Aroundtown SA (ETR:AT1)
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May 8, 2026, 5:35 PM CET
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Earnings Call: Q3 2024

Nov 27, 2024

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Good morning to all of you. Thank you for joining us for Aroundtown's nine months of 2024 results call. You can view this presentation on Aroundtown's website, either on the home section or under Financial Reports of the Investor Relations section. I am Katrin Petersen, Aroundtown Group, Head of Communications, and with me today will be CEO, Barak Bar-Hen, CFO, Eyal Ben David, Chief Capital Markets Officer, Oschrie Massatschi, Executive Director, Frank Roseen, Head of Investor Relations, Timothy Wright, Chief Sustainability Officer, Limor Birmann, and representatives from Grand City Properties are also present. For the duration of the call, all participants will be on a listen-only mode. Following our presentation, you will have the opportunity to ask questions, but please feel free to send us your questions via email, also during the presentation. The email address is info@aroundtown.de.

With that, I would like to hand you over to Barak to start with the presentation.

Barak Bar-Hen
CEO, Aroundtown SA

Thank you, Katrin, and a very good morning, everyone. With improving microeconomic and capital market sentiment, we believe the outlook for the real estate market is now more positive. ECB started its rate cut cycle, which has helped foster optimism, and transaction activity is picking up again, providing greater stability and certainty to property values. Subject to market not experiencing another setback, we are seeing signs that on average, we have reached the bottom of the current cycle with the H1 revaluation. During this time, we continued disposing properties around book value and managing our leverage, and will continue to do so in the coming periods as we look to strengthen our balance sheet and further reduce leverage. Looking ahead, we see that the environment is now more supportive for deleveraging measures, with stable to slightly increasing values and more active transaction markets.

Over the nine-month period, we also continued to take proactive steps to strengthen our financial position. Notably, we successfully executed several capital market transactions, including perpetual notes, exchanges, and tender offers in Q2 and Q3, as well as senior unsecured bond issuances in Q3. These transactions received strong investor demand and positive feedback, reinforcing our standing in the market, and the perpetual exchanges allowed us to regain equity content for the exchanged perpetuals under S&P rating methodology, while also reducing future coupon payments, thereby supporting the FFO. While in recent periods the focus has been mainly on deleveraging, we continue to execute on our operational strategy. As we mentioned in our H1 results, we reopened three large hotels in Brussels, Rome, and Paris.

We are also upgrading hotels and converting selected office properties into service apartments, which will allow us to lift the internal growth potential within our portfolio. We will provide more details on this later in the presentation. On slide four, we summarize our financial performance for the period. Net rental income decreased only by 1% year-over-year, despite disposals, as we achieved a 3% like-for-like growth in net rental income as of September 2024, and despite this decline, adjusted EBITDA saw a 1% increase year-over-year. Our FFO 1 amounted to EUR 236 million, and the FFO 1 per share stood at EUR 0.22, down 4% year-over-year, as our internal growth and operational gains were offset by higher perpetual coupons levels and increased finance expenses.

Our nine-month result will position us to meet the upper end of the guidance range, which was already increased with the publication of the H1 2024 results. The combination of robust operational results and reduced cost of debt is driving better bottom-line results. We continue to maintain a conservative debt profile with significant headroom to our bond covenants, LTV of 44% as of September 2024, and a strong liquidity position of EUR 3.3 billion, covering 23% of our debt. With EUR 1.5 billion of financing raised year-to-date across bonds and bank loans, we maintain access to all our diverse funding sources, thereby eliminating the refinancing risk of the past years. We did not revalue the portfolio in Q3, but will conduct a full portfolio valuation as part of our full year report.

Further details on our financial position and KPIs will be covered in the upcoming slides. Oschrie, please continue.

Oschrie Massatschi
Chief Capital Markets Officer, Aroundtown SA

Thank you, Barak. On slide 5, we provide a short summary of key achievements and strengths with a strong momentum and positive outlook. Our operational performance has been robust, particularly in the residential and hotel portfolios, as a result of strong demand and operational improvements, which make up the majority of our portfolios. We achieved in this period a 2% positive rental income like-for-like in our office portfolio, and believe demand will pick up once the German economy will grow again, supported by rate cuts. Early elections in February next year may prove itself as a positive catalyst for this turnaround. While we experienced some devaluation in the first half of the year, the momentum has reduced significantly, and we believe we have reached trough levels, and going forward, the outlook is more positive. We believe there is a potential for value increase driven by operational growth.

On the green front, as part of our initiatives to certify the whole portfolio. We've also begun implementing green building certifications across our hotel portfolio. On the disposal side, we continue to make progress, which is further strengthening our balance sheet and enhancing our financial flexibility. Finally, with a successful completion of recent capital market transactions, we've effectively removed refinancing risk, ensuring greater flexibility to utilize our cash. Moving to slide seven, we provide an update on our disposal progress. Year to date, we signed EUR 630 million in disposals around book value. Over the nine-month period of 2024, we completed EUR 440 million of disposals around book value, achieving an average rental multiple of 17x.

These sales span across all asset types, with the majority being residential and office properties, as well as building rights, and are primarily in London, Berlin, Rotterdam and non-core locations. While transaction activity has slowed significantly since interest rates began rising in 2022, we've consistently managed to sell across all asset classes in the portfolio, highlighting the strength of our diversified portfolio. Additionally, we continue to capitalize on development rights in top locations. As land and development rights remain scarce in prime areas, we are able to attract interested buyers for these rights, allowing us to further crystallize the value created in the portfolio from obtaining these rights. On slide 8, we present an overview of our portfolio, which has remained broadly unchanged. The portfolio continues to be well distributed across prime locations in Germany, the Netherlands and London, which together represent 89% of the total portfolio.

Within these key regions, the portfolio is further diversified across top-tier cities. Berlin makes up 24%, London 8%, and both Frankfurt and Munich each account for 7%. These cities remain our largest market, where we continue to see strong long-term fundamentals and significant upside potential, especially in the mid to long term. Further detailed breakdowns can be found in the appendix. Moving to slide 9, we provide an update on our key portfolio metrics and tenant base. As of September 2024, the portfolio is valued at EUR 24 billion, with an annualized recurring net rental income of EUR 1.15 billion, reflecting a rental yield of 5.1%. The portfolio's vault remains strong at over 7 years. The maturity schedule is well balanced, with no significant concentration of leases expiring in any single year.

Vacancy stands at 7.6%, slightly lower compared to December 2023, while in-place rent is slightly higher at 10.9 EUR per square meter. With 25% reversionary potential across the portfolio, we continue to have significant internal growth potential to extract in the coming years, while also providing downside protection. Our tenant base remains highly diversified, with over 3,000 commercial tenants and further supported by a highly granular residential segment. The top ten tenants continue to account for less than 20% of total rental income, with very low dependency on any single tenant. On slide 10, we provide an update on our office portfolio. The majority of our office portfolio remains concentrated in our top four locations, Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich and Amsterdam, which together represent 60% of the total office portfolio.

58% of our office portfolio is BREEAM certified, reflecting a steady increase from 29% just one year ago. As of September 2024, we've seen like-for-like rental growth of 2% in the office portfolio, driven by indexation and rent reversion. Vacancy levels have reduced slightly over the quarter. The tenant structure continues to be strong and well diversified, with around 75% of tenants coming from the public sector, as well as multinational corporations and large domestic companies. With improving macroeconomic indicators and sentiment, we anticipate positive momentum in the office market, although we expect some lag in the recovery, consistent with patterns seen in previous cycles. We are further exploring conversion options in selected office assets into serviced apartments. In addition, we started to identify assets that might fit to be used as data centers. Both asset classes could benefit from the strong locations of our portfolio.

We've identified several sites for serviced apartments, and we are in negotiations with several strong national and international potential tenants. For data center conversions, we are currently analyzing the ideal structure, how to extract that upside potential, either through powered or shell or co-locations and hyperscalers. We see a significant upside potential for this asset type, and we follow our proven approach to analyze, identify, and get all relevant permits, including power, to lift the value potential. We are currently in an early stage and will update you further once we progress to build a long-term strategy. On slide 11, we highlight the ongoing normalization of work patterns in our office market, particularly in Germany, where return-to-office rates have nearly returned to pre-pandemic levels. In fact, Germany is leading the way in its 7 largest office markets, with an 89% return to office rate compared to pre-pandemic levels.

The current average attendance rate in Germany's big seven cities stands at 72%, which represents a 10% increase from 2023, equating to approximately three and a half days per week in the office. This is significantly higher than the European average of 60%, and well above the U.K. and U.S., where rates remain lower. To put this in perspective, the U.S. return to office rate is currently just 66%, with some major cities like San Francisco and New York seeing attendance rates below 30%. This contrasts sharply with the trends in Germany, where there are stronger demand for office attendance. Among the top seven German cities, Frankfurt stands out with the second highest attendance rate, defying earlier expectations that remote working would disrupt office demand in this market.

We do believe that a hybrid working model of office attendance, as well as remote working options, will be the concept to stay, but the impact of demand will be softer than previously anticipated. Several large corporations have recently announced a call back to the office, reinforcing the growing trend of traditional office work patterns returning. As a result, we are seeing a strong recovery in office attendance, particularly in markets like Germany, where the supply of office space remains healthy compared to regions like London and North America. On slide 12, we are pleased to introduce AT World, our innovative user experience platform designed to redefine the way we engage with real estate. AT World goes beyond simply offering physical space. It leverages technology and digital solutions to transform properties and the real estate industry as a whole.

By reimagining how spaces are designed, used, and interconnected, AT World aims to meet the evolving needs of tomorrow's workforce while enhancing the tenant experience today. Through the AT World app, tenants gain access to a very large network of flexible workspaces across hundreds of locations throughout Europe, leveraging Aroundtown's large portfolio and network. The platform allows users to easily find a suitable spot to work and collaborate, and provides our tenants with options to attract new employees without being dependent on a single location, increasing flexibility, collaboration, and employee satisfaction. We expect to expand the platform, including third-party space providers, and open it up to B2C members in the future. Moving to slide 13, our residential portfolio continues to demonstrate strong operational performance.

As of September 2024, we've seen like-for-like rental growth of 3.7% year-over-year, primarily driven by strong and increasing in-place rental growth. This is largely due to the ongoing supply-demand imbalance in the market. New completions remain at low levels and are expected to decrease further, while demand continues to rise. In the first nine months of 2024, building permits for new construction have dropped by 23%, totaling 15,000 apartments, compared to the same period last year. According to the German Real Estate Association, ZIA, there's currently a gap of around 600,000 units, which is expected to grow to 830,000 units by 2027. This persistent shortage of supply is expected to continue driving long-term rental growth, though significant changes would be required to address the gap.

Moreover, the nature of Germany's regulated rental system means that inflationary pressures are reflected more slowly in rents, providing additional tailwind for midterm rental growth. Meanwhile, the London portfolio, which operates without rent controls, has seen a faster capture of inflation and market rents. As of September 2024, like-for-like rental growth in London was around 5%, further underlining the strength of the market. In both Germany and London, the residential market dynamics remain strong and sustainable, positioning us for continued rental growth and long-term cash flow expansion. Frank, please continue with the next slides.

Frank Roseen
Executive Director, Aroundtown SA

Thank you, Oschrie. Moving to slide 14, we provide an update on our hotel portfolio that continues to perform well. Our hotel portfolio comprises over 150 properties, and is well diversified across key European tourist and business destinations. These hotels are leased to third-party operators under long, long-term fixed leases, which are mostly linked to inflation or include step-up rents. As of September 2024, we have recorded 4% like-for-like rental growth, reflecting the positive momentum within this asset class. The third quarter has been particularly good for the hotel sector, driven by major events and a significant increase in corporate and group travel. Looking ahead, it is expected that the recent strong growth in RevPAR has now stabilized, and will continue at a moderate long-term growth rate. This environment is also supporting the rental growth in our portfolio.

On Slide 15, we focus on the significant internal growth that we have captured through a series of successful hotel repositionings. Thanks to these initiatives, we will capture around EUR 60 million in annual rental upside over the next few years, which is only partially already included in the run rates. For Rome and Brussels, we have completed full refurbishments and rebrandings into the Autograph Collection by Marriott, with further potential from additional rooms in Rome. Paris underwent a soft refurb under the Marriott Rive brand, and is now home to the largest events and conference hotel in Paris, which reopened before the Olympics. In Hilton Berlin, we converted underutilized spaces into 22 serviced apartments, catering to prime rental location demand. We also rebranded several hotels to better align with post-pandemic trends, focusing on digital services, serviced apartments and long-term stays.

Finally, we're exploring office conversions into hotels, service apartments and long stays to meet shifting location dynamics, providing additional upside potential. On slide 16, we provide an overview of the initial progress of the Green Building Certification within the hotel portfolio. After our steady progress to certify the office portfolio, we have now begun certifying our first hotels. We are leveraging the knowledge and experience gained from our office certifications to accelerate this process within the hotel portfolio. As of today, 12% of our hotel properties are certified, and we expect gradual progress moving forward, similar to the track record we have established with our office certifications.

On slide 17, we illustrate a brief summary of ATEX, Aroundtown's PropTech accelerator, developed in collaboration with two of the most prominent PropTech venture capital firms globally, namely Fifth Wall and Noa, the world's and Europe's largest built world's venture capital firms, respectively. ATEX aims to accelerate the growth of innovative PropTech startups by providing them with access to Aroundtown's extensive real estate portfolio, network, resources, and expertise. Our goal here is to make a substantial impact on the real estate industry, foster breakthroughs and enable startups to scale rapidly. We believe that many problems and challenges the real estate industry is facing today, should eventually be solved by innovation solutions. In this regard, we are referring mainly to energy intensity and decarbonization. For Aroundtown, ATEX offers several strategic benefits.

It gives us access to promising PropTech solutions that can enhance our operations, create opportunities for investment with the potential of outsized returns, and position Aroundtown as an innovation-first real estate company. ATEX focuses on key areas such as CO2 emission reduction, building digitalization, ESG optimization, and generating ancillary revenue, all aimed at shaping the future of real estate industry through technology and innovation. We strongly believe that the key to making the real estate future-proof is through technological and digital innovations. With that, let me hand it over to Eyal.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Thank you, Frank. Please move to slide 19. Net rental income amounted to EUR 883 million, reflecting a 1% decrease year-over-year due to disposals. This was partially offset by a positive like for like rent growth of 3%. Operating and other income, which mainly includes recoverable expenses from tenants, decreased by 13% year-over-year, in line with the reduction in operating expenses. As a result, total revenue for the period decreased by 4% compared to last year. We didn't conduct a portfolio revaluation in Q3, and we performed a full portfolio revaluations as part of our full year financials.

That said, property revaluations and capital gains amounted to a loss of EUR 591 million in the nine-month period, driven mainly by the valuation declines recorded in H1, and slight capital gains from property disposals, which were executed at a slight premium of around 2% to book value. Total property operating expenses decreased by 17%, mainly due to the lower utility cost and the absence of the extraordinary provision for uncollected hotel rents that impacted last year's figures, along with the impact of disposals. Finance expenses totaled EUR 179 million, reflecting an 8% increase year-over-year. This increase was primarily driven by the higher interest rate environment, which impacted the cost of new debt issued for refinancing purposes. The new debt was raised at a higher cost compared to the existing debt.

Additionally, the expiry of certain hedging instruments since the beginning of 2023 resulted in some of the debt transitioning to variable rates, which are now higher than before. The higher interest rates also affected the cap portion of the debt, contributing further to the rise in the finance expenses. These higher expenses were partially offset by interest income earned on our liquidity balance, bond buybacks at a slight discount, and debt redemptions. Furthermore, during the period, we hedged and fixed variable and cap debt at lower fixed rates, as we decided to wait until we saw rates reduce, allowing us to reduce interest expenses further.... Overall, the loss for the period amounted to EUR 154 million. On a per-share basis, this results in EUR 0.21. On slide 20, we present the development of Adjusted EBITDA and FFO.

Adjusted EBITDA increased by 1%, reaching EUR 758 million, despite the decline in rental income due to disposals. This growth was driven by our efficiency measures, as well as higher contribution from JVs, which helped offset the impact of lower rental income. FFO one decreased to EUR 302 million. This decline was mainly due to the higher finance expenses and perpetual notes attribution, offsetting the adjusted EBITDA growth. On a per share basis, FFO one amounted to EUR 0.22, down 4% year-over-year, and reflecting an FFO yield of 10% over the current share price. These results are in line with our confirmed guidance. On slide 21, we highlight the key drivers that support our FFO in both the short and long term.

Our continued focus on balance sheet strength and reducing refinancing risk, has positioned us well to unlock the operational growth potential embedded in our portfolio. As of September 2024, our reversionary potential stands at 25%, which we plan to realize over the coming years through letting at lease expiry, further indexation, and vacancy reduction, all supported by positive market momentum and improved outlook. Additional growth will be driven by the targeted repositioning of properties through tenant structure optimization, hotel upgrades, and aligning our hotels with key demand drivers. Furthermore, selective CapEx investments into redevelopment, refurbishment, and building upgrades provide high return at a relatively low risk. As a result of our efficient operation cost structure, this top line growth translates into a high conversion rate into FFO. In addition to these long-term growth drivers, we have taken proactive steps to mitigate the short-term pressures.

The perpetual notes exchanges and tender offers will support FFO with accretive effects starting in 2025, while providing clarity on future coupon payments. We have used the decreased interest levels and effectively hedged our interest in foreign currency exposure, securing lower fixed rates. As interest rates normalize in the coming periods, we will benefit from lower cost on the portion of our debt that is still capped or variable. In the meantime, our strong cash position continues to generate interest income, which helps to offset higher interest costs while providing us with ample financial flexibility. On slide 23, we highlight our EPRA NAV metrics, which decreased primarily as a result of the devaluation in the first half of the year. The EPRA NAV amounted to EUR 9.6 billion, or EUR 8.8 per share as of September 2024.

The EPRA NTA amounted to EUR 7.8 billion, or EUR 7.1 per share as of September 2024. Oschrie, please continue with the rest of the presentation.

Oschrie Massatschi
Chief Capital Markets Officer, Aroundtown SA

Thank you, Eyal. In the nine-month periods of 2024, we have shown our continued strong access to the capital markets. We've issued EUR 1.15 billion in senior unsecured bonds and EUR 2.6 billion in perpetual notes. With strong investor demands, our bond issuances were 7 times oversubscribed, and our perpetual exchanges saw 85% acceptance rate. We also signed EUR 325 million of bank debt year to date. The proceeds has been focused on liability management, including EUR 710 million in bond buybacks and EUR 445 million in redemptions, optimizing our debt structure and extending our average debt maturity. We've also reduced our perpetual notes balance by EUR 300 million, further strengthening our financial position. Moving to slide 25, we provide key metrics regarding our conservative financial capital structure.

Our LTV ratio has increased slightly to 44% from December 2023, but decreased slightly by 1% since June this year, primarily due to the impact of devaluations in the first half of the year. As a result of the positive effects of disposal proceeds and operational profits, we were able to mitigate much of this impact. We remain committed to taking proactive measures to reduce leverage in the coming periods. We continue to maintain a strong balance of unencumbered assets, totaling EUR 16.9 billion, or 72% of our rental income. Our average cost of debt is 2%, a decrease compared to December 2023, reflecting the proactive steps we've taken to manage and mitigate interest expenses. The average debt maturity is four years.

It's important to note that these figures do not account for our strong cash position, which, in the current environment, is generating positive interest income that offsets part of our interest expenses. As of September 2024, cash and liquid assets cover 23% of our debt, effectively extending the debt maturity profile. After factoring in our liquidity balance, the effective debt maturity increases to 5 years.... Through proactive hedging activities in the 9-month period, 98% of our debt is now hedged, with the majority either fixed or swapped, and 3% covered by caps. The remaining 2% of our debt is variable. As a result, any decline in interest rates would benefit the 5% variable and capped debt. Our interest cover ratio for the nine months of 2024 was 4x, and our net debt to EBITDA ratio stood at 11x.

On slide 26, we provide an update on our maturity schedule. As previously mentioned, we have executed several capital market transactions that have strengthened our debt maturity profile. Our liquidity position remains robust, with EUR 3.3 billion of cash and liquid assets as of 30 September 2024, further supported by undrawn revolving credit facilities, with EUR 650 million recently extended for an average maturity of four years. Turning to our guidance on slide 26. 28. Following a strong nine months in 2024, and with a more positive outlook for the remainder of the year, we confirm the full year 2024 guidance and expect to be at the upper end of the guidance range, which is between EUR 290 million and EUR 320 million, reflecting EUR 0.27-EUR 0.29 per share. This concludes our presentation.

As always, you can find further materials in our appendix. With that, we would like to start the Q&A.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Thank you. So before we invite your direct telephone questions, we would like to answer questions that we have received by email or during the call. For simplicity reasons, the team has taken liberties to group similar questions in order to answer as many questions as possible. Allow me now to read out these questions. Could you provide an update on the hotel portfolio?

Frank Roseen
Executive Director, Aroundtown SA

Thank you for the question. The hotel portfolio saw 4% like-for-like rental growth as of September 2024, reflecting the continued strength in the hotel market. We are experiencing sustainable positive momentum in the in this asset class, further boosted by a significant increase of corporate and group travel, as well as international travel. The strong like-for-like result was driven by several hotel repositioning efforts. This includes soft refurbishments, rebranding, and upgrading of hotels. Altogether, these efforts are going to capture approximately EUR 60 million in rental income increase over the next few years, while only an insignificant amount is included in the nine months 2024 operational results. Additionally, we are exploring digital solutions to support our tenants in reducing costs by generating efficiencies.

Looking forward, we expect that our hotel assets will continue to drive internal growth with strong and increasing cash flows, and will become a strong growth engine for the company's top and bottom line.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Could you provide some color on the letting activity in the office sector? What is your plan with the portfolio under the current market situation? Oschrie.

Oschrie Massatschi
Chief Capital Markets Officer, Aroundtown SA

Yes. The demand for office space continues to be affected by the sluggish German economy, but confidence is slowly beginning to return on the occupier side. Offices are also supported by normalizing work patterns, especially in Germany, where the return to office rate has almost fully recovered. Despite normalization, some degree of flexibility in terms of office space requirements will remain going forward, and as a result, to respond to this new demand, we are also creating a flexible office space concept across hundreds of locations across our portfolio. Offering tenants to benefit from adjustable space options, and in the future, we want to enter the B2C market, which follows different demand drivers. We expect the letting market to pick up further once the economy returns to a higher level of growth in line with previous cycles.

This will further be supported by the smaller amount of new construction and limited new supply in the office space coming to the market in the coming periods, and the conversion of existing office space to other uses. We are also working on converting offices to serviced apartments and analyzing the potential in converting offices into data centers. Our reversionary potential, diversified and granular tenant base, and long-term average leases provide a safeguard against a rapid increase in vacancy rates under current market conditions. The gap to market rent enhances our competitiveness by enabling us to offer more affordable options while gradually unlocking our reversionary rent potential. Currently, our primary focus is on sustaining occupancy levels rather than fully realizing the reversionary upside.

Like-for-like rent performance for our offices continued to be driven by rent indexation and step-ups, capturing inflation from prior periods, resulting in 2% rental income growth in our office portfolio. Vacancy in the office portfolio stood stable at 12.8%. In the nine months of 2024, we extended 240,000 sq m of leases with an average WALT of 5 years at an average in-place rent of EUR 14 per sq m. Furthermore, we signed new leases for 65,000 sq m, with a WALT of 6.5 years and an in-place rent of EUR 14.5 per sq m. We are confident in our ability to navigate the current challenges with a controlled impact on total office rent on a like-for-like basis.

Our staggered lease terms and extended average lease durations help mitigate the effects of the current economic slowdown. If the market rebounds, pent-up demand could spark a swift and significant recovery.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Could you provide more information on your like-for-like performance? What are your expectations going forward?

Oschrie Massatschi
Chief Capital Markets Officer, Aroundtown SA

The like-for-like rental growth for the total portfolio was 3% as of September 2024, with 2.7% coming from net rental growth. The like-for-like rental growth in the residential portfolio was 3.7%, 2% for office, and 4% for hotel. We expect the residential and hotel like-for-like to be a strong driver in the upcoming periods, continuing the positive trajectory we're experiencing in the recent periods. In the office sector, in-place rent increase continues to drive growth, which we expect will continue also going forward.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Could you provide some more details on your current valuations and expectations for valuation results for the upcoming periods? Eyal?

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Thanks, Katrin. We didn't carry out revaluations in the first quarter. In H1, the momentum of valuation declines has reduced significantly as operational growth has offset a significant portion of the slow in yield expansion. Now, in H2, we expect to see rental growth starting to create stabilization in values. The continuation of the ECB rate cut cycle and stabilization in interest rates over the long term should continue to be supportive. We are selling properties around book value and see a similar trend in the transaction market, which is a strong validation to the pivot in the value trend to positive territory. The entire portfolio will be revalued as of the full year report. Looking forward to 2025, we expect the valuation momentum to be positive, driven by operational growth. Meanwhile, new supply remains limited due to the elevated construction costs.

With interest rates cut and expectation of further reductions, we anticipate an increase in real estate transaction volumes moving forward. Additionally, the reopening of the capital markets brings greater certainty to the sector. Overall, these factors, combined with our strong operational momentum, indicate that we have reached the bottom, the market bottom. That being said, we remain conservative and focused on extracting the portfolio's operational potential to support value going forward, as well as on disposals around book value to support the balance sheet.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Now that values are stabilizing, do you plan to deploy cash to make acquisitions? How do you plan to use your large liquidity position? Thank you.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Thanks, Katrin. While continuing to maintain a strong liquidity position is of strategic importance, we have seen a positive shift in momentum and clearly an improving overall environment. As a result, it is no longer necessary to sustain a very high liquidity at the current elevated levels. Our first priority is to use the cash to repay debt, either through liability management initiatives or when debt comes due. Our focus remain on managing our balance sheet and leverage, and therefore we will like, we will not take actions that will adversely affect our overall credit metrics. In regards of acquisitions, we have recently established an equity fund in which, once completed, Aroundtown will be a minority, with the majority of the funds to be funded from institutional investors.

This fund will carry accretive acquisitions in the real estate sector, with the goal to utilize distress opportunities once they arise. Aroundtown will benefit from the returns of the funds, plus promote as the general partner of the fund.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Could you provide an update on your disposal activity? Will you become more selective in selling assets as valuations seem to show signs of stabilization?

Oschrie Massatschi
Chief Capital Markets Officer, Aroundtown SA

Thanks, Katrin. We completed around EUR 440 million of disposals in the first nine months of 2024, and signed disposals amounting to around EUR 630 million in 2024 year to date. In line with the current strategy, we continue to focus on reducing our loan-to-value, and expect to continue selling properties on a case-by-case basis for the right terms also in the upcoming periods. We have a large pipeline for disposals and expect to continue with our disposal activity to reach our deleveraging targets faster. These disposals will enable us to support the strong liquidity position, credit rating, and reduce the need to refinance at relatively higher rates.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

How do you expect your LTV to evolve?

Oschrie Massatschi
Chief Capital Markets Officer, Aroundtown SA

We are committed to maintaining our conservative financial profile, which includes maintaining ample headroom to our board limit of 45% on a sustainable basis, which is stricter than our covenant. As of September 2024, we have a loan-to-value ratio of 44%, below the board guidance. Going forward, we expect LTV to trend down, as we will continue to take actions that will support the balance sheet strength. We are committed to our rating threshold, which still require us to reduce leverage, and we are confident we are on the path to reach these levels. The reduction in LTV will be further supported by the repayment of vendor loans. Moreover, the stabilization seen in property values and the increased activity in transaction markets, positioning us well going forward.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

... Do you plan to pay a dividend for the financial year 2024? If not, what are the conditions for reinstating dividend?

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

The decision regarding the payment of dividends for 2024 has not yet been made, and is also subject to approval at the AGM in June 2025. Factors influencing the decision include the macroeconomic environment, alongside the company's financial position, which includes leverage relative to the board of directors' internal guidelines and alignment with credit rating metrics. As we are committed to our S&P rating, which currently has a negative outlook, we would need to see sufficient improvements to be comfortable to pay dividends. Although we do see some early optimistic signs, like the stabilization of values, the opening of the capital markets, and the decreasing paths of the interest rates, we would still like to get more clarity over the coming periods, including the valuation results for the full year 2024, before making a decision.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

What is the status on green building certification? How long will it take to have the full portfolio certified?

Limor Birmann
Chief Sustainability Officer, Aroundtown SA

Thank you. We started the certification of our hotels, with already 12% of the hotel portfolio certified. We leverage the knowledge and the experience gained from our office certification, to quickly begin certifying our hotel assets, and will continue to gradually increase the share of certified properties across the portfolio. Furthermore, we continued to increase the share of office portfolio certified, with now close to 60% of the portfolio green certified. While we are continuously working to make progress and have improved our processes, we have experienced some bottleneck problems with the certifying body in Germany. As such, we expect we will need a few years to get the full portfolio certified.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Can you give more details on Atex? What do you expect to achieve with your accelerator? How much do you contribute?

Frank Roseen
Executive Director, Aroundtown SA

Atex is our accelerator focused on proptech. Developed in collaboration with Fifth Wall and Noa, two of the most distinguished proptech venture capital firms in the world. Given our large and diverse portfolio and knowledge, and our partners' experience, we see these collaborations and the accelerator as a great opportunity to generate value-creating synergies. Aroundtown is in a great position to enable startups to scale more rapidly, which allows us to benefit from innovative proptech solutions, that can improve the operational efficiency and unlock new ways to create value. The focus on Atex lies within some of key areas in the real estate industry, where we see a lot of potential, a need for innovative solutions, such as digitalization, CO2 emission reductions, and ESG optimization, but also in ways that can generate ancillary revenue.

We see, especially, digital and smart solutions as a driving force in the future to reduce carbon emissions. These solutions will not only enable to find a feasible pathway, but also create more creative ideas. The investment requirements are not significant on our level. Our involvement focuses primarily on mentorship and support. Mentorship refers to business, i.e., each startup will be assigned a business mentor. This will be someone of our operational team, who is in position to implement, test, and mentor the startup, to help them get ready for a potential pilot. We plan to have five startups per cohort, and a cohort to run in programs of around four months. We closed the first cohort, and opened application for the second one just now.

This is a clear win-win, and as it provides ample opportunities to the startup involved, while also providing us with an immediate feedback as to what type of solutions could create value for long run.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Thank you. Can we get a bit color on what to expect for the 2020-2025 guidance, Eyal? And how do you see?

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Thanks, Katrin. As we have done in the past years, we will provide guidance for the next year within the publication of the full year results. We still have some moving parts, which will impact the guidance, such as the momentum of the disposals, market rates, and more. However, the trends of 2025 are as follows: We expect to continue and see strong like-for-like rental growth in the range of 2%-3%, coupled with operational cost optimization, which both will support increase in EBITDA and accretive internal growth. Furthermore, higher rents from hotel reopening, which are coming in at high operational margins, will support internal growth as well.

Net financing is expected to slightly increase, as we expect to see a full year impact of the debt raise in 2024, while interest income is expected to reduce, as rates are decreasing and cash is used for repayments. On the other hand, we will have a full year impact of the 2024 debt repayments, plus further scheduled debt repayments in 2025. The fact that we have a large liquidity balance and are not in no need to refinance in 2025 is supportive to keep the net financing cost stable. Perpetual loans are expected to increase slightly in 2025, due to the full impact of the exchanges and coupons resets. However, the increase in perpetual loans coupon are significantly lower than what had anticipated earlier this year, as a result of the successful exchanges.

We will have more visibility on where all these moving parts meet, and we'll come out with 2025's guidance with our full year results next month.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

I had a question: how do you see the development of the ICR? When do you see the bottom, at what level?

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

We expect the ICR to remain stable in the upcoming periods. We do expect a certain increase on finance expenses, as I just said, which would be positively offset by increase in EBITDA. In the longer term, we expect EBITDA to continue to grow, while finance expenses stabilize, which will support increase in ICR.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Thank you. So those were the questions that we received prior or during this call. We can now start the open session for your questions. We would appreciate if you can ask all your questions at once, and we will answer them one by one.

Operator

Our first question comes from Ellis Ackermann from First Berlin. Please go ahead.

Ellis Acklin
Senior Analyst, First Berlin

Yes, good morning, everyone. Thanks for the very detailed presentation. I just have one quick follow-up to the hotel topic, and noticed that you had a pretty sizable jump in the like-for-like for the hotel segment to 4%, compared to 2.6% at the end of H1, and I was wondering if you could be a bit more specific, what was behind that jump? Thank you.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Hi, Ellis. Thank you. This was basically the reopening of the three hotels that we just mentioned. That part of the event start to kick in in Q3, which impacted positively the like-for-like in hotels. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from Kai Klose from Berenberg. The line is open.

Kai Klose
Senior Equity Analyst, Berenberg

Yes, good morning. I just have one question on page 24 of the presentation, where you say, you know, bank debt. Could you give a indication what was the split of assets you provided as collateral between office, residential, and hotel? Thank you.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Sorry, Kai, we didn't hear the question properly. Can you please repeat?

Kai Klose
Senior Equity Analyst, Berenberg

Yes, I was asking on the amount of bank debt that you, you raised, of EUR 725 million, shown on page 24. What was the split of assets you provided as collateral between office, residential, and hotel? Thank you.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

So, in the level of, let's say, two-thirds of the total amount that was raised in the Around town level, so it means that commercial properties were used as the collateral. In terms of... And about the remaining was in the level of Grand City, so two-thirds commercial and one-third residential.

Operator

The next question comes from Jonathan Kownator from Goldman Sachs.

Katrin Petersen
Head of Communications, Aroundtown SA

Um-

Jonathan Kownator
Research Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Two questions, if I may. First of all, on the offices, you've highlighted a number of conversion opportunities. Is that for existing stock that is vacant, or are you anticipating further departures in your portfolio? And do you know already departures that you can communicate up to now? So that's the first question. Second question to ask, you've highlighted fund for potential acquisitions. Should we understand that this is going to be now your primary vehicle for acquisitions, or would you continue to undertake acquisitions at the Aroundtown level? And do you have any idea of that fund in terms of target size and your share? Second question.

And then the last question, and very appreciative, you've already given us some indication for 2025 in terms of guidance and you need to land there. But just conceptually, are we looking at FFO stabilizing? Do you still expect, going forward, FFO to be, lower, given your interest costs? Or do you have, a sense that, FFO could rise, given the optimization that you have in interest costs? Thank you.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Thank you, Jonathan. For the office conversions, we are talking on our existing stock. So basically taking from the existing stock and make the conversions where we see it relevant, and appropriately yielding. For the last questions about the FFO, as I just answered, there are several still moving parts before we can actually give a clear guidance where we are. We will use the next periods until the publication to give a much more clear guidance. But we do see things positively, so there are several trends. On one hand, we do see interest expenses going increasing a bit, but on the other hand, we also see the EBITDA growth.

So, with the more knowledge we'll have by the publication on disposals and the pipeline, we'll be able to really see where things are at, and then we will update. About the acquisitions, we will use the fund as our acquisition vehicle for our, let's say, nearer acquisitions. We really want to use our deal sourcing and all our experience in the last 20 years to find those deals that are in very good location, but just mismanaged, that gives value. We are not able, with our current partnership, with our goals, to be able to take the full acquisitions on our own. So as with this vehicle, we are able to, on one hand, do the acquisition, benefit from the yield, also get promote, and be in the market.

Regarding sizes, I mean, sizes are relatively flexible. We are not expected to be the majority in the fund; we'll actually expected to be the minority once it's completed. So we don't also expect to have any major outflows in terms of liquidity. Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Manuel Martin, from Oddo BHF. Please go ahead.

Manuel Martin
Senior Research Analyst, ODDO BHF

Thank you. I have a couple of questions. First question is on the contribution from joint ventures. As far as I can see, that's been quite good in the third quarter. Maybe you can tell us a bit about the background of the good contribution, and where does it come from? Is it sustainable to have a bit of color? I think it was something like EUR 30 million or so. That was, that's the first question. Second question, on your office portfolio, could you give us some color on what you expect in terms of like-for-like rental growth? Will it drop below 2% given the sluggish German economy? And, what's the...

How are the tenant incentives being evolving in your portfolio when you are doing your letting activity? So what is the tenant incentive set you must give? Basically, that would be the second question. That's from my side.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Thank you for the questions. On the positive from the JV front, there was nothing special, so it's pretty much aligned from what we saw in the last periods, it just became stable. And the good performance from the JVs that are mainly relates to real estate, and our position, our minority positions in real estate properties. On the office side, currently, we saw a 2% like-for-like. We see this more or less stable going forward. At the moment, we cannot give, let's say, more than that, because we do see some nice pipeline of letting activity that will be supportive. So at the moment, the 2% like-for-like would be a nice guidance for the end of the year.

And then the tenant incentive, also there, we didn't see any material change since the last quarters. Since a few years ago, we do see a slight increase in TIs, as we already update in the last calls. So I would say that TIs that were in the level of about 25% amortizations, now are more on the level of the 30% amortization. And so far, it's kept stable. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from Pranava Pujidapu. Please go ahead.

Speaker 14

For me, firstly,

Operator

Sorry, your line is now open.

Speaker 14

Hello? Hello.

Operator

Yes, you are.

Speaker 14

Yes. Good morning, and thank you for taking my question. I have a couple of questions. Firstly, I do notice that your LTV has now started ticking down a little bit, one percentage point. I understand as well, that your vendor loan balance has finally also started to come down. So I was wondering if you could give us more color on how you see the vendor loan balance evolve. Because if I remember correctly, S&P in their last report in December, had assumed that you would get back all of it by the end, or rather, I think half by 2024, and half by 2025.

The second question I have is also in the past, you had mentioned in your charts around the fact that you have enough cash and liquidity to cover maturities until the end of 2026. You don't say that anymore. Obviously, it still is the same in terms of numbers, I guess, but does that mean that you are now starting to use your cash for other things? And could you give us a little bit more color on how you see that evolving as well?

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Thank you for the questions. About the vendor loan and involvement, yes, we did have repayments in the vendor loans in the period, and we do expect this to continue to go down in the next period. What we see today is, although it was an increase of about EUR 80 million, this is net of new vendor loan that was given. So the reduction of the EUR 80 million was after already vendor loan that we gave in the quarter. The weighted average of the vendor loans is end of 2025, so that's the weighted average, so we do expect to see more repayments next year, and also in 2026.

I think this is also in line with what S&P is guided and knows from us about the vendor loans. Referring to the cash cover, yeah, we're not mentioning it anymore. I mean, it was mentioned in time that capital market was closed, and refinancing ability in the capital market was too expensive. Now that our access to capital is proven, and we are able to do liability management whenever we see fit, and in fact, when we also see the yields of our bonds, let's say, improve significantly since the last issuance we did, we did it later with a coupon of 4, nearly 4.8.

Now, it's traded at a yield of 4.1, so it's a very nice improvement. We don't think we need to keep a lot of cash in order to cover future maturities, and actually slightly before the time or ahead of the repayment time, to do a property a liability management and refinancing. But to your questions, the answer is yes, we do have, at the moment, liquidity to cover our maturities nearly until the end of 2026. Thank you.

Operator

The next question comes from Kannan Mitra, from Barclays.

Kanad Mitra
Equity Research Analyst, Barclays

Hello? Hello?

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Yes, hi, we are here with you.

Kanad Mitra
Equity Research Analyst, Barclays

Yeah, good morning, and thanks for taking my question. Again, continuing on the vendor loans, just wanted to confirm that the interest that you received from the vendor loans, is that a part of FFO 1? And also, can you give some color on the accretion that you expect from data center conversions? Any additional color would be welcomed there.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Okay. Yes, yes, I confirm that vendor loan income is part of our FFO 1 results. About the data center, it is still early to give more than what we mentioned. It was just important for us to do mention for you, that when we are looking for also alternatives for offices and office space, we find that several of our properties and quite a nice chunk of properties could fit to a data center. And as we said, we are analyzing the full spectrum of data centers, from edge until hyperscalers.

We have, let's say, a very good footprint in Frankfurt and in Berlin, that both of them are being a, let's say, data centers hub with a high demand from hyperscalers, and also from others. This is still at the early stage, but as you know, once we go into a subject, we really go deep. We will be able to give more color in the year-end results, once we have maybe more information from authorities about power. But this is something that we will give more data and more details in our next report. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question comes from Mary Pollock, from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.

Mary Pollock
Senior Analyst, CreditSights

Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. I'm sorry, I joined a little bit late, so I'm sorry if I missed this, but, what is the like-for-like growth in your office portfolio, if you strip out the benefits from inflation? Excuse me, from indexation.

Eyal Ben David
CFO, Aroundtown SA

Yeah. I would say that the majority of the like-for-like growth in the office was from the indexation and step-up rents. So the movement in the vacancy was nearly 0. So the expiries and the relettings were, let's say, contributed similarly, and the indexation and step-up rents contributed 2%. Thank you.

Operator

With that, we would like to thank all of you that participated in this call, and the questions that you've raised before and during the call, of course. Thanks very much. All the best, and goodbye.

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