MLP SE (ETR:MLP)
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Earnings Call: Q4 2021

Mar 10, 2022

Andreas Herzog
Chief Investor Relations Officer, MLP SE

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and welcome to MLP SE's annual analyst conference regarding our business development in 2021. My name is Andreas Herzog. I would also like to welcome the CEO of MLP, Dr. Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg, as well as our CFO, Reinhard Loose. Before we move straight into our business development, please allow me a brief comment on our agenda and our new video conference format. Following the presentations by Uwe and Reinhard, you will also have the opportunity to ask your questions. You can submit them during the presentations. To do so, please simply use the input mask in your browser.

For this, there are various options available to you. If you'd like to ask your question personally, meaning with audio and video, please note this in the fields in your browser. The option with audio only is also available to you. Our operator will then ask you to activate your microphone and your camera when it's your turn, and you can directly address your question to the speakers. If you would like to ask your questions purely in writing, please simply enter them directly into the input mask. Thank you for your patience. Let us move on to the interesting topics, and I would now like to hand over to Uwe.

Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg
CEO, MLP SE

Yeah. Thank you, Andreas, and warm welcome also from my side, ladies and gentlemen. We are reporting our financial figures of the year 2021 and our recent and planned business developments today. Facing our strong achievements, it should have been a very joyful day. Please allow me this personal remark, it feels rather strange to speak about business in these days. The war in Ukraine and unspeakable distress to the people of Ukraine, women, men, and even children, has cast a shadow over everything in our daily lives. It affects our hearts to see the strong and imperturbable will to fight for their freedom and their independence. I'm personally glad that Germany is backing Ukraine unambiguously and is engaged in the far-reaching measures against the aggressive war of the Russian president as a part of a wide international community.

We are all aware that this geopolitical turning point will have massive effects on society and economy, but I'm also convinced that we will find our way as long as we stay open-minded for necessary changes and a strong will to work even harder. Now, even if it's difficult, coming now to our business results, we have worked for a very exceptionally successful year with regards to the results, and perhaps even more important, to the further development of the MLP Group. Many of you have followed us for years. We delivered a consistent transformation from a broker serving private clients, mainly in old-age provisioning, to a strong and really unique group pillared on attractive customer segments like private mass affluent customers, high net worths, institutional corporates, and even our growing B2B business.

Whatever we did and whatever will be done has a clear purpose and follows strictly our mission to work in the best interest of our customers and to help them to make better financial decisions. The year 2021 is in our way of transformation and development, a very successful interim step. Related to that, I would like to remind you to the beginning of the year 2020. At this time, we disclosed our, in these days, medium-term ambitious planning for 2022. Some of you, if you remember it, classified that as even very ambitious. Today, we can clearly state we are on track and perhaps a little bit more than just being on track. Let me point out now the three most important highlights of this year, 2021.

The total revenues increased in the eighth year of succession to a new all-time high of EUR 934.5 million. That means compared to the year 2020, a growth in more than 20%. This is the most important message, a clear indication of steadily growing trust of our customers and new trust of new customers. Second to the price, despite all these challenging framework conditions, I will highlight later again, the earnings before interest and taxes was significantly above previous years' level with EUR 96.8 million after EUR 59.4 million of 2022.

Therefore, having in mind what we build up, for sure also with respect to the risks of future, especially in these days, we propose a strong dividend growth to EUR 0.30 per share after the EUR 0.23 we have seen in 2022. All this, all these results are a result of successful development and a consequence of our strategic development in the last years. Also a result is that we extended value creation within the MLP Group. Remember, if I speak about 10 years or even 15 years, it was not a time frame or decade of tailwind. It was much more headwind we have seen, it was Corona. We had ongoing pressure of regulation . We had the market crisis in 2008.

New issues coming up like inflation scenarios or even vice versa, the war I just mentioned in Ukraine. This was what we had. More headwind than tailwind, but nevertheless, we did our work. We shaped all the group as it is today, and we're starting to benefit more and more. In such a phase where you have lot of tailwind, it's very important that you have internal clarity, what you want to do. You have a strong belief what to do and a clear compass not to lose any orientation on your way. Part of this is that we clearly have our position. We want to work on the side in the best interest of our customers. We know that we are serving in a highly demanding environment. Financial services is a highly demanding environment.

It's clear also you need cooperative forms, you need work sharing. Last but not least, you have to use also the opportunities, the more digitalized world is offering you. This was part of our genetic footprint and will be also part of our future. Therefore, we have now what we can see here, we have very strong brands in their respective business fields. As you remember, we started with TPC, our broker for occupational pension schemes in 2004. In the meantime, we're the biggest German broker. We bought FERI in 2006 to improve and increase our competency in the wealth management sector and also to enter new customer groups. We went ahead with DOMCURA. We went ahead with DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien . Last but not least, with FOM.

For sure, this is strong merits on its own, but for sure we have to develop. Therefore, also digitalization is one of the key success factors, which improves customer service, but for sure also efficiency. Some examples are, for example, the TPC Portal. That's a very digital solution for companies and employees to do their occupational pension schemes purely online, which is very helpful to reduce costs and to be much more convenient on the other side, or our efforts with MLP Choice to serve those customers more smarter and more efficient, who have less contact to their advisors, mainly in the pure insurance part.

Very important, more and more as we go to the left side, is to use the network to work together, to new, to use the knowledge and know-how we have in the group and to expand the business relations which are part of each member of the group. There are many good examples in the meantime. For example, if MLP advisors have more complex questions of customers and higher volumes in wealth management, they can ask a colleague of FERI to join the desk and to work out the best solution for a customer. We entered new possibilities in a very significant way. MLP and TPC, former students in the meantime, decision makers in companies having the decision power about occupational pension schemes. It's a perfect entry to them. MLP advisors can join with TPC experts, consultants, to work on the right pension plans.

Last but not least, and there are many more examples, FOM and TPC working exactly in the same customer group, corporates. For sure, it's clear that we can use the relationships on both sides also to work on the cross-selling field. Just a few examples. The big message is we believe that in this business we are, it's very complex. It's just possible to be at the state-of-the-art if you are using a network, and this is what we have built up in the recent years. The payout is very visible, as you have just seen. We have ongoing improvement of our customer service, and we have ongoing improvement of the turnover, which is just a result, outcome of growing trust of customers, and for sure, very important in the bottom line, ongoing profitability.

I love to see my CFO smiling when I'm saying that. Before I want to hand over to Reinhard, I would like to use the opportunity to thank the fabulous MLP team. We're more than 4,000 members of the group in the meantime. They did again a fabulous job in 2021. It was not easy, but with our clear view on the priority to be very close to our customers, we managed a fantastic year. Thank you very much. We are looking forward for the next steps in the future. Now I hand over to Reinhard. Thank you.

Reinhard Loose
CFO, MLP SE

Thank you very much, Uwe, and also warm welcome from my side. Following a highly dynamic fourth quarter, total revenue rose by 22% to EUR 934.5 million, setting a new all-time high. This means that MLP has now recorded continuous growth in total revenue for eight years in a row. At EUR 894.6 million, commission income, comprising commissions and fees, increased significantly and represent the greatest share of this positive development. In terms of the closing quarter, the increase was 24%. In the last financial year, MLP was able to generate growth in all fields of consulting. Having enjoyed 12 years of growth in succession, wealth management is again the largest consulting field on an annual basis. This is the result of highly positive development in MLP's private client business, and also at FERI.

Alongside excellent operational development among both private and institutional clients, the significantly higher performance-based compensation already mentioned also made a key contribution to this. In fact, these generated revenue of EUR 66.9 million for the financial year. However, I would like to stress that here, that achieving this level of revenue was definitely not a foregone conclusion. Above average performance of wealth concepts is what made this possible. For the fourth year in a row, real estate brokerage delivered the greatest percentage growth, with revenue up 59% to around EUR 62.8 million. MLP has been expanding its activities in this field since 2014. We were thus able to continue and further expedite the significant growth already recorded in previous quarters in this consulting field.

Indeed, the 59% increase in revenue, following on from the 39% recorded after the first six months, and 53% after the first nine months of the year, once again underlines the importance of real estate for our clients, and that more and more consultants are successfully positioning this as part of the full scope client consulting service. At the same time, the product business that is successfully operated by our subsidiary, DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien, made a significant contribution. At 15%, we also recorded a significant increase in revenue from loans and mortgages. This is due to the ongoing high demand for real estate. According to information provided by the Zentraler Immobilien Ausschuss, the average purchase price across all categories in Germany rose to EUR 3,140/ sq m in 2021.

In comparison to 2020, this development has therefore been further reinforced. We also enjoyed strong development in old age provision. Following the declines recorded throughout 2020 due to the effects of the coronavirus pandemic, revenue rose by 13% over the same period in the previous year. This too is the result of intensive client consulting. The strong closing quarter, with an increase of 15% over the previous year's figure, also made a key contribution to this. The gains realized in the financial year came as well from the fields of private and also from occupational pension provision. In the case of the latter, the situation was particularly challenging in the same period of 2020, as many employers were clearly facing different challenges and had other priorities during the stage of the coronavirus pandemic.

We are therefore all the more delighted to return to our growth path in this field. The fields of non-life insurance and health insurance both recorded also gains in the last financial year. The MLP Group was serving 562,300 family clients as of the 31st of December. With 21,100, the gross number of newly acquired family clients was well above the previous year's figure. We also served 24,800 corporate and institutional clients, which represents yet another important increase. We already offered you a first glimpse of the additional potential that this holds within our group early on. Please now allow me to move on to the income statement on slide seven of the presentation.

As already mentioned, with an EBIT of EUR 996.8 million, MLP recorded an unexpectedly significant increase over the previous year's figure. Group net profit rose to EUR 62.8 million in the last financial year. You can find the most important financial key figures from the balance sheet on the next page. Accordingly, the equity ratio as of the 31st of December was 13.4%. The return on equity is 13.8%, which is more than 3.9 percentage points above the previous year's figures. Our core capital ratio on this reporting date was 17.9%. In summary, we are on strong economic footing in the group. The positive development in the MLP Group, our strong economic basis, and our confidence in the future are also expressed in the dividend proposal by the Executive Board.

Indeed, the dividend payout is set to be EUR 0.30 per share. Following on from EUR 0.23 for the financial year 2020 and EUR 0.21 for 2019, this represents yet another significant increase. At 52% of group net profit, the payout ratio is within the announced corridor. As such, we are once again allowing our shareholders to participate appropriately in the excellent development our company has enjoyed. We've also launched another share buyback program. In the period since January 3rd, we have acquired 442,000 shares with a total value of EUR 3.6 million on the stock exchange, which we'll use for our participation program for MLP branch office managers and MLP consultants. By taking this step, we are keen to further strengthen the collaborative component in our business model.

Finally, please allow me to say a few words on our share price. The capital market has not only honored the excellent development we recorded over the course of the last financial year, but is also increasingly recognizing our growth prospects. The price increase of almost 60% in 2021, and the positive feedback from numerous capital market conferences clearly demonstrate this. The average upside target for our share from the analysts tracking our performance is now in the double-digit range, and therefore offers further potential.

To offer a brief summary at this point, we've recently shown that we can create value for the shareholders, not only through our dividend, but also our share price performance. This should remain even if global stock markets suffer major temporary setbacks. Please now join me in welcoming Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg again, who will talk more about how we intend to continue along this successful path. Uwe?

Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg
CEO, MLP SE

Yeah. Thank you, Reinhard. Thank you very much. Yeah, the capital markets have also already perceived our targets and achievements in our sustainability management, which is getting more and more important. When I'm saying that, it's, I think, very important also to understand it's not just because we have to report about this or because we are clearly convinced to every member of the group that we have to contribute to transform our economy to more sustainability, to less emissions of CO2. This is our strong belief and therefore we are working also with all what we already have to invest. Therefore, for example, we are now climate neutral for 2022. We switched our whole energy supply to renewable energies. We worked about our mobility concepts and whatever.

We just launched our new dedicated sustainability policy for the MLP Group. We already in 2022 achieved the Prime status of ISS, we are one of the best 10% of our benchmark group in the sector. That means also for those investors, the growing number of investors, who are looking on these aspects, I think we should be of interest as a company and as investment. That's a very important part for the future. We are seeing that in all our customer groups that this question is more and more relevant also for financial advice.

That means also for sure, with our competency, with our educational capabilities, with our freedom as a broker to work also on these aspects with our product partners, I think we are in the best position to be a very relevant player for our customers who have more and more this question. What is sustainable? Where can I invest? What is important for me? What are risks behind that? What are the positive possible returns? This requires a lot of insights and knowledge, and therefore we are preparing. We see here also a strategic potential to strengthen our position even more in the forthcoming years. One of the major achievements of our strategy is the steady growth of stability. For sure, also measured in the number of recurring revenues.

Therefore, there are two figures which are quite prominent. To illustrate that is on the left hand, the assets under management, which grew up to EUR 56.6, as Reinhard mentioned. This is for sure an incredible number. Nobody would have believed it 10 years ago, and we are now in the meantime more or less comparable to the big German private banks. It happened because FERI delivered very strong in their customer groups, new customers, increasing volumes of existing customers. What makes us very happy, and also this is a big question for the strategic future of MLP, the still even young MLP customer group is now entering more and more in this sector also with us. For sure, everybody can calculate on its own which big potential is where.

That means also we are getting more and more relevant in the competition against the typical banks, like Sparkassen or Genossenschaftsbanken or the big banks. We were very glad besides all the positive net inflows that especially the net inflows in the MLP Banking world, which is reflecting the business with our mass affluent MLP customers, was again on a record level and increased by another 100% compared to the year 2020. Even if the setbacks will come up, this is a big message for the future that we are more and more competitive in this sector. On the right side, the other initiative, if you look to the non-life insurance portfolio, volumes with a number of EUR 555 million.

It's comparable to, in Germany, to a mid-sized insurer. Just to give you an indication of the relevance we have in the meantime in market. By the way, for you as investor, quite important in opposition to insurers, we do that with significant less risks, if you should be aware of that. Speaking about future, that means also to inform you about our position in the industrial broker segment. Where are we? As you remember, we informed you last year that we will now enter this market. We made it the first big acquisition with RVM, which is a company in this middle field, this highly fragmented market we have. For sure, a clear target is to be really relevant here and come up to the big 10 companies in Germany.

Very important after the first nine months is the status, what has happened. There's a very good message here, FOM had its best year ever in acquisition of new premiums after the acquisition. This, for sure, also a good signal for you as investors because we all know acquisitions are easy to illustrate on PowerPoint, but very difficult to some extent to manage it. This seems to be the next proof point after several examples we had in the past, that we're able with our knowledge and our competency, but also very important with our culture, to invite new colleagues to come up to the group, to strengthen the group, and then to do even better now than before. Very important interim status for this.

For sure, we are going ahead with working out the common potential we have with MLP and FOM. As you know, we are not only open for further acquisitions, we are in an active mode here to have a geographical coverage, which is important in this business for Germany and for sure, by the way, we also try to find the right targets which help us also to enter specific knowledge segments, for example, medicine business or whatever. These are the guiding principles of our further acquisitions, and we're a very active mode. We can expect that, as we said, in the next forthcoming two-three years, there will be some one-two further acquisitions per year. Typically, it's much smaller size than we had with FOM because this is the last point.

For sure, our strategy is in opposition to some other active players in the market. We want to bring it really together. That means also from a technological point of view, we want to work on one system because otherwise you don't have the possibility to reach also the necessary synergies you need to have if you take also the risk of acquisitions and especially if you invest some money there. One new example of our strategy, and this is not new to our idea to monetize what we have and to scale what we have, is the new MLP School of Financial Education, which is an even young, still young baby of MLP Corporate University. Now we also offer to external participants our programs of financial education.

We all know that especially in Germany, educational levels are rather low, too low, starting in schools and also later. We have different offerings. As a starting offering, we also will make our experience there, but this is the next good step now to scale up what we already have. For example, we are open for certified financial planners outside from MLP to offer them also entry to our programs. We have specific programs for medics and physicians, for entrepreneurs, for example, or also for companies. We often run now financial educational programs for employees or career central for young professionals.

This is a good example how we are developing our existing competencies and offer it step- by- step to the market and try for sure also to get more relevance and even more reputation in this sector, because we strictly believe that our industry needs more and more professional players, and education is one of the keys in our sector. Now coming to the forecast 2022. What we have seen now with this interim step 2021, so that we are benefiting from our implemented growth drivers, we started to explain in 2020. We are confirming our old midterm target, which is now the forecast for next year of EUR 75 million-EUR 85 million. Which on the first view seems to be a little bit defensive after our strong results. I think it's key.

It's key to understand that for sure we had a strong benefit in 2021 of the performance fees and the concepts also in 2020, and we are not planning that for the future. It would not be appropriate to plan such a level. We are just planning for next year and the forthcoming years with higher single-digit million number in performance fees. That means significantly less than what we have seen in 2020 and 2021. You see that in the footnote with some EUR 67 million in last year or the year before, EUR 35 million or 36 million, which is nothing we can plan. If you deduct that, you can see that we are on track on one hand and that the next step makes sense, EUR 75 million-EUR 85 million.

For sure, if something is going better, it's going better. We will not be close to that, but it's a strong ambition and we will work forward. It's backed by our growth drivers, as just mentioned. Also backed because we had a strong investment phase in the last years. Young business, but also IT infrastructure with some CapEx, but also expenses. Therefore, the benefits are coming out. We feel more comfortable then to reach the new forecast, which is the old midterm planning, EUR 75 million-EUR 85 million . If you look more to details of the revenue expectations here. Wealth management, don't be nervous because here is a minus. Coming back to this point, for sure we cannot plan with more than EUR 60 million in performance fees or EUR 30 million.

We planned, as I just said, a higher single-digit number. That means therefore it should be a double minus. Maybe I'll just take the performance fees. On the other side, I just mentioned, we are very positive on our customer growth, on the increasing volumes of existing customers, as well in FERI, as well in MLP Banking sector. That means overall, bringing that together, there's a single minus. Again, please, to be very clear, we are very positive on this sector, and it's one of the key success factors for long-term future of MLP and MLP Group. We are positive about old age provisioning due to our young segment which is growing. Even if the advisor number is just stable now between 2001 and 2020. We did a significant step.

We are with 470 young advisors, quite at the level we are targeting, 500-550. It means also we are sure, quite sure we reach this level of 500-550 up to the end of this year. We are very positive that the occupational pension business, which has a very weak phase in 2020, coming up in 2021 is also a good contributor to a positive development here. We are double positive for non-life because we have now the strong effect of RVM, which is now the full year, fully booked, and will have a very significant impact for this year, 2022. We are still very positive in the real estate brokerage, which is still a young business.

For sure, we are a big player in the meantime, but reputation is also quite helpful to be even more successful. We are neutral, which is a good message from my point of view, for the health insurance business. We expect still a further growth in the loans and mortgages, where we already reached high levels. For sure, it's also correlated to the real estate brokerage. This was 2022. The forecast now coming to the new medium-term plan. Coming from this level of EUR 75 million-EUR 85 million expected for 2022. We are expecting for 2025, EBIT between EUR 100 million-EUR 110 million, and sales should come up above EUR 1.1 billion.

It is based on what's new, because there's no reason to change something which was very successful. Never change a winning team. Increasing assets under management as one of the key factors. Sustainable growth in all the sectors we have seen over four years, and there's no reason why we should not go ahead. For sure, the still young segment of real estate business. Everything is based for sure on ongoing cost discipline and cost efficiency. What is not included in our plan is M&A activities. Everything here should be added up because we cannot plan something like that. Otherwise, it could cause silly decisions if you plan something like that.

We take care that we get the right targets, we get the right people in, we get the right cultural match, and we have the time also to work out a cooperative working fundament. These are the main things. Again, I have to point out that we were careful with the performance fees in this planning. For sure, if we assume that the assets under management will increase, our baseline for performance-based compensation will be further improved. That means also if markets should be a little bit more easy again in the future, there could be additional potential, which is for sure highly welcomed, but not explicitly planned. To get some little more deep insight into the success factors, we can see the assets under management.

We expect from today's point of view a level of some EUR 62 billion-EUR 68 billion up to 2025, and ongoing contributions as in the private sector, but as well in the institutional sector. Sustainable growth. I would like to highlight again the young segment. Perhaps remember, we made a big change in 2017 with a new model to work in the segment. We are ahead of our business plan, so we reached more than the breakeven last year. That means also the leverage should be expected now in this year. That means also significant earnings contribution in 2022, and for sure also in the following years. For sure, as I have to say it again, we have now a proved track record with broad growth in all the segments.

We assume also here further growth rates, which, for us, are perhaps not as extreme as last year. Even with higher single digit numbers, I think we are in a very good position. Last but not least, the still young but successful real estate business, which is still relevant, especially also in our core fields of old-aged living, for example, we expect further growth in the volumes, and we want to see up to 2025 a level of EUR 600 million-EUR 640 million of real estate volume broked by us.

For sure also, we work on our further controlled project business with ongoing increasing earnings contribution in the forthcoming years. This is our plan for 2025. There's ambition, but also there's a good confidence that we prepared the fundamentals that we had very strong insurance results. I just think we are in perfect position now to do the next step on the earnings level. That means also to come to the end and to summarize the most important points.

There were a series of big challenges in the last years we overcome. We seized opportunities in the markets, and we had a very successful exceptional year in 2021. MLP Group is now stronger and more diversified than ever before. It's a new MLP. It's not comparable to MLP 15 or 20 years ago. At the same time, in our transformation process, we worked out additional growth potential, which is reflected in our forecast 2022 and our planning for 2025. We are confident to start the year despite all these increased risk in the markets like Ukraine war, like inflation scenarios and whatever. We will go on focused on the next period of growth with a planned EBIT of EUR 100 million-EUR 110 million in 2025. Thank you now for your time, your patience, and we are now waiting and are open for your questions. Thank you.

Andreas Herzog
Chief Investor Relations Officer, MLP SE

Well, thank you, Uwe and Reinhard. Ladies and gentlemen, we now come to the Q&A session. For this, as I said, simply use the input mask in your browser. You can choose whether you want to ask your question with audio and video, with audio only, or purely in writing. Once again, please note, if you want to ask your question personally, meaning with audio and video, please make a note of this in the text field. The option with audio only is, of course, also possible.

Our operator will then ask you to activate your camera and your microphone, and as soon as it's your turn, you can directly address your question to the speakers. We have already some questions in. The first questions come from Christian Salis from Hauck & Aufhäuser. Thank you very much. One topic is regarding the performance fees. We already touched slightly in the presentations. Mr. Salis wants to go a little bit deeper and is interested in how much performance fees are included in our 2022 guidance and how much performance fees are included in our 2025 target.

Reinhard Loose
CFO, MLP SE

Yeah. Hello, Mr. Salis. I think the figure was already mentioned by Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg. I can repeat the figure for both years because in both years, we planned a higher single-digit million EUR amount.

Andreas Herzog
Chief Investor Relations Officer, MLP SE

Thank you. The next topic is regarding the development of DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien, and he is asking if you can provide an update of the development of own projects at DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien. Second question, if there is any negative effect expected on real estate brokerage from rising interest rates.

Reinhard Loose
CFO, MLP SE

Okay. Update on the development of own projects. Yes, I think you knew this from our last telephone audience. We are a little bit behind plan there. Definitely, the major reason there is that we still waiting in many projects for approval, for official approvals to start building. Therefore, we are in general a little bit behind plan, but nevertheless, we have around or more than 20 projects in the pipeline next to the projects which are ongoing. Therefore, in the future or in the outlook, as Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg also mentioned, we are quite positive. I think the good question about interest rates. The question is, where will the interest rates be in one or two year? I think this is the question and extremely difficult to answer.

We know we are on record low rates, or we were on record low rates some weeks ago. We also see that due to the turbulences, which are in respect to the Ukraine crisis, we are a little bit back to lower interest rates again. Therefore, I would say if we are in the interest level as we are now, if the interest rate will go up, let's say, for 100 basis points, 120, 140 basis points, I think this will not affect. Obviously, there will be effect, but I think it will not affect too much, the demand for real estate.

I think for us, it's also important to emphasize again that we obviously broker all types of investment real estate projects or objects, but we have a special emphasis on real estate for senior housing. This is an area where we see increasing demand in the future, and therefore, we continue to be positive in this area. Thank you.

Andreas Herzog
Chief Investor Relations Officer, MLP SE

Thank you very much. Our next question comes from Philipp Häßler, Pareto Securities, and he will join us via audio. Please, Philipp Häßler, go ahead.

Philipp Häßler
Equity Research Analyst, Pareto Securities

Yes. Hello. Can you hear me?

Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg
CEO, MLP SE

Yes, very good.

Philipp Häßler
Equity Research Analyst, Pareto Securities

Oh, very good. Technology is always amazing. My questions: firstly, could you please comment on the current status of your assets under management, maybe end of February? Secondly, the net flows in Q4, please. Also on the tax rate, which was relatively high at 33%, maybe you could give an outlook for the current year. Last but not least, the dividend, we saw a nice increase to EUR 0.30. Nevertheless, I mean, the payout ratio was relatively low at only 52%. Could I interpret it that way, that you didn't wanna raise your dividend absolute terms too much so that you are able to keep it stable this year? I mean, next year then.

Reinhard Loose
CFO, MLP SE

Thank you for answering your question. Yes, Mr. Häßler. I think this interpretation is totally right. Obviously, you know that we announced a payout ratio, and we want to stay in the payout ratio. On the other side, we also, which we didn't announce, but obviously it's our target not to lower our dividend, and therefore the payout of EUR 0.30 per share has the reflection of a possible dividend payout in the following 12 months also in our mind, and therefore, yes, there is a relation. Tax rate. Yes, the tax rate is a little bit higher.

This has something to do with the acquisition of RVM and the, let's say, special complexity of this. This will be a one-year effect from next year onwards. We again expect a tax rate of a little bit less than 30%. Coming back to the assets under management, as always, I don't give the quarter, but I know that you have every quarter, and therefore I give you the full year and then you see what is related to every quarter. For the full year, we had inflows of EUR 12 billion in FERI and MLP, and we had outflows of EUR 3 billion.

Therefore, I think a very positive development. This positive development continues also in 2022. Obviously, I won't go into details of the figures. Definitely we also see some influence of the, say, development of the capital markets overall in our assets under management, but the positive trend of last year also continues in 2022.

Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg
CEO, MLP SE

Perhaps it's worthwhile also to make a fair remark here to your questions about development of assets under management during the year. Also, I think it's covering all the questions about risks which could come up in this world. Again, we can see here that MLP is a very diversified approach. This is our philosophy to work with customers, and for sure it's reflected also in the way the group is built up. That means, for example, to be more concrete, speaking about assets under management, we are working on a multi-asset management approach.

That means we are not speaking just about stocks. We are speaking about hedge funds, infrastructure, private equity, whatever. We have one of the biggest private equity and hedge fund teams in Germany and Europe with FERI. That means this is also one of the strengths I spoke about, that we are much more balanced in the direction how we work with our customers and the outcomes also with our turnover, and our results are much more balanced. For sure, there are some risks, but you can see also that this is very important to understand if you compare us to other players in our industry.

Andreas Herzog
Chief Investor Relations Officer, MLP SE

Thank you very much. Perhaps we wait for a second to see if there is a little time shift. For the moment, I can see no further questions. So that seems that all necessary information has been given and all questions have been answered. Should you have any further questions maybe arising later, please do not hesitate to contact the MLP IR team directly. A recording of this conference will be available on our website as soon as this call is concluded. Thank you for your attention, and with that, we bid you farewell and wish you a good day. Goodbye.

Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg
CEO, MLP SE

Thank you so much. All the best. Bye-bye.

Reinhard Loose
CFO, MLP SE

Bye-bye.

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