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Earnings Call: Q4 2019

Feb 28, 2020

Speaker 1

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I am Emma, your Chorus Call operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the BASF Analyst Conference Call Full Year and Fourth Quarter 2019 Results. Throughout today's recorded presentation, all participants will be in a listen only mode. The presentation will be followed by a question and answer session.

This presentation contains forward looking statements. These statements are based on current estimates and projections of the Board of Executive Directors and currently available information. Forward looking statements are not guarantees of the future developments and results outlined therein. These are dependent on a number of factors. They involve various risks and uncertainties, and they are based on assumptions that may not prove to be accurate.

Such risk factors include those discussed in Opportunities and Risks on pages 139 to 147 on the BASF report 2019. BASF does not assume obligation to update the forward looking statements contained in this presentation above and beyond the legal requirements. I would now like to turn the conference over to Stephanie Wetzberg, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Speaker 2

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of BASF, I would like to welcome you to our analyst and investor conference call on the full year and Q4 2019 results. On the call with me today, Martin Brodermuller, Chairman of the Board of Executive Directors and Hans Engel, Chief Financial Officer. Please be aware that we have already posted the speech on our website at brz.com/fy2019. With this, I would like to hand things over to Martin.

Speaker 3

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us. One thing is right at the beginning. The BASF team is doing a remarkable job in transforming into a new BASF for our customers. We are, however, not satisfied with the financial results of the BASF Group in 2019. The better performance in all our downstream segments was not able to compensate for a significant decline in Chemicals and Materials segments.

2019 was a challenging year for BASF. We had to manage significant macroeconomic headwinds and several one off effects. The trade conflict between the U. S. And China had severe negative impact on our key markets.

In addition, the continuing uncertainty associated with the Brexit reinforced the underlying trend towards an economic slowdown. In 2019, global economic growth amounted to 2.6% and was significantly below the prior year figure of 3.2%. While the service sector developed solidly, industrial and chemical production grew at a significantly lower level than expected. Demand from key customer industries declined considerably. This was most pronounced in the automotive industry, where global production declined by 5.4%.

Beyond macroeconomic headwinds, BASF's upstream business was suffering from significantly lower cracker margins driven by oversupplied markets. In addition, our planned turnarounds reduced earnings in our Chemicals segment. Earnings in our Monomers division were negatively impacted by below the term average isocyanate margin. Now our Agricultural Solutions segment, the difficult market environment due to weather, extreme weather conditions and distributors destocking in North America as well as the trade conflicts negatively impacted sales volume. A good season in South America in the second half of twenty nineteen partially offset this.

Overall, Agricultural Solutions, Industrial Solutions and Service Technologies considerably increased EBIT before special items. Nutrition and Care slightly improved EBIT before special items compared to the prior year. During the year, we consistently implemented our corporate strategy to become a more responsive and customer focused organization. We energetically drove our active portfolio management, signing and closing several transactions. We also accelerated implementation of our excellence program.

Before we have a closer look at our performance in 2019, let me remind you that we restated our figures following the agreement between BASF and Lone Star regarding the sales of BASF's Construction Chemical business. This had an immediate effect on our reporting. Retroactively, as of January 1, 2019, sales and earnings of the Construction Chemicals division are no longer included in sales, EBITDA, EBIT and EBIT before special items of BASF Group. The prior year figures were restated accordingly. Until closing, earnings of the businesses will be presented as a separate item, income after taxes from discontinued operations.

Let's now look at our performance, starting with our sales development. In Industrial Solutions, EBIT before special items increased considerably in both divisions sorry, I skipped something. Sales in 2019 were slightly below the prior year level and amounted to €59,300,000,000 Overall, sales volume decreased by 3%, mainly driven by the Chemicals and Materials segment. From a regional perspective, sales volume by location of customers increased in Asia Pacific and in the region South America, Africa and Middle East. Volumes declined in Europe and in North America.

Prices declined decreased by 3%, especially on account of the Materials and Chemicals segment operating in oversupplied markets for upstream chemicals. Higher prices in Surface Technologies and in Agricultural Solutions could only partially compensate this decline. Portfolio effects amounted to +2 percent and were mainly related to the acquisition of Agricultural Solutions business in August 2018. Currency effects amounted to plus 2% and were mainly due to the abbreviation of the U. S.

Dollar against the euro. All segments and divisions incurred positive currency effects. Let's move on to the earnings development. EBIT before special items came in at €4,500,000,000 28% lower than in 2018. This was mainly driven by the considerably lower contribution of the Materials and the Chemicals segment.

Compared to 2018, earnings of these two segments declined by €2,200,000,000 to €1,800,000,000 The sharp decline of isocyanate margins, lower cracker margins and the cracker turnarounds considerably weighted on earnings in these segments. 5, the challenging market environment, we saw considerable improvement in our downstream businesses compared to 2018. In Industrial Solutions, EBIT before special items increased considerably in both divisions, primarily due to lower fixed costs, positive currency effects and higher margins. In Surface Technologies, EBIT before special items rose considerably, primarily driven by our Coatings division. Earnings in Coatings increased considerably due to lower fixed costs and higher margins.

In Catalysts, earnings increased slightly, mainly on account of higher volumes in Mobile Emission Catalysts. Nutrition and Care, even before special items increased slightly due to considerably higher earnings in Care Chemicals on account of higher margins. This was supported by a contractual one time payment in the Personal Care Solutions business. In Agricultural Solutions, EBIT before special items rose considerably, mainly as a result of higher sales. The acquired businesses from Bayer significantly contributed to the sales and earnings increase.

In others, EBIT before special items increased considerably, largely to the valuation effects of our long term incentive program. Let's move on to BASF's strategic targets and the status at the end of 2019. As mentioned before, our sales volumes declined by 3%, mainly driven by the Chemicals and the Materials segment. Global Chemical Production increased by 1.8%. EBITDA before special items decreased by 11% to €8,200,000,000 again mainly on the account of the upstream business.

ROCE was 7.7%, down from 12% in 2018. This was due to the lower EBIT of the segments and the increased asset base following the acquisition of Agricultural Solution Assets as well as the implementation of IFRS 16. We stand by our dividend policy and propose to pay a dividend of €3.30 per share, an increase of €0.10 Moving on now to our non financial targets. Compared to 2018, BASF's absolute greenhouse gas emissions decreased by 8% to 20,100,000 metric tons. This reduction was to a large extent due to the turnaround of our big petrochemical plant, but we also achieved improvements in production.

Please be aware that emissions for 2020 are expected to increase to the 2018 level due to a lower number of planned turnarounds and the acquisition of solvenes polyamide business. A significant lever for the steering of our product portfolio is the sustainable solution steering method. We have set ourselves an ambitious target to considerably increase sales of accelerator products to €22,000,000,000 by 2025. In 2019, these products accounted for around €15,000,000,000 in sales compared to €14,300,000,000 in 2018. The accelerated target reflects our strong commitment to further drive innovation and sustainability.

To achieve our goal, we deeply integrate sustainable solutions during in the R and D pipeline, in business strategies and in M and A projects. For Energy Today, the majority of BASF's R and D pipeline represents accelerated products and solutions. They typically show stronger growth than comparable products in their markets combined with higher margins. In 2019, we significantly improved the performance of our downstream businesses. For the sake of comparison, excluding precious metal trading, EBITDA before special items of our Downstream segment increased by 25% to 5 point €4,000,000,000 This slide shows you the corresponding EBITDA margin before special items by segment compared to 2018.

The weighted average margin of our downstream business improved from 15% to 17% in 2019. In Agricultural Solutions, the EBITDA margin before special items increased from 18% to 23% in 2019. In contrast, the lower upstream margins and volumes led to a decline in the weighted average EBITDA margin before special items in BASF's Chemicals and Materials segment from 21% to 16%. Ladies and gentlemen, we are committed to increase the dividend per share every year. Returning value to our shareholder is a top priority for us.

At this year's Annual Shareholder Meeting, we will therefore propose to pay a dividend of €3.30 per share, an increase of €0.10 In total, we would pay out €3,000,000,000 to our shareholders, which is fully covered by our free cash flow in 2019. We are offering an attractive dividend yield of 4.9 percent based on the share price of €67.35 5 at the end of 2019. Let me now give you a brief strategy update. It's all about our customers. We want our customers to experience a new BASF.

Therefore, we are implementing dedicated strategic measures with full energy, passion and speed to deliver on that promise. We have reshaped our organization and reduced complexity. We streamlined our administration, sharpened the roles of service in the region and are simplifying procedures and processes. Already in 2019, we saw cost reduction effects in the P and L, and we received positive feedback from customers on the changes at BASF. On this slide, you will find details on what we accomplished in 2019.

I will get directly to the last and very important point. In order to foster an entrepreneurial performance culture across the whole organization, we have adapted our remuneration system for all senior executives. Still based on ROCE, we implemented a long term incentive plan, which is tied to our strategic targets to grow faster than global chemical production, to increase profitability and to grow CO2 neutrally as well as to our total shareholder return. Thus, the incentive system of BASF of the BASF team will be even more closely aligned with the interests of our shareholders. We also updated our target to foster a diverse and inclusive culture.

By 2,030, women shall hold 30% of all leadership positions in the BASF Group Worldwide. All these measures have one common goal, to put BASF with increased customer focus back on the profitable growth track. Let me also give you an update on our excellence program. We accelerated our excellence program and are on track to achieve the targeted €2,000,000,000 annual EBITDA contribution by the end of 2021. We already realized positive EBITDA contributions of €600,000,000 in 2019.

The associated costs amount to around €500,000,000 By the end of 2019, 3,100 of the targeted 6,000 positions were already reduced globally. By the end of 2020, we expect an EBITDA contribution in the range of €1,300,000,000 to 1.5 €1,000,000,000 This is a run rate. The associated onetime costs in 2020 are estimated to be around €300,000,000 to €400,000,000 Furthermore, cost inflation must be considered. Both the EBITDA contribution and the onetime costs increased compared to our initial guidance due to the accelerated implementation. We now target to achieve the reduction of 6,000 positions already by the end of this year.

Initially, we targeted end of 2021. Before I touch on our Phupun project in Guangdong province, let me briefly reiterate the strategic relevance of Asia and especially China for BASF and the chemical industry overall. With a share of 45% on the global chemical production in 2019, China is clearly the largest chemical market worldwide. By 2,030, this share will increase to around 50%. Over the last 5 years, the compounded annual growth rate of chemical production in Greater China significantly exceeds the average growth rate of global chemical production.

Even more importantly, we increased our sales volumes in Greater China during this period significantly faster than the chemical production in this region. Most importantly, BASF growth path in China is highly profitable one. During the last 5 years, we have generated strong earnings and healthy margins. EBITDA before special items increased on average by 30% per year. The outbreak of the coronavirus will have a significant impact on the demand and production in China this year.

Our thoughts are with all those who are affected within this difficult situation. The long term trend, however, is intact, and we will implement our investment projects in China even if some years might be tougher. We are well placed to further expand our already strong position in this region and accelerate our organic growth. Ultimately, outpacing the global chemical market requires a strong participation in China's growth. In November 2019, BASF officially launched its Verbund project in Guangdong province.

We expect the first plants to be operational in 2022. These first plants will produce engineering plastics and thermoplastics polyurethane. Implementation of the entire project will take place in phases until 2030. Peak investments will be between 2022 2024. In total, we estimate the investment to amount to US10 $1,000,000,000 by 2,030.

When the project is completed in 2,030, the site still will continue to be a preferred location for future investments in China. The Phobun site in Guangdong province will mainly supply customers based in South China and will enhance BASF's presence in this still undersupplied market. There is a fast growing local demand for innovative chemical products and solutions, and BASF is and has been a successful company in China. That's compelling for a profitable growth. And now Hans will give you more details regarding our active portfolio management and the business development in Q4 and full year 2019.

Yes. Thank you, Martin. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. With our active portfolio management, we are moving towards higher value and more focus. Let me

Speaker 4

mention the major recently closed and agreed upon portfolio measures. On January 31, BASF closed the acquisition of Solvay's polyamide business. The purchase price on a cash and debt free basis amounts to €1,300,000,000 The business will be integrated into BASF's Performance Materials and Monomers divisions. With a complementary portfolio, a stronger regional presence and improved supply reliability, we will deliver significant benefits to our customers in the polyamide value chain. In December, BASF and Lone Star signed an agreement regarding the divestiture of BASF's Construction Chemicals business.

The purchase price on a cash and debt free basis is EUR 3,170,000,000. The transaction is expected to close in Q3 2020, subject to the approval by the relevant competition authorities. In August, BASF and DIC reached an agreement on the divestiture of BASF's Global Pigment Business. The purchase price on a cash and debt free basis is €1,150,000,000 The transaction is expected to close in Q4 2020, subject again to the approval by the relevant competition authorities. On April 30, 2019, BASF and Letter 1 completed the merger of and DEA, we have created a leading independent European exploration and production company with international operations in core regions.

BASF holds 72.7 percent and Letter 1 27.3 percent of the company. The integration is well on track and expected to be completed in December 2020. We expect synergies of at least EUR 200,000,000 per year by 2022. The IPO is planned for the second half of twenty twenty, subject to market conditions. The acquisition of assets and businesses from Bayer was a successful move.

It enabled us to evolve from a producer of crop production products to a supplier of agricultural solutions. BASF now supports farmers to optimize their yields and profitability by connecting crop protection, seeds and digital solutions. The acquired assets complemented BASF's already strong crop protection portfolio, added an attractive seed and traits business and strengthened our innovation pipeline. We now also have the foundation to digitally enable our crop protection and seed portfolio to create opportunities for new digital income streams. This fundamentally changes the way we approach the market.

The integration was completed within 1 year with business continuity from day 1. In 2019, the acquired assets and businesses generated sales of €2,200,000,000 and contributed more than €500,000,000 to the EBITDA before special items. Following the integration, we are now focusing on realizing top line synergies. By 2025, we target a mid triple digit €1,000,000 amount in additional sales from the acquisition, and we are well on track to achieve this goal. Let me turn to the financial figures of BASF Group for Q4 2019 compared to the prior year quarter in more detail.

Sales in the Q4 of 2019 decreased by 2% to EUR 14,700,000,000 Volumes and prices were both down by 1%, mainly driven by the Chemicals, Materials, Industrial Solutions segments as well as other. Portfolio effects also amounted to minus 1% and were related to the transfer of BASF's paper and water chemicals business to Solenis. With plus 1%, currency effects had a slightly positive impact on sales overall. EBITDA before special items increased by 20% to €1,700,000,000 EBITDA amounted to €1,500,000,000 compared to €1,300,000,000 in Q4 2018. EBIT before special items came in at EUR 765,000,000 23% higher than in Q4 2018.

Considerably higher earnings in Agricultural Solutions, Nutrition and Care, Industrial Solutions and Surface Technologies drove this increase. Overall, these segments were able to more than compensate for the considerable earnings decline in Chemicals and Materials. In addition, a better result in other contributed to the earnings increase. Special items in EBIT amounted to minus EUR 305,000,000 compared to minus €151,000,000 in Q4 2018. Special charges were mainly related to other and industrial solutions.

In other, special charges resulted from the implementation of our excellence program. The divestment of BASF's Pigments business led to one offs in the Industrial Solutions segment. EBIT decreased by 2% to EUR 460,000,000 in Q4 twenty nineteen. The tax rate was 19.2% compared to 21.8% in Q4 2018. Net income amounted to €150,000,000 compared to €348,000,000 in Q4 2018.

Reported earnings per share decreased from $0.37 to 0 point 16 dollars in Q4 2019. Adjusted EPS amounted to $0.63 This compares with EUR 0.72 in the prior year quarter. Cash flows from operating activities increased by EUR 1,600,000,000 to EUR 3,200,000,000 in Q4 2019. This increase was mainly driven by cash inflow from changes in net working capital of EUR 1 point €6,000,000,000 compared to a cash inflow of €123,000,000 in Q4 2018. Payments made for intangible assets and property, plant and equipment decreased by €290,000,000 and amounted to €1,200,000,000 Free cash flow came in at €2,000,000,000 compared to €88,000,000 in Q4 2018.

I will now quickly comment on the earnings development in the full year 2019. At €8,200,000,000 EBITDA before special items was 11 percent lower than in the prior year. EBITDA amounted to €8,000,000,000 compared to €9,000,000,000 in 2018. EBIT before special items decreased by €1,700,000,000 to €4,500,000,000 EBIT decreased from €6,000,000,000 to €4,100,000,000 In total, special items amounted to minus EUR 484,000,000 compared with minus EUR 307,000,000 a year ago. This mainly resulted from the implementation of our excellence program and the integration of acquired businesses.

The tax rate increased from 21.3 percent to 22.9%. Income after taxes from continuing operations declined from €4,100,000,000 to €2,500,000,000 Income after taxes from discontinued operations increased from €863,000,000 to EUR 5,900,000,000 In this line item, we report our Construction Chemicals business and until end of April 2019, reported BASF's oil and gas business. The deconsolidation of Wintershall following the merger with DEA led to a book gain of around EUR 5,700,000,000. Net income amounted to EUR 8,400,000,000 This compares to EUR 4,700,000,000 in 2018. Now turn to our full year cash flow.

Cash flows from operating activities decreased from EUR 7,900,000,000 to EUR 7,500,000,000. This was mainly due to lower net income after the reclassification of disposal gains to cash flows from investing activities. In 2019, changes in net working capital resulted in a cash inflow of EUR 1,400,000,000 compared to cash outflow of EUR 500,000,000 in 2018. Cash flows from investing activities amounted to EUR 1,200,000,000 compared to €11,800,000,000 in 2018. Payments made for intangible assets and property, plant and equipment decreased by €70,000,000 to €3,800,000,000 In 2019, net cash inflows from acquisitions and divestitures amounted to EUR 2,400,000,000 and were related to the repayment of shareholder loans and capital measures in the context of the merger of Wintershall and DEA.

In 2018, net cash outflows of minus €7,300,000,000 were mainly related to the acquisition of assets and businesses from Bayer. Free cash flow came in at EUR 3,700,000,000 compared to EUR 4,000,000,000 in 2018. Our disciplined working capital management and even stricter prioritization of investments contributed to this. Cash flows from financing activities amounted to minus €6,400,000,000 compared to minus €52,000,000 in 2018. Changes in financial liabilities led to a net cash outflow of €3,300,000,000 due to the repayment of financial debt.

In 2019, we paid €2,900,000,000 in dividends to the shareholders of BASF SE and €125,000,000 to minority shareholders. Turning to our balance sheet at the end of 2019 compared to year end 2018. Following the considerably higher net income and lower net debt, our balance sheet is even stronger than before. Net debt decreased by EUR 2,700,000,000 to EUR 15,500,000,000 Our equity ratio increased from 41.7 percent to 48.7% at the end of 2019, mainly due to the book gain on the deconsolidation of Wintershall. Non current assets increased by EUR 12,600,000,000.

The main driver for this increase was the recognition of our participating interest in Wintershall Dea and Solenis at fair value. The introduction of IFRS 16 led to an increase of property, plant and equipment by EUR 1,300,000,000 Current assets declined largely due to the derecognition of the disposal groups for the oil and gas business and the paper and water chemicals business. At the end of 2019, we have disposal groups for our construction chemicals and pigment businesses. And with that, back to you, Martin, for the outlook.

Speaker 3

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, in the 1st 2 months of this year, we're already experiencing a high level of uncertainty in the global economy. The coronavirus has added a new factor that is considerably hampering growth at the beginning of the year, especially in China. Lower demand and production outages in many industries are already visible consequences of the measures taken to prevent the further spread of the virus. We anticipate that the negative effects of the coronavirus will have a significant impact worldwide, particularly in the first and second quarters of 2020. Our assumptions currently do not consider a worldwide spread of the virus that would lead to significant adverse effects of the global economy beyond the first half of this year.

However, we do not expect the coronavirus to be fully offset during the course of the year. The global economy is therefore expected to grow by 2%, considerably lower than in 2019. For the global chemical production, we forecast a growth of 1.2%, which is significantly below the level of 2019. This would be by far the lowest growth rate since the financial crisis 2,008, 2009. We assume an average exchange rate of US1.55 dollars per euro and an average oil price of US60 dollars per barrel Brent.

We expect slight growth in most of our customer industries. For the automotive industry, one of our most important customer industries, however, we anticipate a production decline compared to the already low level of 2019. The main reason for this lower demand, extended production downtimes in China and possible interruptions in highly interconnected global supply chains. Based on these assumptions and due to the high level of global economic uncertainty, we have decided to provide ranges for our forecast in 2020. We strive to increase BASF Group sales to between EUR 60,000,000,000 and EUR 63,000,000,000 EBIT before special items is expected to reach between €4,200,000,000 €4,800,000,000 Compared to the situation before the outbreak of the coronavirus, it will be much more difficult to achieve significant volume growth.

The risks that the average upstream margins for 2020 will be below the 2019 averages has increased considerably. We expect the BASF Group's ROCE to reach between 6.7% 7.7% and thus be below the cost of capital percentage of 9%. The average cost of capital basis will increase in 2020 due to the inclusion of the assets acquired from Solvay. Additional information on the forecast for the segment is available in the BASF report 2019 on Page 137. For the next 5 years, we are planning capital expenditures of about €23,600,000,000 We will allocate 41% of our investments to Asia Pacific and 34% to Europe.

In the last year's CapEx planning for the coming 5 years, Asia Pacific accounted for only 27% and Europe for 43% of the rolling investment guidance. Thus, you can clearly see the shift of our investments towards our growth region Asia. We focus our investments on growth opportunities. The expansion of our Asian business is our large investment projects in Guangdong and Mundra and battery materials. Of the overall €23,600,000,000 8,200,000,000 are budgeted for this.

For 2020, we are planning capital expenditures of €3,400,000,000 For 2019, our initially planned capital expenditures of €3,800,000,000 have been reduced to finally only €3,300,000,000 in addition to property, plant and equipment. The reclassification of assets to the disposal groups supported this reduction. Ladies and gentlemen, let me conclude with our priorities for 2020. Despite the increased challenges in the macroeconomic environment, we will persistently implement our corporate strategy and transform BASF into a more agile customer focused company. We will actively drive sustainability and solution.

We moved R and D closer to the businesses to better align customer needs and R and D projects. We will push our positioning in growth markets in Asia and battery materials to outgrow global chemical production. The recent investment decision to build plants for cathode active material in Heyerwalta, Finland and Schwarz Heidel, Germany is an important milestone and reinforces our commitment to support electromobility. We are executing the announced portfolio measures. We are integrating the polyamide business from Solvay.

The major upcoming portfolio changes in 2020 will be the closing of the divestitures of BASF's Construction Chemicals and Pigments business and the preparation of the IPO of Wintershall Dea. We will continue to implement our excellent program at full speed. Our corporate strategy is 1st and foremost a growth story and strategy. We are committed to implementing the defined strategic measures to achieve profitable and sustainable growth even in a challenging market environment. And now we are glad to take your questions.

Thanks.

Speaker 2

Ladies and gentlemen, I would now like to open the call The first question is from Andrew Stott. He will be followed by Thomas Wigglesworth and then Tony Jones. Now Andrew Stott, UBS. Please go ahead.

Speaker 5

Yes. Good afternoon. Thanks, Debbie. Good afternoon to Martin and Hans. Martin, maybe first question for you.

So the guidance, obviously, not an easy year to offer guidance given the current situation. But I suppose what I'm interested in most is the conviction you have on Downstream because you're obviously guiding for good growth overall Downstream, including double digit in Industrial Solutions. Would it be right to think that the first half is going to be well below in aggregate? And that as the cost savings come in and maybe there's an assumption embedded that, as you said, the coronavirus effects tail away, you should see a much stronger second half. So I guess what I could have said more simply is, from what you've seen in January February, is it right to think you can still grow downstream in the 1st part of the year?

That's the first question. Sorry, can I steal a second? Hans, as a board member for Vint Cerdaia, I was intrigued by the comment that the integration is not complete till the end of 2020, and yet the plan is still to IPO in the second half. So how do you marry those two statements? So how can you IPO before you've actually integrated the assets?

Speaker 3

So Andrew, thank you very much. I mean, first of all, when we talk about excellence program, we talked about run rates. That means more and more we go forward, more and more we will see also the cost savings kicking in and then also you see them actually in the P and L. I mean, overall, let me say that, downstream, I think we have done really a good job in 2019. It was already a very difficult environment, and we have actually showed that we can grow the business and grow them profitably.

So that is also what even in a more difficult environment in additional blur element of the coronavirus now in the first half year, we still think in an ambitious to continue that way forward. And with this, certainly, in the area of the first or in the time of the first two quarters, where there will be the one or the other surprising element from hampering global supply chains, there will be also the one or the other effect in the downstream. So as this might clear up then, there will be also a better, more positive business environment, which I would then also see more acceleration and then easier performance downstream than in the second half. So I think your assumption in that downstream than in the second half. So I think your assumption in that respect are right.

I think it was important that we really I think we are the first one having a clear view on corona because it is now really visible. We are at the end of February. And I mean, nevertheless, we see also the infection rate maybe going down or peaking in China. There are still 100 of infected every day newly, and we see it now in other countries. So we will also see the surprise how we're discussing globalization, how much China is actually part of the value chain.

And I think actually by talking to the customers, I'm not sure whether everyone on the customer side is really aware how it will impact. There will be surprises in the supply chain. So far, I think they work from the stock. Now you will see when stuff has to be transported, first produced and then transported from China to Europe, that takes 6, 8 weeks or even more. So there will be effects.

And this is, I think, this will also be visible in the downstream area. However, I think one word also on upstream where I think this whole effect generates an even more depressed environment because demand is certainly low in an oversupplied market. And this is why I think we all expected that we get at least a little bit relief also on the up straight side, but now I think we have to really assume that the low margin level of Q4 is basically going into 20 20 and giving us not much leeway. Last word, we certainly push as much as we can now on the volumes also. That will be then a balance between volume and pricing.

But all we do in BLSF to rebuild the company is to participate in growth, and that has now to kick in. Even if the market is only with 1.2%, that means that BASF has to grow above that. So that's a little bit the environment we're in, but a long answer to your question. But I think this is maybe out of interest for all the others, and I think your basic assumptions are right. And this is Hans.

Speaker 4

Yes. Hello, Andrew. Your question on the Wintershall Dea IPO, how does what we said all the time go to which is an IPO in the second half of twenty twenty, depending on market conditions, goes hand in hand with concluding the integration work by the end of 2020. Now first of all, just to repeat this, we want to be IPO ready in the second half of twenty twenty. That's first point.

2nd point is decision of the shareholders will then depend on the market conditions. I think that's an obvious one. What we'll be able to demonstrate in the second half of 2020, we will be able to demonstrate to potential investors that Wintershall Dea is delivering on the promises it has made. And these are predominantly, 1, the production growth and 2, also bringing in the synergies. With respect to the synergies, we said that was driving for minimum €200,000,000 in synergies.

Out of that, on a run rate basis, there is €100,000,000 already in the bag. So that can be shown. That can be proven. And I think with that, we are on a good path overall. Preparation for the IPO is ongoing, and I don't think that there is an issue with the fact that we say that the integration will conclude by the end of 2020.

Speaker 3

Okay. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2

Since we have quite some analysts in the line, we will extend this call by probably 15 minutes. So don't worry, you will also get the chance to ask your question. We now come to Thomas Wigglesworth, Citi. Please go ahead.

Speaker 6

Thanks, Duffy. Thanks for my opportunity, Martin and Hans, to ask questions. First question on the battery materials plant and system that you have. You said start up in 2022. Could you just share with us how you see this evolving in your plans?

Is start up the same as commercialization? I assume that you're not going to produce sort of 400,000 car run rate to start off with. When would you expect to achieve breakeven on that facility under your assumptions? And then a second question, sorry to come back on the guidance, but you have given a range. I'd kind of be really interested to know what's defining the high end and the low end of that range.

That would be very helpful. Thank you.

Speaker 4

Thomas, you broke off in the second part of your question. Could you please repeat this?

Speaker 6

Sorry, I was just you've given a range. I'd be very interested to learn what defines the high end and the low end of your range. Any color around that would be I know it's difficult to forecast, but any color would be helpful.

Speaker 4

Okay. So with respect to the range, we're obviously in a relatively difficult position at this point in time. As you know, that has led to our decision to go with the range this time. The range is on EBIT before special items, as you've seen, from 4.2% to 4.8%. What this reflects in the end is the kind of uncertainty as we have it now at the end of February.

Various factors, and if I walk you through how we in the end came up with this, I can tell you that only in the beginning of this week, we were at the point where we had looked at all the scenarios, we had put together all the different data points that we could put together. And that then led to this decision and this kind of a range. Frankly, we came to the conclusion we cannot be any more specific and we cannot give you any better guidance than what we are seeing considering various scenarios. The plan would be to shrink this range during the course of the year 2020. The more visibility we gain, the smaller the range that we will guide in.

Speaker 3

So Thomas, one word. And the battery materials, I mean, we are in the qualification of the materials. We talked to quite a few people. We have also some MOU signed on that. But we have also not finally decided about all the volumes to whom they go.

I think there is a lot of demand in the market because actually if you take only half of the dreams of the OEMs in Europe, there will be a shortage of at least material in the region. So we don't expect that we finally also allocate this material. But with this not having full commercial contracts on all the volumes, it means also I cannot exactly tell you when there will be the breakeven, but you can assume and I assume that the plant will be loaded rather quickly. And if that is the case already almost from the beginning, then also we should have very early a breakeven point. This is a rather complicated process because there's a lot of technical assessment in qualifying the material.

You certainly come also from materials or you start this material from pilot plants, but you have also later on to verify that this material coming from production has the same quality. This is a rather quick thing. It's clear, cannot take a long time in quarters, but there will be also a qualification from the materials from the plants finally. But given the fact that there is a lot of growth in electromobility and not so much material, we don't see that this is a major material part. And maybe let me also add, we are part of that IPCAI, which is this important project of common European interest, which gives us also some support in terms of economics later in this plant.

Speaker 6

Okay. Thank you both very much.

Speaker 2

The next question is from Tony Jones, Redburn. He will then be followed by Christian Faitz and then Matthew Yates. So now Tony Jones, Redburn, please.

Speaker 7

I've got 2. I've got one for Hans and one for Martin. Firstly,

Speaker 3

would you be able

Speaker 7

to go through and walk through the operating cash flow factors, how you best see them developing over the year so we can bridge free cash flow and get a bit more comfort on the midterm outlook for the dividend? And I'm particularly interested how you think working capital might unfold with demand maybe down and lower raw material costs. And then for Maarten, a bit more strategic really. We've got multiple value chains with margins at trough and too much capacity, maybe even more to come. As a global leader, are you thinking or prepared to act and permanently close some of your own capacities to bring things back into balance?

Thank you.

Speaker 4

Okay. Toni, I will start with one of your questions, and I will not disappoint you. I'll take the first one on the cash flow. Operating cash flow during the course of the year, with the already with the divestiture of our gas and gas trading gas storage business and then even more so with the acquisition of the Bayer assets, our cash flow profile has changed quite a bit. It has changed in a way that the second half of the year is or should be significantly stronger than the first half of the year because in the first half of the year, this is when seeds and crop protection products in the Northern Hemisphere are sold and payments are to be expected for that than in Q3 and in Q4 after the harvest is sold.

And you see this already in a pronounced way in you saw it already after, as I said, the divestiture of gas trading and gas storage, but in a more pronounced way now, in particular, in the year 2019, where we now have a full cycle of the sales of the Bayer assets, where in 2018, we missed the Northern Hemisphere season with these assets. How working capital will play into this remains to be seen. You saw what we generated out of working capital, in particular in the Q4 2019, frankly spoken, we sat there with inventories, which, let's say, at the end of Q2, were not 100% in line with the market developments that we saw. And we've used all efforts to bring inventories into line with an overall slower environment. And we succeeded with that, as you can see, in the Q4.

So what's going to happen there in 2020 with respect to working capital impacts on cash flow? Here's what I think we are going to see. The environment, at least in Q1, is slow. We will adjust our production to it. We will see to it that we do not produce too much into inventory.

At the same point in time, we will need cash and have cash used for, in particular, again, the ag business, which has its strong part of the season in Q1 and Q2. So we expect to see a pattern overall, weaker cash flow generation Q1, Q2, stronger than in Q3 and Q4.

Speaker 3

Tony, on your question about our positions in the chains in base chemicals or upstream, we have not really on the list now that we have to shut down assets because if you look on our benchmark curves and the industry cost curves, I would say with most of the plants we operate, we are very well positioned on one hand from a cost side as being integrated on the Verbund, but on the other hand also from a technology part. So I think that would not make sense. We have done in the past this and the last one we did is actually capacity we took out from Caprolactam in Ludixhaven to adjust. But I think this is not us who should go out. And you should also consider that a lot of the material we produce up upstream is actually internally processed for our downstream plants.

And what we do, however, going forward, having this situation, we certainly absolutely minimize our CapEx in these areas. So we have now finished the acetylene plant, which was an important building block here in Ludwigshafen to improve cost position, expand and replacing an old plant. And we have not many projects now on our plant. There is one actually in which you have seen is ethylene oxide and derivatives in Antwerp. But that is an example that is clearly driven by the need of Care Chemicals to develop actually their portfolio further, which is in a downstream position, and you only place the remaining volumes on the market.

So I think what we should do is we should really operate the plants nicely, try to fill them even in a difficult environment, but reduce CapEx to the minimum. So that would be rather how we react.

Speaker 7

Thank you. That's really appreciated.

Speaker 2

The next question is from Christian Faitz, Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.

Speaker 8

Yes. Thanks, Jaffi. Hello, Hans. Hello, Martin. Two questions, please.

First of all, with COVID-nineteen, I appreciate that the demand situation is changing on a daily basis as we speak. Yet outside of China, can you please comment on demand in your relevant geographies, specifically for your product chemical activities in Western Europe and in North America? And then second question, I'm just trying to get a better understanding of your seed setup. Would it be possible to give us an idea of the split between field seeds and veggie seeds? Thank you.

Speaker 3

So, Christian, let me start a little bit with the corona side. I mean, we don't have a clear picture, let's say, North America and EU. I was also in circles last week with meeting with about 100 CEOs from different industries, also partially our customers. And you say that many of them, and they have all individual problems, whether they can start their plants and they have now concerns about raw material supply, about a missing key part coming from China, not having packaging materials. So it's really individual problems.

What we have to do now is to really be in intensive dialogue with our customers to understand it and also see how we can actually support them. And I would expect, as you said, there's a daily learning on the virus and its impact. So this is the same also from our customer side. But what we can see overall is a very, very cautious ordering behavior. So they rather prolong and drive their inventories down or that's what they have done also over the at the end of the year and have not refilled them.

So it is a little bit more living from hand to mouth. So I think we will now see over the next weeks what is happening. But I think what is also clear by seeing how it develops and now you see Germany coming up, France has some cases, Italy has some cases, will not be the end of the development. Iran, now not so important for the chemical market, but you see there, there is a huge explosion almost of infection. So I think we will learn from all of that and so will our customers.

And this is also why we have said we are prudent. We are now at the end of February, and we are far away from normalization. This is why this whole thing will go into the Q2 and then have even the next 1 or 2 months after that some impact. So we really have to learn that. But what we can see by talking to the customers that basically this is spreading out to be a global topic.

Speaker 8

Sure, Pat. Okay. So far, January, February also in terms of demand, Western Europe, North America, not much going on, right? That's what I read from your comments.

Speaker 3

Yes, slower at least than we have anticipated.

Speaker 8

Okay. Thanks.

Speaker 4

Yes. Christian, your question on the seeds business. What's the split there between field crops and veggies? It's about SEK 1,400,000,000 in sales that we have in seeds in total, and the rough split there is 70% field crop seeds and 30% veggies.

Speaker 8

Very helpful. Thanks, Martin. Thanks, Hans.

Speaker 2

The next question is from Matthew Yates, Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Speaker 9

Hi. Thanks very much. Couple of questions. The first one, your Slide 20, where it talks about the priorities, I'm not sure if these are deliberately ranked. But number 1, the implementation and transformation into a more agile customer focused company.

So last year, you said you had EUR 600,000,000 of EBITDA contribution from the measures. And in 2020, you're guiding for an extra €800,000,000 as a run rate. Can you just help me understand where exactly we see that come through into the P and L? You said it would take time, but obviously given the context of the group guidance, where should we be looking to kind of audit the delivery of this restructuring? The second question maybe is for Hans.

It's a follow-up to the Q3 call when you were asked about Vintaschod budgeting for 2020.

Speaker 3

Are you able to be

Speaker 9

a bit more explicit in the other line? How much would be central overheads? And how much you're budgeting for Wintershall contribution?

Speaker 4

Yes. Happy to take your questions. And actually, I'll take both of them. Your first question was on where do we see the excellence program reflected in your P and L. And the honest answer is all over the place.

I mean, there's everything in there from top line measures to cost measures. These are hundreds of measures that we are implementing, and we're actually making good progress with that 2019 end of 2019. We are where we wanted to be, I. E, at a level of an EBITDA contribution of think we said originally €500,000,000 We are a bit above that with €600,000,000 And we have the measures in place to continue with the program and achieve also in 2020 what we are looking for. And I'm not trying to tease you here.

It is really measures that are affecting P and L in various places, starting with top line and then obviously also what you would expect from an excellence program, I. E, cost reduction measures. And they are also affecting each and every cost item that you can think of from variable costs, I. E, raw material costs by way of improving processes using less raw material to cost reductions in fixed cost across the board. I hope that helps to put things a little bit into perspective.

Your second question was then on the if I got that correctly, on the guidance for other and what's happening there. What are the contributing factors to an overall better performance in other? Is that correct understanding, Matthew?

Speaker 9

Yes, exactly. Thank you. Yes.

Speaker 4

Okay. So what do we expect to see in 2020 that drives this improvement? There is, in particular, as you can see in our notes, the fact that both equity and equity shown participations, I. E, Wintershall Dea and Solenis, are negative in the year 2019. That is not a surprise if you think about the fact that these businesses go through a significant amount of restructuring, and the related effects then come through in the net profits and our respective share in these net profits.

There's another element that is important to understand, which is and I'll give you this in the case of Wintershall DEA, We went basically through an entire purchase price allocation for Wintershall DEA. So we looked at each and every asset, and we reflected market value of these assets then in our balance sheet and in the equity participation. This is not by choice. This is simply following IFRS rules. What this leads to is then the significant deconsolidation gain that you have seen, but also a step up of the respective assets.

That then needs to be written off over time. And the effect of that in the case of Wintershall Dea in the year 2019 is €200,000,000 The other thing that you need to keep in mind is we are showing Wintershall Dea results for the time period of May till December, and we'll obviously have full year impact then in 2020. Hope that helps to put things in perspective there. Other cost positions, to the extent we can forecast them, such as, for example, the corporate cost that we have in other or the corporate research costs in other, our expectation that this will be also lower than what we had in 2019. Look at the level we've reached in Q4 of 2019, that should give a relatively good guidance for what to expect there in 2020.

Speaker 9

Understood. Thank you.

Speaker 2

The next question is from Laurence Alexander Jefferies. We then have Jaidipandia and then Chetan Udeshi. Now Laurence Alexander Jefferies, please.

Speaker 10

Just a quick question again on the outlook comments. The tornado charge of sensitivities that you present in the annual report is heavily skewed to the downside. I think there's like 5 factors that are more skewed on the downside rather than the upside in terms of risk weightings. How do you think about sort of the range? I mean, were you trying to give a little bit of a more optimistic range?

Or did you see it as a or do you see that as sort of a countervailing factor that isn't included in that framework?

Speaker 4

Laurence, Alexander, I'll try to take that one. It's obviously not an easy one because there's not an academic and precise answer to it. What you have in the opportunities and risk report is and when you compare that to prior years, it is not so different from what you've seen there in prior years. What gives you really the key impacts, our market growth, our margins. So that picture hasn't changed that much.

And it's less it is less these the usual, I would call them, risk factors that we are reflecting in giving you a guidance. It is more the elevated or heightened uncertainty that we have at this point in time where news keep developing on a daily basis, where frankly just to give you an idea, we started looking at our supply chains, getting a clear understanding on raw materials, on technical goods, on inventories that we have on the reach of inventories about a month ago. End of last week of January, we started to assess the potential impacts. We gained more and more insight. And with that insight, to a certain extent, also uncertainty increased.

And this is what you see reflected now in the type of guidance that we are giving. It's less reflecting what you have in the chances and risk report. It's more reflecting the uncertainty that results from the very, very recent events, which, by the way, and I'm not sure that I should say this at this point in time, When I glanced over the comments that our results caused, I was a bit surprised by the fact that the big miss with respect to consensus was highlighted. If you think about consensus and the consensus that goes back to February 5 and where we are today, I think we all should agree that we learned a whole lot more than what we knew on February 5. Thank you.

Speaker 10

That's very helpful. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Now, Jai Pandya, Millennium. Please go ahead.

Speaker 11

Thank you. First question is just on oil and gas. So I appreciate that it's difficult to answer this, but considering where the gas markets are and where the oil investor psyche is today with ESG and all, What is the plan B, if I may ask, if you if market conditions are not good in H2 for the IPO? I mean, if you can just give us some kind of thinking in terms of how do you think about this asset and if there is any possibility that the oil and gas actually might come back to BASF or you can actually sell it to private equity or other strategic parties. So some thoughts around that would be really helpful.

A second question is for you Martin around CO2 targets. So it's a really challenging interesting target that you want to be neutral by 2,030. I just want to understand how will you achieve that considering you're putting so much CapEx, especially in upstream around on the ground in Asia, as you say, in the next decade. So just want to understand where are you actually going to see net CO2 reduction in the portfolio? And then sorry for this question.

Finally, appreciate it is very, very early in the year, but the setting of this year is very similar to last year. And you said last year that you don't mind borrowing a bit to pay or maintain the dividend. So should we think that the fundamental philosophy of BASF is exactly the same? And then finally, we would really like to thank Martin Lederman. I know it's last day today, and so I really appreciate his help and support and good luck.

Thank you.

Speaker 3

So, Zaidip, let me start with the CO2 target. I mean, just to make this clear, we said CO2 neutral growth until 2,030. I want to also differentiate us here that we are with a much closer target, which is everything else than a walk in the park. We are much more precise in terms of what we do then. Now the company is saying, well, I'm carbon neutral in 2,050, and everyone in stable is retired until then.

So what we actually do is we have to do hard work also on still, let's say, improving the operations. So every year, we get a couple of 100,000 tons out there with hundreds of measures, which is really efficiency gains. We also have a relatively big lever in terms of energy purchases from outside, which we can convert from partially higher CO2 load to so called green energy. This is another balancing effect. And believe me, if you would be on the table when we discuss how the project in Guangdong will look like, and you're right, when we start that up, we will have a step up in CO2.

But we're discussing there totally different concepts in order to operate a plant or an integrated Verbund site we would have done 20 years ago. So there will be a step up, but there will be also another step up which you might think. And then think about the India project where we from day 1 plan actually something which is not contributing CO2 additionally because this will be a setup driven by wind and solar. But it will be an ambitious target to achieve that until 2030. And then in 2030, we hopefully have the technology, or I shouldn't say, hopefully, we are convinced to have the technologies then to reduce further by investments in absolute terms.

So this is how we do that. You asked me that this is now a copy from last year. Believe me, a few weeks ago, we actually thought to cater a different guidance here. But I think as we also said in the recent days, we learned and the visibility is certainly low with everything here. But I think nevertheless, it is not fully it's not fully a same picture as last year because we don't expect a recovery in economic development.

We just expect that the corona effect is not further going until the 1st 2 quarters. So that is, I think, a little bit different. But I cannot change that there is so much uncertainty. And I think we are now the first ones who actually factor in corona in our guidance here. And I think that provides you with the best picture we can actually have today.

Speaker 4

Yes. Geraldine, this is Hans. On your question with respect to Wintershall DEA, I already said with respect to Andrew's earlier question that we have a clear plan in place in place that we will follow. There's also a clear agreement between the shareholders on what to do. And I think that's also quite important to understand.

And if the market environment in the second half of twenty twenty is not ready for an IPO, well, then it's not ready, and nobody will force us to IPO at that point in time. But the IPO, I think, is for sure to happen. Can I guarantee that this will be in the second half of twenty twenty? No, I cannot. That's why we always said it will depend on market conditions.

Speaker 11

Very clear. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2

Now Chetan Udeshi, JPMorgan.

Speaker 8

Yes. A couple of questions. First, can you quantify how much have you assumed the impact from coronavirus in your guidance for Q1, Q2? That would be useful. 2nd question is, do you have any more color on the recent litigation associated with Tykumba in the U.

S? And maybe help us understand what is your exposure in terms of sales or earnings to that particular product? Thank you.

Speaker 3

Chetan, somehow we hope not to get this question, this first one on the impact because with all what we said about uncertainty, it is not easy to say what this impact is. But if you now insist on that, I think from a day's point of view, it could be EUR 400,000,000, EUR 500,000,000.

Speaker 8

That is on sales or earnings?

Speaker 3

Earnings.

Speaker 8

Okay. Thank you.

Speaker 4

Now the next question is on which earnings level? It's on EBIT level. Your second question, Cheetah, was on Dicamba? Yes. On Dicamba, the situation that we have there, in brief words is the following.

There is a jury verdict, I think, from February 15 In the jury verdict, there are 2 decisions. The first one is on regular, I would call them damages, in the amount of €15,000,000 where the jury decided that Monsanto and BASF should be jointly and severally liable for that. And then there is a second decision of the jury in which the jury decided that the punitive damages should be paid by Monsanto. It did not decide that this should be paid by BASF. Where are we in the process?

The verdict now is moving on in due process way to be confirmed by the judge. We have the usual motions in that process. One of the motions coming from the plaintiff, also not much to our surprise, is that also BASF should be liable for the punitive damages. It's now up to the judge to decide. Our view with respect to the entire case, it has, from our point of view, no foundation.

We will file have filed the necessary motions in this first instance now. Depending on what the outcome will be of the judge's decision, we will immediately appeal. And I think that is all that I can say with respect to this case at this point in time.

Speaker 8

Thank you.

Speaker 2

We have 5 more analysts on the line. Next will be Andreas Heine, then Sebastian Brei and then Laurent Favre and finally, Markus Mayer and Peter Clark. So now it's Andreas Heine, MainFirst. Please go ahead.

Speaker 12

Thanks for giving me the chance to ask the question. Again, obviously, on the guidance more on the macro picture. Looking into what has happened in the second half of last year, at least I observed some recovery in Asia and U. S. Did a little bit at the beginning of the year.

I would assume the macro picture to be, let's say, flat growth to last year on the chemical market. Is your forecast of this going from 1.8 to 1.2 this year then dedicated exclusively to the coronavirus? Or would you have expected the chemical growth to be also lower if the coronavirus would not have come on this

Speaker 13

earth?

Speaker 12

That's the first. And the second on Upstream, margins are indeed pretty low basically everywhere. Do you think it can get lower from here? Or is what you see right now as a run rate baked, let's say, to in your outlook if you take the midpoint as the most realistic one? And related to upstream, it is an oversupply market and you invest quite heavily in Asia in new capacities.

Would you be open to delay this investment if the markets do not meet these quantities? Or is that kind of fixed that you have to be in this schedule for the 2 sides? Thanks.

Speaker 3

I mean Andreas, I mean, concerning the recovery in the second half, and we talked particularly about China, I mean, not everything that was missed out in the first half can be basically be caught up in the second half. You should also be aware, 1st of all, if you are at GDP level, that the Chinese GDP is also driven by services and everything that you missed out can not be done. So if you not have been in a restaurant or in a cinema, you can most probably don't watch the movie twice in the second half. So this is why we think it cannot be caught up. Also, if you look, for example, automotive on the heavy cuts they have done now in the 1st 6, 8 weeks, they don't have a spare capacity of 20% then suddenly in the second half to catch up with all that.

And by the way, I don't think that consumers, the only thing is the way they think about after being out of the quarantine to go back to the showroom and buy a car because there's also a lot of uncertainty out there. So if we take the GDP numbers before and after, so our plan was already that it closed down a little bit from the 6.1% in the last year. So it goes maybe slightly below 6%. And we are assuming now for GDP totally for 2020 for China about 4.5%. Percent.

So that gives you an effect for what is before and after the corona effect.

Speaker 4

Andreas, this is Hans. On your Upstream margins, very good description of the situation. Margins, both in our Chemicals and also Materials segment, coming down consistently during the year 2019. It looks like with end of Q4 2019, bottom was reached. And it goes with this then into the year 2020.

We have not assumed that there will be a lot of margin improvement. You see this also reflected in our guidance for the Materials and for the Chemicals segments. And I guess with respect to China and what kind of an impact the current margin situation and demand supply situation has on our Verbund project in China. I'll give that back to Martin.

Speaker 3

Well, Andreas, first of all, I think I missed out when I talked about China, the chemicals. We took that down from 4 0.3% to about 3% growth because not only the GDP level. So I mean, in terms of impact now on our large Verbund project, I think we had to think long term in this whole thing. What is the best setup also in terms of CO2, what was touched earlier, so how we really construct that smartly. And we certainly look in the business plans and everything.

But I think now looking on margin development short term and long term, I think we have to look on the long term supply demand and it will not have much impact on that one because you either believe that story or not. And even if this whole thing might come to a slower development and maybe something like a 4% growth or even slightly below will not change the overall picture. So we will continue with that plan and using the time now to finally optimize and then basically fix the scope of the whole investment.

Speaker 12

Thanks.

Speaker 2

Now it's Sebastien Greif, Berenberg. Please go ahead.

Speaker 7

Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions. I would have 2, please. The first one is on the battery facilities, the cathode plant in Europe. Could you perhaps give a bit more color as if this plant is coming online at the start of 2022 or at the end of the year? The second question is on CapEx.

Relative to expectations 2 years ago, BASF will in 2020 forego about €700,000,000 of capital spending. Where is this coming from? And what is the growth cost of doing this? Thank you.

Speaker 3

So I'll answer quickly on the battery materials. I mean, as I said earlier, I think it's a good assumption if you expect that we go operational mid of the year. Thank you.

Speaker 4

And I'll quickly address your CapEx question also, Bastian. If you look at the environment that we were in when we gave CapEx guidance 2 years ago, the environment was much more friendly than it is today. What do you do in situations like this? You tighten the belt, and this is exactly what have seen in 2019 and what we continue to do in 2020.

Speaker 7

Am I right in saying that there were a number of debottlenecking projects planned in Midstream Chemicals in Europe would have gone there haven't been any big ticket cancellations of projects by BASF in the meantime? Is it just all smaller names?

Speaker 4

Yes. But what you do is you look at your projects, some of the projects that you have in the out years that have not yet caused significant amount of spending other than planning, you decide on the timing there. There weren't any cancellations. But I mean, as a prudent businessman, what you do in situations like this, you tighten the belt, and this is exactly what we've done and will continue to do in 2020.

Speaker 9

And now

Speaker 2

it's Laurent Favre, Exane BNP.

Speaker 14

Good afternoon. That's actually a follow-up to Sebastien's question. To go from €3,400,000,000 to your 5 year target, I mean, we need to add about €2,000,000,000 on average between 2020 and the following years. So I'm just wondering, is it a case that the belt is going to be loosened again, to use your expression? Or should we assume that there's limited flexibility on €5,000,000,000 or so of annual CapEx for 2021, 2022?

Thank you.

Speaker 3

Well, I mean, I think what you see from the picture is that the core of BASF, which really tightened the belt and do only put the money we need into to cater the growth. There's no space for extra dreams. So we allocate a lot to the battery materials and now to growth programs in Asia. There's the one or the other flexibility. But you asked also on the other hand when is this operational mid of 2022, so you don't have much leeway to shift money here.

And also from the Asia point of view, I mean, we have also basically then in the years of 2022 to 2024 actually spend this money. So yes, and this is the framework we actually have. And I think going forward, maybe we have to explain to you also a little bit better than also what does this mean in the future, what is coming in, in terms of earnings and everything this will be we will do over time. But we have to certainly also then spend the money when you want to execute these projects very concisely.

Speaker 14

Understood. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Now Markus Mayer, Baader Helvea. Please go ahead.

Speaker 13

Yes, good afternoon. Two questions from my side as well. Firstly, I come back to cash flow again. Can you quantify what you expect on the restructuring outflows for 2020? That would be my first question.

And second question is basically more small one on this 20% positive catalyst price effect. How much of this was due to PGM prices?

Speaker 3

Can you repeat the second one? We did not understand.

Speaker 13

Yes, sure. This 20% price effect in Catalyst in the Q4, how much of this price effect was due to higher PGM costs PGM prices?

Speaker 4

Marco, start with your second question. I don't have that at my fingertips, but we'll provide it to you after the call. One thing is for sure. On the price side, the precious metals were a significant driver. If you think about the fact that rhodium, as an example, we started the year with 3,000 and we ended the year at 10,000.

So it gives you a rough idea what happened there on prices. But Stefanie and the team will provide you that information after the call. And then you asked for cash outflows. You've seen that our special items will be a bit higher as a result of restructuring, but also integration in 2020. Then in 20 19, my expectation that is roughly half of what we show as special items will be cash outflows in the year 2020, so let's say around about €300,000,000

Speaker 13

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Speaker 2

Now the final question comes from Peter Clark. I hope it's only 1, Societe Generale. Please go ahead.

Speaker 15

Yes. Well, actually, it's 2. I'm apologizing for that. But they're quick ones, I hope. The dividend policy, obviously, we know you want to cover the dividend with a free cash flow.

And obviously, in the old days, it was also a premium on the cost of capital. I seem to remember when it was cut. That was one of the issues we're cutting. Just the commitment to that, if 2020, you don't actually cover on the cash flow, you've made it quite clear you're expecting no premium on the cost of capital. How long are you prepared to stick with that policy, a feeling for that?

And then the second one, just on the ag guidance, it was the one that probably surprised me most because I thought there was quite a lot of integration costs within the number in 2019. And also, there was the one off hit, of course, with a very adverse weather last summer. So just wondering on that guidance for a slight increase. I was expecting more than that. Thank you.

Speaker 3

So Peter, I mean, we have a commitment to the rise of the progressive dividend policy. This is also why I think you can expect this in 2020, I can say this. We will explain to you also the inflowing money and what we are going to spend maybe a little bit more in detail. So I think if there is a year or 2 where maybe the free cash flow is not working because we have to invest in our or not sufficiently because we have to invest in our growth projects, then this is, I think, with a very clear projection, I think, the right thing to do. And this is actually what we are going to do.

We rebuild the company to have a lower cost base to actually get more out of what we do. We streamline our portfolio. And I think it should all go in this direction to close that gap. And if this is 1 or 2 years happening, then I think the story is still intact. So be sure that we are now really committed to this dividend policy.

Speaker 4

Peter, on your Ag guidance questions, I mean, if you look at the results that Ag generated in 2019, I think that is a nice set of figures that they delivered now going into 2020. We took a hard look at where do we see channel inventories, what's going on in this world among other things. It looks like Canada will not be able to export canola oil to China. That may have an impact there and through that also on our canola seed business. So if your assumption is correct that the guidance should have been higher here and in the end, Ag Solution delivers higher results, I'm perfectly fine with that, and I'm happy to take it.

Speaker 15

Okay. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2

Ladies and gentlemen, this brings us to the end of our conference call, and we will report on our Q1 results on April 30. Our Annual Shareholders' Meeting will also take place on this day. Please allow me to end with a personal note. After 7 years of excellent work in Investor Relations, Martin Ledemid will, as Vice President, assume mentioned, indeed his last day in Investor Relations. Please join me in congratulating him and rest assured that going forward, we will do our best to support the analysts and investors who have been in close contact with Martin.

Today, he's still available to take your calls as will the entire Investor Relations team be. Thank you very much for joining us today, and goodbye for now.

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