Good morning, everybody, and welcome to BayWa's conference call on the results of the third quarter, 2023. With me on the call today are Mr. Pöllinger, CEO, and Mr. Helber, BayWa CFO, and my colleagues from the financial and IR department. As usual, Mr. Pöllinger will comment on the market and business development of each business unit, and Mr. Helber will provide you with further details of BayWa Group key financial figures in the first nine months of 2023, compared with the previous year period. After that, we will open the Q&A session. I also would like to remind you that you can download all relevant documents for this call from our IR website, in case you have not received it by mail this morning, and that this call will be recorded and published on our BayWa website. I hand over now to Mr. Pöllinger.Mayer
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today and for your interest in BayWa AG. I'm very glad to bring you a very strong performance in the third quarter. Our diversified business model has once again proven itself and contributed significantly to achieving an above average operating result, despite the difficult market situation. However, the high interest rates remain a challenge, the effects of which we must take even more into account in our trading strategy and in our inventory management. Please follow me on slide 4 for the revenue and the EBIT, of course, and please be reminded that the comparison with the previous year, 2022, is probably not the right thing to do. I wouldn't look too closely on that one because it was an extraordinarily good year, as you all know.
The revenue and earnings determined by strong decline in commodity prices compared to the previous year, as I just mentioned. We see a quarter, third quarter result of EUR 214.6 million EBIT, which is, a very good, result looking into the past, as we will do on the next slide. And, probably the, the most important information today is that we, as management at BayWa, me and my team, we strongly confirm our EBIT target in 2023 of, EUR 320–370 million . Turn over to page five. This is what I just mentioned. This is now standalone, the third quarter. It is, as you all know, a quarter, which we, normally see the harvest and, we don't have the, results, especially from the renewable energy business.
So we didn't sell any big project in this quarter. So, this quarter reflects the performance, I'd say, of the AG, of the tech, of the agri, equipment, part of the strong Cefetra part and, not so much of the renewable energy part. We will see a huge contribution to the EBIT and the EBT of the renewable energy part in the last quarter. As you following our company for a longer period already know, the last quarter is always the most important quarter.
On page 6, you find the EBIT compared to the years of 2019, 2020, and 2021, and you see it's a very good operational performance, which we, as I mentioned before, need to cover the high interest rates, which Andreas Helber will talk about a bit later. Now, just follow me into our operational business, turn to page 9, starting with the renewable energy market. Here you see the price development of the solar panel, which is a very, well, it's actually a very good development for our project business, for our big solar parks. It's not a good development for our solar trade business and the whole market for the sale for our project selling our solar trade business, which I will come to a bit later.
Following me on the next slide, slide 10, you see that the renewable energy business is still stronger than in the year 2021, even though we didn't sell projects up to now. But the demand, and especially of the solar panels and especially the IPP and the trading of our energy is a strong contributor to our EBIT in the renewable energy sector, and of which we are very happy. Now, let me just highlight a bit on our solar trade business entity, which we are willing to sell. Unfortunately, the market environment, as you all know, the overproduction of the panels are in the Chinese market is not very favorable for selling this business in Q4 and Q1, 2024.
So, we will take ourselves a bit more time for selling this business. Be assured that we will sell this business in the 2024 year to come, because as we mentioned before, we have to look at our portfolio very closely, and we decided that we will sell this business. There is interest, there are investors who are strongly interested in our business, but to be very honest with you, the price range we assumed and we have calculated is not reflected in the market. And so we will take ourselves a little bit more time and restart the whole process beginning next year. Looking at the next slide, slide number 12, you see our, let's say, conventional energy business. I'm very happy with the performance in this one.
We see a strong performance in our charging business. As you know, we have the BayWa Mobility Solutions company, a company who provides and builds charging stations for electric vehicle. You are all familiar with the situation of the or the market situation of the electric vehicles. We have about 1.8 million electric vehicles in Germany today, and it's gonna be up to 15 million in 2030, sorry. So, this is a huge market to come. This is a huge market, which we will play a big part in that one.
We just won the so-called Deutschlandnetz, in which we will build new charging station in all over Germany, and it will provide a good amount of money to our EBIT in the energy segment, and it's gonna be a good future business. Looking on the next slide, the agricultural business. As you all know, the market development, especially the price trend of wheat and rapeseed, the prices fall dramatically from the higher peak in 2022. And our trading teams of Cefetra, of Grainli, and in Munich as well, in Vienna, managed very successfully to deal with this falling prices. And within the strong execution of our contracts, I'm very happy with the margin these teams contributed to our earnings.
The market development of the agricultural product, as you all know, you're familiar with the global grain balance, and you see that the production and consumption balance out. So we see a short supply despite our higher output, which means good margin for our business and a good future for this, especially for our trading business ahead. On the next slide, slide 16, you see the input business, the crop protection fertilizer. And as I've already mentioned, the commodity prices have fallen, and even though the fertilizer prices, of course, but our team of crop protection and fertilizer managed very well to get out the stocks before the prices fall.
So we see a very good result compared not to last year, but to the previous years in the fertilizer and crop protection business in the first three quarters. On the other, on the right side of the page 16, you see the, our global produce, our fruit business. And, this is what I meant, in, my beginning when I was talking about the diversified business. Bear in mind that, we have got two large business units. It's, global produce, which has seen this cyclone in, New Zealand and therefore doesn't provide any, or, or not the, the amount of EBIT we, we have budgeted, as well as the building material business, which everyone knows it. In Germany, the market is, quite down, to be honest.
These two big parts of the company, these two great business units, do not contribute as they should have to the results. Even though we stick to our budget, we stick to our forecast of EUR 322-EUR 370, which is which I'm a CEO, I'm very happy to be able to bring this information to you today. On the next slide, you're gonna find Cefetra. It's slide 17. Cefetra really is a success story now. The management in Rotterdam achieved a very strong new role in the market of specialty business.
This is not only the commodity business, but the specialty business, as I elaborated already in a previous meeting, and therefore, we see a very strong result in the first three quarters, and we're gonna hopefully, I look to my CFO, see a 60-ish EBIT in 2023. Next slide, please. It's 18, and there we've got our agri trade and service business. I'm very happy with this result. It's quite tough to say this when you look at the figures and say, "Well, there's a decline of 70%, and he's still, he's still favorable and happy with the result." Yes. I am, because the trading business is growing very well.
I've just been to our deep sea port in North Germany, where we have deepened the harbor to be able to handle now, so beginning next year, Panamax ship class, and we've got already five trains running the grain from all over Germany, from Poland into this new harbor. So the export of the grain and therefore the margins are developing very, very well. I've just been on a ship who on a big vessel who was on its way to Casablanca. So this is a very good international business, and I'm very happy with that one. Next slide, please. Let's go back to Germany, to Bavaria. Page 19, you see the agricultural equipment segment. It's a very, very strong year, even better than last year.
It's a strong demand for service and maintenance. And please, if you go deeper into the details, a few of you have been to Bamberg, it's not only the selling of the tractor, it's the service and parts, which brings the music to the game, to this kind of business. So the population of machinery is growing in our region, and therefore, I'm looking very positively into the future of our agricultural equipment segment for the years to come. Now, on the next slide, page 20, you see now the, frankly spoken, the problems we see in our Global Produce segment. It's now in the red, actually, but there is only an insurance claim of EUR 3 million integrated in that figure.
We will see at the end of the day, a positive low, low figure in the Global Produce segment. And then for the years to come, as the Apple business is recovering very well in New Zealand, we're gonna see better figures in this segment in the years to come. You follow me on the other business units, which has a strong, very hard market today. You see the market developments in building materials, and that too, the permits in Germany for construction.
I can only say that this part, this business is gonna be a very strong and good business for BayWa in the years to come, because Germany does need this kind of building materials, does need houses, does need apartments, and therefore does need all the insulation materials. This business will come back, probably not this year, probably not in 2024, but in 2025, we're gonna see this business coming back.
As you see now, we are, despite other businesses in the or other companies in the market, we are still positive with close to EUR 6 million due to the fact that we have our development department, where we construct our own flats and houses, and it will contribute over EUR 7 million to this business. And we will also have the DIY market in Austria, which is still strong. So not the results we're used to from this business, but it's gonna be not in the red for the year 2023. And with this positive outlook, I would love to hand over to my colleague, Andreas Helber, give you more details about the financials.
Yeah. Thank you, and Marcus, and good morning, everybody, also from my side. Firstly, Marcus, I think I can assure you, Global Produce will meet the 60. This is something that we can say already.
Sorry.
Sorry, sorry. What did I say?
Global Produce.
Oh, no, Global Produce. I dreamed that this last night, but that was, of course, Cefetra. Starting on page 25, and it's always the other activities, the sum up of costs being covered here in this segment, the overhead cost and so on. And you see a very positive development year-on-year, compared to last year, down to roughly EUR 50 million after the nine-month period. And this is, of course, that we had some one-timer last year, but also we saw a better performance on our Austrian business in Austria, as well as higher proceeds from sale of real estate, also in Austria being covered. The outcome, and this is, I guess, what you are interested in, to see what the last quarter means for all of that.
Last year, it sums up to EUR 100 million, roughly, and this will pretty much being less this year. I guess it's in the range of maybe 70, if it goes all good, maybe 70, 75, or in that range for the other activities as a cost sector. I'll then go through the next three slides, and this is the summary, as you know it from the business units, starting with energy, consisting of the renewable energy business as well as the classical ones. Marcus already went through the details, so I can reduce it on the reflection of the nine-month number, and you see the total performance, roughly EUR 120 million, with a positive interest coverage.
If it goes to the earnings before tax, also with 21, below the last year's record number, but on an average, if you see it covered through the years. So nobody should be worried about the overall, the full year performance. There's a way to go. The last quarter is expected to get a contribution of roughly EUR 100 million, and that will probably mostly come out of the renewable energy sector, of course, a little bit also from the classical energy sector. But as we indicated, there are two large projects in the pipeline. It will be the race, how to say, the run of the race for December.
Again, we probably will have a very nice, nice, last month, because these two projects are mostly close or at least in December. On the agriculture segment, you see the overall performance pretty good after the nine-month period. Even it includes the, the global produce, and now I'm right, the global produce downturn via the Cyclone Gabrielle, which Marcus elaborated on. What is the expectation? Almost the rate other than in the energy business unit is mostly through. There is a portion to come in a range of EUR 40 million-EUR 50 million for the overall performance in the last quarter, driven by a very positive development in Cefetra Group as well as in the agricultural equipment, but also from a better-than-expected performance in our classical agricultural segment.
At least Marcus made the comments on that from the insurance compensation that we expect in New Zealand. Finally, the building materials. This is the situation that we suffer the most from after even the nine months period. You see it again, the EUR 6 million contribution only under water when it comes to the interest expense, not covering the cost, of course not. There is a bit to go into within the final quarter, and the performance in September as well as in October was better than expected, slightly better than expected. The expectations are not high, but I think this is also something that we have to look at in the last quarter.
Summarizing it in the financial statement, income statement on page 29, it tells you that the EBIT with EUR 250 is on its way, as Marcus, sorry, as Marcus indicated. I'm sorry.
Joke of the day.
As Marcus indicated, on its way to the EUR 3.20-EUR 3.70, the final outcome will be seen. But we also need the EBIT contribution and the strong last quarter to cover the interest rate. We are after nine-month period with EUR 17 total net income, which is not quite unusual. It is, of course, the interest expense situation. The development was unusual within the last 12 months, 10 times increases. You all know the story about it. So we need a strong performance operational, but we have also seen, after nine-month period , negative numbers in the years before. And one thing I have to elaborate a little bit is the earnings per share.
You know that we gave guidance beginning of the year on the EBIT, and this is what Marcus indicated we will stick to. We had been challenged last conference call a little bit on the earnings per share number, and I must confess, I was a bit bullish in putting it into a range of EUR 1-EUR 2. I haven't seen the 2 last interest increases, and I thought it would be easier to reduce working capital in the most of our entities. It went very well in the agri sector. It went very well in the building material one, but it was pretty difficult or pretty challenging, I should say, on the technical equipment, which is a good thing for next year to come.
But this is still on a higher level and of course, on our renewable energy business, whereas the sale of the projects, not only the two last ones, but all the other ones, and the reduction on the working capital inventory or the inventory levels on solar trade business went was—it's later, it's coming in later. As I said, the cash ins reducing the interest rate the interest burden now is only expected for December. So this impacts, of course, also our earnings per share, which I would now say would be in a range of as we had it years before in EUR 0.5–1.0 either than EUR 1.0–2.0 .
So I think this is what I have to state on the earnings per share. We are not giving any guidance on earnings per share, as you know, but this is the estimation in accordance with what we did in August. Final picture, the balance sheet number. Year-on-year, you see the reduction on the total assets number of roughly EUR 1 billion already. And if you look on last year's performance, after nine months to year-end, there's another reduction being expected in accordance also with the outflow of the renewable energy project and trade inventory, the equity ratio up from year-on-year, 13.5% to 14.1%.
This is not where we want to have it at the end, but as you know, we are working on that, both on the total assets number and other transaction that Marcus elaborated on that. And I think this should be it for the time being. We'll have a closer look on at the year-end with the outflows that I mentioned to come. And I think with that, we could hand over back to Josko.
Thank you, Mr. Helber. Thank you, Mr. Pöllinger. Now it's your turn, and we are ready to take your questions. Thank you.
The first question comes from Oliver Schwarz, Warburg Research. Please go ahead.
Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my questions. I appreciate that the operational results was only slightly below our expectation. However, the interest result wasn't. That was, let's say, much more negative than we had anticipated. Mr. Helber, you alluded to the increase in interest rates as well as to the high level of net debt. But when you're looking at the year and what, let's say, level of net debt would you expect by the end of the year, by about to reach when the working capital reductions you hinted at are finally done? And what level of interest costs, or let's say, financial result would you expect by the end of the year? That would be my first question. Second one is more housekeeping.
Can you give me, not sure whether you already gave that number, but could you repeat the number for the write-down in the solar trade? That would be helpful. Thank you.
Yeah, Mr. Schwarz, I take your two questions, but the interconnection with you is very bad; it's very poor. We could hardly really get you really good through here. I hope you can hear me better. Is that-
On my side, it's perfect.
Okay, then, yeah, but we got the things. The first, I take the last question first. The level of write-offs that we had included in the nine months figures is EUR 18 million.
Okay, thank you.
Yeah. The second question on the interest rate, and yeah, you, you're absolutely right. I have seen the levels coming down in the second half of the year is faster than it's now been doable. What we expect are cash inflows from the project sales of roughly in the range of EUR 100 million. But this is only a change of financing. From the running business, I expect another EUR 100 million probably getting in, so this should now for the year end being reflected in the debt level. This is not the big punch.
I think we are getting through to the work of reducing the trade inventory on the solar module business in the range of roughly EUR 200-250 million, within the beginning month of 2024. That would further reduce the debt level. But this is at from the year-end. In the indication for the interest expense, I am now roughly seeing the number that we had after nine months in a range of EUR 290-300, better than the number that we had in mind before.
Okay, thank you so much for that.
And on the other financial result, we already discussed it in August, I guess. I have the EUR 10 million in mind. It was less than it was last year, but we had a write down in one of our Australian projects on the financial side coming into this number. So this is the number I'm indicating for the full year. We are expecting dividends coming in in the last quarter from our Austrian friends, Raiffeisen Bank International. They announced that they will pay a dividend, which was unclear throughout the year, and also a dividend is coming in, in the same amount, roughly from DZ Bank, in Frankfurt.
Thank you for that one.
Have I missed something?
No.
The next question comes from Guido Hoymann, Metzler. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my questions. I think I got a few ones, three, four ones. First one would be on your developer activities, and in particular, the offshore activities. We have seen these massive problems of Ørsted recently with their offshore U.S. projects, and the whole industry seems to be sort of paralyzed at the moment. So my question is, are you still convinced about your decision to move into this business? You could, of course, say, you know, you're just starting, so until first progress will be made, it will be probably in one or two years' time. But nevertheless, is that still valid, this decision? The second one is on the insurance payment.
I think you mentioned what is still to come for the New Zealand damage, but can you repeat that, please? Next one would be on the order backlog in agri equipment. I think it's still high, you mentioned, but can you also give us the order intake or the development of the order intake quarter by quarter of year? And the last one, on the building materials business, looking at the development of the construction activity in Germany, which is terrible. I could almost be surprised that your business is still generating a positive result. So what is still going well there? What is the miracle behind that? So I guess it's probably a renovation and public construction, but could you elaborate a little bit on that, please? Thank you.
Mr. Hoymann, Marcus Pöllinger. I will start with your last question. Building materials. What we achieved in the last, I guess, 3-4 years, with building materials, we broadened our portfolio. So it's not only the logistical part and distribution of building materials, it's going into specialization. So, we have, as you already mentioned, it's the public sector, it's we have even been included into, it's probably not the best project, but for us, as a trader, it was a very good one. The BER, the airport in Berlin, where we delivered, in the landing strip, technical equipment, before even one plane touched the ground.
As I mentioned before, we've got our DIY in Austria, we and also in this business, it's called Unser Lagerhaus, is doing very, very well. And we've got our project development company, which provides a good impact into the EBIT. So it's a, it's a very broad portfolio, and what we have done is, let's say we've done a bit of a housekeeping in the last year. We have a very, very strong, very good, efficiently performing, logistics. So our trucks are now, our own fleet is not standing around. It's now working for the agricultural business. It's bringing fertilizer to the farmers.
So, as we achieved in the last years to get the whole logistics, not only into the business units, but looking on a broader view and of the efficiency of the logistics, this will help us. And then we've put some measures into place very early. So we sold branches, we closed down five branches now in Germany. We have a hiring stop for the last eight months and still working very high in cost efficiency in this segment. So this will help us to get over this period of time. Your third question was about the agricultural equipment segment.
So, we do see our decrease of about 6% in the intakes of new machinery. So the demand is slowing a bit down, but not as dramatically as in other businesses. I was just speaking to the president of the farmers last year, yesterday, and he told me that it's still, for a farmer, the best way to invest in our high-class machinery. So I'm very optimistic about that. Then I would hand over to Andreas for your second question, but just give me... Let me answer your first question coming, and it's concerning about the offshore. Well, please keep in mind, the offshore is a very, very tiny little business for BayWa renewable energy.
To give you an idea, we've got close to 4,000 people working in this business unit, and the offshore business are 20-25 people. What we are achieving to do, and there's only one little project now, or the plan, the business plan for the offshore is just developing the project, ready to build. We will never, ever build a project like this ourselves because the risks are too high. We're just developing the project, getting all the rights and then sell it. As we do now, for example, in this huge solar project in the U.S., it's called Big Creek. It has over 500 MW. It's already ready to build, and now we're selling it on a very high margin, and this is the same with the offshore business.
I would hand over to Andreas.
... Yeah. And Mr. Harmon, that was the last outstanding question was on the insurance claim, which Global Produce and what we expect there. I think Marcus already indicated that an amount of EUR 3 million is already included in the total claim, roughly what the guys in New Zealand are making up is in a range of some EUR 25 million in total, but we do not expect everything to come in. The Global Produce is now at, after nine months, standing at minus EUR 5 million. I would see them in a range of 5+ to 8+, so a range of maybe 10-13 additionally coming out of this claim and performance, of course, but mostly of this claim.
All right. Perfect. Very clear. Thank you for your, for your answers, Mr. Helber and Mr. Pöllinger. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Markus Mayer, Baader Helvea. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, gentlemen. I have two questions, if I may. The first one is on the restructuring of the selling process of your solar trade business. Does this mean, when you say it will be restarted, it sounds that it will be also restructured. Does this mean that you split up this potential business for sale, or will you include additional parts, you've previously not included? That would be my first question. And then my second question is, given the back-end loaded business in Q4, at least out of your indication, do you expect to reach more the lower end of the guidance or the mid to even the upper point that possible? That's all from my side. Thank you.
Great questions. I would like to hand over to Andreas.
That's unfair. But, Mr. Mayer, no, I, maybe on the first one and on the solar trade transaction. Firstly, once again, the feedback that we got from the investors is, was pretty good. Of course, and we have seen other transactions being canceled, think about the IPOs, that we have seen. I think the market environment, on investment of that size, was not very favorable, developing within the last couple of weeks or even, the last two quarters, I must say. And finally, I think, now at the closing quarter, we also. We always know that from other transactions, it, it's better to start with a fresh book, with fresh investors and, with a new move in 2024.
So it's nothing that we see structure-wise that we have to change something. What we see is that mostly the private equity investors were quite happy, but also the more strategic investors are looking on this business, but that might be a fact that it's a bit too big for them to take it in one bite. So I'm not talking about restructuring the transaction or the business as a whole, but of course, we are looking on taking the feedback from the investors that we get.
But we are, and this is a very strong confirmation from the, also from the CFO of the group, because it's quite crucial for me to get the proceeds in, whatever it will be at the end of the day, but to get the proceeds, and we stick to that strategic division, to divest the solar trade and to cash it out. But I think, if we can do, we take the time as we did, remember, two years again, when we took the other investor in, into the renewable energy business. That was all. These transactions are not being done in a hurry. We take our time. It took us two years then.
We will not have the time, this time, but we need just some better, some more time and a better window for investments to conclude or to close this transaction. So and by talking too much, I forgot the other question that was-
The second question was basically on the guidance and,
Yeah.
Just the second half of business, if lower, mid, or upper end even is possible.
I would say if I, if I don't know it better, I would say it's in the mid-range. Yeah. So we are probably not on the lower, not in the upper. It's, it's, for me, it's in the mid one.
Okay. Thank you.
But, you know, as always, we have also some risk in the final quarter. You know, as we indicated, a lot of the results in the renewable energy relies on these two transactions being closed. You never know until the ink is dry, what will happen. And, so we are very positive on this, but, my best guess is what I just indicated.
Maybe if I can still add one question on these two projects. So even if they would be not signed in the fourth quarter of 2025, you are pretty sure that it will be signed then, at least in 2024, correct?
Yes, of course.
Okay, thank you.
The next question comes from Heinz Müller, Dr. Kalliwoda Research. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Good morning, Heinz Müller speaking. I would like to raise three questions. So in cooperation with the Deutsche Kreditbank AG, you started a project called Climate and Agriculture, in order to support farmers technically as well as financially. So perhaps you could give us some more explanations of this project. And the second question is with regard to the building materials. So do you plan to implement the concept of the smart store of BayWa building materials, which we implemented in Altötting? Also, to other segments, like perhaps agriculture, for example, in order to reduce the required manpower. And the third question is with regard to the agricultural equipment. So the program of the so-called Bauernmilliarde will stop in the next year.
Do you expect a negative impact on your ag equipment segment due to the fact that this program will run out? Thank you.
So, Mr. Miller, thank you very much for your question. I'm gonna start with the third one, the Bauernmilliarde. As being one of the largest worldwide trader for tractors and harvesters, these products are not included into the Bauernmilliarde. So, we do not expect a decline in the business due to the fact that the Bauernmilliarde won't be in 2024. We do hope for the Agritechnica, one of the largest trade fair for agricultural machinery, as you know, starting this Sunday in Hanover, that this trade fair will stimulate the whole business and will push even more in the fourth quarter, our ag equipment business as well. The second question was about our smart store in Altötting. Yes, absolutely.
This is a technology not only for the building material, but also for the agri input business. And as you probably have heard, we've just built two new branches under the new strategy, under the new concept, two shops, where the technique so the agriculture equipment and the input businesses are aligned under one roof to bring down the costs, to raise the efficiency in Nürtingen and in Forchheim. And this is the way we're gonna develop our infrastructure in the agricultural business. B- as you might remember, I mentioned in Bamberg that the money employed in this business, especially in the agri input business, is too high.
I want to get out EUR 150 million out of this business, and the infrastructure is one part of this new strategy when it comes to bringing down the manpower, bringing down the stock inventory, et cetera. And your first question was about the humus. Yes, as you know, my colleague, Frau Dr. Marlen Wienert, has her own farming experience in the very northeast of Germany. She runs, you have to say, a business with 3,000 hectares, so she's very close to this kind of ideas and the so-called Ackerboden als CO₂ Speicher.
This is, of course, an idea for our sustainability business, but it's just in the very beginning. It won't contribute to the EBIT, unfortunately, or to the cash flow. It's more, it's a nice marketing tool, and that's probably it, to be truly honest to you.
Okay, thank you.
The next question comes from René Rückert, Baader Bank. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, everybody. Two questions on the renewables business. First one, do you see a limitation or potential delay to the development of the PV business if the ban on Chinese modules should come to the EU? And second one, can you explain how is the split between solar and wind revenues in the third quarter? Thanks.
Third quarter. So year to date, thank you for your question. It's a very good question. Year to date, we have to go into the figures to see the split here. So I'll probably start with the first question. You know, banning any kind of materials from the EU, it's gonna be a tough one because we do need renewable energy to supply enough energy to our industry and to the whole of Europe. So, yes, it's gonna be a problem for the EU, taking into consideration that 80% of the solar panels are coming from China. But, as you have already noticed, probably now, there are other routes are opening via India, for example.
The very basic, the materials of which the panels are produced are still from China, but they are manufactured in India and even in Saudi Arabia, there are companies now producing solar modules. So we will get our modules. I don't, I'm not afraid of that one, but I don't think it's gonna be a very smart choice for the EU to ban a product which is truly, truly necessary to build up our renewable energy supply. The second question, the revenues, actual, I don't... It's split up. The wind projects are EUR 295 million revenues, and the solar project, it's just the project business. It's not the solar trade business, is EUR 163.9 million.
... Okay. Thanks very much.
You're welcome.
At the moment, there are no further questions. If you would still like to raise a question at this point, please press nine, followed by the star key on your telephone keypad. There is one question coming from Luca Olivieri, Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead, you're live.
Hi, everyone. Can you hear me? Thank you for taking my question.
We can hear you. Thank you.
Okay, perfect. I was reading, I don't know if you mentioned it. I came a little bit late, but can you tell me about your different options that you're pursuing to refinance your business, and how would it look like? What segments is it gonna be? And, yeah, how are you gonna refinance it? Thank you.
This is probably a question for the CFO on refinancing. We just completed the largest refinancing project that was the syndicated loan that we extended until the end of 2025. So the other transaction that we went through this year and are going to finalize are smaller ones. We increased our hybrid bonds in the second or the third quarter, I guess it was in the third quarter already, from on a smaller portion, from EUR 60 million to EUR 100 million upwards. What else?
We did a private placement with the State Bank of India of EUR 25 million, and we are now in the final steps of our in 2023 in a range of roughly EUR 70 million to come in November and December. This is the steps that we are going through in 2023. For 2024, what we have on the list is the refinancing, if necessary, if required, of the green bond, which is expiring by the end of June. But as I said before, I'm not quite sure if we really need it to refinance it, because we are reducing sharply the resources taken in the renewable energy business, and we have a complete different situation on the architecture so far.
This is one thing that we are going to prepare, to be prepared, but this is all that we have on the agenda now for refinancing the business. The most thing is through already, and the biggest take was the extension of the EUR 2 billion syndicated loan financing this year.
Thank you.
Thank you very much. As there are no further questions at this point, I'd like to hand it back to the speakers.
Thank you very much for your time and your interest. I think it's a little bit too early to wish you Merry Christmas, so I hope that I'll... We will see many of you at the Eigenkapital Forum in Frankfurt by the end of this month. Until then, we wish you a good time. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
Looking forward to see you. Thank you so much. Have a good day.