Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Heidelberg Materials half year financial report 2023. Throughout today's recorded presentation, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. The presentation will be followed by a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please make sure to dial into the conference call via telephone and press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. Press the star key followed by zero for operator assistance. I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Christoph Beumelburg. Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you, operator, and welcome to our first half year results call. Great that you're all here. It's been a busy day for all of us, also for you, with a lot of companies reporting. We make it brief. Without further ado, I hand over to Dominic and Rene, who are in the room here. Over to you, Dominic.
Chris, thanks a lot. Hello, everybody on the call. Thanks for joining. I would suggest we go fairly quickly through the slides. You have seen the slides, and then we'll get to your questions, if you don't mind. Overall, for us, a strong operational performance in Q2 and also H1 of 2023. Revenues up 5%, RCO up 18% like-for-like in Q2. Price of our cost was positive. Despite significant volume pressure, we were able to increase the margins. In that respect, all regions are well on their way. We have initiated the third tranche of our share buyback, announced back in 2021. We always promised, we're gonna go for EUR 1 billion in three tranches. Here we go.
We stick to our promise and start the last tranche of the share buyback program in these days, and we will conclude it at the latest by end of this year. On the sustainability side, we make very good progress, 2.4% further reduction on CO2 emission, and I'll come to some more details in a minute. Last but not least, drawing a line under all of this, we are very confident for the second half of the year, and that's why we significantly upgraded our outlook to EUR 2.7 billion-EUR 2.9 billion RCO for the full year of 2023. If you go to page four of our presentation, you see the operational performance.
I think it's fair to say, it's a record Q2 quarter for us in EBITDA and EBIT performance, so beyond EUR 1.2 billion EBITDA and almost EUR 1 billion EBIT for the second quarter. Like for like, revenues were up 5%. For the on page five, if you see the full year, even better, operating EBITDA hits almost EUR 1.8 billion, and operating EBIT, almost EUR 1.2 billion, 38% up like for like to prior year. You see also the comparison to 2021, which is a very strong comparison base.
I think it shows you a little bit to put these big numbers into perspective, that I think it's fair to say this was not a bad start into 2023. Q2 operational performance on page six, you see also a driver for this. Clearly, there is a volume decrease, especially in those markets that are heavily exposed to residential, mainly the mature or developed markets. We stay very focused on managing both our variable costs and our fixed costs, and obviously, also getting the right value for our products. The price of our cost bar remains very positive. That then leads to that significant increase of 18% like for like in the result, and it's pretty much the same picture on page seven for H1.
If we go to page eight, into the regions, you see the details for North America. North America is up in RCO versus prior year and also slightly above a good 2021. We are also in North America, well on our way. I would say there is still some upside from our perspective for the second half. You know that we are ramping up our new plant in Mitchell, which we have switched over during Q2. I would say, again, this plant is running well, and we are very confident that it will be fully on steam in the second half for this year.
Western Southern Europe, I think, continues its good and strong performance, nicely to EUR 214 million and EUR 21 million RCO, then almost EUR 250 million and now almost EUR 320 million. I think we are moving in the right direction in WSE. Also, notably, the strong margin development, a significant step up in RCO margin, on the back of a good compensation of residential decline, but good infrastructure work, good industrial work, and again, all countries, and that's important for us, contribute to this good result development. If you go to NECA, NECA is stabilizing on a very high level, around the EUR 200 million mark for RCO. Margin, again, above 20%, and that in a, I would say, not easy market development. Volumes are coming down in some markets.
we have balanced very well the price, cost, and volume balance in all of the markets in NECA. We are very confident that also for the next half year, NECA will perform on a high level. APAC, you know that APAC has been a little bit of disappointment for the last couple of years because the emerging markets did not really get going. Our Australian performance level was not exactly where we wanted it to be. I think we've really worked with the local teams on improvement, and you see here also the turnaround versus prior year. Significant RCO improvement versus last year, almost getting close to the level of 2021.
Margin is recovering on the back of a stronger performance, especially in Indonesia, which is a very important market for us, you know, and also on a better performance in Australia, despite the fact that the housing market in Australia is pretty much underwater. A lot of housing companies also going belly up. I think in that respect, Australia is performing on a very good level despite difficult market situations. Other parts of Asia also stabilizing. India coming back from lower levels. China remains difficult, but the other markets, Thailand, Malaysia, Bangladesh, are moving in the right direction. High hopes for APAC for the second half. I think there is the trend should be our friend in APAC.
Africa, coming down a little bit on RCO in Euro level from past performances, but I think it's fair to say that there is a significant currency impact in there. Some of this, especially sub-Saharan currencies, and the Egyptian pound is under devaluation pressure. I think things are stabilizing now in Q2. Q1 was very bad in that respect, but now we see a little bit of a stabilization. In that respect, in local currency, the picture doesn't look any bad. There is volume pressure in some markets, but overall, I think the management team in IM is doing a very good job and stabilizing the margin around the 20% mark.
The RCO should also improve in the second half because we're going against a fairly weak comparison base in last year's second half. With that, I would say, Rene, you will take the financial side.
Thanks, Dominic. Hello, everyone, as well from my side. Let's go to the financial slides. Revenue, RCO, Dominic has already discussed. Clean earnings per share go up 16%- EUR 3.64. This is excluding the additional ordinary result. I guess it's a good performance as well. We have, as you know, the share buyback contributes to lower number of shares, so that has an effect as well. Net debt reduction, very solid free cash flow. We come to this in a second. We reduced net debt to EUR 100 million versus last year, June, share the return is around EUR 700 million, which is dividend to the mother company, dividend to minorities, plus share buybacks. Let's go to the next slide. That's the full PNL. Let's quickly go through below RCO.
You have the additional ordinary result, which is a delta of EUR 103 million versus prior year. That's the factor two main topics. Last year, as it is written on the slide, we've impaired the part of our assets in Russia was EUR 90 million, and this year we had some book gains from financial asset sales. As you know, we have sold our joint venture part in Georgia. Here is a positive effect of EUR 40 million, last year, -EUR 63, so that explains the +EUR 100. Financial results, you see last year, -EUR 20, this year, -EUR 100. You know, -EUR 20 after 6 months for the company is very extraordinary low, yeah. Here we had a big one-off, yeah.
As you know, the interest rates went up steeply last year, and discounting of provisions then gives you a positive effect of nearly EUR 50 million last year, which we didn't have this year, obviously. As you know, the interest rate environment has a little bit worsened, so our debt gets a little bit more expensive. As you know, we've issued a bond in January, where we had incur a little bit higher interest. Still, the number of EUR -100, I guess, is very healthy for the size of the company. You go to income taxes, EUR -66. You see above nearly EUR 300 million increase of RCO. If you apply out the tax rate between 20%-25%, that explains relatively easily the delta.
Discontinued operation, last year, we had a one-off of EUR 21 million due to discounting of provisions again. This year, we put a provision for a potential liability in the old legacy Hanson business of EUR 30 million, which explains that delta. The earnings per share then adjusted without AR moves from EUR 3.50- EUR 3.64. Let's go to the next slide, please. Our cash flow, you see there improved, that the green, the green line, by EUR 150 million, roughly, versus prior year. We have a positive effect from working capital of EUR 140 million, and this, to be honest, should continue the next six months. We should improve that year materially versus prior year. Net interest, I explained already.
Taxes paid with a few one-offs in both years. The EUR 314 are as we have planned, it's exactly what we are expecting, so that's not a surprise. Then we come to the CapEx, where we are very disciplined, really on last year's level, so our cash flow is minus EUR 384, minus EUR 5,531. What you see for me, interesting, you know, and important, the cash conversion rate last 12 months, last year was 21%, now we are up to 37%, last 12 months, yeah? We are confident to reach our announced targets by the end of the year, because, you know, we expect very solid cash flow in H2.
If you then go, okay, this we can do very quickly. That's just a summary of the first tranches of the share buyback. As Dominic said, we will start tomorrow with the third tranche, around EUR 300 million, and I guess then we have kept our promise, and we finalize that program in Q4. Next slide, that's a net debt, let's say, reconciliation, put like this. You see the EUR 100 million reduction, yeah? Free cash flow, a reduction of EUR 1.5 billion, then EUR 500 million acquisitions, 330 disposals, and then the EUR 700 million shareholder return. That these are the three columns, and then EUR 514 million counting leasing. Yeah, that's obviously a fixed impact on our cash and on our debt, and leasing additions.
Yeah, that explains a little bit the, the whole net debt. I think now we have a leverage of 1.67, which is a very healthy level already in June. Dominic, I hand over to you for the sustainability part.
Thanks a lot, Rene. Let me take over. There's a couple of slides on sustainability. You know that it's for us, equally important to perform very well on our sustainability agenda. I'm happy to say that the performance is clearly on track. Specific CO2 emissions are down by another 2.4% to just under 540 kilograms. We are well on track for our target of 400 kilograms, which is, I think the most ambitious one in the industry. Again, we are well on track. To get there, the same is true for alternative fuels. You see on the right side, almost 30%, target of 45, is clearly in reach for 2030.
The same is true for clinker and corporation factor, where we are now below 71%. Very good improvement of 1 percentage point. And again, the 68% from our perspective, should be easily reached. Sustainable revenues, we've started to report on those. I think we need to take a step back here, because you can say, "Hey, what does this really mean?" You know, this means that 40% of our total cement sales are below 550 kilograms per tonne, so 30% below the normal CEM I reference point. We are trying to be very rigid on what we are doing. I know there is a lot of branding going left and right, and here and everywhere, very untransparent from my perspective.
We are, we have decided that we're gonna introduce a very rigid framework, a very steep hurdle rate. Just to be clear, our North American Portland limestone cement don't even hit this hurdle. Just so everybody's celebrating Portland limestone cement, which is a key improvement in the US over the past, that is clear, but it is even not included in this 37.8%. This shows you a little bit that, you know, 40% of our portfolio, 40% of our cement portfolio is already below that threshold. We are very focused to push the portfolio into that very sustainable area. That's not only true for cement.
We'll do the same on aggregates and also on ready mix, as we also continue to push our circular approach, especially in concrete and aggregates. Last but not least, I think important progress for us in Germany on our decarbonization agenda. We are based in Germany. It was very clear for us that we want to be also the first one to fully decarbonize a cement plant in Germany, and that's what we will do in Geseke, in the middle of the country, with full support of the local administration, the national administration, and then also in the EU now. The funding will be confirmed by year-end. We are targeting to capture the full CO2 emission on Scope 1 of 700,000 tons of CO2.
We should be in operation by 2029. Important flagship project in our home country, more to come. Stay tuned on these things. Okay, that's it from our side. Chris, I hand back to you, and we are looking forward to your questions.
Thanks, Dominic. Thanks, Rene. We are now opening the line for questions. Operator, please start the process.
Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. If anyone wishes to ask a question, please press star followed by one one on your touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question and queue, you may press star followed by two. If you are using a speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selection. Anyone who has a question may press star followed by one at this time. Please hold. Our first question comes from Elodie Rall, JP Morgan.
Hey, Elodie.
Hey, Elodie.
Hello. Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. I will have just a few. First, very quickly on price cost, you delivered EUR 520 million in H1. Can you tell us what you expect for H2? Second, on the U.S. and the performance there, I was wondering if you could give us a bit more color. I mean, you mentioned weakness in residential activity, but the volume decline there, I think, looks a bit worse than peers, and maybe you can give us the actual volume decline. Is there something about your regional exposure that means performance was maybe impacted and more one-off? Lastly, if I can just ask about, you know, 2025 target, your 2025 target of 2022 margin.
Is this still your target, given the higher inflation, the higher pricing, than at the time of the CMD when you issued that target? Would you think things have changed for that target for 25? Thanks.
Thanks, Elodie. Okay, let me quickly go through those, and then Rene, you can chip in on price over cost if you want. From my seat, LOD price over cost, we are very confident that this will stay absolutely positive for the second half. That's clearly what we are targeting, no change in that in that respect. Yes, from my perspective, I think there is a little bit of a one-off in two dimensions. You know that we have a little bit northern-twisted footprint, all of you have seen the flooding in New York and some of the weather events. I think that's one contributing factor, the other one is the start up of our Mitchell plant in the Midwest.
You know, the start up of these massive plants are never an easy exercise. I think the team has done and is doing an excellent job. We are well on track, but it's fair to say that we also had a couple of weeks delay, as always, in these big animals. I would see for the second half, a clear upside potential in that part around, around the plant, around the new plant in Mitchell, and that then also should close maybe the volume gap that you have indicated. From my perspective, well spotted, LOD. I think that you know the business very well. In that respect, I think that's that's answered.
Clear, yes, to your third question, absolutely the target sticks 22% margin, by 2025. That remains the target. Do you have anything to add on price over cost, Rene?
LOD, as Dominic said, price over cost should be healthy as well for the next 6 months. Obviously, the price data to prior year reduces a little bit because we've increased the pricing last year already, let's say, big time in the second half. On the contrary, you have the energy cost relief, which previously was skyrocketing. I guess the trend should continue.
Okay, thanks, Elodie. We have a lot of people on the line asking questions. Please restrict your questions to two at a time. Next question comes from Paul Roger.
Hey, Paul.
Yeah, hi, team. Hope you're well. Thanks for taking the questions. Yes, okay, I'll keep it to two then. The first one's on capital allocation. Clearly, the balance sheet's healthy, cash generation's healthy. Doesn't look like you've got any obvious demands on your capital in terms of big M&A or anything. I guess the question is, therefore, should we expect more buybacks once the third tranche is completed? Secondly, on Indonesia, a market we used to talk about a lot, maybe a bit less so these days. It does sound like profitability is turning the corner. My question really is how significant you think the recovery potential could be? I think if I'm right, it generates about $550 million, maybe in 2012 or something like that. Could it ever go back to that, for instance?
Okay, thanks, let me, Paul, for your questions. Let me maybe answer and then first round, and then Rene can also answer maybe from his perspective, because he's also part of the Indocement board. I think. On the capital allocation, Paul, I understand your impatience. We are all impatient, but let's do one step after the other, let's. I mean, first, you know, I go a couple of years back, and everybody said, "You never do a share buyback,"? The next argument was, "You will never do all the three tranches because, you know, you're gonna stop halfway and find a good argument," blah, blah, blah.
I think, Paul, for us, you know, we want to deliver on what we promised. We promised the EUR 1 billion, here we are. We are going to do the third tranche, let's see how it goes. When it comes to capital allocation overall, I think it's clear that we have done a lot of organic stuff. Mitchell is one example. Airvault is the other one that are under construction. We always said that M&A is going to continue to be on our radar screen, small, mid, bigger size. No, multi-billion, 20 country exercise that we always excluded, that stays that way. It's clear that M&A remains a possibility for us also going forward.
On Indonesia, you're right. Indonesia went through a couple of years of not so easy days. We are very confident that Indonesia will bounce back. The country is in a healthy position. Our management team is very strong. We continue to work on our footprint. We have a couple of good ideas also on Indonesia in the pipeline. It's our clear target to continue that stronghold. The market is very consolidated. As you know, we have been operating in that market for more than 20 years now. In that respect, we know very well how to manage it. To answer your question, we believe there is a significant upside in Indonesia down the road. Maybe you wanna add.
No, nothing to be added to it, Paul. In Indocement, you know, does it really go back to the 400, whatever that is in 212? I can't tell you, but what I can tell you is we have a very good management team. They, with a superb market position, to be honest. We see in the first six months, it's recovering. I guess, it's on the right track.
That's great.
Thanks Paul.
Thank you very much. Yeah, have a good summer, guys.
Thank you.
Thank you, Paul.
Thank you. next one comes from Gregor Kuglitsch from UBS.
Hey, Gregor.
Gregor, hi.
Hi, hi. How are you? A couple of questions, please. Maybe it's a two-part question. The first one is, can you just actually tell us what your energy cost did in the first half, and today, from today's perspective, what you think it'll do in the second half? Sort of a, I guess, on a year-over-year basis. Similarly on price, and I know that you sort of don't report volumes anymore, but what was actually your realized price? I guess maybe cement, aggregates, or something like that for the half. I guess similarly, assuming kind of you hold pricing, what do you think the half two year-over-year is? We can get a bit of a sense on price cost. Sorry, I'm gonna sneak a sort of two and a half one in, and then the working capital.
Did you say you expect an inflow or less of an outflow compared to last year? Just so we understand what you're saying on working capital, please. Thank you.
Gregor, thanks for your question. Maybe let me start so to give Rene the chance to get to your 2.9 questions. Maybe I'll start with the energy cost, and Rene should then give you the details, because he's always obviously also sitting over the energy buying department. From my perspective, and it's, I think, important for everybody to understand, and that's also something we keep telling our customers: everybody thinks that the energy prices are back to the old days in terms of pre-crisis level. It's not, that is not the case, guys. On the price basis, price only, take volume out, but price base only, we had half-year-over-half-year an increase in pricing.
I think it's 3% or 4% or even 6% increase in pricing on energy. I think in that respect, you know, it's not like, you know, we are back to old days. Also the forwards for the next two quarters of Q4 and Q1 next year are still on electricity. Just to give you one example, in Europe, in Germany, they are still in the EUR 130, EUR 140, EUR 150 per megawatt hour. It's not like the energy prices are collapsing. Rene will give you a little bit the split, how it works between H1 and H2.
On the realized pricing, I ask for your understanding, Gregor, this is a competitive sensitive information, so I can't go into any details around pricing. It is clear that the pricing is compensating fully the cost inflation on the variable and fixed cost side. That, for us, is the core point, that is also clear that then the pricing needs to be in a very significant way up. Otherwise, you won't get to that performance. There are markets where pricing is really significantly up in very healthy double-digit ways. We continue to stay very focused on getting the right value of our products.
There is no, as you all know, there is no global pricing. Market by market, we continue to develop value for our products. That needs to turn into both good margins and then obviously also good revenues.
Gregor, let's talk about energy for the first 6 months, as Dominic said, cost inflation, yeah. Talking cost inflation is up 6.5%, yeah. Obviously then we have a positive volume effect because we are selling less, and we have less cost, clearly, and then the currency as well. Reported energy is down, cost inflation is up 6.5. For the full year, obviously, we have upgraded our guidance. As you have seen, we have good results. The energy costs are, let's say, not as volatile as they've been last year. We are expecting quarter base is obviously lower than last year, but that has lower volumes, that has a currency impact.
As well, from a cost inflation perspective, we see this maybe flat, versus last year, maybe a little bit better. Let's see how that goes. I guess it's that's answer that question. Working capital. Yes, Gregor, my clear target is no cash outflow from working capital. That is clearly the target for every country we have in the group. If we have now a few hundred million EUR inflow, let's wait and see. Yeah, surely we will not have the inflow like we had the outflow last year, EUR 800 million. That is probably, that is, that will not happen because, you know, the cost base is still, is still high, yeah.
We try to target here neutral or a little bit cash inflow, and that would be, I think, a very good improvement.
Thank you.
Thanks, Gregor.
Next question comes from Yassine from On Field.
Yassine.
Yes, good afternoon. Just two questions. First, on the US margin, which were, I think, a little bit disappointing compared to the big increase experienced by your peers. I understand that it's the mitchell that had a bit of an impact. Is it something which is a one-off? If you have one-off cost, is it something that you could quantify? Also, would you expect the situation to resolve in H2 or in 2024? My first question. My second question is just a clarification on your comment about cost inflation. You suggested that cost inflation is up 6.5% in H1.
... and that the full year, it could be stable or a little bit lower. Does it mean that you're expecting cost deflation in H2?
Yassine, let me take the first question, then Rene will take the second one. Answer to your question, yes, clearly, Mitchell is a one-off. It's ramping up, it's already performing in the month of July on a much higher and more stable basis. I think clearly, we expect a significant improvement H1, H2 over H1 from Mitchell. That's also why we are very positive on our NAM performance for the second half.
Sorry, on this, I think you, in the past, you quantified the cost saving that you could generate with your Mitchell plant. Is it something that you could remind us?
No. No, it's, you know, it's everything. I think there is, there is an as you as I said, with the question to LOD, I, you know, there is a volume impact because we didn't get to the production performance that we wanted to in all days. Again, it's more a question of being stable in these new plants. There's nothing new that wakes me up at night because it's clear that this would happen and it's completely normal.
To be just very clear, even with this performance, much better than an average ramp up of a plant of that magnitude, you know, we've done a couple of these projects over the years, so I'm not, I'm not losing any sleep over that. The good news is, it's better in H2 than it is H1, so the effect basically comes from more volume output. You know that for us, that is local volume in the US, and that always comes with higher margins, because the more you go then out to the East Coast, we need to compensate that with, with import, and that, in the end, will then help our local performance and also our local margins. There, we won't put a specific number to that.
Yeah, sorry. I have in mind that the new plant could have a cost efficiency, is going to be more efficient than the previous operation. I have in mind that it may be the cost may be like 20-30% lower, and that you could get savings once the plant is fully operational of something like $20 million-$30 million. Is it something that is still realistic?
This is guys, I have to ask you, this is competitive sensitive situation. We were competitive market in the U.S. We cannot comment on our cost position out of a single plant. I ask for your understanding. We made the clear statement in our Beyond 2020 strategy, that on average, in the group, we wanted to improve by 300 basis points, in North America, we wanted to improve by 500 basis points. We also said that one of the main contributors to that is the Mitchell plant. Now you need to triangulate and try to do your work on that one. From my perspective, Mitchell is gonna be one significant contribution to that margin step up.
Thank you so much.
Yassine Touahri, you are right, question on cost inflation. I was talking about 6.5% cost inflation on only energy in the first six months, not on our total cost base, obviously. You are right, I'm expecting a cost inflation, let's say, de-decrease, or let's say, deflation for the second half of the year, regarding energy.
With a relatively stable energy bill on the full year, so it suggests like some high single-digit energy deflation in the second part of the year. Is that correct?
Yeah, maybe, yes.
Thank you very much. Very helpful.
You're welcome, Yassine.
Thanks, Yassine Touahri. Next is Tobias Woerner from Stifel.
Hey, Tobias.
Hi. Good afternoon, gentlemen and Katharina. Just a question on CCUS or CCS. I mean, last year in the capital markets day, you talked about seven projects costing you CapEx-wise, or implying CapEx-wise, about EUR one half billion by 2030. My last count of CCUS projects was 12. Correct me if I'm wrong. What does that mean for CapEx on that basis going forward? Also, what does it mean with regard to your target of 10 million tons of CO2 capture by 2030? Thank you.
Tobias, let me make a first comment, then maybe Rene answers. You know, there seems to be a little bit of a competition in the industry, who has the most projects. We are not part of that competition.
Maybe Tobias, go on mute, please. Whoever is not on mute. Thank you.
Thanks. That's much better. There seems to be a little bit of a competition, who has the most projects in the industry. We're not competing in that competition. We are very focused on getting things done. Next year in Brevik is the first one online. We stick to exactly what we have said, EUR 1.5 billion for the six projects that we have announced until 2030. Let's deliver on this. You know, for us, it's all about delivery and, you know, quick implementation, large-scale implementation, and that's what our focus is. For us, the number of projects is irrelevant. We have made these very specific. Will there be movement within these projects? Yes, absolutely.
That's why we have, a couple more than, you know, also at the starting line, because we want to make sure that we deliver our targets. For us, as I said, the number of projects is irrelevant. The key is what we bring to, how many of these projects do we make happen in order to contribute to the 10 million ton emission reduction cumulative by 2030, and for the time being, we stick exactly with this target.
May I second? If I may, when you look at your bridge on the RCO side, the volume impact seems to get or has gotten worse. Do you think that should be stabilizing into the second half? Thank you.
I think, to be honest, there is no global answer on this because this is a market by market view. I think there are quite a few markets where there is volume decline, especially in residential. That's what we expect, mainly the mature markets. We do see in some markets stabilization on these volume declines. Again, then it's a year-over-year compensation, so we also go against the lower base over time. There are markets also where there is additional decline. I think it's clear that in residential, in the mature markets, there is a significant reduction.
I would foresee from our perspective at least, a stabilization at a point when the interest rate hikes are coming to an end. You see a little bit the U.S., the Fed latest increase. They indicated that they are coming towards a peak in terms of rate hikes. In the EU, I think there is still a way to go, but as soon as we get to that peak point, then I think the confidence will come back also in the financing side and the consumer side, and also to also drive up residential. You see the first indication here and there in the U.S. already in some markets. From my perspective, you know, is the worst behind us?
difficult to say, but I would say we are closer to the tipping point than we were maybe last year at this time. That's where I would see light at the end of the tunnel on residential.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thanks. From, Brijesh here from HSBC.
Hi, Brijesh. Hey, Brijesh.
Hi. Hi. Good afternoon. I have two as well. Starting with, if you can just give little the FX impact, which you are assuming in your EUR 2.7-2.9 of recurring operating income. The second question is more about the growth prospects with the how things are going now with the cement market, and you are not no more providing volume. Clearly, you are going for value. How should we look in the medium term, when you look at Heidelberg, the top line growth, what should we focus on? Are you kind of committed to a low single, mid-single digit, like for like growth?
That's what you would like to do, either it sells, rather pricing more and a differentiating product.
Thanks a lot. Maybe, Keith, the first one, you wanna do the first one on the FX?
In the guidance, we have an FX down. Also, number included versus last year, roughly EUR 100 million, negative impact of FX is included in that number already.
Okay. On the second one, Brijesh, I think on the growth prospects. You know, what's interesting for me to understand is that the cement lovers are coming back. You know, I think the cement seems to become an interesting business again, that is actually spot on with our strategy because even when nobody loved it two years ago, we said, "Hey, guys, we're gonna hold the line, and wanna stay in this business big time, and really focus on making the decarbonization happen." That, for us, is also the growth prospect, because that will drive value. That's also why we always said volume is, for us, irrelevant.
For us, the value in the end that we drive for our customers is key. We are more confident than ever that we will be able to do this organically, to drive value as we decarbonize our products. This will drive additional value for our customers in cement, in aggregates, in concrete, and its recycling. I think in that respect, we'll turn the products in the cycle, and with that, we see very fundamental organic growth options going forward. Then we'll top that up with acquisitions. As I said earlier, we'll continue to be bold on acquisitions, small, medium, large in that respect, to improve our market positions in the core markets that we are operating in.
We will stay very disciplined around that, but that's clearly the, the, the target, and that is a fantastic growth driver for us going forward. We feel very comfortable with that sweet spot.
Okay.
Thank you.
Sorry. No, Dominic, I just, if I understood correctly, it's more of a market share gain, and you kind of projecting that the smaller with a weaker investments, it will kind of eventually go out of the market?
Not so much about market share. you know, this is again, volume market share. For us, you know, we wanna convince the customers in each market that we have the best decarbonized products on the heavy side of things. I'm absolutely sure that with that, we drive value, and additional opportunities with new customers, new products, for existing customers. That's where the value sits. I'm not so hung up about market share, up and down, 1% or 2%.
For me, again, share of wallet in each customer, and new customer bases on these new products, new decarbonized products, that is, for us, the sweet spot, and there we feel very comfortable, and we see some nice traction, and we'll continue to build on that.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Next, question is from David O'Brien, from Goodbody.
Hi, David.
Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions, guys. Firstly, on Europe, I wonder, could you quantify your volume performance across the two European divisions and against, you know, that weaker volume backdrop? Maybe give us some color on how pricing has evolved or any competitive pressures as they've arisen through the period. Final, kind of, add-on to that, I guess, more generally, across your global operations as the volume backdrop has been a little more challenging as your customers get impacted by costs across the board, have you seen any meaningful shift in the appetite for products with enhanced sustainability versus the more traditional products within your portfolio? Thank you.
Hey, David. Okay, let me start with the volumes in Europe. We said that overall, the volumes are down high single digits, very low double digits. That's a little bit the picture in total Europe, and that's very different segment by segment, very much driven by residential, that in some markets is even down 20% as a market, not necessarily for us. In residential, you see declines in some European markets in that magnitude. And that's clearly impacting the volume side of things in our strong markets in Europe.
On the flip side, I think we've been able to convince customers that, again, this is not a volume game, but this is a value game. That obviously is contributing or driven also by our increased product offering on partially decarbonized products. You saw the discussions around 3D printing. All of these value enhancing applications do find more and more demand. I think in some markets, it's even the case, the demand outstrips supply, and that obviously then also helps to convince customers to get the to dedicate the right value to these products.
As also in Europe, I think there is an interesting dynamic, obviously, everybody knows, you know, the CO2 certificate issue is out there. We are long in CO2 certificates, but we always said very transparently, we're not gonna subsidize the markets by giving away free allowances. We wanna do the investments going forward. We will decarbonize our products and then make this a competitive advantage for Heidelberg Materials down the road in Europe. I think that's for us, the focus.
Thank you.
Thanks a lot.
Thank you. Next question comes from Yves Bromehead, from Société Générale.
Hey, Yves.
Hi, Yves.
Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Just sorry, a quick one circling back to everything you've been saying. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but you expect your energy costs to be down in H2. Your pricing is still quite strong, and we've seen some further price hike in the US. You've got an easier base in the volume side. Putting it all together, it's quite easy to get above your guidance, and I think, you know, consensus is already there anyway. Just wanted to understand, like, what has made you not go above sort of the 2.9 towards the three up. Is there anything holding you back at the moment that you want confirmation of in the third and fourth quarter?
are, I'm at least long enough in the industry, so is Rene also, within the company. We know, you know, I've been running marathons, and, you know, you can. You need to get to the finish line, whether it's a half marathon or whether it's a marathon, and that's exactly how we see it. The year has, at least in our calendar, 12 months, 365 days. We are halfway down the road. We feel very, very comfortable with the guidance we have, we have put out. You have made the triangulation between the different drivers of that guidance. But the year is long, so bear with us, but we are very confident on being able to deliver on that guidance
I think, you see a very confident management team, in order to get well to the finish line in 2023.
Thanks, Yves.
Thank you.
You have another one?
Yes, please. Just on Europe, just wanted to have your view. I mean, you're essentially saying, like most of your competitors, that prices are not coming down, and you're not seeing any signs. However, may I just push you on this and just ask, are your clients, with the volume decline that you're seeing, being more strict about some of the prices they're prepared to pay? Are they sort of more trying to get discounts and rebates by ordering certain volumes that are larger than what you've seen? Is there any sort of sense whereby, you know, there is some discounts that are appearing, even though it's not meaningful?
Yves, from our perspective, again, it's, it's a sensitive topic, that's why I'm just giving you a broad answer. From our perspective, you know, there is a different cost base than pre-crisis level. I gave you all the input factors of energy, higher fixed costs, CO2 certificate costs. Where we feel that we target to continue to drive value for our customers, but then also ask for that value. We do not see in a broad range declines or rebates. You can ask yourself, but from my perspective, if, you know, if there is no single house to be built out there, why should.
You know, even if you lower the price by 20%, if nobody wants to build a house, then why should, whether you ask 100 or 120 for it, won't make a difference. If there is no demand, why should I lower my price? You know, that's the way I think about it. I can't comment for the competition, how they are, how they want to do this and how they are doing this. That's not transparent to us. It's also not what we can manage and what we want to manage. We sweep in front of our own house, we continue to drive value for our customers and ask then also to be rewarded for that.
Thank you, Yves.
Thank you.
We're getting-
Thank you.
Getting to the finish line. Three more questioners on the line. The next one comes from Ravi, from Citigroup.
Uh, thanks. Um, thanks. Uh, most questions have been answered, uh, just one remaining. Um, given the very strong, uh, macro environment in the US, uh, for the next three to four years, um, are you thinking about importing more cement, uh, into the US from your, uh, underutilized operations in, uh, Africa and the Middle East? Um, if, if that's the case, uh, are you also in plan to increase your terminal capacities, and is there any CapEx that's been allocated to that?
You know, that we are a net importer and have been a net importer for many years. That's been a strength of Heidelberg Materials over the years, because it's easier for us to breathe in up and down cycles. It's also clear, and that was one of the reasons to do the Mitchell investment, that it is the most profitable strategy for us to have as much local production as even possible. For us, you know, it's key that we continue to push our local capacity. Careful, you know, we are called Materials. We are not called Heidelberg Cement anymore. That's why, yes, Mitchell is a traditional cement plant, but I've been telling you in the calls before, we made this acquisition for Sibelco.
We've done a significant investment for a slag business in Florida. You know, we are focused on cementitious materials and not on cement and clinker only. I think it's important for you to understand that for us, that's the total cake. With the investment into Sibelco, with the investment into the slag terminal, I think there we also increase our capacity versus the past, which helps significantly our CO2 footprint, which reduces our import needs into the U.S., which improves our margin. That's why we gave the target of 400-500 basis points improvement by 2025, we are well on track to get there.
Thank you.
Thank you. Next question from Jean-Christophe Lefèvre-Moulenc from CIC.
Hey, Jean-Christophe.
Hi, guten Tag. Hi. Just a question on pricing. Could you maybe, as you quantified the volume effect in Europe, maybe could you give us an order of magnitude of the pricing effect in the heavy building materials first? Secondly, the good pricing in 2023 is mainly the price rollover effect of the hikes implemented in November, roughly EUR 30 per tonne in Germany, EUR 20 in France. Can this rollover effect last over the second half? You mentioned no rebates, no decline, can you confirm once again, as some rumors are spreading in Europe, of some price concessions? Many thanks. Vielen Dank!
Jean-Christophe, from our perspective, you know, as with every action, it lasts not forever. From our perspective, the pricing is we are confident that we will also in the second half continue to enjoy a good price over cost situation. Again, for competitive reasons, I ask for your understanding that I cannot comment on any price pricing strategies. Again, they are different market by market, customer by customer, and product by product. You continue, I think it's also important for you guys to understand, you got to continue to see a much larger variety of products, also of pricing patterns from our perspective.
You know, this flat out pricing for one commodity product from my perspective, I've said that before, will come to an end. Our company is already done. We very much focus on specific customer applications, specific geography, specific opportunities to create a differentiating product base. That's why there is not one flat out pricing answer. Again, for competitive reasons, I can't give you any specific percentages for specific markets. Thanks.
Thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Thank you, Christoph.
The last question, one or two questions come from Arnaud Lehmann from Bank of America.
Arnaud?
Hello.
Hello, hello. Thank you for taking my questions. I have two, if I may. Hopefully they'll be quick. Talking about capacity in Europe, have you seen any capacity closure? Are you considering some capacity closure, I guess, as a way to improve utilization rates, pricing power, and maybe reduce CO2 emissions if you shut down the least efficient plant? That's my first question. My second question is on Brevik, the carbon capture. Do you have an updated forecast for the opening? Is it more like Q1 2024 or Q4 2024? Would you mind sharing with us, you know, the successes and challenges? Is everything on track? Have you had difficulties, technical difficulties to get things going, or everything is like you want it to be? Thank you.
Arnaud, thanks. Happy to answer your 2 questions. On the capacity closures in Europe, I can only discuss. I cannot tell you what the industry is doing. That, I don't have the transparency on that. For us, I think it's a constant task to manage our fixed cost base. That is also true for every asset we run, be it in cement, in clinker, in aggregates, or in ready-mix. As the volumes decline in some markets, obviously, we need to review and constantly do so, review our asset base, whether be, you know, permanently or just as an interim, mothball a ready-mix plant, an aggregates plant, part of a cement plant, or a full cement plant. That exercise is ongoing.
It is not a widespread effect of that, but are we taking out capacity here or there, where possible on parts of plants? Absolutely, because that's for us a very proven management cycle to do this as volumes come down, to be very prudent on our fixed cost and variable cost management, and that obviously has to do also with the uptime of the assets. When it comes to Brevik, the ramp up of Brevik will more be more towards the end of 2024. That was also always the target. We set second half of 2024. It is a mega project, that's clear. You know that mega projects have their chances and challenges.
Don't forget, you know, this has always been affected. Nobody talks about this, you know? Everybody thinks this is, you know, this is run through COVID and everything. I think we are not short of challenges in that respect, but that's what we are paid for, Arnaud. We try to mitigate the challenges in this super complex project as good as we can. Is there unplanned things happening? Absolutely, that like in every project. Are there things going better? Yes, absolutely. Bear with us. We still have now more than a year to go. It's a little bit early days.
We are very diligent on doing our very best to get to that, to the 2024 line, and for now, that's the target. Let's wait and see. We are very confident that we will deliver a mind-boggling project for the industry, because again, this is the one and only global project of that scale. That, I think for me also, Arnaud, I think, to be very open, whether this comes 3 days early or 3 days afterwards, this is not the topic, but it's not like there is a 3-year delay on this project, just to be very clear.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Arnaud.
Okay, I think that concludes our call. just a reminder that we will be on the road in September, also attending some conferences, and we have moved our Q3 release date one day forward. We are now releasing our numbers on November 2, instead of November 3, in case you haven't noticed. With that, thanks for dialing in. Goodbye.
Thanks, guys.
Thank you, everyone.
Bye.
The conference is now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.