Earnings Call: Q3 2024

Nov 14, 2024

Welcome to today's presentation of Q3 results. I will go through the presentation as usual, later on we go into the questions you might have. That is the ordinary disclaimer. The executive board is unchanged. Jutta Ludwig for the Asian business, Frank Yeager doing all the IP product business from the U.S., and myself being responsible for medical as well as the CEO of the company. That slide is known to most of you, it basically demonstrate that it becomes more busier than ever. Every time we see each other here on a quarterly basis, there are more companies entering that field, either big companies or smaller companies participating in the race of the production, manufacturing, and marketing radiopharmaceuticals. I'm pretty sure that we will come also to our latest press release of yesterday, which is another cornerstone into that development. We are talking about gallium, and I will talk about, in particular about gallium because our generator remains the cornerstone of our business in the medical business. No wonder actinium, lutetium, and also our hot cell business, our engineering business, is a very important contributor to our profit. Here you see some of our customers, those customers which we are mentioning in press releases or where they were mentioning it for lutetium being our customers, actinium our customers, and then contract manufacturing end of Q3. For those who are the pity pointers in that you will realize that in actinium, of course, Telix is missing there because it was only mentioned yesterday. Our product chain remains, the value chain remains unchanged. In the upper part you see everything which we are doing in terms of our medical segment, and the lower part is a huge portfolio in the Isotope Products segment where we are contributing with different sources, imaging sources, measurement calibration towards quality assurance and the entire portfolio entering into the field of approximately 50% of Eckert & Ziegler's revenue. What are the operational highlights before I come into the financial part of that? First of all, we entered and we received the European approval to really marketing our GalliaPharm in all European countries. There are still countries where that was not possible, and now that gives us more and more opportunities also for the European area, but later on for non-European countries to become the broad and mostly available gallium-generating producing company. We have been awarded by Telix earlier in August this year to become for their prostate cancer phase III study, their CMO facility here in our Berlin facilities. Some of you have visited us here to have a first glance how that looks like. It is an important role also for the future because we do and we had invested into the CMO facilities, and that is also for the years to come, and more and more important factor of Eckert & Ziegler's profitability. We opened our big engineering hot cell facility in Dresden. A lot of press release and noise was made about that because it demonstrate that it is not only North America or China, whatever, that also Germany can demonstrate its attractiveness for companies to go to Germany, to come to Dresden, to Rossendorf in particular, where also our companies but other companies are also placed there. More and more companies want to produce in here in Germany, and we get a lot of also governmental, not financial, but emotional support from the government here to make sure that Dresden and the environment area that is possible and can really execute what we want to do. Namely, to produce here isotope for the European needs, and our company there, ITD, plays an important role in doing all the engineering facilities there. Now, as, I would also mention 2 other issues and to be precisely that would then once again will show up in the entire year perspective. Julian rightly made it very clear that these 2 effects have a dominant role also for the Q, for the entire performance we are talking about. A is the spin-off which took place at the very 1st week of October, the spin-off of Pentixa. Which is now a fully-fledged independent company. You have received probably yesterday's Q3 result, which was published, but that was in the end of the combined company, Eckert & Ziegler and Pentixa. Now it's separate, and that's why that has become legally effective. The other topic is very shortly only to mention that we don't forget about our license agreement with Telix in Australia for the production of actinium, and that is a important milestone which both companies have achieved. I didn't want to miss here the opportunity to mention that license agreement, although it only happened in November, i.e. in Q4. Boring slide, sorry for that. The last time you will see that is the 23 results, four years perspective. Then of course will change, but I want to take that as a starting point that in Isotope Products segment basically two-thirds of the employees are here, where 300 people are working for medical. That is more and more being changing because medical is hiring more and more people. That's why that number will increase. You know that we are above 1,000 people meanwhile. Also revenue-wise, these are numbers which are not valid for this year, only for last year. The important message is that it's still 50/50 revenue and EBIT growth, and participation and split between the two segments, demonstrating how important also the Isotope Products segment for the overall profitability of Eckert & Ziegler is. Now let's have a look to the Q3 result in more detail. Here that is basically all you like to know, or I would like to present to you. Net sales, Adjusted EBIT, our new number which we are using since beginning of this year, also for those who are interested in net income numbers at the very bottom line. Our overall sales performance was growing by 17%, double-digit growth from EUR 184 million up to EUR 216 million by the end of September. That is, represents 17%. If you look to the organic growth or the FX adjusted growth, that would be even 20% growth or even higher because of some headwinds we had with the currency. We only report the 17%, but basically it's FX adjusted even higher. In particular, radiopharmaceutical growth of, you know, 42%. I come to that later on. 26% was prior year also for medical, but also for Isotope Products, we have a 10% growth versus prior year. We had a very strong first half-year, then the second half-year was as predicted, slightly softer, but overall strong performance for the net sales. If you look to the Adjusted EBIT, then here we see even a stronger growth of 24%, which you see here, up to EUR 47 million by the end of September. Then also for those who are interested in the margin, it's going up to 22%. That is basically something we want to achieve by 2040 or so. We achieve wonderful result in terms of Adjusted EBIT margin by 22%, 10 percentage points higher than last year. Although we had some costs which we had to factor our rationalize, some costs we had to write off and things like that. The strong performance of medical in exceeding here sales growth, but contributed to the strong performance in EBIT adjusted. Net income, I will also mention that that is still difficult to understand because of the hyperinflation effect in Argentina, currency effect and the balance sheet, and then of course PENTIXA, which we talk of. It depends to what number you're looking like. You see the numbers here at the bottom. In medical in particular, 26% growth for the net sales above EUR 100 million for the 9 months. First time that we exceeded EUR 100 million sales for the medical segment and in EBIT adjusted, 31%. Really super performance for the medical result. We have gross profit was increasing gross margin, logically also then going on, although we had to increase our cost for our new projects, in particular depreciation, where we had now finished the construction of our GMP suite here in Berlin and other sites. That is now, by depreciation, in these numbers already, and then also higher personal cost. Still the overall increase in EBIT margin is higher than the net sales increase, which is important. Normally we always talk about the generator business, and that is here, for EUR 10 million in generators, super. Also in Dresden, hot cell business increase in sales by EUR 5 million up. Also the others, the Brachytherapy and sister radiotherapy and lab equipment, both growing above EUR 1 million compared to last year. Overall, good results for the entire medical segment. In the Isotope Products, we also are above EUR 100 million, increased by 10%. Due to the extraordinary strong increase in gross margin due to the good product mix, there was almost 30% growth increase from EUR 19 million to EUR 25 million this year. If you look to the EBIT adjusted margin, it's up by 22%. I jump one slide back here, 23% for medical, 22% for IP in this particular period of time, which is really a good result. We mentioned that the first half year for Isotope Products segment was very good starting, and then softening a little bit in the second part of the year. You see here the hyperinflation effect in the lower part of it. If we want to compare why we do report Adjusted EBIT and non-adjusted EBIT, there are some effects. These are currency effect and financial results and of course the hyperinflation effect. If that is taken into consideration, EUR 46 million for the first 9 months of this year compared to EUR 10 million lower, EUR 37 million of last year. That is where the EUR 10 million increase is deriving from. Looking to the regional split of the countries, Europe, basically unchanged. A third of our overall sales are coming from Europe, whereas 50% of our sales are generated in Americas, particularly of course, North America, particularly with the increase of our generator sales. A strong demand also of our higher activity generator for those who are more in the product portfolio. We have a generator fifty. There's 50 millicurie, and we have a stronger, twice as high generator, millicurie hundred. There's a strong demand because the ongoing imaging procedures and the increasing amount of procedures are triggering then a higher demand of generators. Without giving out too many details here and talking about all the products, which might is boring for you, already by now, our order book for the first months of next year is completely full. Production is running at its full capacity also for the next year already. Asia, increase here on a low level. That's why sometimes it's increasing double digits, then it goes a little bit down. So it goes up and down in a higher rarity and fluctuation, but overall, it represents a double-digit participation of the overall growth, and that is due to the China effect that we wanted to grow. Here you see the extrapolation and the development of our radiopharmaceuticals. Radiopharmaceuticals are our isotopes, either in bulkware or in generators, cold kits, but also the engineering part, which is also included there. We do anticipate a sales of EUR 150 million by the end of this year, which represents a growth compared to last year of 36%. We are not showing any longer the inorganic growth of Tecnonuclear, which took place in 2021 and 2022. It's all now incorporated completely in our growth story. If you have a quarter by quarter, you see here the performance of the individual quarter up to Q3 of this year, and Q4 is of course, is missing. Balance sheet. How does the balance sheet look like? We have increase in cash. Normally we say, last time, I think when we met, it was EUR 70 minus EUR 20. Now it's almost EUR 100 minus EUR 20 liabilities. Our port money, our cash funds are quite filled up again, which is good because we do want to invest into our facilities, and that's why cash is king, in particular of increasing interest. It's good that we can finance all our activities out of our own pockets, and the rest is relatively unchanged here. There are no big change compared to last year. Our key performance indicators, key figures. I mentioned already here, 20% growth in our Adjusted EBIT, so EUR 10 million more than last year. Cash flow, strong increase in cash flow. Investments, not so strong so far. More to come, and we might talk about that. Cash, as I mentioned, EUR 100 million. Loans, we repaid a little bit of our loan, external loans. Equity ratio, above 50%. Headcount increased by 7% by 1,100 people so far by the end of September. Here, once again, the key numbers. Mention again, I skipped that one. The outlook, now that is probably the triggering point of our discussion. We have, as of today, not changed the guidance for the time being. We want to keep it here as it is. It's only 6 weeks left. We will talk about that in a couple of minutes. What is happening until the end of the year and beginning of next year. For those who are interested to see where Eckert & Ziegler will show up, there is a conference call later today with Berenberg. Next week is Jefferies. We have the Eigenkapitalforum. We have the other conferences, including the quarterly reports of Eckert & Ziegler throughout next year, including the general meeting, which takes place here in Berlin in June the 18th of next year. Thank you. That was my presentation. Normally, I try to stick within the first 15 months here to demonstrate and present the story. We do open the floor for all kinds of questions. Please use your electronic hand for whatever you want to comment or to ask about. Together with the help of my colleagues, we went through one by one through your questions. Who's first? I see the first question from Alexander Gradenegger. Alexander, please. I think maybe first one on the generators. You showed the number as of nine months, the generators have grown by EUR 11 billion top line. I guess the question is, what is driving it? To what extent is it driven by the CE mark that you have received or is it still that the mature markets require more generators to accommodate the larger volumes of imaging? I guess, how much dynamic you still see in this business going maybe into the next year? Thank you. That's the first one. Okay. Wonderful. Basically, Alexander Gradenegger, it's a mixture of various components. The newly granted received CE mark is not really playing a substantial influence in that sales growth so far because of two effects. Most of the countries were already covered with generators. With all due respect to countries like Bulgaria or whatever now being entered and added also to our list, they will not by tomorrow order 100 of additional generators. It is important that we do supply by finding our distributor or whatever. The CE mark for Europe will play a role in rather next year than this year, A. B is that we are selling generator for commercial use for radiopharmacies, pharmacies, for hospitals, for clinics, but we are also selling generators for pharma companies which they are used for clinical studies, because they are using our generator for new compounds being then entered into the market later on once their product has achieved commercial grade and market authorization. These generator normally are sold on an individual basis on a slightly higher price than if one radiopharmacies orders 50 generators on spot or has a 3 years contract. That's why we have not only a volume effect, but also we have a price effect, which helps if we sell some of these scientific, so to speak, generators that is at a slightly higher price. Finally, the most important topic is the U.S. market, where we see an increasing demand in generators, because if you look to our competitors, that or the gallium competing compound versus F-18, produced by Lantheus, they have unbeaten success. If you look to Novartis and Telix, which their sales numbers of their compounds, both imaging and therapy, that is in increase and even you have also seen that the reimbursement topic has been become quite comfortable for those companies also in the time to come. Increasing demand of therapy means increasing demand of imaging, means increasing demand of generators. That's why, instead of purchasing one generator by a pharmacy once a year, they continue to purchase one generator a year, but they have doubled the amount of quantity by purchasing a generator 2x as high also with the price which is higher than the ordinary one. A GalliaPharm 100 of course has a much higher price than the GalliaPharm 50. Here we have volume and price effect in the North American hemisphere. The outlook for next year, I continue to say that countries like Japan, small market but high price, China, big market with lower price, are countries, big important countries to be added to our list of countries being supplied with generators. To what extent we will see real numbers already by next year, I doubt that that will have an important influence because the registration procedure is complicated. That will only happen by 2026 to a substantial and tangible effect. There are other countries, more countries which I added, and that's why I remain extremely positive also for the generator business. When we come in March next year for the outlook of 2025, the generator business will continue to play an important role for the overall performance. Okay. I take Lukas Spranger for the next question. I have just one question relating the Telix announcement from yesterday, because I was a little bit surprised that you now also do such license deals in terms of isotope production. Can you share a little bit of your thoughts on strategic side from Eckert & Ziegler, going forward, or in terms of this kind of deals, and if we should expect more deals like that? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's not a contradiction to what we have always said because if we now speak to pharma companies, then they have a demand which nobody can fulfill. What can a pharma company do? They can also only sit in their corner and wait for companies like Eckert & Ziegler and others to start producing and then do it and failing and do it again and being smaller or bigger, whatever. A lot of companies will go that way because they do not want to enter into the field of own homemade isotope production. Telix is one of those companies who have chosen another way. They want to be, on the one side, independent from other suppliers. Simultaneously, they need also the supply in order to be sure that, in case their own production fails or is not as effective or whatever might happen, that they have a second supplier. Basically what companies like Telix are saying, "We need both. We need a supplier. We need someone who helps us in setting up an own production facility." If companies like Telix knock on my door and ask for both options, the Americans might say it's double dip. We are happy that companies are using on the short term, they have a license agreement. On the midterm, we remain a supplier of Telix also in supplying them with actinium in double sourcing strategy and also from a short-term scenario. That's why that deal is quite attractive for us in, A, getting cash at the very beginning for a license deal. In brackets, if we don't do it, they might have chosen someone else doing that for them. Better I do it than someone else is doing it. Simultaneously, we remain a isotope producer for Telix and others, very attractive. With Telix in particular, we have a long, long-lasting relationship. You know that they also took over our site in Belgium, in Seneffe, which we are not using anymore. We had a deal some years ago where they took over that business, and there are other cooperative activities where we jointly do things together. I mentioned our CMO activity and also lutetium supply and others. That's why it also fits to the same strategic approach. As part of the question, should we expect more of this? There's nothing to announce as of today. If Telix is asking for the same topic once again, or was to ask, "Can we have a lutetium line in-house? Or should we ask Harald? Should we ask someone else doing that?" I would probably not deny it. If you ask me, will we announce a second license deal by tomorrow? The answer is no. In the next month and quarters. Yeah. It always takes two to tango, Lukas. If I go to the nuclear conference in Hamburg, everybody tells me, "I need, I need, I need, I need. I need it now. I need it tomorrow. I don't want to pay for it. Harald, you have to do everything on your own risk." That is something where, for various reasons, we say, "We do whatever you want, but we don't pay it by our own." There must be a risk-sharing approach, and we are discussing these ideas. In the old days, it was called public-private partnerships or something like that. We are happy to discuss it, but also for big companies, money is a high valued good, so it's not on the We might continue the discussion, but it's not unlikely, but there's nothing now I can announce it. If there's no more question from Lukas, I go further on to Nicolas. Hello, thanks for taking the question. I'm gonna try to keep it short, but there are a few. The first one is probably a yes or no question. On the GalliaPharm 100, are we to assume that it's higher profitability than the lower version, or it's kind of the same? Yes. Okay, great. Next question I think is on the CapEx. I think last time we spoke, you mentioned that you will have slower than anticipated CapEx. Where do we stand as of today? Do you remain with the statement or it is even lower than anticipated? Now also a yes. It's also a yes. I mean, like the French, you are, you want to have a yes more, you're asking two questions, so you can choose which yes you take for which question. This is slowing down process because we are starting now our actinium production in Prague. By the end of the year, we'll have started, later on we do click the button for our own production. First I want to have the proof of concept things like that. That's why it's a slight deeper of starting point in these big investments. It's a yes. Okay, great. Maybe a last one that is more broader. We are starting to see that there is a lot of excitement across alpha therapies. I was wondering if you could maybe elaborate on what's the, let's say, decision-making strategy that will say, we need to invest into a new isotope and maybe start developing a lead-212 generator, for instance. How do you think about new opportunities, and what's the, let's say, decision guidelines that you take? If you go to a commodity, if someone asks me to produce or to set up a new production line for Y-90, which is a commodity meanwhile, it is a no-brainer and if I get the money, I do it by tomorrow. If you go to the more advanced one and to the extreme advanced one, I can also do whatever customer wants me to do. The more we look into the future, the higher the risk gets, and the higher the risk is, I want my partner to step in. Now, if you particularly ask about lead-212, which is beyond actinium, then in considering the extremely short half-life of lead-212, there are a lot of technical issues which have to be handled, which we have a cooperation with our bio in our Boston facility and we are also talking to others. The more you go into the future, the higher the risk part of the partner has to be. With other words, we do that, but the financial commitment has to be very clear. With even other words, do I spend now a lot of effort into lead-212? No. Do I spend a lot of effort in making sure that our actinium project develops as planned? Yes. Even for looking for actinium, the latest forecast is that not before 2027 pharma will enter the commercial field. That is a 3, 4, 5 years expected before we see substantial tangible actinium sales. Only by 2033, we will have here in that field a blockbuster area. For lead-212, I will have lost all my remaining hairs before seeing anything. Okay, very clear. Thanks. Alexander, I think I interrupted you before you wanted to have the second and the third and the fifth and the 10th question. Once again, back to Alexander. Yeah. I have a couple left indeed. Maybe on the Telix licensing agreement, I think it mentions in the press release that you also are entitled to access to a higher availability of actinium. Could you just elaborate what that means? Does it mean that whatever Telix is producing but is not needing for their own needs, you're allowed to market? Or how to interpret that? Before I interrupt you, I better collect all your questions, otherwise I don't want to be seen. Okay. That's 1. I also was wondering on gallium generators, if you could maybe provide some color on what is the share of generators that are higher volume, and whether you're seeing already sort of an ongoing dynamic where the current installed base is being substituted by the higher volume generators. Where do you think it could go in terms of a mature market? Is it possible that all generators at some point will be high volume? Any thoughts on that? Two last ones are, 1 is on Telix CMO contract, if that could be meaningful in terms of revenue earnings contribution over the next years, and what is the sort of phasing of this contract? Lastly, on Y-90. I think, a couple of years ago, there was a lot of noise around China Grand Pharma, acquiring Sirtex Medical and bringing the therapy to the Chinese market. I think that has stalled somehow. I don't know if you have any update or progress to share whether this still should be viewed as a unlocked opportunity or whether we should not really think about it anymore. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. In Telix, the deal contains of various parts. It is a licensed deal, or we, is something as a cookie cutter, which can be used and also to set up a production site on Telix's own site. The question is to what extent that we'll be able, our production facilities and their production facilities will be able to produce whatever is needed on those sites. We are producing it to sell it, the others are using it for their own purposes. If they have excess capacity, of course it does not make sense to put it into the waste, make use of it. That's why we have a good agreement on how to cooperate also on excess capacity. Regarding the other Telix question, I combine these two questions, that is the CMO activity. If you look to clinical CMO activities for Telix and others, it's a non-core business. It's a non-contributing business. It's a non-substantial business. There are basically two reasons or two and a half reasons why CMO is so attractive for us. A, CMO changes into commercial production. Commercial production is really something which matters, i.e. Sirtex and others. If you want to become the commercial supplier, you have to be there from the very beginning and also pitch for the clinical research, A. B, that links to the isotope supply. Companies who are in clinical studies are very early making the SmPC clinical data, all the formulas putting together, and then they want to make sure that our production center is company A, B, Z, together with the isotope-producing company. If we have the chance to convince our customers by saying, "We want to become your commercial product, commercial producing entity, and be also your isotope supplier," then we have to do that from the very beginning onwards, or open the door from the very beginning, and that's why currently now the Telix CMO activities does not play a major role in the profits I just presented. Like the others, if this transfers into commercial production, then we have a different scenario, and if you combine that with the cross-selling activities of our isotopes, it's even better. That's why the CMO activities for Telix and others are really meaningful for us, but also only on a midterm. Then you have had the questions regarding the gallium generator. If you talk about the high volume generators, then you are talking about the GalliaPharm 100, twice as high as the GalliaPharm 50. They are currently only approved in North America, where their part is in terms of numbers. You can either look in terms of money, you can look in terms of activities, you can look in terms of devices itself. It's approximately a third of the generators which are a fourth to a third, which are based on that higher volume. In the moment we get also European approval, then I'm sure that this will then also swap over to the European area. The U.S. is a country where the acceptance of radioisotope-based imaging procedure is not only higher accepted, but it's also reimbursed and higher priced than in Europe. Even with the approval of GalliaPharm 100 in Europe, still these companies like Novartis and other will have continuous challenges in getting reimbursement in all these countries for that imaging procedures which are still low paid. I do expect that also Pluvicto will become here a success. If Pluvicto becomes, then imaging becomes a success, also GalliaPharm should participate on that. Lastly was Y-90 in China. Yes, there was from investors or from educated parties, a statement that within five years, the sales of Y-90 in China should be as big as in the rest of the world. That has so far not materialized. We are producing and supplying to China, GMP material to China, from both sides. That works successful. However, the numbers which originally were mentioned 5 times in 5 years as big as rest of world, has not been taking place yet. That is, you can name whatever reason, but this is still on its way. I think these were the 4 questions. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. We switch to Switzerland, and I welcome Jean-Marc here. Yes. Thank you for taking my question. It's a numbers question, I'm afraid. If it gets too complicated, maybe we can also take it offline. I noticed that over the years, the gross margin in Q4 always tends to be quite weak. We had that in 2021, we had it in 2022. It was also the case in 2023. I mean, should we expect the same thing now in 2024? If yes, can you explain why there is this strong seasonality of weak gross margins in Q4? Yeah. Yeah. I give 30 seconds lead-212 time to my colleagues, Julian and Olivier, to jump in. In the meantime, yes, right you are, Q4 is regularly a shorter quarter because it stops basically at the beginning of December. The number of procedures are going down. There's no imaging procedure between Christmas and New Year's Eve. There's no radioisotope delivery. Companies are closing down their factories. That's why the business really goes down, not to a surprise, but rather if even if you look to the implant business or radiotherapy, all these things are not taking place at the last days of the year. May I interrupt quickly? I mean, it doesn't really show on the sales line. The sales line in Q4 tends to be actually quite okay. I mean, it's not that Q4 tends to be the weakest quarter in terms of sales, it just tends to be a very weak quarter in terms of gross margin. Yeah. That's why I wanted to bridge the time that Olivier can here jump in or Julian by saying what costs are then coming up they had forgotten about the entire year, which is an unfair statement for. Olivier or Julian, who wants to take that question? Maybe I take first. First of all, it's not always revenue-wise. That's true. Last year, beginning of the year was weak, end of the year was stronger. This year is the other way around. Maybe Q4 is also this year by far not the strongest. That's the first thing. The second thing, at the end of the year, even though we are trying as good as possible to take assumptions over the year to look at our provisions and stuff, but at the end of the year, we will always have our Q4 reassessments of the provisions and all these considerations, all the impairment tests, et cetera, et cetera. And this is still, even though we take some assumptions upfront and try to tackle as much as possible earlier, this will still be the case also this year. Okay. Maybe an add-on question in that regard. I mean, when I look at the operational segment also in Q4, but not just in Q4, we have kind of a steady progression. In Q4, because of the weaker gross margin, I understand the operational segment also tends to have a lower margin. Can you help me with the other cost line or, you know, whether we call it holding costs or other costs, et cetera. I mean, this line jumps around quite a bit. It has last year and also this year we went from a negative number in Q1 of EUR 2.13 million. In Q3, it was a positive number of EUR 330,000 on a non-adjusted basis. Can you help us out a little bit what really affects that cost line? First of all, I am not able to go really into one specific number now. Yeah I don't really know what you're exactly looking at. When we really go into detail, this is maybe rather something to really take the time and go into the detail together. Sure. Very general, in others, there was so much going on unadjusted the last one and a half, two years, especially with the spin-off of Pentixapharm. All these costs, everything is in there, or next point, was in there. The first time we changed all these costs related to the spin-off of Pentixapharm have been reclassified in Q3 this year. There is shifts from here to there, related to the spin-off, related to other things, related to, as one example in the presentation of Harald, to the, to the reconsiderations with, the Bechererei in Berlin. Mm-hmm ... all these topics pop up. If we really go and look at a Sure. Okay. topic, then we should go into detail. Not easy to answer just in one sentence. Okay. My final question for you, Harald? I mean, the GalliaPharm business obviously going from strength to strength. I remember in the past, you know, we tried to do the math, you know, one generator can produce that many doses of whatever test equipment you want to enrich. If you do that, it is kind of hard to understand that this business is still growing at this huge pace. Mm-hmm. Can you give us an idea what the capitalization of a generator is? I understand that you have to replace it after, like, 250 days or so anyway. Do you feel that those generators are properly utilized or is it just that everybody now who needs one, orders one, despite, you know, not having really enough tests to do on such a machine? This is a good entrepreneurial question because there was a lot of hesitation 1.5 years ago that in particular, smaller radiopharmacies in the U.S. were hesitating to acquire, to purchase a generator before being rest assured that they have enough kits to be assembled with gallium in order to run the procedures. With the really strong success of companies like Telix and others, they feel more confident to enter and they feel. They also get the commitment from big pharma, from Novartis and Telix that they will have an ongoing supply for their kits, which had some starting difficulties in the very beginning. It's an ongoing business. Even more they have the reimbursement topic reassured for the time to come. Radiopharmacies in North America do really have the confidence that this is a valuable, constant business, and now entering into the field. There were new pharmacies coming into the business and the others enriching their business. Right you are, if you now look 3 years ahead from today, then there will be some kind of satisfaction in the North American part, unless we will have new compounds in the therapy, which we then need for even more increasing demands and/or what is even more fascinating, that Pluvicto is so effective in the treatment of prostate cancer that it is likely, at least from my naive understanding, that companies like Novartis will put a lot of effort into upgrading their product from economy class to business class, or with other words, from third-line treatment to second-line treatment equivalent to hormone therapy or chemotherapy. If that happens, the increase of Pluvicto sales will be really fantastic, and that also brings in generic companies or competitive companies from Eli Lilly or from others into the market to trying to gain on that field. We are just a stupid supplier, the more companies or the more need in the market is for imaging procedure, the better for us. That's why I'm saying GalliaPharm will continue to grow, next time you come here to Berlin, happy to also show you how we want to expand our production facilities to cope with the increasing demand in the years to come. Can I ask an add-on question? I remember in the past you were selling the generator actually to Novartis, and Novartis actually was supplying it to the radiopharmacies. I mean, that was the case when there was basically only Netspot, right, as a test. Yeah. Now that there are different tests also from different companies, is Novartis still supplying that gallium generator to the pharmacies? Maybe the pharmacy does an Illucix test on it, or how do I have to understand that? No. In the big field, it was a wonderful, it was living in paradise. One customer, Novartis, asking for 100 generators. "Here's the check, please pay." End of story. Now the life has become completely different, in particular, Olivier and his team, they have to write invoices and reminders to each and every pharmacy in South Dakota, which makes life much more complicated or to make sure that- Okay Thank you. I'll be short. Just that popped into my mind when we were talking about the larger volume generators. I wonder what's the replacement cycle of those bigger generators is. Is it the same, 270 days, or is it stretching longer, and what does it mean for the recurrence of the business? Yeah. Yeah. The lifetime of GalliaPharm 100 is longer. In particular for North America, we have a longer possibility, and that applies in particular to the higher volume generator. Now, in strong usage, radiopharmacies, still before the year's end, they will ask for a new one because the... In particular, the pharmacy is having a high demand of imaging procedures, they are using to draft the various times a day, and that brings them into situations that even before the year's end, they are asking for a new one, which is good for them because they have constant high density out of it. For us it's also good because we can then make the recurrent business within a year's time in general. Good. I'm looking around, 37 participants. It's all recorded, so for those, if you want to have it instead of Netflix tonight, have a look again. It's all in 45 minutes, so same length. Otherwise, thanks for participating, for asking questions. Stay tuned, and if you have any more questions, don't hesitate to give us a ring. Thank you and goodbye