to integrate with Fosroc. When we've combined Chryso and GCP, we've designed a detailed and a new organization purposely to make it an attractive consolidation platform capable to look after admixtures, specialty building materials in a very decentralized way with countries empowered to develop the businesses in the different countries. Today, this organization is ready. Interestingly, Fosroc organization is very similar. Fosroc is an organization which is driven by its countries with support centrally from verticals which are either in concrete admixtures and additives, specialty building materials. So the model of Fosroc is extremely similar to the one which we have built within Saint-Gobain over the past years.
And that's why I'm very confident about the quality of integration. The other thing that I've not commented during the presentation is very similar to Chryso, the Fosroc leadership team is made of very seasoned managers who have been in the business for many years. They know their market extremely well. They are knowledgeable about their product families and offerings. So I'm absolutely confident that with them, we will build a strong management team. We will do, in a very same manner as with GCP, very fast execution of plans. As Benoit commented, we have been in a position to discuss with them in relatively long bilateral discussions, which is giving us a very good level of confidence on what needs to be done and how we will move quickly again in designing the proper integration plan once the closing is done.
I would say the experience, the recent experience of the GCP acquisition is giving me no fear to face complacency, but at least we have a strong experience of integrating multi-countries or continents of global businesses.
Helpful. Thanks so much.
Thank you, Cedar.
The next question is from Elodie Rall of JP Morgan.
Yeah, good morning. Maybe just two questions here. Can you talk a little bit about the like-for-like growth of Fosroc in recent years and how have margins been for this particular business compared to the 18.7% now? And how do these margins compare to Saint-Gobain's overall construction chemicals margins? And second, I was wondering if following this acquisition, if there are still some application offers or technology or geographies that you'd like to expand into, what is still missing to complement your construction chemicals footprint? Thank you.
Sreedhar, you said the first, and Thierry, you said the second.
So you have seen that if you look at the last few years, Fosroc has actually grown at the rate of 11%. So it's a very nice growth story. And this is something which you see that because of the presence in countries like India and the Middle East. These are countries which are fast-growing countries. And we have also seen in Saint-Gobain's businesses, we have always grown in the last 10 years, if you see, in double-digit growth. So it's a fantastic growth story. And just because of that geographical presence in the countries which are structurally growing faster. In terms of margin, you're seeing the margin, we have talked about 18.7%. It's a very good best-in-class. So it's a margin which is fantastic. And in terms of comparison with Saint-Gobain construction chemicals, overall, when you look at it, it's a combination of Chryso.
You know that Chryso is the best-in-class. We have demonstrated consistently more than 20% of EBITDA margin, whereas the GCP is in the journey of turning around. And you've seen that the very first year, we have delivered the combination of Chryso and GCP, which is a 400 basis points. And other businesses of construction chemicals is not very far from the average. So overall, it's a fantastic platform that we are building to have a very profitable growth story. And in general, I would say that we are not very far from an average of 18%.
Okay. On the second half of your questions, two topics that I would like to comment. The first one is related to what I was commenting earlier about the infrastructure offering of Fosroc. I think that Fosroc has demonstrated nicely its capability to have a very comprehensive offering for solutions which are related to infrastructure projects, starting at the early stage from concrete admixtures, which usually is the typical entry point on a job site when you start to pour concrete, then complemented by a set of solutions that are used by the general contractors in the course of a job site. After you pour concrete, usually you do waterproofing of the basement or the foundation. Then you need the grout for that. Then you need the protection solutions. Then you need some flooring solutions.
And that's what you need to have potentially in bridge solutions, some structural adhesives which are necessary for the solutions in precast concrete. So that's typically what Fosroc has designed extremely well over the past decades. And the strength of what they have is that there have been references in multiple countries for that. And this is what we will use and leverage because it's almost ready to go. I'm pushing a bit the envelope, but the offering is there, and this is exactly what we will leverage in new countries. So that's the first part of what we will leverage. The second thing, which is not necessarily related to technical offerings, but you see the very specific skill in terms of marketing is the retail development, the go-to-market related to channel development and retail. What they have done over the past years in India is extraordinary.
Developing a network of 7,000 retail points over a couple of years is something which requires specific skills. I want that we learn from that and potentially developing as well some go-to-market related to this channel in countries where retail is an important part of the building materials distribution. That will be something important in what I see the interest of Fosroc. Finally, I'd like as well to finish my comments on one important thing related to sustainability. If I would say of one weakness of Fosroc's portfolio, it is their relatively limited exposure to Europe. Europe is the leading continent in terms of sustainability. This is where we are extremely strong. This is where with Chryso, and this is where we are totally embarked with multiple stakeholders in innovating solutions for the sustainable construction.
In Europe, Chryso is partnering with key accounts, large accounts, partnering with universities, partnering with startups to develop the future of building materials for the next decade, the next 20 years in terms of low carbon footprint, heavy building materials. All these skills, all these offerings, all these innovations, we are going to bring them and to support Fosroc intimate knowledge in the Middle East, in India, in Southeast Asia to go faster with these solutions in these regions. I can tell you, every time I travel to these regions, I see an incredibly growing appetite from these regions towards sustainable solutions. So again, combining Chryso and Fosroc will help us and will help Fosroc to unlock opportunities of development coming from the innovation capabilities that Chryso has developed over the past years, in particular in Europe in terms of sustainability. Thank you.
Can we go to the next question?
The next question, Brijesh Siya , CEO of HSBC.
Hi. Good morning, James. I have three, if I may. The first one is on the retail points. Thierry, you were talking about 7,000 retail points.
Could you speak a bit louder? We cannot hear you very well.
Is it clear enough?
Yes, it's clear. It's clear. Thank you.
Right. Sorry. So sorry. The first question is to Thierry. You talked about the 7,000 retail points being the kind of the driving force for Fosroc. Could you give us a little more sense about how the distribution of the segment is for Fosroc and what it is for the residual construction chemical business for Saint-Gobain? Then the second one is on the kind of the overall market size. Could you give us what's the kind of the market size you are kind of as a Saint-Gobain as a group has now the kind of target market size is? Is it EUR 100 billion, EUR 110 billion? And within that, how much the India construction chemical business, if you can just give us a sense of it, that would be great. And then the third one is on the Fosroc's 11% growth.
With the combination and the cross-selling and the distribution network you have, would you say that that growth is there for the next couple of years, or do you see there's acceleration coming in that as well?
So maybe I answer the number two and three instead of the number one. So yes, we presented to you the EUR 100 billion overall construction chemicals market in late November. So we are there. To some extent, the emerging markets or countries like India, they start on a small base, but they are creating a lot. So they will take a small lion's share. I don't know if you have more precise figures, but they will take the lion's share. As you illustrated in the presentation, the evolution of the cement in bag versus ready-mix in India over the last 10 years, which tripled, but it's still low. It's 35%, where it's 95%+ in Europe and North America. And 11% annual growth rate yet. And this is what we have factored in the information.
So Thierry, you can, in those geographies, like we have done in the last three years with Chryso, GCP, and Weber, so continue in those fast-growing markets on the double-digit organic growth. As far as the first question, let's be clear. Fosroc's main channel is direct to customers, whether it's general contractors for, let's say, the large projects, whether they are in the Middle East or in India and Southeast Asia, or direct to ready-mix customers or precast customers when you talk about the concrete admixture solution. So the main channel is direct. However, as I've commented earlier, I think that they've done a smart move to develop a new channel in India.
I don't believe that they have developed that channel into other geographies, but in India, they've done a very good job in expanding into this retail channel, which is opening the door for them, obviously, towards more simple residential or low-scale commercial buildings which tend to go through the retail channel for the small contractors to buy building products. So it's a combination of largely direct channel and retail in India. As you know, if I take a broader picture across all of Saint-Gobain, we have a very, very deep presence, if I take plasterboard, now insulation, glass in India on tier one, tier two, tier three buildings. And by design and by definition, we will leverage the role of Saint-Gobain presence and name, which is extremely powerful in India. Also in Southeast Asia, we have, for instance, a full 100% digital door-to-door strategy for plaster and plasterboard in Vietnam.
It's one country which is relevant for Fosroc. In Indonesia, we have already six plants of construction chemicals. So in Southeast Asia, there are numerous construction chemicals or Saint-Gobain presence, including on distribution. You know that our history within Saint-Gobain has been more on the distribution side versus the direct technical applications. And this is where Saint-Gobain will add to Fosroc to further accelerate. So we are glad that we have already a very strong retail presence in India. We have, of course, on the broader scale of Saint-Gobain, much larger across the board on different states in India, but also in other countries. So here also come an interesting component between Saint-Gobain, broadly speaking, and Fosroc in multiple geographies, including Southeast Asia.
Understood. Then if I just ask you a follow-up one. So on the construction chemical, what's the kind of distribution and direct sales exposure for you currently or on a pro forma basis, it will be?
For Thierry, construction chemicals, it's very dominantly a direct channel towards either ready-mix players or contractors. When you think of the Weber, the Chryso, the vendors that have been the starting point of Saint-Gobain in 2021, then it's more than 80% retail. This is the component when you leverage across the board Weber, Chryso, GCP, and Fosroc, depending on the applications. I have to go into the details of the application.
Gotcha.
Okay. Let's go to the next question.
The next question, Yassine Touahri of OnField Investment Research.
Yes. Good morning. Just a couple of questions first on the depreciation that you would expect. Is it like 2%-4% of sales for Fosroc? Another question is that you're giving a view about 2024 sales and EBITDA. Could you give us an approximate range of what those sales and EBITDA were in 2023? And how did you factor in the growth? What are the underlying assumptions? And then if we look at what you've achieved in construction chemical, it's quite impressive over the next five years. Do you see scope for more growth through M&A in the future, or do you think that you're happy with your current footprint after Fosroc?
The depreciation should be around 2.5% for this business. When you look at the EBITDA margin, you need to factor that because 18.7% is what we said to you for EBITDA there.
On the second question. On 2023, I will not enter into the details, but the business has grown, the EBITDA has grown overproportionally. There has been a good operating leverage from the Fosroc management team. The top line is definitely growing, driven by India and the Middle East. And again, overproportional EBITDA growth through operating leverage and margin management.
Anyway, we have given you the compounded annual growth of 11% for the last few years.
And on your last question, yes, we continue to see scope for growth. Of course, organic, we have seen a number of production sites we have added, and sometimes very fast, leveraging the Saint-Gobain footprint. I think Thierry highlighted what we have done in India within one Isover plant. We did a plant in Finland three weeks ago where we did exactly the same with Chryso in an Isover plant in Finland. So multiple opportunities on organic growth on top of innovation and R&D drive. And yes, further opportunities to consolidate the different geographies and acquisitions. So yes, we are very happy about what we have built, but we are not going to stop there because we see a good growth, profitable momentum with fantastic value-creative acquisitions. So we are there to continue to build this strong leadership.
We have, as you understood, the platform, the brain, the muscles, the legs to continue to do that extremely well.
Thank you very much.
The next question is from Arnaud Pinatel of Onfield Investment Research.
Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. First of all, I would like to say it's an impressive and comprehensive development in construction chemicals, especially in admixtures and concrete-related products. So it's great. But my question is around the adhesives. With Fosroc, you are acquiring also a position in adhesives. During the call, you mentioned the benefit of this integration for Fosroc. And I would like to know what is currently the percentage of the adhesives within the construction chemicals division of Saint-Gobain. And do you need more critical mass on this segment, and is it something you intend to develop?
Thank you, Arnaud, for the nice comment. And on adhesives, it's a small portion today. So we will continue to be pragmatic and opportunistic, but it's a very small portion today. So this is not the major part of it. If there are opportunities going forward, we will look at it.
It has not been the number one priority. There is so much to do in cement, adhesives, in admixtures, and all the specialty building materials applications. Small portion, and as you said, not the number one priority.
Very clear. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from Tobias Woerner of Stifel Europe.
Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. Just a couple of checks. When you said bilateral discussions, were they always bilateral, or did it start off with an auction process or a process? That's the first question. Secondly, where will you consolidate this business, in HPS or in Asia-Pacific? And then thirdly, moving on, looking at the managers on the Fosroc website, you have an impressive list of biographies there. Are they all going to stay, and how are you going to keep them? And maybe just lastly, in terms of India, more general question, where are you now in terms of exposure to the country as percentage of sales, and where would you want to go eventually? You talked about expanding other products. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Tobias. So yes, discussions have always been bilateral, but our initiative to start the discussion. So that started late last year, and they have been bilateral always and stayed like that. On the reporting, yes, it would be HPS. All Fosroc would be HPS. I would say high level on India, the goal we have, and Sreedhar will give you more flavor, but it's always to go 3x in India. This is what we did the first of the last decade, Sreedhar. It's an ambition for India.
I think we have a great platform in India, and you know that the brand recall is very strong as compared to what you have in France. We have a fantastic base and also a great team to work. India is, I'd say, very peculiar also in a way that because Saint-Gobain is present in almost every single product line which you offer for the light construction and also with the leadership position. I think that also brings some huge value. India is going to grow, as you all know, with the population growth and also the number of people moving towards from rural to an urban economy. There is an aspiration in the country, and Saint-Gobain will benefit significantly from this aspiration and the growth which will come in the years to come.
I am personally pretty excited about this acquisition, and Thierry knows about it. I think this is a fantastic addition to the Indian market.
One interesting point to note is that for several decades, we grew organically in India on flat glass and then plasterboard. We are number one in flat glass, number one in plasterboard with the six plants in plasterboard. It came, of course, through the British Gypsum acquisition. Recently, we have started our construction chemical journey with Weber, also organically. Recently, we have shown that we can start to make very attractive value-creating acquisitions in the insulation. Two years ago, now it's a double-digit EBIT margin, double-digit growth, and we are number one. And so Fosroc, of course, it's a global acquisition, but we have a very strong presence in India. This is the number one country in terms of profit. But it shows that now we have found a way to also accelerate in acquisitions in India.
So we have added the plants, we have demonstrated organic growth, but also some acquisitions in India. So I stop there, and Thierry, on the management in a way. As far as the management is concerned, let's be very straightforward. Fosroc is a very successful organization. It's a successful organization. We've commented the growth, we've commented the profitability. This has been done through a successful, long-standing management team. We are absolutely willing to work with them, retaining them with the discussions we've had with the Fosroc management team. They see a strong interest themselves in joining what today we consider is a successful and winning organization in construction chemicals. They are happy to participate with us to the development of our global construction chemicals platform. So yes, indeed, we do plan to retain the management team of Fosroc.
Okay. If I may follow up with one question, in India, Sika is probably one of the larger competitors. Who else is there in India which is of size or which can be mentioned ?
Many small players. I think you're spot on on the two large players, including ourselves. Then there are numerous players in India.
It is a fragmented market, indeed.
Is there any Indian-listed construction chemicals company as an aside?
We have Pidilite, which is a local company in India.
More on adhesives.
Correct. More into adhesives and sealants. They are not so much into admixtures and exterior products.
Sorry, what's their company?
It's Pidilite.
Sorry? Their name is?
Pidilite. It's an Indian adhesives company, but they are listed in India.
Okay. Thank you. As mentioned earlier, there are those great efforts on your consideration of construction chemicals.
Thank you, Tobias. Thank you.
As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your touch-tone telephone. The next question comes from Glynis Johnson of Jefferies.
Good morning. I have a couple for Sreedhar and a couple for Thierry. In terms of Sreedhar's questions, can you just tell us the estimated costs of doing the integration? And then also, the cost synergies actually are quite a big proportion of the cost base of Fosroc. And I'm wondering whether or not that's the right context we should look at it or whether we should be looking at it against the cost base of Saint-Gobain in India, in which case, what is that number? And then for Thierry, you talked actually about that retail go-to-market that you'd look to leverage it in places where that was perhaps the great opportunity. Obviously, one of your peers has done that very successfully in China. But what geographies are you talking about in terms of where you'd look to push that retail offering?
Then just in terms of technologies, did Fosroc have polymerization? Is there any technologies that Fosroc brings that the group as a whole didn't have that you could actually leverage into your other businesses?
In terms of synergy, Glynis, if you look at your right, you have to look at the broader cost base. As I mentioned before, it will be around something like 3%. And this is the kind of synergy that what we said, even for GCP and Chryso, which we have delivered very clearly, even ahead of our plans. So for me, I'm super confident that this synergy is credible. And the number of details that Thierry and the team have got from the discussions gives me a lot of confidence and comfort.
Glynis, I'd like to comment on Sreedhar's answer. I think what's important in this acquisition is the sequence. I'd like to come back to Benoit's presentation. First was Chryso, where the synergies with the group are mostly related to accelerating growth. Then we've done the GCP acquisition with an overlap between Chryso and GCP in admixtures and cement additives and vertical integration. The business was GCP was about 50% admixtures and additives, 40% SBM. Now we move to the next stage with a business which is 40% admixtures, 70% SBM with a broader overlap with the current group offering. So in fact, Saint-Gobain is the best entity to leverage synergies for Fosroc going forward because of its extraordinary geographical and product offering overlap.
This is why we show in our numbers a high level of cost, a relatively high number of cost synergies, and a high level of confidence in executing that. When you take really the overall picture of Saint-Gobain construction chemicals in the relevant geographies, we are around 4% of the combined sales, 3%-4%. So it's very reasonable and very achievable, keeping in mind that it's a growth combination. But leveraging 3%-4% cost synergies across the multiple aspects we highlighted is truly within reach. As far as retail is concerned, two things to comment. There are still lots of headroom in India. The players, potentially in side businesses to construction chemicals, some of them do have retail access to over 40,000 retail points across India. So we are still, first of all, in the early stage of the retail development of Fosroc.
So first comment is still lots of headroom in India. Then the most likely move that we will do in terms of retail management will be in Southeast Asia, where there is definitely room to do that, leveraging in particular what the group has built in Indonesia or in Vietnam, where we'll have access to accelerate this type of strategy. In terms of technologies, I would look at it in two ways. In terms of pure technologies, I think the group will bring more to Fosroc than Fosroc will bring to us, whether it's on the polymer side, commenting on Chryso, on the cement additive side coming from GCP, or on the digital side, again, coming from GCP, we will bring to Fosroc a lot for them to bring to their customers.
And what Fosroc will bring to us is a large set of references, as I said, in the infrastructure space, where obviously this is a risk-sensitive area. And of course, any project with a long tenure in infrastructure is a plus for us to develop that going forward. So technology will be more towards the group today towards Fosroc than the opposite.
Thank you.
Thank you. One last question from Greg.
Final question, sorry, from Arnaud Lehmann of Bank of America.
Thank you very much. Good morning, gentlemen. I have two questions, if I may. The first one, just could you give us an indication of the book value of Fosroc and how much goodwill you estimate at this stage from the deal? And the second question is around the drivers of future growth for this business. Obviously, in Europe and North America, there's a big push by cement companies and concrete producers to decarbonize, reduce CO2 emissions, and you're helping them with that. I guess at this stage, CO2 emissions is a little bit less of a focus in places like India or the Middle East, although that might come eventually. So what do you think drives the penetration of Fosroc products with its customers? Is it essentially the growth of the underlying market? Thank you.
I don't know on this goodwill. It's too early to be very precise. But if I had to estimate, I would say that with the PPA, the purchase price allocation adjustment, it should be around EUR 500 million.
Thank you. On the CBA question, Arnaud, we're certain in Europe, North America, things are both improving by sustainability targets, and we know that we are helping our customers to do so. In the energy world, as you said, it's not yet sustainability, but this is coming. I can tell you, in particular, in the Middle East, I had a couple of meetings with people who are looking in the new projects that the kingdom is working on to work on low-carbon solutions as well. But let's be clear, the main drivers in the energy market is about productivity and performance. This is where construction chemicals do grow faster than the construction itself because construction chemical solutions do bring productivity levers to the construction industry. Benoît commented the transformation of the concrete market in India, moving from batch cement on the job site to ready-mix concrete.
At the end of the day, what we are talking about here is productivity on the job site, and these countries do need productivity. Similarly, construction chemicals do bring performance at a lower cost. With the rising labor costs in many geographies, any productivity gain is positive. So construction chemicals do grow faster than the construction underlying growth in any of those emerging markets.
Thank you. Thierry.
Thank you.
I'd like to thank all of you for your participation on this early call. As you have understood, we are very, very enthusiastic. Again, a big congrats and thanks to David and Thierry for that. I think we ticked three boxes with Fosroc: construction chemicals, fast-growing geographies, and also an increased presence of Saint-Gobain to infrastructure and technology applications, not only residential, new or renovation, not only commercial, but also infrastructure. A fantastic milestone. We will see each other next week in the U.K. for some of you. If you are in the U.K. right now with Thierry and Sreedhar and Glynis, for those of you, you can come to our day in the Isover on U.K. with the fantastic, I think, demo of our lab, Scale One, for all the retrofits and rebuilds with new standards in the U.K.
Then we have our results published on the July 25th and the presentation on the 26th. You may know, I mentioned that to some of you, that we are in the final finish line for our deal in Australia, where we expect the early second half type of close. So as you can see, in those times where some could comment that it's a bit turbulent on the geopolitical side or whatever political aspect, we stay the course. We know exactly where we are heading. We continue to deliver very deep, value-creative strategic milestones with construction chemicals, Australia, and more to come. So we are confident about the guidance that we gave for the year and very happy to reconvene to present all that to you on the July 26th. I wish you a very good day. Thank you.