Good morning, everybody. I'm David Adlington. I head up the MedTech Research Group for JP in London. It's my pleasure this morning to introduce Helen Giza, CEO of Fresenius Medical. There'll be a Q&A afterwards. Thank you, Helen.
Thank you, David. Good morning, everybody. It's great to be back in San Francisco with you all. The J.P. Morgan Conference marks an important opportunity each year to reflect on progress, as well as to look ahead, and I'm encouraged that the direction we have been setting continues to drive meaningful results. Today, Fresenius Medical Care is stronger, more resilient, and has set a very clear strategy to drive profitable growth and long-term value creation, and has already embarked on this strategy. 2026 will be an important transition year on that journey, with setting a new standard of care in the United States by starting the large-scale conversion of our clinics with a new therapy. I presented this a year ago at this conference, and today the execution is in full swing. I won't read the safe harbor statement. You'll be glad to hear, but it applies here.
What gets lost in all the noise on the different topics is that the fundamentals of the kidney care industry remain intact, largely independent of the broader macroeconomic cycles. Structural drivers, including the aging population, chronic conditions like hypertension and diabetes globally, greater recognition of chronic kidney disease as a significant public health crisis, continue to support the global demand for life-sustaining kidney replacement therapies. We continue to experience higher elevated mortality, especially here in the United States. However, once this normalizes, we see no reason why we would not return to historic growth levels. There's also exciting advancements in pharmaceuticals, as well as their availability, as well as new technologies enabling patients to live longer, healthier lives. The introduction of high-volume HDF therapy in the United States and the support from expansion in value-based care will drive improved patient outcomes, lower mortality, and patient outflow, and will reduce mistreatments.
We are excited about the possibility of uptake in some new drugs, such as GLP-1s. While they are not a cure for chronic kidney disease and only slow down kidney progression towards end-stage renal disease by six to seven months, not years, as a reminder, they do offer significant cardiovascular protection and reduce mortality in the CKD population. A recent study has also shown a significant benefit for dialysis patients. By using GLP-1s while on dialysis, a 23% improvement in mortality for patients has been seen. As the need for kidney care continues to grow, the ability to deliver high-quality, innovative care at scale now matters more than ever. This is what sets Fresenius Medical Care apart. We lead kidney care through exceptional patient care and innovation.
We are uniquely positioned as a vertically integrated business, with all three of our operating segments distinguished by market-leading positions and industry-defining assets. In Care Delivery, we are the global leading provider of kidney care services, with over 290,000 patients and over 3,600 clinics around the world. In Value-Based Care, we manage the largest renal value-based care network, with over $7 billion in medical costs under management, a network of 2,200-plus nephrologists and over 160,000 patient lives. In Care Enablement, we have an industry-leading renal medtech portfolio with a diverse international footprint and commanding global market positions. One out of every two dialysis patients around the world uses our products. In the important in-center HD market, we have a 40% market share for in-center HD products, and in specific markets, we have a market share north of 80%. This reflects our commitment to both quality and innovation.
Individually, each of our operating segments is a market leader in its own right, with compelling scale and market share, but the real value is unlocked when they come together. Care Delivery provides Care Enablement with direct insights into patient needs, which can then be efficiently incorporated into the product development cycle. New technologies can then be implemented by Care Delivery to enhance patient care and drive improved patient outcomes. The importance of Value-Based Care, which meaningfully increases the uptake of best practices that improves patient outcomes, is a key strategic component and an important source of innovation in patient care. These outcomes directly benefit our patients through extending patient lifespan. They serve to increase the number of lifetime treatments per treatment and per patient, a key lever of growth.
I'm incredibly proud of our track record in execution and ability to deliver on the ambitious strategic commitments that we set for ourselves. Since 2022, we have seen a meaningful improvement in our operating performance. Our operating margin increased each year from 7.9% at the end of 2022 to 10.3% through the first nine months of 2025. This was supported by strong momentum in our FME25+ transformation program that should deliver € 790 million in sustainable savings in 2025. We have not just executed, but we have accelerated and enhanced this program. You may remember that we initially targeted € 500 million in sustainable savings through 2025 and increased it to € 790 million. Through 2027, we have now targeted € 1 billion and € 50 million for this program, and I'm confident that we can go even faster here. We have also been increasing shareholder returns.
Our 2024 dividend payment was the highest in the company history and reflects a 13% growth CAGR since 2022. In June of last year, we announced an initial EUR 1 billion share buyback program over two years. We started in August of 2025 with the first tranche. By the end of December, we had successfully completed the first tranche, repurchasing 4.8% of total share capital for EUR 585 million buying back. Our strong cash flow generation on the back of continued business momentum has enabled us to accelerate the initial EUR 1 billion share buyback from two years to less than one year, with the completion expected in May of this year. This demonstrates our consistent execution against our FME Reignite strategy, with a focus on value creation for shareholders in line with our new capital allocation framework. In parallel, we continue to strengthen our financial profile.
We have reduced our target net leverage ratio from band to 2.5 to three times, and since 2022, we have meaningfully reduced our net leverage ratio from 3.4 times to 2.6 times at the end of the third quarter of 2025. Oh, while the early January timing of this conference means we have not yet published our Q4 results, there's still a lot to talk about for the first nine months of 2025. I'm sure you can all appreciate it's this time of year where this year and last year can sometimes get confused. But at our capital markets day in June, we officially launched our new strategy, FME Reignite. As part of our FME Reignite, we carved out Value-Based Care as our third operating segment, recognizing the growth in that business to nearly €2 billion in revenue and to further enhance our reporting transparency.
As I mentioned earlier, we initiated the mentioned € 1 billion share buyback program, reflecting our strengthened financial profile and commitment to delivering shareholder value. In a historical moment, we kicked off the soft launch of our 5008S rollout, introducing high-volume HDF therapy as the new standard of care for the United States. We accelerated our FME25+ savings program with € 187 million in incremental savings through the first nine months of 2025, putting us well on track to achieve the increased target of € 790 million in sustainable savings by the end of 2025. This support is an improved operating performance, with group margin increasing to 10.3% through the first nine months of the year, driven by all three operating segments.
FME Reignite marks the start of a new chapter for Fresenius Medical Care as we transition beyond a phase of turnaround and transformation into a period of accelerated innovation and growth. The word reignite embodies how we will accelerate the realization of the potential of this iconic company. We will reignite kidney care. We will shape and define the future of kidney care. Our strategy comes to life through three strategic elements. One, reignite the core by strengthening our core operations to improve performance. Two, reignite growth and innovation with a focus on profitable growth and bringing new innovative solutions to the market. And three, reignite our culture to develop together and strengthen our culture. These three strategic elements do not only enable us to lead kidney care into the future, but more importantly, also reignite value creation.
This is our path forward designed to achieve our 2030 aspiration of reaching industry-leading mid-teen margins and reigniting value creation with enhancing returns for our shareholders. Our new dividend policy targets a 30%-40% payout ratio, and we are already delivering on our commitment of a regular share buyback program. But what matters now is how FME Reignite translates into execution. A lot is underway already, and I would like to share some highlights. At the group level, we will start investing in 2026 in IT platforms to enable the efficient execution of our FME Reignite strategy. And of course, there is the 5008 rollout strategy, which I will highlight in more detail later on. For Care Delivery, we're advancing to industry-leading margins. This includes driving improvements to realized dialysis rates, and we are beginning to see benefits from our revenue cycle management initiatives.
Volume growth and improving patient inflow and outflow within our control is a key focus, and one way we look to reduce patient outflow is by raising the bar on quality even higher, further enhancing clinical outcomes and patient safety. These initiatives are gaining traction with encouraging early examples from the U.S., such as reducing controllable missed treatments by supporting patient treatment adherence and increasing antimicrobial interventions to reduce infection rates in patients with central venous catheters. High-volume HDF will be another game changer in improving clinical outcomes and reducing patient outflow. For 2026, the 5008S rollout and major conversion of clinics means that care delivery will face an initial transition period and, as a consequence, a more back-end loaded margin improvement toward 2030. In value-based care, we are taking responsibility for the integrated healthcare of our patients and creating mutual value through key quality and outcome initiatives.
One example of this is value-based care's strong results driving optimal starts for CKD patients transitioning to ESRD, with an optimal start rate of 2.5 times the national average. Overall, for the segment, we are progressing on a path to profitable growth and an aspiration of a low single-digit margin by 2030. It's important to remember that revenue growth is largely a function of contract risk type, and whether it increases or even decreases due to a change in contractual risk, that does not necessarily impact operating income contribution. While quarterly volatility remains a factor in this still nascent industry, we do expect more of a continuous margin improvement on an annual basis out to 2030 for value-based care. And in care enablement, we are focused on accelerating profitable growth towards a mid-teens margin aspiration, leveraging our strong global presence and market share.
To enable robust growth and margin expansion, we are driving momentum in commercial excellence and operational efficiencies. We are also focused on driving innovation, and the 5008S is just one example of our innovation pipeline. For Care Enablement, we generally expect more of a continuous margin improvement. HDF is not a new topic for me at JPMorgan, but the difference today is that we are not only talking about it, but we are in full swing with the launch of the 5008S machine in the United States. And HDF might be the best example today of how we leverage our vertically integrated business model to transform the standard of care. This is incredibly exciting for FME as well as the entire industry, including patients, nephrologists, and other providers. It is proven that high-volume HDF treatments result in improved mortality and quality of life for patients.
The CONVINCE study demonstrated a 23% lower risk of death with survival benefits emerging after only three months. This is great news for patients and also supportive of our own volumes and reducing patient outflow given the reduction in mortality as well as missed treatments. The feedback from the first converted clinics is extremely encouraging and rewarding to hear. Patients report feeling significantly better with increased energy levels and improved sleep quality and reduced post-treatment recovery time. Clinic staff have highlighted the benefits of quieter, less stressful workflows thanks to the enhanced automation of the machine, which supports more efficient and patient-focused care. And as we look forward to significantly ramping up our launch, it's important to remember that we are executing this rollout from a position of strength already. In the United States, we have a 90% market share for in-center machines.
Of the entire installed base of 160,000 machines, 145,000 are FME machines, including 56,000 in our own clinics. For the machines in external clinics, we have only a 66% consumable attachment rate today. And with the introduction of the new machine, we have an aspiration for that to grow to 100% by 2030. For 2026 specifically, we expect production capacity of up to 15,000 machines available. In our own clinics, we are targeting to convert around 20% of our machines with the ultimate goal of converting 100% by 2030. I am confident in our ability to successfully execute this launch. However, this is the biggest transition of clinic infrastructure in the history of the company, and it is important that we get it right early on.
This is why we took a very controlled and measured approach with our soft launch in 2025, limiting it to a handful of clinics, which has provided us with valuable learnings and insights, allowing us to further enhance and refine the clinic training and conversion process. In 2026, we are now targeting around 20% of the installed base in our clinics to be replaced with the 5008S, and although the replacement strategy for FME clinics is CapEx light, the first year comes with an OpEx headwind for the rollout costs of a mid- to high double-digit million EUR, depending on the amount of speed of implementation. This is why I'm calling 2026 a transition year. In 2026, we will train over 7,200 nurses and technicians and transition about 36,000 patients to the 5008S machine across 28 states.
This requires significant training effort, but we expect to improve efficiency as the rollout progresses. We will also start to see operational efficiency benefits in converted clinics ramping up after conversion. Additionally, we can then start to transition eligible patients over a couple of weeks from HD to HDF to high-volume HDF therapy. And once they are three months on high-volume HDF therapy, the medical benefits of lower mortality will start to ramp up over the following two and a half years. In 2026, the positive effects will ramp up only towards the end of the year. Hence, the benefits of 2026 rollout will be helping in 2027. And as we proceed with a significant transition in 2027, the efficiencies and improvements in mortality and utilization realized from the 2026 rollout will help mitigate associated costs in 2027.
The year 2026 remains designated as our transition period within the broader multi-year infrastructure upgrade plan. An important dimension of our business that is underestimated is the strength of our cash generation. Through 2030, we expect to deliver operating cash flow above € 2.5 billion annually. As mentioned before, in alignment with our FME strategy, we introduced a new capital allocation framework designed to reignite value creation by driving enhanced shareholder returns. This includes our updated dividend policy and the regular share buyback program. Through September reporting, we are well on track to deliver our outlook for 2025. We expect to be at the very top end of our revenue growth range for 2025. We've also confirmed our operating income guidance of high teens to high twenties% growth, which reflects a meaningful step change in our earnings base.
Through the first nine months of the year, we were already at 18% earnings growth and expect further acceleration in the fourth quarter. In any business that puts and takes in care delivery, reimbursement for phosphate binders has been a strong benefit supporting growth in that business in 2025. In care enablement, we are facing additional headwinds in China from modifications in tender requirements, along with delays in the tendering process. And as you all know by now, we won't provide our outlook and assumptions for 2026 until our full year results on February 24th. However, I do want to give you a sense of the additional moving pieces that we are considering for 2026.
As I just described, the 5008S launch is a major undertaking with OpEx headwinds, and 2026 will be more of a transition year for care delivery, with rollout costs of mid- to high double-digit million euro, depending on the speed of implementation. We are still unpacking underlying volume development through the end of 2025, obviously tracking the current flu season, all of which will help inform our 2026 assumption. Phosphate binders provided an unanticipated benefit for our pharma business in 2025. On our Q3 earnings call, we shared that this additional advantage to be about EUR 80 million, bringing the total benefit to EUR 180 million for the full year. We do not anticipate this additional EUR 80 million benefit to recur in 2026. However, the remaining EUR 100 million is expected to continue into 2026.
As previously communicated, we are assuming a headwind of around €50 million from the expiration of ACA enhanced tax subsidies, and for our Care Enablement business in China, we are currently evaluating the consequences and potential impacts of the modifications in tender requirements for 2026 while further developing our strategic approach in that market. At the same time, we plan to continue with full speed on our FME25 plus savings program and are looking into further potential. Having accelerated by €40 million in 2025 does not impact our €150 million target for 2026. At its core, Fresenius Medical Care is a highly cash-generated business. We have demonstrated strict financial discipline and a clear prioritization of shareholder returns while maintaining an investment-grade credit rating. We operate in a structurally growing market globally, driven by a chronic disease with long-term demand.
What really sets Fresenius Medical Care apart is our vertically integrated business model with market-leading assets and strong competitive positioning across care delivery, value-based care, and care enablement. Innovation is embedded in our DNA, and we are on track to once again set a new standard of care with high-volume HDF in the United States, which creates meaningful benefits for patients and a tremendous opportunity for our business. All of this underpins a clear path to industry-leading profitability and our aspiration of a mid-teens margins profile by 2030. While we have indicated that 2026 will be a necessary transition year as we scale up our 5008S rollout, our execution track record gives us confidence in our ability to deliver. Taken together, this is why we believe Fresenius Medical Care is clearly positioned to drive long-term value creation. With that, I hand back to you, David, for questions.
Great. Thanks, Helen.
One of the discussions we've been having over several years now is just that: is this the volume impact on the industry? Obviously, we had the COVID impacts, and we've not really seen a recovery to pre-COVID levels. Both you and DaVita pointed towards an expectation at this conference last year and the year before of recovery. We still haven't seen it. I think the number of patients coming in has recovered. It's just you're seeing a higher level of mortality. Just wondered any sort of further color around that and what might change that going forward.
Yeah. You can hear me, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. Obviously, in the peak of COVID, we were hit with about 300 basis points of negative volume growth. And obviously, you know, in the last few quarters, we are sitting here now with pretty much flat volume growth.
I'm increasingly trying to put the narrative less about that net number, but really focusing on the inflows and the outflows. Inflows being new patients coming in, outflows keeping patients on therapy or kind of reducing mortality, and you're absolutely right. We don't have an inflow problem. We are seeing new patients coming in. What we have is an outflow problem. Mortality has still remained elevated post-COVID, and at the same time, we have an increasing missed treatment phenomena happening with our patients. The work that we are doing, we have clear line of sight into the work that we need to do in the operations that's really focused on reducing hospitalizations. We've got an increase in catheter usage in our patients.
Work is focused on reducing catheter-related bloodstream infections, reducing hospitalizations, high engagement with patients to kind of reinforce that while you think you might get away with coming two times a week instead of three on any given week, that is not good for your survival outcomes. All that work is starting to take hold and pay dividends. As you saw from the very first slide, we don't believe that the underlying fundamentals of this business are broken. We are actually encouraged by the uptake in the new class of drugs and the cardiovascular benefit that that provides. I think it's just a question of time. All the measures taking hold, and there's no reason for us to believe that we get back to the 2% plus that we saw pre-COVID. It's just a matter of time.
And what's changed the dynamics in terms of the patients trying to reduce their numbers of visits to the clinic?
Yeah, as you can appreciate, we have the world's largest renal database. We have a lot of information and data on our patients, and we have been constantly trying to unpack that what's happening. When we look at our data, what we are seeing is those patients who have been on dialysis for longer and maybe survived the COVID period. Somehow in COVID, many of those patients learned that while optimal treatment is three times a week, every week, we are seeing them skip treatments every now and again. Obviously, that is part of the reason likely for the elevated mortality. Obviously, mortality is still elevated from the severe flu season that we saw in Q2 last year. But people can miss treatments from a whole host of reasons.
Some of those haven't changed, David, as you know, over the years, whether that be transportation, they don't feel well, they just don't feel like coming. So what we're learning is that this has to be one on the local ground, clinic by clinic, and the intimate patient knowledge that a clinic manager has of the patients that are scheduled in their clinic. We need to be on top of those patients' treatment behaviors right away. If somebody's missing a treatment today, we need to be calling them today. We need to get them rescheduled for tomorrow. So we are really through the Care Delivery, kind of fixing many things that needed fixing. We're also realigning that structure within the clinic manager process as well. So we're chipping away at it clinic by clinic, patient by patient, but it is definitely a changing paradigm since COVID.
Okay, perfect. And then you mentioned flu there. Obviously, it's a strange season. Last season it was very severe, but very late. This year, it's ended up being a lot earlier.
Right. I know. Since I've been here in six years, I don't think I've had two flu seasons in the same year. So this one's a first. Obviously, in 2025, we saw flu seasons start in February and go through February, March, and April. And now we've got flu seasons starting in December. What I was encouraged by, and I gave that narrative on the Q3 call, was with the current kind of narrative or rhetoric from the U.S. government on vaccinations, I was honestly concerned that our vaccination levels were going to be lower. Obviously, we have a very vulnerable patient population, so them not getting vaccinated is a problem.
I was really encouraged by, in Q3, that we saw the vaccination numbers high, like in the mid-70s by Q3. That has continued through December. We see now a similar level of vaccinations in our patients by December. What I can also see is a higher number of missed treatments in December. What I can't do yet until I get the six-to-eight-week data lag that we have on mortality is what impact that really had on patients and whether it was just a missed treatment or did it add to mortality. I don't know how much more color we have on that by the time we get to earnings on February 24th, but obviously we're tracking the season closely.
Okay, perfect.
And then one of the things you actually pulled out in the slides, which is helpful in terms of the changes in ACA subsidies and what sort of headwinds that might present next year. Obviously, there's a lot of uncertainty around what might actually happen there. But as we stand today, they've gone. Has that actually impacted patient behavior already?
Yeah, I mean, gosh, you're going to change those subsidies right in the middle of open enrollment, and all that narrative couldn't have happened at a worse time in the kind of insurance system. So we are assuming that the subsidies are gone. While it's still in the Senate, we're not hopeful that that is going to pass. So we're assuming it's gone.
What is going to be really difficult is all of these patients through the open enrollment period at the end of last year had to make a choice. And what we don't know yet are those patients who were already in an exchange, did they stay in an exchange hoping a subsidy might come through, or did they make a shift so that they could be in control of what their outcomes were for insurance? We know our patient population likes to be insured, and we've seen that all through COVID. They're sticky, so we have made an assumption of where we think those patients will go in line with our current patient mix. Enrollment is still open for the exchanges, believe it or not, until January 15th. We won't know what happens to the closers.
There's a further wrinkle that until they pay their first premium or first month of premium, they won't actually get coverage. We really won't know what's going to happen here, I'm thinking, until end of Q1 of where we really see how our patient mix kind of shook out. Yeah, it's a nice one to try and predict. I think we're holding to our assumption of around a €50 million headwind. We'll see once we get the open enrollment numbers.
Perfect. Then one of the tailwinds you've had in recent years is that shift to Medicare Advantage as well.
Yeah.
How are you feeling about that? It's putting on a bit further than you expected originally.
Don't quote me.
But do you see that plateauing here, or is there a risk that it actually moves back the other way?
Yeah, I'm smiling because with the Cures Act in 2021, we were sitting about 16% or 17% of MA. And if you remember, David, I was like, there's no reason to believe that this MA book of business can't get to 35% in three to five years. And yeah, we were there, what, in two years? Yeah. So now we're sitting with a Medicare Advantage book of business at mid-40s%. From what we can see, it looks like that will hold. We're not expecting any major changes up or down. We feel pretty good about the stickiness of that MA book of business. But again, it will be interesting to see if the exchange shakeout has any implication on that too. But we're feeling good about the mid-40s%.
Perfect. And then obviously a lot of focus in this presentation and through last year on HDF.
My favorite topic.
So obviously it's been approved in Europe for a long time.
Yeah.
It's taken a lot. Unusually, it's taken longer to come to the U.S. Maybe you could just for the people in the room, remind us why that is the case.
Yeah. Am I allowed to say before my time? Yeah. No, look, you're right. This technology has been available in Europe for a decade. In Europe, about 75% of the patients are on HDF therapy, and the mortality levels in Europe are around 12%. The CONVINCE study shows that HDF improves mortality by 23%, which directly translates to mortality in the U.S. being around 17%. So we can all see the benefits.
Look, I think this machine, when it was kind of maybe first available for the U.S., was pre-COVID, where volumes weren't an issue, where nobody, I can say before my time, nobody felt like they needed to buy a new, more expensive machine or incur significant cost for training on that new machine. Obviously, that was before the CONVINCE study, so when we think about innovation and connecting the dots on innovation and outcomes for patients, clearly it all came together at a perfect time when I was reevaluating the portfolio I say I inherited when I became CEO, and it was clear that this was a significant opportunity for us, so obviously the CONVINCE study and the FDA approval all at the same time, and then really shaping the future strategy for this has all happened in the last, I guess, last two years.
You mentioned that last year you've had a relatively conservative rollout, and you wanted to learn a lot of things about that rollout. What were the key learnings that you took away?
Yeah, look, we got approval from the FDA for the base guts of the machine, for want of a better word, in May of last year. We also knew that we had this opportunity to upgrade the connectivity on the system side. And rather than rolling it out and then upgrading later, we did make the conscious decision to roll out the version 2.0, if you will, later in the year. We have not had any innovation in this industry in 40 years. This is, as I mentioned in my comments, this will be a significant undertaking. And we wanted to make sure that while it's a similar machine to Europe, it's not exactly the same.
It is U.S. specific. And we wanted to make sure that we could iron out any kinks that might exist sooner rather than later. So our learnings are kind of getting used to the machine, the training. I mean, it's not just a new machine, it's new consumables that are integrated. And then making sure that we could track and see the patient experience and the benefits. So it was deliberate on our part to get it right. As you know, we also plan to sell this to other third-party providers. We want to be the testing ground for that before we sell it. But in all honesty, it's been incredible. I mean, the color that I mentioned in my comments from our patients is real.
I mean, if you and I are sitting in two dialysis chairs and you're on HDF and I'm not, I am saying I want what you're having. It's very, very visible, the benefits. So we're all systems go. I mean, we self-launched last year with a handful of clinics. As you say, we've got about, whatever, I think just under 12,000 machines, and we're off and running. We also have to minimize disruption, right? So we wanted to make sure we weren't doing too much too soon, and if something did go wrong, and such, which it doesn't, that we didn't have kind of massive disruption. I know what that felt like in the summer of 2022. We won't go through that again in this company's history.
And is the plan to convert an entire clinic to the new machine?
Yes, exactly.
So we've been very targeted in the strategy of the launch plan. Kind of we've got 2,600 clinics in the U.S. We are stratifying them by the clinics that are performing well, that they're growing, that they have a high degree of commercial mix. Ideally, they already have an almost fully depreciated current installed base. And then obviously, if we have an opportunity to gain market share in that particular area, that's our sweet spot. So we won't go region by region. We won't go state by state. We will absolutely go clinic by clinic based on that criteria. And that's why we're in Massachusetts, we're in Florida, we're in Minnesota. We are going top clinic to bottom clinic.
Perfect. And do you have evidence that it is actually being used as a way of gaining patients for those clinics?
Maybe too early to tell, but we expect that to be the case. Once we've got a clinic fully operational on this, a big part of the strategy has been the nephrologist engagement, making sure that they are supportive so that they can refer the patients. And if I'm a nephrologist who is all in on HDF, our belief they will refer to us versus a clinic that doesn't have it.
Perfect. And so at what point do you switch supplying only your own clinics to. There will hopefully be some decent demand from some of your competitor clinics.
Indeed. And there's definitely Katarzyna has retired now, but Katarzyna will tell you demand isn't our problem. So obviously, the advantage of being vertically integrated is I want to maximize my first mover advantage, and I want to get it in my clinics first.
We have production capacity for about 15,000 machines a year. We will plan to do about 20% a year in our own clinics. And then the excess that is created through production and our own demand will be allocated to the other providers. And the other providers are welcome to place their purchase orders.
Perfect. Well, I'm afraid we're out of time, but thank you very much.
Thank you. Thanks, everybody.