Thank you, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the presentation of our results for the Q3 of 2023. With me on the call today are our CEO, Carsten Spohr, and our CFO, Remco Steenbergen. They'll present you our record results, discuss the strategic highlights, and update you on our latest expectations for the rest of the year and beyond. Afterwards, you'll have the opportunity to ask your questions. As already mentioned, and, similar to prior quarters, I would like to ask you to limit your questions to two, so that everybody has a chance to participate in the Q&A session. Thank you, and over to Carsten.
Yeah, Dennis, thank you, and also warm welcome from my side, ladies and gentlemen. It's obvious that after such a good quarter, Remco and I are pleased to give you an update on both our figures and the underlying strategy. But let's also be honest, that before we turn to our nice numbers, I think it's valuable and just right to address a topic that I think has been on everybody's mind for some weeks, the war in the Middle East. And especially as an airline, where our purpose is to connect people, cultures, and economies, it's sad to see what happens if that kind of connection doesn't take place. And we are shocked, like everybody, by the events in Israel and in Gaza, which were obviously triggered by this devastating act of terror.
With our 15 special flights to Germany, Austria, and Switzerland from Tel Aviv, we were at least able to make a small contribution to bring home about 202, sorry, 2,000 citizens of our home countries. Nevertheless, our thoughts are with everyone who's affected, not just those 2,000 which we could bring back to safety. And I'm sure, also, like all of you, we hope for a timely end to this violence, not just in the interest of our industry. But obviously, let's return to the purpose of today's call, the second best quarter in our history, which we can present you today after we already presented you the best Q2 in our history last time. And this all despite the challenging geopolitical and macroeconomic elements in our environment.
Important for us as a group of airlines is that all our airlines consistently now achieve double-digit profit margins in the Q3, and that, for us, is proof that our strategic direction as a group, as the leading airline group in Europe, is successful and on track. We, as a group, achieved an adjusted EBIT of EUR 1.5 billion over the Q3, and only once, that was the Q3 in 2017, we once had a higher pro-operating result of more than 1.5. But keep in mind, there was a very special economic environment in our home market because of the insolvency of Air Berlin. The group revenues totaled EUR 10.3 billion this quarter, which ends up to be the highest revenue ever in a quarter and thus reflect an 8% increase compared to the previous year.
We welcomed 38 million guests on board in this quarter, which is a 14% increase from 2022, and while our yields increased 2% year-over-year, we're very proud that we were able to bring down our unit costs by about 1%. Our regularity improved back to 98%, with another percentage point to go for our target. From an economics perspective, we can look back on the best summer in our history, showing that we have set the right strategic course in the past, and more than 10 years ago, it was when we decided to complement our leading market position in corporate travel by significantly strengthening our private travel business, thus positioning our airlines in all relevant customer segments and markets.
And without that, which includes the further enhancement of our route networks with significantly more private travel destinations, or obviously the successful realignment of Eurowings, which took us some years, but it's finally happened, and the recent establishment and expansion of Discover Airlines with new destinations to popular markets around the world, I think it's fair to say that the group summer would not have been as successful as we are able to present it today. But obviously, strategy in aviation is nothing without the people behind it. Thus, I would like to thank the entire Lufthansa Group team for their relentless efforts. Despite the challenging environment, we were able to significantly improve our operational stability and quality compared to last summer. However, this last summer, we did not always reach, also this summer of 2023, we did not always reach the level of quality and punctuality we strive for.
For various reasons, we are not yet able to live up to our own premium standard end to end. Some things, unfortunately, are outside of our own control, and in areas, sorry, many areas, we are dependent on airports, on suppliers, or other service providers. But it's also up to us to continuously improve, and we are working tirelessly on this with a clear goal of coming back to fulfilling our customers' expectations and, of course, our own as well. Our customers rightly expect the travel experience with us to be a premium experience from start to finish... and their desire to travel premium remains unbroken, and the demand, demand in general, but especially for premium classes, continues to be high. Both private travelers continue to increasingly book first and business class flights, and also premium economy.
Overall, in this segment, we have not returned to the pre-COVID levels, but - sorry, in this segment, we have returned, different than corporate travel, and this is driven both by tourist trips and visits to friends and relatives. And again, this summer season extends and extends. October was as strong as a, correct, as the core summer months before. And as usual, performance now in November and the first half of December will depend more heavily on business travel, which, as you know, is not yet recovering as quickly or strongly as private travel, which to a certain degree, we all forecasted. Additional pressure comes from the challenging environment in the economic terms around us, or, for example, the cost-cutting efforts of many of our corporate customers.
On the domestic German routes, which by now only account for around 3% of our revenues, business travel is less than 50% in terms of passengers to pre-crisis levels. Of course, looking better in terms of revenue due to higher yields. However, recovery has progressed significantly on the economically more important long-haul routes, especially the transatlantic. In Asia, the recovery is still at the beginning. We forecast a further continued increase in demand for the rest of the year and beyond. In China and Japan, in particular, the recovery so far has largely been driven by travel within the region. Recently, we have also seen a significant revival, though, on core routes such as Tokyo, Shanghai, both inbound and outbound. Bookings for the Christmas season also make us extremely confident. Compared to the previous year, bookings for the Q4 are up by double-digit %.
We have already collected around 80% of bookings expected for the Q4. Therefore, we are optimistic that we will be able to increase load factors and that yields will be roughly at the same high level as in the same quarter of the previous year. The ever increasing demand continues to meet very limited supply. Our global industry association, IATA, predicts that industry-wide passenger numbers in 2024 will be around 5% above pre-crisis levels on the transatlantic and around 10% in Europe. China and the rest of Asia will be lower. For the coming year, we are currently planning with a capacity of around 95% compared to 2019. So demand will still be greater than our capacity in the coming year, enabling us to enforce good prices.
At the same time, we are catching up with our competitors that are more affected by bottlenecks in the overall traffic system. For the foreseeable future, industry-wide bottlenecks, for example, when it comes to delivery of new aircraft, production of seats and cabin interiors, and the supply of spare parts, will remain. In addition, capacity problems at airports, ground handling providers, and air traffic control, and the effects of unplanned engine overhauls challenge the whole industry, making overcapacities very unlikely for the next years to come. In many respects, we are better positioned than others to grow profitably in this environment. For 2024, we expect the delivery of around 30 aircraft, despite the ongoing difficulties. As a result, we will finally be able to offer our guests the promised product innovations and, at the same time, further increase our efficiency and productivity.
The Lufthansa Technik, the Lufthansa Group, benefits from direct access to the scarce and extremely in-demand MRO capacities, a real competitive advantage in times like this. Lufthansa Technik will not only accelerate the required maintenance of the group's Pratt & Whitney engines, but also support the manufacturer and its global customers in bridging this bottleneck. In our own fleet, 146 engines are affected, and we currently expect that on average, around 20 aircraft from the Airbus A320 family will have to remain on the ground daily in 2024 due to the necessary maintenance work. This corresponds to less than a third of the Lufthansa Group's Airbus A320neo fleet, and it's less than 5% of our overall Airbus A320 fleet, which consists of more than 420 aircraft.
It obviously helps that we decided to also use CFM LEAP engines on our A320 fleet and not put all eggs in one basket. Thanks to the countermeasures we are currently working on, such as the extended use of existing A320 family aircraft, wet lease agreements, and the procurement of additional spare engines, the additional maintenance effort will not impact our capacity outlook for 2024. Especially in times of labor shortages, I'm even more pleased that our attractiveness as an employer remains unbroken.... This also shows in the yearly measured satisfaction index of our employees within the Lufthansa Group, where we have just over the last days been reported record highs. Since the beginning of last year, we have additionally hired 22,000 employees, and a further 1,200 new colleagues are joining every month.
By the end of 2023, one in five people will be new to the Lufthansa family, showing that aviation continues to fascinate people. And this fascination defines our demands on our products and services. In summer of 2024, we expect our long-awaited first long-haul aircraft with the new Allegris cabin on board, where we'll be launching the new economy, the new premium economy, and the new business class. Our guests on short-haul and medium-haul flights will also benefit from a more comfortable cabin in the future, larger luggage compartments, USB ports, and holders for tablets and smartphones on every seat, and more legroom. Starting in the spring of 2025, we will gradually equip the first 40 A320s that are already in use for our airlines with this new cabin.
From May 26th, we plan to welcome our Lufthansa guests at the new Terminal 6 in New York, another example of improving customer-related qualities. The state-of-the-art terminal is the new home of our Lufthansa Group airlines flying to JFK. Part of it is a new lounge, which will have an area of 3,000 square meters, more than twice as large as our current Lufthansa Group lounge in Terminal 1. We are also making further progress in digital. Almost 500,000 people use our apps every day. It's more people than we have on our planes every day. Every two weeks, new features are added to further simplify and improve not just the digital travel experience. At the same time, we take our responsibility for the environment seriously, relying on technology instead of ideology. Modern aircraft are the most effective lever for more climate-friendly aviation.
Each new model uses up to 30% less kerosene and correspondingly saves CO2. By 2030, our airlines will take delivery of more than 200 new fuel-efficient aircraft, the most extensive fleet modernization in our history. We also continue to optimize our existing fleet. Sixteen aircraft of our fleet are already equipped with AeroSHARK, developed by Lufthansa Technik and BASF, a bionic film that optimizes the airflow and enables significant fuel savings. Currently, it already makes our aircraft 1% more efficient. Further developments could even save up to 3%. Technology as a silver bullet for climate protection also required, requires boosting of production of sustainable aviation fuels, SAF. According to the EU, we should fill up with 2% SAF by January 1, 2025, so 14 months from now. The average for all airlines worldwide currently is just 0.1%.
For the Lufthansa Group, already 0.2% of kerosene we consume are bio-based sustainable fuels, twice of the industry. The production, sorry, the proportion of fuels that are produced from green energy is currently zero, because such fuels are simply not yet available in the market. So it remains totally unclear how a 20-fold increase when it comes to adding SAF, in our case, it's only 10-fold increase, shall be achieved within just 14 months, let alone the carbon leakage effects, as only the hubs in the EU are affected. On the other hand, wherever possible, we do contribute to greater climate protection in aviation. However, we lack concepts from fuel manufacturers to turn the blending quotas into reality.
Demanding full commitment to more environmental protection from an industry like ours is the right thing to do, but to meet these demands, conditions must be right and the level playing field must be maintained. That's why we are working to advance the development of production processes and investing in SAF technologies of tomorrow. Just two weeks ago, we announced another collaboration together with the German Aerospace Center. Together with Airbus, Munich Airport, and MTU Aero Engines, we are researching the production of power-to-liquid aviation fuels. These are, among many other things, for me, this extremely high speed of change and innovation that makes our industry and our company so attractive. At an unprecedented speed, we're driving forward our transformation from an aviation to a global airline group.
We completed the sale of the remaining part of the LSG Group at the end of October, just two days ago. We expected the sale of AirPlus, or we expect the sale of AirPlus, our payment specialist, to be completed in the first half of next year. This allows us to concentrate even more on our core airline business. With our newly founded City Airlines, we will increase our short-haul network and enable growth without any limitations in scope. By taking on feeding and defeeding alongside Lufthansa CityLine, it will enable us to continue to grow profitably in our growing long-haul traffic from Frankfurt and Munich. City Airlines will start operations in the summer of 2024, and recruiting of operational staff will begin this month.
We are all in the ongoing consolidation process of our industry that is gaining momentum as we speak. We also want to play an active role. In this context, we are striving for hopefully timely approval from the EU Commission regarding our investment into ITA Airways. With all transactions, our overarching goal is to strengthen our core business and to become even more international, because in a global industry like aviation, we compete not only in our home markets, but internationally. Well, once again, I think it's fair to say we can look back on a very good quarter. Our flights are well booked, and our attractiveness as an employer remains high. We invest significantly in better products and services for our guests, and we continually implement innovative measures to ensure a sustainable future.
We are strengthening our core business and becoming more international, making us less dependent on our home markets and opening up attractive growth opportunities. Already today, we generate only 25% of our sales in Germany. In 2024, it was still 37%, and this will continue to be reduced further. Lufthansa Technik continues to benefit from the industry high maintenance requirements. Lufthansa Cargo's market environment continues to normalize, but yields remain 39% above pre-crisis levels. For the first time, all our airlines will end the year profitably. We have made good progress in terms of operational stability and reliability. This is the basis for meeting our quality standards in the future. When it comes to operational stability and quality, we are not yet where we want to be, but we are working on it every day.
Even though the geopolitical environment remains challenging, our booking outlooks make us feel positive for a good year this year and for good result this year and beyond. For right now, thank you for your attention. Let me now hand over to Remco, who will explain the financial figures in more detail, and then we jointly look forward to answer your questions afterwards. Thank you.
Thank you, Carsten, and welcome to everyone. Let me begin by providing an overview of our Q3 results, which exceeded the prior level on all metrics. We achieved an operating profit of EUR 1.5 billion, making it the second best Q3 result in the history of the Lufthansa Group. Net income amounted to EUR 1.2 billion. Similar to earlier in the year, net profit growth was supported by lower financial expenses and effective tax management. Note that group revenues and adjusted EBIT no longer include the results from the LSG group. The result of the catering business is reported as profit from discontinued operations right above net income. Despite seasonal working capital outflows and significant investments in our future fleet, I'm proud to report that our adjusted free cash flow was solidly positive, amounting to EUR 592 million.
I will provide further details on the contributing factors later in my presentation. Our passenger airlines delivered a remarkable performance in the Q3, with an adjusted EBIT reaching EUR 1.4 billion, nearly doubling compared to the previous year. This achievement can be attributed to the increased capacity we offered, the higher yields that we generated, and the cost reduction compared to the prior quarter. Consequently, the adjusted EBIT margin for the passenger airlines segment increased to 16%. In line with our forecast, yields were 25% higher than in 2019, and approximately 2% above the prior year's level. The strong yield environment continues to be driven by high premium demand, particularly from our leisure customers.
Yields in our short-haul business saw a rise compared to the previous year, but the increase was even greater in the long-haul segment, where yields surpassed 2019 levels by more than 30%. In addition to the future increase in yields, seat load factors remained above 86%. Consequently, RASK in the Q3 amounted to 9.8 cents, a 21% increase compared to 2019. I'm particularly pleased with our unit cost performance in this quarter, supported by better fixed cost leverage due to the increase in capacity and operational enhancement. Our unit cost performance improved in Q3, with a 0.9% reduction in CASK compared to the previous year. On a year-to-date basis, CASK was 2.4% higher than the 2022 level.
We expect a similar unit cost reduction as in the Q3, also in the Q4, in line with our full year guidance of a low single percentage increase in CASK compared to the previous year. Looking at the individual airline results, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, and Brussels Airlines all achieved the best quarterly result in their history in the Q3. The result of Lufthansa Airlines and Eurowings were only exceeded by the exceptional strong performance in the Q3 of 2017, following the sudden market demise of Air Berlin. Lufthansa Airlines continues to be impacted by the operational bottlenecks in the large German hubs, necessary investment and improvement of the product and our customer experience, and the slow recovery of traffic to Asia.
Turning to our other segments, our airfreight business around Lufthansa Cargo generated a break-even result in a difficult market environment and a seasonal small quarter for airfreight. While demand remained low, also in the Q3, we are confident that the market is currently bottoming out. Yields in our cargo business have stabilized at around 40% above the 2019 level, and even increased again in the recent weeks. We expect this to continue. Volumes are gradually ticking up as well, so we forecast tonnage to grow year-on-year in the Q4. Lufthansa Cargo is expected to generate a solid profit in the mid double-digit EUR millions in the Q4. Based on this outlook for the last three months of the year, the business would achieve an adjusted EBIT margin of 8% in the full year of 2023.
In our view, a respectable result in a difficult market environment. We're equally pleased with the performance of our MRO business, which generated a Q3 adjusted EBIT of EUR 168 million. Lufthansa Technik is benefiting from unabated demand for maintenance services, as airlines worldwide are expanding their capacities. The delays in the delivery of new aircraft force many airlines to fly older aircraft for longer MRO capacities and allowing Lufthansa Technik to pass through higher costs to customers. The year-on-year profit decline in the Q3 was solely related to some one-off effects in the comparison base, primarily related to the significant appreciation of the U.S. dollar in the prior year.
In the segment containing our other businesses, which include AirPlus, Lufthansa Flight Training, and Lufthansa Systems, as well as the cost of the group's overhead function, the operating results improved to a negative EUR 65 million in the Q3, mainly due to better performance at AirPlus. Adjusted free cash flow in the first nine months of this year amounted to EUR 1.7 billion. The operating cash flow of EUR 4.3 billion was mainly driven by the strong operating result, good working capital management, and an increase in customer prepayments. The business recovery at AirPlus resulted in an increase of receivables of around EUR 345 million, due to the steep increase in transactions, particularly at the beginning of the year.
Net CapEx amounted to around EUR 2.4 billion, mainly related to prepayment on aircraft orders and delivery of 16 aircraft in the first nine months. Our financial position continued to improve also in the Q3. The generation of free cash flow allowed us to repay maturing liabilities, primarily with cash. Nonetheless, available liquidity increased to EUR 11.1 billion at the end of September. Net financial debt decreased to EUR 5.4 billion, which is nearly EUR 800 million lower than at the end of the prior year quarter, and EUR 1.5 billion below the year-end level of 2022. Additionally, our net pension liability decreased to EUR 1.9 billion.
In this context, we are making good progress in implementing some changes to the allocation of pension assets, with the aim to align the interest rate sensitivity of plan assets more closely to the sensitivity of the liability side. We expect this to significantly reduce the sensitivity of the pension deficit to changes in the interest rate environment. Around two-thirds of the intended changes have been implemented, with the rest to follow in 2024. Our success in deleveraging means that the financial leverage has declined to 1.4, compared to 2.8 at the end of 2019, when we were rated investment grade by S&P and Moody's. From our point of view, it's therefore only logical that Fitch, who initiated coverage on Lufthansa Group yesterday, rated this investment grade with a rating of BBB-.
Before discussing our financial outlook, let me update you on the recent increase in the oil and jet crack prices. As a result, our fuel cost outlook for the full year of 2023 rose around EUR 500 million higher than at the time of our last update in August. For the remaining months of 2023, we have hedged 86% of our crude oil exposure at a break-even rate of around $90 per barrel. We have also hedged around half of our exposure to the jet crack at an average strike price of $25 per barrel, below the current spot price in US dollars. Looking ahead to 2024, we have already hedged 74% of our planned fuel consumption with a combination of options on oil and jet fuel.
Considering both the hedged and unhedged portion of the fuel consumption, our mixed jet fuel rate for 2024 amounts to $951 per metric ton at current spot and forward prices. On this basis, we expect fuel unit costs to remain stable year-on-year in 2024. Despite the increase in fuel costs compared to just a few months ago, we confirm our fuel, full-year profit outlook. We expect adjusted EBIT to reach at least EUR 2.6 billion in 2023, implying a solidly positive result also in the Q4, where we expect capacity to amount to 91% of the 2019 level. This would result in a full-year capacity of around 85% in 2023.
We also expect a significant positive adjusted free cash flow, moving as close as possible to our target of a recurring free cash flow of EUR 2 billion per year. In this context, we confirm our guidance for net CapEx of EUR 2.5-3 billion for the full year of 2023. Higher gross investments will be partly offset by inflows from sale and leaseback transactions, which we expect to conclude in the Q4. Let me also share our current thoughts on 2024 with you, despite the fact that current bookings offer only limited visibility at this point in time, especially considering the volatile geopolitical and macroeconomic environment, and that we are still in the midst of our budgeting for next year.
Our goal is clear: we aim at further improving operating profit and margin next year to achieve the midterm targets we set for 2024 in the early summer of 2021. An adjusted EBIT margin of at least 8% and an adjusted ROCE of at least 10%. While, and I'm very happy about it, we'll most likely generate a capital return of more than 10% already in 2023, we still have to close a gap to reach our margin target of 8% in 2024. Let me go through a few key assumptions to make this happen. First and foremost, we do not anticipate any material deterioration in demand. Coupled with ongoing supply constraints, which limit industry-wide growth and disciplined pricing across the industry, we do not expect any substantial deterioration in unit revenues going forward.
As outlined by Carsten, we also trust in our ability to grow capacity by a low double-digit percentage rate to around 95% next year, considering our schedule of new aircraft deliveries, privileged access to MRO capacity, and our success in recruiting. However, such growth will only be possible if the European aviation system stabilizes further. To ensure that this is the case, we are in intense dialogues with our system partners, predominantly air traffic control and our partners in Germany. In parallel, we have kicked off a group-wide efficiency program with the aim to reduce the current around 10% productivity gap to pre-crisis levels as far as possible next year. The program will be based on internal and external benchmarking, with full responsibility and entrepreneurial freedom given to the individual business to ensure accountability and the flexibility to set priorities based on business-specific challenges.
We expect better fixed cost leverage and increased efficiency to more than offset cost inflation, so that unit costs will decline in 2024. Coupled with the benefits from profitable growth, ongoing positive momentum at Lufthansa Technik, and the gradual improvement in market trends in cargo, we look ahead to the next year with confidence. Thank you for your attention. Carsten and I look forward to answering your questions now.
Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star followed by one on their touchtone telephone. In the interest of time, please limit yourself to two questions only. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star followed by two. If you're using speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selection. Anyone who has a question may press star followed by one at this time. One moment for the first question, please. And the first question comes from Jamie Rowbotham from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Morning, gentlemen. Thanks for the presentation. Two questions from me. The first, maybe for Remco, is on the free cash flow. As you highlighted, another strong quarter, so you've done nearly EUR 1.7 billion cumulatively, cumulatively on the Lufthansa definition in the first nine months, and I note the consensus for the full year is only around EUR 1.8 billion. I'd have thought that even with some further seasonal working cap outflows, the scope for a fairly decent further deleveraging of the group in Q4, would that be fair, do you think? And then second, perhaps more for Carsten, is just with regard to the approach that European Commission is taking on airline M&A. In particular, it feels like progress on the ITA's situation is taking longer than you would like. Perhaps you could provide some updated thoughts on that. Thanks.
Jamie, good morning. Remco here. Thank you for your question on the Free Cash Flow. Yeah, as I said also in the speech, and I have said during the last year, we're targeting to come close to EUR 2 billion. This would, this would mean that we try to get to EUR 1.7 billion, a little bit higher year-to-date for the full year. We have to keep in mind that in Q4, correct, we have the sale and leaseback transactions coming in, which bring our net CapEx a bit lower than the prior quarters. But of course, that sale and leaseback comes back in the net debt level, correct?
So although now we expect the free cash flow to be a bit higher, but on net debt level, to actually increase slightly, to around EUR 6 billion, and I'm talking about financial net debt. That's the current outlook, and I think it would be - I would be very happy if we achieve that.
... Yeah, Jamie, it's Carsten. As you know, when it comes to M&A and like ITA, we rather prefer to present the deal when it's done and not talk too much about it. But as you are probably also aware, we are in a very close and daily constructive dialogue with the European Commission to prepare the formal notification. 'Cause this is how it's done, that in this pre-notification phase, you try to basically overcome potential resistance and questions and so on. And quality, I think, and diligence in such a transaction, which is a lifelong relationship we are about to enter, is more important than speed or haste. You know our view, ITA is only, I think, number three in terms of market share in Italy, or actually number four, depending how you count it, with the low-cost carriers being the top leading carriers.
One low-cost carrier alone has 40% market share in Italy, which is resulting in, I think, the highest price increases the European industry has seen anywhere in 2023. So I think it's obvious that this transaction will increase competition in that important Italian market, and therefore, we are, you know, looking at this in a constructive way to eventually hand in the notification to then start to integrate ITA into our network and giving them the future they deserve.
Many thanks.
The next question comes from James Hollins from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. In a show of great minds thinking alike, my questions are similar to Jamie's. Just on the ITA deal, I read this morning, we shouldn't always believe the media, that the European Commission may be asking you to give up some flights at Frankfurt and Munich in order to get the deal done. I was wondering, Carsten, if you'd maybe use this platform as to discuss maybe where the red line would be on any potential remedies on actually doing that deal and, and whether that deal is you're 100% committed, if the European Commission, which, as it's stated, is going to get a bit more active on effectively trying to block deals? That was one question.
The second one, just on cash, maybe Remco could guide on CapEx, gross and net, or however you're thinking about CapEx for 2024 and those 30 deliveries, and how you're seeing the mix of owned versus potential lease. Thanks a lot.
Yeah, Carsten. I hope you are understanding that I won't speculate or comment on individual remedies. We'll report on those when we have approval of the transaction. But maybe let me add one thing for somebody who has been dealing with this now for more than 10 years. I think with the geopolitical situation, Europe more and more is turning its attention towards being globally competitive. Yeah, in other industries, when it comes to energy, when it comes to defense, when it comes to monetary policy, I think Europe and the EU Commission have understood that we need to look after European interests on a global scale.
That's good news for our industry, because to be globally competitive, the European airline groups, not just us, but also at least our two big competitors, need to grow to stay on eye level with other global players. The three Americans are already number one, two, and three in our industry. I think what's currently happening around the world, resulting in a new way of the EU Commission looking into European competitiveness, will also help to make that logical next step, which is an integration of ITA into Lufthansa, I think.
Hey, James, good morning. On the net CapEx for 2024, we expect about 30 deliveries of new planes next year. And in terms of the net CapEx to end up similar as this year. So also around EUR 2.5-3 billion of net CapEx, and then also including sales and leasebacks transactions in the range of EUR 0.5-1 billion. That is where we currently stand. So very consistent, very similar to what we have this year.
Very clear. Thanks a lot.
The next question comes from Tobias Fromme, from Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Good morning, Carsten. Good morning, Remco. This is Tobias from Bernstein. Two from me as well, please. Regarding your new City Airlines, how different do you expect City Airlines' labor costs to be from the existing Lufthansa Airlines business? And, if that's material, what is driving the difference? I was also wondering if you've received any response from the labor unions following the launch. And then secondly, regarding the corporate travel, can we say it's done recovering? We understand that corporate travel was substantially lower in summer 2023 than in 2019. Obviously, seasonality plays into that. But how are we looking into the rest of the year? Perhaps you have already visibility on September and October. And what do you expect the recovery to be over winter into Q1 2024? Thank you.
Yeah, Fromme, Carsten Spohr. On City Airlines, maybe it's important to understand that the Vergütungstarifvertrag, so the basic collective labor agreement on salaries, will be a copy and paste from Lufthansa CityLine. So the main difference is that we don't have a scope clause which will limit them to fly only aircraft below 95 seats, which unfortunately is what will be happening to CityLine as it currently operates. Therefore, we needed to move to make sure we have competitive feed into our long-range network in Frankfurt and Munich. The labor cost difference for CityLine or City Airlines was the main line, depending how you look at this, is between EUR 1-2 million per 320 per year, to give you an idea what the difference is in the balance staged.
Overall, also may be interesting for those of you who look at the German market, I understand from your name, you're probably German. City Airlines will have the second highest paying scheme, Vergütungstarifvertrag, in Germany after the main line, ahead of Eurowings and ahead of Discover and ahead of competitors. The union talks have started when the German pilot union decided to have no scope clause added on in the last labor negotiation, which you remember I commented on last year, last time. It's obviously has understood that the City Airlines will be part of the solution, and it's part of our, basically, answer to compensate some of the cost increases which are residing on the last CLA agreement we have done for the main line, airline.
We look forward to constructive talks here because we said very early on, we don't want this airline, which carries the Lufthansa brand, to be without a CLA. So if necessary, we start without a CLA, but we would prefer to finish agreements with the unions, not just pilots, also cabin, also ground, before we even operate next year.
Yeah, on the question of the corporate travel, right? The corporate travel, we ended Q3 with around 60% of 2019, and we have to keep in mind that the main reason why it's so low is particularly the travel within Germany. So the domestic travel in Germany, which is not our most profitable part, either. On the international side, the percentage is a bit higher. We expect that towards the winter to grow to 65 and towards next year or the end of next year, around 70%. This is just a logical consequence, correct, of the flying, particularly domestic and travel within Europe. On the other hand, corporate travel, and particularly the pricing, is very different.
So if you would look from a pricing perspective, we're very happy of the development. We're also very happy of the leisure demand, which much, much exceeds the 2019 level. So overall, in line with our expectations.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Jarrod Castle from UBS. Please go ahead.
Great. Good morning, everyone. Just coming back to the disposal of the Technik stake. I mean, the wording is, I don't know how to put it, but, you know, the wording is kind of, like, less clear. You know, you kind of say this, there's a decision on the potential divestiture of the minority stake. You kind of say in the release, the review of the sale of minority stake is expected to be completed by the end of the year. I just wanted to get some color in terms of where negotiations are, and to be honest, if, you know, we might see by the end of the year, you walking away from a disposal of the minority stake, if that's still an option.
And then secondly, just coming back to the balance sheet, you know, you've given very clear guidance again, so thanks for that, but how do you see the optimal capital structure kind of over the medium term? You know, obviously you want to be investment grade, but you know, where would the optimal capital structure be, and what would the plans be for any excess capital, you know, that based on that? Thank you.
Yeah, good morning, Jarrod. First on Technik, nothing changed versus the beginning of the year, Q1, Q2, and where we currently stand. It's just also a bit our approach. We communicate on something like this when there is something to communicate. We're still in the process. Of course, we have progressed quite a bit along the way. We target still a decision by year-end, which we have communicated also early in the year, and it's still unchanged at this point in time. Yeah, I hope we can communicate soon. But again, as Carsten said, with M&A, quality goes over speed. That also goes for this transaction, and that remains on the top. But from the wording, please don't read anything different than we have communicated earlier in the year.
With regards to the balance sheet, clearly the leverage situation we're currently in is much better than 2019. Therefore, I'm very happy as well that Fitch put us on investment grade yesterday. I can't wait until also some of the other rating agencies have also made up their mind. I am quite impatient in this regard. The balance sheet is very strong. Over the coming years as well, we will continue also doing investments in our fleet, our free cash flow, free cash flow target of around EUR 2 billion will also remain in place, and with that, we will also strengthen our balance sheet. It also gives the opportunities to do M&A if that's needed, without any weakening of our balance sheet.
With surplus cash, we can pay down our gross debt, and we have a very efficient capital structure with that in place.
Thanks very much. Cheers.
The next question comes from Muneeba Kayani from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
... Good morning, and thanks for taking my question. I actually wanted to follow up firstly on the rationale for the Lufthansa Technik sale. I know you've talked about it before, but your comments today on the MRO market in terms of, like, the demand there and the constraints in the market. With all of that, why would you... And the balance sheet where it is, why would you still be looking at a minority stake, so a stake sale? If you could kind of revisit that. And then secondly, in terms of your guidance on EBIT margin for next year, how are you thinking about that across segments? Is it a similar over 8% for all segments? If you could kind of just help us understand the moving parts there. Thank you.
Now, thank you for the question on, on Technik, right? The terms of the rationale has not changed. Also, what we said in the beginning of the year, right? It's particularly from strategic reasons, and then we talk really about the mid to long term, right? Technik is a formidable company, and of course, with the current constraints, on the short term, right, it is only strengthening. But on the longer term, we believe the Technik can play a much, much bigger role, in, not only in Europe, but probably also outside Europe, and, and new segments to play in. And we are really looking for a partner who can help to give this significant boost, on top of what we can bring only ourself to the table.
So a really big part of the whole underlying discussion is what the other party can bring on top of we can do ourself, but not for the coming 2 years, really, when we're looking 5-10 years out. That's important. That hasn't changed. Of course, going into the transaction with a minority sale, also, governance is very important. The price which is paid for the initial, and that all comes together, then as we said before, we will make a decision at the scope if it's all enough to move forward or not. I'm very positive. I think it's a very big opportunity, for Technik to take a next step, for the years to come.
On the EBIT margin, as Carsten said before, we expect all airlines to be positive this year, and we also expect all airlines to further improve next year. We also expect Technik to further improve next year. We said for Cargo as well, that there's a bottoming out in Q3, and also for cargo, we expect with that an improvement next year, or at least to stay in the amount in a similar place as we're ending this year. All in all, a position we are happy about, but we should not forget, we live in a very volatile environment currently, geopolitically, macroeconomically, supply chain situations, airport situations. We do everything we can to overcome, but also certain parts which are not in our control.
But we have at this point in time, we're looking forward to go after the 8%.
Thank you.
The next question comes from Stephen Furlong. Please go ahead.
Hi, it's good morning, Stephen Furlong from Davy. Congratulations on the excellent results, by the way. Hopefully, the market starts giving you credit for the execution. So two questions while I say that. And just go back to the 8% next year, or at least 8%, I am assuming your kind of generic assumption on unit revenue for the passenger business is somewhere kind of stable or stabilization from the increases we have over the last couple of years. And assuming your assumption is obviously it's very volatile geopolitically, but the supply constraints in the market help that, just talk about that. And obviously it's uncertain. And then maybe just talk about with the balance sheet, where it is, and investment grade now from Fitch.
Presumably, dividends are now on the horizon again as we look into the next couple of years. Thank you.
Stephen, Carsten . No, I think your question is a good summary of how we look into the next year. Not much to add for me. You know, there's existing supply chain constraints, which I think refer to every quarterly. Look at air traffic control in the Northeast U.S., look at pilots in the U.S., look at aircraft around the world. Now, add to that, the Pratt & Whitney issue. I understand one third, I think, of the fleet will be on the ground. For Lufthansa, there will be 20 aircraft alone. While we can compensate that, I'm sure some competitors cannot, and long term also, there will be an impact on this beyond 2024. So again, I think your, your question kind of summarized our view into 2024.
Thanks, Carsten.
Yeah. Stephen, let me, Remco here. Let me add to this. Correct. To fully concur as well, I think we also should keep in mind that for the coming years, correct, from an and that's for industry-wide, correct, and probably also for other industries the case. While the, perhaps, the macroeconomic inflation is coming slightly down, correct, sustainability, sustainability costs coming into the system will still drive costs up for everyone. So also for unit costs to remain flat, also for the coming years to increase, is needed for this, for this whole industry to remain profitable. Of course, we will look carefully at our CASK. That's what we target for next year, a slight decrease in CASK. And if you were to consider that as well, over then five years after 2019, correct? We-...
Then we will be still around 12%-13% higher cost, which were this year, while flying on a much lower ASK level, correct? And the CASK increase, you could see, is only already covered by inflation. So I think we do a very good job in there, and that's why also considering flying at 88% this quarter, we have such a good result. Who could ever think like that, that on these ASK levels, we can make such a profit level? So we have done something clearly right on the cost side. With that, we have always said that we would put forward to the supervisory boards an approval for a dividend distribution in case our results will come in line with expectation.
That looks like that, so, that we will put forward for approval in the beginning of next year. Our dividend policy, it has been between 20% and 40% of recurring net income. We haven't looked at it, what would be the right level, but, this is where we currently stand.
Okay, very clear. Thanks, Remco. Thank you, Carsten.
The next question comes from Harry Gowers from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good morning, gents. Three questions, if I can. First one, just on going back on the ex-fuel unit cost, obviously a pretty good performance in Q3. Remco, I think you mentioned it just now in terms of your thinking on ex-fuel CASK for 2024, but what quantum could you see the unit costs coming down by? Are we looking at low single-digit % year-on-year? And then, secondly, if I could dare to ask or look ahead this far, but could you give any commentary on how pricing or demand is looking on bookings so far in January or Q1 2024? Thanks a lot.
Harry, first of all, on the CASK, indeed, we're looking for a low single digit decrease in CASK in 2024. You have to see that also in the context of growing the ASK with 12% and inflation in the mid-single digit. And then particularly the discussions, because we're currently in the middle of our budget discussions, is really the efficiency. And efficiency, we want really to strike the right balance on in making sure the system is reliable. We can improve our punctuality, particularly in Germany, for our customers, while at the same time driving efficiency. And of course, as you understand, that is a careful balance we need to walk, and we're moving through that.
And it will be, of course, very much dependent on the discussion we have with our partners, correct, at the airports, air traffic control improvements, et cetera. What we see in pricing and demand towards next year, it's relatively low, yet at 20%, so it's a bit too early. But what we currently see is still a flattish yield performance. The bookings are in line with our expectations, also in line with the growth when we compare it to earlier levels. So in all, in that sense, all the signs as we see them now are still good.
All clear. Thanks a lot.
The next question comes from Sathish Sivakumar from Citi. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks again. I've got two questions. So firstly, on the corporate traffic, you mentioned that intercontinental is around 62%. Given that we have seen North America traffic has broadly come back to 2019 levels, what are you seeing in terms of corporate traffic out of North America? And then the recovery into next year, is it mainly a function of ramp up in capacity out of Asia, i.e., China? And then the second one is just more around the booking curve. How does the booking curve evolve since the onset of, say, uncertainty around Middle East, and how does that actually compare with, let's say, last year when the Ukraine conflict started? Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, Sathish, the corporate travel on the North Atlantic is definitely on the brighter side of the corporate travel development. We're actually seeing close to 70% already in terms of DAX passengers, and that's not only higher than average, but if you add to that, the yield increases, you get quite close to what we have seen before. If you look at our latest network extensions to America, we're going to Raleigh-Durham, we're going to Minnesota. That's not necessarily close to the beaches. So you see that even our network development reflects that strength of corporate travel on the North Atlantic. Sorry, the second question was on your booking curve, how that compared to last year. So in co-
Since the conflict and Middle East uncertainty, have you seen impact on the booking curve? And obviously, last year when the Ukraine conflict happened, what we have seen is the booking curve was softened for 2-3 weeks before it started to pick up again. So I'm just trying to see how things are evolving this year.
Sathish, Remco, Remco here. Of course, when the Middle East crisis broke out, we saw in the days following, we saw a little bit of a dip, and in the meanwhile, this has recovered a bit. But we see travel, correct, to other destinations, holiday destinations and beach destinations increasing more, and it's perhaps a little bit less than the Middle East. We also have to keep in mind that around the Middle East is a relatively small part of the overall portfolio. But overall, we are not worried. In terms of the booking, the booking curve, that is the same as I said before. The booking curve as we currently see is in line with also in, in prior years. It's still small for Q1, but it's in line what we have always have.
Yeah. Thank you.
... The next question comes from Ruxandra Haradau-Doser from HSBC. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning. Two questions, please. First, you see at United Airlines capacities over the Atlantic are strongly above 2019 level versus your capacity is still below 2019 level. So do you see potential to close the capacity gap to United Airlines over the next 1-2 years? And since capacity trends at United Airlines have been stronger than at Lufthansa for 3 years now, does this have cash rebalancing implications between you and United Airlines in 2024? And second, at Frankfurt Airport, the airlines currently operating from Terminal 2 will move to Terminal 3 over the next years. So what are your plans with respect to terminal space in Frankfurt, and do you see potential to improve customer satisfaction levels by expanding into Terminal 2 or by your partners moving to Terminal 2? Thank you very much.
Yeah, Sandra, Carsten , on the transatlantic, as you rightly point out, United was leading the way this summer and also last summer. This will turn around next summer. United announced that they won't grow on the transatlantic in 2024. We will see significant growth on the transatlantic in 2024. We'll basically close the gap, which was always the idea, that we, you know, as a joint venture partner, look at the joint market position and market development, and that's what you see happening also after this pandemic. The formula we have between United and us, without going into detail, is a formula that goes through the cycle. You don't look at this every quarter, every year, so you can count on having that balancing effect also being reflected in the way we deal with this commercially.
Frankfurt Airport, yeah, you're right in mentioning that T3 will be the home of our competitors. T2 will be opened up for renovation, which will then also allow us to have the renovation done in T1. So the clear answer to your question is yes, this will bring improvement to customer satisfaction after the move of things. And somebody has its microphone on, I think. We have some background noise from some office. Thank you.
The next question comes from the line of Neil Glynn from AIR Control Tower. Please go ahead.
Good morning, everybody. If I could also ask two questions, please. The first one on the efficiency program that you've mentioned this morning, in the context of the inflationary pressure. Could you give us a feel for how much of that is already in train today versus how much is still to get started? And, if relevant, any thoughts on the lead time between decisions and ultimate execution on those efficiency initiatives? And then the second question, joining the chorus on M&A. Obviously, there's been some questions on ITA, but shifting focus to TAP, I appreciate that may be distant, but it might be five months between now and your next group conference call like this. So I wanted to just understand your thinking.
In an unprecedented scenario where you might actually have two acquisitions on the go at one time, how do you think about governance challenges, risk to your own business of actually taking on those two simultaneously, should that come to pass? Thank you.
Yeah, thank you, Neil. First, on the question on the efficiency. The efficiency is not something which is a start or stop or start or stop. Also, this year, of course, we look in the efficiency improvements. Some airlines are a little bit further than others, depending as well on how stable the airport and the system is. For 2024, particularly what is current already starting up is for the main airline, very important to further increase. That also has to see the relationship of new airplanes coming in, people need to be trained, and particularly the bringing the punctuality up. So this is not something about start or stop. In many places, things have already started. Some started on a smaller scale, and will be ramped up.
Some will be also done later in 2024 and only coming in effect in 2025, because 2024 is not yet ready on this. This is a careful discussion which currently happens during the budget process, which is also then an agreement which we have to do with the airports, and that will still be continuing over the coming months and the course of next year. It's very important we do the right thing of the customers first, and we put the efficiency on top of many uncertainties there, but we will do our max here.
Yeah, Neil, on TAP, as you know, it's too early to comment that the process hasn't even started, and as all of the major European players, Lufthansa has expressed an interest to look into this due to its interesting traffic flows between especially Brazil and Southern Europe. So I don't see that timing overlap, but maybe a more general answer to your question, if you look at the Lufthansa organization over the last years, it has evolved into a so-called matrix, where we have been able to plug in and play with other airlines, beyond the 5 hubs we already operate and the 13 airlines in total we operate.
So I don't look at that with that much, let's say, nervousness, as I probably would have five years ago, because we have come a long way in optimizing our org structure to play that business model via five hubs, and we can also play it over six or over seven, if we have the opportunity to do that.
Great. Thank you.
The next question comes from the line of Conor Dwyer from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
... Hi, thank you very much. Yes, 2 from me, please, as well. So the first one is back to corporate travel. So at your FY 2022 results, you gave a graph that implied corporate volumes would be recovering to above 80% in 2024. I think that was important to some extent, at least for the EBITDA margin target into next year. But I think now you're expecting it to be in the 70s range. And I'm just wondering how that doesn't impact your margin target at all. Is that just because it's lagging the less profitable short haul, or are you now more confident in leisure's ability to plug that gap? Because I think your overall cost expectations into next year are roughly similar to what they were back then.
And the second question is, so seeing some recent concerns highlighted in other industries about the German consumer, which really doesn't seem to be consistent with what you guys are seeing. I'm just wondering, what's the disconnect here? Thank you very much.
Yeah, on the corporate travel, it's obvious you have to look at revenue and number of passengers, right? So, we obviously have higher yields on corporate than before, and indeed, we do have higher yields on corporate than on premium leisure, but the gap between corporate yields and premium leisure yields has come down. So these were all effects, of course, we didn't have in mind when we announced the midterm targets, or Remco did that many years ago. I don't even remember when we would do that, Remco, 2020?
Yes.
Yeah, so quite some time ago. So there have been changes. Of course, there have been new changes, not just on yields, but also on costs, thinking about inflation. But to answer your detailed question, on the German consumer, I think it's worth to say that we are down to 3% of our revenue on German domestic, which is the most lagging behind, I think, traffic flow in all of Europe, due to the high cost of German, you know, airports and infrastructure in general. And we are now down to twenty-five—less than 25% of revenue from Germany for the whole group. And it was just a few years ago, we were above a third, 37, I think, two years ago. So we are less and less depending on the German consumer.
But there's also a shift of consumer priorities around the world, including the German consumer. So while he or she spends less on other topics, he or she loves to fly Lufthansa Group Airlines and spends more on us on average. Great decision of the German consumer.
Great, thank you very much.
The next question comes from Johannes Braun from Stifel. Please go ahead.
Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. First one is for Carsten, I guess, you mentioned it again today, those supply bottlenecks in the industry, restricting the capacity growth and therefore obviously supporting the yields. But I think we have heard some voices from the U.S. recently that there's too much capacity coming through for next year. I'm just curious to hear from you whether there's any reason why Europe would be different here. I think you also mentioned that Lufthansa is less affected by those constraints, compared to your peers, which obviously enables you to grow 10% next year. Can you just repeat why you think this is the case? Why are you better placed than the overall industry growth capacities?
And then secondly, the impact of the GTF engine issue on MRO, just any updated thoughts on to what extent MRO will benefit from the increased maintenance work due to the GTF overall? Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah, Braun, Carsten Spohr. When it comes to the bottlenecks, I think if I read the U.S. news right, they've complained about too much capacity on the domestic U.S. market, including yield problems. And by the way, I think in a way, they have huge cost problems, of course, due to their recent labor agreements. But, I didn't hear any comments of too much capacity on intercontinental routes. As a matter of fact, look at Asia-Pacific, they're just now ramping up the China traffic, two days ago being announced. So I think we're not that different from the U.S. view on long-range intercontinental. On the Geared Turbofan , it is true that Lufthansa Technik will help in two ways.
They will help our airlines by being able to accelerate the fix of the engines by putting them into our own shops, and they will help the bottom line of the Lufthansa Group by pulling in business from other airlines around the world. Due to our partnership with Pratt & Whitney and MTU, we are licensed to do that work on MTU, sorry, on Pratt & Whitney engines. So there's one operational effect, getting the engines back into the air faster. There's a financial effect of potential extra profits through doing work for other airlines around the world.
Yeah, thank you.
The next question comes from Sumit Mehrotra from Société Générale. Go ahead.
Thank you. So I just want to know for next year, what trends you see for your working capital development? What support free capital should see from there? It's a loaded question, given what the expectations about the booking levels and the prices at which they come in. Secondly, fuel, with the same unit cost that you are projecting and the capacity increase is mathematically an EUR 800 million increase that we should expect for next year? Thank you.
Sumit, good morning, Remco here. Let me split the working capital in two elements. First, the prepayments. With further growth, we of course expect prepayments to further grow, and that's a positive working capital impact. The rest of the working capital of receivables, payables, and inventory, as we've said before as well, we expect with the growth no negative impact of the rest of the working capital. That's what we're targeting for, so we have the benefit of the prepayment, and for the rest to stay roughly flat. With regards to the fuel cost, indeed, if the unit fuel cost as we see it now correct, because it's a volatile world, but as we see it now, the unit costs are flat.
Indeed, the increase next year will be purely volume related with a little bit of benefit of the new planes, of course, which use less fuel.
The next question comes from Andrew Lobbenberg from Barclays. Please go ahead.
Hello. Hi, Remco. Hi, Carsten. Can I ask back on, on the GTF, you speak of the opportunity for Lufthansa Technik, but to what extent will, you know, pushing your machines through your lines, will that cap off your ability to take external revenue? 'Cause you don't have an endless supply of engineers. And on the GTF also, how is Swiss doing? 'Cause it has the A220s that are misbehaving as well as the Pratt-powered NEOs. A second question would come back to your productivity push. I think you speak of a 10% productivity gap relative to 2019. How quickly do you realistically expect to close that? I don't suppose you're gonna do it next year. How long do you think it will take to close that? Thanks.
Yeah, Andrew, on the GTF example on Lufthansa Technik, we use them in a similar way when those things happen. We always look at the overall group bottom line of the decision between taking external work in for Lufthansa Technik. So in the end, it's Remco's cash box which defines if Lufthansa Technik takes an external contract or rather uses the capacity for an internal work, which then, of course, needs to result in a higher bottom line effect. So for example, we asked Technik to use resources to help us to bring the A380 back in due time. That was a much better multiple than using the same mechanics to do some external work for a customer. So we'll do the same on the Pratt & Whitney topics.
It's always basically a group optimum first, how we use that, as at Lufthansa Technik, which, by the way, is one of the big discussion points we have with potential investors for minority shares. Swiss, as you know, the A220 engine also has issues. We currently have 3 two twenties on the ground, but it doesn't have the same issues as we'd see on the, A320 , Pratt engine, and, we'll need to look into that if that situation changes. We do believe, with the announced time of shop visit days from Pratt, that Lufthansa Technik can do about 100 days faster, this necessary fix than what Pratt & Whitney has been announced as the average time for a wing-to-wing fix.
The productivity gap, well, as Remco said, we have announced two big programs for next year, an efficiency program and a service excellence program. And I think in both programs, we want to close the gap by the end of 2024, which will depend on many, many things, aircraft deliveries, accessibilities of slots, and so on. So when I look at both, can I promise you that, or can it be in 2025? I think it could well happen, but the way we target things is that 2024 must be the year, the last year of transformation, let me put it that way, from the COVID restrictions we have enjoying to the first full swing year of 2025.
You see that in capacity, 100%, and hopefully also within 2025, we come back to the same service level and the same efficiency level, with 2024 still being used as a transformation.
In the interest of time, we have to stop the Q&A session and hand back to Dennis Weber.
Thank you very much for your great interest out there. I'm aware that we have not been able to answer all questions. Apologies for that, but we've got another call coming up. We'll make sure to get back to you. If there are any other questions open, as usual, don't hesitate to contact us at investor relations directly. We look forward to meeting and speaking with you over the next few weeks and months. Thank you.