Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this conference call to comment on Sopra Steria's Q3 2025 revenue. I'll start with a few general comments on the performance throughout the quarter. I'll detail the figures in our four reporting units. We'll finish with the outlook for the end of 2025. As usual, we'll have a Q&A session at the end. General comments. Revenue in Q3 2025 was EUR 1,315.8 million, down 2.9% organically when compared with Q3 2024. The impact of currency fluctuations was negative at -EUR 6.8 million, and the change in scope had a positive impact of EUR 4.7 million following the acquisition of Aurexia on the 30th of April this year.
Performance in Q3 reflects a return to growth in the aerospace business, which, as a reminder, represents 10% of the group's revenue. There 's ongoing improvement in the situation in France, where revenue stabilized at -0.1% when compared with last year, following -4.9% in Q1 and -2.4% in Q2. There was also a postponement of a ramp-up in the U.K. for a program in the defense sector. It has been launched, and it does offer perspectives for growth in future quarters. The group headcount increased sequentially. In Q3, headcount was up 0.9% when compared with Q4, essentially in France +1% and in India +3.4%. On an annual basis, the contraction in headcount is slowing down. It was -1.5% in Q3 compared with -2.2% in Q2 and -2.3% in Q1. The change in headcount is explained by an increase in recruitment.
2,900 people in Q3 compared with 2,000 in Q2 and 1,400 in Q1. Now let's look at the performance by reporting unit. In France, revenue stabilized, down 0.1% organically to hit EUR 574.9 million. After a very slow start to the year, the trends improved in the aeronautics sector, which returned to growth, and in the defense sector. In the public sector, the contraction was stable with regards to H1, and that showed signs of improvement, which should continue into Q4. We're not expecting a significant impact of the political context in the rest of the financial year, and a return to growth is expected in Q4. Now in the U.K., revenue stood at EUR 211.5 million, so negative organic growth [audio distortion]. The SSCL and NHS SBS platform slightly declined, while NS&I significantly grew.
The quarter was impacted by the delay, as I said, of the ramp-up of a major program in the defense sector. This program has been launched and does offer an opportunity for growth in 2026. The group confirmed the reporting unit's rebound in Q4. Now for Europe, generated a revenue of EUR 452.1 million, so a negative organic growth of 3.4%, close to the levels in Q1 and Q2, which were at -3.3% and -3%, respectively. The impact of the progressive ramp-down of the SFT program was 1.3 points of negative growth. It was at 0.6 points in Q2 and slightly positive at 0.1 in Q1. If we look at Europe, Italy, Spain, and Switzerland experienced growth. Scandinavia and Germany saw their revenue contract. In the Benelux, the contraction was more pronounced. If we turn to solutions, which generated revenue of EUR 77.4 million, so down organically slightly at 0.4%.
Solutions, focusing on human resources, which represents 2/3 of the reporting unit's business, slightly increased. The specialized lending solutions were also up, but real estate solutions contracted slightly. To conclude, Q3 was quite close to what we expected with the exception of the U.K., which was impacted by the postponement of the ramp-up of the defense program. Q4 should be marked by positive growth at group level, low single digit. That will be driven by a recovery in France and the U.K. The aeronautics sector, financial services, and the public sector should continue to improve over the last quarter of the year. In France, we're not anticipating a significant impact given the political situation over Q4.
Against this backdrop, annual targets for 2025 are confirmed: organic growth in revenue of between -2.5% and +0.5%, operating margin on business activity between 9.3% and 9.8%, and a free cash flow between 5% and 7% of revenue. I should specify that as the financial analyst consensus anticipated it, we should be at the lower end of the range for growth in revenue and free cash flow. Now I'd like to suggest that we open the Q&A session.
If you'd like to ask a question, please dial #5 on your telephone keypad. If you want to withdraw your question, dial #6 on your telephone. First question from Laura Metayer from Morgan Stanley. Your line's open. Over to you.
Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I had a question on return to growth in Q4. Can we have some more details on the drivers? Obviously, I understand the defense program in the U.K. has been launched. I saw in the press release that's got the outlook for 2026. Can we have a little more detail on your confidence with return to the return to low single-digit growth for Q4 because that represents a big acceleration when compared with Q3?
Thank you. Yeah. Q4 growth will be driven by our two major geographies. France, where we're expecting positive growth in Q4, we've stabilized revenue in Q3, as you've seen, and we've got growth momentum over Q4, which we're feeling quite comfortable about. I said we're not expecting a deterioration linked to the political situation, so we're not worried about that in the short term. Driven by contracts that have been signed throughout the year, significant contracts in financial services, which didn't produce revenue in Q3, but we'll see a ramp-up over Q4 at the end of the year. For the U.K., yes, the defense program has been postponed, or the launch has been postponed. We should also note that all the joint ventures or former joint ventures, SSCL, NHS, contracted in Q3 slightly with NHS, which grew in the first half, so double-digit growth in Q2.
In the months of August and September, it was a lot less pushy. We're expecting a rebound in growth for NHS. SSCL has got less of a variation, but the explanation here comes from the NHS former joint venture. Confident when it comes to return to growth for NHS. Gone live in October for a significant platform which centralized purchases for NHS. That was successful. We're confident with regards to the return to growth in this business. Obviously, bear in mind that we've got a very high basis for comparison in the U.K. We stopped the VI program in mid-October last year. We've obviously got this comparison effect that we won't have going forward.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Nicolas David at ODDO. Your line is open. Over to you.
Good morning, Etienne. I just want to come back to the defense contract in the U.K. just to have an idea. Obviously, there'll be costs with regards to the initial trajectory that was planned, and then we've got everything that's planned in Q4. Will there be any revenue? Can you just give us some more details on the impact of what happened in Q3? I've got a question on SFT. The extent of the negative growth here, is that aligned with what you're anticipating, or have you seen an acceleration? Are we ahead of the plan that we had for 2026? Will there perhaps be less of a slowdown in 2026? What are we expecting for Q4 compared with Q3? Last question on the Benelux. We've seen a deterioration in Q3 with regards to the first half. What's the outlook?
Do you see potential for improvement in business in Q4, or is this the market context which won't allow this?
Thanks for your questions. With regards to the U.K. and the defense program, this is public. Even if it's defense, it's public. If you go on our website for the U.K., you'll find it. It's got a code name, and it's called Bluej ay. This is a program that enables collaborative work between the defense ministries, and it supports the launch of the DCAP program, the Combat Air Program. That's a shared program between the U.K., Japan, and Italy. A joint venture has been set up. It is currently starting. It's a very long-term program, but it has started in the U.K., in Japan, and Italy. We've co-built with the Digital Ministry. We've co-built this platform, and it's the only platform that is certified and accredited with the security needed for the different engineers and the different industrial players. This is a 20-year program.
There's obviously a slight postponement with regards to the launch, but we're very confident with regards to the future outlook. About EUR 10 million of postponement, that's about the numbers we're looking at. Next question now on SFT. We have migrated all the banks. There were seven Sparda banks as part of this program. The last one, the most significant one, was delivered a couple of weeks ago. Very successful. Great migration operation. There's a few additional works that need to be done at the end of the year instead of 2026. As said, the program stops in the first half of 2026. Business will be at zero. We're talking about EUR 100 million less between the two financial years.
In the short term, we're very much aligned with what we're anticipating in operational terms, so migration of the last banks a couple of weeks ago, and in terms of revenue as well. We'll see an acceleration of the contraction in Q4 with regards to Q3. Now for the third question on the Benelux. Rate of negative growth in the Benelux. We've seen Q3, which contracted slightly less than the first half and less than other countries. If we look at Benelux, yes, it did contract. We're expecting Q4 to be aligned with Q3. It's different markets, the Netherlands and then Belgium. We've got 60% of turnover in Benelux and then the rest in the Netherlands. That's the situation, which is not yet stabilized. We've taken decisions with regards to this business. Everything's public. I can say it again. We've appointed a new leader.
We've got another new leader for Benelux in the autumn.
Thank you, Etienne.
The next question comes from Laurent Daure at Kepler Chevreux. Over to you.
Good morning, Etienne. I've got several points. First, when you reconfirm your guidance, obviously, I was expecting you to be at the bottom of the range when it comes to revenue growth. Is there a risk in terms of the margin given the lower levels of revenue? Is that going to have an impact? What will mean that at the end of Q4, you'll be at 9.3%? What are the risks here? For the U.K., obviously, I understand the postponement, but we've gone from Q2 - 5%, - 9.5%. We're seeing that you're losing momentum with NHS. If we lose momentum with NHS, you won't hit your U.K. targets. Is there anything else that you've lost, or is there a contract that's ended quite naturally before the launch of a new contract? Can we just have a few more details with regards to the U.K.?
Finally, with regards to the Netherlands, given the market, where do you stand with the Ordina integration? I think, obviously, that was quite difficult in Belgium. It seemed to be a bit more simple in the Netherlands. What were perhaps the pitfalls or the difficulties that you might have encountered with the integration? Has that been solved, or is it the market?
Thank you for your questions. Yeah. For margin, we've got good visibility over where we'll end up at the end of the year. If we're upholding our guidance, then we're obviously confident in our capacity to hit it. 0.1% might change things a little bit, but we're confident in our guidance, and we won't be commenting further on that. Obviously, we're managing our costs very closely. That could obviously. With regards to the revenue, I've mentioned as well, we're confident in our guidance as it stands today. In the U.K., perhaps we need to talk about NHS a little bit more. Double-digit growth in the first half, especially in Q2, which grew strongly. We're seeing the seasonality of this, 25%. If we compare growth with the first half and then Q3, we're expecting growth that's comparable with the first half in Q4. Big impact of the volume.
NHS is obviously three stakeholders here. We've got the volume of the purchases. It's the hospital trusts that are managed by NHS. We can have different swing impacts. We went live in October with the new purchasing platform, which obviously means we can acquire new customers and produce volume. We're confident with regards to the growth in NHS. With SSCL, the changes aren't as significant. In the private sector, are you still growing? Private sector in the U.K., yes. We posted growth, but it is 10% of the business. Do bear that in mind. That's for the U.K. Third question on the Netherlands and the Benelux because, obviously, this question applies to Belgium and Luxembourg. The situation with regards to the reporting unit, obviously, we had a contraction in Q3. There were disparities. Sopra Steria was not present in the Netherlands, so that was Ordina, which had this business.
There wasn't necessarily an integration in the Netherlands. The original CEO of Ordina has left, and we've appointed a new CEO at the start of August who is responsible for turning things around. There are no integration issues specifically. In Belgium, we've bought two companies, Tobania and then Ordina. Sopra Steria had a longstanding presence in the region as well. There was an integration. Integration work has been done. The companies have been merged. Information has been brought together. The companies are now organized. We've also taken a decision to cut out the layer, the Benelux layer, as of 1st of January 2026. In the organizational chart, in the original organization with Ordina, we had two countries and then the Benelux layer on top of that. That's going to be rationalized in the short term. Decisions have been taken. Obviously, a new CEO has been appointed for Benelux as well.
If we look at the Netherlands, there's obviously a market struggling in the Netherlands. We're smaller. In the Benelux, the merger, bringing the teams together, we had our management focus on internal matters rather than business. We're going to turn things around now with a new leader. Teams are concentrated, and we've simplified the organization.
Thank you.
As a reminder, if you want to ask a question, please dial #5, #Q5 on your telephone keypad. Next question from Derric Marcon at Bernstein. Over to you.
Good morning, Etienne. I've got several questions. I just want to pick up Laurent's question in the U.K. Even at NHS, at - 10%, SSCL has contracted slightly. On the other side, we've got NS&I, which is up. The - 10% isn't that easy to explain. Could you give us a bit more information with regards to how we get there so that we can understand what explains it?
Next question on France. Revenue linked to financial services that you've won in Q4. Are we going to see a positive impact from this, or do we have to wait for 2026 to see the positive impact, and what scale are we talking about? Third question on the U.K. Keep coming to the U.K. EUR 10 million postponement with regards to the defense program. What impact will that have on 2026? What's the delta here? What's the size of this contract? What's the annual contract revenue? Last question on deal signings. In July, you were quite happy with the level of deals signed over the first half. At the end of the first half, has this positive trend continued into Q3? Does this give you more visibility with regards to 2026? Thank you.
We don't give 2026 guidance at this stage of the year, but thank you for your questions. With regards to the U.K., I've already given a lot of information here. We've got the block of the joint ventures. I've given you the details for them. The swing is explained by NHS. SSCL contracted slightly in H1 and then in Q3. We're expecting growth in Q4. Can't give you more details than that. You're at -10% ? How do you hit minus 10 with NHS and then positive SSCL? NS&I is a big positive impact of this. NS&I is one contract among others. We've got contracts with SSCL, which represent about EUR 100 million over a quarter.
For the U.K., with regards to what we're expecting, 5% to 7% in Q3. We're expecting growth in Q4 organically in the U.K. At the end of October, obviously, we're quite confident with regards to where we'll stand at the end of the year. Next question now on France. Yes. The contracts that have been signed, I didn't sign them. It was my team's. In the financial sector, that's going to produce revenue in Q4. We've got a significant contract that was signed with Soc Gén that's public. That's called [UltraConso]. We've got some significant contracts that we'll see positive in Q4. We're working on that and on the ramp-up on the recruitment as well, working with our partners there.
It might seem paradoxical, but the public sector, we saw a contraction in Q3 similar to Q2. We're anticipating a better situation in Q4 despite the political situation, which we're all aware of. Those are our forecasts based on the deals that we've signed throughout the summer or before the summer. That answers your question on the pace at which deals have been signed. The summer, traditionally speaking, isn't a period where we sign a lot of deals. Not huge positive or negative changes here, but we're confident in what we said at the end of July. Now for the U.K., third question on the U.K. Yes. The impact of 2026. This is a contract where we're expecting about EUR 20 million in 2026. [Audio distortion] and deal signings in general? Yeah. In general, we're seeing the trend is decent. We're signing deals. There are things in the pipeline.
I'll reiterate that in France, we're not seeing a significant slowdown. There is a bit of a wait-and-see attitude, but we're not expecting things to stop. That might have an impact in 2026. Obviously, we're all aware of the budget negotiations underway, which might impact some of the launches in the public sector, but it's too soon to comment on that.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Thomas Ponthieux at BNP Paribas. Over to you.
Good morning. First question. I'll start with the impact of price on the top line in Q3. Are you seeing an outlook for improvement from this point of view in the coming quarters? Second question on the cash collection from your customers. Obviously, we've seen free cash flow generation over H1, and the impact here. Could we have some more information on cash collection, whether you're aligned with your expectations? Third question on potential for improvement in margin in 2026. Obviously, if we've got a growth environment, what are the levers that you could activate to improve margin next year? Last point. We've seen some press articles on the suspension of your APIS software for CINaM. Could you just give us an idea of the annual contribution here of this contract, and let us know what has been rolled out.
Thank you for your question. Price impact, obviously, it's difficult because we've got an average price at, we don't have an average price at group level. France, Consulting and integration prices are stable here in Q3. Stable, but it's not increasing, significant competitive pressure. The market is contracting in France. Obviously, you've seen our competitors' publications, but prices are stable here. Now, the second question on free cash flow, cash collection, cash generation. At the end of July, we had said the situation was a little bit difficult this year, more difficult than last year. We had five extra days of DSO when compared with last year at the end of July. At the end of September, we've reduced this gap. We've now got two days extra, so the situation has improved. Obviously, challenge for the end of the year, but that's quite traditional.
Cash collection at the end of the year, there's always a big drive at the end of the year. That's still ahead of us. The teams are concentrated on that. That's something we're working on on a weekly basis or even a daily basis. With regards to June, we've improved the situation, and we're expecting a bigger drive. This is not specific to us. Obviously, all companies focus on this at the end of the year up until the 31st of December. Now for margin or outlook for margin in 2026, we're currently building our budget. Your vision of morose growth might not necessarily be what we have. We're building our budget now, and we'll give you more information on that at the end of February as usual. The levers that we have are always still the same.
Obviously, properly managing our operations, the cost of our projects, fixed price would be better here. Then we can think about the average margin at entity level and be quite happy at that. Obviously, when you look at the detail of this, some projects are at different levels. This is ongoing work, which is never finished. We're always striving to improve margin of our operations. We've got decision, which we've already taken, but we'll see the positive impacts of this in 2026. Our real estate footprint, because obviously, we've got our leases that expire three, six, nine years. Obviously, we'll see the impact of that in the P&L. There is a trajectory that has been built. Then the ramp-up in value of our proposals. We always strive to win when it comes to volume and value when it comes to Consulting, even if 2025 was a difficult year.
The Consulting market was down for Sopra Steria and our competition. I'm not going to give you a guidance neither on growth or profitability for 2026, but all these levers can be activated one by one. Now, your fourth question on APIS, we're not rolling, we're not deploying APIS. We delivered in November 2024. That was software that was delivered almost a year ago. The customer is CINaM in France. That was delivered in accordance with the customer's specifications. That was all tested and accepted at the end of November last year. The customer is responsible for rolling out the software on the ground. We're obviously there to help them, and we're still alongside the customer, but we have delivered a product that was compliant with recommendations. I won't be commenting further than that. We don't obviously give specific revenue by contract. That was for your last question.
Have you got any other questions?
The next question comes from Aditya Buddhavarapu from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Hey, good morning, Etienne. Just one question from me. On the search for a new CEO, could you just comment on the type of profile that the board is looking at in terms of the candidate? Thank you.
I'll be giving you the answer in French. [Audio distortion] the profile that we're looking for is an external profile that's been indicated. A specialized recruitment firm has been appointed. We've got candidates, and the process will be ongoing. I can't really say more at this stage aside from the fact that the procedure has been launched.
Understood. Thank you. Just maybe one follow-up on France. Right now, you're not seeing any impact of the political situation. However, do you think you could maybe anticipate some delays to public sector contracts in H1 next year, similar to maybe something like you saw earlier this year if the current situation continues?
In France, I reiterate that we're not seeing a short-term issue with regards to Q4 given the business that we already have. Obviously, you're looking at the start of 2026. It depends on the macro situation. If the budget isn't voted before the end of December in France, if it's voted late in 2026, that's what's happened last year, this year, then there'll be a delay in the public sector where the ministries and the different entities can't start spending, as was the case at the start of 2025. Today, that's not the assumption. We have a government. Debates are ongoing in the parliament. I'm not going to be taking bets on the results, but the government does aim to have a budget confirmed at the 31st of December. I can't say more than that at this stage.
All right. Thank you.
The next question comes from Wolfgang Specht from Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Yes. Hello. Good morning. Two additional ones from my end. First one on workforce. I was surprised to see that you slightly increased the number of employees. Can you give us some details? Are you ramping up here for, let's say, the pipeline you see for 2026, or is it rather balancing the increased attrition you are currently facing? The second question would be on European operations here, the German market. Do you see yourself positioned to pitch for contracts related to the special budgets of the German government for improving the digital infrastructure, or is this rather, let's say, outside of the scope you're able to deliver?
Thank you very much for your question. Question on headcount. Obviously, there was growth in headcount in France and in India, as indicated. This is the necessary ramp-up for contracts that we've signed. Major contracts in the financial services sector in France. We're very active in terms of recruitment so that we can support these contracts. Haven't generated revenue in Q3, but they will in Q4. We need to recruit now to be able to produce in Q4 in the short term. This recruitment reflects a rebound in business that we'd obviously mentioned in H1, France and then elsewhere as well. This is a positive sign. For the second question on Germany, Germany excluding SFT, which is a specific operation which I've already detailed. For the rest of the business, we've got a slight contraction in business in Q3.
We're anticipating a stabilization in Q4, about EUR 400 million per year excluding SFT. Investment announced in the public sector, in particular in Germany. That's an interesting outlook for us. In Germany, our strengths, our key business units are the financial sector and the public sector. Obviously, we've got a card to play in this sector.
Thanks a lot.
Next question from Derric Marcon at Bernstein. Over to you.
Sorry to come back. Can we just have some information on Scandinavia, which in Q3 dipped? What's the outlook for future quarters?
Scandinavia, which obviously usually produced double-digit growth, saw slight growth over nine months. Scandinavia for us is basically Norway. We're a lot more modest in Sweden. For Scandinavia, I'd say in the short term, the issue is staffing and getting contracts that we've already signed, getting them started. We've got some good deals at the end of H1, public sector and then energy as well, then the post office there. These are programs that will be starting over the end of the year. We've got recruitment and ramp-up. This does give us a good outlook for 2026 in this geography.
Thank you.
There are no more questions for the time being. We'll hand the floor back to the speakers for their conclusion.
Thank you very much for listening. Thank you for your questions. We'll be seeing you next time. Goodbye.