Hello, and welcome to the SPIE Nine Months 2021 Results. My name is Jess, and I'll be your coordinator for today's event. For the duration of the call, your lines will be on listen-only. However, there will be the opportunity to ask questions. This can be done by pressing star one on your telephone keypad to register your question at any time. If at any point you require assistance, please press star zero on your telephone keypad and you will be connected to an operator. I will now hand over to your host, Gauthier Louette, Chairman and CEO, to begin today's call. Thank you.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Gauthier Louette. I'm very pleased to welcome you to this Q3 conference call for SPIE. Our results for the first nine months of the year do confirm a strong rebound compared to 2020. I'm particularly pleased with the progress of our EBITDA margin, which now exceeds 2019 level with a good progress in Q3. Furthermore, we've been particularly active on the Bolt-on M&A front as we have completed seven acquisitions so far, totaling EUR 252 million of annual revenue. First, I would like to share with you some good examples of our expertise, in particular in helping customers to reduce their CO2 emissions.
In Scotland, we work for the Hearts, the oldest and most successful football club in Edinburgh, which is a customer since 2016. Recently, we replaced 176 halogen floodlights by 56 LED lamps at their Tynecastle Park stadium, thus reducing energy consumption by 78% and avoiding 34 tons of CO2 emissions per year. With this, the stadium is now compliant with UEFA criteria. Believe it or not, the Hearts have not been defeated at home since the new lights were installed. In Rostock, Germany, we're implementing a new high voltage transfer station for a combined heat and power plant. This existing substation cannot support the new plant due to the very specific constraints in terms of energy supply. We're in charge of all steps from planning and commissioning to handover of the new installations, which includes sophisticated gas-insulated switchgear.
As you know, Germany has embarked on a complete shift in its energy mix, requiring major changes to its entire transmission and distribution network. As the number one service provider to the German grid, we are very well positioned to support this transition. In the same vein, electric vehicles are part of the solutions to reduce CO2 emissions, and it requires massive investments in charging stations. In Rüsselsheim, in Germany, we're installing 500 charging points for the local Stadtwerke, including standard and fast chargers at three public car parks. This contract is a good example of how we can leverage on a framework agreement for network services. We have such an agreement with the Stadtwerke Rüsselsheim since five years, and we have been able to build on this existing agreement to offer the services of e-mobility.
In France, in the wake of COVID-19, air quality in commercial spaces is as crucial as it has ever been. SPIE France is deploying a cutting-edge digital turnkey solution that can destroy almost 100% of harmful viruses in the treated air. The solution handles everything from data collection to managing physical on-site operation. It is a good example of how by joining ICS and facility management expertise, we're able to innovate for the benefit of our customers. Now to the highlights. Key highlights for this nine months. Group revenue was in line with pre-crisis level. EBITDA margin stood above 2019 level. We delivered strong Bolt-on M&A focused on Germany and Central Europe and on ICT services. On the back of this first nine months, we further improved our full-year outlook. Looking to the main figures.
Our nine months revenue is in line with pre-crisis level, while our EBITDA margin is higher. Our nine months organic growth was at +5.6%. Total revenue growth was at +6.2%, and it is 0.4% above nine months 2019 level. Our nine months EBITDA margin improved by 140 basis points compared to 2020, and it is 10 basis points above 2019. In Q3, our EBITA margin improvement was solid, up 80 basis points compared to 2020 and up 30 basis points versus 2019. I will elaborate later on the Q3 revenue evolution. The nine months revenue confirmed a strong rebound versus 2020. Now on slide 10.
Organic growth was at 5.6% year-on-year, driven by a strong rebound in France and the continued progress in Germany and in Central Europe. At constant forex, nine months growth reached +6.5%, including a 0.9% contribution from acquisition, mainly from Germany and Central Europe, which as you know, is a priority for our M&A strategy. On slide 11, taking a closer look at our Q3, revenue was up 1% year-on-year at constant forex. It was slightly down organically by 1.5%, while acquisition contributed 2.5%. Activity levels were high in France and in Germany. Germany in particular, at +0.2% organic, had a very demanding comparison basis with a 4.6 organic growth in Q3 2020.
Oil and gas and nuclear revenue rebounded with +5.6%. Revenue decreased organically by 11% in Northwestern Europe, mainly due to a lower commercial installation activity in the U.K., as well as phasing impacts in telecom services in the Netherlands. On slide 12, our nine months EBITDA amounted to almost EUR 2,270 million. It was up 42.3% compared to the same period of 2020. EBITDA margin reached 5.4%, 140 basis points above nine months 2020. The good news is that we are now above 2019 level by 10 basis point at the end of September. This has enabled us to further improve our full year guidance to an EBITDA margin above 2019 level at 6.1%.
On slide 13, Bolt-on M&A. It is key to SPIE's value creation model. We have been very active since the beginning of the year, with seven acquisitions totaling EUR 252 million in full- year revenue. This is well ahead of our initial target of EUR 200 million. In Germany and Central Europe, we acquired EUR 177 million of revenue with five acquisitions in key segments such as automation systems, telecom networks, HVAC, and tunnel systems. In France, we acquired EUR 75 million of revenue with two acquisitions, of which a significant one in data center infrastructure, an area where we were already present, and it makes us quite a leader in this market. Maybe a word on our sharing plan for 2021. It has been a resounding success.
As you know, employee sharing is a key component of our culture to engage our people towards our long-term performance objective, and it is a strong element of people retention. Our latest plan[inaudible] share for you 2021, has brought 11,000 employees from 13 different countries who subscribed to the plan, and this compares to 6,100 last year. Notably, it includes 3,500 employees subscribing for the first time. Pending the final results, which will be announced in December, the estimated total investment from SPIE employees will be more than EUR 33 million, and up to 2.5 million new shares will be issued in December. At the end of the year, employee and management should then represent close to 10% of SPIE's share capital. Now moving to our activity by segment, and starting with France.
France enjoyed a continued good momentum. Against a solid market backdrop, organic growth was 13.6% over the first 9 months, and revenue was 1% above nine months level. By segment, TechFM is driven by growing customer needs in energy efficiency and digital solution in the wake of also the new regulation enforcing energy saving in French commercial buildings. Activity in telecom network and smart city services remained high, while commercial installation was robust. Industrial services were still below pre-COVID levels, mainly due to our aeronautic customers. We see some element of improvement, and especially it does reflect in our tendering activity and order intake in the industrial segment. On slide 17, Germany and Central Europe, they did deliver a dynamic growth. Total organic growth for the nine months was at +3.4%, including 4.2% in Germany.
The impact from external growth was +2.8% from the five acquisitions already mentioned. After an excellent first half, revenue in Germany remained at a high level in Q3, stable compared to a very demanding 2020 comparison basis, where the 4.6% organic growth in Q3 2020. Business services in transmission and distribution services for key enablers of the energy transition remain sustainably high. Technical Facility Management and Information Communication Services were robust, and building technology and automation benefited from high activity levels in data centers. In the rest of the segment, Switzerland reported good growth, while Central European countries were down overall due to delays in high-voltage projects in Hungary and Slovakia.
Regarding Northwestern Europe, the segment decreased organically by 2.6% over the first nine months of 2021, and the disposal of U.K. mobile maintenance activities in March 2020 had a 1.1% impact. Revenue in the U.K. decreased in Q3, primarily due to a low activity in commercial and solution and in particular in data center, where had been fairly high same time last year. The rest of the U.K. business was broadly stable, especially we registered a very decent performance in Scotland. In the Netherlands, revenue in telecom services was temporarily impacted by optical fiber contract phasing and I insist on temporarily because we have a good backlog going forward. Industry services remain somewhat subdued, while market trends were excellent in energy, transport, and wet infrastructure.
In Belgium, the building sector remained affected, while demand was high in energy and transport infrastructure services. We have registered good order intake, especially in substations with the main Belgian operator, Elia, and it bodes well for the future. Now, in oil and gas and nuclear on slide 19. The oil and gas and nuclear segment revenue grew organically by 9.9% in the first nine months of this year, thanks to a 5.6% rebound in Q3. Currency movement accounted for -2.4% year to date, of course, primarily stemming from the euro-U.S. dollar variation. Oil and gas services revenue rebounded in Q3 thanks to a slight improvement in the market backdrop and also from our side, a good commercial performance.
After a strong H1, nuclear services continued to grow in Q3 despite the ongoing workload reduction on the Flamanville EPR contract. As you have seen, the recent report published by RTE, France's transmission grid operator, suggests that nuclear should remain a key component of the French energy mix in the coming 50 years, with the number of traditional and also more innovative solutions coming to bear in the next years. It is really good news for the long-term prospect of this activity. Now we'll hand over to Michel, who will comment on our financial performance.
Thank you, Gauthier, and good morning, everyone. I'm on slide 21. As Gauthier already pointed out, we achieved a strong rebound in all key figures. For the first 9 months of the year, revenue reached EUR 5.031 billion, up 6.2% and above 2019 level in line with our full year guidance. EBITA was EUR 270 million, up 42% above 2019 level as well. EBITA margin was at 5.4%, up 140 basis points compared to 2020 and up 10 basis points above 2019 level. In Q3 alone, as already mentioned, revenue growth was softer, but EBITA margin improved significantly. Revenue reached EUR 1.735 billion, up 1.1%.
EBITA was EUR 110 million, up 14.4% and above 2019 level as well. EBITA margin was at 6.4%, up 80 basis points compared to 2020 and up 30 basis points above 2019 level. Let's have a look now on the revenue bridge on slide 22. Our revenue increased by 6.2% over the first nine months. This takes into account a 6.5% increase at constant forex, of which plus 5.6% organic growth. The impact from acquisition was +1.1%, and it will be mechanically more significant in Q4 considering the phasing of our 2021 acquisitions. I remind you that the negative -0.2 impact from disposal is due to the disposal of the U.K. mobile maintenance activities last year.
On slide 23, we detect the quarterly development of our EBITA margin. First, it shows the usual seasonal pattern of our EBITA margin, which increases quarter- after- quarter. Second, it gives you the comparison with the 2019 margins. During the first two quarters, 2021 margins were similar to those of 2019. In Q3, the 2021 margin reached 6.4% with 30 basis points improvement compared to 2019, leading to a 10 basis points improvement over the first nine months of the year that you can see on the right side of the chart. Compared to 2019, we are delivering a remarkable improvement in Northwestern Europe, thanks to our reorganization in the U.K. and our performance spend in the Netherlands, both conducted last year. At the same time, margin gaps with 2019 continue to narrow in France and in Germany and Central Europe.
These trends evidence a clear potential for group margin to increase further in 2022. This concludes my part, and I will now hand back to Gauthier.
Yeah, thank you, Michel. As you see on slide 25, we further improve our 2021 outlook as we now expect group revenue at or above 2019 level. EBITA margin above 2019 level at 6.1%. We were previously targeting at 2019 level of 6%. Full year revenue to be acquired through both acquisitions were in excess of EUR 250 million and a strong reduction in the group severance expected at around 200 at year-end. Beyond 2022, darker skies for SPIE. Our positioning as a key neighbor of the energy transition is opening vast business opportunities already visible in our dynamic order intake, which in certain areas is in two-digit growth.
This will definitely enhance our growth as soon as 2022 and our margin. Regarding margin, the improvement we already see in 2021 bodes well for what we will expect for 2022. I remind you that we are keeping in mind a 6.5% target in not distant future. Now this presentation will not be complete without a few words on ESG. On slide 26. As you know, last September we held an investor day focused on ESG to emphasize how the energy transition is at the core of our services. We are a pioneer in the implementation of the EU taxonomy for sustainable activities, and 41% of our 2020 revenue was taxonomy aligned. For 2025, we target that 50% of our revenue will be taxonomy aligned.
Beyond the taxonomy, we can evidence that circa 70% of our activities contribute to the energy transition. Most of SPIE's customers are stepping up their efforts and commitments towards decarbonized energy efficiency and sustainable mobility. These efforts will be compounded by European stimulus plans that aim at making Europe more sustainable, more digital and more resilient. This is and will translate into a favorable market momentum for multi-technical services, and it will support our organic growth in the coming years. To finish on slide 27, let me remind you our CSR commitments regarding carbon footprint, safety at work, and gender diversity. We target to reduce our greenhouse gas emission Scope 1 and 2 by 25% by 2025.
Regarding Scope 3 emissions, which primarily result from procured goods and services, we target to have in 2025, 67% of such emissions coming from suppliers having set ambitious carbon footprint reduction targets. These two targets are currently being validated through the Science Based Targets initiative. With regard to safety, it is and remains our top priority, and the group safety management policy places a particular focus on preventing severe accidents. We aim to halve the number of employee severe accidents in 2025. However, our true and obviously only acceptable target should be zero severe accidents. Finally, regarding diversity policy, we target to add 25% more women to key management positions by 2025 through internal promotion and recruitment. As you know, CSR commitments are not an option, they are shared within all our organization.
We strongly believe that strong CSR commitments offer a solid foundation for long-term sustainable value creation. This concludes our presentation, and we are now ready to take your questions.
If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. Please note your line is unmuted as you will be advised when to ask your question. Once again, that's star one if you would like to ask a question. The first question comes from the line of Ebrahim Homani from CIC. Please go ahead.
Hello. Thank you for taking my question. I have two questions, if I may. The first one is about the activity in Northwestern Europe. Can you give us more details on these activities and what is the part of revenue generated in the Netherlands? The second one is about your employees. Do you face any difficulties in hiring new employees or is it okay now for you?
Well, regarding Northwestern activities, the impact I've mentioned, they cut off for roughly a loss of EUR 20 million in revenue. In the U.K. the whole year is roughly EUR 250 million, and the Netherlands is three times as much. Well, clearly in the U.K. we had a strong drop and we did trim down the business significantly in the last 18 months, yeah. On top of that, which was not the plan, we had much lower activity in data center in Q3, and it will be the same in Q4 as opposed to last year.
However, the fact that we have really worked on the structure in the U.K. allows us to work with a lower volume and still maintain you know a small margin and positive cash generation. Well, the market is what it is, and our position is you know not easy on the U.K. market, with clearly a very subdued commercial installation activity right now. We are managing to deal with the situation without creating a loss in U.K., which is a vast improvement compared to the previous years.
Regarding Netherlands, as I said, it's the industry activity is not as strong as it was in the past, but again, we see positive signs going forward and we have a good level of activity with TenneT. It could have been a bit better, but TenneT had a few issues in terms of processing projects, but the backdrop is very strong and we completely align with the energy transition and we see good activity in the balance of infrastructure. Really the main issue is phasing of optic fiber. Again, we have a good backlog and customers talking to us for further work next year.
I think next year will be very active in optic fiber. Clearly there was a lull which we see in this quarter. Regarding employee attraction and employee retention, well, it is a very important issue. That is also why we insist and we work on employee sharing plans because it's really a good way to keep people and create a strong bond with the company. I was very pleased with the success of this plan this year. In certain countries, we have more than doubled the number of participants, so it's really gaining momentum. All together, we are dealing with a situation where the backdrop is clearly a shortage of technical skills.
That's why it is very important first to keep the ones you have and make sure that they're happy and at ease with the company, and also to attract new ones. So far, as I say, we are dealing with the situation. The fact that we are market leaders in a number of countries does help. The fact that we are a pure player, it does help as well, because really people recognize that they are at the core of our business and we also through various plans we share the value creation with them. We are doing okay, but we have to be very conscious of the issue. This is also why we are stepping up our policies of apprentices.
As you know, we are roughly 5% apprentices and we're really paying a lot of attention to that, make sure that the apprentices stay once they have completed the course, that they do stay with us.
Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Charles-Louis Scotti from Kepler. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good morning, everyone. I've got three questions, if I may. The first one, your full- year guidance suggests a return to 2019 sales level, and then it suggests a strong Q4 performance, up 5% like for like, despite tougher comps. What makes you confident to achieve such a sales growth in Q4? My second question on the phasing of telecommunication contract, optical fiber rollout in Netherlands. Is this due to clients' decision or is it because you lack fiber, you lack equipment and components? More generally speaking, are you impacted negatively by the shortage of components in your business? Do you think it might affect your 2022 performance?
Finally, third question on stimulus plan. Do you see the first benefit of the stimulus plan across Europe, or is it too early? Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you. Regarding Q4, we do expect continued good trends in France and in Germany. We are looking at continued improvement in oil and gas services, and we think that Northwestern Europe will be sequentially better. This is what we see for Q4. In terms of margin, we see continued good trend in Q4, you know, in the same vein as what we have seen in Q3. Regarding the FTTH contracts, in essence, now it is linked with customer decision and their own pace of processing the tenders or the awards.
It is not linked with shortage of fiber. We have not experienced this so far. Generally, the issue of shortage of components, we have been affected in some areas. It is more diffuse. You know, I could give a few example. As you know, Cisco is the first supplier of SPIE, and in certain areas, Cisco has been hard put to come up with deliveries. We also, I know we have an example with Orange and with, as you say, we are installing 5G antennas on pylons supplied by Orange. There is a bit of a bottleneck there.
What happened is that they're trying to change the design and accommodate with the existing pylons that they have or the deliveries that they get. Yeah, it has brought a bit of tension in this area. It does happen, for instance, over the summer, we had to decline bidding for an automation job for an automotive company in France because we knew that we were not able to get the automation components in time, and there was a very slow timeframe for this project during a shutdown. A few minor things here and there. So far, not too much of a disruption, and we've been able to cope with this.
The stimulus plan, yeah, it is. What happens now is, we see much more tendering initiatives for customers linked with a number of topics deriving from the stimulus plan. For instance, energy efficiency in public buildings in France. We see a lot of e-mobility. It is all the rage right now, and also a number of projects pertaining to hydrogen. This is more recent, but we start to see some discussion with the customers and coming tendering activity in this area. I think the stimulus plan is well in the minds of our customers, and it will translate in activity in 2022.
Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Oscar Val from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good morning, Gauthier and Michel. Just two questions from me. The first one is a follow-up on employee scarcity. Could you comment on what level of wage inflation you are seeing and the ability you have to pass that through? The second question is, you mentioned e-mobility is growing. Could you give us a sense of how large that is in revenue terms today, and how quickly e-mobility and EV charging is growing? Thank you.
Well, regarding inflation, well, first, the wage inflation is within limits, so we're talking 2%-3% compared to maybe slightly less last year. It is well within limits at the moment. And well, we have a number of countries which are impacted by a collective labor agreement with IG Metall or with the Fédération Nationale des Travaux Publics, you know, depending on the countries, or some industrial groups in the Netherlands. It's reasonable in a couple of percent, so sometimes as I screen in the negotiations which are taking place now.
This is not a big issue. It is always passed to the customers either through indexation formulas or because our portfolio rotates quickly. Anyway, when we budget for the next year, we always take a provision for salary inflation. It has never been too much of an issue. The issue is more to find the people. Clearly, in some areas, our own customers, you know, would attract our people, which obviously has always existed, is probably intensifying a bit right now. Generally, inflation impacts to pass through.
I think we have had the question several times in the previous years, and I don't think you have seen any impact on our margin or on our margin progression. You know, we are here in the same spot as we have been in the past, so no major concern regarding this. Regarding e-mobility, right now it is still below 1% of our revenue, but it's growing, and it's growing fast. It's growing double-digit. We do see an acceleration of the demand from our customers. It's really pertaining to all type of activities.
I gave the example recently of a contract we gained for the Rijkswaterstaat in the Netherlands, where we are going to install, I think, more than 1,000 charging points on the lock sites of Rijkswaterstaat for their own use. We are seeing with a number of commercial buildings where they want more charging points. Clearly, we are bidding on fast chargers or on all the development of charging points along the highways, et cetera. As it happens, well, we think we just, I say, think because they have a two weeks retention period, but normally, we have won new contracts in this area as recently as yesterday.
I would say it's, you know, it is a fast-growing market. Again, it is very technical, and especially when you're talking fast chargers, superchargers, and we are in a very good position there.
Great. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Eric Lemarié from Bryan, Garnier & Co. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. The first one on France. In Q3, do you see any sort of slowdown of the business? Because it looks like the organic growth turned slightly negative in Q3, or at least when we look at the nine months versus 2019, it's negative, while it was positive as of June. I don't know if there is something there. A second question on the U.K. and the difficulties you mentioned regarding data centers. Is there a specific explanation behind that? Because usually when we talk about data center, it's always for positive news. A third question regarding your top line performance in Q4 this year. I understand the U.K. difficulties will last in the last quarter.
Do you confirm the phasing issue in the Netherlands will disappear in Q4 this year?
Regarding France, altogether the underlying trends are good. We are comparing. First, we had a positive organic growth in Q3 this year in France compared to Q3 2021. We had organic growth of 1.4%. Compared to 2019, in 2019 in France, we had at Q3 a growth of 7%. We're organic. We're comparing with a very strong Q3. As you'll remember, 2019 was strong in France with a positive organic growth of 5%, so and 7% at Q3.
The element of comparison compared to 2019 is very different.
Yeah.
In U.K., it is linked to one customer. We tend to do every year one data center for this customer. Now, the customer has been bought over by another company, and the whole team has changed from customer side, and they decided to try a new supplier. You know, clearly, it happens very rapidly. Our plans were well-aligned to get another data center as usual every year. You know, the plan went wrong. You know, this is a very specific element. Now what we are trying to do, obviously, to redeploy the competencies we have towards other customer. Also building on the relationship we have with data center operators elsewhere in Europe. Since the U.K. is relatively small nowadays, well, the impact is significant, yeah.
For catch up in the phasing in the Netherlands in Q4, we think that the trend will be more favorable for this optical fiber contracts starting. As I said, also very good prospect for next year in this area. We're really looking at a different pattern from Q4 onwards.
Okay. That's very clear. Thank you.
The next question comes from the line of Rory McKenzie from UBS. Please go ahead.
Good morning. It's Rory here. Firstly, great to hear about the home form of Heart of Midlothian. My first question is actually whether all those magic lights that my team as well, that'd be great given what we've been doing. Anyway, my first actual question is on, again, the kind of organic revenue momentum. Thanks for the detail on Northwest Europe and France. Maybe just in Germany and Central Europe, you know, you were up kind of 4%-5% through H1 compared to 2019. That's now flattish in Q3. I appreciate, you know, comps are moving around, but given the amount of new work and expansion in that market, I'm surprised there's not more kind of sequential growth still ongoing.
Is this just timing, and can you maybe talk about the new contracts you see ramping up into next year? My second question is on the Q3 margin expansion. I think it implies about a 70% incremental margin on the kind of small amounts of revenue growth you saw, which is of course very unusual. Can you just help us understand, you know, how much was mix, you know, of that drop in Northwest Europe you've described, and what the kind of underlying productivity pricing or cost improvements were? Just trying to work out what, you know, a sustainable drop through or sustainable margin level is as we look forwards. Thank you.
Regarding Germany, again, last year we had a very strong Q3 in Germany. We had a growth of 4%, or even a bit more, more like 4.6% in Q3 2020. Obviously, the comparator is fairly high as well. Now you always have some elements of sequencing, but the trend remains strong. Altogether, compared to 2019, we have a growth in Q3 of 4.9%. 4.6% compared to 2020, 4.9% compared to 2019.
The trends are strong in Germany and that said, you have some variation from one quarter to the next because you have some fluctuation in certain type of contract. Altogether the trends remain strong and are strong going forward. We are really looking at further growth in 2022 in Germany with a lot of new things coming into play.
Regarding the margin, I think it is clearly a lot of the improvement is coming from Northwestern Europe, and this is on the back of the improvement plans we had implemented last year, where we mentioned last year that we are working a lot on the reorganization in the U.K. and adapting to a new level, dealing with the sales of mobile, and then resizing all the structure in the U.K. It does their full time. Compared to a loss-making business same time last year, we are slightly positive now, and with much reduced volume. It really shows that all the efforts have really been fruitful and successful. Same goes for the Netherlands.
We did trim down quite significantly last year at overhead level and also in the industrial part. It brings a good improvement in the EBIT. It might be worth mentioning also that the FTTH project we are tendering right now are being tendered at very satisfying margin. Really a lot of improvement coming from Northwestern Europe. As we go with France and Germany, we are constantly reducing the gap we still have compared to last year and due to the heat of the sanitary crisis. We think that this gap will be totally offset by the end of the year, which bodes well for further progress on margin in 2022 in both countries.
Yeah.
This is what I see.
Is the Netherlands your highest margin country now?
No. Netherlands is we're trading at, you know, let's say, 5.5 or something like that. But it's not the end of the story, but this is where we are now, and we're looking at further improvement for next year. No best, no France and Germany are above six.
Yeah.
Obviously we still have very high margins in nuclear and in oil and gas.
Perfect. Very helpful. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Jan de Peirlack from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Good morning. I have just one question on M&A. Will you update your midterm target to acquire EUR 200 million per year to maybe EUR 300 million, or is it something possible?
Well, it's not out of reach in a given year. I think, well, this year, as you've seen, we were closer to 260, and it's possible that we strike another deal before the end of the year. We still have a negotiation for Britain acquisition in Germany and Central Europe area. Going forward, I think that what we'd like to do is obviously keep a very strong focus on Germany and Central Europe, but also maybe be a bit more active in France again.
I'm not saying that the guidance will be EUR 200 million for next year, but with also a very much improved leverage, I think we could probably look at something probably midway as normative guidance going forward, yeah.
Okay. Maybe in terms of prices, do you see inflation or is it still stable?
Well, there's some more inflation on salaries as we mentioned, which remains-
Sorry. Inflation on prices.
No, no. As you see, the multiples we have been dealing with are remaining in our usual range. We keep a discipline, and so we really work on the usual range. No, no change there.
Okay, great. Thank you.
The next question comes from the line of Nicolas Tabor from Stifel. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Thank you very much for taking my question. The first one will be just to have an idea of the price versus volume you had in the organic growth over the first nine months of the year. Then, regarding the net working capital, can we have, say I don't know, I know it's not the H1 results for full year, but we have an idea on how that is progressing and is it on track for what you're seeing for the full year? Then, regarding the stimulus plans, you were guiding during the CMD of an acceleration of +0.5%-1.5% organic growth from the new trend.
Should we expect that to materialize from 2022, maybe more H2 2022? Or do you have some visibility with the tenders ongoing at the moment? And then finally on oil and gas and nuclear, how should we think about it for Q4, further slowdown in Flamanville, further rebound in oil and gas? I mean, what's the trend you're seeing at the moment? Thank you very much.
Well, it's impossible to do the price volume exercise, and we were doing so many different things, and there's not a unit we can use to split the top line between the two impacts. I cannot answer this question. I had the question in the past. It's just impossible in our type of service. I will jump to the second part of your question and then, this is the working capital to Michel. Regarding the stimulus plan, yeah, we think it will have an impact definitely on 2022, for the reason I've just mentioned. We see the tenders upcoming in this area.
We are the 0.5%-1.5% incremental organic growth we've mentioned. We do think that this will be reflected in our targets for 2022. For oil and gas and nuclear in Q4, I think, we'll have it will still be growing on the EPR workload. Well, it is a constant decline, but there are many other things happening in the nuclear segment right now. Oil and gas also is positively oriented. We see further growth in Q4.
Thank you very much.
On our working capital, Nicolas, as you know, we don't publish a balance sheet at quarters, but I can tell you that we are on track. I think this is your question. Are we still on track? The answer is yes. If you remember, we were at minus 22 days at end of June, and we were at minus 37 days end of last year, excluding the postponement of social charges and taxes. Our goal is to be better than last year underlying performance. This is fully in line with the confirmation of our guidance for the leverage. What is important for us is to get to a leverage of two. We were 2.4 last year.
We are on track and of course the effort is maintained and we expect to be able to give you good news when we publish our full year results.
Great to hear. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Patrick Jousseaume from Société Générale . Please go ahead.
Hello, good morning. Can you hear me?
Yeah.
Okay, perfect. Three questions on my side. First question, regarding U.K., you mentioned in the past that it was a sort of dilemma with activity in the U.K. with a lot of concern and a small part of your revenue.
Could you elaborate a bit on that? Second question regarding France. You have booked EUR 9 million of cost. Is it what we should have for the full year? Finally, regarding your guidance to come back to a level of activity comparable with 2019, in 2020, the organic decrease was -5%, if I am not wrong. This suggests that you need 5.3% over the full year for coming back to the level of 2019. Is that right, or are there, let's say, moving parts that make my calculation wrong?
Regarding U.K., well, yes, it is now a small part of the revenue, and this is not, it's no longer a leader. We see again we have three bits in the U.K. We have Scotland, which is doing well at positive margin. We have our facility business which is also doing well. We have commercial installation which is having a hard time. As you see, I mean, a good 60% of the business is very robust, resilient, stabilized. Commercial installation, well, we're able to deal with reduced level of activity.
It is more a market issue than an internal issue at the moment. We keep this dilemma in mind, as always, you have to consider the timing, well, and so far, we think it is not the right time to make any sort of decision. Regarding France, yeah, we're looking at EUR 9 million costs, and it will be for the full year, and there's nothing else coming. For 2019, in terms of revenue comparison, as you know, we give a guidance of total revenue, including scope effects and the foreign exchange, not organic growth, compared to 2019.
This is our guidance has been done, and we are still on track, and there's no change in this regard.
Thank you.
The next question comes from the line of Christophe Chaput from Oddo. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good morning, gentlemen. The question for me regarding acquisition has already been asked. One remains for me on organic, regarding 2022, because it seems that the backlog is strong or let's say robust, plus you will have the recovery plan. Would you say at the end of the day that the organic should be above 2% or above 3%? Any insight regarding that would be very appreciated. Thank you.
We are really in the midst of working on our budget for next year. As you know, at SPIE it is a bottom-up exercise starting in September in the local branches, and we'll be reviewing this in the weeks to come. A bit early to say, but generally, the figures you have mentioned do not seem, you know, out of the ballpark. But again, we have to really understand where is our backlog, et cetera, and what are the trends.
Definitely, we're looking at improving organic growth in 2022.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
The next question comes from the line of Peter Testa from One Investments. Please go ahead.
Hi, thank you for taking the question. I guess in relation to the last point, you've obviously commented on the stimulus impact and coming through. I was wondering if, just focusing on France and Germany, if you could give a sense of what's going on in the broader sense on backlog and pipeline. I have a second question after.
I mean, in terms of backlog, for instance, in the Netherlands, we would be looking at a good backlog for next year. We have some also some optical fiber projects panning out. My comment in terms of the backlog was not focused on France and Germany. It pertains to the group.
Yeah. My question was more on France and Germany. Sorry. I understood you were giving a group comment, but just specifically France and Germany, please.
Well, definitely in France and Germany, we're really building a good backlog for next year in terms of size and in terms of margin. These are more obviously the two largest operations within SPIE, and both of them, we're planning for decent organic growth, margin improvement, and this on the back of an evidenced strong backlog.
Right. Okay. The other question, please, was just on employee count. I was wondering again, more focusing on France and Germany, if you could give any sense of what the sequential net employee count has been in Q3 versus Q2, and maybe other comment on what your hiring intentions are at this stage, given your comments on stimulus. Are you starting to try and push harder on recruitment or any comment, please?
Well, the headcount in France and Germany, you know, we're roughly at 20,000 in France, 13,000 in Germany. The headcount is growing at the moment in both countries. We are every year at SPIE . Even last year we recruited in the range of 3,000 people. This year we're looking at recruiting, you know, in the range of 4,000-4,500. It is a constant exercise to recruit people, you know, to cope with the growth and also to replace people leaving, you know, natural attrition, et cetera.
The resignation rate is low, and we're looking at 5%. That's our 5%-6% resignation rate. It doesn't change dramatically. On the contrary, it has decreased this year in Germany. This is the order of magnitude of the people flow we have every year.
That's great. Thank you very much for the answers.
There are no further questions in the queue, so I will hand the call back to your host for some closing comments.
Well, thank you very much for attending this conference. As you see, we have a strong results for Q3. The slight decrease in organic growth should not be a worry. Again, it has a very specific and time limited reasons. We're really looking at a strong backlog building up for 2022, and really good prospects for next year, both in level of activity, in further margin improvement and also stronger bolt-on acquisition, going forward. I think we're in good shape. As I always say, it's really a good time to be an electrical engineer. Thank you very much for your attention. Have a good day.
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