Hello, and good afternoon. We now come to the last presentation of a long presentation day, and I do appreciate you all sticking with us. We have, last but not least, Krones AG with us, which will be presented by Head of Group Treasury and Group IR, Mr. Olaf Scholz. Maybe interesting to know for all of you who are, just like me, longing for a cold beer after a hot, long day like today, Krones is just in the right business for you, and I'm sure that we will gain some insight on that aspect of Krones' business as well. Olaf, it's all yours. Fill us up, please.
Thanks, Holger. Thanks a lot for the possibility here to present Krones. Also thanks to your team and to mwb for the organization of the whole day. I'm the last one today. It's a hot day. It's not only beer where we are very strong and familiar, but I think this is also a topic of the presentation. What we will see today, perhaps some few words about Krones in general. We have a look after the overview about the markets, the strategy. We have a deeper look also a little into segments. At the end, outlook. I think that's enough for 20 minutes, and then I hope you have some questions, or we will find some topi cs to discuss.
At first, we are the global leader in the filling, packaging of beverages for PET plastic, for cans, and for glass. Not only beer. We are stronger in water than in beer. Definitely 40% of our sales is w ater driven, but also CSD, carbonated soft drink, is definitely also one of our focus. We are also here worldwide. In all over the world, you will see a Krones machine, a Krones filling and package line. Some few countries where we are not, which are too small for a line, but at the end, all over the world. We are mainly in beverages, but also a little in chemical, in pharmaceutical, and in cosmetics segments we will see later. Few words about 2025.
With our more than 20,000 employees worldwide, we realized around about EUR 5.6 billion as in sales to 2025, and with a margin of 10.6% EBITDA margin. The result was a little above EUR 600 million EBITDA. If you see book-to-bill, the receivables versus the sales was slightly below one, but no problem at all. The backlog is more than EUR 4 billion high. As mentioned, as world market leader, every fourth bottle is filled by a Krones line worldwide. Strategy and markets. For you, I think to give you a few where we are, on the left side, you see a picture, that's our core business, filling and packaging. 80% of our sales is in the core business.
We are in the process technology, product treatment, everything a customer would need to produce his drinks, to mix it, heat it, perhaps, also separators . I know there was another company before our meeting. This company is definitely one of the leading position in the world. We are definitely smaller with our just 10% of our sales in the process technology. Beer, yes and no. I will talk later a bit about beer. Intralogistics also here, definitely big players on the market. We are very small. We are focused on automatic picking systems and so on. I think more important here is what are the drivers in the market? What are our drivers? Why we say Krones is in a non-cycle business? Here you see our main growth drivers.
Growing in population in the world, more than 80 million people every year need something to drink. Rising middle class. Also, in many countries, people can drink their first or buy their first Coke, their second beer for the night, and so on. Urbanization. In countries like in China, when many people live in villages, they brew their own tea. They work in the villages, they need a bottled drink. Very important is sustainability. I will also have some slides later for this topic because it's one of our biggest main drivers. Why is it so that the main drivers? This is a package of figures about the beverage consumption. You see here a steady growth of around 3%. 3% every year is a growing of beverage consumption based on the growth drivers I mentioned.
Definitely the biggest one is for water. The 4.8 you see in the middle is water. We are quite strong because you need definitely hygiene bottled water in the future. We talk about regions, not in Germany where you can perhaps drink tap waters. We talk about Africa. We talk about APAC. We talk about South America and so on. Definitely the drivers are hygiene bottled water. You see a sales split of Krones. If you talk about regions going from east to west, China, yes, we have a China business. We are number one also in China for the hygiene bottled high speed lines. High speed is 50,000, 60,000 bottles per hour. Filled PET, or if it's can, it's above 100,000 cans per hour. We have a China business. It's important for us, we are not Chinese focused.
Our sales part, for example, in APAC, Asia Pacific, is bigger definitely than in China. Keep in mind here also countries like Indonesia, where we have 280 million inhabitants. India is included here. If we go a little bit to the west, Middle East, Africa. It's a big share, 12%, 13% in Middle East, Africa. It's not only Middle East, it's also Sub-Sahara in countries like Nigeria, Uganda, and so on, where we have definitely a lot of customers, not only the key accounts in the world, but also strong local customers. Here, for example, we'll see it later also, how many people are there. Krones employees, more than 800 Krones employees, mainly in the sales, mainly in the service, are working for Krones in Middle East, Africa. APAC, 1,300.
If we go a little bit to south, it's South America, mainly driven definitely by Brazil and Mexico. Mexico is a very important country region for us. With a lot of local ones producing, filling in Mexico and still deliver to the U.S. U.S. by itself, yes, you see here a decrease in the percentage, but if you compare it with this growth we have seen on the top line for the group, you see a more stable situation. Also in times when the tariffs are, and also our customers have to pay the tariffs. Important they have to pay the tariffs. It's not Krones, and we do not have any direct competitor. I think perhaps there are some questions about this topic for you.
You see, it's very important for us that we are in every region, that we are quite strong. I would say, yes, every region has some situations, problems, difficulties, challenges, but there's always, we say, one region where the sun is shining. This can compensate at the moment, U.S. compensate a little Middle East, Africa. I mentioned before sustainability, and I know there is a lot of discussion about sustainability in, let me say, the last 12 months. That a lot of industry say sustainability has not the same level as perhaps two years ago. We have two topics here. Number 1, this is what you see in front of you with our acquisition we have done with Netstal, a Swiss company we bought March 24.
We closed the loop, the PET loop, because we have now machines for our customers, you see it on the left, for producing the molds by an injection molding. We have the blow-molding technology to produce the bottles. Our customers can then direct produce their bottle with their design and so on, optimize also the interface. After the secondary packaging, that's a topping and so on, is it a six-pack and whatever, we are also in the recycling technology. If you like, you can definitely close the loop besides TOMRA, because this collection activities we do not have, but you can then close the loop with the PET and with optimized interfaces between. I think that's more or less important.
Also this slide, I think every company has its net zero strategy, also Krones, because our customers have their net zero strategy. Let me say, it's important for them, for Coke, for Pepsi and so on, but it's not only regarding to reach their targets to get the net zero by 2040, by 2030 or 2050. I think more important is if you use the Krones lines, you need less energy, you need less plastic, you need less water consumption, you need less operators. All this helps you to fulfill your target. On the other side, more important, you save costs. Less energy costs, less water, less salaries, and so on. This is definitely, I would say, the two sides of the medal, and both are gold.
This is definitely why we name it the fourth mega trend. It's the economic sustainability. In the middle of my presentation, I want to give you a little bit more details about the segment strategy. It's a very complex topic, the Ingeniq. Ingeniq is a new line generation we published last September at the drinktec, the biggest trade fair we have every three, four years in Munich. Before, it was named the line of the future. This line runs since May last year. It's really not only a strategy on the paper, it's really a sold line running with 104,000 bottles per hour in the PET non-sparkling business. It's in U.K., where our customer fill every day more than 100,000 bottles per hour.
The idea is behind the Ingeniq, it's a connected link between, on the left side, high-end equipment. All the actual newest innovations we have on the market in order to save costs, running costs, TCO of our customers, connected and secured with digital solutions with our after-sales business. We name it Lifecycle Alliance. It's a Modular Service Agreement with different stages at the end of the day, and at the highest stage, we guarantee an output. We do not make a pay-per-bottle model. We guarantee a customer an output if he do this what we tell him. We decide when the maintenance team is coming, what they put in, and so on. We have a win-win situation because focus is still on the TCO of our customers on one hand.
There is a rough calculation. If you see the total TCOs of a filling and packaging line is between EUR 500 million up to EUR 750 million within 10 years. They can save 10% TCOs by this better performance. They have to invest definitely more, have to buy a more expensive engineering line, as well as to make a MSA, Modular Service Agreement with us. Nevertheless, also important to do this is that we have worldwide service people. If you see our people in Krones, the main part is in Germany, definitely. Okay, fair. We have many of our production here. Also, as I mentioned before, a lot of people, more than 800, are in Africa, service people.
In China, we have a small production, but also a lot of more than 1,000 of the employees there are in the service too, and so on. Also 1,600 people in the U.S., but I come few seconds also to this situation. Because on the other side, yes, I know we have a lot of people worldwide in the service, but we have a very centralized production. When you see here in the middle, the 25 figures, two-thirds of our production is in Germany. Just one-third is outside of Germany. At the moment, in Hungary, in China, a little in U.S., in Italy definitely because one of our subsidiaries or the logistic mainly is in Italy. Is it a bad situation? I don't think so. We have a concentrate production. We can use scales.
We invest at the moment a lot in automation here in Germany to have here definitely advantages. What we see on the other side is that other regions, we have to be stronger, with different strategy behind. One is, for example, the U.S. We decided not to go with a big production to U.S. Why? We see no direct local competition there in the filling or in the line business. Also, our two big competitors, KHS, a German one, and Sidel, also have no big line productions in the U.S. Additionally, it's very expensive to have blue-collared employees there, are very expensive. On the other side, we need parts which must be also sent to U.S. also with tariffs. Where is the big advantage? We invest EUR 50 million in a new logistics center with a small production.
We have already, you see it on the right side in Arden, NC, a big production for the Intralogistics part in the U.S. and in the process technology, we are in many states of the U.S. with already a production. Beside that, we have 15%-18% of tariffs which must be paid by our customers. We see at the moment no big advantage. Where we go with the production, what we are doing at the moment, we invest a lot in China and in India. China, we are already, but we increase here our production in order to be stronger at the Chinese market, to be nearer to our competitors. We are the market leader in China. We will be the market leader in China, and we will attack our competitors in China directly with products China for China.
We see definitely India, a very good market for us. A lot of people need something to drink. Regulations are now open since two or three years. That it makes sense also to be there. All these investments, but will just be in the P&L, in the sales, may I would say beginning 2027. Because investments must be finalized, and then we need some months in order to bring the production on a level, not before 2027. Quick view on process technology, and Holger mentioned, yes, if you need a cold beer, process technology has in history a big share in breweries that we have sold project tickets of EUR 50 million-EUR 60 million per big brewery, but at the moment, no business here. We see a weaker business in breweries, in beer.
Yes, perhaps non-alcoholic beer was or is a driver, but not for a complete brewery. This is the reason why you see a smaller top-line growth here. Sometimes also some quarters where it's decreasing because we are concentrating on the other part of the business, which is on the left side, pumps and valves. High margin, definitely. Small tickets, EUR 1,000, EUR 2,000 per pump or valve. Up then, definitely we call it units. All the homogenizers, heat exchangers, decanters, new in our portfolio, and so on. With this, we make a very good margin, and if you see the history in the figuring of the last five, six years, you see a definitely a good job what we are doing. Next is the Intralogistics. Here, just a focus. We are not interested in high-bay warehousing as a big project.
We are more in the automated picking solutions. 60% of the sales in the intralogistic is with the beverage industry. 40% with a lot of other industries, groceries, and so on. We are strong here definitely in the U.S. The market is incredible big worldwide. 60% is of all in the production of not only all our customers worldwide, is not automated. This is a very big market. Once again, we are very small here if you compare with the big players. Yeah. Definitely we make our business. It's a little bit seasonality here. Yeah. It's more at the end of the year where you see more top-line growth and not during the year. Yeah. Coming last but not least, the last two minutes to our outlook.
Yeah. I think you know 3%-5% sales growth, I know looks not so big. Yeah. On the other side, we have last year 2025 7%, before 12%, 9%. It is that we are at the moment limited by our production facilities or by performance. We need our new plants definitely, but they are not online. 2026 is a question for 2027. Also here, currency translation effects, first time we do this. Why? Because if you see Q1 last year 2025, average in US dollar was EUR 1.05. And now this year, EUR 1.17. You see a big difference and that's the reason to make it comparable. It's without currency translation. Margin growth. Yes, 10.7%-11.1%. And the ROCE to 19%-20%. All below is with a disclaimer that we don't see any big problems in the supply chain, for example.
These are the midterm targets around EUR 7 billion in 2028. A margin target of, no, it's a wide range, 11%-13%. We want to grow on one hand and stay in this margin target. That's more important, a profitable growth. That's the key behind. Last but not least, very short, some share informations. Perhaps you know we are owned mainly by Kronseder Family with around 25%. Schadeberg Family also a family, has around about 6%. Free float of 24%. Our dividend policy is 25%-30% of the after-tax is for dividends. We increased this two weeks ago in our AGM. Last but not least, why is it an attractive investment? We are leading in a stable growing market, food and mainly beverages. Our midterm targets are quite clear and named by profitable growth.
We do not talk about the cash topic, but at the end it's a big growth, or let me say a stable situation also in the cash. We have around about EUR 400 million-EUR 500 million net cash. Or let me say, no bank loans. This is very important. A very strong equity also with 42%-43%. Resilient business model, I think, I hope you understand what I mean when I say it's a non-cycle business. We use digitalization. We have more than 600 people. 600 working just for digitalization to implement it in our existing solution, and economic sustainability is definitely the focus with the TCOs. I think, Holger, that's my presentation. Sorry, I need one minute more than planned, but it's up to you if there are questions.
Thanks so much. You could feel the enthusiasm through the microphone, so I very much appreciate the dynamic. It's perfect for the last slot of the day, and I think everybody woke up again and paid attention. We do have a few questions, and I would like to reflect on them, beginning with the first one, talking about automation efforts in the production facility. What do you think is the effect on full-time employees and the P&L coming from that initiative?
Well, number one is we invest at the moment, which means, on the P&L at the moment, not so much. It's CapEx. It's half of the 4% of the sales we invest is here in Germany. Yeah. Is in a new logistic center here in order to automate also our production logistic. Yeah. It's not that we want to reduce our employee amount, if this is the question. It's more growing without growing. Yeah. If you see that we have in the next year's growth rates, yeah, we have contracts, we have a good market on one hand, we need definitely be faster in the project solution and also deliver faster our after-sales. I hope this answers the question.
Yep, it did. I just had to activate my microphone again.
Okay.
You are rolling out capacity in the second half simultaneously in the U.S., China, India. The question is, how do you manage the execution risks that come with it, and will this local sourcing effectively shield margins from trade tariffs or more effectively shield margins from trade tariffs?
If we go at first to China, we are already in China with the production. I don't see any execution risks because we put more. For example, we produce more different machines in China in 2027. It's not second half of 2026. It's the 2027, yeah, where we produce definitely more. I see here lower risk, it's definitely a Chinese product for China, yeah, developed also by our Chinese colleagues. In the U.S., yes, I know that is a kind of risk, keep in mind, we have no competitors there. Yeah. We see we calculated several times last year if we should go to U.S. as a production end, if you see that the salaries are 15%-18% higher than in low-cost country, Germany. Sorry to say this. Yeah. This is the reality. Yeah. What happens in two years?
Growing investment needs minimum two years that you produce a first machine. What is the strategy of the U.S. government in two years? How secured are your investments? Combined that the customers have to pay. I know, but they have no chance. We have seen some month after April last year, Rose Garden presentation some months. The orders were decreasing, but they are coming now back. We see now more growth in the U.S. than in other regions because our customers realized there will be no time without any tariffs. That is the situation.
Thank you. There was one question regarding currency headwinds into Q2, but you have already answered that during your presentation, so I would like to skip it and come to the next questions. There are quite a few questions surrounding growth acceleration to match your guidance for the full year. Let me start out with the first one. Reading that growth, sales growth, I am talking about in Q1, has been at 1.4% versus the full year guidance that is 3%-5%, basically implying that we will see solid acceleration in the remaining quarters and probably in the second half. Is that what investors could expect, should expect. Is that realistic?
Thanks, Holger. At first, 100% right. We have 1.4 growth if we put the FX translation out. If you see it on the segments, you see that we are in the core business in our range, 2%-4% growth. Situation is Intralogistics, where was a negative growth. Where we see a 10%-15% growth for the full year. As I mentioned before, Intralogistics is a business where you make more growth at the year-end. I do not know the details why, but it is in the market a stronger Q4. This is what you see the last five to six years. The strongest growth is definitely in Q4. Number two is also in the process technology we have in our base still in the comparably, still a brewery. We are making now a plant for ice cream. Interesting.
New business for us, definitely more sales here. You see in the core, it's okay. It's more a question of the two other smaller segments. I don't think that we see a big growth in the second quarter. Why? Because it's definitely regarding that we are mainly located in Germany and also in Bavaria. We have a lot of bank holidays. We have Pfingsten, we have Easter in the second quarter. If we have two days more holidays per month, this is the reduction of 10% in performance. This is also what you see that you have more or less in the production a weaker second quarter. I see definitely a stronger second half year and also in the other segment, as mentioned, in order to reach our 3%-5% sales target.
Great. Thank you. I think hand in hand with the acceleration that we will see on the revenue side, the question regarding the EBITDA margin, which was that the question reads 10.8% in the first quarter. Your guidance is for 10.7%-11.1%, that margin expansion that we will see in the remaining year to maybe reach the upper end of the guidance could come from additional sales growth.
Number one, we have the 10.7%-11.1%. Let me this first. Some investors ask me, "What must happen if we have to get 11 this year, 2026?" We need a world without any problems, without negative situations. We are not directly affected in our business, nevertheless our customers are. It's definitely if they have more cost pressures, definitely they can less invest, which means not a direct top line growth, but it then we coming to the mix situation. This is what we always discuss every quarter. How is the mix between machine business and after sales business? We do not publish the after sales figures. It's no secret margin is higher. If you have definitely a mix that with a higher after sales than a machine growth in one quarter, you have a better margin.
This is what you always see in the fourth quarter. Why? Because a lot of our customers make after sales business in the first quarter. Over summertime, when it's hot outside, they produce, they have no time that our colleagues maintain the lines. After summer, September, October, the machines are running 24/7. They need after sales, then the fourth quarter is coming. I don't think that we are at the end of the margin. It's possible, it's everything, to be realistic, a lot of analysts have it more in the mid-size. Then we have still a growth of 30 basis points in the margin. After years with 50 basis points, I think it's a good way in order to reach our margin targets midterm, which is 11%-13% in 2028.
Good. Looking at the time, we're already two minutes over. I do only have two questions left. I would say for those of you who are interested, stay with us. We're going to be done in a very few moments. Just to maybe answer those two remaining questions. One of them also concerning exactly the 2028 guidance that you just referred to or the growth potentials. In 2028, you're targeting revenues of around EUR 7 billion, which is quite a bit versus 2025 and forecast at 2026 growth. If you look at the potential underlying growth rate that you need to accomplish in order to get to EUR 7 billion, what is driving that acceleration and growth in 2027, 2028? You've alluded to that in your presentation, but maybe just as a quick wrap-up.
Yeah. Okay, no problem at all. Well, yes, it is ambitious target, no doubt. Yeah. We have seen very good years now, as mentioned before, why we have a smaller growth in 2026. Nevertheless, the base is the market. What I mentioned about the consumption of beverages in water, for example, the average is 4%. This is how the market grows. We are a market leader, we grow more than the market with our very good solutions in order focused on the cost of our customers. That's the reason why we see that we can grow faster than the market. If you see it combined with water, it's around about 4%, 4.5%. That's market growth. We should go above. To get this around EUR 7 billion, I think it's not easy, definitely.
We have to look what happens in the world tomorrow. What happens today in Switzerland or in the night, what happens tomorrow in other regions, we will see how the Middle East situation can be solved and so on. This is definitely also where we have to look, also in our market, where on the other side, the consumption of beverages is a non-cycle business. This is the way w ith the new production facilities, we can manage.
Thank you. That brings me to the last question, and this is one that we can talk about for a long time or a short time, and I'll prefer the latter. It basically says that you are trading at a multiple that even historically speaking, is not hi gh. It's less than 7x EBIT, the lowest since 2009. Could you give us two or three investor concerns that you hear why people are shying away from Krones? Once again, I know there is a potential long answer in the making, but if we could just keep it short, that would be much appreciated.
Sure. I think it's not easy at the end of the day, and I'm not sure if I have the only one right answer to it. On one hand, what I present to you is our very resilient business model on this very growing good market. On the other side, yes, Holger, one of your last questions, it's a very ambitious target we see in 2028, no doubt. If I see what mwb, Thomas Wissler, the analyst, have written, what he has calculated, the EUR 150 target price, also my other 12, 13 analysts are more or less similar. Why we have a calculation of EUR 150, whereas on the other side, we see EUR 115 at the moment.
I think on one hand, it's definitely a situation that a lot of investors looking to other companies, to other industries, semiconductors, everybody's investing. I don't know who is investing, everybody in the big U.S. IPO last week, and also in semiconductor companies and so on. Perhaps it's not so easy. On the other side, yes, we are in a lot of investors meetings, more or less, the questions are similar, but I think to have here right answer is very complex. I think there is a possibility also in the share price, but for me, most important that I bring you the story to Krones, and you have to decide yes or no in order to participate on our success growth full story.
Great. Thank you so much. I guess that's a good summary and, well, final words, it doesn't sound too well, final words to end this presentation. I thank everybody for participating through the day and of course, also in the presentation of Olaf Scholz featuring Krones. Thanks for the questions, all of you. Have a nice afternoon, maybe a cold beer or also water, which is good for you as well. We'll see you again at one of our next round tables, and until then, all the best. Thanks, Olaf. Thanks everybody.
Thanks to everybody. Thanks Holger and your team.
Thank you.