Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us for the Q3 2026 Investor and Analyst Q&A session following the speeches this morning. My name is Stefan Richmann, and I am Senior Vice President, Group Treasury and Investor Relations. With me are our Chief Executive Officer, Milan Nedeljković, as well as our Chief Financial Officer, Walter Mertl. We are happy to take your questions. I kindly ask you to stick to the usual number of two questions per person. We will jump straight in once the operator has provided the necessary technical instructions.
Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our Q&A session. If you have a question, we ask that you please use the raise hand function at the bottom of your Zoom screen. Or if you have dialed in, please press star button and nine to enter the queue. Once your name has been announced, you can ask a question. If you would like to withdraw your question, please lower your hand using the raise hand function in the Zoom app, or via telephone, press star nine button and nine. Thank you, and please stay tuned for our first question. The first question is from Tim Rokossa at Deutsche Bank. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yeah. Thank you very much, Milan, Walter, and Stefan. I have two questions, please. The first one is on the portfolio element of the additional measures that you announced last night. I do not think that is something that anyone really expected from our side. Can you help us understand the financial effect of this a bit better? Theoretically, I would assume that it makes the Gen5 models that you are still selling a little bit more profitable, and Gen6 is obviously more accretive anyway, should be supportive for your margin. Is that helping you on the EBIT margin next year, Walter? Is that an effect that you feel, or is it too small to actually be worthwhile to quantify for us? Secondly, I guess to you, Milan, can we come back to something that you mentioned at the CMD and that was also asked about on the press call?
I do not want to ask you again what exactly the business opportunity is on AI that you have in mind, but in your mind, is this something that can be as important as rivaling the car business for you guys in terms of revenues or profit? Or is this more like something that we should think about as an additional smaller segment/revenue opportunity? Thank you.
Good morning, Tim, and thank you very much for your questions. The first question where you focused on the topics of Gen5 and Gen6, I will pass it on to Walter, and then following up with Milan on the business opportunity on AI. Walter, please.
Hello, Tim. Pleased to meet all of you again after the Capital Markets Day, where we explained our journey towards the next few months. Yesterday was just one milestone again. We discussed further opportunities, further possibilities to enhance our business going forward, especially the profitability going forward. As a lot of these structural measures we implemented have been working really good and fast, we just decided yesterday to do the second step again. Earlier is better than later, as we discussed at the Capital Markets Day. Everything is contributive to better positive profitability in the future. How much is a question of the topic, but in principle, everything helps. That's how we dealt with, and we are not detailing all these differentiations of this further one and a quarter EBIT point, which we are utilizing for, should this question come later. Thank you.
Tim, you're referencing to the Capital Markets Day when we did talk about AI and the opportunities of AI. As mentioned before, BMW has significant competence in AI, and we can see that especially focusing on industrial AI, we have developed skills which are remarkable. Based on these facts and the fact that we are intensifying cooperations in multiple fields, there are options, opportunities for the future where we can see some leveraging of our competencies, which are beyond the classic car business. Not to raise expectations too much, we're not talking of a second element which would be that significant to somehow neglect the car business. We are just focusing on our competencies, and we are looking for synergies, and let's see how they will develop.
Thank you. That's quite clear. Can I just follow up then on, Walter, your answer? You were quoted on Bloomberg saying that the accelerated restructuring and additional measures suggest that the 3%-5% 2028 target could be achieved earlier. Is that the right quotation that you want us to leave this call with, or did you just say that the cost cuts are obviously accelerating, and we will have to see whatever that means, just to make sure that we get the right message? Thank you.
Mm-hmm. Thanks, Tim, for asking again. I do not think that I mentioned it like that. Just confirmed our 3%-5% in 2028 out of EBIT margin, and I mentioned all these measures are supportive to achieve that. That is it. Going forward, everything which we can do faster and quicker to execute is good for the future. That is what I mentioned.
That is what I thought.
At least I thought I mentioned that in German.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you, guys. Thank you.
The next question is from José Asumendi at JPMorgan. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Thank you very much, and good morning. Two questions, please. Walter, can you comment, please, on the expected restructuring cash outflows in 2026 and 2027, as well as any of the P&L benefits we should expect in 2027, or some of the estimates you could share? I know this is an ongoing process, obviously. Milan, can you talk a little bit about, please, the Chinese market, latest developments you're seeing in the last months, and whether you are happy with existing capacity and the production run rates, or do you think you need to do further adjustments down to get ready for 2027? Thank you.
Good morning to London, José, and thank you for your questions. Indeed, as you proposed, first one going to Walter with regards to cash outflows 2026, 2027, and potential P&L benefits. The second one, then, with regards to China, will go to Milan. Walter, please.
Hello, Jose. I am not talking so much about 2027, of course not. This year, we confirmed our EUR 2.5 billion free cash flow. I would just like to stress at this position that, because some of you recognize we also adjusted our volume guidance, by adjusting this volume guidance, we wouldn't have had to go ad hoc. No, we confirmed with this ad hoc, A, that we have an operational EBIT margin of more than 2%, and we confirmed our free cash flow for 2026 of more than EUR 2.5 billion. That is first of all the statement. We only went ad hoc because of the special measures of this intensification and this expansion of our portfolio and structural measures. That is first of all. So that means this year, we will have 2.5 EBIT points of this restructuring processes.
Of course, that means in the quarter, more or less 10, right? So 2.5 for the full year is more or less 10 in the quarter. We shouldn't forget this. Of course, that should have positive effects into 2027, and that is the clear message. All about the effects in 2027, we will elaborate in March. Thank you.
Jose, thanks for the question for the Chinese market. As you know, the Chinese market is dynamic and volatile. This year, we have been surprised by the dip in the second quarter, which led to the first change of our guidance. The dip at that time was primarily for the ICEs, which was nearly up to 40% in one month, comparing it to the previous year and also comparing it to the month before. So, we expected this year to be more consistent on ICEs. What we see is the ICE dipped significantly. The whole market is going down by more than 20%, and we are affected as well. However, the last month, we could maintain a good level, and we are now gaining market shares in the ICE segment, which, at the end of the day, is a good message looking onto our brand strength.
At the same time, it shows the necessity for electrification and the ramp-up of the Gen6. The first market launch we had now with the iX3 and i3 presentations there do show significant positive impact. We gained very positive feedback from customers, but also from journalists, and they see our tech stack to be highly competitive. We are surprising the Chinese market with the technologies we are offering. So, we see a good momentum now to add to our ICE portfolio the Gen6 products, and with that, to stabilize our volume for the next year.
The next question is from Henning Cosman at Barclays. Please press star six to unmute and begin with your question.
Hi, good morning, everybody. Thank you for taking my questions. The first one, Stefan, I will let you allocate, but it's probably for Walter. On the underlying margin in Q4, excluding the one-offs, right, at the midpoint, it implies about a 0% exit rate or so. I appreciate the calculation of the underlying on the full year being still above five, but I am just above two, but I am just wondering what the difference is to the Q4 implied Q4 exit margin. Is that all seasonality, or is there anything else in there? Or what's really the underlying rate we should assume despite the implied zero in Q4 at the midpoint? That's the first question. I hope that's clear. On China again, sorry to come back to that.
Could you just remind us again of your absolute volume assumption now, the normalized volume assumption you're budgeting with for the midterm plan? Mercedes obviously just announced basically another Capital Markets Day to reset the China assumptions again in the context of the further deterioration they've seen over the last few months. If you could just explicitly confirm that you stand by your basically stable assumptions. For those who might disagree with that assessment, could you just talk a bit about the sensitivity of your EBIT and free cash flow to these China volumes if they were lower? Could you just give us some comfort that the sensitivity to those China volumes isn't actually very high, even if they were to come in below your assessment? Thank you very much.
Good morning, Henning, and thank you very much for your two questions. I will give the first one indeed, as you assumed, to Walter, with regards to the underlying margin in Q4, to run us through the individual steps in that calculation. Afterwards, if it's fine with you, I will answer your second question on the volume assumption regarding China.
Hello, Henning. The underlying margin, you saw, if you take out this one-off effect in Q3, for example, with our supplier, which everyone knows about, it would have been 2.1% in Q3. And you know also that it was 2.3% in Q2. Forget about Q1, because there was also a slight different situation with the sales mix. Moving into Q4, of course, we have, from a seasonality point of view, always a slightly better margin in Q1 and a slightly lower margin in Q4. That is the usual seasonality in our business. Some of that is with stock management, and the other element is fixed cost seasonality. These ones are always rather weighing on our Q4 EBIT margins, and you see that. That means, usually it will be something around nil or one, because we run on a range and not on a dot.
It will be, again, low in Q4. We could assume that. And of course, don't forget these extra one and a quarter margin, which we will utilize for our portfolio and structural measures. That is a number on the full year, so that means more or less 5% weigh in the quarter four, on top of the other more or less 5%, which we mentioned already beforehand. That's why I mentioned to José that we will have, with this 2.5 EBIT points full year effect, more or less 10% EBIT hit in the quarter four. And the underlying business is more or less in this area, plus what you statistically calculated. Thank you, Henning.
Picking up on the China question, Henning, I would like to come back to the conversation that we had during our Capital Markets Day on 9/29 with regards to volume assumptions in China. We've clearly stated back then that we will not make any similar volume assumptions on China as we have done in the year 2025. Of course, I'm happy to refer to actual figures, where it's obvious that we are in the 30s on a monthly volume run rate, going up and down, but in a corridor in the 30s for the last couple of months. But all of that is before the launch of the iX3 at the end of this month.
As we pointed out also earlier in the media call, for us, that is an opportunity to enter into a segment where we have not been present for the last couple of months. But we will not make any statement with regards to volume assumptions. And with that position, I would also say we are part of the vast majority of the automotive industry not making any statements on future volume assumptions in China right now. It is simply too volatile. And maybe on a last note, with regards to sensitivity, Walter stressed it in the media call, and I think he also mentioned just before, we would not have gone ad hoc based on our statement on the volume guidance for this year. I think that clearly shows that in some way, sensitivity is also limited. Thank you.
The next question is from Stuart Pearson at OxCap Analytics. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yeah. Good morning. Thank you for taking the question. Two question areas. Just firstly on the downgrade, I appreciate the incremental restructuring. But just on the underlying side, on the volumes, a slight downgrade on the margin. As much as it's maybe not huge, depending on, I guess, the starting point, something does seem to have got worse in the last five weeks since the CMD, or at least that's what I fear. Not just looking at what you're saying, but what we've heard from other companies, and even companies like Polestar delaying their results for us last night. Perhaps you can reassure us that the industry isn't deteriorating much quicker than we thought. I don't just mean in China, I mean U.S. and Europe as well.
It just feels like something has changed here that perhaps we're not focusing enough attention on. Maybe just a comment on that. Then on the free cash flow side, the guidance, just, I mean, how much of the, I guess, the EUR 1.8+ billion you expect to get in Q4 is dependent on this tariff collection from the U.S.? I think that was a high three-digit amount. What's your confidence on collecting that? Then, I guess, looking into 2027, I know you probably can't quantify, but just the various tailwinds and headwinds we might want to think about free cash flow next year. I guess R&D is still down a significant amount. What you're doing on the product probably doesn't change that, but there'll be some cash out for restructuring. Just any thoughts on next year's free cash flow as well. Thank you.
Good morning, Stuart, and thank you very much for your questions. On the third one, I would say we will indeed not quantify anything. Obviously, we'll be doing that mid of March of next year when we talk about the 2027 guidance. Qualitatively, I'll leave it up to Walter whether he wants to address it. I think it's much more relevant with regards to the first two questions. I will hand both to Walter. First one, I have to admit, if we understood it correctly, you're wondering whether anything significant has changed in our assumptions with regards to the different regions in the world since the CMD in September. Then the second one was about free cash flow impact, and how confident we are on the tariff reimburse, and whether it plays a relevant role in free cash flow. Walter.
Hello, Stuart. Well, it has not changed dramatically or significantly on our operational side. That's why we also mentioned in the talk, which is usually unusual, that we are not just guiding a new EBIT margin range, but we also stress our operation business. And our operational EBIT margin, we said, is better than 2%, in conjunction with the EUR 2.5 billion free cash flow, which is unchanged to June's guidance. We cannot see that we have further deteriorations on the margins, let's say. And with respect to free cash flow, dedicated to the free cash flow, of course, there is, as we always mentioned, a tariff included, a tariff reimbursement included. We filed all these relevant topics by end of September, and usually we have 90 days payment terms with the state, and we would assume that they are sticking to these payment terms.
Usually, we rather get it within 50, and that is a part of this total, of course, as always stated. Many thanks.
The next question is from Patrick Hummel at UBS. Please press star six to unmute and begin with your question.
Hey, good morning, everybody. Thanks for taking my questions. Both probably to Walter. The first one is with regards to the dividend. If I interpret what you stated correctly, there is some willingness on your end to look through those one-offs when it comes to determining the dividend for this year. Is it fair to say that there could be a situation in which, based on the reported EPS that you're going to have for the full year, the payout ratio might even be slightly above 40%? That's a very simple question. And the second one, which is maybe a little bit more complex to answer, with all the moving parts on the cost front, commodities, et cetera.
But now that you say you are bringing forward or expanding the fixed cost saves from your German overhead exercise, are you confident that going into next year, those savings will be larger than the inflationary pressures you are going to see on the input cost side, so that basically the entire cost block would become a positive bridge item next year? Thank you.
Good morning, Patrick, and thank you very much for your questions. First one on dividends, indeed, you are right, Walter. The second one, I think the general question of whether the expansion of our measures will lead to fixed cost savings that overcompensate any potential inflationary pressure, obviously also going to Walter, please.
Hello, Patrick. You heard it correctly, on the dividend side, that we are considering this extra impact of our portfolio and structural measures, and we think about it. We cannot, of course, mention anything, whether we have a different payout ratio or whatever, because that will be decided in February. But we have a clear understanding that we take it, of course, serious, and we have a dedicated thought about these one-offs, if you may say so. That is definitely. With respect to expanding fixed cost savings, we have our clear plan how to reduce our fixed costs going forward, and with these extra measures that should also pay into account that we have this further chance to realize fixed cost savings.
All that together should support our profit ambition of 3%-5% in 2028, and whatever helps in 2027 helps in 2027, and which numbers we give for 2027 is March. Many thanks, Patrick.
The next question is from Michael Tyndall at HSBC. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yep. Morning, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my questions. I guess there's a couple. Could you help me a little bit to understand, you seem very reticent to talk about the details of these actions, in terms of magnitude, the split between one side and the other. Could you just help us understand why that reticence? And then within that, I mean, is there any impact on suppliers with regards to the portfolio adjustment? Have you already had those negotiations? And then the second one is on the cash flow and the cash flow walk. There's a very big item under the umbrella of other, which was said to be reversals of the positives in Q2. I wonder if you can help us understand what happens to those in Q4. Do we get another reversal?
I mean, or are we done, it's just a timing issue, what happened in Q2 reversed in Q3, and we're back to a more even progress? Thanks.
Good morning, Mike, and thank you very much for your questions. I will hand both to Walter, with regards to the magnitude and also the level of information that we're disclosing on the contents of what we're doing. And then second, on the cash flow walk, understandably, some more information asked with regards to Q2 compared to Q3. Walter, please go ahead.
Hello, Mike. Well, you know how we deal with, at BMW, with details of actions. We rather deal with internally, discuss with our partners, rather than explaining something externally straight away. We are in the discussion phase internally, and once we have finalized everything, we will disclose. Currently, it is not the time to speak about externally. With respect to the cash flow walk, in Q3, there was this happening, what I mentioned already in Q2. In Q2, we had in this other extraordinary positive effect that is all about timing topics, and I mentioned that in Q2 already that this will reverse in Q3, and it did reverse in Q3. That means also in Q4, as I mentioned in my speech, we rather have a working capital element which is changing, and of course, the tariffs, which also was questioned before from Stuart.
These elements are the big ones in Q4. These others, I would not assume big differences as you saw in Q3 as well as in Q2, and these are definitely timing differentiations, especially if you speak about what is happening on the production side and what is happening on the sales side. There was a differentiation, especially in Q2 and Q3, which ended up in these big changes on the cash flow, rather not seen on the EBIT side. That is the whole story short. We are not focusing on the few quarters, as you do know, but we focus on a full-year free cash flow position. Hope that helps, Mike. Thank you.
The next question is from Horst Schneider at Bank of America. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yeah. Thank you for taking my questions too. The first one is for Milan, it is a more strategic question. Milan, when I was at the Paris Auto Show, I am still impressed by the Chinese premium offer, and I think the focus in Paris was on premium vehicles from the Chinese OEMs. In that context, I know that you are not yet offering LFP vehicles under the BMW brand in Europe, but every carmaker keeps stressing that the LFP battery vehicles are more profitable. When I look at China, you offer the LFP version CNY 30,000 below basically the NMC battery version. Would not that also be an option for Europe to offer maybe LFP battery versions under the BMW brand in order to make the product even more affordable, but at the same time, you could maybe also increase your profits per vehicle?
So maybe a more strategic comment on that would be appreciated. Maybe a question for Walter that is on, a simple question, is basically on residual values. Audi has brought that up that the ICE residual values, they start weakening. It is a risk going forward, they say, that they need to depreciate something. I think you were more confident at the CMD about that item. Has anything changed? That is a simple question. Thank you.
Good morning, Horst, and thank you for your two questions. Definitely the right allocation with regards to China or your impression of Chinese premium offers in Paris and the question on LFP. I will hand that to Milan first, and then afterwards, Walter will make a statement on our position on EVs right now. Milan, please.
Good morning, Horst. Concerning your question towards the battery technologies we are using, well, as you know, with Neue Klasse, we are starting with the NMC technology and the cylindric batteries, and this technology is now superior in the market. We see that our range we can offer with the iX3 and the i3 are deeply impressing also in China, and that is why we start on that level. At the same time, and you are right, the LFP technology offers a different cost structure, but also different range. So we will add the LFP technology in our vehicles, but we will be very specific in which vehicle and for which purpose. And so it will come, but it will not be a generic exchange or a generic offer in all segments.
Hello, Horst. Yeah, that is right. We also see a slight deterioration on the ICE residual values, but we expected that to happen. We always mentioned also at the CMD that this will come down and we will have less positive results than in previous years. That is crystal clear. On the other side, we shouldn't forget that on the EV side, the returners have also a better performance than six months ago. So since February, we recognized that the EV residual value position is performing better, and this is also contributing then, of course. And of course, everything is depending on the region. So even in the U.S., we see a positive used car price trend across ICE and EVs, and you have different ones in the U.K. as well as in Germany.
But in principle, on the world, ICE is coming slightly down, and EV is stabilizing, and in some markets, even elevating positively.
The next question is from Philippe Houchois at Jefferies International. Please press star six to unmute and begin with your question. Please press star six to unmute and begin with your question. We will move on to Harald Hendrikse at Citi. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yeah, morning, everyone. Thanks so much for taking my questions. Two quick questions, really. One, on China, back to China, I'm sorry. But can we just talk a little bit more about the profitability of the iX3 in China? Clearly, you've priced it incredibly competitively. Obviously, that significantly improves the chances for the stabilization of the China business, which what you're talking about. But we haven't really talked so much about the profitability, both of the iX3 in China relative to the position in Europe. And secondly, you're not replacing old generation BEVs in China. So what does the iX3 do to the profitability of the China business overall? Is it dilutive over there as it has been in the past in Europe? And then the second question, firstly, congratulations on the acceleration.
Certainly my takeaway from the CMD was that I would have liked you to have been more ambitious in terms of some of the restructuring and stuff like that. So I'm very happy to see what you did yesterday. But in terms of ICE, considering the very, very fast take-up now of BEV in Europe, do we need to think about what your overall capacity is in Europe for ICE? ICE demand in Europe is going to come down pretty sharply now over the next couple of years, assuming BEV continues its current growth path. And doesn't that mean that the whole industry, including BMW, will have to think again about European and maybe specifically very expensive German ICE capacity? Thank you very much.
Good morning, Harald. Two questions. Thank you very much. First one with regards to profitability of the iX3 in China. I will pass that to Walter, and then Milan will round it up with a statement on your question on ICE with regards to capacity in European plants. Walter, please.
Hello, Harald. Many thanks for the credits we received for our action yesterday. As we started in the discussion at the Capital Markets Day that things are coming soon, six weeks later should be still categorized as soon. As I mentioned in the beginning, this is one milestone, and I think that is a good milestone on our journey. Now, with respect to model profitabilities, we never disclose those ones. We should just think about in China, as you started with the iX3, which is going to be launched and sold from in 10 days, more or less. We are not just coming with the iX3. In January, we present already our i3. We present then in April, I think, in Q2, early Q2, our iX5. The feedback we receive is still very positive, even in the media. The social media side is also good.
With respect to the ICE in Europe, should I move on, or do you want to give some hints, Milan? We are positive in China. That's the key message, Harald. Thanks again for the credits which we have taken. Thank you.
Thank you, Walter, and thanks, Harald, for the question. Concerning the ICE, I mean, as you know, we are sticking to our technology open approach. Looking onto the last one or two years, you can see that this strategy is very robust. The U.S. is still dominant on the ICEs, and the BEV development is lower than expected. In China, we see a faster development. In Europe, it's not one market. In Europe, we have a very diverse regional markets, and we see right now that the BEV increase is surprisingly good. We have prepared ourself with our technologies and our plants. Each of our plants in Europe can run both technologies, ICEs and fully electric cars, and that's why we will follow the market. We don't have the need to change anything on our capacities of our plants. We are very flexible on that one.
With the new plant in Debrecen, we are coming now with the Neue Klasse, which again, as I said, is on three shifts. So a very robust setup we have here, and that's why we don't see any need for any changes on that side.
We will now go back to Philippe Houchois from Jefferies International. Please press star six to unmute and begin with your question. The final question is from Anthony Dick at ODDO BHF. Please unmute yourself and begin with your question.
Yes. Hi, can you hear me?
I can hear you well, Anthony. Good morning.
Perfect. Thanks. Good morning, and thanks for taking the questions. I had two. The first one is on the cash flow side. I understand you don't want to give too many details about 2027, but then maybe we can talk about 2026, and specifically relating to the realignment and restructuring. Could you tell us what part of that is actually cash? So for the first realignment of, I think it's about EUR 1.3 billion, EUR 1.4 billion, I'm assuming that's all cash. But for the second realignment that you've just announced, what part of that extra EUR 1.3 billion, EUR 1.4 billion is actually cash? And when is that being cashed out? Is that all in 2027, or is that going to be spread out over a couple of years? That's the first question. The second question is on the iX3 in China. You talked a little bit about the positive momentum you're seeing there.
We saw also some press reports a couple of months ago about some initial encouraging momentum. Could you tell us a bit more about how that initial order momentum on the soft orders is translating into and converting into actual firm orders? And if you could talk about the order figure in general for the iX3 in China, which is something a lot of Chinese OEMs do. Just wondering if you could provide a bit more color into that. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your questions, Anthony. The first one with regards to cash flow, I will hand that to Walter Mertl. Let me allow to briefly elaborate on your second question. I presume it was about the iX3. Yes, we've announced an i3 also for China, but the iX3, we have chosen not to comment on the positive media reports that have been out there. The only statement that we've made is that obviously orders in China, or reservations, I think is a better word, in China, do not have the same level in the sense of how strict they are and meaning a mandatory payment obligation as an order has in Europe. So please accept that we will still not comment. But as Milan earlier mentioned in the media call, we are very much looking forward to the launch of the iX3 at the end of this month.
So we're quite positive, and we've also seen this reassuring news on the car. And with that, over to you, Walter, with regards to cash flow in 2026.
Hello, Anthony. With respect to the cash flow 2026, the key element is working capital reversal and the tariffs. That is the key focus. All these extra elements on our restructuring, this further 1.25, ending up with around 2.5 EBIT points for the full year. This one I am not splitting down. Some of those ones, of course, will be rather an EBIT action. Hardly anything will be a cash action this year. About the effects for the cash reflected in 2027, there we have time in March to speak about which impacts we utilize in the free cash flow 2027 based on our original restructuring program or by our second package. Then there is the right time to speak about it. Thank you, Anthony.
Now I've just received the information directly from Philippe, who, for whatever reason, was not able technically to ask his question on the stream here. So Philippe's question read out by me now is, "We saw positive surprises across the industry in FICO returns, BMW just in line. Any non-recurring issue we should consider now and in 2027 besides ICE residuals, which you had already anticipated?" Walter, this goes to you with many greetings from Philippe.
Yeah, many thanks, Philippe. Sorry that you had technical issues. But if we have a look for our competitors, which I shouldn't have so much speak about, but maybe we have a look on the previous years, how their performance have been whilst they're returning step by step back into the right level they should have been in my eyes in the past. We are contributing to the right levels. Of course, everyone is speaking about interest elevations, but I think some are catching up rather than we are not stabilizing. We are stable. We have a good performance with our ecosystem as we present, and maybe others just catching up. I would say that is my understanding of the competition at financial services. Many thanks. All the best.
Thank you very much, Walter. We are now at the end of our Q&A session. Thank you to all of you out there for your questions and for making the time to participate, and also especially my thanks to you, Milan and Walter, for sharing your insights. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to our friendly investor relations team. This concludes the call. We wish you a great remainder of the day. All the best from Munich.