Earnings Call: Q3 2016

Oct 6, 2016

Mrs. Winkler, we can hear you now. Please start the conference. Thank you very much. And sorry for this disruption. So again, hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us to review our Q3 results 2016. With me today are Uwe Rohof, our CEO and Rainer Beaujon, our CFO. As we did in the past, we are presenting a set of slides to accompany our remarks on this conference call. The quarterly report, the slide presentation and the press release are posted on the Investor Relations page of our website at garethheimer.com /investormulations. Please note that this call is being webcast live and will be archived in our website. Before we start, I would like to remind you that the presentations and discussions are conducted subject to the disclaimer. We will not read the disclaimer, but propose we take it as read into the record for the purpose of this conference call. Our agenda for today starts with presentations by Bruno Roohlf and Rainer Bojon. After that, we will enter into a Q and A session. Now it's my pleasure to turn the call over to Ube. Thanks, Nicole. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining our Q3 conference call. Let me start with what is called a subsequent event for our Q3. On September 12, we announced that we had entered into an agreement with Durand Group selling our Life Science Research division. The purchase price will be €131,000,000 on a cash free, debt free basis. As you know, our Life Science Research division is a joint venture between Gareseimer and Che Scientific Glass, a Thermo Fisher company. With the divestiture of the Life Science Research Division, we have now concluded a series of portfolio changes that chartened the profile of Gerasimov. With the acquisition of Centaur, the sale of our Tubing Glass business and now the sale of the Life Science Research division, we have executed 3 major steps within a period of just over 12 months. The result is a very focused product and technology portfolio that provides primary packaging and drug delivery solutions for the pharmaceutical, healthcare and cosmetic industry. Our Life Science Research business has very limited synergies to our core business with a different customer base, a less technology driven value chain for laboratory class products. The divestiture will have an influence on our reporting structure, with 1 of our 3 divisions now being reported as discontinued business according to the International Accounting Standard. We'll talk about that later. More important is that we will continue executing our strategy to deliver profitable growth with a strong approach that drives organic growth in steel products and regional expansion and includes acquisition to support regional expansion in emerging markets and access to drug delivery technologies. Our targets remain unchanged. We just completed another milestone, and we will continue to deliver on what we have promised. So let's now look at our Q3 results. We are presenting a strong set of results, exceeding our expectations on profitability. We saw solid growth in revenues. This is mainly due to the revenue contribution of the report in the reporting period from Centaur, which was not included in the comparative prior year period as the transaction was not closed until September 1, 2015. Organically, we record a gradual pickup in revenues of 1.4% as expected. Our revenues for the 1st 9 months were 1.8% up on the prior year period. Let me remind you that Q3, due to seasonality, is generally not a strong quarter. But last year, it was a very good one. In Plastics and Devices, revenue growth of 27.5% in the Q3 is mainly driven by the first time inclusion of Santo. On top, we had good growth in our parts business, especially with inhalos and principally in Europe. Tubing revenues were also ahead of last year's quarter. Organic revenue growth stood at 3.2% in the 3rd quarter. Specialty tender revenues were somewhat lower than the pro form a prior year numbers due to a shift of promotional activities of our customers to Q4, overall fully in line with our expectations. With primary packaging glass, we had in Q3 2016 a tough comp compared to our unusual good Q3 in 2015, which recorded the highest revenues in the full year. During Q3 2016, we conducted and completed a major expansion of our largest furnace for cosmetic glass compared to a wholly moderate impact of last year's Chicago Ice Furnace project in Q3. Overall, the tubular glass converting segment kept up the positive revenue trend from the preceding quarter, especially in the U. S. On an organic basis, we recorded 0.3% revenue growth in the Q3 of 2016 and 3.1% for the 1st 9 months of the financial year 2016. All in all, the group showed excellent earnings results. We generated adjusted EBITDA of €84,400,000 in the 3rd quarter, which is an improvement of 24.2% on the equivalent prior year figure with an excellent adjusted EBITDA margin of 22.6%. This is better than we communicated at the center acquisition, where we expected an increase of the margin of +2% and a decrease of minus 1% by the sale of our glass tubing business, in net terms, plus 1%. As a margin of 22.6% is well above the adjusted EBITDA margin of 19.8% in the comparable period, there has been substantial improvement in nearly all areas of our core business. Operating activities generated a cash inflow of €45,500,000 in the 3rd quarter, in line with Q3 2015. More remarkably, our adjusted net income improved substantially by 33.1% to €38,700,000 in Q3, and the adjusted earnings per share were up by very strong 40% on prior year quarter and therefore climbing to €1.19 from €0.85 in Q3 20.15. These earnings results constitute a significant improvement in profitability, ahead of our expectations regarding Q3 and year to date. Let me now hand over to Rainer, who will walk you through the financials in greater detail. Thanks, Uwe. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome also from my side. Let's have a look at the revenue developments of the Q3 2016 on Slide number 7. On group level, revenues were up by 8.4% and amounted to €373,100,000 in Q3 2016. This growth was mainly driven by the 1st time inclusion of Centa in the 3rd quarter. In total, we achieved an organic growth rate of 1.4% in the 3rd quarter 2016. The Plastics and Devices division reported a revenue growth by 27.5%, a very good performance mainly driven by Centa and the increase in the parts business driven by inhalers as well as the tooling and engineering business quarter over quarter. Fluctuations in the Tooling and Engineering business are normal and primarily track the billing of large scale customer projects. On a year to date basis, revenues for the tooling and engineering business are at prior year's level. The organic growth rate for our plastics and devices business was +3.2%. The performance of the Primary Packaging Glass division was mainly driven by the sale of our Tubing business in November 2015 and the closure of our plant in Millwin in Q3 2015. On the other side, we had again a good growth, especially in the U. S. Primary Packaging business in the Q3 2016. In the Moldiplast division, a scheduled overhaul to a major furnace in TETAR, Germany held back the growth slightly, notably because only half of the effect of the 2015 Chicago Heights furnace overhaul was accounted for in the prior year quarter. In total, we managed to have only a decline of 8.9% in the reported growth. Organic growth came in at plus 0.3% in Q3 20 16. And finally, in Life Science Research, the 3rd quarter revenues were slightly down by €1,700,000 to now €24,100,000 This is mainly attributable to a still weaker market compared to the prior year period. To summarize, we managed to grow by a good 8.4% in the Q3 of 2016. The development of the 9 months of 2016 were positive and fully as expected. So let's move on to the adjusted EBITDA slide, and that's Slide number 8. The adjusted EBITDA margin amounted to an excellent 22.6 percent. It was therefore clearly above the level of Q3 2015, where it had been 19.8%. Here you see the enhanced earnings power, especially from Centa once again. The group's adjusted EBITDA came in at €84,400,000 in Q3 2016 compared with the €68,000,000 in Q3 last year. In the second line on this slide, you can see that the margin in Plastics and Devices jumped up from 20.6% in Q3 2015 to now 27.9% in Q3 2016, mainly because the high margin sensor business was included the first time. Furthermore, this effect was driven by a favorable cost and productivity trend in the syringe business and to a good customer mix in the PAS business. Therefore, the Plastics and Devices division was clearly the main driver behind the margin expansion in Q3 20 16. As the enhanced earnings power of our business, including center became again clearly visible. In Primary Packaging Glass, the tubular glass converting business sustained its positive margin trend with the margin in the Q3 2016 once again improving. The molded glass business, the margin was slightly down due to the scheduled trends over in Enfeta. Overall, we were able to generate a 20 point 6% margin compared to 22.5% in the prior year quarter, which included the sold glass tubing business and a very tough comp due to Q3 2015 where the furnace repair and sheet card was split between Q3 and Q4. So we are happy with that. We are able to omit offset the now missing contribution from the solid glass tubing business that was still included in last year's Q3. Overall, we are very satisfied with the margin development in Primark Packaging Glass, and we can say that the margin level even surfaced our expectation at the beginning of the year. And finally, in Life Science, we achieved a margin of 13.5% in Q3 2016, which is only slightly below the margin of 14.3 percent in Q3 2015. Don't forget, we had declining revenues of minus 6.5% in Q3. We made this positive effect of this margin possible because of an improved cost position. Overall, we managed to show an excellent margin performance on group level in Q3 2016, not only because of the positive impact from the integration of Center, but also by having positive margin effect through our strong portfolio optimization efforts and strong execution. The clearly improved earnings profile of the business enabled a 2 80 basis points margin growth on group level in Q3. Now to please move on with me to Slide 9. Here you can see that this was a very successful quarter financially. The key points are, as already discussed, adjusted EBITDA was up by 24.2 percent and amounted to €84,400,000 Depreciation was above prior year figure and amounted to €22,000,000 Therefore, adjusted EBITA was up even a bit stronger than adjusted EBITA and amounted to €62,400,000 a plus of 29.3%. Then you see the one offs that we recorded. You can see that now in Q3, we had a total of only minus €4,900,000 in one off effects, which were mainly coming from our already communicated sale of the business of the Life Science Research division. Fees minus €900,000 in one off effects in the Q3 2016 compared to minus €8,400,000 in last year's Q3, which occurred mainly out of the Center acquisition and the Tubing side. While the one offs effects were a lot lower, quarter over quarter amortization of fair value adjustments were up quarter over quarter coming from the effect of the purchase price allocation for Centa. The figure in Q3 2016, including Centa, was minus €9,500,000 compared to minus €3,600,000 in Q3 2015, still excluding Centa. And for the full year 2016, the total Centa effect that you should expect is approximately US31 $1,000,000 Overall, our EBIT grew by US43.9 million dollars in the 3rd quarter and amounted to fifty €2,000,000 Going further down, the net financial expense of €8,800,000 was slightly higher than in Q3 last year, even though we increased our debt level marketing in the meantime. Overall, that is a very good figure, which again underlines the attractive interest rates that we got as part of our refinancing activities last year. Accordingly, earnings before taxes amounted to EUR 43,200,000 plus approximately 50% year over year. Then finally, taxes, which are higher than in the prior year quarter, This is just a consequence of a reversion towards normal 29.5 percent income tax. Actually, now in Q3 2016, the tax rate was 26%. So net income was up by 58.7 percent to €32,000,000 which is an excellent development on the bottom line. So let me now quickly reconcile for you to adjusted net income with a focus on adjusted net income after non controlling interest. This is the basis for our dividend payment. We have that here on Slide 10. The reconciliation can be described in a few steps. I already explained the one off effects and the fair value amortization on the last slide. Here on Slide 10, these two positions are shown in Lines number 23, net of the associated tax effects. The net figures for the add back are plus €400,000 in total one off effects and €6,300,000 in amortization of fair value adjustments. After the add back, adjusted net income was up by 33.1% and amounted to 30 €8,700,000 in the quarter. And so overall, there's a strong increase in adjusted net income after non controlling interest and therefore also in adjusted earnings per share, which is up from €0.85 to €0.0119 per share. With this, we've set a new adjusted earnings per share record for Gerasan in the 3rd quarter. Please move forward with me to Slide number 11, and let's just have a quick look at the development of our net financial debt at the end of August 2016 compared to the previous reporting date on May 31 this year. Overall, the main message is that the net financial debt position was basically down compared to Q2, and we are fully on track to reach our 2017 year end target of 2.5x net debt to adjusted EBITDA. Let's then have a closer look at the key balance sheet and cash flow figures on Slide 12. Overall, the good set of results that we achieved is reflected here as well, meaning our balance sheet remains healthy and cash flow development developed very favorably. Total assets were slightly up compared to May 31, 2016. The balance sheet structure remained essentially unchanged compared to 3 months ago. Group equity increased quarter on quarter and amounted to €725,100,000 as of August 31, 2016. Compared to the last reporting days, the positive net income effect was compensated mainly by changes in foreign exchange rates. Therefore, also the equity ratio increased and came to 30.2%. Let's turn to net working capital. The key number increased slightly quarter over quarter and amounted to €200 and and €43,700,000 at the end of August. Average net working capital in relation to last 12 months. Revenues improved markedly to a strong 16.6%, now already a little bit better than our target of approximately 17% for the whole year 2016 and thereafter. And it means that we are fully on track to reach our 17%. Then looking at the operating cash flow figure in Q3 2016, you see that it came in at 45 point €5,000,000 which is in line with Q3 2015. All three divisions made a positive operating cash flow contribution. And don't forget, as of financial year 2018, we expect the operating cash flow margin to be at approximately 13%, so that would be another very strong improvement. In the line below, you see that we generated €34,100,000 in free cash flow in the 3rd quarter, which was above the €29 300,000 that we generated in Q3 20 15. This again reflects our increased cash earnings power that we now have including the Center business. Finally, looking at the CapEx figures, again, nothing surprising. Everything in line with our expectation. There's nothing to add to that. So overall, solid balance sheet figures at the end of Q3 and the excellent third quarter performance is for sure reflected in the strong cash flow figures. With this, I hand it back over to Ulf. Thank you, Werner. After 3 quarters into 2016, our performance is in line with our expectations for the full year 2016. With the divestiture of our Life Science Research division, we adjust our guidance for the fiscal year 2016 as this segment now has to be reported as discontinued operation according to IFRS 5. In simple terms, from the time of classification, as discontinued operation, all income and expense items in the consolidated income statement are adjusted for the current year and respectively for all comparative periods to be reported upon and are shown separate. The assets and liabilities to discontinued operations are each shown from the time of classification as a discontinued operation in separate items on the assets and liability side for the consolidated balance sheet. For our guidance in relation to revenues and adjusted EBITDA, this means that the revenues and adjusted EBITDA for the current year and the prior year have to be deducted from the expected figures. As a basis for comparison, we have therefore adjusted the figures for financial year 2015 for the result of the Life Science Research Division, 2015 revenues of €100,700,000 and 20.15 adjusted EBITDA of €15,300,000 and taking this into account in our guidance for the financial year 2016. The table on this slide shows the resulting changes for the revenues and adjusted EBITDA. You should deduct the segment figures and come to the new year end target as simple accounting can be. The next slide shows then the consequences of reporting of the Life Science Research Division as a discontinued operation for our year end guidance and as well as our midterm indication. You can read through that also in our quarterly report on Page 1516. IFRS 5 now translates into guidance for 2016 the following way. We expect group revenues to grow to around €1,400,000,000 plus or minus €25,000,000 which correspond to revenue growth of about 10% at constant exchange rates compared with the pro form a financial year 2015 figure adjusted for the Life Science Research division of EUR 1,276,500,000. Organic revenue growth stands at 4% to 5% at V4. Adjusted EBITDA is expected to increase to some €305,000,000 plusminus €10,000,000 in the financial year 2016 compared with a pro form a figure of €262,600,000 in financial year 2015. This is excluding the Life Science Research Division in each of 2 financial years. Capital expenditures in financial year 2016 will, as before, account for around 8% of revenues at constant exchange rates. As has already been communicated, average net working capital is expected to improve by about 2 percentage points in financial year 20 16 to around 17% of revenues. In addition, we confirm our guidance for the financial years 2016 to 2018. In each case, stated at constant exchange rate and once again assuming U. S. Dollar exchange rate of US1.12 dollars to 1 €1. For the stated period, we are aiming for average annual growth revenue growth between 4% 5%. We are raising our target for the adjusted EBITDA margin from previously about 22% to above 22% for financial year 2018. As the adjusted EBITDA margin in the Plastics and Device and the Primary Packaging Glass division is significantly higher than of the Life Sciences Research division now to be sold. Achieve these targets, we continue to assume capital expenditure of approximately 8% of revenues at constant exchange rates through 2018. So TerraZymeR is well prepared for the future because we see very healthy market dynamics supporting our growth with stable and highly diversified growth prospects based on long term megatrends. Our portfolio changes in 2015 2016 and our growth initiative with a number of new products coming to the market in the next year have further improved the robustness of our business model with its enhanced product portfolio, greater regional diversification and an expanded customer base by reducing our cash requirements. Our business is more profitable after our grouping and life science research divestments and including Centor. The Q3 figure makes this visible. We will further focus on deleveraging while continuing to invest in the future of the business to generate high shareholder returns. And if there are interesting opportunities, we are ready to act based on our good financial profile. We are fully committed to move consequently forward on our path to becoming the leading partner to the pharma and health care industry worldwide. Therefore, we have high confidence in the setup of our company, and I am excited about the future of Gerasimo. With that, I would like to hand it back to Nico. Thank you very much for your presentation. Now let's enter into our Q and A session. The lines are open for any questions you may have. So the first question is from Oliver from Kepler Cheuvreux. Oliver Reimber from Kepler Cheuvreux. Three questions, if I may. The first one on the top line guidance for the full year. Basically, you continue to aim for at least 4% organic growth in the full year. So after 1.8% in the 1st 9 months, it basically implies close to 10% in the Q4. Can you just talk about the visibility you currently have? And normally, you don't see this kind of volatility in the business. So the revenues that are expected for Q4, are they clearly underlying business? Or is there any kind of expected stocking effects in there that we should be aware of? Secondly, on the adjustment or upgrade of the 2018 guidance, can you just clarify, is this basically an adjustment for the divestment of Life Science Research? I guess this way at about 40 basis points. And when you say over 22%, does it mean below 23 types on M and A. Can you just update us where you're looking? What kind of tapes on M and A. Can you just update us where you're looking? What kind of size? How close you are? And what do you think about multiplets in Latin America? Thank you. All right. Thank you for the questions. On the top line, I think it's fair to say that if you look at our guidance for the year that we are confident that we stay within the range that we have guided. And I would basically say that on the top line, obviously, the lower end is more likely to achieve. And you're absolutely right, we need a strong quarter. We have a number of effects that can make that happen. Those effects have nothing to do with stocking effects because generally you'll see destocking effects in the summer And you could interpret higher sales in Q4 with higher stocking levels, but we have a number of effects that basically will drive that visibility. But it is fair to say that remains still an ambitious target. On the bottom line side, I would say it's probably the opposite. The way we are tracking and with the numbers we have turned in, I think it is more likely that we end up at the upper side of our guidance. So for the midterm guidance, if we say it above 22%, that is basically what we want to say. Obviously, you did your math correctly on the Life Science contribution. And you can also argue that we have a certain amount of profitability improvements already done this year. But don't forget that this year we have a situation where in the first 9 months top line development was fairly moderate. And with the growth targets we have that also requires a certain amount of investments into new product and new markets that certainly have to be figured midterm guidance. So it's actually we mean what we say, so we mean above 22%. If we would mean 23%, we probably would have said it. On the M and A side, obviously, we continue to look at opportunities. We still have a number of blind spots in emerging markets that we would like to close out on. And we also have a number of areas in drug delivery technologies where we would like to engage into. So we are basically monitoring those markets and stay with the stay close to the potential targets and see if opportunities arise. Generally, our company with a lean set up that we have historically, we have done 1 maximum 2 transactions per year and that is about what we can do. So basically, after having 2 divestitures in the last 12 months, we are looking now more at adding to our business profile. That was mainly behind the voice of Comex. Okay, great. Briefly my follow-up. The I mean, would you agree that the kind of 10% organic growth is an unusual pattern that you normally observe in this business? And has this anything to do with the kind of potential inhaler launch in the U. S? Well, I can actually confirm that we have already expected to 4 contributions from the inhaler launch, but that is fairly moderate compared to that. I think I want to bring your attention to one point that Reiner mentioned in his comments in a way he pointed out that in Q3, we had a relatively soft quarter on Centaur due to promotional activities to move to Q4. So we basically expect those sales to occur actually in Q4. And if you look at our last year's Q4 number, that was probably the weakest quarter on the pro form a number. So that has certainly an impact we had last year €31,000,000 there. And normally we have €38,000,000 or whatever in a quarter. That's one effect. And then you have the effect of Chicago Hyatt furnace in Q4. In Q4, now we have no one. There are major effects. But we still need a very good quarter to get there. That is without a question. But stocking effects are not calculated in here, and we have no mitigation in that level. Great. Thanks very much indeed. Okay. Next question please comes from Torben Teichlath from Hauppenaufrieser. Hello. Thanks for taking my questions. Yes, obviously, this was a really good quarter. The only thing I'd like to or the 2 things I'd like to understand still is, if we look at the implied organic growth you are guiding for Q4, could you provide us with a feeling for how much of that organic growth is actually driven by tooling sales? Because it seems that so far also in Q3, even though you've seen some growth there, the contribution is still not very high or at least it seems like very high. So a split of how much of that organic growth is driven by tooling would be great. And then secondly, with regards to the EBITDA guidance, since you had a very strong quarter now in Q3 and it seems that you've seen or you've managed to implement quite some efficiency improvement, I was a little bit surprised to see that you didn't maybe narrow the range of the EBITDA guidance. Is there anything you see or anything which concerns you that we might not see these efficiency gains again in Q4 or some other one time effects which might play into this? Or is there simply not enough visibility you have on Q4? And why would that be the case? That would be great. Yes. I'll start with the second question. I think we have good visibility on Q4. And as I said, we are comfortable with our prognosis towards the upper range of this. And quite frankly, I'm not going to make a laughing stock out of myself raising the number a little bit in a non meaningful way based on this expectation, I think that is not material. So from that perspective, good point from I think that and I'm glad that you brought that up, is the contribution or the effect of tooling and engineering revenues. We always have said that tooling and engineering revenues will have a higher amount in the second half of the year. And we expect that to be as well the case in Q4 with a certain effect on the margins and that is a lower margin business than the past business. Remember please that in the first half of the year, we have always said we have a favorable mix effect due to a higher parts sales and lower revenues on the tooling side. And obviously, with the tooling side now in the second half becoming a little bit stronger, That will have a slight effect on the margins in P and E. But as I said, at the same time, we expect a very good quarter for Centaur with strong margin. So actually from a I'm not really worried about our bottom line, to be honest. Okay. And but regarding the top line growth you implied for Q4, what would you or to what extent is tooling sales or tooling revenues driving this? Can you give us some sort of indication? No. As I said, we have always said that on the tooling revenues, we are aiming to achieve a prior year's number. And we are fairly confident that this is the case. Actually, we're very confident that this is the case. As well as we have a number of other impacts. But as I said, we need a good Q4 in order to come within the low end of our pipeline. There are no questions. All right. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay. Then we have a follow-up from Daniel Bernoff from Erste Bank. It's one remaining on the Primary Packaging Zest division. And if I look back over the last quarters, the organic growth of that division has been actually quite strong compared to what we observed in the 1 or 3 years before. I know you mentioned a few effects. So what I try to understand, I guess, is how sustainable is this? So how much visibility do you have on the underlying good demand you currently observing for the primary packaging glass? Or is that also due to not many product launches? That's something I try to understand. Any more color there would be very helpful. Thank you. Yes. I think that is a very good point, and I think that we should not forget where we were coming from. In Primary Packaging Glass and particularly in Tubular Glass, we came from a rather difficult situation. We did a number of investments in organization and in technology to drive that. It was actually the Q1 or actually last year Q3 where we really saw the effects coming through the customer with significant growth. And we have continued to do that pretty much now for 4 consecutive quarters. The logic is certainly that once you are done with the catch up effect in this business that the growth level normalizes to what you see in the market. And I think that is if you think about the future of primary packaging glass, that would be a fair assessment that overall and coming going forward, you know that the growth rate here is in the low mid single digit percentage rate. So this year, we are at 3.1%. You have always in the portfolio, you have some wins and some things that don't go so well. So I would say it was a good year for us compared so far compared to others. And then I think we can maintain that we have a number of new products. And the new products, quite frankly, have not contributed yet to the revenue side. The approval phases with customers on new products take fairly long with stability test. Generally, you can only do that with new products. So this is something that will come initially in 2017 and years later on the contribution. And short term, it's basically a primary packaging nut generator in the cosmetic business that has those more volatile ups and downs on the demand. So overall, I'd say we look at it quite favorable, but you always have to keep in mind what is the government. Okay. Yes. Thank you very much. Very helpful. So next is Jan Kepler from HSBC. Yes. Jan Keplar from HSBC. Thanks for taking my question. First question would be on the intended disposal of the Life Science Research business. I was wondering if you could share with us a bit of how you see potential antitrust risks in regard to the transaction. Is that an issue or not given the market position of Duren already? And my second question would be and sorry if I missed that would actually be the question if you could share with us the EBITDA contribution of Centaur in Q3 2016 and maybe also for the 1st 9 months of 2016? Yes. Let's start with the antitrust rig. As you can imagine, we can't comment on that. But we think that's something which is not very big. Otherwise, we shouldn't have said before that we expect that this deal will close, and that's our expectation right now up to the year end, means 30th November. So we're pretty optimistic that they can manage it. And it's, by the way, the only outstanding issue for closing. So everything else is already done. So you were asking for the center contribution. On EBITDA, we had approximately €20,000,000 in EBITDA in Q3. In Q3 and for the 1st 9 months? Overall, for the 1st 9 months, that is altogether one second. It's overall we had in the Q1 of 15.1, 20.2 in the second EUR 20.3 billion in the second quarter. And as I said, roughly EUR 20,000,000 in the last one. So that's all together, Great. Thank you very much. So any further questions? Okay. As there are no further questions, we would like to thank you for joining us today. And please note that we are going to publish our full year results 2016 on February 15, 2017. Thank you so much.