Earnings Call: Q4 2023

Mar 28, 2024

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and on behalf of Montega, a warm welcome to today's earnings call of the Knaus Tabbert AG, following the publication of the financial year figures of 2023. We are delighted to welcome the CEO, Wolfgang Speck, who will speak to us in a moment and guide us through the presentation and the results. After the presentation, we will move on to a Q&A session in which you will be allowed to place your questions directly to the management. We are looking forward to the results, and having said this, I hand over to you, Mr. Speck, for your presentation. Thank you very much, and I would like to warmly welcome you to our reporting on the occasion of today's publication of the figures for the 2023 financial year. Ladies and gentlemen, this morning we published the consolidated financial statements for the 2023 financial year, and this report and the figures reported in it are remarkable and groundbreaking in many respects for us as Knaus Tabbert, with its now more than 4,000 employees. But what is so remarkable? In 2023, we achieved the strongest growth in the company's history with sales of EUR 1.4 billion, representing a plus of 37%. We have reached a new high of profitability with an EBITDA margin of 8.6%. Another point is also noteworthy. Since the end of 2022, our strongest brands in these segments, namely Knaus, Weinsberg, and Morelo, have been at the top when it comes to new registrations and thus customer acceptance. Now in detail, the essential elements of this stage success. Ladies and gentlemen, the clearly better delivery situation for chassis enabled a significant change in the product mix towards higher priced motorhomes and campervans, which significantly supported revenue growth. As a consequence, 80.6% of the 2023 total revenue of EUR 1,441,000,000 in the 2023 financial years, previous year, 65.9% increase, come from motorized vehicles, motorhomes, and campervans. The revenue of caravans contributed only 17.7% to the total group revenue. Ladies and gentlemen, the easing in the supply chains and the positive cost development in relation to overall output, so-called economy of scale, especially in the personnel area, are also reflected in the development of the operating result, which developed disproportionately to sales. EBITDA, adjusted for special items, rose from EUR 70.1 million to EUR 123.8 million in the reporting period, an increase of 76.6%. The adjusted EBITDA margin increased significantly to 8.6% and compared to previous year, just to remember that, we saw 6.7%. Ladies and gentlemen, in the 2022 financial year, our consciously made strategic decision to continue to employ and train our employees despite low utilization was critically questioned several times. From a today's point of view, a decision that has made 2023 to another record year. If you had put short-term success ahead of long-term goals around 18 months ago, you might have to report on different key figures today. The consistently high utilization of production and the better product mix ultimately led us to a significantly better quality of results. In other words, we stayed true to our solid, healthy, and sustainable growth path, and we delivered. Ladies and gentlemen, the order backlog or order intake has been one of the key figures for the future planning of our growth path over the last three years, especially for the capital market. After all, during the years of the pandemic, it had a range of well over 12 months, and this meant very long waiting times for end customers and dealers. In order to sustainably solve the situation of long delivery times, we have invested heavily in expanding capacities over the last few years and have already largely completed this. The order backlog as of end of December 2023 is still around EUR 1 billion. As a result, the scope of the order backlog will level off at a level of 60%-70% of the planned annual revenue in the next few months, which is still above the situation before the pandemic. Ladies and gentlemen, both the premium and luxury segments contributed to the success in the 2023 financial years. Revenue in the premium segment in the 2023 financial year was 38.7% higher than the previous year, where we reported EUR 1,274.3 million. A total of 30,041 units sold can be assigned to the premium segment. At EUR 102 million, the segment's EBITDA was 89.5% higher than the previous year. In the luxury segment, represented by Morelo, Knaus Tabbert recorded revenue of 572 units. Revenue rose by EUR 36.1 million or 27.6% to EUR 166.8 million. EBITDA in the luxury segment was EUR 21.8 million, 40.4% higher than the previous year figure of EUR 15.5 million. I would like to add that there were no individual issue in the 2023 financial year that led to an adjustment in EBITDA. The reported EBITDA therefore also corresponds to the adjusted EBITDA. The increase in cash flow from operating activities is mainly due to the higher result compared to the previous year. The significant increase in inventories had a counteracting effect, which in turn is directly related to the increased inventory of unfinished and finished vehicles, as well as an increased stock of chassis as of the balance sheet date. At minus EUR 53.8 million, the cash flow from investing activities was EUR 18.9 million below the previous year's value. Last year, we reported EUR 72.7 million, and significant investments to increase capacities had already been largely completed in the 2022 financial year. In the year under review, expenses amounting to EUR 12.1 million related to the expansion of the second production line for Morelo brand at the site in Schlüsselfeld. Due to the increase in working capital, and this due to generally increased inventories, the balance sheet total increased to EUR 682.5 million. The equity ratio nevertheless increased slightly compared to the end of 2022 to 28.2%. Net debt increased to EUR 231.4 million, resulting in a net debt ratio of 1.9 compared to 2.6 at the end of the year 2023. This means that the net debt ratio as well is well below the value of 2.75, which is one of our standard bank-related KPIs. Ladies and gentlemen, RENT AND TRAVEL, the digital rental brand from Knaus Tabbert, has developed into one of the top three rental portals in Germany since it was founded in 2016 and has set itself the goal of winning new customers for the Knaus Tabbert Group's brands and sustainably promoting them for caravanning inspires. With over 3,000 partnered travel agencies across Germany, more than 2,450 motorhomes, camper vans, and caravans from the Knaus, Weinsberg, Tabbert, T@B brands in Germany, RENT AND TRAVEL is well on its way to becoming one of the leading caravanning rental platforms in Europe. With our digital rental brand, RENT AND TRAVEL, we can specially inspire younger customers to caravanning and achieve long-term brand loyalty among potential customers of tomorrow. According to a recent study in Germany alone, there are more than 14 million people who can imagine going on a camping, motorhome, or caravanning holiday. In the course of 2023, RENT AND TRAVEL will begin the internationalization process, globalizing that has been planned for some time. Since December 1st in 2023, vehicles can now be rented or booked through Italian rental partners for the first time. RENT AND TRAVEL started in a total of 17 Italian cities, meanwhile, and the next expansion step into other European countries is already planned for the 2024 financial year, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, and the Netherlands. The booking figures for the 2024 rental season show that caravanning as a form of holiday is becoming increasingly popular even after the COVID years. Never before in the history of RENT AND TRAVEL have advanced bookings for the coming rental seasons been so high and the rental fleets have been very well utilized so early. Growth rates of over 20% as of December clearly demonstrate this. Ladies and gentlemen, the form of caravanning has been on a steady growth path for well over 10 years. Neither rising energy prices, the significant upward movement in interest rates, nor the price increases could dampen the desire to travel in 2023. Last year, almost EUR 87 billion was spent on vacation, more than ever before. On average, this is around 7% of net household income, and last year, Germans spent around EUR 110 per person per day. That means around 10% more than the previous year. In terms of customer priorities, vacation travel comes in second place behind food. For most people, traveling is more important than spending money on new furniture, cars, or cell phones. What is also remarkable is that traveling is much more important to people than even investing in their own retirement provision. The market research institute, NIT, which stands for New Insights for Tourism, came to these results in its regularly conducted travel analysis, which had been published several months ago. In addition to the demographic change, the fact that more and more younger people, especially young families, are becoming enthusiastic about this type of travel is also contributing to the growth of the camping industry. Camping or caravanning has already become an important economic factor. A current study puts camping specific cross sales in Germany at EUR 14.1 billion per year, and about a third of this goes to camping equipment, which also includes appropriate vehicles. Ladies and gentlemen, we have taken strategic and operational measures in many areas in recent months to achieve our defined goal by 2027. That means EUR 2 billion in sales with an EBITDA margin of over 10%. Let's talk about the dividend policy. The dividend policy of the Knaus Tabbert Group is geared towards continuity. In this sense, it is also planned to propose an increase of the dividend to the annual general meeting in June 2024, in line with the very pleasing earnings development. If the annual general meeting approves the planned proposal, the dividend for the 2023 financial year would increase to EUR 2.90 per share. Remember, in the previous year, we paid EUR 1.50. Ladies and gentlemen, based on the current business development, the measures outlined above, and the internal planning of the Knaus Tabbert Group, the following forecast results for the key management indicators. For the 2024 financial year, we expect consolidated sales to develop compared to the 2023 financial year in a range of EUR 1.4 billion to EUR 1.55 billion. Knaus Tabbert is not planning any price increases compared to retailers for the remainder of the 2024 model year, which ends on July 31, 2024. The earning power expressed by the adjusted EBITDA and the adjusted EBITDA margin is expected to be in a range of 8%-9%, based on the expected sales development. Thank you very much. Now I am happy to receive your questions. Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentation. We will now move on to the Q&A session. For our dynamic conversation, we kindly ask you to ask your questions in person via audio line. To do so, click on the Raise Your Hand button. If you have dialed in by phone, please use the key combination star nine followed by star six. If you do not have the opportunity to speak freely, you can also place your questions in our chat box. The first question we receive from Martha Ford. Martha, your line should be open now. Hi. Morning. I just have a question on your guidance and on your midterm growth target. I think that the 2% revenue growth at the midpoint is potentially slightly lower than some people were expecting, even though I know you indicated a more sideways movement this year. My question is, has that affected how you see the midterm growth prospects now, or are you expecting a significant acceleration from 2025? If so, what is supporting that? Yeah. You remember when we addressed that midterm guidance two or three years ago, we already mentioned that the clear goal is to jump over the EUR 2 billion hurdle in sales. We also addressed clearly that we would like, and we will achieve the double-digit EBITDA margin. We also addressed that this results in an average growth rate of roughly 15%. What we showed now is that, looking backwards, that we delivered already in the year 2022, 27% of growth rate. In the last year, 37% of growth rate. Now, that's a clear statement from my side, we will use the year 2024 to clean up a little bit what happened during that really strong period of growth to be prepared and to be ready, starting in 2025 onwards, to achieve that EUR 2 billion sales hurdle. That is, again, coming back to your question, we still have that EUR 2 billion top-line growth in mind, and we will deliver. Great. Makes sense. Thank you. My second question is on the CFO function. Is the plan going forward for you to have control of the CFO functions, or is there a plan for a successor to succeed you? Well, when I started at Knaus Tabbert in the year 2013, as far as I remember, 10 years ago, I was the sole managing director of the group. A couple of years later, I was the CEO and CFO. What we do now is just a little bit to remember the architecture of success in the management team, let me say it that way, that it worked very good. The idea is, yes, we have no plan to substitute that position, so I'm going to run both functions, CEO and CFO, for the coming years, as I did when I started with Knaus Tabbert. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Martha. Thank you. Our next question comes from Ellis Acklin. Ellis, your line is open. Ellis, we cannot hear you yet. How is that? Oh, yeah. Okay. Now it's fine. Thanks, guys. Morning, Wolfgang. Morning, Ellis. Congratulations on the record year, and thanks for taking my questions. A couple things I would like to talk about. If you could maybe give some insight into what sort of revenue and earnings cadence you expect this year relative to your guidance. Let us start with that one. What do you mean with cadence, specifically? I mean, is it going to match the quarterly development from the past years, or do you expect any changes? Because you are talking about cleaning up things in 2024. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, I mean that the yearly patterns, they will stay the same, because it is something, first of all, we see when you look to registration developments on a yearly basis, you see that we have a certain shape of seasonality. This is every year the same, so also when we look to our patterns in production capacities, in output, in where we change model years and so on, this will definitely stay the same. We had, by the way, a nice start in the year 2024, just to mention that. So it will be what you can expect is a little bit the same, what you saw in quarterly patterns, what you saw during the last years. You have to take into consideration that Q1 is also a little bit dominated by the ramp-up phase after we stop production end of the year. The January always we see missing at least 10 working days in that quarter. Then when you look to Q2, you see all the holidays, specifically in Germany. In May, I would say every week there is one holiday in, with a famous, I don't know the English word, bridge days, as we say in Germany. Then when you look to Q3, we always close factories for 2 to 3 weeks. This will also stay the same. Then the final year, Q4, it also will stay on the same patterns. Okay. If that answers your question on cadence, as you mentioned, Ellis. Yes, that's very helpful. Thank you for that. Then just one further question regarding the recent announcement of going to a 4-day work week. Is that some type of reflection of the ongoing skilled worker shortage throughout the country? Maybe some color on that would be great. Yeah. Meanwhile, last year we ended up on the level of employees of 4,215 people. Looking backwards, what we did in 2023, 2022, it was always difficult to attract people, to hire people which are on a high level of education and experience. You know where the production sites are located. I'm today sitting Jandelsbrunn, looking to the Czech border and to the Austrian border. We are located in Hungary, where we have a high level of competition as employer, and also in the area where Morelo and Tabbert is located. It's difficult. We have, by the way, still in Germany, even the economy is weak, we have still really low unemployment rates, and that makes it difficult. The task is for us also to increase the attractiveness as employer in those regions, and we do a lot. We have a lot of initiatives started 2 years ago. One initiative is to be more attractive for female workers and potential employees from the outside world. There is a big program where we would like to attract those people, so the female part of the world. When it comes to discussions with people, it is always about, you know that famous expression, work-life balance, and you have to attract people also with a flexible working time pattern. That was the reason why we said, "Okay, we stay with the 35 hours a week," which is, by the way, also part of the agreements between the unions and the employers in Germany, the 35 hours. This is a regular working time. What we do now is not to divide it via 5 days. No, we divide it by 4 days, and this ends up with 8.75 hours per day. Also a point you have to take into consideration that we employ, meanwhile, I would say, 20, 30 different nations. When you look to our structure in Jandelsbrunn, I would say 200 to 300 people every morning drive from the Czech Republic to Jandelsbrunn. Some drive 1 and a half hours, some 2 hours one way. It makes a huge difference if you calculate that when they say, "Okay, we can work 35 hours on 4 days, and we drive just on 4 days this huge distance, or on 5 days." That is something where we believe that we can increase our attractiveness as employer in those regions. Okay, that sounds quite clever and makes a lot of sense. I appreciate it. All right. Well then, all the best for the rest of the year. Thank you very much, Ellis. The next question comes from a participant named Chaput. Please state your name. Your line is open now. Yeah. Do you hear me? Sorry. Yeah. Now we can hear. It is Christophe Chaput from ODDO BHF. Good morning to all, and thank you for the presentation. I just have two questions, please. The first one is, you are going to launch a new brand that will target lifestyle and probably younger clients. When do you expect the first contribution in term of sales, and what should we consider for 2024? Should we consider extra cost? I do not know, digital marketing, for example, or whatever, related to this new offering? That is the first question. Okay. Yeah, we announced, you remember that, Christophe, the new brand already, during the IPO phase. But then that is also what we communicated due to the lack of chassis deliveries. We said it makes no sense to launch a new brand without having sufficient chassis available in our factories. That was the reason why we postponed it then year by year. But now in 2024, we have a solid supply chain on chassis. That is the reason why we addressed early in this year on the CMT, the big opening fair in Stuttgart, that we will come to the market with a new brand in second half of 2024. Yes, this is a brand where we will attract new customers. I will not, how to say, ring-fence it just to a younger or it's a cheaper product. No, it's a product and a brand, products and a brand specifically, where we would like to fill all the white areas in our landscape of brands and products. You cannot expect that it's a brand which just positions on the lower end side of the price list. No, we will specifically fill in the white places in our product and brand landscape. It will be a brand, by the way, which will fully equipped by all product segments. So the new brand will deliver caravans, camper vans, and also motorhomes. What we do differently is that we will use a new strategy in distribution and sales policy, firstly. Secondly, we will include artificial intelligence, to follow the customer journey, to support the customer journey, to increase level of comfort when people, customers are doing configurations or would like to learn more on specific topics in our product. So this is something where we will start using AI in this new segment of the brand. To your question on extra costs, everything is included in the business plan for 2024. Due to the fact that we will start also with a new type of distribution model, we have to, first of all, to fill the logistic pipelines, we have to fill the point of sales at the dealer places and so on. We have headroom of a couple of hundred units to be produced and invoiced and delivered in the second half year of 2024. Okay. Thank you very much for that. On the guidance for 2024, obviously you help us on sales and then EBITDA margin. Could you help us as well on the free cash flow, or tell it differently, should we expect a normalization on the working capital and so a strong rebound for the free cash flow in 2024? Definitely a clear yes from my side. As I mentioned, what you cannot expect this year is, again, 20% or 30% increase in growth. No, definitely not. But what you can expect this year is that we clean up the balance sheet, that we reduce the level of working capital, that we will release a lot of cash captured in the segment of inventories, that we will increase KPIs like ROCE, return on capital employed. We are today at a level of above 20%, 22%, 23%, but we have a clear target to achieve 30%. And of course, when you look to the last year's cash flow generation and balance sheet, you see that based on nearly EUR 124 million in EBITDA, we have really a great operation result based on our operations. But that was eaten up by roughly EUR 60 million, EUR 70 million by increasing the level of working capital due to specific facts. But we see that we will, first of all, and that is one topic, end of the year, our factories, they saw roughly 5,000 chassis delivered by Mercedes, Fiat, Ford, MAN, Volkswagen, and we are meanwhile down to below 4,000. So it is already a minus of 1,000. We will work on that to optimize our logistic chains now based on five suppliers of chassis. This will be a main topic. We still are facing a situation where we produce still a lot of unfinished vehicles. We still have more than 60 people in the group just finishing unfinished goods. Unfinished goods because, just an example that we have difficulties in deliveries coming from China and big container ships, they are not able to cruise through the Suez Canal. And very often, last minute, we receive information that they have to ship around Africa, and that, at the end, causes three to four weeks longer delivery times. And that is the reason that we still are waiting for toilets and shower cabins and stuff like that. And also, this had caused a lot of problems and at the entire levels of inventory is. So again, 2024 is a year where we will optimize balance sheet, where we optimize free cash flow generation, and that is a topic, and we already saw during the first quarter that we are on a way to have a good progress on that. Okay. Thank you. The last one, if I may, regarding the EBITDA margin guidance for 2024, so 8%-9%. You are already at 8.6%, if I remember well. So in which scenario should you be at 8% in 2024? Why should we, in a pessimistic scenario, see a kind of decline? I am not sure to understand so. Everybody is aware that we have a lot of difficulties around the world. Nobody knows exactly what happens in Gaza, what happens in the Ukraine, what happens somewhere in the world. Also on topics like elections in the U.S. There are a lot of difficulties where we today cannot oversee. That is the reason why we said we don't like to come to the capital market and to explain by the election in the U.S. or by increase of level of dangers in the Gaza, for example, and then they close the Suez Canal. A lot of things can happen this year, and that is the reason why we say we would not like to use such types of explanations to explain to the capital market why we are now down to 8. That is the reason why we say, okay, let's plan with a buffer for everything what could happen this year. Again, it's not a situation where we are not sure about market demand, no. Also, already in January, February, we saw a nice development in registrations in Germany and in Europe. We saw Knaus Tabbert increasing again market share. So we have a high confidence in the market demand. We have a high confidence in new products, in the new brand. This is not the case why we said, "Okay, let's open it down to 8." It's just because of a situation in the world where it's really difficult to plan. Okay. That's very clear. Again, congratulations for the results. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much, Christophe. The next question comes from Markus Remmes. Your line is open. Hi, Markus. We can't hear you. Markus? Hi, good morning. Yeah, sorry, I was told by the automatic voice to restore my silencing. First question comes back to the cash flow, because that to me was actually a disappointment in the final quarter. So the cash conversion was not overly convincing, to put it that way. Can we talk about development in the first quarter, which is essentially not adjusted, and you have to fulfill a 30% or above 30% equity ratio according to your covenant? Can we assume that you will deliver on that covenant? First of all, reporting for Q1 2024 is scheduled on 8th of May, and then we will report on that topic. Too early to announce now specific numbers on that. As I mentioned when I talked to Christophe, I said, "Okay, we are working on those topics to reduce capital employed in the working capital segment." And we did already, we see a nice progress on that. Then we talk about the full year. Again, we are on a good track to optimize that. Because that is something, yes, you are right. We delivered a great result on increased top-line growth. We delivered a great result by doubling the EBITDA, level of EBITDA, nearly doubling last year. But we had not been able, due to external factors, to keep the level of inventories low. But we work on that. All right. Okay, looking forward to the Q1 reporting. I was just trying to get the sense of the pace of cash conversion over the years, where we should kind of think it's more of a forward loaded, because you have to deliver on the covenant, or whether it's more of a backwards due to release of working capital. That was actually the meat of my question. Again, we are working within the corridors of the credit facility agreement. That's a clear statement from my side. Again, this is a main topic for 2024, and I announced that, by the way, already last year, that this is the big goals are in the balance sheet and not so much in the for 2024. This, by the way, will also increase value of the company by reducing the level of debt, as we all know. Yeah. Would you have a target working capital to sales in mind that you are willing to share with us, some sort of range where you expect to come out at year-end? No, nothing I would like to share today. Well, especially Markus. Okay, cool. Yeah. What you can- That's fine. expect is that we are going to increase level of equity ratio. Of course, I mentioned the net debt ratio of 1.9. We see that we have headroom also to improve. When you are looking backwards, the company already showed net debt ratios below one. We also, several years, we show 0.9. Again, these are the targets we are working for. Right. The whole team. What can you share about the behavior of the chassis suppliers? Because in some instances, we are hearing, okay, they are confronted with the weakening demand, so they continue to ship whatever they have contractually agreed. Is there a leeway for you to steer the chassis situation? On that 4,000 number that you have mentioned, is that a year-end level where you ended with- No, I mentioned that- No. No, I mentioned that we ended up with more than 5,000 end of the year 2023, and I will add some words on that, the reasons why. We are now below 4,000, and it is a clear goal to say, "Okay, let us come down to 3,500 to 3,000." This is something we would like to see during the year. This, I would say, is a nice number to find the right balance between low level of inventories, but also to secure our factories. Because you always have to pay a price if you are on low levels of inventory and something happens in the outside world. We saw a lot of things, as you know. Remember that we have the chip crisis, ZF was not delivering steering system to Fiat was not able to deliver, and we had to stop assembly lines. We feel comfortable at a level based on our output and capacity utilization between 3,000 and 3,500 units. That is what we would like to achieve, and we are, again, on a nice way. Talking about the chassis suppliers, you know that we reduced dramatically the dependency on Fiat. Just to give you a figure, last year, we ended up with sales just based on motorized vehicles, so camper vans and motorhomes, of roughly EUR 1.2 billion. Based on the EUR 1.2 billion, just EUR 440 million of sales had been based on Fiat Ducato. So we are down to a third when you measure it on sales. In the past, we had been above 90%. This gives us more comfort, more flexibility, a wider spread of product range. So we are very comfortable with that. Nevertheless, why more than 5,000 end of the year? Because we still saw a lot of disturbances on the supply chain, specifically from Italy, and we have sometimes roughly 3,000 orders in place to this chassis suppliers. We saw last year that every week, nearby every 3,000 vehicles had been replanned to new delivery times, had shifted from one month to the other, even from one quarter to the other, and that caused a lot of problems last year. Meanwhile, Fiat opened a factory also in Poland. They increased their capacity, they are much more stable in delivery, and that also enables us to reduce now inventories in the year 2024. Okay, very clear. Final question, and then I am really through with the cash topic. Is there a CapEx guidance you can provide for 2024? I can mention that, but that is something I would say below 50, something between 45 and 50. This is something which we see for the year 2024. What we saw during the last years, the one thing is the planning of my colleague COO, the other thing is reality, where suppliers are not able to deliver machines and equipment. So sometimes we even shift some stuff to the next year. Again, to make a long story short, EUR 45 million to EUR 50 million, this is what you can expect this year. Including, by the way, of Morelo. Maybe I can add that. Yeah. Including a main portion. When it is on capacity increase, then the main portion is dedicated to Morelo to finalize the new plant where we will double capacity. In that plant, we ended up at 584 units last year, so nearby 600, and the idea is to increase up to 1,200. This plant will be ready this year, so a huge portion is dedicated to that. Then also, and this is something you also have to take in consideration, that we have to refill also pipeline at our dealers. You know that we have three dealer groups in our consolidated reports. This is also something. We have ESG topics we would like to work on to increase our level of sustainability in the company. But then that is a point, we are not investing in the premium segment a lot of money in increasing capacities. We have invested, we are on a high level of capacities technically-wise, and we can now breathe a little bit, with working our patterns to adjust it. All right. That was very clear. Thank you very much. You are welcome, Markus. Thank you. Thank you. The next question comes from Alessandro Coglietta. Your line is open. Yes. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, Alessandro. Okay. Hi, Markus. Alessandro, sorry. Yeah. I have a few questions. First, on the inventory levels at our distributors. Trigano said they were basically back to normal. Do you have the same view on the inventory levels at dealerships? I will start with this one, and I will ask my questions after. Yeah. I can confirm that we are back to normal, and normal means back on what we saw ahead of the COVID pandemic years. This is what you see if you count vehicles. This is, and that is very important also when you have a look on the financing lines and our dealers financing their stock levels. We saw during the pandemic historic lows at 30%, 35%. We saw before pandemic levels of 85%, 86%, 87% in usage of credit facilities at the dealer side. We are now back on roughly 80%. This also shows that we are back in normal years. Yeah. I can confirm that, what the colleagues of Trigano addressed to the market. Yes. Okay, thank you. The follow-up questions on that is, can you maybe help us or give us an idea on how much of your 2023 sales were generated by dealers restocking? They are ordering to restock their inventory back to these normal levels, or was there an effect, or would you say that selling and sell out were aligned? What can you comment on that? Let me answer it that way. When you talk about increasing level of inventories at the dealer, that is one aspect. Let me talk first of all a little bit on our success on registrations, and this is something where we see how many of the production increase we delivered last year was then directly sold by us to the end customer. This is represented, of course, by the registration charts delivered by the CIVD and ECF. Knaus Tabbert, last year in Europe, in the segment of motorized vehicles, we increased registrations from 8,900 to slightly above 13,000 units. We had a plus of registrations of 46.7%. That is what you see in the CIVD charts. At the same time, market stayed on the same level of last year's 146,000 units in the motorized segment, minus 0.1%. In a market segment where you see just a sideward movement, and most of all competitors lost dramatically registration and market shares, we had been able to increase our level of registrations compared to the previous year by 46.7%. This is something which also gives a little bit of flavor to the question, what's on restocking? Of course, yes, our dealers are restocked now, and that is a good situation because now we can deliver what customer needs are. Because during COVID, we had not been able to deliver. A lot of customers had been forced to drive home without fulfilling their dream of a new Knaus, Weinsberg, Morelo, or Tabbert product. Now dealers are able to deliver, and that is really important. But also, this is the view back to 2023, but also the published registration numbers now the first two months, or CIVD is delivering also registration numbers on season, so September until February. What we see there is also, in that period for the first two months, we had been able to increase registrations in the segment of motorhomes by 11.7%, and in the last 12 months, even by +50%. With other words, we see the market in a good shape for Knaus Tabbert, the whole market also for our competitors in a good shape. We believe that the low, what we saw last year, of 210,000 units of registrations in the market, this is the low where we believe from now onwards, we will see also increasing registration numbers in the coming years. Again, on restocking, and we are ready. We, the dealers, everybody is ready to use that positive momentum coming from the market. Also an indicator, by the way, when you look to the interests showed on the different fairs. The CMT in Stuttgart, we saw this year 265,000 people, which is on the level of what we saw in 2019, ahead of COVID. In Birmingham, we saw 109,000 visitors, which is an all-time high last year. Düsseldorf, we saw last year 260,000 visitors. Compared to 106 and 185 during the COVID year. I would say also use this as indicator, where you see that people are really interested in holidays, in caravanning, and in products of Knaus Tabbert. Okay, thank you. That was helpful. Just last question on your guidance. Yeah The upper edge of the guidance basically implies a 7% sales growth. We know that there's a stronger mix effect embedded in your backlog because of the shift to motorhomes. I was wondering if all that sales growth will come from that price and mix effect. That implies that we should expect flattish volumes or maybe slightly declining volumes this year. Can you help me understand the split between volumes and price and mix? Yeah. The mix between motorized vehicles and the caravans will stay more or less on the same level what we saw last year. We talk about roughly 30,000 units, more or less, overall. As you remember, we decreased last year dramatically the output on the caravans, towables. Also to move a little bit towards higher priced and higher margin product with a lot of success, as you see in our P&L from last year. This is also something which can you expect, but not in such big steps. We will stay focused on the motorized vehicles. Also when we come to the market with the new brand, I also would say this will also support, at least support, this split in mixtures. Yeah. Price increases, that was the second part of your question. I mentioned that also, it's, by the way, clearly addressed in our guidance that we do not increase prices in the year 2024. We'll stay flat for the model year, which ends up in June, July this year. Okay. Thank you. You are welcome. The next, and currently the last question I can see comes from Michel Koich. Michel, your line is open. Yes. Hello, do you hear me? Yes, Michel. Yes. Hello, Wolfgang. Actually, most of my questions were answered, and many thanks for your very detailed answers. That is very helpful. Maybe just one thing of detail, because the line was cut and I am not sure that I heard everything. When you were talking about this ambition, like the EUR 2 billion ambition midterm. Did you refer, because that is when the line was cut, I did not hear. Did you refer to the specific timeline in the horizon, or did you mention any kind of growth trajectory post 2024? Obviously, we are all aware that 2024 is a normalization year. After 37% growth last year, that is normal. From 2025 onwards, the kind of growth trajectory to get to those EUR 2 billion, and if there is any timeline on that specific. Yeah. A key answer to that, our midterm plan, as of today, shows that we plan to achieve that until 2027. When you look backwards, we always said that we planned on a CAGR in top line growth of roughly 15%. Due to the fact that we delivered within that 5 years period, 1 year with +27, last year with +37, we will use 2024 again to clean up, because it was, for everybody, it was a very awesome situation last year. Again, it's like the picture if we would climb the Mount Everest. We reached the base camp just slowly below the peak, and that is where we now sort who is still alive, let's say that way. What about the equipment? To get ready to make the next steps towards the peak, and the peak, very specific, is a 2 billion EUR sales hurdle, 2027. Then if we are in 2027 and we will have a look backward, then we will see in average the CAGR of 15%. Yeah. Okay. That's very clear. Thanks a lot, Wolfgang. You're welcome, Michel. Thank you. Thank you. In the meantime, we have received no further questions. No. We therefore come to an end of today's earnings call. Thanks to everyone for joining, and should further questions arise at a later time, please feel free to contact Manuel Taverne from the Investor Relations Department. A big thank you also to you, Mr. Speck, for your presentation and the time you took to answer all the questions. We wish you all lovely Easter days, and with this, I hand over again to you, Mr. Speck, for some final remarks. Yeah. Also from my side, I would like to thank everybody involved in that business following Knaus Tabbert, supporting us with challenging questions. Because every questions we receive, it's very often also a point where we have to reflect. Thank you for that, staying with us and for everybody, a nice Easter break. Thank you. Hope to see you soon. Thank you. Bye.