Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Brenntag AG Q1 2014 results conference call. At our customers' request, this conference will be recorded. As a reminder, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. If any participant has difficulties hearing the conference, please press * key followed by zero on your telephone for operator assistance. May I now hand you over to Mr. Steven Holland, who will lead you through this conference. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you very much for dialing in for our review of Q1 2014 earnings. I'm on the phone today together with Georg Müller, our CFO. As always, we'll be happy to answer your questions after the presentation. First of all, some words on the macroeconomy. The environment in Europe shows a clear growth momentum. The North American environment is a positive position, but with negative impact of this caused by extremely hard winter, causing some challenging operating conditions. In contrast to the developed world, economic developments in emerging markets is weaker. In this mixed environment, Brenntag Group was able to grow gross profits and operating EBITDA on a constant FX basis. Gross profit grew by 4.4%. The operating EBITDA in Q1 2014 accounts to €164 million. This represents an increase of 2.8% on a constant FX basis.
The relatively strong euro led to some headwind in translating our results from non-euro countries. The difference between our EBITDA growth rate as the respective risk of -4.4% compared to a growth of 2.8% at constant FX rates indicates the importance of this effect. We were pleased to announce the signing of the Gafor acquisition in Brazil, which adds critical mass to our presence in this country. We have successfully executed an amendment for our syndicated loan facility, which is by far the most important part of our financing structure. We now go to page five and look at our operating highlights. We show this slide how this translates into a full set of numbers. Gross profit total, €483.6 million, 4.4% above previous year's Q1 on an FX adjusted basis. The operating EBITDA totals €164 million growing by 2.8%.
The EBITDA from GP conversion ratio of 33.9% is not fully on last year's level of prior year. Our free cash flow for Q1 2014 was €75.7 million, which is 7% up above on last year's Q1. In terms of the acquisition of Gafor Distribuidora, we were delighted we could sign an agreement to acquire the Brazilian distributor Gafor in the first quarter of 2014. The transaction was closed in April so that we will consolidate Gafor from the second quarter 2014 onwards. In 2013, Gafor realized sales of about $70 million and an EBITDA of more than $7 million. With this acquisition, we significantly expand our position in Brazil, the most important chemical distribution market in Latin America. The acquisition clearly helps us to achieve critical mass together with our existing operation in the country.
As Brenntag's and Gafor's product lines are highly complementary with existing industry customer base, this is a great fit for us. I might now hand over to Georg.
Good afternoon, everybody. Some more details on our income statement on page eight. As Steve already mentioned, the gross profit totaled EUR 483 million. This absolute figure translates into a 4.4% FX adjusted increase over previous years. Relevant to note from our perspective that all regions contributed to the growth of gross profit. Operating EBITDA for the first quarter totaled EUR 164 million. That represents an FX adjusted increase of 2.8%. If you look at the conversion ratio, the EBITDA to gross profit conversion came in at 33.9%. It is slightly below the 34.5% conversion ratio we realized a year ago in the first quarter 2013. The reduction in conversion is due to the weather impact in North America and to a degree, due to the weaker business development in the emerging markets.
Moving to the income statement below EBITDA, depreciation for the quarter amounted to EUR 24 million and amortization, which is mainly customer-based amortization from acquisition, amounted to EUR 8.8 million. The financial result is a net expense of EUR 22.2 million. That is lower than last year's expense of EUR 24.5 million. Overall, earnings before taxes amounted to EUR 109 million. That is 2.8% ahead of previous year. We record a tax rate of 33.9%. That is in line with the level of 34%-35% that we usually indicate. Earnings per share is at EUR 1.40 or at EUR 1.53 if you exclude the amortization and the relatively marginal effect on the Songjung liability. We would move further through the presentation. I would skip the page on operating cash flow. I think I will also skip the page on investing and financing cash flow as well as the balance sheet page.
I would start talking again on page 13, which is the balance sheet and leverage page. The net debt decreased during the quarter by EUR 19 million to EUR 1,322 million at the end of the quarter. The slight decrease in net debt is mainly driven by the cash flow generation in the first quarter. The group's leverage remained at 1.9 times. That is below the 2.1 times that we achieved a year ago. Let's skip to the next page and talk about our refinancing transaction on page 15. At the end of March, we successfully executed an amendment of our syndicated loan facility. We have further improved the maturity profile of our debt and achieved additional improvements. The syndicated loan, which we amended and extended, is by far the most important part of our financing structure.
It accounts for roughly two-thirds of our gross debt. The new maturity is now five years out in March 2019. Not only have we extended the maturity, we have also managed to reduce interest margins significantly, and that will lead to an annual reduction of interest expenses by at least EUR 6 million. The transaction had a substantial oversubscription, and we were able to increase the mainly unused revolving credit facility by EUR 100 million to now EUR 600 million. The transaction does clearly reflect our continued positive development as well as our excellent reputation also on the debt markets. On the next page, working capital. Trade working capital amounted to EUR 1,112 million at the end of the quarter, and the year-to-date working capital turnover remained almost unchanged at 9.0 times.
Cash flow generation on page 17. Free cash flow generation. The first quarter of 2014 delivered a free cash flow of EUR 75 million, and that is clearly up against the EUR 70 million we achieved in the first quarter of 2013. The increase in free cash flow was mainly driven by a lower outflow for working capital in this quarter compared to prior year's quarter. That ends the presentation already. Back to Steve for a discussion of the segments.
Thank you, Georg. I want to walk you through the development of the segments for the first quarter 2014, which shows a somewhat mixed picture. In Europe, operating gross profit increased by 5.4% on an FX-adjusted basis. The operating EBITDA increased by a strong 10.2%. We are highly satisfied with the European development, which not only reflects the improved macroeconomic environment but also the results of efficiency measures successively introduced during the challenging macroeconomic environments in previous years. In North America, Brenntag's North American development in the first quarter was clearly positive. However, the region was adversely affected by extremely hard winter in January and February, leading to lower operational efficiency and correspondingly a lower conversion rate of EBITDA to GP.
The conversion rate of 37.3% for the first quarter compares to an average rate for the full year of 42.7%, resulting in an EBITDA impact from around about EUR 9 million in Q1. As a result of operating gross profit in North America, it grew by on an FX-adjusted basis of 6.7% and operating EBITDA increased by 1.6%. Latin America. Our results in Latin America were heavily influenced by the situation in Venezuela. We are reporting a negative 4.6% decline in FX-adjusted gross profits. Latin America without Venezuela has grown operating gross for profit by about 3%. The EBITDA impact was even higher. The operating EBITDA declined by minus 8.5% on a constant currency basis. However, without Venezuela, the rest of the region was able to grow operating EBITDA by about 14% against prior year's Q1. These numbers demonstrate that the underlying Latin American business without Venezuela is trending positively.
In terms of Asia-Pacific, here a weaker performance with a 2.1% decline in operating Gross Profit. This unsatisfying development was partly due to a cooling of the economy in China and the continuing difficulty from difficult political situation in Thailand, which is paralyzing demand. The weak Gross Profit development results in an operating EBITDA, which decreased by 30%. However, this is not only attributable to the GP developments but also it reflects high cost base as we have intentionally upgraded our infrastructure and management capabilities in the region to be able to generate and digest future growth. Let me reiterate our Group's operating Gross Profit growth for the Q1 2014 amounted to 4.5%, and for operating EBITDA, it grew by 2.8%. Let me come on to the outlook for the full year. We continue to have a positive view for 2014.
We expect ongoing macroeconomic growth at a moderate pace and certainly with differentiation between the major economies. This is confirmed by the positive developments in Q1, and we expect to continue to benefit from better macroeconomic environments in Europe. In North America, we also expect to benefit from an ongoing economic recovery, especially as the adverse winter conditions were a temporary distortion, not affecting the underlying economic fundamentals. In Latin America, we expect that we will continue to see a divided picture for the rest of the year with an ongoing standstill in Venezuela, but clearly growth for the rest of the region. As to Asia-Pacific, we expect to see growth on a full-year basis due to a combination of a weak Q1 but more significant growth for the rest of the year. For Thailand, we do not expect short-term improvement of the overall economic environment. Moving on.
As mentioned previously, we plan to see some capital expenditure increases this year by around about EUR 10 million. This is appropriate to support the growth of our Group. Finally, the free cash flow is expected to be meaningfully higher than 2013 based on the different elements mentioned above. Let me address the current trading environment. Our Gross Profit per working day grew by 3.8% in January, 2.5% in February, 4.4% in March, and 5.3% in April. In closing, we remain fully convinced of the business model and the structural growth opportunities. On top, we see momentum in the macroeconomic environment. We are therefore confident that the Group will grow all its relevant earning parameters in 2014 on an FX-adjusted basis. Brenntag remains very well positioned to capture new growth in both established and emerging markets.
As in previous years, we plan to give quantitative guidance on our full year 2014 after the Q2 results. We're happy to answer any questions.
Okay, thank you very much. We will now begin our question and answer session. If you have a question for our speakers, please dial 01 on your telephone keypad now to enter the queue. Once your name has been announced, you can ask a question. If you find your question is answered before it's your turn to speak, you can dial 02 to cancel your question. If you're using speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selection. That is zero one to ask a question. One moment, please. Thank you. We have a first question from Andy Chu. Your question, please.
Good afternoon, Steve, Georg. A few questions from me. Steve, could you give us those growth rates, gross profit per working day, FX adjusted on an organic basis? I think you said that April was 5.3, which I guess will be an organic number, but for March, it would be helpful if we could have an organic number for March, please.
Yeah, Georg's got the numbers there.
Yeah. Andy, at what point in time you bring us into a position where we actually want to hear the information up front. For now, the January as reported gross profit per working day FX adjusted is 3.8. As we mentioned, the organic is 2.7. The February reported is 2.5 and the organic 1.3. March is 4.4, and organic 3.3. April was 5.3. It's not fully organic due to the Brazilian acquisition. It's 4.1 on an organic basis.
Okay. Thank you. On Asia Pacific, you're sort of down 30% in Q1. You're talking about Thailand not recovering, and I think that's probably about 12.5, 15% of Asia Pacific. What gives you the confidence, Steve, at this point, that you can actually beat on a full year basis, last year's EBITDA number, please?
Yeah. If you took it the region as a whole, clearly it's one of our smaller regions and both Latin America and Asia Pacific struggle with the fact that they are quite small regions and multi-country based. If you have one or two countries which are not doing too well, it does affect the group quite widely in terms of that particular region. I think where we're more positive is that although Thailand looks to be politically not likely to change too much in the immediate future, we believe that ultimately the Chinese business is going to show some growth in 2014 above last year. We expect our Australian business to be more positive during the balance of the year as well.
If you take the mix of the various countries, even for example, Vietnam, Malaysia, all these countries are positively contributing to the region as a whole. Our estimation is that we will see overall growth for the year.
Andy, one more point. I'm not sure if I heard your estimate correctly that you think Thailand to be 10 or 15% of Asia. Actually, it's bigger. It's 20%-25% of Asia. In addition to all the operational items that Steve mentioned, don't forget that towards the end of the year, later in the year, we get a base effect because Thailand basically didn't get weak Q1 this year. It got weak over the second half of last year already.
That's helpful. In terms of Europe, which is clearly continuing to accelerate and clearly doing very well. I understand it's sort of pretty broad-based recovery, but are you able to just give us a bit of flavor around some of the geographies, please, in terms of where the strengths are, including countries such as France, which have been problematic historically. Thank you.
Yeah, sure. Well, it is a broad-based good performance in Europe. Indeed, I'm happy to report that France is contributing to that performance, having had really a couple of years of being in the doldrums. So we were pleased with the overall performance of our French operation in the first quarter. It's also fair to say that the Southern European economies, which have been weak generally, are also contributing positively to the European region as a whole. We see a far more balanced approach, actually, in terms of right across the region. Both the Northern Europeans, the U.K., and Germany are in good positions and growing. What we don't have is what we've had over the last two or three years, where there's been a general dragging down by Southern Europe and France.
This is now no longer the case, we see a lot of that positively being delivered in the results that you see today.
Just finally on Venezuela, obviously, the numbers you talk about in LatAm, Steve, ex Venezuela look pretty good. I guess the natural thing to ask is are you going to stay in Venezuela? Can you easily exit Venezuela? What's the position on Venezuela, please?
Well, it is a very volatile situation in Venezuela, we are actually reviewing our options for the country. It clearly would be inappropriate to say what we're doing at the moment because I think that's not been decided. Albeit it is a country which has, in the past, had provided some good results. I think we have to be careful and contrast operating EBITDA versus the financial result relative to the various risks on currency and what have you, conversion. It does question whether the further investment in that country is merited. We are looking at it. We've not decided to do anything significant as far as Venezuela is concerned at this stage. We are but monitoring the situation closely.
Great. Thanks very much.
Okay, the next question comes from Rory McKenzie from UBS. Your question please.
Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. It's Rory McKenzie from UBS. Just following up on Andy's question on emerging markets and the volatility. Can you comment on the exact nature of the disruption to your businesses, particularly in those two hardest countries, Venezuela and Thailand? You mentioned that the instability in Thailand was strangling demand, for example. If there's a bit more color on that would be useful. Thank you.
I think as far as Thailand is concerned, most people will be aware that there's been significant protests in Thailand for quite some time and political unrest. That unfortunately follows on from a fairly damaging economic blow, which they had with flooding in previous years. The way we look at it, we look at some of the multinationals that are in Thailand at the moment are not reinvesting. Indeed, one or two multinationals are exiting Thailand as being a base for manufacturing. Some of the fundamental, if you like, foundations for the Thai economy are being eroded by the current political instability. This is, as Georg said, is actually quite an important region for us in terms of 20%-25% of EBITDA contribution. We are balancing that off by better performances in other parts of the region.
Thailand for us in the last two, three years has been quite a difficult market because of its importance and the political situation that's developed there. As far as Venezuela is concerned, again, that's politics to a large extent. Although all you investors involved in Venezuela will realize there's some pretty big challenges in terms of the current currency devaluations and the ability to convert the national currency into dollars, et cetera. There's a whole raft of issues around in that. Although strangely, we did actually see some positive movement in Venezuela very recently in terms of say converting cash from national currency into dollars. At this stage, we would say we're looking at that closely, but there's nothing been decided as yet.
Within Venezuela, are you facing any supply chain issues or is it just, I guess customer behavior and customer demand that's being impacted by the instability?
Yes, Georg, Rory. It's to a degree our deliberate decision. By far most of what we sell in Venezuela to local customers is imported from the U.S. and other countries into Venezuela and then sold locally. It obviously gives us a challenge that we have to transfer the money that customers pay in Venezuela outside the country to pay the outside the country supplier as well as to repatriate profits. Both the repatriation of profits as well as transferring money outside Venezuela to pay suppliers has become more and more difficult due to political restrictions, due to transfer restrictions over time. We just basically decided that under these circumstances we should significantly reduce our sales in Venezuela.
Okay. That makes sense. Thank you. Just turning to North America. Can you go into more detail on that estimated 9 million impact? Are they just, I guess, non-recurring distribution costs that you had to invest to support growth within the harsh winter? Will they just drop out in Q2 or how else should we think about that 9 million impact for Q1?
Yeah. It is actually quite a difficult number to quantify in so far as it's multilayered when it comes to the effects of weather. I think probably the biggest cost element is really in the physical distribution of products where essentially we had I think between 60 and 70 days of where we actually had most of our sites closed, i.e. trucks not even leaving the site. Obviously with several cost base associated with that and quite a number of deliveries being made to customers where the customers were not even able to open. It is extremely difficult one to nail down in terms of the individual cost line development. I would say transport and distribution is the primary driver in terms of the inefficiency of that number.
Okay. Therefore weather improvements should drop out for the next quarter?
Yeah, you should certainly see an improvement. Well, we will see an improvement as far as the utilization of transport in that case for sure.
Okay, great. That makes sense. Thank you.
The next question is coming in from Markus Mayer. Your question please.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. Three questions as well. First of all I can again come back to the winter effect in this. This nine million EUR EBITDA impact
Are they only coming from the higher logistics costs or are there others impacting there as well? Do you expect that there was also a delay of business into Q2 to the winter, or this is basically then an effect which was on one-off in Q1, has no effect then on Q2 as well. Secondly then again, come back to Asia. Besides Thailand, how do you see the growth in China and the rest of Asia? Because we hear from several chemical companies that they see quite a good growth in these kind of markets. Do you see this growth as well? Lastly, with this volume growth you see in Europe, which is quite healthy and should hopefully go on. Do you ever think that this is triggering then price increases for chemicals and would then this also help you to increase your conversion ratio?
There's a few questions there. I'll take the last one first. In terms of chemical pricing, clearly, any increase in demand is going to put the chemical manufacturing sector under a little bit more strain in terms of clearly meeting that demand. I think we have to be very careful and measured about this because those that are old like me will remember back to 2008, 2009 position, where there was quite a lot of capacity was taken out of the system due to dropping overall volumes worldwide. It remains to be seen whether or not we have an upturn in the European and North American markets, which are going to push capacities to the point where there will be significant price increases. I don't think we're there yet.
It remains to be seen, we'll look towards the back end of this year as to whether that is putting some pressure on pricing. I don't really see that pricing has been particularly an issue for us as we have a very strong pass-through model on pricing. For us, as far as Europe is concerned, operational leverage is really what we're looking for here. We worked very hard to increase efficiency during the very difficult trading conditions Europe we've had the last two years. We don't expect to see a significant lift in operating cost with the increased demand that we're experiencing. That should improve the conversion factors.
Okay.
Georg. You had the additional question on the sub-regional picture in Asia, we pointed out Thailand because Thailand has the most significant reduction in earnings within the region, it is a significant piece of our business in Asia Pacific, even though limited in relevance on a group-wide level. Where we see growth in Asia, it's more from the other Southeast Asian countries. Countries like Vietnam and countries surrounding Singapore are generally growing currently in our business. China is not. With respect to the U.S. winter effect, the winter effect is mainly a logistic cost effect, it's just a pretty basic effect. You have to pay for overtime because people have to do snow cleaning exercises before the site actually becomes operational. You have truck trips that take longer than they usually take, which makes you pay overtime.
Occasionally, you go to a customer site, the customer site is closed. You can't drop the product, you have to go again tomorrow, which causes additional costs. Do you lose business? To a degree, you also might lose a few orders, from our perspective, that's more a shift from one day to another or one week to another. I would not point to a significant shift from Q1 to Q2. Whatever shift there has been was probably from January and February to March. The catch-up was there already.
Okay, perfect. Thanks.
The next question comes from Stephanie Bothwell from HSBC. The line is open now.
Yes, thanks for taking my questions. I have two questions. Firstly, on Venezuela again, if I translated correctly, the impact of Venezuela is something like EUR three million in EBITDA, which you gave us. Does this mean that you are not recording any positive EBITDA for Venezuela in Q1 anymore and therefore this is the bottom, or can the impact in Venezuela get the next few quarters also a bit bigger? And then a second question on the impact from the changes in the foreign currencies, FX impact. Is there also an impact on the margin because you have some time lag maybe before you can pass on price changes which are based on different currency development? Is this also impacting the margin or would you say there's no impact from this on the margin?
Yeah, I'll take the easier scope. The Venezuela impact, Venezuela was EBITDA breakeven first quarter of this year, so around zero. Last year's EBITDA in Q1 was not fully the figure you had in mind. It was €2.5 million. A reduction from a positive €2.5 million to zero. I would say this is the bottom. Of course, in theory, you can have a business with negative EBITDA, but it rarely happens in our business. It's nothing which I would envision going forward. I would more see that as that's the bottom for Venezuela.
You're still making sales in Venezuela?
As mentioned on an earlier question, most of the product in Venezuela is imported, and we don't import any longer. There is a small fraction of product which is locally sourced and sold, and that continues for the time being.
Okay.
That's just sufficient to pay for our costs in Venezuela, basically.
On the FX effect, yes, the translational impact is there from the strengthening of the euro or mainly the weakening of the dollar. Margin effects, there are no meaningful margin effects in our business. By far, most of the product is sourced and sold in the same currency environment. Even where we interchange currencies from dollar to euro or the other way around, or emerging market currencies, the cycle is so quickly that you really don't have any meaningful impact.
Okay, great. Thanks.
There is a next question from Suhasini Varanasi from Goldman Sachs. Your question, please.
Hi, it's Charles Wilson from Goldman Sachs here. Two questions, please. One, your very strong performance in Europe this quarter. Are there any sort of one-off benefits, such as a comp effect? Because I think I remember was Q1 tougher last year due to less working days. If there's anything there you want to highlight. Secondly, the weather in North America. I can see how it impacts your costs. Do you think it impacted your gross profits during the quarter?
Well, just in terms of coming to Europe, there's no significant sort of non-recurring events in the quarter which would support the performance. I think it's very much broad-based improvement across the region. I'm not sure, maybe a day extra, working day extra, I'm not entirely sure whether that's the case. No, there's nothing significant. It's a genuinely good result. I think as far as North America is concerned, I don't really see.
I think the chart is clear. I would think the weather impact is predominantly an efficiency and therefore cost impact. I wouldn't see any meaningful gross profit impact. It's mainly shifting business between weeks or months. Yes, there might be the occasional order lost that the customer just didn't place due to weather conditions. It's very hard to quantify. The principle exists, but it is tiny from our perspective.
Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.
For the moment, there is a last question coming in from Robert Plant from J.P. Morgan. Your line is open now. Thank you.
Hi, Steve. Hi, Georg Müller. You've completed the Gafor acquisition. I remember at the time of the Q4 conference call, you said that the relatively low acquisition spending last year was more a matter of timing. Quite a few deals could slip into 2014. We've had one of them. Are you still confident that you could probably spend above average rates on acquisitions this year? Thank you.
Yeah, we're still guiding the EUR 200 million-EUR 250 million as has been our spend for the year. We certainly expect to deliver that. Indeed, as you may have gathered, there are a number of transactions which are under due diligence at the moment. I don't see any very significant overspend of our current guidance on acquisitions.
Thanks, Steve.
There is another last question coming in from Simon Metanote from Bernstein. Your question, please.
Yes. Good afternoon. I've got two quick questions. First of all, can you give us an update on your specialty business in Europe and the impact that it might have had in Q1? Also, as a final point, just to check, did you say that you are expecting to grow your EBITDA in Asia Pacific this year on a constant currency basis, please?
Yeah. Last question. Yes, we do expect to grow EBITDA in Asia on a constant currency basis this year. As far as specialty chemicals are concerned, actually, very interesting you should highlight that because what we have seen is, certainly in the first quarter, is probably an increased contribution on specialty chemicals across the European segment. We do focus on very specific industries, and they previously have been broadly in line with the industrial chemicals range of products. We saw a pickup in specialty chemicals in the first quarter in the industries that we focus upon.
Are you able to quantify that impact on Q1? As I understand, you also put more emphasis on this business in Q1.
Yeah. I wouldn't say we put more emphasis on nothing, generally as a strategy. Certainly Brenntag as a strategy is developing its specialty chemicals range of products, and we are investing in resources to provide customers and manufacturers with those services. I think the ratio of specialty chemical sales to industrial chemical sales are still broadly the same. We do see increased sales in specialty chemicals on a wider range basis. I don't want to give you an idea there's been some seismic shift towards specialties. There clearly hasn't been. We see the signs or green lights in the direction of expanding our share of that particular type of range.
Thank you.
There is another question from Andy Chu. Your question, please.
Thank you. Just a couple of quick follow-ups. In terms of your two largest geographies, Europe and North America, obviously North America has some acquisition impact and some weather disruption. Out of the two regions, which region is actually growing at the fastest run rate of growth at the gross profit level, please? Secondly, on the cash flow, there's some improvement in cash flow, Georg, you alluded to that in your presentation as to working capital being the driver of that cash flow improvement. It just seems to me to be a little bit counterintuitive that the business is growing and the cash flow delta is shrinking. I wondered if you could just help me on that point, please. Thank you.
Andy, just on your gross margin growth question, we see Europe as being the lead in the two biggest regions.
To the working capital. First of all, working capital management and cash flow management is one of the strong focuses we set within the group. We do have an outflow of liquidity. We do see growth in working capital in that sense, Andy, we don't feel it to be counterintuitive. The business is growing and the working capital is growing. Yes, the working capital is growing to a lower degree than previous years. We would say it's reflective for our management focus, it also reflective to the fact that overall, the price development in chemicals is a relatively modest price development. As you know, which is not relevant for our earnings, but it has a relevance for working capital.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Okay, there are no further questions. Therefore, ladies and gentlemen, if you'd like to ask a question, please press 01 on your telephone keypad now. There are no further questions.
Okay. Well, thank you very much indeed. Thank you all for attending the call and your questions. At that point, we'll end the call. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Bye now.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attendance. This call has been concluded. You may now disconnect.