Good morning and welcome to our C-Days stage for the second day of our Bechtle C-Days 2025. I'm delighted to be your facilitator for the second day following a truly fantastic, energetic day, which we experienced yesterday. We had great executive interviews on our stage. We had panels, use cases, and the most important areas of technology that are currently on all our minds: AI, digital sovereignty, productivity through IT, innovation, the whole bunch. That's exactly how we will continue today. I'm looking forward to some real highlights, such as our executive interview with Michael Guschlbauer, our host here at C-Days, and Ralph Haupter, President at Microsoft. I'm also looking forward to Gordon Thompson, President, Cisco EMEA, who will join us here. We'll have a great keynote at the end of the program. Stay tuned until the end to hear Marc Elsberg, a bestselling author. You'll know him.
Blackout, a topic that has been on all our minds in Europe just a few weeks ago when the lights went out in Spain and Portugal. We will discuss with Marc Elsberg about the implication for the society at large, taking a slightly different perspective on our technological world. We'll have great panels. Is the keyword sustainability fatigue a topic in your organizations? For me, it's an interesting topic indeed. Sustainability has been a driving force for IT innovation in recent years. Will that remain the case, or is fatigue setting in? If so, how can we counteract it? We will discuss this with Antje Leminski, our Bechtle Board Member, in our sustainability panel. We're going to start right now without moving very far away from our studio, which is located in Heilbronn, by the way. We are moving across the river Neckar to IPAI.
IPAI is one of the most exciting AI initiatives in Europe. A large number of companies have joined forces to develop AI, share the knowledge, develop use cases, and train employees. It's a great initiative, and we'll be talking about it in the first panel of the day. Don't forget, this is an interactive platform here. You're invited to participate, give feedback, write comments, help us make today even better than yesterday. That's our ambition and our goal. Thank you for joining us. I'm looking forward to the day. Now, let's head over to IPAI.
When we talk about AI here at the C-Days and elsewhere, we rarely have the opportunity to talk about a specific place where AI takes place. We now have that privilege with our next session. We'll look at a place not far from the studio where we are now in Heilbronn, at the IPAI, the Innovation Park for Artificial Intelligence in Heilbronn. A unique European ecosystem for applied artificial intelligence that brings together business, research, and politics. The goal is quite simply to map the entire AI value chain in one place, from education and research to application development and, of course, the commercialization of ethically responsible AI. I am very grateful to welcome three active stakeholders and protagonists from the IPAI ecosystem to our session here on our panel to talk about the IPAI and the opportunities this network offers to each and every one of us.
I'm delighted that Eric Martin is here. Hello, Eric.
Hello.
Eric is Head of AI at IBM Parks, and right next to him is Martin Schmidt. Hello, Martin. A warm welcome to you.
Thank you. Happy to be here.
Martin is Chief Police Director and heads the Innovation Hub at the Baden-Württemberg State Police. We're eager to hear all about the Innovation Hub and the great initiatives you're carrying out at the moment. Beside me here is a colleague you all know well from the C-Days stage, my esteemed colleague Christian Malzacher. Welcome. You oversee the modern workplace at Bechtle and lead this crucial segment in your role as Business Manager. Thank you all for being here and giving us the chance to learn more about the IPAI and the exciting work happening there. My first question is for you, Eric. What motivates you at ebm-papst when it comes to leveraging AI?
We mainly use AI in three areas. First, for our processes, that means how can I improve my everyday work with AI and increase productivity? Then AI for knowledge management. How can I make the company's knowledge freely accessible to all employees? Finally, of course, AI in the product. How can I improve my products with AI?
All right, that's a wide range of activities. Martin, how about the police force and the Innovation Hub?
Ultimately, it's the usual tasks for the Baden-Württemberg Police Force. Just like in the analog world, we also strive to fulfill our duties in the digital world in the areas of fighting crime and hazard prevention. However, we also try to simplify and speed up routine administrative tasks.
Thanks, Martin. How about Bechtle, Christian?
As you know, this is a very strategic and important topic for us. This is why we have developed a position paper that defines our strategic direction. From Bechtle's perspective, there are four areas of action that guide us. We start with the customer, who's at the center. We aim to enable companies to use AI in a targeted manner, optimize business processes, and tap into new potential. As the second of the four areas, we have the market. As a leading IT system provider, we naturally want to help shape the development of AI by offering innovative solutions and entering into strategic partnerships. Then we have the topic of Bechtle as a company.
We also use AI for process optimization ourselves and ensure that we create added value for our customers and increase efficiency in a targeted manner. Last but not least, society. Responsible AI is important to us. That is why we take ethical, legal, and social aspects into account and incorporate them into our strategy.
I'm surprised, of course, that your perspectives on the topic differ so greatly. AI is being incorporated into products and used to fight crime. Here at Bechtle, it's also about the market, of course. Despite these differences, all three of you decided to get involved in the IPAI, both personally and on behalf of the companies and organizations you represent. To what end? What benefits does an ecosystem like the IPAI offer you in achieving your AI goals? What do you expect and experience? Martin, may I ask you first?
Of course. Representing the state administration, we always try to take a global view of issues. On the 14th of July in Stuttgart, we established a joint institution bringing together the State Criminal Police Office, the Cybersecurity Agency of Baden-Württemberg, and the Innovation Hub under one roof because we want to take an end-to-end view of these issues. The ecosystem offers us the opportunity to gain insights into the economy, companies, and research. As a police organization, we always have been active in this field. This simplifies things for us and brings together the common goal for Baden-Württemberg of working actively together in this area.
Thank you, Martin. Christian, how about Bechtle?
We are aware of the challenges that companies are currently facing in terms of AI and putting it into practice. This is precisely why this dialogue and these different perspectives are so important. We also see the similarities between the challenges. The IPAI is simply a great place where lots of experts work together on the challenges, specifically on certain formats, also on sharing best practices or experiences so that they can then join forces to tackle these challenges.
What about ebm-papst ? Eric, do you also find interesting people to talk to in the network?
Yes, from my point of view, exchange is the main focus. I would say on multiple levels. First, we exchange ideas on strategic topics such as how to implement our AI strategy. It helps that the IPAI network consists of several companies. Within these companies, there are, of course, some that either have similar sectors or a similar number of employees or are similar in size. That helps immensely. There is also the aspect of use cases. What are the right use cases? Just look at all the companies that manufacture products, for example.
They have a supply chain. How do I implement AI in my supply chain? That's where we exchange ideas. Finally, on a slightly more technical level, the right tools for AI. It's currently impossible to keep track of the market. That would be a full-time job for an entire team. This exchange is extremely helpful because it's not enough to talk to experts. They also have to have the same framework conditions. At the IPAI, we also find members with similar framework conditions. This makes it the best place for us to discuss whether a tool is suitable and helpful for our company. Christian, please.
Yes, I can briefly add that what we also see a lot, regardless of company size and industry, is that implementing AI is one of the biggest challenges. How do you manage to implement the whole thing in your organization with the right governance, support from top management, top down, as it were, but also bottom up, and the empowerment to raise the level of competence. That is also something we're emphasizing in the AI Competence Alliance, where we are looking at how we can help companies and share knowledge so that smaller companies can benefit.
Yes, very valuable. I would like to come back to that because we're also experiencing this at the C-Days. Of course, practically every session here is about AI. At the same time, however, we are seeing that there still seem to be major hurdles in many companies and organizations when it comes to harnessing the full power of this technology. I'm sure you will have observed the same in your own organizations, but also beyond. Why is that? What are these hurdles and challenges? Coming back to the IPAI, how can a network like the IPAI help, in very concrete terms, get things moving in this area? You've already mentioned a few examples. Tell us more.
Simply put, the biggest obstacle is that it is not purely a technological issue. AI is not a guaranteed success. This means that if you don't have the right organization, governance, and support in place, including a change management program, which I'm sure you can confirm based on what you've said, it will certainly not be a success. That is undoubtedly one of the biggest obstacles we currently see. You have to make sure that you don't just make it a top-down management issue, but that you also create the opportunities, roles, and organizations to move on to the implementation and empower employees to use AI technologies correctly.
Eric, is this your observation too?
Yes, I agree with you on the topic of people and organization. It's, of course, a transformation, a change issue. We need to implement change management to ensure that AI is widely adopted. That's one aspect. The question is how we can create best practice examples. Thus, it is also very important for us to have an exchange within the IPAI in order to find the right use case. I think we often have the problem that we start something with AI, but it doesn't have any real impact. In other words, it's just a technology show. We have to move away from that so that the organization also sees the added value. That's also part of change management, as is prioritizing use cases and implementing them all the way through to the end in order to generate impact.
Okay, how about you, Martin, representing a public authority, the police force? What's it like there? Do you also find the right peers?
Definitely, yes. As the previous speakers have already mentioned, it's a cultural issue, a mindset issue that must be given management attention. The technology and the challenges are also a leadership issue for the police. We must address the issue of administrative modernization as a state. I see it as a joint task for the administration, businesses, and academia and research to ensure that Baden-Württemberg can once again emerge as a strong player in this technology, but also to prepare for the next issues that lie ahead, such as human robotics. Rather than focusing solely on AI, we need to look further into the future to face the challenges ahead. Development cycles are getting shorter, and I'm convinced that no one can go it alone.
It can only be done collectively. This is where the IPAI offers me an ecosystem and an environment where I can learn from others, contribute my ideas, and work together on topics and use cases as partners. What I also find particularly great about the IPAI is that it's not purely about technology. At the IPAI, you don't just meet IT managers, but people from a wide variety of fields. You can see how all areas are influenced by it and how it can then work together to bring the different perspectives together. That's what I particularly like about the IPAI. Absolutely, especially at a level where expertise meets expertise, management level. When you meet at a level where you truly communicate, identify what you have in common, and then take that back into your organizations. That's what I find so exciting.
Whether it's before events, during seminars, or any kind of panel discussions that are offered, you always take something away with you and bring it back to your own organization. I would also say that we cover the entire field with the events at the IPAI. There are keynote speeches that tend to focus more on management strategy. There are user circles where people meet and program together. I believe that this broad range of offerings also supports the topics of people, change management, and strategy, as well as implementation and technology. Everything from organization to technology is covered. That's very helpful because there's always something suitable on offer.
Thank you. I find this very interesting because I also believe that AI represents a technological revolution that fascinates and challenges us because it cannot be pigeonholed, but rather cuts across all areas, processes, and perspectives of a company. We will see this in many other cases. Here at the C-Days, for example, we're also holding a session on the next big revolution on the horizon, quantum technology. There too, we will experience something that cannot be achieved in isolation. We will only have a chance to exploit the possibilities offered by this technology and not be swept away by it if we cooperate across the board between companies and the public sector. I think it's a good laboratory for practicing such collaborations, even beyond the technology of AI itself.
Your reports in this regard are indeed very exciting. Can you give us some examples from the IPAI where you have actually experienced this cooperation and are making progress as a team? Is there anything you can report on yet?
Absolutely. We are constantly involved with the IPAI and try to proactively engage with people there. The great thing is that everyone at the IPAI is an expert on AI, and everyone is open to discussion. That makes it easy to strike up a conversation at the coffee machine, which leads to an exchange of experiences. As with ebm-papst , for example, you have follow-up appointments that even lead to projects that we then successfully implement. I don't think there's any other place where these two things come together so well: expertise and this openness to engage in dialogue, even to talk about things that you might not talk about in other places. Not openness about trade secrets, of course, but openness about the challenges that every company faces. I think that's very remarkable indeed.
To make this more tangible, I would like to explain how this collaboration came about. It was quite simple, really. A colleague from the G2 workplace approached me about a proof of value for Microsoft 365, and I just told him there was a Bechtle presentation at the IPAI. I couldn't make it myself, but I sent my colleague the email. The meeting was set up informally at first. We met at the IPAI, and it actually turned into collaboration on a small project with Bechtle supporting us in the introduction of this Microsoft 365 POV. It really started in the coffee corner.
Wonderful. That's a great example. From Bechtle's point of view, we are, of course, very pleased to hear this, but it's also important beyond that. Thank you for sharing. Martin, how about the police force's point of view?
For us too, we have already held a large number of management events at the IPAI to provoke a mindset change in people that is our managers. We are in contact with the German AI Association. We have also brought together various technologies and companies, thanks to our expertise. We are still in the exploratory phase, so I can't name any names yet. What I find really exciting is that the IPAI got us in touch with participants from the public sector, whom we have now invited to our Innovation Hub in Bad Cannstatt. Obviously, this has led to some networking. For instance, take topics dealt with at GovTech in Berlin, which then continued to be discussed at the IPAI, and from there are passed on to the respective department of the state, and into what you have called the silos.
This is a multitude of different measures of currents that are, in fact, noticeable. It's still early days. This project is still in its infancy and requires ongoing attention and support, but you can feel that everyone is working on it together.
Good vibes and quite a number of very tangible initiatives, it seems, are being launched by the IPAI stakeholders. I'm sure that anyone who supports the concept as such and recognizes its significance will be very pleased to hear that. With that, we'll come to our last round of questions. Unfortunately, time's always short, but we still have a few minutes left. To conclude, what I would like to ask you all is to summarize briefly what the IPAI stands for in your opinion. Let's start with you, Martin. What does the IPAI mean to you?
To me, the IPAI serves as a platform, a stable springboard that supports a secure future for our state, public administration, modernization, businesses, and research. A platform for a secure leap into the future.
Thank you, Martin. Eric, can you give us your summary, please?
I would say it's a platform for developing ideas together and implementing them in small teams. Teamwork is the take-home message, very important.
Christian, how about you?
From our point of view, personally, for me, access to company-wide and industry-wide expertise is key. Though, of course, it needs to be actively developed. As with AI, there's no guaranteed success here. What I also find exciting is the close link to research and academia, which is definitely valuable in this context.
Okay, three very clear core concepts that we have heard about: platform, teamwork, access to experts, and also access to science and research. I believe, dear friends here at the C-Days, these are things that should motivate you to stop by should you be close to Heilbronn. Heilbronn has truly become a place for AI. I find this development quite fascinating. The IPAI plays a central role in this, and its doors are wide open. We are a proud partner of the IPAI, and we have other players here who are too. We invite everybody to stop by and see for themselves. It's the effectiveness of a shared ecosystem and a true AI network. Thank you very much, and thank you for your attention.
This session is about a wealth of new opportunities. Welcome to our next executive interview here on stage with Microsoft's President for Small Medium Enterprise Business and Channel, Mr. Ralph Haupter. Alongside here with me on the stage, and you all know him so well, our COO at Bechtle and C-Days host, Mr. Michael Guschlbauer. Welcome to both of you.
Thank you so much, Michael. I'm excited to be here again at Bechtle C-Days, looking forward to it.
Thank you. Hi, Ralph, and hi, everybody in the audience. I'm looking forward to the discussion with Ralph and the opportunity with Microsoft there.
Ladies and gentlemen, what we see behind us here is obviously a countdown. Ralph, do you have an idea what we are counting down here?
I think I have a very good guess on this one. We're counting down in seconds, which is awesome to see the end of Windows 10. Now, the end is also giving us an opportunity to look positive in what's the change bringing coming to Windows 11. I think it's a symbolic statement, really opening a new area of technology going on Windows 11, where you have a more secure, more data-oriented, and more AI-based operating system. I know it's hard. Change is not always what you want, but in this very specific case, I'm excited on the capabilities, what it brings, and I'm also excited with you as Bechtle being a fantastic partner, helping us get customers to the newest and greatest.
Thank you, Ralph. I'm not surprised that you have this important date on your mind, Ralph. What is your finding about the readiness of the millions of users and customers in the customer segment that you oversee at Microsoft towards this important date?
Look, I mean, the fact is Windows 11 has already surpassed Windows 10 install base. It's broad, widely used. It's deep experiences out there in the market on the customer base. It has this momentum, especially when you look over the last years, the hardware innovation is taking place on the platform. The real innovation is taking place on the platform. It brings you, as a customer, higher capabilities when everything's security. It brings you higher capabilities on everything AI. You're looking at the capabilities from there, from your operating system, driving into your backend, into your cloud, into your data infrastructure, I think is super good.
From that perspective, I know there are a lot of work that needs to happen to have really migration plans, which are helping global companies and small companies to get the best benefit out of that, where I make sure that the hardware applications are really running well. It's super. As I said in the beginning, with partners like Bechtle, for us, it's a unique opportunity. All customers we have been able to migrate really confirm the benefit and the change it brings, especially in times of insecurity. AI is important. That's just a must-happen right now, where we all double down on our energy and focus to help our customers.
Michael, I know this is an important date for us at Bechtle and for you as well. What is your view on that?
Yeah, first of all, thank you, Ralph, for highlighting the significance of this moment. Not as a deadline to fear, but as a strategic opportunity. At Bechtle, we are fully focused on this start of a new chapter of productivity, security, and digital transformation. The countdown is real, but with the right guidance, it's a chance to leap forward now. We are working closely with customers across all sectors to ensure that they are not just ready for Windows 11, but able to unlock their full potential, from advanced security and seamless cloud integration to AI-powered tools that are reshaping work. We have the opportunity now to rethink workflows, modernizing infrastructure, and aligning IT with business goals. With your expertise in managed services and system integration, we help customers navigate compatibility, application readiness, and user adoption quickly and securely. Every organization is unique, so our approach is always customer-centric.
Together with Microsoft, we are committed to making this transition a success.
Ralph, both yourself and Michael outlined a range of reasons for this modernization now. At the heart, two things: security and AI readiness. Let us dive into these two main topics over the next few minutes of our conversation. Microsoft is a true leader in security. What are the highlights here from your perspective?
Look, I think security is just absolutely critical for enterprise-grade operations. From that perspective, our commitment, as much as our mission, is to really support every organization of every size. We understand, especially in small and medium enterprises, the security vulnerability is maybe even higher. At the same time, the capacity, the resources, the investment capabilities are even tighter for these companies. Therefore, us making sure that we have really the right capabilities and the right product portfolios for these customers is super important. We run Microsoft's zero-trust mindset. That means we're verifying every access request and every activity in the mindset of how we protect our customers. We therefore offer clearly a perspective where we want to make sure we are unique in helping customers end-to-end.
We go from the device perspective, we go from the data perspective, and we really have the portfolio which is defending customers and their assets left to right. We need partners like Bechtle to make sure that their capabilities and the way it's implemented and supported are done on a platform basis. With AI coming to play, understanding the compliance and the needs of data in a secure environment is even more important. Last but not least, customers in the European Union, I think, have even higher demand on understanding what we do for privacy and protection of data.
Just being there as a partner with things that bond deeply, what the platform needs to look like, what offerings need to be there in the mindset of small and medium enterprises, but then also having partners who are able to bring that forward as a provider of SOC, as a provider of technology, I think is super important. That's where we want to focus, and that's where our partnership is so meaningful. Last but not least, I just want to make sure there's a deep understanding of our commitment. If anything, security has the highest priority for us as a company. We have a secure future initiative as the program we run as a company. We have more than 34,000 engineers doing nothing else than developing technology to defend the assets and the knowledge and the capabilities and the idea of our customers.
Everybody in our company, no matter which product, which portfolio, which function, is actually paid on the performance of us doing the finest job for our customers. I know it's very easy said, but we want to prove it each single day. We want to prove it in front of our small and medium enterprises with Bechtle because there's capability globally, and there's capability and assets globally needed, which Bechtle brings to our partnership and to our platform capabilities.
Ralph said that the most powerful tool is the right mindset towards security. He stated that the zero-trust mindset is crucial at Microsoft. I know the same applies for us at Bechtle, and we promote that very powerful zero-trust concept to our customers. Yet, by far, we do not see it established everywhere where it should be. That's a big problem. Why is this? What can we do together about it?
Before I answer your question, Michael, let me refer to Ralph. I'm grateful that you emphasize Microsoft's commitment in this field. This is an element of our partnership that brings us even closer together because IT security is of central importance to our joint customers, especially in the mid-market. Requirements are rising rapidly. Cyber attacks are becoming more complex, and regulatory demands are stickier. As a longstanding Microsoft partner, Bechtle is making significant investments in expanding our security expertise. With now over 600 specialists, state-of-the-art cyber defense centers, numerous competence centers across Europe, and innovative managed security services, we offer a holistic protection concept from prevention to response. The zero-trust principle is our guiding framework. No access without verification, with identities and devices continuously authenticated and monitored. This enables companies to actively manage risk while driving innovation and growth securely, together with Microsoft for sustainable digital sovereignty and trust.
Our European focus is reflected in numerous international projects and partnerships where we ensure the highest security standards. Bechtle is certified by the German Federal Office for Information Security, called BSI, as a qualified APT response provider, supporting organizations around the clock in defending against targeted attacks. A few weeks ago, we achieved the BSI C5 attestation for our data centers, a testament to the highest cloud security standards and a key factor for our customers' digital sovereignty in Europe.
Okay, gentlemen, let's switch gears to AI, shouldn't we? You know, it's a topic of the day, of the time, of the year, of the century. I don't know. It's so big. It's also big for small and medium-sized companies and organizations, or at least it should be big. Ralph, how should small and medium-sized organizations act in this field now?
I think it's a fantastic opportunity where we all give small and medium enterprises the same technology as big companies, and there's no need to actually feel disadvantaged because you don't have the organizational size. You have the same opportunity of innovation speed with the technology. We see it in so many cases just happening right now. The fact that we're giving enterprise AI capabilities access with Copilot for free is just an indication of how committed we are at Microsoft to make sure that everybody, each organization, each enterprise gets access to the technology and can start testing, building out capabilities and functionality. It is really with the belief and really with the desire to make sure that we're kind of leveling the playing field and everybody can enable the technology, which is all about generating competitiveness, generating growth, generating speed to access, and focusing on innovation.
We are super passionate about small and medium enterprises. We are operating with a view of 400 million companies globally, like you do. You're passionate on small and medium enterprises. These are companies who are taking care of 99% of employment. That's where the growth, the GDP growth, is really happening in each single country. That's where our joint passion is sitting. I think that success just shows. The fact that you, Bechtle, have been the first European tech company who is taking left to right, wall to wall, AI for every employee and made it available to users of technology. You see all our own cases where you demonstrate ROI.
It's super meaningful and very exciting because I think that's just the light which we want to give everybody and the perspective we want to give everybody on how fast and how easy it is to be accessible and really change things for your organization. At the other hand, where you have a partner who has done and eat their own medicine and take their own medicine and just have shown and proven what is possible.
Michael, add to that.
Ralph, let me underline the most important message, and I know we are fully aligned here. Now is the time to act. Waiting is not an option. At Bechtle, we've seen firsthand the benefits of early AI adoption. As one of the first companies, as Ralph mentioned, to roll out Copilot, over a third of our employees, more than 5,000, had access right from the start. This early move gave us a real competitive edge. The learning curve is steep, both technologically and culturally. Those who start today will be the ones shaping tomorrow's success. AI at Bechtle goes far beyond technology. We offer a broad range of services from hands-on workshops to use case consulting, and we work closely with a strong network of partners to bring additional expertise to every project. Embracing AI isn't just another IT project.
It's a fundamental transformation that impacts every part of the business. That's why the best time to start is absolutely now.
Wonderful. Gentlemen, may I ask you to share an example from your business, from what you see each day?
Let me give it a try first here. I think the case which we jointly developed and which I came across is Managers Without Borders. That is an organizational mission to eradicate poverty and have 1,000+ global volunteers. Obviously, it's easy to understand if an organization like that with 1,000 people and more than 20 years of experience has data which is available in a very unstructured way. What I'm very happy and excited to see is when Bechtle actually implemented a cloud-based knowledge platform and used large language models to structure their data and make sure that this is available now in their daily engagement. You have now 20 years of data for 1,000+ people across the planet distributed, coming to life in Office 365, all on SharePoint.
All information comes based on AI information forward to employees in the way they need it, in the speed they need it, with criteria and search capabilities done, and deep AI search criteria integrated on a cloud platform in the backend on Azure, which is super exciting to see. Bechtle is designing that one, designing that solution, and making sure that the access is done in a secure way globally. Super meaningful. It has sped up all kinds of information access, has driven acceleration of usage. I think also then it's giving people the opportunity to focus on their real tasks and not spend hours in trying to retrieve data out of repositories of history. I think it's fascinating to see, especially if you look at cases which are done by purpose, like Managers Without Borders.
I feel excited to us being able to show with technology really the step change on what these companies can achieve for us globally.
Thank you, Ralph. Michael, an example from your side?
Managers Without Borders is a great example of how AI can really create positive impact for the society. Thank you, Ralph, for sharing this example. Another impressive example will be even part of our C-Days program. Together with MI4People, an NGO, we've built an AI that can identify marine litter on and below the surface of our oceans. With this, cleaning missions by ship become much more efficient and targeted. You see, there are so many ways of creating benefit with AI. I'm really confident that together with our customers and Microsoft, we'll create many more.
Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Ralph, for sharing these examples. Very impressive. Great examples how AI really can create good things for the society and great benefit across the board. Now, we've touched upon several main pillars of the partnership between Bechtle and Microsoft and the impact that these pillars are creating for customers. We have to come to the end of our meeting here today. Certainly, Ralph, we wish that you come back soon again. We have you again here on stage. I'm asking you for a bet, a bet on AI and the medium-sized organizations in Europe. Next year, the years ahead, we can check in on your bet again and find out whether you're right. What's your bet on medium-sized organizations and AI in Europe?
I'm actually pretty bullish on the opportunity we see, especially if you look in the context of Europe. The strength of the European economy is based on mid-sized companies. The GDP growth in these economies is about 45%- 50%, backing on mid-sized companies. The reason on that one is there's a lot of technology and a lot of IP knowledge in these companies. If anything, AI is, I think, the core to make that innovation capabilities even shine more, to make these companies even more competitive on the basis of AI. We, together with Bechtle, do everything to make sure that each company can have access in a secure, compliant, EU-regulated way to AI. There's all confidence and all technology available to use global technology. We, as Microsoft, do everything to make each single large language model available on our platform.
You will see that the Azure infrastructure platform has more than 2,000 large language models right now available. You can use really the platform to get access to any large language model with specialization you think you need for your kind of capabilities and your innovation. In that combination with, A, Bechtle, a strong partner with experience and already run projects. B, I hope you see us as a partner really running global technology in a meaningful way, bringing real core AI innovation. C, making sure that you're deep committed to each single country's regulation and get that one. I'm convinced that mid-market, mid-sized customers across Europe have a fantastic opportunity right now. We need to accelerate. That's always the case. We need to take the first hurdle of really getting something done and get the experience.
The ingredients are there, and I'm super convinced that we will see a change in what is possible and will be super competitive out of the European market.
You're really bullish. I'm not surprised. You'll be not surprised that we will not bet against you on that. We'll meet again here, and then we are checking in on that one. Michael, as we're closing the session in a minute, what is your ambition for our partnership, Bechtle-Microsoft, for the future?
First of all, thank you, Ralph, for your statement. At Bechtle, our ambition is to shape Europe's digital future together with Microsoft. This partnership is built on trust, shared vision, and a deep commitment to empowering the Mittelstand and public sector alike. We want to be the go-to partner for organizations navigating complexity and embracing innovation. Whether it's cloud, AI, or security, our goal is to make technology work for people and businesses, not the other way around. With Microsoft's cutting-edge platforms and Bechtle's customer proximity and service excellence, we are uniquely positioned to help our customers lead, not just adapt. Our ambition is both to drive sustainable growth, digital sovereignty, and long-term success for Europe's economy.
Ralph, before you leave, we have one more thing. We have one more thing with you. That is our traditional Born Ready Challenge here on stage at C-Days, the Born Ready Challenge. I'm grateful that you are born ready and that you're taking the challenge. Quite easy, we are bringing the [mother] into the stage here. Thank you very much. It's your job, Ralph, to count down 3, 2, 1. Michael will push, and let's see what the outcome will be.
Okay, let me go. Mike, are you ready? Three.
Yeah, I'm ready. Born ready, yeah. Born ready.
Go for it.
Let's see. We are having one question for you, Ralph, that you have to answer right now in full honesty to all of us here, thousands of customers looking at you. In which field you are better than AI, Ralph? Now is the time.
Okay, let me take the spin here. I had a pretty good weekend and was able in one of the few occasions to go sailing. I actually think I will be the next 30 years absolutely better in sailing on the weekend than any year. I hope that helps you to set context.
Wonderful. Thank you very much. You're a sailor. Wonderful. Which lake, by the way?
I do it in the south of Germany, Lake Constance. It's a wonderful place to be. I'm inviting everybody to come and join.
Wonderful. You know, and a little advertisement for tourism in Germany as well. Thank you very much for that. Thank you very much indeed for taking the challenge, Ralph. Again, thank you for being with us. Have a great day. See you soon.
Happy C-Days. Thank you very much. See you.
Thank you.
I'm really looking forward to the next AI pitch here in the lift. It's about Managers Without Borders. In the executive interview with Ralph Haupter, Microsoft President, and Michael Kuschelbauer, our C-Days host, we talked about how AI makes a really valuable contribution here. Of course, I'm happy to see Florian again. Hi Flo. He'll give us some more details about this exciting and interesting AI use case.
That's right. Managers Without Borders is one of the most remarkable NGOs that I ever heard about. Managers assist humanitarian projects around the world. They're not giving money. They're giving their knowledge, their expertise that they've gathered in years to help fellow humans. However, this is actually more of a challenge than you might think because volunteers keep coming and going. New ones join, others leave, new projects come and go, and knowledge keeps coming and going.
It's a challenge to Managers Without Borders to have the right knowledge and information available in a way that will really help people. There are lots of documents, contents, visa requirements, project information, all stored in various places, mainly SharePoint Online and Microsoft Teams. Now, we cannot give every user access to SharePoint Online or Microsoft Teams. It would still require a lot of time to find the information people need. We've developed an AI solution that helps doing just that. People have fairly easy external access to inquire about a specific project to get the required information. Where was the project? How long did it take? How was it supported? Where exactly did people provide assistance? How much support was given? What remains to be done? What can I do? All that at one glance with reference to the content and the documents. This is AI that really makes a difference.
Great case, Flo. Thanks for the explanation. I guess we made it in time for the 83rd floor again.
We always do. Thank you.
Many of you are at the helm of large organizations or companies. These companies are like tankers or container vessels. In the past number of years, you've seen many of these tankers on a good course into the future, on a course towards sustainable corporate governance, sustainable strategy, sustainable future of a company. Let's be honest, we used to have tailwinds, and now there's a general sense of fatigue. The crew is becoming reluctant. Many are even questioning the purpose of the voyage. What we are seeing here has received an interesting name, of course. It has been termed Sustainability Fatigue, getting tired on the way towards more sustainability. This is by far no longer a merchant phenomenon.
It's really becoming a big challenge to companies and leaders alike. I would like to take the next minute here on our stage to find out, together with three wonderful guests, why people are getting so tired, where it started, and how decision makers can motivate the crew again and bring the ship on course, and where a sustainable corporate strategy can bring real added value, especially today. I'm delighted to welcome three guests to our discussions today. I'd like to start with my colleague and Board Member at Bechtle, Antje Leminski. Hi, Antje. Thanks for coming, and great to see you.
Thanks, Michael, for the invitation.
You know, one thing that has always characterized C-Days is the diversity of perspectives. We've asked two more guests to join us in the discussion. We have Dr. Lars Grotewold. He's Director of Climate Action at the Mercator Foundation. Another voice from practice of large global companies, Matthias Steybe, Vice President for Corporate Sustainability at Voith Group. Welcome to both of you, Matthias and Lars.
Hello, Antje, Lars, and Michael. Nice to be here today.
From my side too, welcome and thanks for having me today.
Let us start and define the term a little better. Antje, the first question goes to you. Sustainability Fatigue, a new term that's been coined and used widely. Do you use it a lot? What's your experience? What examples can you see and how do you situate this in a corporate context?
Actually, the term isn't really that new. For me, the concept of fatigue means, in general, that people shut off. They stop listening. You know, given the crises that seem to be permanent, that we feel every day, the many bad news, and the context of sustainability, people will ask the question, can I make a personal contribution at all anymore? Will that be enough? That can lead to resignation and, in many cases, to hopelessness and even go as far as people really shutting off. They stop listening and they don't contribute anymore.
Personally, I think that trend certainly has been furthered, at least in part, through the many geopolitical changes that we've seen in recent months, which has, in fact, led some companies to at least question their strategies. Some of them have ditched their diversity programs. Some have called their net zero targets into question. I must say, in my immediate environment, when I look at Bechtle, when I look at my team, when I look at the teams I work with, I do not perceive that trend to such a degree. On the contrary, I can say we even stepped up our sustainability activities last year. We extended our team because we received many, many more queries linked to sustainability. We answered them professionally. We probably put more energy into sustainability reporting than ever before.
Something else, which is also not news anymore, it's a reality now, we are very strong and active with our Bechtle Foundation, with which we want to raise and foster young girls' and women's interest in the STEM subject. I believe all these are good examples that have really taken off in recent months and for which we receive a lot of support from our customers too.
Antje, let me ask you one thing. You've just mentioned it. We've never received as many queries about the subject as last year, for instance. From your point of view, what's the contribution IT can make here? We are the C-Days in IT event. What could be the contribution of IT towards sustainability and perhaps also as an antidote against that fatigue?
I think, first of all, you need to take a structured approach. When we receive customer questions, which are all very individual, we have to take them seriously and give a well-founded answer. Depending on the customer situation, the questions vary a lot. Many customers have started choosing between the different vendor products we offer based on very strict hard sustainability criteria. For example, the emissions footprint of different alternatives. For example, increasingly, customers from the public sector ask us to provide part of their portfolio from what we used IT secondhand. Customers, especially those who don't just buy, but those who use our financing services or who buy as a service model from us, discuss at an early point in time the replacement of their IT after 36 or 48 months.
They talk about residual value, economic advantages that such a strategy has for our customers. When we put the IT back into the cycle, also to society.
A real bunch of good examples here. Last, can I ask you to come into the discussion here? At the Mercator Foundation, you spend a lot of time watching cross-company trends and developments. What does your barometer say in terms of sustainability fatigue right now?
Michael, let me make some remarks about our general observations and from an annual company survey that we conduct together with the Bertelsmann Foundation, the Sustainability Transformation Monitor. I can confirm many of the things that Antje has just said. We see a slackening momentum. The dynamism of sustainability in the transformation of companies has declined overall. However, only slightly. It's not like the subject has disappeared completely. I would say that in many fields of business, there is a very solid foundation for sustainability. Those characteristics, strength, and dynamics depend, however, on many factors and drivers. These factors keep changing.
According to our survey, strong drivers of sustainability always used to be employees, especially the younger generation. Interestingly, that seems to be on the decline. Central drivers are politics and regulations. In the last survey, political uncertainty was given as one of the most frequent obstacles to more sustainability. Another important point is that companies often report about rising resource pressures. Wherever sustainability was considered nice to have, it is one of the areas where the first cuts are made. My guess is that we are now in a phase where the wheat is separated from the chaff. A company that pursues sustainability, basically compliance-driven, is likely to abandon that goal if there's a little headwind. This is fundamentally different with companies where sustainability is part and parcel of their corporate strategy.
Thanks, Lars, for that insight into your scientific work, which includes many organizations and companies. Matthias, could you give us your view as a person working in business? Have we perhaps been too ambitious in defining goals? Have we overdone communication? Have we inundated people and not produced any results? What would you say are the reasons why companies and organizations are now facing that fatigue?
I think we need to distinguish between the different perspectives, them and us. In the preparation to this discussion, I thought about what we did wrong as sustainability officers. I reflected on what's happening in the EU and Germany, but also how our European neighbors are doing in terms of sustainability. I noticed that in the past years, we really overexaggerated the aspect of risk. I worked in a company for 10 years that was supervised by the BaFin Authority, and the word risk was always very prominent when we talk about sustainability. That was a mistake, I think.
We should have talked about opportunity. We should have been closer to the customer. Antje put it quite well. I've seen customer constellations in France where we won double-digit million budgets for sustainability reasons alone. When procurement put a lot of emphasis on sustainability, for instance. In that respect, this perspective of us and them, we have to realign it from regulation to customers if we want to pick up speed again.
Thank you, Matthias . A question to the three of you. We agree that today it is an ethical necessity to look at sustainability as part of the corporate strategy and to embed it there. It's pretty clear from your answers that the subject requires a new context. We have to reposition it with a clear reference to value creation, innovation, and as a driver for business success. How can that be done? Matthias, what do you say?
I think we can do it if we change the language. We need to emphasize where we create value for business. As sustainability officers and as teams, we have become a kind of separate island within our organizations over the last years. We have to get closer to the business again. We have to make it clear that we are value creators, that investments in sustainability really deliver ROI. Current studies reveal that companies are marching in this direction here. Sustainability is a long-term investment that pays off. At the same time, we notice that we did put our money on the right horse. Although in some places, regulation is being cut. You see this in Europe or in Germany. There are announcements to deregulate.
On the other hand, in Asia, they're keeping their foot on the accelerator. China, South Korea, and Thailand are massively pressing for human rights, environmental due diligence, and clean energy. I think this is a signal we must not miss.
Thank you, Matthias. Change the language. Get out of the silo. Get out of that partially self-inflicted isolation of our teams and our organizations. Antje?
Yes, I think Lars said it very nicely. Sustainability always has to be part of the business strategy. For me, that is the essential point. If it hasn't been done so far, and this is the case in some companies, embedding sustainability in the business strategy and stating very, very clearly what this means in terms of innovation. I n our case, for instance, platform economy, our strong Bechtle clouds. This is an excellent example of sustainable business strategy in the sense of innovation or as a service model, which have become more and more important. Very tangible examples. Easy to understand both for the people and employees too. At least from my point of view, we need to make sustainability measurable.
Of course, in a way, regulations are forcing us to do so. EU taxonomy or CSRD requirements, they require measurability. Beyond that, we have to demonstrate compliance with certain KPIs. You have to put that into your sustainability reporting. Again, beyond that, many, many small examples, measures, qualitative and quantitative measures.
Q uite a few examples. Lars, you now have heard two voices from the business world. Antje and Matthias, would you like to add anything from the scientific point of view?
Very briefly, I agree with all that, I'd say. Michael, that sustainability suffers from what you said, from being associated with naive do-goodism. It shouldn't be. It's about hard business interests, material risks, and real opportunities. Both have just explained it. It's important in our service supported that sustainability has to be clearly defined at board level with a clear operational set of targets and measures and a clear reporting structure. The companies that have that are more successful in their sustainability implementation, but also in internal communication.
Thank you, Lars. Your answer is an excellent link to an aspect which I really wanted to address. That's the question about tangible measures. What has to be done to bring sustainability from the silo into the corporate strategy and to keep it there? Matthias, what do you think?
I'll give you a good example. About a year ago, we joined the SBTI. Now we have a sustainability team and have defined a set of measures that we track ourselves. For example, our global energy transformation program to save 74 GW of energy, which will reduce our expenditure by EUR 6 million at the end of the day. I think these are signals that are compatible with business principles. They can show that we are indeed business-minded and that we can create value with our work, not just to protect the climate, but also in terms of operational expenses.
Nice example, very specific. Thank you, Matthias. Sustainability and digitization, Antje. They are linked and they can't be separated. People like talking about the twin transformation, but leaving the buzzword aside for a second, how do they go together? What's your understanding of sustainable digitization?
Sustainable digitization means following not only economic criteria, but applying ecological and social principles as well. I think much of this has already been mentioned. For example, when it comes to ecology, we are considering energy-efficient data centers. When we make infrastructure decisions together with our customers, we think about the cloud, we think about green coding. These are nice examples, or circular IT. In the same way, we can also think about social aspects, about digital participation and inclusion, and make sure that ethical principles are followed in data protection. When we think about AI, that's a big buzzword right now. That would be the sustainability aspect of digitization.
Lars, can I ask you to give your opinion. What do you observe in your foundation, looking at companies when you think about successful or maybe unsuitable strategies to counter skepticism or accusations of greenwashing among employees or stakeholders? How can we regain trust that maybe has been lost? How can we regain this in the long run?
Honestly, from my point of view, that's pretty simple. Communicate honestly, otherwise you're not authentic. For example, as a company, I cannot set myself a goal to reach net zero by 2040 without having a valid transition plan with clear milestones, or pretend I could achieve it by planting just a few trees in Brazil. Sustainability results in target conflicts and highlights them. Just look at the term ESG. It's sort of target conflicts. I cannot optimize in three different dimensions at the same time. That's physically impossible. A little more honesty, a little less high gloss PR, and we'd all be better off.
Clear statement, thank you. Antje, back to the IT aspect once more. Why is it important that such integrated cross-departmental sustainability strategies are always defined and implemented involving IT?
In order to stress the relevance, the sincerity of the efforts, I think it's important that sustainability should never be just a phrase on the job for a sustainability department. In our company, we have four central fields of action in our sustainability strategy: ethics in business, environment, people, and the digital future. We've just heard that's how it should be. We make sure too that we define short, mid, and long-term measures for each of these fields of action. I don't know any measures, although they may originally come from the sustainability team, that wouldn't involve IT for the implementation and communications, but above all the different functional areas such as purchasing, logistics, or business managers for the execution.
The most recent project, which was very, very comprehensive, we started it, now it's being implemented, is sustainability at scale, where we put use cases of our customers with specific questions on the subject of sustainability. We put it into use cases and we've defined place here, embedded them in our organization as I've just described. I think that this wide approach creates acceptance.
We've heard many great examples and strategies and starting points. You explained how we could be successful in fighting sustainability fatigue and not just maintain a status quo but start a positive development going forward. Often it takes clear personal commitment and input from you as leaders. I think you are committed. You know how to provide impetus to drive such a development in a company, in an organization. Can I ask you for a final panel round to give a few more examples or hints or recommendations? How could managers like you make valuable personal contributions and commitments to keep sustainability alive and dynamic in organizations? Lars, would you like to go first?
I think it's important not to let the topic slip. We need to bring it up time and again and consider also structural incentive mechanisms, not just talk about it. One way to do that would be to include sustainability goals in the compensation package. Right now, only 1 in 5 companies in Germany do this. It's important that top management lives the corporate principles. It's difficult to preach sustainability and later ask the driver to rip down the motorway at 200 in the V8 turbo diesel. Practice what you preach and set low-key incentives. Also, confront the whole team with a topic. We have a self-organized sustainability working group that provides new input all the time. Sustainability is a joint effort and it requires space for critical discourse too. It's pretty easy to create and then you start working as a team.
Thank you. Matthias?
I think as managers and leaders, we have to lead the change. Part of that is listening. What do our internal stakeholder groups do? I just organized two events with sales colleagues, one in China, one global. First, everyone just listens. We listen. We try to understand what colleagues need. I think this is something that can restore the business relevance that we may have lost on the way as sustainability teams. I agree with Lars. We must walk the talk. We have to stand for what we tell people, give good examples. Of course, we need to keep moving. We must keep moving in these times, adjusting to regulatory changes or other things in the company. I think that's a good recipe for success.
Y our personal commitment or ideas, Antje.
I think the simple fact that we are discussing this here on the panel today, that we have this really valuable exchange here on the stage, is a very good example of how you can show that you're serious about sustainability. How you can make it very tangible and, to get back to the title of our panel, how you can convey everything but fatigue, but rather radiate alertness and sincerity.
Absolutely. Thank you very much to all three of you for these strong and good statements. I think we're taking home a very valuable message from this panel. We are staying on the ball. No time for fatigue. IT and digitization are integral, essential components. I would like to join Antje in thanking our panelists, Matthias and Lars. Thank you very much. Also for your willingness to join us at short notice. A great and important panel. I'm looking forward to the rest of the program. I would like to say thank you very much.
Yes, thank you.
Here's another episode of The CTO On featuring Dirk Müller-Niesner. This time, it's all about our experience as Customer Zero of Microsoft Copilot. By the way, this also brings back a personal memory for me. I clearly remember the day when, as one of 15,000 Bechtle employees, I found an email in my inbox one morning that basically said, "Copilot is now available to almost all of you." I thought to myself, "That's a bold move." That was my first reaction. Honestly, it was much more than that. That day marked the start of an exciting journey.
What Dirk, our CTO, experienced on this journey and what he wants to share with you is coming up now. Dirk, over to you.
Since 2024, Bechtle has been one of the major adopters of Microsoft Copilot. With around 5,000 licenses for our colleagues spread across 14 countries, we're proud to be Customer Zero. We're seeing firsthand how this AI assistant is transforming the way we work and also what challenges come with rolling it out at scale. What have we learned? The tech itself is just the beginning. Copilot delivers huge value from saving time on routine tasks all the way to creator support with complex topics. The key to success is guiding the entire process. AI isn't an autopilot. It's a partner, and it's important to understand and use it the right way. Our top best practice is communication and education.
From day one, we've been completely open about what Copilot can do, its limits, how we handle data privacy and ethics, and how we approach security. That's how we've built trust and acceptance. In parallel, we've provided extensive training and tutorials, not just technical, but focused on healthy adoption, changing workflows. One key takeaway: organizational readiness is crucial. Companies already embracing Microsoft 365 and the cloud see quick wins with Copilot. It's not automatic. We need to support our team constantly, collect feedback, learn from experiences, and fine-tune our processes. At Bechtle, this large-scale rollout has boosted productivity and truly ramped up our expertise in AI. That know-how goes straight into our consulting services for customers. It's all about sharing what we've learned and optimized for ourselves. Of course, there have been hurdles. Some expected too much or worried about mistakes from inaccurate outputs.
The only way through is an open error culture and an honest understanding that Copilot is an assistant. It always needs human oversight. My advice to other organizations: don't just focus on the tech. Take a holistic approach with change management, training, and ongoing dialogue. That's how AI becomes a real sustainable helper in daily life. Bechtle continues to lead the way, and we're excited to share our experiences so your company can make the most of what AI has to offer.
Today, when you give a presentation to top management, they expect something more than just the word AI in a title, right? What's needed today are real use cases for real problems with real business-critical value. Something that's still the same is that they usually give you very little time to get the message across. We all know that the attention span has shrunk. That's the problem of my colleague Flo, who is with me in the list here today. Hi Flo, where are you going?
83rd floor, management presentation. AI use case, I guess.
That's right. I'm sure you are going to do a good job because you have a really strong use case to present: the AI-powered smart-based solution of Marabu. Have a safe trip and all the best for the meeting.
Thank you, I'll do my best.
Let me tell you something about Marabu. Marabu is something like a hidden champion in its area. They make printing inks and liquid coatings, amongst other stuff. The product range of Marabu comprises more than 20,000 articles for private and corporate customers to paint, varnish, or coat all kinds of things. For each of those 20,000 products, there are documents that describe how exactly the product works, how they're applied, what's the pot life, how many layers do I have to apply so that the paint will cover well at the end of the day. These PDFs are incredibly long. The problem is, no one reads them. We have thought about how we could help people access the relevant information at a time when they need it. We use simple vectorization of documents to generate a search result and use AI with a language model to generate answers from it.
How does this work then for the user? It's on the screen right behind me. You see that the chat interface we've developed together with Marabu and provide to them. Like with ChatGPT or Copilot, I can simply enter a prompt with a question about a product that I might have. That's available for internal staff members and for customers. It gives the appropriate answer for the product, in this case even with a reference to the documents or PDF files that describe the product. The cool thing is, I can ask follow-up questions. The system will understand them and interpret them and present a solution and a result. Actually, the initial idea did not even come from us, from Bechtle.
It came from Marabu because the Marabu heads of sales and production had a coffee together and talked about issues, and one of the problems identified was that no one reads these documents. The result is currently the most successful AI solution at Marabu, smart-based by Bechtle.
I am really looking forward to the next session because we will have two real digital champions here, digital security champions to be precise. Our first guest is related to something that we all love dearly: delicious food. This is the job of Florian Jörgens, who will be with us today. He is Chief Information Security Officer at Vorwerk. Yes, the Thermomix company. If you're familiar with the Thermomix, you will most certainly know the digital platform Cookidoo. In his role as Chief Information Security Officer, he brings together the new innovative product, the Thermomix, and the community and digital platform. I'm sure that this constitutes a really exciting challenge in terms of security. Welcome, Florian. It's great to have you here.
Thank you for the invitation. It's great to be here.
Awesome. Before we dive into our topic, I am delighted to announce and welcome the second protagonist of this session. You all know him, of course. It's Matthias Schick. Welcome, Matthias, to join us.
Hi.
Matthias is Bechtle's Business Manager for IT Security, and he's also a true leader. He is responsible for the Bechtle security community with now over 600 members. I understand that you're also a Thermomix user.
That's right. And so are my children.
Very good. There are over 100,000 recipes on Florian's digital platform. How many have you tried so far?
Probably 100, my children mostly.
Did they all taste good?
Sure.
Let's not even think about what would happen if this digital platform were to fail, how that would affect the meal planning of millions of households. I presume it's better to keep it going. That's exactly what Florian does. We would like to talk about a topic that is incredibly important in this context. Of course, we talk a lot here on stage about the super sophisticated, high-end security solutions. You two are here to add another factor, and that is people, the role of people in this process. Both of you believe that humans are, in fact, the most decisive factor. Let's talk about the so-called human firewall. Florian, why is this human firewall so important, even though we have sophisticated technological systems to ensure IT security?
That's relatively simple. According to studies, even today, 70% to up to 90% of all so-called cyber attacks are still aimed at people. That's because tech has gotten way better over the last few years with firewalls, EDR, mobile device management, and so on. People haven't really changed that much and are still triggered by the same psychological impulses like curiosity, pressure, and fear. It's way easier for attackers to go after people instead of focusing on the systems.
The focus is definitely on people. Matthias, the human firewall concept has evolved in recent years, and it needs to continue evolving because of technological disruptions. What are we looking at?
It's true. IT has become the backbone of many companies, which has also made them very vulnerable. On the other hand, if you focus too much on technology, people may end up not knowing what's going on when attacks happen because they assume that technology will take care of everything. I've brought a diagram with me to illustrate this. Security, when understood as cyber resilience, is now about being prepared for attacks and being able to recover quickly from minor incidents. It needs to be understood holistically. You can see here that technology is at 11:00, but you can also see that technology only works in conjunction with people and processes across the organization. You can also see that the security doesn't end with the company. It's a circle. There are also many external stakeholders to work with to ensure that you're secure and remain resilient.
Thanks, Matthias. Florian, both in your operational role at Vorwerk and as an author, you are dealing with the question of which specific measures and strategies are truly effective in strengthening security awareness and decision-making skills among employees in this context. What are your key recommendations?
There are basically three points. Firstly, continuity is crucial. Creating awareness is not a project. It's a process. This means that one-off training courses usually have no lasting effect. They need to be refreshed regularly and implemented as an ongoing process within the company. Secondly, target group orientation. A scattergun approach where one size fits all usually works very poorly.
This means that the measures must be tailored to the respective work context. The risk factor for an administrator is different from that of a production employee, for example. Accordingly, the whole approach must be developed individually for the respective target group. The last point is closely related to practical relevance. This means that the content must be linked to real threats in everyday work. Abstract scenarios, on the other hand, have very little effect on behavior. That's why it's important to provide examples that employees can directly relate to and understand because they encounter them every day in their day-to-day work.
Matthias, with your community, your job is to observe such projects. Florian, as you said, processes of change and awareness raising among many of your customers. What are the major obstacles? Why do these things fail?
Of course, security should not be viewed solely as a technical challenge. The second point is that you need a corporate security culture that also embraces learning from mistakes and encourages people not to be afraid. Basically, you have to encourage your colleagues to report incidents, potential incidents, and errors quickly, safe in the knowledge that there will be no repercussions. Psychological factors are therefore extremely important. In fact, everyone involved in cybersecurity should also have a psychological background because if people don't buy into it, it simply doesn't work. We are also now seeing through regulatory requirements how important it is to involve top management. When security is seen as something that's important and necessary for gaining a business advantage and for making the digitalization that every company is going through safe and sustainable, when top management is on board, it works.
Without them, it's really tough and ultimately it doesn't work.
To conclude, let's take a quick look into the future. How can you adapt and further develop the general concept and practical application of human firewalls in light of evolving technological parameters?
There are various new attack scenarios, particularly due to AI. Deepfake is a very relevant factor here. Nowadays, it's extremely easy to manipulate voice recordings or video footage of the CEO, for example, and use social engineering to mislead employees. In principle, however, the measures are the same as they were many years ago. An important point that has already been mentioned is a culture of not being afraid to make mistakes. This must be clearly implemented in the company so that employees aren't afraid to report incidents or mistakes they might have made so that the security department can respond more quickly.
In addition, awareness raising measures should be practical and ideally create added value for the private lives of employees as well. That's why we've established information security for family and kids at the Vorwerk Group, because we believe that if something is so important for employees that they teach their own children about it, because the campaign focused on cybersecurity for kids, they will also apply what they've learned in their everyday work. After all, when do adults usually start wearing bike helmets again? Exactly, when they're out and about with their own children. This link to our private lives helps raise awareness because haven't we all received emails at one point claiming that our PayPal account has been compromised or that parcel is waiting for us? This approach really works best. Some of these things are so banal, so simple and obvious, yet they're often neglected.
In that sense, both of you have really sent out an important signal, the message that in the security context, the human factor is crucial and must not be neglected. Thank you both for sharing your experience as business expert, book author, and leader of the Bechtle security community. Thank you very much for participating in our C-Days, and we will now continue with the program.
Hello, welcome back to the stage at C-Days. What do we do at Bechtle when we are convinced that a topic will be really important in the future? When we are truly convinced that it will be important for you, we set up a competence center. It's such a competence center and the topic that is being addressed there is something I'd like to talk about in the next few minutes.
I'm very happy that the person who is launching this important initiative, Bechtle, is here with us today. Sebastian Dittrich. He's with us today as the founder of the Competence Center for Quantum Technology. He is from the Bonn-based Systemhaus . Hello and welcome, Sebastian.
Hello, Michael. Good morning. I'm happy to be here.
Great. Thank you for coming. By the way, I was tempted to say that we are setting up a competence center for quantum computing. You said, no, no, no, we're not doing that. We're setting up a competence center for quantum technology. Please explain to me and to the audience what the difference is.
There's a difference in how we use quantum technologies, especially quantum computers, which will bring us huge benefits over the next three to five years in terms of optimization, research, and process control. Here, of course, we also see the danger that this technology could attack what we consider so valuable today and perhaps decrypt data that cannot be decrypted today, where a quantum computer will need much, much less time to do that in three to five years. This means that we have two pillars in this area of quantum technology. The use of quantum computers, mainly for our own purposes, but also protection against precisely these systems. That is exactly where we say we need to focus our efforts. We need to understand what the word quantum actually means for us, especially, and how we can deal with this in this area.
Computing processes that today take years, weeks, months, or days in the old world will then be possible in seconds. What does that mean for companies today?
For companies today, it means that the dimensions will change completely. On the quantum computer side, we have computing times of seconds, maybe minutes, where a normal classical computer today would take years, decades, or even longer to perform these tasks. Accordingly, the companies today have to think about how to protect the data that exists today, which isn't only stored in my company's basement, but is also being processed worldwide. How do I protect it, and how can I offer algorithms that will prevent even a quantum computer from cracking it in three to five years? This is precisely the point. Data that is stored today must still be secure in three years' time so that no one can access it. How does it now decrypt later is what poses the greatest threat to the community. The time to start is now, or rather yesterday.
We have to start taking action today to ensure that this threat does not exist with data that is stolen today. Data stolen today may not be adequately processed by the thieves today. In a few years, with the help of quantum technology and quantum computers, it might be possible. A very exciting and, of course, somewhat unsettling prospect.
In your opinion, what steps can and should companies take today to achieve quantum-safe IT?
A company needs to know where it stands. What does it use in its IT? Which algorithms are currently running, and which of these can be adapted or need to be adapted? Do you have a load-intensive network? The first step here is to carry out a crypto inventory to understand and know what you have and where the danger spots are. Only then can you move on to the next step of risk assessment in order to make sensible decisions. You have to decide what data you want to protect, how to protect it, how long to protect it, and where migration strategy is needed to counter precisely this threat and protect the company and what is most important.
Let's be honest, Sebastian. Many IT organizations, especially in security, already have an enormous workload today. Just think of the new field of AI and how many new tasks it will create. Now you come along and say, you need to start thinking today about what quantum computing and quantum technology will bring us in the future. Isn't it understandable that many people say, let's just wait and see? That's all pie in the sky. We'll deal with it when the time comes. What do you tell them?
It's understandable, of course. People always deal with what needs their attention most urgently. We have a topic here in the field of quantum technology that will help many companies to improve, be it sensor technology, networking, or the use of quantum computing. On the other hand, how do you protect against any threats? To do that, you need to know your supply chain, where everything is coming from, what the value chain looks like, so that you can then protect yourself. You need a migration strategy, but to do that, you need to know your risks. To do that, you need to know what you have. This is where it comes down to taking decisions and connecting the dots. AI, quantum technologies, neuromorphic computing.
There are many, many new topics coming our way, and all of this will eventually come together in the use of these technologies and also in protecting against them. We've learned that it's best to talk about it and then demystify it to understand what quantum means. The word quantum still triggers a total defensive reflex in many people who say, I'll deal with it in three years. No, we can explain what's behind it, what the pillars are, and how to prepare yourself so that you can already do something about it today.
That's the beginning of a roadmap that you are describing here. How you can approach it, demystifying the term, and perhaps then begin to tackle the topic. Of course, at this point, the question goes to you, Sebastian. As I said at the beginning, you have embarked on a journey with your colleagues. You are in the process of establishing a competence center within Bechtle for quantum technology at our location in Bonn. What services can you already offer today to companies that say, yes, I understand it. I don't want to wait three or five years to look into it when it might be too late in terms of certain aspects. I want to deal with it now. How can you help today?
Our offering starts with what we are doing right here now. My physicist and I are constantly on stages, panels, discussions, and events explaining what is happening in the world right now. We hold workshops with the customers directly, but also in a broader sense with customers and partners. We hold webinars on the topic of quantum-safe IT, where we try to network with each other and then take the next step. We actually start talking about it. We have customer discussions and take the next steps. Ideation workshops are where we're one step further. Here, the customers bring in their knowledgeable people, and we maybe look at the result of their crypto inventory and can jointly assess risks. We're active in consulting, but of course, we're also active in the hardware technology themselves. Hardware sales, software sales, and services.
We have three trained technicians in Bonn who can build, transport, and operate exactly the kind of quantum computers you just saw behind us. That's exactly the point. We do both sides and are therefore very broadly positioned with a large network of partners across the board. The usual suspects at Bechtle, but also the new startups that are coming onto the market, which are being funded and which provide exactly the technologies we need. We are the spite and the web. We are the center. We try to bring everything together. We first provide the customer with the knowledge. We demystify the technology, and then we bring the benefits to their companies.
Okay, wonderful. Thank you, Sebastian. One of the big topics here at C-Days this year is innovation. What we've just been talking about, quantum technology, is probably one of the most fascinating fields for innovation, one that will accompany us all and one that I personally find very fascinating. I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to take a first look into this world, and I'm sure we'll see each other again here on the C-Days stage in the coming years, Sebastian, and continue talking about what can be done, how this technology can be of great benefit, but also how it needs to be mastered and properly understood. Thank you, Sebastian, for this first impression.
Michael, thank you.
For us, the program continues with more exciting topics that will take us into the future. Let's move straight on to the next security hack here on the C-Days stage. The hack I'd like to tell you about now is, oh, I've got another call coming in. Just a moment, I have to take it.
[Foreign language]
Who can we actually trust? Certainly not a video conference like this, because right now there's freely available software on the internet that allows me to manipulate not only pre-recorded videos, but also live video conferences, and m anipulate my image. You don't believe me? Have a look.
Here in this software, I can now make various settings. I've prepared it a little bit and uploaded a video of myself so that the software knows what my real face looks like. I want to tell the software how I want my face to look when it's being manipulated, namely like the face of this actor, which I'll insert here again. It loads for a moment in the top corner, and now you can see a preview of how my face looks when it's been manipulated. Let's take a look at how this works in detail and what else I can do here. I can now add a train station to the background. I lower the quality a little so that even a trained eye can't find any small mistakes, and I activate the effect. Let's try it. Let's try it out right away.
Hello, it's me. I'm on my way to Berlin, but I've forgotten something really important. Could you make a bank transfer for me?
AI is making scams like this easier and easier. What's really frightening is this is not a trend that we can expect to see in five years' time. No, it's happening today, and it already has happened in the past, causing damage amounting to at least millions, if not billions. Be watchful, be suspicious, especially if it's urgent or if it's an unfamiliar situation. Always double-check using a second means of communication and never ever make any transfers just because someone tells you via video that it's particularly urgent, because that's what criminals do as well.
Resilience is obviously one of the main subjects here at the C-Days. You know that. I'm very happy that we can continue our talks now, talks with excellent partners and experts of Bechtle in the context of IT security. I would like to present our next partner here on the stage. It's the company Sophos. Two great colleagues of Sophos have joined me here on stage. Michael, you have two job titles, I've learned. You're a Technology Evangelist at Sophos and also a Manager in Sales Engineering. Nice double function.
That's correct, and I like wearing both hats.
That's a politically very correct answer, Michael. Great. You're not alone. Roman is here as well. Roman Schlenker, what do you do at Sophos?
I've been a National Sales Engineer at Sophos for over 25 years.
Wow, 25 years. How old is the company? You've got to tell us.
40 years.
You've been there for 25 of them, and you've got a cool job title. Great that you're both here. Many things are happening at Sophos. Michael, can I ask you to give us a short overview of what it is that you do?
Sophos has been around for over 40 years, and we're now protecting over 600,000 companies from cyber threats. In order to do this, we've created a platform that is used for collecting events centrally for administration, for analysis, and for response. We are protecting our customers basically along the whole attack chain. If you take a look at this fan diagram, you see this on the very left. These are technologies that we use to reduce the risk of companies to become victims of a cyber attack at all. For example, by looking whether the vulnerable services can be accessed from the internet or whether we want to offer secure remote access measures. This is something we can do. In the next part of the fan, we have the classic protection technologies, endpoint protection, firewalls, emails, the technologies that will automatically stop a threat. Today, this is no longer enough.
We also need people who operate these technologies around the clock. These are our analysts. They work in our managed detection and response service that uses not only Sophos technologies, but also the events of security solutions that already exist in the company, into which the company has already invested. Not only that, we also use events of log on systems, backup systems, and also in Microsoft 365. MDR, managed detection and response, has become very big in the past three to four years. We're proud to have over 30,000 corporate or government customers now, which makes us by far the leading vendor of MDR services in the world.
That's exciting. The platform is a wonderful concept, Michael. On the one hand, you're delivering your own services and solutions, technologies, but you're also open for the solutions of other vendors that the customers are already using. It's a nice strategy. There's something else I wanted to say that we mustn't forget. Sophos isn't just one of the most important partners of Bechtle within our security portfolio, but, and that's another important fact, you are a European security vendor. There aren't many companies of your size and global impact around. I guess that's a great message too, I think, for our customers in Europe that we have an excellent European technology vendor here on our stage today.
Roman, at the beginning of this year, you made an important acquisition, and that received a lot of coverage in the media. You acquired SecureWorks. Michael just talked about MDR, managed detection and response, within your portfolio. What effect does the acquisition have on that area as part of your strategy?
Yes, with the acquisition, we're expanding our managed services. Ultimately, this will mean that on the technology side, we also have identity detection response. We'll have the identity threat detection and reaction in the package. Beyond that, we're going to significantly expand the over 350 third-party vendor interfaces we have right now. On the services side, we're also going to see change. In addition to the penetration testing services, we will also offer security consulting. This is a service that we'll also be doing together with Bechtle. This is very important to us because we can respond to the very high and sometimes very complex requirements of enterprise customers.
A lot of things are happening. The acquisition of SecureWorks is not the end of the story. The story will continue. Many interesting things will come, I'm sure. Let's stick with MDR for a minute, managed detection and response. Michael, I'd like to know what kinds of customers or companies, organizations feel that capability is particularly crucial, and how would you describe the technological and also the strategic relevance of it for customers?
Yes, many companies need to address compliance. They have to comply with NIS2, DORA, TSEC. The cyber risk insurance companies require, just like the compliance rules, increasingly that companies use not only the latest technology, but that that technology is operated by humans 24/7. However, the biggest motivator of a company of any size is that no data leaks out, no data is stolen, and no system failure. That must be prevented by all means because a system breakdown can jeopardize the existence of a company. Typically, this is the case with ransomware. This is why managed detection and response is relevant for companies of all sizes. Very big companies may be able to afford their own SOC, their security operations center, with their own staff. For most companies, the most economical option is simply using a managed detection and response service, for example, by Sophos.
There is probably not one single use case, is there? Every SMB, every small and mid-market business has its own reality. Roman, there is probably a standard approach. Can you give us an example of how you work together with the customer using the MDR service you provide? What does it look like in practice?
As Michael just said, usually companies do have an IT department, but these are concerned with their day-to-day business. Security is treated or managed like an add-on. Most companies cannot or do not want to afford a security department because this is very, very expensive. Ultimately, what we see is that in practice, the Bechtle System Houses provide security consulting. They also take care of the onboarding of MDR services. Then, of course, there are the routine activities. The Bechtle System Houses do that too, configuring and creating and maintaining and updating the security policies. We, as Sophos, with our MDR service, are safeguarding our customers' operations by reacting to and by fending off cyber threats. That means our customers don't have to worry about cybersecurity.
To be honest, I'm always a bit shocked when I hear the reports from you, from practical work, or from my colleagues at Bechtle who say security is often treated like a secondary activity. That's a disaster when you think about possible impacts of the threats. Interruption of service, Michael just said it, is always on the horizon. That's why we're offering the services, right? Let's take a look at the future. Let's talk about that for a little bit. How would you predict the dynamics of cyber attacks in the future? What is going to happen? What attack scenarios do you see?
Over the coming years, ransomware will probably take center stage, combined with data theft. This is called double extortion. What attackers do now is first they steal data from the company, personal data, business data, development data. When the company says we're not paying a ransom because we have a data backup and we can recover the systems, the attackers say you have to pay the same sum for keeping us from exposing the data we stole from you. That will play a role. We just published our ransomware report 2025 a couple of weeks ago. I think you can still download it.
One way how attackers penetrate further into a company are supply chain attacks. All companies that need to comply with cybersecurity rules will require their suppliers to follow suit. You know, how do the attackers get in? They use unprotected remote access, either a remote work connection or a remote desktop intended for remote maintenance, for example, during COVID. This is how attackers get in, or by remote access that is not protected by multi-factor authentication. These will be the main entry gates for attackers into a company. I recommend indeed the download of the report here from our digital C-Days platforms. It has valuable information where you should perhaps focus your attention in your own organization.
How does Sophos MDR protect itself against these and other attacks?
We're watching the alerts 24 hours, 7 days a week. The message is not just from security solutions, but also the messages we receive from other connected infrastructure technologies, from M365, for example, or backup systems that tell us that there's something going on. This is the one thing: we evaluate those messages. It's very important also that we do this in a proactive way because we don't wait until somewhere an alarm is raised and then we run around like headless chickens. Oh, we've got to do something. We've got to do something. No, what we do is proactive. It happens proactively. It's important to stress here that we have a huge customer base. We have more than 30,000 customers.
When you think about the case when a vulnerability occurs somewhere, regardless of whether it's a known or unknown vulnerability, and we detect with one of our customers that that security gap is exploited, we have an indication and can say, oh, there's something going on in that customer system. We can apply that to all other 30,000 customers and check whether one of these customers is susceptible here. That gives us the confidence to say that nothing will happen because we've investigated the situation. We can stop the thing proactively. This is very important for customers because we are protecting their business.
Here again, we have the advantage of a platform, the sharing of knowledge, which has big advantages for all parties. I have to ask you to be brief, Michael, but we have an elephant in this room, any room, in fact, where we're talking about IT and technology. It's always AI for you and for us here. What role does AI play in the attack and especially in the defense scenarios?
Yes, attackers have used AI for some time, for example, to write perfect phishing mails where there are no spelling or grammar errors. They use AI to find vulnerabilities in application software and operating systems and also, of course, to write malicious code. The effect of AI is that we now will see a very large attack, a number of new attackers with no deep know-how. The number of cyber criminals attacking companies will rise drastically. Of course, defenders use AI too. AI is really good at scanning huge data amounts for irregularities and anomalies. That's what we do.
We use over 70 AI models, which we feed with 40 years of experience with typical tactics of malicious attackers. They pre-screen events. Before human analysts go to work, they're assessing them and they're analyzing, investigating, correlating of events, and then their response. AI will not replace human analysts, but it will, or it is already doing that. It will boost their capabilities drastically. In the foreseeable future, humans will not be replaced by AI simply because with their human understanding of the processes of a business, they know exactly how to react.
Thanks, Michael, for shedding some light on the subject. It's very important and it's a very valuable contribution. We're approaching the end of our conversation here with Sophos. Thanks again for coming. Roman, can you perhaps give us some last words? Where are we heading?
We're heading towards a future where it's key for organizations to be prepared for the future and resilient. Companies simply must use modern protective technologies that are state-of-the-art. This means, for example, an XDR ecosystem. Such an XDR ecosystem must be able to connect to other infrastructure technologies based on AI to extract information from that connection and to react. That's not all. We also need human specialists who are able to operate the technology and who know what should be done and also know how to react quickly. Ultimately, it is that combination that will help the customer concentrate on their core activities and be protected against threats.
Wonderful. Thank you very much. Thanks to Sophos for the strong partnership. Thanks to Michael and Roman for coming, for joining us here on the C-Days stage. We'll continue in our program now, and I hope we'll all have a safe rest of the day.
M erlin. Hello. Nice to see you here in the C-Days elevator. Would you like to take a ride?
Yes, of course.
Okay, let's do it. Now we're stuck in this thing. Not very convenient for me right now.
Don't worry. The emergency power should kick in in a few seconds.
Let's hope so. Berlin, what we are experiencing right now, could this be part of a cyber attack?
Yes, that could indeed be the case. We are seeing it more and more that cyber criminals are paralyzing entire companies with ransomware attacks. For instance, even a device like this can get stuck.
Okay, but for that to happen, the cyber criminals would first have to get their hands on the control data for such systems. Where do they get that?
Such access data or all kinds of access data can often be found on the darknet because other criminals have stolen the data and are now offering it for sale on the darknet to other criminals.
Okay, to get hold of such data specifically, how does that work? How is that data made available so that it can be sold on the darknet?
I've prepared something and we can take a look at it and I will show you how cyber criminals might steal data. They like to use so-called infostealer malware, as you can see here in a moment. Cyber criminals copy this capture or Google reCAPTCHA design, as you can see here. With this design, I would now have to send pictures with either traffic lights or bicycles and the criminals have modified it and I'm supposed to copy a challenge to the clipboard and paste it into the ancient Windows Run dialog box and paste it using Ctrl V. I would have to go to the trouble of scrolling lightly to the left to see that I'm not just confirming some challenge, but I'm executing PowerShell code. That's how I basically infect my own computer with malware. This, in turn, allows the criminal to capture the access data.
Okay, damn simple, which is probably why it's so damn successful. As a company, do I have a chance to protect myself against something like this?
Yes, against something like this, you can get protected by regularly checking out the darknet, for example. Is there any stolen access data or other data about your company that's being offered either for sale or even published for free?
You have to help me out there. Regularly checking the darknet isn't that easy, but knowing you, I'm sure you have an idea. Is there a tool to do this?
Yes, Bechtle has developed a darknet scan and we can take a closer look at this right now. Our darknet scan actually scans well-known forums and marketplaces on the darknet. If we find any stolen access data, for example, from one of our customers, we proactively inform the customer so that they can change passwords or, if necessary, even block an account before criminals log in and cause major damage.
Very cool, very useful. I would say we've now arrived at our destination with our elevator. We'll get out here and you can take a closer look at the darknet scan. I'm here with Dirk Müller-Niessner, the CTO at Bechtle, for our next executive interview. Welcome, Dirk.
Welcome.
It's great to have you here again. Joining us from remote in a second is Gordon Thompson, the new recently appointed EMEA President at Cisco. This is really special, ladies and gentlemen, because Gordon has been incredibly supportive of the partnership between the two companies. This collaboration is so important for both. Bechtle and Cisco have a partnership spanning at least 25 years, with Bechtle achieving its first gold partnership status in 2005, even. Over time, this connection only strengthened. Bechtle today holds numerous Cisco framework agreements in Germany and Europe for joint public and enterprise customers and serves in total more than 2,900 customers with Cisco solutions. Gordon is obviously already with us, listening to us, and now we can even see him. Welcome, Gordon Thompson, to the C-Days stage.
Hello, Gordon, and welcome to C-Days stage.
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be joining all of you today. I'm disappointed I can't be with you in person, but it's great to be joining you virtually.
Wonderful. Gordon, do you like what you heard about the partnership?
The partnership is a well-trodden partnership of many, many years of success between both of our organizations. I'm sure with the foundation that we have together as partners, it's only going to go from strength to strength in the future. It's a great partnership.
Wonderful. Thank you. Gentlemen, it's great to have both of you with us today here on the stage. We are speaking to a large and diverse audience from private and public organizations from all over Europe. If you had just one piece of advice for European businesses hoping to future-proof their IT, what would you say with all this partnership experience in mind, Gordon?
I think the first thing to say is what I think everyone would expect me to say: embrace AI. The use of data and our ability to use data moving forward is the game changer for all organizations, and especially in the IT organization. We're all looking for ways to streamline costs. We're all looking for ways to automate and move faster. We're all looking for ways to be able to improve both the employee experience and indeed our customer experiences. That starts with data and how we're going to use data moving forward. The way we're going to use data far more effectively is through the use and utilization of AI.
From our point of Cisco, we're very focused in terms of how we're going to help our customers monetize data and the use of AI moving forward. I think my answer to your question is embrace AI and don't wait. Embrace it now.
Okay. Dirk, your advice?
My clear advice: don't wait. The pace of digital transformation, security threats, and AI innovation will only accelerate. The best thing you can do for your organization is to move now, modernize your IT infrastructure, proactively embrace new technologies, and turn disruption into opportunity. Every day you postpone is a missed chance to build resilience and stay ahead. Take a bold step, drive change, and shape your digital future with confidence.
Okay. Gentlemen, don't wait. Do it now. Gordon, there is one particular topic that leaders across Europe are talking about now more than ever, and this is certainly digital sovereignty. European companies and organizations want to continue driving innovation while also protecting their data. How does Cisco approach this topic with customers?
This is a topic we're very focused on as an organization. We already realize when I talk about the importance of data moving forward, we also recognize the importance of securely managing that data and making sure that data stays within the boundaries that you want it to stay within. We're certainly seeing across Europe a move back towards on-prem devices being deployed in data centers and organizations carefully thinking about how much data sits in public cloud compared to how much data sits in private and on-prem. We are very focused on making sure we can find the right balance for our customers between giving them the control that they desire in terms of the data, but also giving them the flexibility and the agility that cloud can deliver.
We're working hard with our customers and our partners like Bechtle to make sure we find the right balance as we move forward. We do recognize the importance of sovereignty and how customers are going to use that, especially in critical national infrastructure moving forward. We're very focused to make sure we provide and support the needs of our customers moving forward too.
Okay. Dirk, what is your take, what is Bechtle's take about this important topic?
At Bechtle, we see ourselves as a trusted enabler, helping our customers bridge the gap between global innovation and the specific requirements of European digital sovereignty. Our partnership with Cisco exemplifies this. Together, we combine world-class technology with deep local expertise to deliver solutions that are not just cutting-edge, but also compliant and customer-centric. We play a crucial bridging role, making global possibilities accessible while keeping autonomy, security, and compliance at the forefront. For us, digital sovereignty is more than just a technical issue. It's a holistic challenge that means not just infrastructure, but also operational independence or future agility. Our vendor-neutral, customer-first approach ensures that every solution is tailored to maximize freedom of choice and resilience. The successes we've seen with Cisco show what's possible when true partnership amplifies shared values and drives to empower European organizations for the long term.
Okay. Gordon, one more question to you. Both of you, gentlemen, you spoke about the meaning and vitality of the partnership. Can you share, Gordon, a recent project or initiative where this joint approach made a big difference for a European customer?
Yeah, look, I think there's many. We're successful every day together in terms of our joint approach and showing up as one team as we approach our customers to solve those business challenges and outcomes that our customers are looking to solve for. One springs to mind is around Capri Sun. We had a customer who had a very fragmented infrastructure, costing them money, slow to drive change, was having an impact in terms of their availability as well. Together, both our organizations came together to present a clear vision to the customer of the future in terms of what digital transformation would look like. Not just digital transformation, secure digital transformation in terms of what that would look like, in terms of how we can build that outcome for the customer. It was great to see the customer embrace what our teams put forward.
We were seen together as that trusted advisor for the customer in terms of how we drive that change. The thing that plays close to my heart as well is how the customer consumed that technology from both of our organizations. They used a buying program to do it. We call them enterprise agreements, but they used a buying program to deliver that. That is the way to deliver ultimate flexibility to our customers in the future, in a world where they're thinking about how technology may change faster and faster than it's ever done before. Perhaps the technology they deploy today might not be the technology they need in five years' time. You have to find the right flexible models to allow your customers to evolve. Together, we provided an enterprise agreement to the customer.
When we drive transformation and when we give customers the flexibility and when we embed security into those solutions with our customers, that's the thing I think that warms my heart the most in terms of our ability that really helped customers drive to a new place and deliver great outcomes.
Thank you, Gordon, for mentioning Capri Sun. This is a great case. I learned about it. For all of us having or having had smaller children, we know how outstandingly important that product is to the freedom in each and every family. It's good that we made them a little bit more secure with all their operations. Gordon, you now lead Cisco's operations across EMEA. What are the new ideas and initiatives from Cisco that could really shake things up a little bit for our joint customers?
I think probably three things I'll cover off, if that's OK. The first is really about how we embrace AI within our own organization, both in terms of engineering and the products we bring to market. For example, at Cisco Live a couple of months ago in San Diego, we launched a product called AI Canvas. AI Canvas is solving the challenge of customers having multiple different management tools that don't speak together intelligently and help the customer solve problems both reactively and proactively. AI Canvas is the tool that now helps our customers in that area. You're going to see many, many more tools. This isn't just an AI assistant, of which we are launching across all of our individual products. This is a game-changing product that is going to allow customers to automate and troubleshoot in ways that they've never been able to do before.
I think the use of AI and our ability to embrace AI more than anything else is one thing that I think will help drive transformation in our market. The second is around talent. From our point of view, Cisco has to help the European customer base and all of the markets make sure that we have the right talent in place to support the needs of businesses moving forward. With Cisco Networking Academies and our focus around AI in Cisco Networking Academies, we're making sure that young, diverse talent coming out of school and university is equipped and prepared to go into all of our customers to provide that support they need as they move forward. Finally, one thing that's maybe more at the back end that our customers don't see to the same extent is we're changing our partner programs in Cisco fundamentally.
For the first time, probably in 30 years, we're changing our partner programs. That's the way we support our partners to take solutions to market. It's called 360 as a program. That program is really there to help make sure that our customers can adopt our technologies as effectively as possible. We know in many instances that customers buy technologies and probably don't adopt every capability in those technologies. Candidly, that's not going to be acceptable in this new world. They need to be able to take advantage of every tool. It's important that we work closely with our partners to make sure that our customers can adopt every feature and capability that they want to. You will see an evolution of our partner programs really focused on helping our customers adopt moving forward, not just buy our technology moving forward as well.
That is three areas: the use of AI in our products to drive change, how we're going to invest in talent to move and help the broader economy be ready to take advantage of the AI opportunity, and thirdly, how we're going to support our partners to better support our customers as we move forward as well in this new world.
I assume these are really important changes and innovations that Cisco is bringing to market to make the customers, our joint customers, even more successful. What is your take on that, Dirk? What can we do together to make this success of our customers even bigger?
What's crucial right now is active collaboration and courage to embrace change. We need to bring customers, partners, and our teams together, share knowledge, leverage global innovation, and adapt it precisely to European needs. Success starts with understanding each customer's unique challenges and then move quickly. Modernize infrastructures, prioritization, security, and putting digital sovereignty at the core. The best result comes when we challenge each other to think differently and act boldly so our customers can seize opportunities, not just keep up, but really lead in their sectors. Now is the time to make transformation tangible and sustainable.
Both guys, you spoke about moving quickly. I have to tell you that us here on stage, we also have to move quickly. Time is flying. We need to come to the end of the conversation. I'm asking you to join me for a little exercise. If you could challenge European decision makers to rethink one aspect of their IT or business strategy, what would you ask them to reconsider and why, Dirk?
My challenge to European leaders: rethink how you drive transformation. Even as a CTO, I can say it's not just all about technology. It's about building a culture of trust, shared learning, and true commitment with your teams. Success starts when leaders empower their people, encourage curiosity, and foster open dialogue across departments and with partners. Real progress comes from collaboration, not command. Focus on nurturing resilience and adaptability, both within your organizations and beyond, and the rest will follow.
Gordon, your take on that?
Yeah, I would follow that. I think the points that Dirk made are spot on. I would also take it a level higher to think about really the EU in terms of how we drive out regulation in this world, because that has to evolve. That has to change as well. We're very focused, I think, on the rights of the citizen across the board, which are absolutely something we need to focus on. We cannot allow that to be the sole focus of regulation and decision making. We have to embrace the ability for organizations to consume and use technology far more easily and effectively than they can today. Candidly, in some places, it's difficult to innovate. It's difficult to drive out transformation. From a regulation point of view, we have to make that easier. We talk about moving faster. We talk about the need to capture the opportunity.
Sometimes we're stifled by regulation. Regulation has to evolve at the pace of digital transformation. Perhaps that's something that's not quite happening at the moment.
Thank you. Thank you to both of you for sharing these inspiring and candid perspectives on these important trends that we are all facing here on the continent. Thank you, gentlemen. Before I let you go, Gordon, I have to ask you one surprise question. The question to you is, Gordon, are you also ready to take our Born Ready challenge here on the C-DAY stage?
I think I'm born ready. Let's go.
You're born ready. That makes you a perfect guest here to our stage. Let's go on with the challenge. Gentlemen, thank you, Dirk. We need your help, Dirk, for running the challenge. The challenge is quite easy. When you count down to three, Gordon, Dirk will push the button. We'll come up with one surprise question to you. Let's see what the slot machine here brings, which question for you. Then we can start the challenge, if you wish.
OK, Dirk, I need you to be kind to me with the question. Let's count down. Three, two, one.
Let's see. Oh, here we are. It is, Gordon, it is the what-if question. What is the what-if question? I tell you. I tell you, Gordon. Gordon, you are nearly 30 years at Cisco, and this is truly remarkable in our fast-changing tech world, obviously. Looking back at the very beginning of your career, was there ever a moment, Gordon, when you considered a completely different path, perhaps even outside the technology sector? If so, what do you think would have been your what-if story, Gordon?
OK, look, I'm very passionate about my career at Cisco. Being in the technology sector for nearly 40 years, it's been a fantastic experience. My lifelong ambition when I was younger was to be a professional golfer. I was very close to becoming a professional golfer. You know, my what-if story would have been if I had become a professional golfer. I would have hoped to win many a championship. I would have hoped to now be the Ryder Cup captain, just about to captain Europe as they go to New York at the end of September to try and retain the Ryder Cup. That would have been my what-if story. That would have made my life complete, certainly, if I hadn't been in the technology sector.
I think it's great for the technology sector that you have made that turn. You're obviously missed in the golf world, I assume. This must make me asking you an additional question, Gordon. What's your handicap?
Oh, my handicap nowadays is 3. When I was younger, I had a plus handicap of +1. Nowadays, as an old man, I'm managing to hang in there with a handicap of 3.
Three sounds not too bad to me, by the way. A big hand for you, Gordon. Thank you very much for joining us on stage here and taking the challenge as well. Again, both of you, gentlemen, thank you very much for being here. For all of us, we are continuing with the program. Thank you very much. Now, we are approaching one of the themes here at C-Days that excites me the most. This is the theme of product lifecycle management, or PLM. Why? Because PLM is so obviously interwoven with the three main topics that we address with C-Days: resilience, innovation, and productivity. In fact, to me, PLM is a significant portion of the backbone of resilience. Modern PLM solutions enable companies to minimize their risk. They can respond more flexibly to market changes and make supply chains more transparent.
Aren't those key prerequisites to become a resilient player in global competition? If you combine PLM with innovative technologies, just like CPQE and product configurators, facets of PLM that we'll learn more about in this session, then this gives you the ability to accelerate new product development, promote collaboration throughout the entire process, and ultimately shorten time to market. This is what drives innovation. Shouldn't a gain in productivity be the outcome of each and every digitalization? Digital PLM platforms bundle today all the relevant data, and process data, and product data, and eliminate the silos and increase efficiency and productivity throughout the entire value chain. In a few words, PLM belongs to the heart of C-Days. With this, I'm very happy to welcome here on our stage again our EVP, our Executive Vice President for PLM Manufacturing and Engineering, Mr. Uwe Burk. Uwe, come to us, please. Hi, Uwe.
Thank you very much, Michael. Welcome to the audience.
Great pleasure having you again here on our stage. Uwe, how we look at PLM today is so different from what it was only a few years ago. It changes so fast. Can you give us an update from your perspective?
Indeed, it looks different already. The industry is still in a significant transformation. PLM has to provide all the data and processes to bring digital twins to life. This has consequences for the way PLM is being delivered, implemented, and used. We can see a strong shift into SaaS-based cloud solutions and the integration of AI into PLM technologies. In line with this transformation, Bechtle PLM's strategy is focused on customer value. After optimizing the structure of our PLM entities, we have been adding a significant number of value offerings, which have been building on synergies across our PLM and other Bechtle organizations.
This sounds really promising, Uwe, for our customers in the PLM field. Can you give us some examples for these value offerings?
Of course. Offerings like our Elite service, for example, extend the standard service along with other add-ons by the world's leading CAD/CAM training and certification platform. For the benefit of our customers, Bechtle PLM has been localizing the content and is exclusively offering the service across Europe. Our new Bechtle PLM Process Hub technology is connecting online-based PLM platforms with traditional or online-based ERP systems. We also have been experiencing strong demand for the automation of design tasks. Shortage of workers and the competitive challenge of increasing speed, efficiency, and quality at the same time are putting a lot of pressure on our customers. We have been addressing these issues in strongly developing our successful competence center for design automation and CPQE. In October last year, we have been deciding to integrate the world's leading SolidWorks-related CPQE company into the Bechtle PLM Engineering and Manufacturing division.
To give you a little bit more insight in how this offers great additional value to our customers, I have been asking one of the Managing Directors to join us for this session. Welcome to stage, Mark Sarkar from DriveWorks.
Thank you, Uwe.
Hello, Mark. It's great to have you here on stage. I know that DriveWorks and Bechtle PLM are teaming up right now. We are excited to learn more. I would say it's your stage now, Mark.
Thank you.
Go ahead.
Thanks, both of you. Yes, thank you. We're very excited to be part of the Bechtle organization. We joined Bechtle back in October of last year. What I want to talk to you about is design automation and CPQ. You probably don't know who we are at DriveWorks. We're a software company that was founded in 2001, and we've been automating SolidWorks for the last 24 years. We have customers all over the world in over 50 countries. There are two sides to the business. The first side is design automation, and you can automatically generate CAD, or computer-aided design and manufacturing documents, for custom products. It allows sales users and engineers to generate CAD files automatically based on customer requirements. The other side of the business is CPQ, which stands for Configure Price Quote. It's a software solution that helps businesses of all sizes streamline their sales processes.
It enables users to configure customized products and services and determines accurate pricing. The quote part automatically generates accurate quotes and manufacturing data, including the CAD models, drawings, and bill of materials. It ties all of this together. There are some challenges that companies face selling custom products. You can see some of our customers on screen with the videos that span across many different industries. Some challenges that they face are managing approvals and monitoring order progress, which is time-consuming. Preparing quotes and technical documentation manually can be slow and error-prone. Calculating pricing and discounts is complex and impacted by a wide range of factors. Salespeople must have strong product knowledge to confidently and accurately configure products that meet customer requirements. How does DriveWorks help with these challenges? There are many different ways that our software has been beneficial for companies all over the world.
Using DriveWorks CPQ as part of PLM closes the gap between product development and engineering and the sales. It allows companies to design more quickly, communicate better, and streamline the design-to-manufacture process. It also automates key aspects of the sales process, reducing bottlenecks and improving efficiency. DriveWorks is a rules-based system, which is really at the heart of everything that we do. That's very important for companies to know because it ensures that anything that an individual is configuring on a web-based configurator with DriveWorks is a valid configuration. It reduces errors, and it ensures that the salespeople aren't offering products that can't actually be configured. It also ensures that products meet quality standards. It's also very important for so many companies to be able to integrate with third-party systems, whether or not that's CRM, ERP, or any other system.
DriveWorks has very strong integration capabilities that allow companies to have one source of truth and integrate DriveWorks with everything else within their business. With DriveWorks, it's also possible to customize and automate the workflow. There could be approval processes in place for a level of discount that a company is authorized to have, or a certain distributor can have a certain level of discount. This can all be inputted, again, using rules within the DriveWorks system. DriveWorks can also help reduce the lead times for customers. Quotes, pricing, and manufacturing data become created very, very quickly. With DriveWorks, it's possible to have a 3D visualization of your product in a browser. Your customers can interact with a 3D model within your online configurator. Salespeople and customers can configure these all over the world on any device.
I just want to talk about a company, a specific company now called Knapheide. Knapheide are a truck and trailer body manufacturer in the U.S., and they've been going for over 175 years. They have very configurable products. If you're on any highway in the U.S., you'll probably see Knapheide trucks and trailers. They have hundreds of models, but thousands of product options. What they found was the engineers were spending a lot of time doing very mundane tasks. They're creating the same but different drawings, the same parts, assemblies. Through the use of DriveWorks, they were able to automate this, and they've automated tens of thousands of parts, assemblies, and drawings. It's really reduced the repetitive tasks that they're doing and allowed the engineers to focus on innovation.
It's allowed them to innovate their products much more due to the time savings that they've achieved through the use of DriveWorks. They've seen that their projects can be completed with 31% less labor time required. The DriveWorks operation runs 24/7. Engineers, as I said, have the ability to innovate more and continuously improve their products. I want to talk about another customer called Extronics. These guys are multinational, and they are part of a large group covering most of Europe. They specialize in developing and manufacturing equipment for use in hazardous areas. They'd seen an increase in the demand for wireless products, and they were receiving more and more inquiries for custom devices. For each request, a member of their technical sales team would need to review the device before they were even able to quote.
Extronics started using DriveWorks to reduce lead times and help them meet increasing demand. Some of the benefits that they've had from DriveWorks are consistent outputs used by all of their teams, ensuring the customer gets exactly what they need. They've got a complex assessment process reduced from days to a matter of minutes. They've also integrated with their ERP system, enabling their sales team to generate accurate quotes automatically. Finally, I want to mention a company called BKW. This is a company based in Manchester in the UK, very close to our offices in the northwest of England, where we're headquartered. They supply pressure level and flow valves and analytical instrumentation solutions and services across a wide range of industries in the UK. They've not actually touched anything with CAD with DriveWorks. They're purely using DriveWorks as a CPQ, an online configurator.
They implemented a DriveWorks solution to speed up their design, quote, and dispatch processes. All their internal team members at BKW use DriveWorks, and they've automated process for logging orders, creating quotes, and sending automatic invoices. You can see on screen some of the benefits that they've achieved through the use of DriveWorks. Their stock items can be shipped within 24 hours and be automatically reordered. Hopefully, that's given you a bit of an indication into what DriveWorks can do. I think it's really important to know that DriveWorks can be applied to any product, any industry, as long as it's a configurable product. I'd like to thank you for inviting me to present on this C-Days. Welcome Michael back onto stage.
Thank you very much, Mark. Very impressive presentation. Thank you for being here. Great start at C-Days for you. Wonderful. If our customers want to find out more about the solution, where can they go? What can they do?
There are two websites. One is just our corporate website, where you can find out some general company product information. There is another site as well, which is driveworkslive.com. That allows anyone to have a look at what can be achieved with the software. You can configure custom products in a browser. They're all demos. If you hit order, don't worry. You're not actually ordering a conveyor or a cupboard or the different examples that we have on there. You'll see a custom quotation document, a bill of materials, and lots of other automatically generated material that's available on driveworkslive.com.
Wonderful. Great. Thank you very much. Everyone out there, go to the website. Try it out. For all of us, we are moving on with our program. Thank you.
Thank you.
It's time for a road trip. A virtual road trip, of course. We're not going away. A road trip is a tour to discover new things. That's what we want to do. It's exciting to explore new worlds. In our case, we're exploring the merging of two worlds, two technologies that we used to see traditionally as separate. Today, these technologies work hand in hand, and they produce new benefits. Our road trip leads us into the world of AIoT. You can tell there's a lot in that, even looking at the acronym. AI is in it. IoT is in it. OT is in it too. The point is that these technologies work together to create new solutions. They work together to create new answers to challenges of companies in very different and diverse ways.
I hope you're looking forward to discussing these together with us. From this stage, we will visit partners, customers, users who will give us practical insights into their world. We're going to start on a bit of a theoretical note to give you a bit of background for understanding what we're going to hear. To create something new like this, it takes strong leaders who take the lead of the movement, who say, I'll bring these things together now. The guy who's doing just that at Bechtle AIoT is Stefan Schweiger. Many of you know him. He's been a regular guest here on our C-Days stage. Welcome, Stefan. It's great to have you again.
Hello, Michael.
Stefan, great. You're going to talk about AIoT. You're a Business Manager for AIoT Solutions at Bechtle, quite a mouthful. You're driving the topic for the whole group. You're looking back on over 10 years of experience in the IoT world, and you bring that together into the IT world. Very exciting. You're going to be our guide for this virtual road trip, Stefan. Your trip, your stage. You take over the steering wheel, and I'll enjoy the ride.
Sure. Buckle up. AIoT is relatively new to us, just like the term is new. Most customers know us, of course, in the context of the classic IT business: data centers, clients, modern workplace, security and networks, that kind of stuff. What we're also seeing, and that's pretty clear, things are changing for our customers, also in the OT world, the operation technology world. Suddenly, everybody's talking about another buzzword: smartfication. Everything's becoming smarter, no matter whether we're talking about buildings, machinery, plants, or other applications. We keep hearing terms like smart city, smart venue, smart hospital. Everything's being smart-ified. What for, actually? People want more data. Data is important, even in the OT world, when I want to optimize things.
When do I optimize things? If I want to respond to challenges, challenges that our customers have right now, be it a shortage of skilled labor, crises, cost pressure, process optimization, and other issues. These are challenges that are coming towards our customers. That's why things are becoming smarter. Smarter also means that more IT enters into the world of OT. For a company like Bechtle, this is a field where we would like to give our customers assistance. In the OT world, we're talking about cloud platforms, edge computing, the IoT, and of course, AI. That's logical. Also about robotics, OT networks, and OT security. For us, and that is also new and probably new to many IT specialists, suddenly, these subjects are not driven from IT, but from business, because business has challenges. Suddenly, we're talking to different contact people. We're no longer talking about products.
We're talking about solutions. In the end, we have a business case that has to pay off. For us and for our customers, the classic IT people, this is a new challenge. It's a challenge we're willing to take on. Just to give you a figure, we've now completed over 140 projects in that space. When you look further, what is needed to build a solution? First of all, you need data. Data has to be generated or collected and transmitted. Suddenly, it's not just the LAN or Wi-Fi, but new technologies are coming, network technologies such as UWB, LoRa, 5G, BLE, RFID. We're talking about new network standards. Take the example of LoRa that's been around for something like 10 years. First, we need to understand how that works, how you build up a network, how you set them up, and how you keep them running.
Once you have networks, you transmit data. The data transmitted needs to be stored. This brings us to the question of cloud, hybrid, on-premise. In other words, where is the data stored? Once I've stored the data, I need to provide access to it. For that, I need applications and platforms. Today, we're going to hear about a platform vendor we have a pretty close collaboration with. Something else we're seeing more and more is the connection of individual platforms. I need to be able to make the platforms talk to each other. Not to forget, I need a service to back all that up. The operation needs to be kept up. You have to operate the system. This is a classic IT service or IoT service task. In the end, it all has to be protected and scalable. There is the term AIoT. This is pretty straightforward, really.
IoT, that's like the senses. You can see, hear, or feel. You can store data and, of course, put an AI on top of it. This can be either GenAI, talk to your data, or Agentic AI, which will automatically run tasks, processes, and workflows. In that way, it can optimize things. To explain what we do as Bechtle, we do everything except platforms. We provide consulting. We set up networks. We deliver hardware. All that is the classic business of Bechtle. We also provide services for financing, logistics—not to be underestimated, by the way—and also IoT, up-to-IoT services, because sometimes that is too much to handle for our customers, especially with large installations. Here, we can provide solutions as a specialist in IT.
We can really help there. I am now taking you to the first stop of our voyage through the IoT. As with any IoT or IT project, everything starts with security. I'm happy to welcome here today Christian Kielmann of Gapfruit AG. He will speak about OT security, and specifically, the Bechtle Secure Edge Gateway. Christian, you have the floor.
Thank you, Stefan. My name is Christian Kielmann of Gapfruit. We offer a highly secure and robust operating system, particularly for gateways and the use in critical OT infrastructures. Together with Bechtle, we have developed two versions of the so-called Bechtle Secure Edge Gateways. I would like to present them today. Let me start with the Industrial Edge Gateway. Its main area of application is production, where you can connect your machine or robot directly with the cloud via such a gateway. You do that to perform condition monitoring, service, or remote control. The other version is the LoRaWAN Gateway.
Its special aspect is that the communication between the sensors and actors and the gateway happens via radio. The coverage, the radio area, is very large. These gateways are particularly suitable for use in industrial parks, building automation, or in cities. Both gateways have one thing in common. They create a connection from the machine to the cloud. You don't need the classic IT infrastructure anymore. This means, however, that such gateways are connected directly to the internet. We need to fulfill the highest standards of cybersecurity, but also with regard to reliable and long-term maintainability of such gateways. This is exactly where Gapfruit comes into the game. In my presentation, I would like to focus on three aspects: cybersecurity, robustness, and maintainability of such gateways. Let's start with cybersecurity.
Starting in 2027, the Cyber Resilience Act requires that all companies be able to demonstrate that they take appropriate measures to secure such gateways. This is exactly the sweet spot of the Bechtle Secure Edge Gateway. Conceptually, we apply the principle of zero trust. This means that we presume that the internet is evil and should never be trusted. How can you implement zero trust principles today? Microsoft Research has published a paper that is called The Seven Properties of Highly Secure Devices. Gapfruit OS is currently the only operating system on the market that can claim to possess those seven properties in an operating system. What does this mean in practical terms? It means that the attack surface of such a gateway is reduced by more than 99%. It means that today's reactive security can be transformed into a proactive cybersecurity.
Ultimately, that means that even if an attacker attacks such a gateway, exploiting vulnerabilities, they can never gain control over such a gateway, or if push comes to shove, the downstream infrastructure. In addition to that, the identity of such a gateway and the integrity of the operating system, the application, and the data are cryptographically secured based on a TPM and a public key infrastructure. This means that you can be sure at any time that your device, your data is free of any kind of manipulation. Let's move on to robustness. Gateways are usually mounted in places where they're difficult to access, for example, inside an industrial equipment piece, on the ceiling of a hall, or outside. It's not easy for an engineer simply to restart such a gateway. Gapfruit offers self-healing properties here.
This means the device will automatically detect a problem or malfunction of a driver and fix it automatically. The most important aspect is that critical applications will never be affected, and production is never impaired in any way. Let's move on to maintainability. Usually, such gateways are rolled out in large numbers. There are two challenges for the commissioning and the long-term operation. A challenge in the sense that operations often require costly manual interaction. Gapfruit offers an integrated device lifecycle management. This means that updates for the operating system or for applications can be installed over the air without downtimes. The best thing is, it can be done without any kind of manual interaction over a runtime of more than 10 years. Finally, I'd like to say that the Bechtle Secure Edge Gateway is not just a secure gateway.
It is a scalable, future-proof, and CRA-compliant solution that paves the way for an efficient and sustainable smartfication. Thank you very much indeed.
Right, we're moving on in our journey. Our next topic is platforms, cloud-based platforms. As I said at the beginning, at Bechtle, we do anything except platforms. For platforms, we have strong partners, partners who have been on the market for a long time. We team up with them to tackle projects also in the enterprise space. I'm happy and honored to welcome Ramona Kraus. Ramona is CEO of the company infsoft. Hi, Ramona. Can I ask you to say a little bit about infsoft, your company, but also maybe you could tell us a little bit about a current project so that our audience understands how much of this technology is already being used by our customers? Ramona, you have the floor.
Thank you, Stefan. Thank you for having me today. I'd be happy to talk a little bit about infsoft, what we do, how that is connected to Bechtle with our partner program. infsoft is a 30-staff software development company from the Ingolstadt region. We've been on the market for about 20 years. We were founded in 2005. The focus of our work was location tracking, localization. We still do that up to the present day. Our central IoT platform is called LocAware. That stands for location awareness, which is the field where it started. Over the years and through the collaboration with our customers, it now covers many more classic IoT use cases. The collaboration with Bechtle is really very useful for us because we can concentrate on our own development work. We want to keep evolving our platform. Generally, we want to keep it scalable.
Bechtle's job is really to implement the use cases. A joint customer of ours once said, "You're really not a platform operator. You're use case engineers. This means that together with our customers, we look where the challenges are, what the issues are, the problems that need to be solved. We decide, based on the hardware that is sensor information, the platform as such, what solution we'll use, what customizing we need. Do we need a front-end app? What interfaces do we need? What data models? All that is Bechtle's job. At the same time, our platform offers very flexible configuration options intrinsically. This means even with very highly customized use cases, we don't need a developer as a resource until very late in the process. Bechtle can really implement customized use cases completely independently without needing a developer or having to modify code.
Nevertheless, although we have so many customized use cases, we have some standard use cases too in our portfolio. These include, for example, the capacity utilization area. We're very strong in space use and optimization. That is, we support space managers in running analyses, how the spaces are utilized based on sensor information, but also combined with user behavior. We have a front-end application, which is called LocAware One. Here, people can book, for example, workplaces or meeting rooms. That information is reconciled with the actual use on the site. You can see not only a room's occupancy in percent, but also how many times someone booked a room and no one came, the so-called no-show rate. We have many other use cases too. I don't want to describe all of them. There's one I'd like to mention here in more detail: room signage. We use mainly electronic ink technology.
I've brought you an e-ink panel here. They're just like e-readers. This kind of display consumes very little energy. This means it can be battery operated. You can really just slap these things on the wall or into the magnetic holder that comes with the product. This is an example of a meeting room display that's also very popular, especially in new buildings because here you can save a lot of cabling, right? If I wanted to use a high-end display, for example, as a meeting room sign, then I would, of course, need cable. One example of what this looks like in a customer project is ABB. We built a Mannheim at their Mannheim site, a very large implementation. We've worked together with ABB at several locations. At their Mannheim site, we were involved in a new construction project.
Here, we could take into consideration all IoT use cases from the start and then create a pleasant and modern work environment for the employees. This is basically seen through the eyes of an employee here. In other words, what are the functions that I gain? I can book desks. They have an activity-based model without permanently assigned desks. In the morning or the day before, you pick a workplace, you book it for a day or half a day. The sensor information on the site tells the system whether a colleague has actually shown up. If not, the reservation of the workplaces is canceled. This is a great help for optimizing the use of spaces. You can also book lockers because if you don't have a permanent desk or workplace, you may want to put your personal things in a safe place.
For this, we use e-ink panels, small panels, which say who is using a locker on a given day. The map is actually our central point, especially in the front-end application. It gives me an overview of all points of interest. I can look at what's cooking for lunch. I can see how many people are in the cafeteria right now, when the crowded times are. I can also implement visitor management. I can register visitors here, for example. I can also give information on local public transport. For example, when does the next bus leave? Where is it going? For experts, obviously, who operate the platform, I can carry out analyses on capacity utilization. I can create reports, busy times, heat maps, but also occupancy controls. In other words, how do I use bases differently to optimize the use even more? Let's take a look at the technical side.
We use a BLE infrastructure as a general rule. As a gateway, you have the locator node dongle, which connects via BLE with all devices that are part of the network. We can also, of course, connect third-party products. Here, for example, we use SOBI sensors via an interface in our platform, which is used as a real-time data transmission gateway. I can also, by the way, locate all displays that are being used. In other words, not only can I send text to those displays, I can also know where they are. This makes it a kind of universal solution in the world of IoT applications.
The complexity of the installation, how many sensors are used, and each with its own use case, shows just how important it is to collaborate with a partner like Bechtle, who takes care of the on-site installation, the configuration of the sensors, but also operates the platform. We're very happy that last year we intensified that partnership. We now have a partnership contract, and we're looking forward to further cooperation and everything that will come our way in the world of IoT.
Right, after visiting IT security and platforms, let's move on to the next important topic. That is, of course, as so often, AI. AI is used not only in IT applications, but also in OT contexts. Here, AI offers ideal optimization opportunities. I would like to welcome Uwe Siegwart of Vivaldi Digital Solutions GmbH, who's going to explain how you can optimize processes in the field of OT, specifically quality assurance using AI, and how you can cut costs and improve working conditions for your employees. Over to you, Uwe.
Thank you very much, Stefan. In 2024, we presented the DemoCube. One year later, we can truly say that our joint project automating and digitalizing quality assurance using AI was a grand success. We've been able to win joint customer projects. Now, in the implementation phase, we can demonstrate convincingly that the solution is meeting with a very, very positive response. We'd like to show you this in a presentation. Turning to the next slide, this shows the situation in many companies today. Things are still manual and analog. Many testing activities are still performed by humans.
Data acquisition is analog and takes a long time. Therefore, it takes a long time also to process and analyze the data. We're talking about a manual process here with gauges and inspection tools. This is an area where you can ask, can AI not support humans in their work? To transform that into the new world, our solution at Vivaldi is designed in such a way that we have, on one side, components that support planning, the inspection, planning activities in the office. This is then given to the shop floor, where we support the actual quality assurance measures, where we can control the actual flow of materials based on the quality inspection results, which have been generated automatically. On the other hand, we can evaluate data and dashboards. We can see where defects have occurred, what they are, and where they originated in production.
This is, of course, another important point that we discovered together with Bechtle in the customer project. Automated AI-supported quality assurance is one step. When we start to supplement that AI data with further data from IoT sensors on the shop floor, we are tapping a much larger potential by optimizing OEE, overall equipment effectiveness, the efficiency within manufacturing. This is why many customers say automation is good, yes, but efficiency gains based on connected data are, of course, even better. This can be applied not only to classic quality assurance cases where you produce physical goods, but also for other use cases which may not be in a production or manufacturing environment, but to say , in logistics. The inspection activities that we automate with AI are very diverse, starting from measuring unit numbers to verifying whether the correct components were installed.
This brings us to the actual tasks, assembly tasks, whether the right display was used, or whether the right box is standing on the right conveyor. We can measure all that using AI. It doesn't matter, really, whether we're talking about porcelain, paint, metal, wood, or cement. The range of applications is very, very large. I must say, it's really true. You learn something new every day, just like AI does. Imagine that the whole thing becomes tangible. I don't mean on screens or with chatbots, but in real life, at a trade fair, we can only invite you to visit one of the Bechtle events where you can very often find the IoT DemoCube as a demonstrator to show how AI can be used. In that showcase application for plastic pedals, for bells, paint defects, or for brakes that haven't been assembled correctly.
All that embedded in an environment where the other demonstrators of Bechtle are, where we say there's a robot and there's a secure edge gateway. All these are partners that Vivaldi brought together as a strong team here to be able to say, look, we can offer you significantly more than many people think. Perhaps we should now leave the demonstrator and enter the rough world of industry, the real world. I've brought you a little video where we can show you again how the solution works in real life. When you use, for example, 36 cameras, 72 images, and 91 AI models to inspect 100% of an e-motor housing. This is what you see in the video. The component enters the equipment here. At this point, the component is uniquely identified.
This means that we know exactly the serial number, and we can later link the images and the AI inspection results with that serial number. Here, further cameras are inserted into the housing. Because we have a 100% check, we need to inspect both the inner and outer surfaces for various defects. This is how it would work in real life. If you're interested in a solution like that, how to use AI in your production environment, please get in touch with your Bechtle contact. We'll be happy to find an optimal solution for your use case.
We have now reached the end of our little journey into the world of AIoT. I hope you found it insightful. Besides our strategic direction, we also covered topics such as OT security, multi-use case platforms, and the application of AI within the OT space, particularly in manufacturing. Among our clients, we see additional use cases emerging, including blockchain, track and trace solutions, and robotics, which is increasingly gaining traction. This is naturally an important area for us, ensuring that we understand customer needs and develop tailored solutions in collaboration with the right partners.
One partner I'd like to highlight at the end is Quarero. They develop security robots, which is a very exciting concept. Their robot performs well outdoors. It is capable of carrying up to 100 kilograms, reaching speeds of 25 kilometers per hour, and operating continuously for 24 to 32 hours. It can be equipped with cameras. Drones can be mounted on it, and ultimately, it can serve as an AIoT motion device. All of this demonstrates how rapidly the world is evolving, especially in the OT domain. The push towards smartfication is accelerating strongly. At Bechtle, this is my closing message.
We are your partner, not only in the IT realm, but also in OT. We see many projects and innovations emerging, and we strive to always be the right partner for them. My final word: don't just think of us as your IT partner, but also in the OT space, because we believe we're also a valuable partner there as well. Thank you for your attention, and feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
Let me get straight to the point, ladies and gentlemen. Data centers are hot in Europe right now, and I don't mean in terms of waste heat. More and more companies are currently investing heavily in modernizing their data centers or even building new ones. Why? It's about data sovereignty and compliance with regulatory requirements. Of course, it's about multi-cloud and critical workloads. We're seeing massive growth in this market.
Investments in data centers in Europe are up 25% year on year. The energy consumption forecast is impressive, but also gives pause for thought. From 2025 to 2030, energy consumption in European data centers is predicted to grow by at least 200% to 150 TW. An impressive figure. AI is, of course, a strong driver here, but it is certainly not the only one. I am very pleased to have this opportunity to talk to two proven data center experts from Bechtle here on our C-Days stage about this development and the challenges it presents. A warm welcome to Hannes Wehr and Mirko Kulpa from Bechtle. Hello. Good morning, Hannes. Hello, Mirko. It's great to have you here. Hannes, the first question is for you. What does the dynamic growth we're seeing in the data center environment mean for businesses?
Yes, it actually means that we need additional resources with the right skills. That naturally leads to higher costs. At the same time, we have to ensure security and minimize the risk of failure.
Those are some very important points Hannes, thank you. I would like to explore this topic in more depth. I'm delighted to have the opportunity to welcome another guest to our discussion. It is always a pleasure to welcome experts to our stage who we also work with on specific projects. On that note, a very warm welcome to Klaus Kühne from Audi AG. Hello, Klaus. Welcome to our stage and good morning.
Good morning. Hello.
Great to have you here, Klaus. We're talking about the current challenges in the data center environment. This is certainly a major and important topic for you in your company and in your area of responsibility. Thank you, Klaus, for taking the time. Would you like to tell us a little bit about the data center landscape at Audi?
Yes, thank you for your question. At Audi, we have a fairly centralized approach when it comes to data centers. We have two central corporate data centers in operation at the Ingolstadt site, which supply data for the Ingolstadt and Neckarsulm plants, as well as plants outside Germany, such as Jörg or Mexico, and also provide the services hosted there. Ultimately, both data centers are among the most critical elements of Audi's IT operations.
I see. That is why the automation of workflows and processes in data centers plays such an important part. Klaus, what were the overarching business objectives and challenges that led you to make a long-term investment in data center automation?
There were several factors. First of all, we have experienced strong growth in applications in the past and continue to do so because, of course, many new service systems have been added. The market for personnel, including at our service providers, is not infinitely scalable. That's why we came up with the idea of automating as much as possible, also with regard to flexibility and speed of implementation. Requirements are increasing. We also have security requirements, new requirements such as segmentation. The automation solution can ensure these requirements in the long term. I don't see a future with the conventional solution that is manual configuration. It won't be possible to keep up with the speed.
OK, that's a clear statement. We're not talking about a nice little detail here. We're talking about the future viability of data center operations. You've already mentioned a few aspects that are important to you. Let me ask you about the strategic advantages you see in what you have already achieved, namely a significantly more centralized and, at its core, policy-based control and automation of your network infrastructure compared to what you described as conventional operating models. What are the main strategic advantages you have achieved?
What I can clearly see is that the speed of implementation has increased significantly, meaning that the requests that come in every day can be handled by non-experts too, that is the operations center. This really supports the experts in their daily work and, of course, also helps us in implementing the requests that we receive from customers every day. With that, we also see an increase in the level of care and quality, which is, of course, consistent in that the number of individual errors that may occur during manual activities are reduced.
I would say that those are substantial advantages you're talking about, Klaus. Thank you very much for sharing these insights and assessments regarding data center operations at Audi. I would like to bring my two colleagues from Bechtle, our data center experts in the studio, back into the discussion. Mirko, I have a question for you. How do you think this changeover has affected Audi? How did the transition from the classic configuration to these more complex interfaces and processes, which are now available as an SDN solution, take place? I'm sure there were some common pitfalls along the way. What were they?
This transition from a traditional network to software-defined networking was essentially a fresh start for many colleagues. The engineers had their command line taken away from them and had to start learning everything from scratch. Software-defined solutions are typically configured via web interfaces. This means you click around with the mouse and configure the network infrastructure there. This may make sense for smaller configurations and may also be manageable. In the case of the Audi data center, where we roll out thousands of servers, this can't be done via a web interface. That's why we decided, together with Audi, to implement an automation solution there that fully supports us both in the rollout of new infrastructure and in day-to-day operations.
I can imagine that it's a big step for some people. As you said, losing the command line can be painful. Thank you for explaining how significant these changes are in a way that I can understand, but also, of course, how significant the impact of these changes will be. That brings me to another question I'd like to ask you, Hannes, specifically on the topic of KPIs. With such major changes, you always want to achieve a measurable effect. What KPIs, what measurable results can you name that have actually been achieved through the introduction of the automation solution Mirko mentioned?
A good example is that configuring a server with three ports is now a matter of three instead of 30 minutes. This means that we have a significantly lower time commitment. As Klaus already mentioned, we can also have junior engineers do the whole thing. We no longer need senior engineers for these tasks. There's been a shift there.
Those are valid points, of course. I think a factor of 10 in terms of time is helpful. 10x is what we all want in this world. You've got it. That's a strong statement. What recommendations do you both have for customers, for companies facing similar challenges to Audi, such as large, highly business-critical data centers, high automation requirements, and skill shortages? What are your recommendations?
When introducing a solution like this, it's very important to identify use cases. We d on't automate for the sake of automation, but instead we try to identify the cases that happen a thousand times.
[Foreign language]
Readable network documentation to machine-readable documentation that is complete, and thus from an implicit to an explicit representation of the data.
What does that mean?
Implicit means that a great deal of knowledge about the configuration is stored in the minds of the relevant operating personnel. However, we now need this knowledge to be explicitly stored in the database for automation purposes. That means that the model must be fully mapped.
Thank you, that helps me understand.
[Foreing language]
On our C-Days stage, because after all, the C in C-Days stands for Competence. I'm grateful for you taking me along this journey. Of course, my thanks go not only to the two of you here on stage, but also to Klaus Kühne at Audi in Ingolstadt. Thank you for being here and giving us a little insight into what automation can achieve in the data center, which is such an important area of every IT organization. Thank you for being here.
AI is changing many things. Probably everything, sooner or later. Some things may never change. For example, printer problems always seem to occur when you really don't need them to. When you really need to get things done quickly, it's best to pay a visit to your colleagues in IT support. In our company, we're located on the 8 3rd floor. I'll think of how to take the lift. Oh, hello, Flo, you're in the lift. That can only mean that you have a better, a high-based solution for me, right?
Yes, I brought you the BeeMind speech and service desk agent.
The what? BeeMind speech and service desk agent? An AI agent? Sounds exciting. Let's take a closer look at it. I think we have time until we reach the 83rd floor.
The BeeMind service and speech desk agent works like this. It supports IT in solving problems and creating tickets. It makes it very easy for users to interact with this agent, using natural language. We have everything set up here, and I'd say let's create a ticket with BeeMind AI. Hello, I'm having a problem with my printer. It says the ink cartridge is empty.
In order to better assist you, I'm going to call for contact information.
My contact information is number six.
[Foreign language] I have created a ticket for your printer, but I'm curious whether the ink cartridge is actually empty or whether there is another issue. Can you check?
Stop, stop, stop, stop. Can you actually check if I really have a problem with the ink cartridge?
[Foreign language] You can take the following steps. [Foreign language] Some printers show the ink level.
I've already done everything. I've set it, checked the ink cartridge, and started the print.
[Foreign language] There might be a problem with the printer detector. Here are some steps you could try. First, update the printer driver.
It would go on like this until I either have a solution to my problem or the printer actually works or until my ticket contributes to troubleshooting. How does it all work? In the background, there's a real-time speech API based on an Azure AI setup, which helps me solve my problems in natural language. The interesting thing is that behind it are ticket tools and internal knowledge that help the AI solve my problem directly and ideally before it actually occurs. Two solutions, and I think we've made it to the 83rd floor. We don't really have to bother the colleagues from IT support.
That's the goal. Wonderful. Thank you. In the next few minutes, we'll turn our attention to something we all value most: our time. Many companies have a familiar saying you might be familiar with: "If only we knew what we know." We simply spend a lot of time searching for information. Information that is important, but hidden somewhere in the structures of our company. This is against the backdrop of increasingly complex problems that need to be solved, with knowledge that is increasingly widely distributed. It is no wonder that the lack of truly usable knowledge management in a company slows down productivity and leads to considerable costs. This is a topic we want to talk about, and I'm glad that Simon Schmidt is here from the Bechtle Competence Center, also responsible for Planet AI, among other things. Hello, Simon. Welcome.
Hello, Michael. Hello, everyone. Thank you for having me.
By the way, there are studies showing that up to 20% of the working time of employees on average is wasted for exactly that: the ineffective search for information. Can IT help here with traditional knowledge management systems?
A little, maybe. You know, in, out. With AI, probably more so if it were not for the problem that most AI systems only run in the cloud. Would you want to upload all of your organization's knowledge to the cloud? There are legitimate doubts about that. With AI that runs in your own data center, there are no headaches in terms of legal certainty, sovereignty, and costs.
That sounds much better. Let's take a closer look at this vision of the future for AI-based knowledge management with European AI, together with Simon. First question for you, Simon. We're talking about knowledge management, but is not that old news?
You could definitely say that. In fact, knowledge management has been around as long as knowledge work itself, mainly because the problem has never really been solved. It is not just persistent, it is also very costly. You already mentioned the 20%, but let's be conservative. Imagine an employee loses just 15 minutes a day searching for information. Over the course of a month, at an hourly rate of EUR 37, that already adds up to more than EUR 200. Now scale that to a company with 500 employees, and you're looking at over EUR 1 million every year. Remember, that's based on only 15 minutes a day, not 20%.
The numbers you've shared, Simon, already make it clear how explosive this issue is. I think there's another factor that takes it to an entirely new level. Let me put one key word on the table: baby boomers.
Of course, the baby boom generation and the demographic shift that comes with it does not make things any easier. As these employees retire, companies stand to lose a significant share of their workforce. Estimates suggest that around 30% of employees will leave, taking with them not only their knowledge, but also the valuable networks and contacts that are crucial for finding and sharing information.
This demographic shift is about as surprising as Christmas. Yet, it seems that many organizations are doing surprisingly little to prepare for it or to counteract the massive brain drain it brings. Why is that?
I think the explanation is fairly simple. Most people tend to put off dealing with this problem, not because they don't want to address it, but because they lack ideas on how to respond effectively.
For many companies, the challenge seems so complex and far-reaching that they struggle to see a practical way forward. Do you have an example of how it could be done?
Yes, I do. Artificial intelligence is, of course, an obvious solution in today's world. Like any tool, it needs to be applied in the right way to be truly effective. We saw this firsthand with one of our customers, a mechanical engineering company, struggling with knowledge access. The challenge wasn't limited to service technicians in Germany or other German-speaking countries, but extended worldwide: Brazil, Poland, Asia. On top of that, there was the language barrier. All these service technicians working in the field had one crucial thing in common. They each carried valuable knowledge around the company, about the company, knowledge that could be of great use to their colleagues. This is where the real challenge comes in, making this knowledge accessible through a chatbot.
We've brought a short demo to show what that could look like. You simply ask the question in natural language. You ask the system, for example, which reports are linked to a specific serial number. The system then displays the related reports that exist in this context. What's exciting about this is that with just one simple query, much like using Google, you can instantly access information from across the entire company. You don't just have to trust that it's correct. The system indicates how reliable the information is. Also, based on source references, with a single click on a hyperlink, you can even jump directly to the original source document.
I think that's really exciting because whenever we talk about applying AI in this kind of setting, the inevitable question comes up: is the AI just hallucinating? What you've just shown here makes it clear that it isn't the case, right?
Exactly right. That's always the big danger and the fear that naturally comes with it. That too is a question of mindset. Above all, one of the advantages of not relying on a generic platform, but on a dedicated solution like the one we've developed with Planet AI. Hallucination is, of course, one of the major challenges, but it's one that can be addressed.
Okay, more generally now, the question is, why do I really need AI for this? Couldn't it become quite expensive and unpredictable if I put this valuable knowledge contained in these service reports, as you said, into the cloud to be processed by AI? If the cloud costs then potentially get out of hand?
One of the key advantages of this solution is that it doesn't necessarily have to run in the cloud. You can also deploy the software in your own data center on-prem. This brings two clear benefits. First, sensitive company knowledge doesn't have to be uploaded to the cloud, which is an important factor depending on the nature of the information. Second, cost remains predictable, since on-premises infrastructure makes expenses easier to calculate and control.
Great, thank you very much, Simon. If our audience wants to learn more about this solution or explore what else Planet AI's technology can do, where should they turn?
Planet AI didn't just emerge in recent years. It's been working with artificial intelligence since the 1990s, with roots in document analysis. Back then, the focus was on processing documents that were handwritten or of very poor scan quality. Today, as paper-based documents become less and less relevant, our work has shifted toward extracting knowledge from a wide variety of sources, including fully digital documents. If you'd like more information, the entire Bechtle team is, of course, at your disposal and can provide the right internal connections. If you prefer, you can also reach out to me directly via private message.
Okay, that's a great use case and yet another proof point that AI can be a real game changer, even in areas where companies have struggled for years, sometimes even decades, without finding a solution. From the automated development and transfer of knowledge to intelligent recommendation systems, the elimination of search and handover efforts, support for multiple languages and platforms, data and access management, and continuous learning. There's truly immense potential here. Thank you for highlighting this fascinating application of AI in internal corporate knowledge management. Thank you, Simon, for presenting this case to us today. For everyone else, let's now continue with our C-Days program.
Dear C-Days friends, Emily's here, and I'm thrilled. Emily Wright. Emily heads up the Channel Business in the DACH region at IONOS, our C-Days partner this year. I'm delighted to have her here with me on stage. Hello, Emily. It's great to have you.
Hello, Michael.
Emily, you are, if I may say so, the grand finale of our series of talks here on the stage with your wonderful colleagues from IONOS. We had Markus Noga here with us yesterday on the Sovereign Clouds panel. We had your CEO, Achim Weiss, in conversation with Steve Handgrätinger, our Head of Public Sector. Two great conversations. Now you, Emily.
No pressure, I'll say, no pressure at all.
I know this next session will be great because you're presenting a topic that's really, really important. At the beginning of every cloud journey, there's usually something that can be painful, namely migration. Do you actually know what you want to migrate? Are your assets really ready for migration? Have you planned the effort, costs, and time correctly? We often see this as a real problem with our customers. You know that too, which is why Bechtle and IONOS have joined forces even more closely to create an offering that you will present in a moment. I'm very excited about it. I now hand over the stage to you, but not to you alone, because later on we'll be joined here on stage by a highly esteemed colleague from Bechtle, that's Stefan Berg from our Digital Health Competence Center. You'll introduce him in a moment. Now it's your stage. Emily, have fun and see you in 10 minutes.
Thank you, Michael. I'm very happy to be here. In today's session, we would like to show you how we can help you plan and implement secure and cost-efficient migrations. To do this, we've brought along a practical example from the healthcare sector to illustrate the value that a comprehensive TCO analysis can bring to successful migrations. For those of you who don't know us in detail, here's some information on IONOS. The IONOS Cloud Platform is developed, operated, and controlled by us in Germany. To give you a few figures, it runs on around 100,000 servers in seven data centers here in Germany and 18 more in Europe. Yes, no third country access, no license traps, no legal limbo. Instead, transparent pricing models, open source, and legal clarity.
Of course, we are also regularly audited and certified by the government, including ISO 27001 certification, BSI basic protection, and the C5 test certificate, which is worth mentioning here. With our AI model hub, we're also launching European AI models that are hosted in our data centers in a GDPR-compliant manner. In other words, these are not promises for the distant future, but simply sovereignty in action. We also brought a specific offering today. As part of our migration campaign, we will actually cover up to EUR 100,000 of the migration costs, depending on the size of the project. The requirement is always a commitment of at least 12 months. In addition, you can also test the required cloud infrastructure for up to three months, free of charge, to learn more about the environment and familiarize yourself with it.
Bechtle brings a wealth of experience and expertise to guide and support you throughout the entire migration process. Our cloud architects and account managers are also available to assist you. If you wish, you can also have a direct contact to us as your cloud provider. Now, I'm very pleased that Stefan is here with me, and he has brought some exciting insights from his practical experience. Hi Stefan.
Hi Emily. Thank you very much. Let me briefly introduce myself. I'm Stefan Berg, Lead Architect from the Competence Center Healthcare. We are a small team affiliated with Systemhaus Bonn and specialize in healthcare. We have many healthcare experts from a medical student who provides us with medical expertise. We have a doctor of healthcare and also myself as the technical contact person. We're happy to support you in the healthcare sector with everything linked to cloud services. From the current status assessment and TCO analysis to planning and design, the setup and migration, and then, of course, operation and support. We offer state-of-the-art technology and up-to-date security standards to ensure that you comply with all regulations.
Together with IONOS, we've advised a customer that was a hospital with three locations in Germany, roughly 7,700 employees, and a turnover of EUR 720 million in 2023. They have around 300 virtual servers, and they wanted to migrate one or rather four exchange servers. They considered an on-prem solution, but they also wanted to look at cloud services in parallel. Our challenge was that, on the one hand, we advised against the on-prem solution, and on the other hand, there were many different cloud providers offering their services. After the initial offer, we received the feedback from the customer, and they told us that our quote was way too expensive, EUR 1 million too high. After an initial analysis, we realized that we've actually been comparing apples with pears.
The customer had ultimately only calculated the on-prem solution, the hardware cost plus any license fees, but a cloud service is much more than just hardware and licenses. There's a real service behind it. Together with IONOS, we decided to carry out a TCO analysis. This analysis showed, together with the customer, that the cloud standard has to be the basis for comparability. We adapted the on-prem services to the cloud services to ensure comparability. We don't simply look at hardware costs and licenses, but also all the services linked here. In the analysis, we've really looked at all costs, i.e., data center performance, electricity costs, license fees, maintenance costs that might occur. Everything that's automatically included in a standard service in the cloud.
We realized that over a period of five years, the costs for the cloud service for this specific customer are definitely below the costs of the on-prem solution. It starts at the beginning. You don't have a high invest. You can start relatively small in the cloud. Of course, it adds up over the five-year term so that you have a comparable price over five years. Now you might say, okay, if I extend this line beyond the sixth year, they will cross, and then on-prem will probably be cheaper. That's not the case. After all, after five years, we will have to have a maintenance extension, and we have to pay for that. That's another invest that raises the cost for the on-prem solution.
We also found out that the on-prem version has various advantages and disadvantages, just like the cloud service, but that the advantages of the cloud services ultimately outweigh them. I'm simply more flexible when it comes to the environment. I only pay what I use at the time I use it. I have risk minimization. I can access the services from anywhere. At the end of the day, it takes less of my resources to operate the infrastructure. On this basis, together with a customer, we found out that a sovereign cloud is not necessarily more expensive than an on-prem solution. Ultimately, the sovereign cloud is a feasible, viable option for the customer. They opted for it in the end. We are currently in the process of migration. A key factor here was risk minimization for the cloud service.
The customer can transfer risks that the infrastructure might not work, that access rights might not be granted. Ultimately, that relieved his resources and his employees, and they transferred the risks to IONOS and Bechtle. You can try it out for yourself. We've put together an assessment package with IONOS, including a 30-day free trial to learn more about cloud services. If you would like more information, more details, please feel free to contact me via the email address displayed or the QR code that will appear later.
I think we can safely say that you all benefit from the close collaboration and strategic partnership between Bechtle and IONOS. We provide the sovereign, secure, and scalable cloud infrastructure, and Bechtle rounds off the portfolio with additional expertise and services. We would like to invite you all to get in touch with us for a personal consultation, to carry out an individual assessment. You're very welcome to contact us via the QR code displayed here. We would be delighted to hear from you.
I woulsd say you covered almost everything. Thank you very much, Emily Raidt. Thank you very much, Stefan Berg. It was great to have you. As promised, an important topic to round things off. I would say that anyone who isn't yet interested in the cloud transformation will be referred by us to our very nice virtual cloud clinic behind us. Embark on your journey to the cloud, and we'll continue here with our C-Days journey. Thank you very much. They say, "There is no glory in preparation." Is that really true? When it comes to cyber resilience, preparing, training, and practicing are absolutely essential. In the next episode of The CTO ON, Dirk Müller-Niessner explains why and how this works. The CTO ON Backup and Restore, the digital safety net.
Let's imagine companies as tightrope workers, balancing innovation, growth, and customer expectations at dizzying heights. The risk of losing stability and falling is always there. That's why we need a safety net beneath the wire. Backup and Restore is exactly that net. It mostly stays invisible in everyday work, but when a misstep happens, its resilience determines whether we can quickly get back to performing. The challenge? Every step in digital transformation increases the potential fall height. Complex cloud architectures, redundant data storage, interconnected supply chains, and AI-driven processes bring enormous opportunities, but also risks like ransomware, user errors, or system failures. Only comprehensive backups catch the fall, and a proven restore process gets us safely back on the wire.
That's why we see data backup not just as an IT project, but as a vital business survival issue. Four aspects make a stable safety net. One, technology. Multiple independent copies, access control, tamper-proof, and continuously monitored. Two, organization. Clearly defined roles and decision paths that work even under adverse conditions or communication breakdowns. Three, people. Train teams who know what really matters when it counts. From the service desk up to the boardroom. Four, processes. Documented recovery workflows that are regularly tested, measured, and improved. Only a practiced process is a reliable one. Practice makes perfect. Obviously, no tightrope walker relies solely on the net. They train jumps, landings, and getting back on the wire. Emergency scenarios should be practiced just as realistically. An encrypted ERP system, a corrupted cloud repository, a regional blackout. We measure whether our recovery times are met and fine-tune technology and processes for optimization.
Backup and Restore form the foundation for digital innovation. They ensure business continuity, protect reputation, and create the conditions to confidently adopt new technologies. Cyber resilience doesn't start with spectacular defense maneuvers, but with a solid foundation. When technology, organization, processes, and people form a tight safety net together, you're ready for the worst. This secures your ability to act and builds trust, and so you can boldly continue walking the tightrope of digitalization.
We are continuing with Apple. Yesterday, we talked about Apple at work, and we are changing the perspective now towards Apple platform security. We kick this session off with Lucia Ballard from Apple. Lucia will share how Apple products are secure by design, how they elevate the user experience, and how they meet the manageability needs of IT. We will also hear from Steffen Zehrer and Dr. Günther Welsch, a Department Head at the German Federal Office for Information Security, BSI, that the German government allows native iPhone and iPad in government operations. Here is Lucia Ballard. Your stage, Lucia.
Hello. It's a pleasure to be with you here at Bechtle Competence Days. My name is Lucia Ballard, and I'm the Head of Security Lifecycle Engineering at Apple. My group designs and delivers key security technologies that seamlessly protect over a billion users. Today, I'd like to talk with you about how we approach our security mission. We all know how critical devices are to our lives and to our work. As we go through our days, our devices handle a rich set of data and documents, from family photos to personal conversations and iMessage to emails with our company's intellectual property. Our mission is to protect all our users' data from attackers, ranging from criminals to nation-states who are aiming to steal or surveil it. This threat landscape is constantly evolving, and so is our security approach. It has its roots in the launch of the first iPhone.
As we were building iPhone, it became clear to us that the role mobile devices would come to play in our lives would be completely different than that for personal computers. Because we would carry these devices with us everywhere and use them for constant communication and connection, it was clear we needed to approach security in a fundamentally different way. This insight led to a new kind of investment in security that started over a decade ago and has only grown over time. The result of this effort over more than a decade is that security researchers agree that iPhone is the safest, most secure consumer mobile device. In fact, there's never been a widespread consumer malware attack on iOS. Never. This has required continuous and unrelenting effort to improve security without pause, and it is our privilege to help protect our customers in this way.
In pursuing this goal, we've arrived at core principles for how to build secure systems that power not just iPhone, but all our products. With the Mac transition to Apple Silicon, the very foundations innovated for iPhone underlie Mac security as well. It all starts with the user. iPhone gave us the opportunity to completely rethink security, putting the user at the center. This is important because traditionally, the best security was only available with expert help, and even then, only to select businesses and government. With iPhone, we rethought how to build security from the ground, or silicon, up, and ultimately how to make sure it was built in, on by default, and easy to use, which is the only way to achieve security at the scale we have, with an active install base of over 1 billion iPhones.
The story behind the introduction of Touch ID provides a great example of this user focus. In the early years of iPhone, we had built the best at-risk data protection system in the world. While we simply call this data protection, it is quite advanced. It handles multiple classes of protection to, for example, allow for downloading and encrypting data when the device is locked, or support unattended software updates while maintaining data protection. All a user has to do to take advantage of this powerful system is just to set a passcode. It turned out that our great data protection investment wasn't protecting the majority of users in the real world. We dug into why. Users unlock their devices a lot, and to most, it just wasn't worth the inconvenience of a passcode.
Where most companies might have just given up or mandated or coerced users into setting passcodes, we realized there was a better way. We introduced Touch ID for easy, fast, and secure access, and we made it behave as essentially a shortcut for the passcode. The user must have a passcode set to use biometrics. Afterwards, the vast majority of users set a passcode and enjoyed the full benefits of data protection. Fundamentally, we reject the trade-off between security and usability and pursue both at once. As Apple has introduced additional biometric options, Face ID with iPhone and iPad, and Optic ID with Vision Pro, the secure enclave keeps user biometric data private and secure while also providing secure authentication. We achieve this best security and features like Touch ID and Face ID through deeply integrating hardware, software, and services.
This is something only Apple can do from the silicon up. You've heard us talk more and more about silicon at Apple. It's designed for power, efficiency, and security, and it is doing even more for security than most realize. Our silicon is actually what is called an SOC, or a system on a chip. All SOCs have multiple independent subcomponents, often processors themselves. In Apple SOCs, many of them are part of our security story, including some custom ones that are purpose-built for security alone. Designing security in at this level requires starting years before a device will ship. Dedicating SOC subcomponents to security allows us to use them to perform critical operations fully separate from the main CPU. This helps protect against an app or even a compromise of the central operating system itself from being able to compromise the security function performed on the subcomponent.
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Data for users on their iPhones, we decided that simply encrypting that data on the file system wasn't good enough. We did something no other company would have attempted. We introduced the Secure Enclave in the iPhone 5S to protect Touch ID data with our own custom silicon. Now we have many security components in silicon besides just the Secure Enclave, such as the boot ROM, our crypto engines, random number generators, and a secure storage component.
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These components power critical functions, such as secure boot, which helps ensure a known good version of the OS from Apple loads at startup, data protection to encrypt user data on device, components that help protect device passcode, and integrity protection measures built deep into the code execution architecture. This focus on hardware design also extends to sensors like the Face ID sensor. With Face ID, each time you glance at the phone, it detects your face, even in the dark. The IR camera takes an image. The dot projector projects thousands of invisible IR dots. A secure algorithm running in isolation from the main operating system calculates the biometric match. As a result, there's a less than one in one million chance that a random person can unlock your device with their face. This forms the secure foundation for a unique iPhone capability, stolen device protection.
When stolen device protection is active, a thief cannot, for example, change your Apple account password or device passcode because Face ID is required with no passcode fallback. Even a thief with a passcode cannot bypass these protections. Ultimately, our hardware and software are made for each other. It is only this integration that lets us provide industry-leading security for our devices. These same principles, putting the user at the center, integrating hardware and software, and continuous iteration, have informed our approach to Apple's next major technical advance, Apple Intelligence. It's built into your iPhone, iPad, and Mac to help you write, express yourself, and get things done effortlessly. Take, for example, live translation, which can translate text and audio, help you communicate across languages. It's integrated across messages, FaceTime, and phone. Of course, we believe powerful intelligence needs to go hand in hand with powerful privacy.
The cornerstone of Apple Intelligence is on-device processing. We have it integrated deep into your iPhone, iPad, and Mac, and throughout your apps. It is aware of your personal data without Apple ever collecting your personal data. Many of these models run entirely on your device. There are times, though, when you need models that are larger than what fits in your pocket today. We purpose-built servers based on Apple silicon to do this, called private cloud compute, which is designed so that no one, not even Apple, can see your requests or the response. Your data is never stored and never made accessible to anyone. The data is deleted after the response is returned to you. In addition, the data that is sent to private cloud compute is used exclusively to fulfill your request.
Just like your iPhone, independent experts can inspect the software that runs on these servers to verify this privacy promise. We aren't asking you to trust Apple. We're letting others validate the promises we've made. Together, we think this is an extraordinary leap forward for privacy and AI. The journey we began over 15 years ago in rethinking security with iPhone has come a long way. Any Apple product you buy today decisively leads its industry class in security. We're relentless about continuing to protect our users with world-leading security in software, hardware, and the cloud. Thank you.
Thank you, Lucia. We are moving on in this session with Steffen Zehrer from Apple and Dr. Günther Welsch from BSI. Here we go.
Hello, I'm Stefan Sierer from Apple, and I'm responsible for our business in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. A warm welcome to all of you here today at the Apple Studios in Munich. I'm especially delighted to have you with us here today, Günther Welsch from the German Federal Office for Information Security, the BSI. Welcome.
Thank you very much, Steffen.
Could you walk us through what the BSI does, the specific tasks it carries out for the federal government, and perhaps also highlight how your work impacts the broader market, the economy, and industry?
The BSI, in full, the Federal Office for Information Security, is an executive agency within the Federal Ministry of the Interior. Our core responsibility is shaping information security and cybersecurity across Germany. We focus on protecting government, businesses, and society at large through prevention, detection, and response measures. When it comes to the federal administration, we're in a rather unique position. We take care of in-house security for government systems. That's also where my specific responsibility lies as the Department Head at BSI, overseeing the certification and approval of IT systems that handle classified government information.
Platform security is absolutely central at Apple, as Lucia just mentioned. Over the past few years, Apple and the BSI have partnered on a project called Indigo. Could you give us some context on what Indigo actually stands for and what's behind it?
Indigo is an acronym. In full, it stands for iOS Native Devices in Government Operations, specifically at the security classification level of VS NFD, which translates to classified for official use only. It's a system we use in mobile environments, driving digital transformation so that mobile scenarios are possible and core PIM functionalities, that is, personal information management functionalities, are seamlessly integrated into the mobile space.
Could you briefly explain what triggered the opportunity to kick off Indigo as a project? When did you recognize this as a real opportunity? Looking at the solution today, what kinds of problems does Indigo solve? Or put differently, what opportunities does it help realize?
Yes, gladly. Let me take a step back because mobile security isn't a new topic. It's something we've been concerned with for quite a long time. It all started when mobile telecommunications emerged and there was a need to enable secure voice communication, that is, via encrypted channels. From there, the smartphone world gradually took shape. Apple, of course, played a significant role with the iPhone. On those platforms, the first applications and frameworks began to appear that allowed for secure personal information management. Yes, Apple, as a player, just as Lucia mentioned, has a strong foundation in hardware-based security. That's something we at the BSI really appreciate because software is always susceptible to manipulation, whereas hardware is considerably less so. This has resulted in a secure system platform with many functionalities that have been used in those apps I mentioned earlier for PIM management.
The logical conclusion was obvious. If the secure platform increasingly incorporates sophisticated hardware security features, why not use the native device, an iPhone, which you can buy anywhere, basically, but then enable it through specific hardening measures, configuration via mobile device management, and integration with backend systems to ensure secure information processing in mobile contexts for public administration, which otherwise could only be done from the office? That's a huge step forward. It's tangible digital transformation in public administration.
That's extremely exciting. At this point, I'd also like to sincerely thank you and your team for the truly outstanding and trustful collaboration over the past years. The BSI's security approval and recommendation has now led to one of the largest framework agreements ever for public authorities. That's where partners like Bechtle come into play.
Absolutely. Exactly. These are very important partners. First of all, because I or the BSI have granted the approval for the government classified sector, it actually became possible to issue a framework contract via the Federal Procurement Office, the so-called Kaufhaus des Bundes, and then procure Apple systems, including complementary security and additional services. Now it's possible for public authorities to obtain these systems and, through the system partner, also help shape the integration into the backend systems and information processing of the specific authority, making a real-world usage scenario possible.
Yes, thank you very much. Thanks also to Bechtle for the really outstanding collaboration on this project. We've already talked about the framework agreement, which now essentially enables every federal agency to order iPhones and iPads for their staff, thus significantly advancing digital transformation. One example is the Customs Authority, which decided last year to switch to iOS, that is, iPhones. Could you maybe tell us a bit more about that?
I'd be happy to. With Indigo providing this secure system platform, app developers no longer have to program and implement the security functions themselves. They can rely on security features that the platform already provides. This means the clear focus of app developers is to build an app that best meets the user's needs. From this emerges an ecosystem because, for example, the Customs Authority has specific needs, such as combating undeclared work. Certain backend systems must be available to customs officers on site, for example, when they're at a construction site. Police, on the other hand, have entirely different requirements for their operational measures. Many different use cases can be imagined.
This is where the strength of this platform approach truly comes into play. At the application level, an ecosystem of specialized apps will now develop, giving startups the opportunity to provide sleek, tailored applications, not only for the public sector, but also beyond that. Ultimately, everyone benefits from using a consistent platform that will continue to evolve. Maybe Apple wants to share more details about upcoming developments. This is something users can relatively easily integrate into their use cases. I believe this is a highly effective form of digitalization that truly enables mobile scenarios to become fully viable.
Yes, I share that conviction as well. The question that naturally follows is, this isn't just relevant for federal agencies, right? What's your assessment on that?
That's absolutely right. We now have strong cybersecurity regulations in Europe that are being implemented at the national level as well. I'm thinking of the NIS Directive Implementation Law, the Cyber Resilience Act, CRA, the Critical Infrastructure Framework Law, CRITIS, and many, many others. This means new requirements are coming for all users operating in the cyber domain. In particular, professional users in critical infrastructure sectors or general industry face the same challenges as we do. We are in the crosshairs of intelligence, surveillance, and organized crime. We need to collectively raise and strengthen the overall cybersecurity level in cyberspace and build a resilient environment.
With that, what we would now call the state-of-the-art secure system solution naturally creates a different demand in the market, hopefully, because what works well for us in protecting classified information should also apply equally to information protection in companies and the safeguarding of the IT systems connected behind the scenes.
Günther, you explicitly include business and industry as potential customers for Indigo since they often align their security standards and enforcement with the key recommendations of the BSI. Is that correct?
That's correct, exactly. On the one hand, what we're doing is, I believe, already at a very high level. As Germans, we're often suspected of overemphasizing security. I think we've found a good balance here, managing the magic triangle between functionality, cost, and security in such a way that real appropriate security levels are achieved at a competitive price. From my perspective, that should be very stimulating for the market.
Yes, and I can confirm that. Immediately following the BSI's security approval and recommendation, we received many inquiries from small and medium-sized companies, as well as large customers wanting to know more. The security recommendation attracted attention not only in business and industry, but also beyond national borders. We have received inquiries from other European countries seeking more detailed information, particularly wanting to understand how they can adopt the frameworks themselves.
Yes, absolutely right. We've also received inquiries directly from partner authorities across Europe who are interested in adopting these solutions. I would say if we manage to establish a standardized solution at the European level, as I described with the app system, the ecosystem, then the demand will grow significantly. I also hope that this will encourage Apple to invest even more in advancing the secure system platform because with these use cases and the scaling we see, there is naturally increased demand for additional specific security features. These elements ultimately work together in this market. That's why there is a significant ripple effect, especially because the BSI naturally enjoys an extremely strong reputation. BSI recommendations are internationally recognized and adopted.
Yes, and this is something we are, of course, very aware of, which means we have to deliver very solid work. That is exactly what we have done in this area. The evaluation we advanced together with the help of a testing body is conducted according to the common criteria at a very, very high evaluation depth. We can rightly say that this is a solution that not only represents the state of the art, but also brings an incredibly high level of trustworthiness. Günther, a heartfelt thank you for the explanations and for what I consider very, very exciting insights into the Indigo project.
Thank you very much, Steffen. I believe we have reached a milestone here, and I'm confident we will identify and hopefully achieve many more together in the future. Looking forward to that.
So are we. Thank you very much. With that, a heartfelt thank you to everyone watching and back to the Bechtle team. Thank you.
Where are we headed as a society in this age of rapid technological change? Dear friends here at the C-Days, naturally, we talk a great deal about the technologies driving these changes. Are we talking enough about where they're taking us? Maybe not. That's why I'd like to bridge that gap a bit. In the next few minutes here at the C-Days, we will be joined by a very special guest whom I'm truly very pleased to host today. That guest is Marc Elsberg. Marc is one of the most influential contemporary European authors. "Blackout," "Zero," "Helix," "Greed," "The President's Fall," and most recently, "C for Celsius," are books that many of you have surely read, devoured, and which stayed on bestseller lists for a long time.
Clearly, Marc Elsberg's work tackles the issues that captivate people in Europe, the urgent questions at the intersection of technology and society, the question of our shared future. His books are more than thrilling entertainment, which is why we ask Marc to join us. They're also a call to all of us to actively engage with the digital and technological future of our world here in Europe and to shoulder responsibility for it. I'm delighted he's here with us. A warm welcome to Marc Elsberg.
Hello, it's great to be here.
Thank you, Mark, for making time for us. Let's dive right in. Looking at your work and reading your books, one thing stands out. The technological developments that are very much on our minds today, that have preoccupied us in Europe over the last decade and continue to do so, clearly fascinate you, and you make them the subject of your work. Why is that? What drives you? What motivates you?
My goal is simply to produce thrilling entertainment. The question is, what is thrilling? For me, what these technologies are doing to us is incredibly gripping. There's a saying that gets told in two ways. One version is attributed to the famous media theorist Marshall McLuhan, who basically said that we first shape our tools and then our tools shape us. A few decades earlier, Winston Churchill, when the British Parliament was being renovated after the Second World War had been destroyed by bombs, wondered whether it should be renovated to look as it had before, with two opposing sides, as it ultimately looks today, and as you can see on television, or whether it should be made to look more like a semicircle or arena, as in most parliaments in modern democracies.
In the context of this discussion, he also said that first we shape or design our dwellings, our buildings, and then they shape us. I find that incredibly fascinating because you can see from the example of the British Parliament that you can design a building in such a way that parliamentary parties sit directly opposite each other. That has a different effect on people than when they sit next to each other, half-facing each other, as in most other parliaments. We see this in so many things, and my generation in particular has experienced firsthand how societies have changed through technology. I'm a child who grew up without digitalization, or at least without the internet, and then experienced the advent of the World Wide Web as a young adult back when I was working in advertising.
In the mid-1990s, when it became popular, I quickly realized that it would spell the end for my industry in its current form. That's exactly what happened. Those of us who are part of this generation may recall the expectations, promises, ideals, ideas, and fears that accompanied the early days of the internet. On the one hand, there was the notion that we were about to witness the complete democratization of the world, which of course collapsed at the time due to geopolitical developments. Eisenhower died, and the democratic rule-based world order seemed to have triumphed. In the years that followed, however, we saw what really became of those promises and fears that had been expressed at the time, that we would end up with the surveillance state, as George Orwell predicted in 1984.
This example shows very clearly that things often don't turn out the way authors imagined them. Today, almost everything is happening simultaneously. We have experienced democratization in some areas, and in others, we now have complete surveillance. That's just the way it is. For example, when my book, "Helix," was published in 2016, it was about genetic manipulation of humans. I had considered, at the time, writing a story about genetic manipulation of humans. I had done so for a few years before that, but the technology wasn't available yet. At some point, the first paper on CRISPR-Cas9 was published, and I immediately thought, okay, if what it says is true, this is a complete game changer. Now we're beginning to see the scenario I described in "Helix" in 2016 and in the German paperback version published in 2018.
American companies are already offering for screening of fertilized cells to check for all kinds of things, not just gender, which has been done for a long time in the U.S., and eye color, but also potential predispositions to known diseases, increased talent in certain areas, intelligence, and so on. What I ultimately do in my books is offer scenarios, so to speak. When you package that in an exciting story, it's usually more accessible to people than if it's a scientific paper or even just a scenario draft from a consulting firm or a university institute or something like that. That's what ultimately motivates me to tell these stories. How can I make this more tangible for people? What is possible or even seemingly impossible? Take "Blackout" as an example.
"Blackout" isn't just a story about a power outage and a hacker attack, but actually a story about how our modern world operates, namely through a tightly woven network of systems. That becomes completely apparent. On the one hand, this is the very foundation of our prosperity, but on the other hand, this foundation is also vulnerable. I think people consider these things much more when they experience them emotionally through a novel.
Yes, Marc, you mentioned "Blackout." For me, this is the perfect opportunity to ask you how you felt when we saw the lights go out on the Iberian Peninsula a few months ago.
I'm always kind of torn at first because as the author of "Blackout," I think to myself, it'll be fine. I admit that you're always a little nervous at the beginning because what I learned during my research for the book is that there are a great many people out there who are working hard to ensure that these systems function, especially in the energy sector, where they undergo training, perform exercises, run through various scenarios, and so on and so forth. What I was able to observe in the case of electricity is that you can continue to monitor the situation over the first few minutes and hours to see if it spreads across borders.
For example, if it presumably has what I would call a natural cause, in other words, no intentional cause, it could be due to human or technical error, weather conditions, or something else. Then it will be over within a few hours or a day or two at the most. During that time, I'm always a bit like, let's see what happens. If it doesn't get dramatically worse in the first few hours, I start to relax again, I have to say.
That's good. Thankfully, in this case, the time to relax did come without wanting to downplay the restrictions for the people there, of course. They were right in the midst of it and gave us an idea of what was happening there. One aspect that always fascinates me when I read your books or talk about these topics is the role of the individual in this all-encompassing, interconnected world. What role does the individual still play? Would you say we're still in control of our data? Is that even realistic anymore?
We are largely no longer in control of our data at the moment. Unfortunately, that has to be said, that ship has pretty much sailed. Even if you decided today to withdraw completely from t he system with a cell phone, no internet connection, and moved to a desert island, I always compare it to what I call the mineral water effect. Likening it to all the water droplets in a bottle of mineral water or in a glass of mineral water, they're all as transparent as we are to all the data collectors. Now, from one day to the next, I've decided that I'm no longer a drop of water, but an air bubble in that water bottle. They can see me just the same, and I know just as well what they're doing.
I'm just no longer interesting to the system insofar as I'm less marketable. Ultimately, I'm excluding myself from the water bottle. That's the question: do I want to do that? That doesn't mean that individuals can't still have an impact in this whole system. That's the classic scenario in a complex system. We remember that we all grew up in the early days of chaos research, etc. The famous butterfly effect, where a butterfly flapping its wings over the ocean can trigger a tornado somewhere else entirely. Individuals can definitely still have an impact. I'm not saying they can't.
That's good news. We're now talking a lot about the technological developments we see and how they concern us. Are there any technological developments that make you particularly optimistic?
Technological developments generally make me feel optimistic because t hey open up tremendous new possibilities for us. That has always been the case with almost all technologies in the past. Ultimately, when it comes to technology, I always ask myself how I can use it. I can build a house with a hammer or kill someone with it. With the internet, I can create democratized media for everyone or spread fake news. I won't mention any names, but we all know what's going on out there on many platforms. With most technologies, we have the dual-use problem or the dual-use challenge. That's where it gets exciting for me, because that's where technology only plays a secondary role. First, we humans have to decide what we actually want to do with this technology.
In that respect, as I said, I find all technologies promising and definitely a source of optimism at the same time. Let's at least always picture the other side of the coin in our minds. I always think of both sides at the same time. You could do this, or you could do that. That's perhaps the dark side of the thriller writer whose favorite characters are generally the bad guys and who thinks, "What else could I use this for?" That was one of my motivations for Zero, for example, which I wrote in 2012 and 2013, when I thought to myself, "If I were Mark Zuckerberg, what would I do with things like Facebook, Instagram, and the like?" That then turned into a story about surveillance and marketing.
Yes, indeed. That gives me the opportunity to come back to something you mentioned in your first answer, Marc. There are many comparisons today between the development of the internet and, by contrast, the development of artificial intelligence as a mass phenomenon in recent years. Do you think that we are actually in a better position today to deal with the possibilities and opportunities, but also the risks, in a more balanced and differentiated way than we were when the internet began to take off?
I believe we were capable of doing so back then, and we are capable of doing so today. The question is always what conclusions you reach and which forces ultimately prevail in these discussions. When it comes to artificial intelligence in particular, I currently have the impression, but I may be wrong, that we are now reaching the first peak of large language models. Now, people are slowly realizing that everything we've been promised over the last year or two or three isn't as clever as they always said it would be. For example, the thing still can't write books like mine. It can't even analyze them. It can't even analyze parts of them. It's still overwhelmed by complex creative tasks like that. In other areas, when it comes to utilizing large amounts of data, comparing patterns very quickly, and so on, it's already better. In many areas, it's not.
In that respect, it seems to me that we will soon enter the second half of the cycle, namely what we experienced with the internet in the early 2000s before it really took off a few years later, which we then experienced in the mid-2000s with YouTube, the success of really big networks such as Facebook and the like, and certain other developments since then. I would describe this as a pause or a slight dampening of the euphoria, which I believe we will soon experience. We could and should use this time to consider carefully how we want to proceed and what we should do now.
Personally, I believe that what went seriously wrong with the internet, something that was predicted back then, is the danger that too much power will be concentrated in too few hands. In my opinion, it should even be considered public infrastructure. It doesn't belong in the hands of a few private individuals. That's one of the aspects that will become extremely important in this area.
Indeed, Marc, and we're discussing many issues related to digital sovereignty at this event, particularly in the European context. I believe that the thoughts you just mentioned are also very relevant to the question of how we can effectively protect our critical infrastructure, especially public infrastructure, and ensure that it is always available to citizens. Intriguing question. Let's look ahead once more. We've mentioned some of the books you've written and that we're familiar with. I imagine you're probably working on other projects during these exciting times. What future technology do you find so fascinating that it could play a major role in one of your next books, for example?
Yes, there are still some fascinating future technologies, of course. AI is definitely one of them. Although it has to be said that this is something of a popular topic, which has always been present in science fiction in one form or another, because it was more or less part of the genre. There's a lot going on there. The question is whether there is anything truly new to offer. Quantum computing will certainly play a role. With all these topics, it is always a question of how long it takes to write the book, which is one to three years, and then it takes another six months to a year before it is even on the market, and then it has to survive on the market for two, three, or five years.
We're talking about a period of six, seven, eight years, and many developments are currently happening so quickly that I could perhaps write journalistic articles about them, but by the time my book is published, what I assume before may already be outdated. Further technologies quite clearly include genetics in all its forms and nanotechnology. What fascinates me and what surprises me is that not much more has been written about the combination of genetics and nanotechnology, that is, the use of solutions that nature has already provided us with for applications in new areas, such as the construction of small technological robots. Nature has given us much better tools for this.
AI is actually a wonderful example. It was ultimately developed based on the human brain or part of the human nervous system. When I look at how incredibly inefficient it actually is, a human brain needs a comparatively tiny amount of energy to perform much better than any AI can currently achieve. According to what I read earlier today, Mark Zuckerberg wants to build service centers and energy plants the size of Manhattan for AI. I think there is still a lot to expect in many areas. A lot will certainly happen, especially when these technologies converge, which will probably be the next exciting development. When AI merges with robotics or when AI merges with nanotechnology, for example, and so on and so forth, some of these scenarios could conceivably happen in the next few years. They have been the stuff of science fiction for decades, but now they are suddenly becoming reality.
Absolutely. Of course, we're also talking about the interplay of technologies to create something new. With your input, we're taking another big leap forward and turning our attention once again to technological dimensions and worlds that, as you say, may seem very distant to us today, but are now rapidly becoming a reality. Dear Marc Elsberg, I'm incredibly grateful to you for taking the time to join us here on our C-Day stage. Thank you very much. We're taking with us many thought-provoking ideas and insights that will stay with us in the coming weeks and months, not only here at the event, but far beyond. Thank you very much, and have a pleasant day wherever you are. We look forward to welcoming you back here again in the future.
Thank you for letting me be part of today's event. I wish you a wonderful and exciting day. Thank you.
I nearly can't believe it myself, ladies and gentlemen. C-Days 2025 is coming to an end. Nearly. There is not much more left to say for me, but thank you. Thank you to our attendees. You are great. You spend so much time with us, whether you joined us here on our digital platform, whether you joined us via LinkedIn yesterday. It was great to have you all with us, and we are really grateful for the time you devoted to join us here at C-Days. Thank you to our speakers and partners. You made all of that happen, and this is outstanding. You did a tremendous job.
Whether you came in here from remote, whether you have been here on stage, as an interviewee, as a keynote speaker, with a use case or a customer case, whatsoever, you did a great job, and it's a great pleasure to be working with all of you. Thank you very much for your support. Finally, to the team, the team here in the studio and the team that is spread all over Bechtle, across the whole continent, who supported all of you, supported this event in a wonderful way. It's really a pleasure working with all of you. By the way, team, may I ask you for a favor? I think we owe our audience one view, one look into the real setting we are in here. You know, we kept all of you here in this virtual stage for hours. Now here is how it really looks around me.
Can we kick, can we switch off the stage for a second? Yes, thank you. It's very green, as you can see. You know, that is a perfect match for us at Bechtle. We are green as well. We feel very comfortable in this environment. It's a great pleasure to show that to you, at least for a second. Now we can bring it up again. Thank you very much, team here. A big round of applause from all of you out there and from me here on the stage to the team. You are doing a great job. What more can I say? Give us your feedback. This is important. Use the questionnaire that we are sending to you as our attendees. Use the comment function here on the Competence Hub page you're on. Reach out to your Bechtle representative close to you.
On which way ever, your feedback is much appreciated and will be definitely recognized. Thank you, because we want to get better with all we do. Finally, share the message. All the content we have produced here is available for you and for your colleagues now on the Competence Hub platform. You can review everything you want. You can share everything you want. Use this as a source of inspiration for your IT and technology decision-making in the next weeks and months ahead. We are wishing you well for the remains of 2025. Be curious, be bold, be committed, and ideally, be with us. Thank you very much to all of you. Me personally, I think I'm taking a break now, jumping on my plane. You should do the same. Enjoy the rest of the day. Safe travels wherever you are, and all the best. Bye-bye from C-Days.