Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sopra Steria Q3 2023 Revenue Announcement. I will now hand the floor to Cyril Malargé, CEO. Over to you.
Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this conference call for the Sopra Steria Q3 2023 revenue announcement. I'll start with a few general comments on performance over the quarter. Then I will detail the figures for our five reporting units, and then at the end of the session, we'll open a Q&A session, which I'll lead with Étienne du Vignaux, the group's CFO. So what should we take away from this Q3? Sopra Steria demonstrated good resilience against a backdrop of successive geopolitical crises and a European economy, which is slowing down. Despite an unfavorable calendar effect with one fewer working days, the group just posted organic growth of 4%, with buoyant activity in defense, aerospace, public sector, and transport. Aligned with previous trimesters, previous quarters, the group's five reporting units all contributed positively to growth.
Teams are very much focused on improving operational performance and transforming the group, especially when it comes to its capacity to delivering greater technological value. And to illustrate this point, we've launched an internal program called Raise, on developing and deploying AI. First deals, initial deals have been signed, and we have also formed a significant partnership with Thales and Google Cloud to build a first sovereign AI platform in the cloud for financial services and public sector organizations. With regards to acquisitions, as you know, we finalized the Ordina transaction, which will be consolidated as of Q4 2023, and we've also reached an agreement with the UK Cabinet Office to acquire the remaining 25% of SSCL shares for a total of EUR 82.3 million, and this operation will be immediately accreted.
Now, I'd like to suggest we go over all of our reporting units, and we'll start with France. Revenue for the quarter was EUR 567.9 million, with organic growth of 3.9%. The most buoyant vertical markets were transport, defense, aerospace, and the public sector. So in alignment with the first half of the year, energy and telecommunications grew slightly, and bank insurance and retail contracted. Consulting remained on track and was driven by increasing, significantly increasing, sales prices, and then our PLM activity posted sustained growth of over 9%. Now, let's move to the UK. Revenue in Q3 was EUR 230.8 million, with organic growth of 1.5%.
Growth over the quarter was impacted by a very high basis for comparison for the passport renewal platforms, which in 2023 had very high volumes. The two joint ventures, SSCL and NHS SBS, specialize in BPS. They both posted growth of over 10%. Aerospace, defense, and security also grew by 10%. The private sector contracted, given conjunctural factors, but there is a good outlook for Q4. Q4, obviously, we're expecting comparable levels of growth as in the second quarter. Now, if we move to other Europe, revenue in the third quarter was EUR 378.2 million, organic growth of 5.4%. Growth in this reporting unit was driven by Scandinavia and Spain, with organic growth close to or above 10%. The other countries also posted solid growth.
Average organic growth in all the countries for the reporting unit was 6.9%, and then the revenue for SFT was comparable with that of the first and second quarter. Now, let's move to Sopra Banking Software. Revenues for the quarter totaled EUR 102.3 million, with organic growth of 4.3%. So Sopra Banking Software's new digital offers developed well, with about 20 deals signed over the quarter, which generated an increase of 7.9% in subscription revenue for SBS. Software revenue grew by 1%, and services grew by 10%. Now, if we move to other solutions. Revenues for the quarter total EUR 66.2 million, organic growth of 5%. So human resources solutions didn't show any signs of a slowdown. We had dynamic growth-...
of 4.4%, and property management solutions also grew by 6.4%. In conclusion, we've observed, obviously, as planned, a slowdown in business over the third quarter. Organic growth of 4% in the quarter is aligned with the annual organic growth guidance, which we reviewed upwards in July, so at least 6%. This quarter was marked by one fewer calendar days and a very high basis for comparison in the UK. The organic growth guidance, which was reviewed in July, obviously includes the growth of the first quarter at 8%, so this is included for the second half of 2023. We, assuming that there isn't any major deterioration in the economy, we confirm our targets for the short and midterm. So we confirm our targets for 2023.
As a reminder, organic growth in revenue of at least 6%, operating margin on business activity, slightly above 9%, and then a free cash flow of at least EUR 300 million. I'd now like to suggest that we open the Q&A session.
Thank you very much, Mr. Malargé. Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, press dial star one on your telephone keypad. Thank you. Our first question is from Nicolas David from ODDO BHF.
Good morning, Cyril. Good morning, Étienne. I have three questions. The first is, could we speak a little bit about the timing, the slowdown in the quarter? We feel like perhaps it's slightly below what we might have imagined in previous conferences. Obviously, we've seen the slowdown come in September.
We've seen the banking sector, which has been impacted in France. I'm just wondering about the timing of the slowdown in the quarter. And then the next question regards recruitment, net recruitment over the quarter. What are you expecting for Q4? And then my last question regards the UK. So on growth in Q4, is this very much linked to a recovery in private sector, so obviously, given macroeconomic factors, or is the growth more linked to the public sector?
Good morning, Nicolas. So with regards to the trajectory or the slowdown that we've seen in Q3, no, this is something that we'd had anticipating, and this is starting to happen, but we haven't seen, like, a major stop. So this is. It's a progressive slowdown.
We had revised our guidance upwards in July, and this obviously, this guidance takes into account, with the balance of Q3 and Q4, we've taken this into account, and we're expecting a Q4 of at least 4%. The financial services, when we look at the situation, we've got negative growth in France. When we look at group level, obviously, we've got the revenue in France and all the other countries, and software revenue, we are generating growth 3% in Q3. The vision that we have today, obviously something's happening at the moment, but we should remain, we should generate growth. Now, the question on recruitment. Actually, we've had the summer period. This is always difficult to assess, both in terms of candidates and on the employer side.
We had attrition, which has obviously gone down a lot, so we've reduced recruitment to make sure that we're aligned with our growth levels. At this stage, I don't see any major issues in terms of recruitment. In the fourth quarter, we should maintain the same momentum. For the UK, there's two matters at hand. We've got the private sector, which will make a positive contribution. So especially in terms of financial services, that'll make a positive contribution to Q4. We should see growth here when compared with Q3. This is a structural growth, long-term growth, not just one impactor from one quarter to another. Then we've also got the basis for comparison, which, with Q3, which was unfavorable, and Q4, which will be favorable.
So we're talking about 100,000 Ukrainians who arrived in the U.K. We're not gonna see the same thing this year. And then we've got the exit of the COVID pandemic. All these things have had an impact and that changes the basis for comparison. So for U.K., so in terms of weighting, is it 50/50? What, what's having the greatest impact? Private sector, public sector. So private sector is obviously a lot weaker than the public sector. So in general, the group this is gonna have a greater weighting, but in terms of percentage, private sector should do well in the fourth quarter. Overall weighting, obviously, given the weighting of the public sector, then this basis for comparison is a lot more favorable.
Is there a recovery in the banking sector? Are you, are you, are you worried about the budgets at the end of the year in the banking sector?
So we're not talking about discretionary spending. In the U.K., we work on major operations, so the contracts that we've signed are long-term contracts that run over several years. We're not dependent on discretionary spending in the financial services sector, which can obviously be impacted at the end of the year.
Okay, clear. And then for recruitment. So obviously I understand your growth recruitment numbers, but I'm a little bit surprised by this reduction in headcount. Have we seen a slowdown? So did you miss your recruitment targets for September, or have we seen a drop in headcount? Is headcount lowering towards the end of the year?
Obviously, taking into account the growth that you're planning for the end of the year, what's the impact here? Struggling to reconcile both. So obviously, we're expecting about 4% growth. Okay, so bear in mind, it's difficult to correlate organic growth with recruitment. It is a bit more complicated than that. We've got an approach where we're ramping up value in Q3. We're confirming in France that our sales prices are continuing to increase by over 6% when compared with last year. So that's one factor to take into account. And then we've got a significant amount of subcontractors. That obviously is a factor that has an impact in France. And then you've got recruitment and attrition. So there's not a direct relationship between growth and recruitment. It's more complicated than that.
But with regards to the momentum that we have, obviously, we carry on to, we're carrying on recruiting, and we're preparing for 2024.
Okay. Thank you. Very clear.
Thank you.
The next question is from Laura Metayer from Morgan Stanley.
Thank you. Three questions, the first of which... Can we have some more details on the Thales and the Google partnership? What pushed you to do this? Was it the customer demand, or are there other factors which have triggered the partnership? Next question is on Q4 growth. So if I've understood, it should be above Q3 to hit the 6% for the full year. So obviously, what's the impact of new growth with regards to Q3? What about the other regions? Are there any other factors that are gonna impact growth?
Then you talked about an increase in sales prices of 6%. Is this, is this with your existing portfolio, or is this for new customers?
Good morning. Yes. So we'll go over the questions in the order that they came. Yeah, the partnership, this is a nice partnership, a good partnership that we've signed recently. The idea behind this is to combine technological skills, innovation capacity, and a sovereign platform to be able to offer new AI services to major operators, in particular in financial services, but also in the public domain. We think that this is a partnership which is quite unique, with regards to the others on the market. That's how we designed it with Thales and Cloud.
I think it was this week we announced this partnership, and this is something that's going to start to come to life as of 2024. We are a software provider with Sopra Banking Software, so it's this capacity to offer these solutions, these skills in the banking domain to address issues like regulations, and then obviously combining this with sovereign capacities and innovation. So yes, we have big expectations for this partnership. I think they do as well. There's real demand, real need on the market, so big expectations for this partnership. Q4 now. Yes, we're aiming for at least 4%. That's the figure that we should keep in mind. So what can I say in terms of qualitative comments? So there's no impact of negative number of working days.
If we talk about the basis for comparison in the UK, I've already mentioned that, we're expecting to go back to growth levels of the second quarter. We're expecting growth, which will be not quite as strong in France. That's integrated into the overall equation, slowdown in France, but solid growth in continental Europe, quite clearly, and then we're expecting growth in the software division. So with regards to our major vertical market, so aerospace, we also know that Airbus is managing its end of the year. As most sites in supply chain, they're managing the end of the year, so we've seen a slight slowdown, but there is growth. Defense, public sector are very robust.
And then the banking sector, yes, we're slightly down in France, but at group level, we're still generating growth, and we should see growth over the fourth quarter. Obviously, if there are no major changes in the microenvironment. And then we should keep in mind, another important indicator is our consulting business, which delivered 10% growth in Q3. So slightly lower level of growth in Q4. It should be between 5% and 10%, but still at good levels. Third question, now, 6% increase in sales prices. This is quite specific to the French market. We've got various businesses which aren't dependent on sales prices, so software, BPS or infrastructure. But broadly speaking, you can consider that in other European countries, we've got this momentum for increasing prices, but the 6% really just regards France.
Thank you.
Thank you. Once again, if you'd like to ask a question, then please dial star one on your telephone keypad. Our next question is from Grégory Ramirez, from Bryan, Garnier & Co. Over to you.
Good morning. So I've got a few questions. The first, can we have an idea of growth rate in the companies recently acquired? Where do we stand with CS Group and Tobania? So obviously, these acquisitions have been made very recently. Could we have an idea? What's been, what's happened since the start of October and start of integration as well? And then two other questions. So on the partnership, so for the cloud certification in 2024, we spoke about positioning for banking and those other certifications in this domain.
But could we just have some more information on this partnership, see how that's ramping up?
Yes. Great. So to take your questions now for CS. We've got growth, which is above group levels in Q3. So with CS, obviously, it's driven by multi-annual contracts that last over several years. Obviously, they were signed, but there's also recent deals being signed. So that's what we're working on. With regards to the integration, CS has been integrated since the first of March, and then we're starting to see business synergies to roll out CS's offers, thanks to Sopra Steria's footprint. So that's where we stand with regards to CS. And then, with regards to the Ordina integration, we finalized the acquisition. Patrick, you could say a couple of words about that.
So yes, with Ordina, we now have over 98% of the company's shares. The company is integrated into the group, starting from the date, which is obviously when we took control of the company at the end of the public offering. So, Ordina today, in the Benelux market is... This is a market which is, growing slightly. Ordina, with regards to group averages, is about, 3% in Q3. So those are the figures that we can give you for this business. And then with regards to the integration, obviously, we're rolling out the, the usual integration processes, which are well-oiled and, and very robust. So we've got the new organization in place. So with CS and with the others, this is quite a standard process, which we roll out now.
Obviously, we have the opportunity to do so, now that we finalized the acquisition. Now with regards to S3NS, we're building the future. We haven't, at this stage, we haven't established the offered use cases, et cetera. So this is something that's gonna be that we'll work on in the future with the idea of being able to offer all of this halfway through 2024. So we'll have new proposals. We're going to obviously to build our offerings according to our customers' needs. Obviously, we understand our customers' needs, and then we're bringing software capacity and then innovation as well, the platform and obviously the certifications that you've mentioned. So this is a long-term partnership. It's not just a partnership for the next few months. So this is something that we're building over the long term.
Thank you. And then one last question, just to come back to prices, prices and salaries. With regards to 2024, I don't know if you've mentioned previously, what you're considering in terms of salary increases with regard... How does this compare to 2023?
So in Q3, the ratio, prices and salary ratio. So if we take the example of France, because this is basically the reference for our group, I announced that sales prices had increased by 6% in line with the first half. So salary is at 4%, 4% increase. So we've got basically the same ratio, which comes from increases, increases throughout 2023, and then our recruitment strategy as well. We have a strategy to recruit young profiles.
The salary increase cycle for next year, obviously, we've just started the review process, so it's a little bit early, but one factor to take into account is obviously the market, the situation on the market. That's something that we take into account, and we align ourselves with that.
Thank you very much.
Now we have a question from Emmanuel Parot, from Gilbert Dupont. Over to you.
Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. So I've got three questions. The first is on the put option. Can you give us an idea of the impact on 2023? And then second question with regards banking. Obviously, we've seen the momentum in software banking software. We've seen the impact of a discretionary spending. Could you give us some more information on this?
And then third question: so for midterm guidance, 4%-6% on top line, does—what does this induce for 2024?
Yes. So for the put option for SSCL, the government exercised its option, so we'll get the payment on the sixth of November. So we'll consolidate SSCL at 100% from the sixth of November. The amount of minority interest is EUR 9 million. So obviously, that's before financial costs, the cost of financing this transaction, which will have an immediate positive impact on results for two months, 2023. Now, for growth in banking, obviously, we're very happy to generate growth. We've had two, three difficult years from this point of view.
You also know that we've announced that we're investing in our digital offers, which we thought would be attractive to our customers. So these are small offers, not with big volumes, but these are small offers which are easier to purchase rather than, compared to major operations. And then in terms of drivers, we've got subscription revenue, which is increasing fast. We've had some good success here. We've signed about 20 deals over the quarter. Next year, for Wholesale Finance in the first half of the year. So that's a great deal. We've got the World Bank. So we have been successful, and this is obviously having a positive impact on our subscription revenue. Then we've got services as well, which is increasing. It's gone through difficult times.
So we've probably got a favorable basis for comparison, but at the same time, we're starting to benefit from investment, so that's starting to pay off. But we're going to remain humble and very lucid when it comes to the financial services market. It doesn't mean that it's in the bag for 2024. So despite the market context, we've got these little victories, this growth with SBS, but we're building the future. What about licenses for software banking software? For licenses, basically, if we talk about 2023, we should be at roughly the same level as 2022. With regards to midterm guidance, 4%-6%. So that's what we previously announced. Does this regards 2024? Actually, it's too early to talk about 2024.
So, these rates, 4%-6%, doesn't concern 2024. But just to round out the question, I would consider that in 2024, there'll be growth, but less growth than in 2023.
Very clear. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question comes from Laurent Daure at Kepler Cheuvreux. Over to you.
Good morning. So I've got several questions. One clarification for the UK. Is there a specific contract, a significant contract that is starting over the quarter, which will have an impact on the figures for the next three months? And then my next question is on the purchase of 100% of the JV. With the payment, is this going to have an impact on business or contract renewals with various government departments?
And then my third question regards financing. So we've had some very difficult years, 3-5 years ago. Could we have some more details on that? And obviously, we've seen in Germany, that's the country in Europe that's been the most impacted in this domain. Think if we have some more information on that.
Thank you, Laura. So first question on the UK. Have we got a specific contract that we signed recently? Yes. So in financial services, this is going to be a driver for the Q4, positive impact on Q4 and the coming years. It's a multi-annual contract, so that's obviously going to consolidate the situation in the UK. And then the next question on the SSCL put option over to Étienne.
No, we can't obviously link the put option, which was a legal option. We can't link this to contracts which are completely separate. Just on this matter, on this change, all of the contracts that we have, a long-term contract, some of them come to an end between the end of 2025 and 2029. So that's what we've got with SSCL. Then with regards to what we formerly called, in the past, what we call Cassiopae. The good news is that the operational issues we had are definitively behind us. We are no longer losing money, and we have generated slight growth in this domain. So that doesn't mean that we've got an aggressive, ambitious growth strategy, but we no longer have operational delivery issues for Cassiopae today.
Now, for Germany, this is a country that is experiencing recession. Nonetheless, we had good organic growth in the first half, and we should still have growth in the second half, and I think, 2024 should be a decent year as well. Yes, so we have a significant amount of financial services business in Germany, but there is slight growth here. The public sector is also a driver, so bear that in mind. That's basically equivalent to our share of financial services in Germany. So growth in financial services, public sector, this is a good driver for the end of the year. Just another question. With regards to the government's exits, so what about NHS? So obviously, they've got contracts, but they're also a shareholder, so that they're going to benefit from this.
What has driven this change? What are the limitations in terms of the platform for the government, and how do you see the future?
So, yes, I could understand the question you might be asking. Are there any risks? We now 100% own this undertaking. I'll just remind you of a few things, though. So the government has done the same thing with the seven other joint ventures that it has. It's done the same thing. Secondly, for 10 years now, we've been very competitive. We've won contracts, but we also lost contracts, and we had the Cabinet Office working alongside us. So we were in a very competitive situation. From my point of view, I think it enables us to clarify our positioning, especially in the UK.
It's been 10 years now that we've had everything set up. So I don't know whether having the Cabinet Office with us now, obviously, SSCL is very well established. We've delivered savings. So I think that's very positive. So I don't think it's a negative thing that we don't have the Cabinet Office with us now. Obviously, we'll have to pay attention to the upcoming deadlines that we have in 2025, make sure that we continue to move forward positively. That's all I can say about SSCL.
But what about margin? Are we talking about 11%-12% operational margin?
Yeah, above 10. Above 10. But we want to highlight the fact that this is a consistent policy. You know, we've had the original, the initial 10, 15 years-...
phase, and then this is obviously part of, this is a consistent part of the policy.
If you'd like to ask a question, please dial star one on your telephone keypad. Next question from Derric Marcon at Société Générale.
Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got three, the first of which is a technical but very simple question. The weight of recurring revenue in financial services, is it at the same level as the rest of the group? In the first half, it was 37%. Have we got the same thing in the financial services vertical? Second question, with regards to core banking or front office applications, we've seen that software vendors are performing well, like Temenos, for example. Are you seeing market appetite, strong market appetite, for things like cost cutting, which is being implemented by certain banks?
What about discretionary spending or the demand to modernize their core banking systems? So for software banking software, not necessarily for Q4, but looking forward into 2024, what can you say about market appetite? Is there a strong appetite on the market? And then my next question is on Ordina. Have we seen a deceleration in Q3 when compared to the first half? Are we expecting a lower level of growth in Q4? Or do you think growth will be aligned with previous quarters? Thank you.
With regards to the share of recurring revenue, when compared to the other vertical markets in the group, obviously, we've got, like, software with maintenance, that's recurring revenue, and then we've got subscription revenue as well, which is significantly increasing.
So yes, when we look at financial services, there's probably more recurring revenue in this vertical than the group's other verticals. So what about the 25%? Were you not talking about 20% in financial services in insurance? Does this include subscription, maintenance? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So now with regards to the market and front office applications, we are very lucid. We think that the banking sector is contracting. It's refocusing on TCO matters. That's the reality that we've observed. But there are also digital transformation requirements. Today, for example, we've seen that banks have observed that 85% of interactions with customers take place on an application, but only 10% of their revenues come from this stream. So the increase in revenue could come from an increase in revenues from this stream.
Then 54% of banks consider that cloud and using SaaS solutions represents the future of their operational models. So this figure is increasing year on year. So once again, this is going to put, bring significant transformation challenges, so front office as well. Even if we've got the digital development that we're doing is obviously feeding into the front office. And then the last point is that banks want to be connected with other stakeholders. They want to connect their systems, and this is also a driver for investment. So I think banks, they're working on their TCO, they're reducing maintenance and run costs, but they also want to have more room for maneuver to invest in digital transformation.
Then with regards to Ordina, we're expecting the same level of growth, 3%, 2%-4% in 2022, was at EUR 100 million. That's the basis for comparison.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. It would appear that we don't have any more questions, so I'll hand the floor back to Cyril Malargé for the conclusion.
So no specific comments other than saying thank you for connecting to this telephone call, and I wish you an excellent day and an excellent end of the week. Thank you very much and goodbye. Ladies and gentlemen, this conference has now finished. You can now hang up. Thank you very much and goodbye.