Earnings Call: Q4 2018

Feb 14, 2019

The conference is now being recorded. Welcome to the conference call regarding the publication of Gennoximer AG's Annual Results 2018. At the moment, all participants have been placed on a listen only mode. The floor will be open for questions Now I hand over to Ms. Severine Compe, Corporate Senior Director, Investor Relations at Gerahema AG. Hi, everyone. Thank you very much for joining us to review our full year 2018 results. So with me today are Dietmar Simpson, our CEO and Rainer Beaujean, our CFO. So as we did in the past, we are presenting a set of slides to accompany our remarks on this conference call. The annual reports, the slide presentation and the press release are posted on the Investor Relations website atkelsheimer.com/investorrelations. Please note that this call is being webcast live as well and will be archived on our website. Before I start, I would like to remind you that the presentations and the discussions are conducted subject to the disclaimer. We will not read the disclaimer, but propose we take it as read into the records for the purpose of this conference call. Our agenda today starts with a presentation by Dietmar and Rainer, and after that, we will enter into a Q and A session. So I'm now handing over to Dietmar. Yes. Thank you, and thank you, Severina, and thank you, and good afternoon. My first presentation as CEO for Gersteiner, to the public, so I'm very happy to be here. I'm also very happy that you are here, and I'm happy that we have a couple of people on the phone. The people who know me actually would rather expect me to stand at the board because I usually prefer to speak freely about the dynamics in the company. But as we have a lot of people on the phone, I would rather be follow the rules here and also, in a certain way, follow the textbook. We will see more later in the questions. So this is my first presentation to the market since I have started as CEO of Gareshimer in November last year, and I'm very pleased to welcome you here in Dusseldorf. With me today, as you heard already, is our CFO, Rainer Beaujean, who will review the 2018 numbers in a moment and is also responsible for all the ugly questions you might have later. I only take the good ones. For that, I would like to share my thoughts on how I see the positioning of Gerasimo today. So I think we are already on the right page. The title of the slide and principle says it all. Having spent almost 3 months within Gerasimer, I'm really pleased to see what I've seen. I've seen a large amount of our plans, discussed with our managers and employees and already met a couple of our customers. And of course, I spent quite some reasonable time with the current management team to ensure a proper transition. Looking at the market, you have to say that we are really involving in a dynamic sector, which offers great potential for future growth, one of the reasons why I'm here. I found a capable and committed team across all regions and businesses, And we have great products, a broad portfolio of great products. And there is a tremendous know how in our production processes. So if you go into our facilities, even for someone coming out of the automotive industry, you have to say it is impressive to see the know how and the core competencies that we have in these facilities. With our global footprint, we can serve all customers worldwide. And the financial fundament, and that's very good, of the company is sound. It gives us room to maneuver. Okay. Turn the page, please. Yes. The next chart is one of my favorites already because you can really explain the whole company in principle on that chart. It's talking about a solid base, and I spoke already about the solid base in place to launch next phase of our journey. As said, there is a strong start, a strong base to start, and there is a solid amount of business identified that will generate growth. In all of our business segments, we see and grasp growth opportunities in plastic and devices as well as in the primary packaging class. And a lot of this business is in the plant is booked already. So it's in the books what we are talking about. On top of this growth, the creation of the advanced technologies and the integration or successful integration of SenCell Medical generates not only fantasy, but offers real opportunities for accelerated growth. We are gaining momentum for the next generation of solutions for the pharma and health care industry, and we are transforming Aerhelsheimer from a contract manufacturer into a solution provider to our customers. Execution has already started to realize this potential. The planned increased level of investment in the next 2 years underlines this and will help to materialize our ambitious midterm plan because it's an ambitious plan. Let's talk about the human capital. I found great human capital at the That also constitutes the DNA of the teams across the entire organization with their strong focus on quality, continuous improvement and productivity. What is important, I have found a solid middle management with a broad industry experience. That is important because, as we all know, Andreas Schutte and Rainer Bouchon will leave us shortly, which I personally regret. On the other side, I'm looking into the future and looking forward, and I'm very happy that the management team that we will complete latest July, and I hope actually it happens a little bit earlier, hopefully also a couple of months earlier. I personally hope that it's earlier that Mr. Doctor. Metzner is able to start in Gerasimer. Doctor. Metzner, currently CFO at Strayer, will join us not later than July in the planning and the handover process has already started. Beside the fact that he's from Strayer, his long years experience actually comes out of the pharma business, and he knows what he's talking about. And another player, of course, Doctor. Burkhard, who leads the glass division, and myself, we will complete the new management team latest in July. Knowing the player, I have already a lot of confidence in the team today, and this is the team that will drive Gerasheimer into the next level. Can we have another chart, please? Yes, I think I would like to have another the next page, if possible. I know the text, but you should have at least the picture to it. It's a good start, but let's turn to Page 8. Much better. Thank you. 1 of the first tasks at Garusama has been to look at the status quo. What do we have and how does the world around us look like? We have, as I mentioned a couple of times, a strong basis. We are highly competitive with market position number 1 to 3 in most of our markets. We have a solid and balanced customer base, and our manufacturing production footprint is very well invested and provides a global assessable platform. Furthermore, the group has been working on enhancing its product portfolio, improving the mix and value proposition. What is shaping our environment are the megatrends. I know everyone is talking about megatrends, but for us they are really relevant. It's worthwhile to look at them. Take if you look at this picture, just two examples, self medication, for example, with smart and convenient devices, we can really contribute to the well-being of the patients with our system solutions. Others, such as ever increasing level of regulations, are pushing us to constantly improve our quality, therefore sustain and further improve our competitive advantage. The ability to cope with these demands, it's a base core competence that we have in GARASSAMA and that increases the barriers for our competition to entry. The clear core competence you would not expect in that size. The next picture is something you probably have seen, the attractive markets. And I think we all know this slide from the last year's presentation. In the context of my initial review, it has been a very important one. My takeaway is very general. The markets within we operate are large, attractive and they are actually growing. Positioning Gerasheim in this market gives us the following picture, and that's the next chart. We have clearly defined the markets where Gary Sommer acts at present and also as important the areas where Gary Sommer is not acting. Looking at the entire pharma value chain, we play in 2 clusters, namely the primary packaging and the delivery systems and assembly. Within these clusters, we are already present in a number of services and markets. That is what we call the assessable markets. But there are other markets with similar characteristics, so called strategic relevant markets. Here we have identified with our core competencies, we have the possibility to enter into these markets into these business fields. As part of any prerequisite from our end to consider strategic market expansion, of course, we have to ensure base pillars like achieving superior technologies and products, cost leadership, also market leadership at least number 1, 2 or maybe position number 3. To maximize these opportunities and derive synergies, we definitely benefit from our comprehensive portfolio across glass, plastics, products, systems and devices, as we present ourselves as a broad solution provider to our customers. Not so different is the picture if you look into the cosmetics. Next chart, please. Here again, you see that we have identified neighboring markets where we could play, for example, in systems delivery. This means, for example, deliver to a customer a cosmetic vial or bottle together with a cap or a pump, something we are not doing at present. This would allow us to move up the value chain with our customers, delivering preassembled components to our existing products. Advanced Technologies. Advanced Technologies is one of the areas I want to further work on with the teams in 2019 as I'm convinced that this could offer additional potential for growth. Why? Because it means expanding our model towards a full solution provider to the pharma industry. With our current capabilities, our R and D and engineering centers and our contract manufacturing operations, we have clearly the base to move further up the value chain. Now we bring product and process know how, development expertise and the new world of connectivity and its possibilities under new defined roof of Gerasheimer Advanced Technologies. What do we do to know about what do we know about the future in this industry? The rise of biotech and biosimilar will go hand in hand with precision injection, both for small and well as large volumes. Digitalization and electronics which paved the way for more efficient health care systems. All players will require a high degree of convenience on how to handle devices, systems, data and so on and so on. With the creation of advanced technologies, we are starting to address these trends. One example, sensor cooperation with Sanofi and Verily, which is in the end Google, is the first add on to the division, but there's definitely more to come. It allows us to be involved much early in the customer development, significantly early actually, and generates more differentiated revenue streams, including royalties, If you compare to the system we have at the moment, that's contract manufacturing. Sensile Medical. We absolutely believe in the value of Sensile Medical. We believe in the value that Sensile Medical adds to our portfolio, and it's a great asset going forward. This is not changed by at all by the loss of one of the initial customers in the SenCell pipeline. As you might have heard and we will probably discuss it later, ST Pharma has terminated the contract a couple of days ago. With the termination on one hand and the defined conditions for the acquisition on the other hand, we will end up paying €90,000,000 less for the acquisition than planned. On the negative side, this will of course impact our expected revenues from 2020 onwards. From a profitability standpoint, it will not affect us in the same way as the specific project was planned with lower margin. Next to the communicated projects during the acquisition, we see the potential for further application from the state of the art system that we acquired with Sensile. And last, we should not forget about how obvious the synergies are between Medical Plastics Systems and Sensile. In the future, it is clear that we will establish medical plastic systems as internal contract manufacturer to Sencyte. The next chart, decisive steps to accelerate mid term growth have been taken to 2018, and that's a matter of fact. Referring to the title of the slide, these are decisive steps indeed and have been taken. Looking at the top left box, syringes, for example, ultimately, we want to have a flagship plan in Duende, dealing with the next generation of syringes and RTF, RTF or ready to fill vials. We have developed the ready to fill 6 line and have just released the CapEx for the increase of the capacity and by the way an absolute impressive technology that we are setting up here. That is fascinating to see for an engineer. It's really impressive, yes. Additionally, within the planning period, we need to set up a new production site for heparin and vaccines in a lower cost environment. It means a new production facility in East of Europe that we will set up in the planning period. Looking at Medical Plastic Systems, we are currently expanding our production facility in the Czech Republic, our Esketuen, and the construction work has started. The closure of Cushnacht, Swiss, is on track for this year. And the new low cost site I just mentioned, Eastern Europe, will also accommodate medical plastic systems products. And we're also ramping up Prime to serve as future CMO or contract manufacturing site for Sensile. Another exciting areas of investment is getting ready for small batch production in glass and also for Sensile in our Technical Competence Center in Wackersdorf. As well as the plastic devices in the U. S. With a spare space enlargement of our technical center in Peachtree City. And finally, we want to drive more automation standardization as well as capacity expansion in PPG means in the glass business. What we do here is we are boosting up the quality and the productivity into this segment. So as you can hear, there's a lot of dynamic in the company, and we are moving things forward. With this, I would like to hand over to Rainer Bouchon for the review of the financials 2018. Thank you. Thank you, Dietmar. And from my end as well, welcome to this results presentation. I would like to be as quick as possible in this review. If there are things that I have omitted in my explanations, please address them in the Q and As or even better with Investor Relations later on, because we want to make sure that Dietmar's conclusion is very intensive and that we have also a lot of questions later on. So moving on with me to Slide number 16 and 17 for some company and market context. A year ago, we told you that our absolute priority after year of 2017, where we lost close 2 percentage points of revenue growth, was to come back to growth. For this, we had identified 4 growth drivers, and I can say that all of them have been successfully performed in 2018, both organically and unorganically. The examples on these slides are by the way for a large part illustrated in our annual report, if you want to be if you want a bit more context. Turning to Slide number 17, we refer here to the IQVIA and market statistics. Volume wise, the global pharma market volumes for medicine standard units remained stable in 2018 and within this, the generics category grew by 1.8%. IQVR is not necessarily applicable nonetheless a good proxy. Regarding the outlook for the next years, IQVIA sees a global volume growth on a compounded average growth rate of above 2 percentage points, but with this disparities amongst geographies between and between pharma versus generics. This supports our view that we need not only to improve market shares, but also to continue to drive our product mix towards more high value products. So how did we perform in 2018 against the spectrum? Please move with me to Slide 18. On the revenue side, excluding Senzaal, if you remember well a year ago, we started with a wide range between 0% of implied growth on a currency neutral basis. After a year, where we lost close to 2 percentage points of growth in 2017, we wanted to be conservative. It worked out well as we finally achieved 3.4 percentage points. We are pleased with this result also when you compare it with volume growth this year. On the adjusted EBITDA side, we have documented the adjustments related to Skvini and the network charges this year. So on that basis, adjusted EBITDA remains at par compared to last year on a currency neutral basis that is at €307,500,000 compared to €307,200,000 last year. This is a good performance when you consider that we have lost close to €6,000,000 due to higher gas prices and close to €5,000,000 due to higher resin prices as documented in our annual report. At Senzaal, the timing of certain projects led to a better adjusted EBITDA than expected and we fell short of €2,000,000 against revenue targets given at the time of the acquisition. As mentioned by Dietmar, timeline can always vary as it is in a project related business. All other metrics were in line with our guidance corridor. Turning on to the next slide for the revenues at constant currency. All detailed explanations are presented at the bottom of the slide so just a few items from my end. In Plastics and Devices, we posted plus 2.7% of growth on a currency neutral basis, and this despite the unfavorable comparison due to the loss of the inhalation contract early on this year. Q4 is usually the strongest in terms of revenues contribution and it was the case again in Q4 2018. Primary plastic packaging and syringes to a lesser extent supported growth. Revenues generation continued to be mixed in devices. We continue to observe some weaknesses in the European inhalation customer base. Regarding Primary Packaging Glass, we continued to benefit from the overall recovery in the U. S. Injectable business, a good cosmetics business and overall good performance in European Glass. All these are trends that we anticipate to further support the business in full year 2019. I just dealt with the Senza in my previous comments. Profitability wise, turning on to the Slide number 20. Here is the same slide as we have shown in Q3 earnings call, which means that we have isolated the performance of the divisions and the impact of the special effects. All explanations are detailed in a comprehensive way at the bottom of the slide, so I just want to mention resin prices. We have temporarily lost up to €5,000,000 of profitability due to higher resin prices. We have continued to activate the pass through clause. The buildup of the new inhaler project started. As mentioned in Q3, this has triggered further investments including OpEx for the end of full year 2018, but also for 2019. Let's come to gas prices. Our costs have been higher by approximately €6,000,000 year on year. We have hedged at the end of at the end and already up to now approximately 65% of our expected gas volume for 2019. I think the rest is straightforward as a result of higher or lower capacity utilization in our divisions and for the nature of revenues of Sendra Medical. A few words on currency. The translations effect came more or less at the level we anticipated during our Q3 conference call, namely the €39,000,000 in revenues and the €9,400,000 on adjusted EBITDA. The impact on a divisional level is detailed on the slide. A note on how we have budgeted currencies for our 2019 currency neutral guidance and more generally our midterm planning. The table is on Page 100 and 5 of our annual report. The U. S. Dollar remains one of our most important currencies. We have taken US1.15 dollars for a euro for our budget assumption and hence currency neutral basis. This is important when it comes to distinguish our currency neutral guidance with the reported numbers. By the way, we have checked the currency sensitivity on the group including Senzaal and the rule of thumb around $1 variation equals €4,000,000 €4,000,000 translation on the revenue side and €1,000,000 on the adjusted EBITDA side still applies. Moving on to our net income bridge. Here again, we have tried to give all explanations in the boxes underneath the bridge. Going back to the currency impact on the next slide, it is important to be in mind that alone the currency impact explains the majority of the negative impact coming from the adjusted EBITDA year on year. The higher one off expenses are linked amongst others to the closure of CRISPR, the severance cost linked to the departure of Executive Board members early in the year, the costs linked to the Senza Medical acquisition project and planned staffing adjustments. This relates to the €16,800,000 you are seeing on the left part of the bridge and show the delta and the one offs year on year. The €49,900,000 of 1 off items represents the total sum of adjusted net income for the year 2018, and they include as well fair value amortization, which has gone up this year as a result of the Sensa Medical acquisition by approximately €10,000,000 Lastly, we have a positive variation coming from income taxes, which is due to the effect from the U. S. Tax reform on a large part. As a result, the adjusted net income after non controlling interest was higher by €50,500,000 in full year 2018 and per share it translate into €5.67 after €4.06 last year. Moving on to cash flow and net debt on Page 24. So on this slide, we show the contribution from operating cash flow and free cash flow. The free cash flow before acquisitions and dividends was €59,000,000 And we had a total cash out of €172,000,000 for Senza Medical and €60,000,000 for Triveni. As a total, net debt amounted to €886,000,000 as of November 30, 2018. A few words regarding Sensal. As mentioned by Dietmar, we now expect only a total of €60,000,000 to be cashed out in the course of 2019 after the cancellation by SC Pharmaceuticals. We have already paid €25,000,000 in December 2018. This means that the total cash consideration will not exceed €260,000,000 compared to the €350,000,000 initially considered. This will have an impact on leverage for full year 2019, and we will discuss this on our liquidity profile on the next slide. As anticipated at the time of the Sandler Medical acquisition in July 2018, adjusted EBITDA leverage was above 3 times as of November 30, 2018, namely 3.1 times. From an accounting point of view, we will record an amount of €90,000,000 as derecognition of contingent consideration from the acquisition of Stenal Medical during the Q1 of 2019. It is accounted for in other operating income and therefore part of the adjusted EBITDA. It is obviously a real cash saving. As a consequence, the adjusted leverage for this year should be lower than 3 times. Before I hand over to Dieter, a word on how we look at the relevant comparable basis between 2019 2018 in order to compare apples with apples. The basis for 2019 guidance is the full year 2018 reported adjusted for the loss of the inhalation customer. For sales, this is approximately €8,000,000 For adjusted EBITDA, it is approximately €12,000,000 including the €9,000,000 compensation on top of contract was canceled. Additionally, we also add back the network charges of €1,400,000 and the effects out of the TUV any put option of €1,100,000 Further explanation can be found in the footnote on Page 106 of the Annual Report 2018. And now I hand it back over to Dieter. Thank you. Thank you, Rainer. Could I get the next chart? Yes, that's very good. Yes, first, I would like before we go into the details of the guidance, actually, I would like to show you how we see the short and the midterm. First, it's an easy point for me, we are here to grow. Our ambition is to outperform the growth of the market clearly. This applies to all segments of our business. We want to do this in particular through market share gains and also winning new customers. Give you a couple of examples. One example for the market share gain is getting a new inhauler contract in Europe. Great performance we delivered in the U. S. With the same customer, and we could win a big order of in haulers in Europe. That will also lead to the fact that we invest into this growth. For customer gain, we actually became the first time number 1 supplier to a new large Hyperin customer also affects BUNDE with volumes in syringes. With innovative solutions such as Elite Glass or the Innosafe syringes system, we are upscaling our product mix with positive effects on revenues. 2nd, we are planning higher investments for 2019 2020 to increase the capacity for new projects and also drive quality and productivity. We have planned 12% of CapEx to sales for the years 2019 2020. And in principle, we are happy to execute this since we have a number of exciting projects in the books. Now we have to make sure that we build the capacity to serve these orders. 3rd, Sensa Medical is expected to generate meaningful part revenues from 2021 onwards. The new development with SG and A is already included in this plan. And finally, with the expected margin contribution from the growth projects, coupled with lower CapEx from 2021 onwards, where we'll go back to this 8% that we originally usually have, the group's operating cash flow will improve significantly. With that in mind, let us look at the next two slides as they outline our financial expectations for 2019 as well as the period 2022 to 2022 for the total group. For the guidance parameters for 2019, We plan to generate between EUR 1,400,000,000 and EUR 1,450,000,000 of revenues on a currency neutral base. For the adjusted EBITDA, also on a currency neutral base, we plan to generate around €295,000,000 plusminus €5,000,000 CapEx, as already mentioned, will be in the range of 12%. As we all know, not every quarter is equal in terms of contribution by experience to our year ending in November, the Q1, which is usually Christmas quarter or it is the Christmas quarter, not usually. It always the Q1 is always the softest and Q4 by experience the strongest. The long term general guidance metrics are unchanged. Next chart. So what are we aiming at in the midterm? We are currently aiming for an annual revenue growth rate between 4% 7% on a currency neutral base for the years 2020 2022. And we see the adjusted EBITDA margin for the group around 21% for 2020%. And then with we will see the performance of the investments in the years now. And we're expecting for the 2 following years a margin improve of 2% up to approximately 23%. From 2021 onwards, we also expect, as I mentioned, the CapEx to go back to historical levels of 8% of sales. And now a few words of conclusion. We are back to almost my favorite charter. As mentioned in the very beginning of the presentation, I have found a strong base. Looking into our midterm plan for the next years, it is a strong plan. And we will make sure that we bring all our effort and will materialize it. I think this is what counts. Moreover, I have taken this job to bring Garexheimer on a strong and sustainable profitable growth path. And beside the execution of the aforementioned plan, we will also focus on this. We will further drive excellence in the company, invest in innovation, increase our customer focus, and we will really switch gears in bringing the company into what I always call an attack mode. In this, we will evaluate which additional segments, products and areas can support us on our path to profitable growth. I personally look forward to drive our Gerasheimer together with the team into a strong future. And I'm now handing over to Severin for our questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. So we're going to now start the Q and A session. I would probably ask if there are first questions from the room here, and then we will switch to Q and A for the conference call. So there are 2 mic one microphone here. So and we're going to start with Daniel van der from Commerzbank. Thanks for taking my questions. 3, if I may. 1, on your operating cash flow development in 2018. I noted that the trade working capital moved up quite considerably. Towards the end of the year, maybe you can comment what is behind that. And my second question would be to you, Dietmar, now that you are a bit more than 3 months with Karasymer. So what was your expectation? And what was confirmed? What was better? And maybe what was worse. So any comment would be much appreciated. And then a question on your planned plant in Eastern Europe. Can you give us more details where that might be? When the decision will be taken? And when will you start building it up basically? Thank you. My answer is pretty easy. Net working capital was higher due to the effect of the very strong Q1 and especially the receivables increase, which we had on that basis. The second question was on I meant 4th quarter, yes. So yes, not 1st quarter. Sorry for that. Thank you for the detail. Yes, the second question to me is a bit personal. What did I really expect? Where were I nervous? There's no doubt. After almost 30 years in the automotive industry, even though it's not completely true because the last year was around 40% nonautomotive, But new in the pharma industry, I was nervous, yes, because in certain ways, you learn new vocabulary. I now work on insulins on different treatment methods. And of course, you have to go into detail. But nevertheless, we should not forget, we are still producing something. So and you come into the detail very fast and better than I expected. Patience is not my biggest strength, but they knew this beforehand. And I think I'm not patient with myself because I really want to be in the details and understand the business well after 3 months. The layer of ice is getting a bit tighter, but I there are certain areas where I'm careful to jump too much. Nevertheless, what you clearly see is and that's not so different to the business where I were in. There is potential, yes. And you have to go out, make sure that the team is hungry and you have to attack the business, and that's fun. And we will have a lot of fun in Karaszhammer in the next years. The plant in the Eastern Europe, yes, we are quite far with the planning and also with the location. And I think there's only weeks, and we have finally decided it. I will disclose it a little bit later. But we are quite far in the planning because we need this plan not only for the contract we have here for the syringes, yes, but also for products of the medical device systems. And the growth that we actually have in the books is so big that we really need this additional capacity and we also need the space. It's not about just putting some new machines into one of the facilities. We need the space. And that's why we will set up this additional plant. Thank you. Perhaps also to add on that, we are also changing our production for after the closure of Christnacht. For sure we need some space somewhere else in order to shift customers to different areas. And also we need space for sensor medical production, also in Freund in Germany. So this all has to be planned, because otherwise it's not possible. And that's one of the reasons why we also looked carefully this year on what we have to do on also the restructuring in the different areas to make sure that our cost base is in the right setting for this new structure. And that's what we all have done in 2018. So therefore, we feel very well prepared to go on further in the future also to make sure that also our profits in the outer years will come to a level which we have forecasted in our guidance. I think maybe we can add also the CapEx we see in the next 2 years. It's not just to make the outside of our buildings a little bit more beautiful, yes. We really need this to set up the capacity. And we talk about the facility in Eastern Europe, but we should not forget that we are setting up a new facility in Brazil, in Aperolis at the moment. I just visited the playground, as I call it, yes, there will be almost 10,000 of square meters of production site here. We're expanding our facilities in the U. S. We're expanding our facilities in India, and there's more examples to come. So the 12% of CapEx will not go into Beauty of the Company only. We will really add capacity for the business we have booked. Other questions from the room? Hakka Braun? One is, you pointed to the higher gas prices and resin prices in 2018. And now gas prices have eased. What is the swing into 2019? That would be the first question. Second is, you mentioned a sound balance sheet, okay, a lower purchase price is good news here in that respect. However, net debt EBITDA is slightly below 3 CapEx, 12% of sales. Question would be, what is the margin of error, let's say, if demand was a bit weak, say, for 2 quarters? What is the sensitivity here? I'll start with the gas prices. Gas and electricity, both together, we have hedged up to now 65%, which is a different story than time. Last time at the same time, we had perhaps approximately hedged 30%. Then Mr. Trump announced this Iran discussion and thereafter all the prices went up dramatically. And that was the reason why because normally we hedge in summer. This year we have got out of this situation, therefore, that we have made pretty early a huge amount of hedging for electricity and gas already in our balance sheet. So therefore, we feel pretty comfortable with the guidance which we give out that we won't have a similar situation again that we will lose approximately €6,000,000 on gas or electricity prices. Second question, lower purchase price. I can do that too. Yes, you can answer it, so I start. So the lower purchase price at the end takes you to the situation that we will have in the Q1 and other operating income, which is part of the adjusted EBITDA of approximately €19,000,000 more. And that's for sure reducing your net debt to EBITDA ratio dramatically, because it's not even lower than 3 times. It will be when you make your calculation, you come to perhaps 2.5 times, somewhere around that. So at least for a year. So that for sure helps us in that situation temporary. But at the end of the day, it's also really the major thing out of that is that this is really a cash saving, because when you look on the contract, the contract what did we buy? We bought a technique. And this contract will build on a risk portfolio. And the advantage is, when you it's never good to lose a customer by the way, don't get me wrong. But the advantage is €90,000,000 if you're pretty comfortable on that. And the other major factors, normally when you have to book another operating income, you normally would expect that we also book an impairment. But this is not the case. When you look on our balance sheet, we only put €5,000,000 of goodwill in our balance sheet. So I can tell you that the headroom above what we have thought about what we can do with this technique is much higher and that's the reason why we don't have to do an impairment, which hopefully, hopefully gives also some comfort that we have also a lot of other projects where we can talk about. Okay. So we got to start by also putting questions from the conference call. And we're going to take the first question from Scott Baader from Thank you for taking my questions, and welcome, Dietmar. Apologies if I missed it, but I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about why you chose Geraschheimer. My understanding is that there could have been multiple different opportunities for you to move into different or even more familiar industries. So what was it that really attracted you to Geraschweimer in particular? And just following on from that, please, Dietmar. You mentioned yourself you've only been at the company, say, 3 months or so. This is a multinational company with many different manufacturing facilities around the world. What gives you the confidence at this point to outline a midterm target or put your stamp on where you see the business performing over the midterm in such a short space of time? Perhaps you can share some thoughts there. And I have a follow-up. Yes. Scott, thank you for the question. The first one is always difficult. The first one ones are always the tricky ones. Why did I choose Garexheimer? Yes, you are right. With the success story I wrote the last time, I had various opportunities. But I also had the freedom to choose, yes? And that was a very good thing. And I choose actually Gerasimer because the environment I saw gave me the biggest evidence that I can write another growth story, and that's why I choose GARISH HAYMER. Yes, I'm only 3 months with GARISH HAYMER. It was a busy time already, but it will also be a couple of more busy months, and I'm not planning anything else because I didn't start here to administrate the business, yes? We have to bring dynamic into the company. The I've seen a lot of sites and looked at the various businesses. Why am I confident with the plan? In a certain way, a lot of the plannings was already done. I could though also influence the planning. But not so difficult to get a good confidence because it's a very solid plan, which is not built on open prey, as I always say. It's built on a lot of businesses that mainly are already in the books. And what we have to make sure now is that we materialize this plan. It's a solid plan. I feel absolutely confident with this plan. And we have to make sure not we that we deliver it. That's the point. Very good. Thank you. And just to ask furthermore, I imagine that you were interested in the SENSO acquisition, which was announced prior to your appointment. Can you talk a little bit more about whether the recent development with SC Pharma has knocked your confidence in this platform to any extent or whether there's any negative read across from the SC Pharma development to any of your other collaborations. So I just really want to understand what happened there and whether there's anything that we should be more cautious of with respect to the rest of your business here. You are addressing an absolute obvious question. Why is a customer stepping out so short in front of a launch? Is there a problem with the pump? Is there a problem with technology? Whatever happened, that's the obvious question. And actually, we raised the same questions, yes? The real reason why SG Pharma terminated the contract are unclear, and I can't answer on that because they didn't give us any detail. What is important, though, is that I have a lot of evidence that the pump, the technology itself is not the reason. And that was also confirmed, by the way, by SJ Pharma. It was also confirmed 1 week later when I visit another very important customer Sanofi, where we are quite far in the development, in joint development. And here, it was confirmed one more time that the pump is the state of the art pump in the market with clear advance to everything else what you see from a complete neutral standpoint, of course. But and gives a lot of advantages. I also worked in with Sensile on projects that are actually not in the projects we communicated during the acquisition. And here also in the first tests we did in this direction, you can clearly see how advanced this technology is. And that gives me clear evidence. So in principle, I have to pick up a point that was at least stressed by Rainer Bourgeault. We should not forget with the acquisition of Sensile, we did not acquire a handful of customer projects. We really acquired the technology. This pump is really state of the art, and it's so simple and genius in its detail and the cost structure is extremely attractive and the accuracy is very attractive, but you can really apply this to a various and broad variety of different treatments. Very good. Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Scott. So we're going to take the next questions from Veronika from Goldman Sachs. Good afternoon and thank you for taking my questions. I have 2, please. The first one is, Dietmar, welcome. I'm curious, the adjacencies that you have alluded to in your opening remarks, these new market opportunities, which one do you think is most exciting? And can you maybe help us quantify the size of these just as we think about the medium term growth in revenue outlook for the business, we can start putting some numbers together. And my second question is also on the medium term, and this is on the margin target of 23% after 2020. Historical margin profile, that would be a meaningful improvement for the business. And maybe you can talk about what are some of the drivers of that margin improvement that you're anticipating over the next 2 to 3 years? Thank you. Maybe I'll take the second question first because it's a relative easy one, yes, because the CapEx or the investments you see in the next 2 years are not only capacity increase, but it's also investment into automation of especially the glass facilities, and that will definitely lead to productivity improvements. And one of the things you see here in 2021 is definitely the result of this higher productivity. On the other side, we are also improving the mix as we have products with higher value levels, our innovation and products, and that will definitely help. So that's what we see here. The yes, Severin just helps me with a side remark, yes. We have a couple of other projects, of course, that are running out with our from lower margin. That helps, of course. Yes, the new market opportunities, some of them are not so rocket science because they are obvious, because the business is already booked, yes? So there's quite some growth coming from business that are there. That's the Heparin syringes business is the big one. Another big one is this inhauler project. But there is a handful of several handful of different other projects. If you look into the classic old business of glass, where everyone always told me they are not growing much and is this the right thing to be in. With the right focus on excellence and also productivity, our competitive level will go up. And we are actually growing in glass, and we will further grow in glass also in the next years to come. So it's some big, call it, big blusters or bonanzas, as I call them, but there's also a variety of other small things that in the end add up to solid growth. And if you allow me to add, when you look on mix management, we have shown you several new products in our portfolio, which also will help us to upgrade our profitability in the next years. Take a liter glass as an example or take RTF vials or ETF vials or all this kind of new products, which are really helping us or Innosafe, they are all high volume, they are all high margin products And they also will help us to increase our profitability going on further. And again, we have with all these upgrades, which we are running currently in Annapolis, in India, in new capacity all over the world, we clearly have the situation that our efficiency is for sure hurt by that and that's the reason why we are not afraid of on top of the scale effect by not keeping the head quarter on the same level going on further. On cost, you have scale effect, you have higher productivity and you have what Dietmar already mentioned, automation as one of the reasons. And that's also the reason what I've said before, why we have for sure also done a certain restructuring here or there to make sure also that from a cost side, we get to a higher level going on first. Okay. That's very clear. And can I just ask a quick follow-up question on the Sensile revenue targets that you had communicated previously? Can you just give us a sense for roughly the $200,000,000 that you were looking for in 2020 following the SC Pharma contract cancellation? What's a more reasonable number for that? Yes. So first of all, when we start and talk about that for sure, SD Pharma was a relevant project, but it is also important that Senzal has and indeed, Moe already mentioned that before, has a very strong product base and a deep pipeline. So and for me, I feel lots more comfortable to talk about the year 2020 because if you remember what we have said during the acquisition of Estevara, we always said we look only on 5 projects as a preliminary indication which we outlined to the market. So we never said this is the only revenue or the other expectation which we have on profitability. For sure, ST Pharma was the 2nd project to come to the market. Always have in mind, the first one is already in the market. So technically, we are marketing currently already a Parkin Bond project in the market. So and that's the reason why 2020 is lots more hurt by this SC Pharma cancellation. So when you look again on our Q2 communication, we have the situation that we have shown there part sales of approximately €55,000,000 And for sure, ST Pharma had a major part of that in the part sales. But also to be clear on that, Sales wise, it was very, very, very important. But profitability wise, when you also look on what comes out of profitability in 2020 that hasn't that didn't have such a huge effect. So and if you make an assumption and you would say from the part sales perhaps 80% or 90% is that what is not there in 2020, then perhaps that's a good assumption. On the other side, longer term, we always said also in our communication that the development won't stop. And that also means we will further have development sales and so on. And that's clearly how we want to work with that and perhaps that hopefully helps you a little bit to give you some flavor what we see, but it's more or less 2020. 2022 is too far away in my opinion to tell you exactly how the situation will look like because as Dietmar said, in 2022, hopefully, we will have other projects and we always that all the projects which we put in are conservatively planned. I come back to my statement before, we have no impairments. We have a lot potential above that even if we have situations that we book in Q1 and other operating income of €90,000,000 That's very clear. Thank you. Thank you very much. We're going to take the next questions from Falco from Deutsche Bank. Firstly, can you share some more color on the assumptions behind your new midterm guidance, so the 4% to 7% growth? What is the assumption for the underlying growth of the business and how much would come from Centaime Medical? Then secondly, can you give us an idea for the potential next steps in the Advanced Therapy segment? What would be your focus areas here in terms of technology additions? And are you willing to use the €90,000,000 you now don't have to pay for Sensile for another smaller acquisition? And then lastly, could you share some feedback on how the SenSile patch pump used in Parkinson is received in the market since its launch? Okay. I have to think first what I do with the EUR 90,000,000. No, for the EUR 90,000,000, this gives us a potential. But honestly spoken, the whole thing is, I think, 10 days old. And I see there's a chance, but I have ideas, but I haven't clear plans how we spend this €90,000,000 But it's definitely an area where our room for maneuver is better again, yes? Rainer mentioned it. By end of this quarter, our leverage will be back on a, what we call, target level of around 2.5. It's much more room to maneuver. So there is a positive side effect. Would I have given up the SC Pharma business easily? No, absolutely not. But we have to look forward with this. The color of assumption for the midterm guidance, yes, I think the risk to repeat ourselves. There's a lot of booked business here. There is the contracts I mentioned, Heparin and also the inhalers. We have plastic business that we've been successfully winning in South America. India, we will have quite significant amount of growth actually in the glass business in India. I'm not talking 10%. I'm more talking 30%, yes? So there's quite some growth there. So there is business that we are able to deliver. What from Sensile? Jean, you might be able to help me. We have to refer to the guidance we gave. And let me help you also a little bit how does it work out. So in terms of base level organic growth should normally be expect for the financial year 2019 2020 to grow with the market of products relevant to us and have in mind, it's not IQVIA. It's in Deepma's presentation, where for instance syringes as well as medical plastic systems should grow with a mid single digit growth. On the other side, the primary packaging glass product should grow with the low single digit growth. On top of that, what I've already mentioned before and Dietmar also mentioned it in his speech, we are expecting another percentage point approximately from product mix. Product mix means a shift from low quality products to high quality products. I mentioned names before, the Elite Glass, for instance, also glass, cosmetics packaging to also go in a different field because here we are also investing a lot as you could see in our strategy. And then on top you have the situation that Censa Medical for sure also will generate some growth based on the situation that we have a starting point. And we also hope that something comes out of the situation. So overall we feel and then on top, we shouldn't forget, we bought no, we bought, no. We got 2 main contracts where we are investing heavily in the next 2 years in and peak sales for the Syringe business. We mentioned with €20,000,000 and peak sales for the inhalation business, we mentioned with €30,000,000 And there's also ramp up, which also will support our growth for the next years. And we almost forget the Parkinson project question. Yes, as you know, in September 2018, we got the CE approval, which is the necessary approval for Europe. And since then, the pump has been very well received in the market with high acceptance of the patients. So we're going to take the next question from David Adlington from JPMorgan. Just wanted to check what your views were on the key barriers to organic revenue growth companies faced over the last 5 years. So I think organic growth has been largely flat over that time period. So I was wondering what the barriers have been and maybe you could just add some further color in terms of how you plan to address that going forward from here. And then secondly, just on Sensile. The €100,000,000 of revenues in 2020200 in 2022, you were happy to give those numbers back out when you did the acquisition. But it sounds like you're stepping back from to 2022 numbers now really. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. I think let me take on the key barriers for growth in the last 5 years. I'm not very good in looking backwards. I'm usually looking forward, but there's no doubt 2017 was negative. In the years before, there was definitely growth in this company. If you look really back, the average growth of Carlsheimer was always in the range of average 4%. What I see in the company is that we gave some business away with lack of focus on customer, with lack of focus on excellence, and that has been improved already, I'd say, during 2018. So it's not only Mr. Simpson coming in, the genius in saving everything. There's also a lot of work already done in 2018 and the result of 2018 in the end confirms this. But there's no doubt, if we want to grow further, we have to further improve our excellence levels and customer focus, as I mentioned before. And if you want to grow, you also have to make sure that you have the right level of innovation in the company to have new products available that are generating growth. The SenSight calculation, I would be happy if you would help me a little bit, Tabojan. As mentioned before, I moved the ugly question to the left. Yes, no problem. As I said before, SC Farmer sales in 2020 were relevant one due to the fact that this was one of the projects which we assumed to start pretty early that can't be taken from the Parkinson project, which is in the market already. So what I said before was that approximately 80% of the parts sales and also some of the royalty sales are at risk in that situation because there won't be another project who can be as fast in the market up to the year 2020. On the other side, as Dietmar already mentioned, this is clearly included in our guidance. And that's the numbers which we have communicated in Q2 were preliminary target numbers. But again, we lost this customer. We have to admit that we will lose the sales profitability wise. It wasn't really relevant because it was more or less disposable business, which we have calculated in. And therefore, we have to accept it. For 2022, we feel more comfortable because we know how we planned other projects and how our situation was at that time when we announced the 5 contracts. So therefore, we feel comfortable that there is a chance to get to better numbers again in 2022 versus 2020 that's challenging. Perfect. Can I just follow-up in terms of the 4% to 7% growth given the 2020 to 2022, should we be expecting that I think that's an average rate over the time period? Should you be within that range for the entire period? Or could you be below that range in 2020 given the loss of SC Pharma and then accelerate beyond 2020? I would rather take it in a way that we start on the lower BAND level and then we move upwards over the planning period. Great. And then just one final one on the cash flow. Obviously, you've got a lot of CapEx going on this year. Just wondered what exceptional cash costs we should also be expecting, and I think net working capital is also expected to go up this year. Yes, for sure. When you look on the exceptional I have the exceptional cost, which you won't have again, for sure. On the other side, we also had on the cash flow the situation that we bought Trivini. And we do have to pay for the whole year because we already paid for the Sensa acquisition €25,000,000 you have to expect that another €60,000,000 is still to come. For 2019, these are the major effects. On the other side, we expect and also one of the things which you have to put in the other operating income, That's what we also communicated at the beginning of the year, last year. The Christmas transaction and here we said that we try to get by selling the land to someone else, the cash in again what we have on the restructuring to make that neutral. So that's exactly how we have to look into it. So we have this as a positive effect coming in, in 2019 on top. If we are able to sell it in the second half of the year, the first part of this Kusknack plant we already sold several days ago and the rest will come later during this year. Great. Thanks, Hartaj. Thank you. So given that we are running out of time, but I would like to give a chance for everybody to ask questions, maybe restrain yourself to 1 or 2 questions. And we're going to take Oliver from Kepler Cheuvreux. Oliver Reimber from Kepler Cheuvreux. Mr. Simpson, also a warm welcome from my side. You mentioned in your introductory remarks that Gelsom has a sound financial position, which gives you room for maneuver. Can you just talk about what role plays M and A for you? And would you also be open for a transformal M and A? Or would you exclude big deals and focus rather on small deals? And also after you sign off now the kind of targets, what are the operational priorities in the next 6 months? That would be question number 1. And secondly, also coming back on Senza, I was obviously also surprised that a client walked away at this stage, but can you give us some kind of background, What kind of contract structures do you normally have? Is the client normally not locking into certain commitments? If you can talk about that, that would be helpful. And finally, if you can also indicate what your organic growth assumption in your outlook would imply for 2019? Thank you. Yes. Maybe I take the first question here with the financial position, what impact on M and A? As bad as this SG Pharma topic is, yes, it brings us definitely back on an area where you have more freedom to maneuver, yes, with the full impact of the Sensile acquisition to EUR 350,000,000 for the next 2 years and the fact that we have a lot of CapEx in the next 2 years. The areas to really maneuver in an M and A action would have been a bit limited, yes? That might not be the case at the moment. Do we have some immediate things? I would say no. And if I had, I couldn't tell you. But we are, of course, permanently monitoring the market, looking into various opportunities. And to answer the second part of your question, they do not necessarily have to be huge. They can be smart and intelligent add ons, for example, in this field of advanced technology, where there's more music in than just, if you can say so, the pump, because in the advanced technology with if you let your fantasy play a little bit more in connectivity and other added value system functions for the customer, there's a lot of ideas you can have. But there's also, of course, always thoughts about expanding certain other areas of the business. That's what we are looking at. But I after 3 months, honestly spoken, that is not that's not my biggest focus at the moment, yes? The contract structure of this individual customer contract, it's a tricky question. First of all, we bought Senzaile and therefore, we also you have to remember that we have structured the milestones according to the risk structure of the project and not regarding their financial impact. This is, I think, a very important statement. So the contracts which we have bought are not contracts Gerasimer has done. For sure, when you look on our structures for Medical systems where we are in the last 3 years before product gets out to the market, then for sure the structure is totally different. You get compensations, you get breakout fees, all this kind of stuff. But in development phases, and that's the situation when you're 6 to 7 years before a product gets to the market, you will have a different contract structure to accept. And that's the risk which we have to take. But we have projects into our portfolio. One was mentioned by Dietmar before, which is the Noffi one. For sure, this is with a customer which we well know. Estee Pharma is a small company. That's a totally different animal in that situation. So therefore, the situation perhaps in this contract is different than with others. And that's what we have to accept. And we decided for this kind of business. We believe that's the right way for our company. And we have to accept that development is one piece of that. And you asked also for Senzyl and how is it in 2019. For sure, there is not more than development sales, which you should assume, which we always set also during the Q2 numbers. And that's the situation also going on further. We always will have development sales as and remember the 3 revenue streams which we have to Senzaile development sales, part sales and royalties. So development sales will play an important role during the next 2 to 3 years, hopefully always. Thanks so much, Steve. And plus some part sales in Parkinson's, for sure. Yes. Thanks so much. Can you actually just confirm the 4% to 7% mid term guidance that's organic, right? For sure, yes. Thank you. So next question from Alexander from Hockenholt Yes, hi. Thank you very much for taking the question. I have first of all, you mentioned that margin or the improvement mix is one of the drivers for margin. Could you kind of give a little bit of flavor how much of those high value products you have already in your portfolio that you sell in relation to the overall portfolio? It will be the first one and then I'll ask another one. So for the mix, for sure, there are several projects already out in the market. You can see them on our website, for instance, the LITE glass. You can see some other projects. Some are still to come. Innosave, for instance, is not there. It will come a little bit later on. It's a widespread in this situation. But this doesn't only come out of mix, the growth and the profitability. Dietmar already said before, it's also automation. So we will further invest into this situation. And on top of that, we also go when we go to Eastern Europe, we're also expecting a different cost base, for instance, than in Christnacht. So we have other situations where we also will have advantages coming out of the movements of our portfolio in this direction. So when we build up our inhalation business in Osovsky Tun, which is our low cost price for medical plastic, so currently that also will help us on the profitability. And also for syringes, Wunder is our high value flagship plant. But to go more eastern for the heparin vaccine business, which we are also currently producing in the Wunder plant, will give us then also different cost base in that situation. On top of that, for sure, we can then put in into the Brundel plant with all the knowledge which we have the RTF vials on top of the RTF syringes. So we have the whole knowledge there. So this is the setting where we have to live with, and that's all in our mind when we put out the numbers. And all the stuff has started. As I said, we have done certain restructuring this year, and we also believe we have a good plan going on further to make sure that we are able to increase its profitability during the next years. And share of revenue that you make with the high value product? We don't disclose that. But as I said, how I said before, and you also can read that in our annual report, in the outlook that approximately 1 percentage points and you will find all that what I've said on Page 106, approximately 1 percentage point comes out of further improvements in product mix. Okay. And then 2 other questions on the outlook. So beyond 2019, you say that you clearly expect growth to accelerate, yet your lower end of the range, which is 4% to 7% for 2020, 2022 is actually considerably below the upper end of 2019 guidance. So how should one think about that? Think about that in the situation that you have to ramp up the manufacturing. We already said before that especially our inhalation business will start first time production in Q4 2020. And for sure, the syringe business starts a little bit earlier. But again, we also need our Eastern European plan for the outer years. So that's how we have to think about that. Okay. And finally, on the kind of FX topic, you mentioned that the comparable figure for your sales guidance, which is based on the fixed rate of 1.15 to 1 is 1,000,000,000 and yet the average exchange rate in 2018 was SEK 1.18. So it's not really comparable number, is it? Or am I thinking in the wrong lines here? Yes. You are right in that situation. So that's the reason why we have said the €115,000,000 is the basis also for next year and also for our outlook. The €115,000,000 is the right number to look at. So you kind of have EUR 15,000,000 at least EUR 15,000,000 headwind on revenue? To forecast currencies, if I understand your question correctly, it's difficult for us currently. For sure, we have the situation. I've seen that other companies are guiding currently 1.14. That would be a positive effect for us. As I said, if you have the rule of thumb in mind, which we normally give out, you have the situation that 1 U. S. Dollar and the U. S. Dollar is the most relevant currency by the way, that €0.01 change would mean €4,000,000 more revenues in that case when it goes down to €1.14 and approximately €1,000,000 on EBITDA are down. The situation in 2017 to 2018 was totally different when you remember when Mr. Trump was elected, how the currencies reacted, that was a situation which was not very stable. But if you ask several banks, they will give you an answer how the situation will look like. We start with 115 and then we will see how this will develop during the year. But that's what I'm saying that using your rule of thumb, based on the guidance you have given with the 1.15 exchange rate given the fact that we had the 1.19 last year, So that would imply that your guidance also assumes up to €15,000,000 to €14,000,000 tailwind, if I do the math correctly. Okay. When you compare that, yes, yes, you can say that, yes. Thank you. Okay. And we're going to take the last question from Christophe from Credit from Wessler. Sorry. Hi. Thank you, Oya. First of all, I just wanted to say hello to Dietmar, all the best, and also to Reiner for his further journey, also all the best. And then I just said actually maybe 2 follow-up questions. 1, I'm not sure whether I got kind of your statement on transformative M and A, whether you actually answered it or not. So but I would be interested what given that you looked at an extended market definition, how you think about that specifically? And then the second question relates to the capital intensity of the business. I understand from my colleagues that, Dietmar, you have been very return focused. So I was wondering what your assessment has been here at the Gatteras Heimer business because I mean in the past, at least from our point of view, it has been very capital intense. We are undergoing another round of capital investment. And of course, there might be opportunities to run this more efficiently also on the capital side. So I was just wondering what your assessment was on that respect. Thank you. Sorry, I had to I didn't fully understand the question. If I understand the question right, you're talking whether we are planning with an M and A strategy, complete transformation of the company. I would rather call it an opportunity driven with opportunities not in a wide range, but also strategic planned. That's why we would also take our time to set up a clear strategy for the M and A. The strategy line of Cove pipeline is, of course, not fully empty because we have not started to work with my start in the company. And we are definitely looking at certain opportunities here. But it's we have to see the opportunity has to come. Also the second question, I'm not sure I fully understood this. In the past, before you came, this there was a lot of CapEx going into the business and with very limited incremental growth and returns. So given that you basically come here new, and I was just wondering whether you had any kind of views about the capital intensity of this business at this stage or maybe in the medium term because, obviously, the projects right now, you cannot influence. But whether there is an opportunity to run the business more capital efficiently, I would say. There's no doubt. This is a capital intense business. If you see our facilities, yes, and you see how you set up a clean room to fulfill the regulations, you understand that it's capital intense, yes? What we do in 2019 2020, where we boost up in principle the investments from what we usually have, let me say, some 8% to 12%, that is, of course, unique. And it's driven by the fact that we need to do these investments. As mentioned a couple of times, on the one side, the capacity increase on the other side, the automation. As long as we grew as we, from my point of view, invest in that level, you can really also expect some growth to come and that we will not do the investments if the growth is not coming. That's what we hope. I mean, again, in the past, it has not been that great, just as a feedback. Yes. I come from the automotive supply industry. We are not usually we are not the guys that have golden headquarters, yes? We invest the money into machines to produce parts. That's what we have to do here as well. Thank you. And all, best luck. Well, thank you very much, everybody, for attending this conference call or this presentation. So that will conclude now our conference call. And if there are any other questions, well, you can address them through Investor Relations. Thank you. Yes. Thank you.