Good evening, this is the conference operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the Saint-Gobain Third Quarter Sales 2025 conference call. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions by pressing star and one at any time. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Benoît Bazin, Chairman and CEO, and Mrs. Maud Thuaudet, CFO of Saint-Gobain. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good evening, everybody. I hope that you have received our press release and you have been able to go through the highlights. Together with Maud, our CFO, we will present our Q3 2025 sales performance. Saint-Gobain delivered +1.3% sales growth in local currencies in the third quarter. Like-for-like sales were stable, driven by good dynamics in Asia-Pacific and Latin America, and the return to growth in Europe, despite the decrease in North America. We have seen a strong dynamic in construction chemicals, which, as you know, has been one of our target areas for growth investment. Sales were up 18% in local currencies in the third quarter.
This was driven by an outperformance in like-for-like sales, which were up 2.6%, and also double-digit growth from our recent acquisitions in construction chemicals, notably Fenix in Latin America and Fosroc in India and the Middle East, contributing to the strong growth. The integrations are going well, and synergies are on track. Many of you participated in our Capital Markets Day earlier this month, and I hope you enjoyed your discussions with the country and regional heads and the rest of our Executive Committee. I can tell you that internally, our teams are excited about this next stage of profitable growth for Saint-Gobain. In each of our country platforms, the teams are already rolling out their growth plans to take advantage of their unique local positions and also the breadth of Saint-Gobain solutions offered with more upselling, cross-selling, and specified sales.
Our Lead and Grow strategic plan that we launched for 2026 to 2030 is focused on truly leveraging our full solutions offering that delivers clear benefits for our customers. Building on our strong positions in residential markets, we are increasing our exposure to non-residential and infrastructure markets where we hold key advantages, including from the strong construction chemicals position that we have built. The focus is on growth and value creation, and we have set an ambitious financial trajectory for 2026 to 2030 with a new step-up for sales growth, EBITDA margin, and ROCE, as well as an attractive shareholder returns framework. Our internal roadmap is clear. The buy-in from our teams is strong, and all our teams are engaged to deliver. I will now hand over to Maud, who will discuss our third-quarter sales in detail.
Thank you, Benoît. Good evening, everyone. I am very pleased to give you some more details on our Q3 sales release. Starting with Q3 sales growth, first, to get the technical effects covered off, we had a negative currency effect in Q3 of -2.6% due to the depreciation of the US dollar and many emerging market currencies against the euro. We currently expect Q4 to have a more significant foreign exchange impact of around -5%. This would mean a foreign exchange impact for the second half of close to -4% on sales and around -6% on operating income. The impact is in particular on the Americas region. Remember that foreign exchange is purely a translation effect for Saint-Gobain. Now, turning to local currency growth, reflecting the true dynamics of our business. This was up 1.3% in Q3.
In Q3, we had a positive scope impact of 1.5%, mainly reflecting our recent acquisitions of Cemix in Latin America, Fosroc in India, and in the Middle East, which are perfectly in line with our strategy to focus our investments on high-growth countries and construction chemicals. Like-for-like sales stabilized, driven by good trends in Asia-Pacific and Latin America, with a return to growth in Europe despite the decrease in North America. Volume showed a sequential improvement compared to the second quarter at -0.9% versus -1.8% in Q2. Prices were up 0.7% in Q3, thanks to disciplined execution from our teams and the value added that our solutions bring to our customers. This is despite the inflationary environment softening. We still expect the full year to see inflation, but this will be very slight, driven by H1, whereas the inflationary environment in H2 would be broadly stable.
We are on track to deliver a slightly positive price-cost spread in H2 and for the full year 2025 as planned. Now, let us look by segment. Overall, Europe returned to growth in Q3. For the first time since Q1 2023, we saw a clear sequential improvement compared to Q2. Northern Europe was stable, excluding industrial solutions. The U.K. continued to grow thanks to its complete solutions approach for residential and also non-residential, where it offers energy efficiency, fire resistance, and productivity benefits for buildings. Activity remained mixed in the Nordics, with signs of improvement in renovation, but not yet in residential new build. We saw growth in Sweden and Denmark, with the latter benefiting from several important infrastructure projects. Eastern Europe grew, apart from Poland, which was impacted by lower industrial solution sales. We are still seeing some wait-and-see attitude in Germany ahead of the upcoming stimulus plan.
Now, turning to Southern Europe, we saw growth of 2.8% in local currencies and like-for-like growth of 1.5%. This is a clear sequential improvement compared to Q2. France showed a good sequential improvement, stabilizing at comparable working days in Q3. Leading indicators are positive, pointing to continued improvement in the absence of any new major political instability. Spain and Italy showed growth and continued to gain market share, particularly in renovation. Finally, the Middle East and Africa showed strong growth, driven by successful integration of Fosroc in construction chemicals and contract wins for large infrastructure projects, including bridges in Abu Dhabi and a subway line in Dubai. We also won projects in residential towers and tourist resorts in the UAE. Now, moving on to the Americas.
The Americas region decreased 1% in local currencies and 2.9% like-for-like in Q3, given the slowdown in North America, partly compensated by good growth in Latin America. North America decreased 6.5% like-for-like due to two factors. First, the continued softness in new construction linked to high interest rates and the lack of significant climate events compared to previous years, which affected roofing sales in Q3. Apart from this, the renovation market remains resilient. The operational performance remains strong, and we expect to maintain a flat margin in the region in H2 2025 versus H2 2024. This is thanks to our strong strategic positioning, as we have seen during the CMD. We are the partner of choice for distributors in North America, and that's thanks to our complete offer. In Canada, we recently opened the first zero-carbon plasterboard plant in North America.
Latin America showed strong growth of 12.8% in local currencies and 6.4% like-for-like, despite the comparison basis getting tougher in Q3. Industrial solutions were up double-digit, contributing to the good growth. Brazil continued to grow thanks to its unrivaled solutions, enabling cross-selling and specified sales to accelerate. We showed you during our CMD how we do this in detail. We also launched in Latin America the first low-carbon glass in Brazil. Mexico and Central America saw spillover benefits from the good integration of Cemix in construction chemicals, and Cemix itself showed strong growth in Q3, up 18% in local currencies. Lastly, moving to Asia-Pacific, which grew 8.4% in local currencies and 3.4% like-for-like in Q3. India delivered another strong performance with double-digit volume growth and market share gains, leveraging its complete, innovative, and sustainable solutions.
We won new projects in non-residential and infrastructure thanks to the leadership of construction chemicals in India and our reinforced position from the Fosroc acquisition. China improved in the construction market, which is stabilizing at a low level. Southeast Asia continued to grow, driven by Indonesia and Vietnam, where we specified and delivered 15 solutions for a new airport. The integration of CSR is going well, both in operational performance and in the enhancement of its range of solutions for the local market. The Australian construction market continues to remain lackluster, but leading indicators are improving. To sum up the third quarter, total sales were up 1.3% in local currencies. Europe returned to growth for the first time since Q1 2023, with a clear sequential improvement.
North America saw some weakness due to the softness in new construction and the lack of major storms, while Asia and Latin America are showing strong growth. Prices were up 0.7%. I am confident that we will deliver a slight positive price-cost spread for H2 and for the full year. We remain focused on continuing to deliver very strong operational performance. I now hand over to you, Benoît, for the concluding remarks.
Thank you, Maud. Let me make a few comments to conclude. For Q4, we expect continued sequential improvement driven by Europe recovery. As you have heard from Maud, France has stabilized at comparable working days, and leading indicators are moving in the right direction, pointing to an improvement. For Q4, therefore, we expect volume growth in Europe for the first time in four years and overall volume growth in H2. In North America, renovation is resilient, but we didn't see major storms this year, unlike in previous years for the third quarter. We expect continued softness in new construction. However, the market is structurally healthy, with a significant housing shortage, and interest rates, as well as mortgage rates, are starting to decrease.
Elsewhere, Asia and Latin America should continue to do well, benefiting from recent acquisitions, cross-selling, and specified sales, as well as an increasing presence in non-residential and infrastructure markets. That's on the macro environment. I can tell you that our regional organization is very robust. You have seen the power of our country platform during the Capital Markets Day, and it's a real strength in the current geopolitical context based on our local value chains. Our country managers are proactive, very focused, hands-on. They have a small set of priorities in pricing discipline, cost management, and, of course, accelerating growth thanks to our solutions in order to continue to outperform.
In this context, 2025 will see another strong operating performance for Saint-Gobain with an operating margin of more than 11% in 2025, which is a great way to successfully finish our last plan, Grow and Impact, which, as you know, was for 2021 to 2025. Thank you for your attention. Maud and I are happy to answer any question you may have.
Thank you. This is the conference operator. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press Star and One on their touch-tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press Star and Two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press Star and One at this time. First question is from Ben Rada Martin, Goldman Sachs.
Great. Good evening, Benoît and Maud. Thank you for the time this evening. I just had three questions, please. My first is on the second-half margin outlook. Noting some of your expectations around the gradual recovery in Europe, your comments around a less inflationary environment, is it right to think that at a group level, the EBIT margin expansion that we should see in the second half will be slightly better than the flat result in the first half of this year? My second would just be on North America and the third-quarter like-for-like performance, negative 6.5%. I wonder, could you just talk to what kind of benefit you saw within that geography from the new production coming online? Finally, at a group level, just be interested in any October trading commentary that you have seen relative to the performance in the third quarter. Thank you.
Thank you for all your questions. Let me recap a bit on the different moving pieces on the margin for the second half. We expect some positive with volume progressively recovering in Europe and a slight positive price-cost spread and, of course, the effect of good acquisitions. Asia, as well, should continue to do well. We expect some negatives with a stronger negative foreign exchange impact around -6% on profit in H2, like Maud highlighted. Some mixed effect also between regions, with America expected to maintain a margin flat and overall, of course, delivering less in mass of margin in America, but being flat in overall margin, be it North or Latin America. That's a bit the different moving pieces, some technical and some better volume environment and strong resilience on our margins in the Americas for H2.
On the third quarter in North America, we have started, but there is always a few weeks to ramp up technically the plant. There is no impact coming from our roofing pitch tree new line in Georgia yet in the third quarter, and the same for plasterboard in Florida. Those two new investments will help us lower the cost base going forward. I would say, technically speaking, they are on track with what we expected, but there has been no impact on the third quarter. A few comments maybe on the third quarter in North America. We have been very cautious and conscious on price. Our prices are up in North America for the third quarter, be it on gypsum or be it on roofing. I would say, year to date, when I look at the statistics, we are gaining a bit of share in gypsum.
We are gaining a bit of share also in roofing. On the third quarter, specifically in roofing, we are in par with or slightly below the ARMA statistics, specifically on roofing. Better in gypsum on the third quarter, better overall for both year to date. I think we have been a bit more conscious on pricing maybe versus the rest of the market in the third quarter. That's a bit the moving pieces as well in North America. Regarding October, Maud, I would say nothing specific to say. We see exactly what we told you regarding France, regarding the progressive volume recovery in Europe. That's in line with what we said and what we have seen for the last months of September and October.
Great, thanks very much.
Next question is from Anna Schumacher, BNP Paribas.
Hi, it's Anna. I'm for Paul Roger. Thank you for taking our questions. We have two. The first one, are you still confident that the full-year group volumes will be broadly flat, and have trends in October confirmed the implied acceleration needed in Q4? Secondly, what were U.S. volumes specifically, and is it possible to quantify the impact of fewer storms in the quarter? Thank you.
The impact of what, sir?
Of storms.
Of your storms.
Of the storms, yeah.
Sure. Maud, do you want to take the first one?
Yes, sure. In terms of volume, what we are expecting for Q4, as you said, Benoît, is further volume improvement in Europe. All those segments should be similar to what we have seen in Q3. Of course, there is the uncertainty around the weather-related demand, but we should be more or less flattish in terms of volume for Q4.
There may be a sequential improvement in Q4 versus Q3.
Yes.
Maybe to give you the picture, notably, because it's only for roofing. In roofing on a normal year, you have roughly 50% renovation-driven, 20% new construction-driven, and 30% related to weather. You have 10% out of the 30%, which are related to extreme weather patterns. This is the impact we have seen in the third quarter because for the first year in more than 10 years, no hurricane landed in the U.S. on the ground. Of course, we had a bit of hailstorms in the first half, but a bit less than last year, actually. There has been no major landing of hurricane for the first time in 10 years. That's a bit this 10% type of volume I would highlight for extreme weather pattern in the third quarter. All in all, again, the roofing is still a very, very resilient and important business.
They are doing well in that regard with the complete offer. We are the partner of choice of all the major distributors. If you think of the consolidation that happened in North America, when you look at The Home Depot, they bought SRS. We are the number one roofing partner of SRS. After that, bought GMS, if I move to Placo Board, and we are the number one supplier of GMS. We are very well placed to continue to outperform on those various building materials.
That's great. Thank you.
Next question is from Ebrahim Homani, CIC Market Solutions.
Hello, Maud. Hello, Benoît. Thank you for taking my questions. I have three, if I may. The first one is about the Q3 price effect. It is still positive on the price-cost spread as well. Does it mean that profitability in Q3 has improved compared to Q3 2024? My second question is on France, which is now stabilizing. Are the volume and price effects comparable to the group level with a positive price effect and a slightly negative volume effect? My last question is on Asia-Pacific.
Sorry, could you repeat the second one? You seem to be with a bit of an echo, so it's a bit hard for us.
Just on the volume and price effects in France, are these volume and price effects comparable to the group level with a positive price effect and negative volume effect? My last question, on Asia-Pacific, could you give us more flavor on India's contribution to the organic growth, please?
The last question is on India. Okay. Sure. Maybe, Maud, you will take the first one, and I will start the third one. Asia-Pacific overall is doing, yeah, there is a bit of echo, so I hope it's not uncomfortable for everyone. Asia-Pacific, India is doing very well with ongoing double-digit volumes. I will speak slowly because there is echo. Could you put yourself on mute? Because I think if you stay.
Okay.
Okay, super. Thank you. Thank you very much. Please, put your mic on mute so that there is no echo. It seems good now. Sorry. Asia-Pacific, yes, India is doing well in terms of double-digit volume. That's a strong performance. We had also a good performance in Southeast Asia. As Maud mentioned, China has been recovering in the third quarter. All in all, a pretty good evolution. There has been some deflation of raw materials, etc., in Asia-Pacific. There is a bit of price deflation for us in Asia-Pacific, but again, on a very good price-cost spread arbitrage. That's on Asia-Pacific. On your second question related to France, we have seen a stable volume, a constant number of days, of working days in France. That's, again, moving in the right direction. We expect France volumes to be positive in the fourth quarter.
Ongoing positive evolution, like, of course, for Europe, but also for France. We have a bit less pricing in terms of absolute price evolution in France, but overall, volumes, as I said, moving in the right direction, stable at the same number of days, and turning positive in the fourth quarter. Maybe Maud on the.
Yes, on the price-cost spread. As I said, we are expecting a slight positive price-cost spread. You've seen our pricing, which is up 0.7%, really the reflection of our pricing power. Inflation is softening. We expect a very slight inflation for the full year, mainly driven by H1 and inflation to be broadly stable in H2. That's why we should, again, continue to see positive price-cost spread, but in the context of softening inflation.
Thank you. Next question.
Next question is from Elodie Rall, JP Morgan.
Hi, good evening. Thank you for taking my question. Just some follow-ups. First of all, on the volume expectation for Q4, you're quite clear that you expect positive volume development. Can I just clarify if this would be the case as well without the working day impact that we expect in Q4? Second, to come back on the U.S. and the pricing deceleration that we're seeing, I was wondering if you could give us some color on what's going on in the roofing segment in particular, where pricing looks maybe weaker, even. If you could give us some color of where margins are trending in the U.S. overall, because you gave us a flat margin for Americas, but not for North America.
Lastly, I was wondering if you could give us some color on price and volume and regional performance for your construction chemicals, which seems to be doing very well. Not necessarily aligned with what we've seen elsewhere. That would be helpful. Thanks very much.
Thank you. Maybe I'll start the third one, and you might take the first one, Maud again. Overall, we have a good like-for-like performance on construction chemicals across all regions. I think we are clearly outperforming. For me, it's clear and we are 2.6% like-for-like, and it's both positive volume and price across all regions. For me, it's a clear showcase of the benefit of having solutions all together because there is a pull effect from other solutions to construction chemicals or vice versa. This is a positive, and we see that happening in construction chemicals overall. All our regions are growing. The demonstration of the power of the full range and also the leadership position that we have established with Chryso, GCP, Fosroc. Fosroc is by far the leading brand in India and in the Middle East. We have won some major infrastructure projects. That's a good performance.
We will continue to push for that. We have now all the technologies and all the different positions. That's on construction chemicals. On U.S. pricing, it's positive on roofing when I compare Q3 versus Q3 last year. We had, as you remember, a price increase in April that did stick. We have been, as I said, conscious on price for roofing in North America. That should continue for the end of the year. Overall, margin, as I said, flat in North America. That's, I think, a reflection of very good cost management and pricing discipline. That's despite, again, a weaker volume support in the third quarter because of the lack of storm and because, I think, the arbitrage that we have taken on price versus volume. That's the picture in North America. A very healthy business that should continue.
As I mentioned, we are the partner of choice of all the major distributors in roofing and also interior solutions in North America. On volume in Q4?
Yes. Elodie, Q4, we will continue to see the volume improvement in Europe. We expect that all other segments should be similar to Q3. All in all, that. Of course, again, we have the little uncertainty about the weather-related demand, but it should be more or less flattish in Q4 in terms of volume overall for the group.
Sorry to follow up, and thank you very much. You said flat margin in Americas or in North America?
Both, Elodie. Both.
Both.
More or less. Yeah. Both. For the second half, I'm commenting on the margins for Americas, and specifically, you asked about North America for the second half. Keep in mind that very often, we try to do our best to give you the impact of working days. Of course, we are entering now in November, December, which are lower months versus the months of September, June, or during the high season. An additional day in late December doesn't have the same impact in the daily sales versus an additional day in September, for instance. Just to be a bit more precise on the technical effects of days, we prefer to have one additional day in September than one additional day in December.
It will help for sure.
Yes, it will help.
Thank you.
Next question is from Arnaud Gourmelen Bank of America.
Thank you very much and good evening. A couple of questions on my side. Firstly, regarding France, you highlighted the volume recovery for the second half. Could you give us a bit of color whether it's coming more from distribution or more from manufacturing or maybe both? Could we therefore expect the margin to expand a little bit in the second half for the Southern European region? Secondly, have you announced any price increases for 2026, or what's your take generally on the price-cost outlook for next year? Thank you very much.
Thank you, Arnaud. Overall, the evolution in the right direction in France is for all for the clients. I would say both. As you know, they are in Catherine, but it's both. We play as a team in France, and we win and outperform as a team. I would say the meaningful margin impact, because we are not talking about double-digit volume increase in France in the fourth quarter. The margin impact, I think we'll see more of that in 2026. Of course, there is a positive leverage, but in terms of meaningful impact, we'll talk about it more in early 2026 for 2026. Yes, both are benefiting from market share gain, and I think the better momentum. On 2026, we are thinking of some price increase.
It's a bit too early to say and to tell, but yes, we have been preparing some price increase, and there should be some moderate price increase going into 2026 overall.
We expect slight inflation going into 2026, and we will adjust according to what is indeed happening.
Thank you very much.
Next question is from Pujar ini Ghosh from Bernstein.
Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. I have some follow-ups remaining at this point. On France, I believe Q4 might have some extra working days. Taking that into account, do you expect the volumes to be flattish or more on the positive side? One question on construction chemicals and your medium-term guidance, which you provided at the CMD. We think the growth expectation is more than 7% CAGR. Could you give a bit more color around how much of that you think is going to be organic market share gain, underlying market growth, and so on?
I'll take the second, and Maud will answer the first. If you take construction chemicals in local currencies, we are up 18%. It's well above the 7%. What is important is that in a difficult market environment with 2.6% like-for-like and organic growth like-for-like in every single region, we are, again, I think, outperforming the underlying market. Directionally, as you know, it's a market that has still a large potential of consolidation in terms of M&A, in terms of bolt-on. In the 7% CAGR, there is. There are some targets for bolt-on acquisitions, again, not the majority of it, because this construction chemical business, in a normalized environment, it's more in kind of 5%-ish, 5% to 6% like-for-like growth.
After that, you can always add one or two points of bolt-on acquisitions without considering any major move, like the big ones we have done with GCP in the past or Fosroc recently. Yes, there is a portion of it. We have now the platforms being in 76 countries on construction chemicals, if I remember well. We have the platform to add some technologies and to have a snowball effect, and also to leverage what we highlighted at the time of the Chryso and GCP acquisitions to leverage the large manufacturing footprint of Saint-Gobain. We did open in Finland a Chryso plant in seven months, not in three years, within an insulation plant. We have multiple examples of that, be it in Latin America, in North America, or elsewhere, where we can accelerate also the organic growth and leverage the existing footprint of Saint-Gobain now that we have the technologies.
That's on construction chemicals, and we have the teams and everyone aligned for that. Maud on the.
Yes. For France in Q4, we will definitely see volume growth in France, including the extra working days, of course, and that comparable working days as well. We will see the growth here, knowing, as Benoît Bazin highlighted, those working days have a lesser impact because they are more on December, which is a smaller month.
Yes, yes. Thank you.
Next question is from Ephrem Ravi, Citigroup.
Thank you. Just one question left. Can you give some breakdown of your growth in Asia-Pacific, specifically looking for China, where you said the market is stabilizing at a growth level, but China improved? Does it mean growth or just less decline? On Australia as well, the performance is lackluster, but leading indicators are improving. Can you give us a sense of volume growth in Australia as well? Thank you.
Yeah. Australia, indeed, we have all the leading indicators moving in the right direction. Interest rates have been cut also. It's, I think, a good sign for 2026. We have some average daily sales being up in certain months. It's more in the mid-single digit so far down in Australia, and that should turn positive. We had already seen some of that. We expect that to turn positive in 2026, but not yet in the current environment in Australia. On the rest of Asia, Maud?
Yes. China specifically, I think you were asking about China. Like-for-like is slightly down over the nine months, but we have turned positive and slightly up in Q3 in China, including industrial solutions. In both markets, we have turned positive.
I think it's a strong reflection of the conscious decisions we have taken over the last years to have a heavy presence on renovation in China. We didn't go after the large projects of new construction, but we had made conscious decisions, notably for our plaster and plasterboard business, to have a larger share on the renovation market, which, as you know, has been moving much better and even turning positive in China. That's something even on sustainability, where you have new guidelines and plaster or plasterboard substituting some heavy building materials in China, is something that I think will support us going forward.
Thank you very much.
Next question is from Julian Radlinger, UBS.
Yes. Thanks very much, guys. Just one left from me. On the weather-related demand in roofing in the U.S., I think it usually takes a few months for the industry to deliver product after a storm. I'm just wondering, with the storm season now slowly coming to an end, how long would you have a negative volume impact from that normally? Is it just Q4, and then we've kind of flushed that through, or would this go into next year, Q1, maybe even Q2? Thank you.
I tend to think that it's just Q4, if I take the weather-related. You still have this 20% of new construction, which will turn positive. I'm confident that North America will turn positive in 2026 on new construction. The sentiment and what we hear from the market, it will turn positive at some point in 2026. That's for the 20% of new construction. On the weather impact, again, at the end of the year, I think it's done. What is important also is that on the residential roofing, we have not seen any impact of the distribution, stocking, destocking, whatever. You have seen a bit of some players, I guess, trying to deliver on their gates, on their threshold in terms of rebates and volume targets for some distributors in Q3. When you hit that in Q3, you don't get it in Q4.
I think we will get more in Q4 than in Q3. You have a bit of those end-of-the-year dynamics of distributor by distributor, making sure that they hit their volume targets for the different roofing players. Some maybe got them a bit earlier in Q3. We'll get a bit more in Q4. Again, we are against a strong comparison in 2024 on roofing in the second half. Anything should be ended by the end of the year on those renovation and weather-related.
Fantastic. Thank you.
Next.
If I stay on roofing, we had a very strong performance in the first half. Year to date, as I said, when we benchmark with ARMA statistics, we are delivering a bit better than the market. Again, on roofing, but also on gypsum. You have always a bit of those swings. One competitor in gypsum released some figures earlier today. We are doing better than them in the third quarter, but you have those swings. We do much better on gypsum in the third quarter. We do a bit less on roofing in the third quarter. Year to date, that's what matters when you take the nine-month picture versus three months, because you could have those stock out. One distributor buying a bit more than what they sell out. On the quarter-by-quarter comparison, I think we need to step back. On the year to date, we are in good shape.
Thanks, Benoît.
Next question is from Yassine Touahri on Field Investment Research.
Thank you very much for taking my question. I think I've got a follow-up on roofing. Roofing distribution was on allocation last year in the U.S., as the drop in demand changed the situation. Also, on the distribution situation, we've seen QXO acquiring a Beacon Roofing Supply. I think Carlisle was suggesting some changes in buying pattern. Have you seen any disruption or any opportunities in this change in ownership? I think Beacon is probably one of your big clients for Shingle. Maybe a question for next year. In an environment where there is a bit more capacity, where the volumes are soft, do you see opportunity for more price increases in Roofing Shingle in 2026 to offset a potentially uncertain volume environment?
Thank you. I will take those questions. It's a bit, I would say, a bit too early to say, because usually in roofing, you have a price round in March and April. We are six months ahead or five months ahead. It's a bit too early to say. If there is a bit of input cost inflation, be it asphalt or elsewhere, there should be a price increase. It was moderate in April 2025. I think the value chain of roofing is used to that, as long as it's moderate, where I think it should be, because I'm not pulling out any price increase for roofing in March-April next year. It's a bit too early to tell, but I would say in a normal environment, which I think we will see next year, we should have, we could have some normal pattern on the pricing dynamic.
On your second question on Carlisle, I think you have to differentiate clearly what is commercial roofing versus residential roofing. We don't have direct sales in residential roofing. It's the industry. It's very different than commercial roofing, where some players have up to 30%, 40% of direct sales, because you sell directly to the contractors, you train the contractors, you give the guarantee with the contractor. This is where some manufacturers bypass distribution. We don't have that in residential roofing, and I don't see any space for that, and I don't see any benefit for that, because residential roofing, it's a lot of small jobs, home by home, house by house. You need distribution.
I think my question was more about the acquisition of Beacon Roofing Supply by QXO.
Yes, I was coming to it.
Sorry.
I was coming to it. No, but I wanted to distinguish, because notably, QXO and Beacon Roofing was doing commercial roofing themselves. They were competing with some of the manufacturers of commercial roofing. This is why you have a bit more, I would say, disruption or a bit more bolts in the air on commercial roofing versus residential roofing, because I've read, of course, the Carlisle comments and others. On QXO for residential roofing, no, we don't see any change. On the overall industry with residential roofing distribution with QXO, we were a strong partner of, and we are a strong partner of Beacon Roofing, now QXO, and we have good discussions with them, be it on siding, be it on residential roofing or other building materials. No disruption from this evolution.
As I mentioned, the bigger moves were related to retail, Home Depot and Lowe's on either roofing SRS and GMS, or even Interior Solutions with FBM on Lowe's. On all those big names, SRS, FBM, GMS, we are the number one partner. For us, it has even been an entry door, I would say, to get stronger in retail. I think we highlighted at the capital market today that we want to roll out our solutions, our cross-selling initiatives, not only in the merchanting channels, but also on retail and across all channels. That's an opportunity that we have with the big names of Home Depot and Lowe's, but no change of behavior or whatever on residential roofing. On your first question, sorry, I don't want to be too long.
Yes, I think up to June, July, our plans were on allocation, and the distributors were asking to get ready with the right inventory in case of a major storm. It didn't happen. Today, they are not on allocation anymore. Sometimes a few exceptions, some very specialty high-end products, but not materials. No, they are not anymore on allocation. What will happen? They will end the year, and then they will make sure that at the start of the season, March and April, they restock to be ready for the normal seasonality of 2026. If I stay even on the renovation and weather-related, the hailstorms and the traditional renovation, the re-roof, remember all the aging of homes that we have in the U.S. All this will restart normally in 2026 for renovation and weather-related patterns.
As of now, they are not anymore on allocation from us, and I don't see a gap from the markets from other players.
Thank you very much.
Next question is from Paul Roger, BNP Paribas Exane.
Go ahead, Paul. Yes.
I'll ask the question for both, I think.
Paul Roger, your line is open.
Sorry. Go ahead, Paul. We can hear you. You were on mute maybe. Take your time and go ahead.
Hi, Benoît. I'm sorry to pop on the end. A couple of questions. Firstly, on America's pricing, Paul's just come back to this. I know you obviously put HPS in the regions now, but is it possible to just give us some idea of what HPS pricing in the Americas did in Q3? I'm just wondering to what extent that might have basically compensated for some of the pressure in roofing. Secondly, just talking a bit about Northern Europe, clearly volume is still weak here. Looks like Germany is the culprit. Do you think there's any signs of turnaround in that country going into 2026?
Maybe I'll take the second one. Paul, your question was specifically on Germany in Northern Europe, yeah? Because indeed, we have seen a bit of stop and go and wait and see attitude. You have also on Northern Europe a negative impact from our individual solutions. The individual markets in Europe are not in a super strong shape, and there has been a negative impact beyond the construction market. In Northern Europe in the third quarter, including in Germany, of course, including in Germany, where the initial solutions have been slow. That's the picture year to date. I continue to see positive signs of what's coming in Germany for next year. I was in Germany two weeks ago, right after the capital market day, three weeks ago. I was in Austria last week. We continued to hear some good signs, notably on some public buildings, on some infrastructure markets.
I'm optimistic for that to turn positive into next year. Our teams are ready, but it's true that so far, we have been in this wait-and-see attitude and a bit of extra negative coming from individual markets in Germany, because we know that manufacturing in Germany has been quite depleted with a lot of restructuring plans announced, etc. On the first question, Paul?
Yes. On the first question, Paul, HPS in terms of pricing is in line with the group pricing, so you don't have any. I think Benoît mentioned before that on the construction market in North America, we are positive in pricing.
Sorry, just to try and be a little bit more specific. When you say in line at group level, does that comment also apply in the Americas? Was HPS priced in the Americas consistent with the regional average or the group average?
Yes, yes.
Okay, thanks very much.
Next question is from Will Jones, Rothschild, Encore, Redburn.
Thank you. A couple for me, please, if I could. First, just extending that question around Northern Europe, can you talk more generally about the lead indicators in France and how that gives you confidence for next year? I think some of the lead indicators in Nordics on new build are starting to look better, even if you've not seen it yet. Do you agree with that and how you're feeling about the Nordics, I guess, potentially in 2026? The second was, when we look at pricing in Southern Europe, it looks like it's gotten steadily better from Q1 to Q3 and a slight positive in Q3. How do we see that in the context of the kind of easing in inflation?
I wonder, when we pull together Europe as a whole, you've given us a view on the Americas 2H on 2H, which is helpful, but would you be drawn on how Europe might do at margin 2H versus 2H? Thank you.
Thank you. I will take the first one, and Maud will give you some color on the pricing in South Europe. Nordics, what we see turning positive is clearly Sweden and Denmark, not yet Norway. Today, I don't have a positive feeling that Norway is turning positive in the near future, but Sweden and Denmark, yes, it should continue, and it should continue into 2026. Norway, I think, I'm afraid, will take a bit more time. Finland was better in the first half, a bit softer recently. Yes, two out of three should turn positive. Norway, I will be a bit more cautious. If I say Northern Europe, we had a good dynamic, and it has been ongoing now for several quarters in the U.K. I think we are clearly outperforming in the U.K. with our full set of solutions. U.K. should continue to move in the right direction.
We have seen also a good dynamic in Eastern Europe, Czech Republic, Romania, all that. We have good indicators and a good dynamic, and it should bode well for 2026. That's for Northern Europe. Maud, you want to take the pricing in?
Yes. Pricing is incrementally increasing, indeed, in Southern Europe, but that's, I mean, it's a small increment. We are driving the price-cost spread, which is what really matters. In terms of margin, of course, we see some progressive recovery in volumes, as Benoît highlighted, but it needs to be a bit more substantial before we see more of that impact on the margin. That probably will move to 2026 when we really see the uptake in the volumes at Europe level.
In South Europe, one thing which we didn't talk about, but I can tell you in Spain and Italy, we are clearly outperforming. I've been very happy about the performance, multi-year performance and outperformance for us in Spain and Italy, both in volume and price and gaining share. Yes, we are French, so we spent a lot of time on talking about France, but Spain and Italy have been strong drivers of performance for us and should continue into next year.
Thank you.
For any further questions, please press star N1 on your telephone. Mr. Bazin, Mrs. Thuaudet, there are no more questions registered. We have one further question from Martin Flokering, Kepler Cheuvreux.
Good evening, Maud. Good evening, Benoît. Thanks for taking my question. I've just got one left, and I'd like to get back to the topic of China. It's quite extraordinary, your performance there, considering the market. Data that we've seen coming out of the property market in China. I'm just trying to better understand the structure of your performance or the key drivers, I should say. Could you talk a little bit firstly about your exposure towards the property market, but also towards the infrastructure construction market? How those weights pan out in China? I'd be interested in particularly your construction chemicals performance, not just the overall country, including building materials and industrial solutions, just construction chemicals alone. That would be of key interest for me in China, of course, in Q3. Thank you so much.
Thank you. In China, first, if I take, we have roughly half of our business on individual solutions with a very specific positioning on technology, on high-end, innovative products, be it ceramics and also auto glass. We are performing well thanks to this high-end approach. In the construction space, the bulk of our presence is on gypsum, so plasterboard and plaster. We are very small on construction chemicals because we always found it difficult to gain traction on the renovation market in China. Yes, you can be on large projects with big developers, but we always looked at it several times, and there was always a bit of even a credit risk and long-term payments, so not very good on working capital. We didn't find the software, I would say, the presence to grow in that space. We have been consciously defining our presence on renovation, plaster, plasterboard.
We have also the benefits. We have a very strong Chinese team. We have this country platform in China, and we have a 100% digital approach on how we deliver to our customers, which is very specific. They can tell you exactly how to upsell, how to cross-sell multiple products. I just benchmark, for instance, we have a plasterboard competitor, BNBM, in China. They published a double-digit-down performance in China in the third quarter. We are up. We have been, I think, outperforming with also being rather small. We have the ability to gain share, but we do it on a nice profitability level. That has been, I would say, not a massive volume-driven strategy, but I think something which is resilient, good for the long term, and well-positioned, notably on low-carbon solutions, light solutions, i.e., gypsum. That's something we will continue to push.
We don't have a meaningful presence on construction chemicals. When we bought GCP and etc., they didn't have a meaningful presence in China, and we didn't want to accelerate on it or build up on it because it was not an easy road.
Great. Thank you so much.
Yeah, Benoît.
I think we have taken all your questions. Thank you very much for all that. We have been very engaged, like all the teams of Saint-Gobain, to launch our lead and growth plan. I think it's a very important plan for Saint-Gobain to accelerate growth and leverage our leadership. Clearly, I think the outperformance of our solutions, we see it on the ground. We see it whether we take a construction chemicals view or whether we take a country view. We see that. This mindset of outperformance is there, developing and deepening our approach on solutions, expanding that into non-residential and infrastructure markets. All this is well in the minds and in the targets and the objectives of our team. I'm confident about what we have in our hands and for the years to come within Saint-Gobain.
Of course, we'll continue to work on, as you have heard, the optimization of the group in terms of asset rotation that we expect by 2030. We are very ambitious on the margin. You highlighted and you questioned, of course, the margin, but I'm happy that we finished the plan growth impact above the top end of the margin, above 11%, and we are ambitious on the financial targets of Saint-Gobain that we raised for 2026-2030. I don't want to take too long tonight, but I can tell you all the teams of Saint-Gobain and the local organization are spot on delivering extremely well what we control and continue to deliver a strong performance. We have our next meeting for the full year 2025 results, which will be on February 26th, 2026.
Thank you again for participating on this call with Maud and myself, and have a good evening to all of you. Thank you very much.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephones.