Dear ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Earnings Call of Nemetschek Group. At our customer's request, this conference will be recorded. As a reminder, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. If any participant has difficulty hearing the conference, please press star key followed by zero on your telephone for operator assistance. May I now hand you over to Stefanie Zimmermann, VP Investor Relations, who will lead you through this conference. Please go ahead.
Perfect, and thank you, operator. Hello, everybody, and welcome to our Conference Call. Thank you for joining us to discuss the results for the third quarter and the first nine months of 2021 with us. Today's conference call is being recorded. A replay of the call will be available at our website after the call. As always, we have prepared a short presentation with the most important figures and strategic highlights. You will find the presentation, the quarterly report, and press release on our investor relations website as well. Now, let's get started. I would like to hand over to our spokesman, Axel Kaufmann, who will lead you through the presentation. Go ahead, Axel.
Thank you, Stefanie. Also from my side, a warm welcome to our today's Earnings Call of the Third Quarter of this Fiscal Year. As usual, as Stefanie said, we have prepared a short slide deck. Let me briefly walk you through so that we have sufficient time for the Q&A session afterwards. Starting with page number 3, here's an overview of the key figures of the third quarter. On a high level, a very successful development with a continuation of the trends we saw in the first half of the year, which is strong growth combined with high profitability. Our top line grew by almost 14%. Main growth drivers were once again our subscription and SaaS revenues, with an increase of almost 50% on a currency-adjusted basis.
Based on this, we were able to increase the share of subscription and SaaS revenues to a new record high of 20%. The strong increase in profitability corresponds to a margin of more than 32%, 70 basis points expansion over the already high prior year figure. This was a function of the high level of revenues and improved efficiency as well as a healthy operating leverage. Our earnings per share, EPS, increased over proportionally by 36% to now EUR 0.30 per share. Moving on to the next slide, number 4, which illustrates our growth pattern over the last quarters. As we all remember, we felt the main impact of the pandemic in the second quarter of last year before our business picked up again very quickly and started the recovery that prolonged into and even accelerated this fiscal year.
On the next page, we show a summary of our key business highlights after the first nine months. Despite a substantial foreign exchange headwind in the first half year, mainly stemming from a weaker U.S. dollar, we were able to achieve year-to-date revenues of EUR 494 million, a growth of 13%. On a currency neutral consideration, we even grew by almost 16%. Besides the strong top line and margin increase, our cash conversion hit new heights with more than 100% conversion rate. As I do not want to focus only on our financial performance, I'd also like to highlight our various ongoing strategic initiatives which continued successfully. First, our internationalization efforts, so bringing our established European brands to the U.S. and vice versa, which contributed to our growth.
Second, and simultaneously, we continued to work on our solutions and the reduction of the group's complexity to make doing business with Nemetschek as easy as possible. Lastly, the ongoing growth of our subscription and SaaS offering underpin the success of a segment's tailored strategy in which each segment's subscription strategy is based on its geographic exposure, the customer needs, and their acceptance. Moving on to page 6, where we see the entire picture of the development of our recurring revenues. The executive team is very pleased with the development. The chart on the left side, for example, shows the impressive multi-year development of this revenue category.
While we started with a share of just 5% of total revs in 2018, we were able to gradually increase our subscription share from 9% to 15% and even 20%, as mentioned before, of today. During the last year, we promised an acceleration on this, of which we now are delivering, and there is more to come. As a consequence, this drove the share of the entire recurring revenues to now be at 63% of total sales. On page 7, we provide an overview of our most important P&L balance sheet and cash flow positions. Once again, focusing on cash as one lead indicator for the quality of our earnings. Operating cash flow increased over proportionally by 60%, driven by the strong increase in earnings and supported by an improvement in various working capital measures.
Combined with the lower investments compared to last year, free cash flow ex M&A increased even by 64%. Hence, we further improved the healthiness of our balance sheet, represented in important metrics such as the equity ratio, which is now at 52% compared to 45% last year, and a net cash position of more than EUR 100 million. This extremely solid balance sheet, virtually no debt, provides us with a high degree of safety and flexibility to act going forward. On the next page, we deep dive into the individual divisions. Starting from the left side, design recorded an increase in revenues of 7.6%, driven by a very strong subscription growth of 74% year-over-year. The EBITDA margin stayed on a similar high level like last quarter's.
Please keep in mind that Design segment's margin in last year's third quarter was somewhat artificially high due to the cost savings measures we quickly implemented during the peak of the uncertainty caused by the pandemic. Moving on to our Build segment, which continued its strong growth momentum from the last quarter with almost 17% growth and a very high margin level. The largest contributor to this result was once again our largest brand, Bluebeam, which continued its strong growth in also new users. The continued success confirms the strategic decision to shift the start of the subscription and SaaS migration of Bluebeam into 2022. In our Manage segment, we saw a continued growth of almost 14%, where we were able to win new significant customers despite a still somewhat challenging market environment.
Finally, our media segment had a stellar quarter with record results in terms of growth, 37% year-over-year, as well as profitability. The segment with its major brand, Maxon, went through a very successful transformation over the last couple of years by many means, which is now paying off nicely. Let's turn to slide number 9, where we often talk about the close relationships we have with our customers. This is an integral part of Nemetschek's DNA and also one of our main strengths, in my opinion. All of this does not just happen by itself. Apart from hard work and a service-oriented mindset, it also requires meeting our customers on a regular basis. Due to the global COVID-19 pandemic, we had to pivot our approach to a more virtual one.
The teams did a great job with several high-profile events such as the Bluebeam XCON, Graphisoft Building Together Conference, and most recently, Allplan's Global Summit. Those are not substitutes, but complementary actions to physical meetings, of course. Therefore, we're very happy that in the beginning of the fourth quarter, we picked up visiting in-person industry shows and trade fairs again, such as the upcoming BIM World Munich, which, with its more than 8,000 participants, and where 10 Nemetschek brands will be present on-site. As usual, and before we come to our outlook for the full financial year, let me briefly give you an update on the current state of our different end markets.
This page number 11 summarizes the AEC segments, whereas it's fair to say that the overall situation has not materially changed in the recent weeks and months, and that almost all lights are still on green regarding the current market environment as well as our future outlook. First, the residential sector continues to be very buoyant, mainly driven by the demand for homes in an environment of historically low interest rates. The same is true for the infrastructure market overall, where we see a very healthy demand situation at the moment, which is additionally supported by the various planned or already passed government investments, such as major infrastructure programs. Some degree of uncertainty remains with the subcategory of commercial offices. We are seeing facility managers, for example, still acting a bit more cautiously with their investments while people are getting back to their offices gradually.
To summarize today's key points on the next page, I'd say Nemetschek reports a very successful first 9 months of the year 2021, which featured several strategic and operational highlights. Looking at the bigger picture, we can see that our long-term structural growth drivers, such as the low degree of digitalization, increasing BIM regulations, or the need for more energy efficient and environmentally friendly construction, are fully intact and offer substantial growth potential for the many years to come. That is why we're convinced that our strong market position, together with our product and our close customer relationships, will further support our growth. With this, concluding the presentation with an updated 2021 outlook on this page.
As a result of our strong first nine months of the year, intact long-term growth drivers, our strong operational business with a high proportion of predictable plannable revenues and its broad regional and market-related diversification, we're confident to reach the upper end of our previously increased guidance for this fiscal year. Our assessment is based on the assumption that there will be no material deterioration in the economic conditions in the fourth quarter and that the COVID pandemic will continue to be under control. Rest assured that we will continue to monitor the situation very closely and that Nemetschek is well prepared to act swiftly and decisively should the situation change. With that, I'd like to thank you for attention during today's call, and we're happy now to take any of your questions. Operator, please back to you.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question for our speaker, please dial zero and two on your telephone keypad now to enter the queue. Once your name has been announced, you can ask a question. If you find your question is answered before it is your turn to speak, you can dial zero and two to cancel your question. If you're using speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selection. One moment, please, for the first question. The first question is from Chandra Sylvanus. Your line is now open.
Yeah. Hi. Thanks. Thanks for taking my question. Afternoon, Axel. Afternoon, Stefanie. Just a couple of questions from my side. Design growth slowed a bit. I was just wondering if there are any timing issues. I did notice that you mentioned that subscription picked up. Are you seeing a trend here, or is it too early to draw a line there? Number two is Bluebeam transition. Are we still on for 2022? The demand seems to be
Quite strong even in Q3. Would you reconsider postponing this, or, are you quite clear that the transition is gonna happen next year? Thanks.
Yeah, thank you, Chandra, for both of your, I think, very good questions. First of all, let me talk about design a little bit. As a matter of fact, no, there's no reconsideration or any change in prospects of going forward positive sentiment that we have on this segment and the division. There's a couple of things maybe to be noted. First of all, we would have seen some people just you know taking a bit of vacation probably well-deserved during August, September, especially in the DACH region, remembering that our design business is more European-centered than maybe with competitors in a prolonged holiday season. That has led to less people being active.
I think that was notably seen both, you know, in our own company and other companies with customers. It doesn't mean that overall the activity out there and the project mid and long term is somewhat seen differently. Definitely structural, I have no doubts, be positive about this, and we shouldn't overinterpret, I'd say, one quarter, even though also if I just look at, you know, how the fourth quarter really has started.
I'm glad you picked up the strong subscription growth there, which naturally, you know, will encounter a slight shift here from perpetual, maybe even some from some maintenance contracts going into the subscription, which, you know that we go through the staged approach, and I'm happy to see Design actually moving in that direction, finally now after years of very careful considerations and testing and preparations. That I think is just two little elements of maybe an explanation there. Notwithstanding the comparables, of course, that you might remember also from the last year when Q2 was certainly somewhat easier one to beat, given the sharp decline that we were facing last year.
Altogether, positive, absolutely, and no reason to change any of our positive minds here going forward. The same, by the way, for your second part of the question, if I can just say loud and clearly that, yes, Bluebeam will continue to prepare very precisely and very professionally the shift from perpetual to subscription. Everything is on track. The team is very motivated. We'll figure out the perfect or best timing really during, you know, the next few months. We're back now sitting around the table analyzing, and business is on an all-time high in terms of the user growth, as you were saying yourself.
That's, I think, the very positive one here that whenever we really start launching that then, which will happen next year, once again, to underline that, we're starting probably from the highest level ever, in terms of the install base and the customer usage. I think that's a very, very strong position to come from going in such a transition.
Great. Thank you. Maybe a quick question on multimedia. It's performing very well. I'm just wondering, it's now almost a fourth of a much larger build. How should we look at multimedia, your competitive position and more immediate-term growth in this space?
Yeah. Thank you very much for the follow up question. I think, we're very proud of what got accomplished there in the last couple of years, thinking that, you know, this was kind of the fifth wheel and we were only, you know, minority kind of invested in this one. All the steps that I think the company has taken there were strategically, you know, going in the right direction. The integration was certainly not an easy one to you know, have various balls in the air. It really pays off very nicely.
I think we have built, and that we can say today, a significant player that you should think of, kind of, you know, another almost separate, very appealing, interesting story, which we will, again, not lose focus from the AEC core business, that we're engaged and have a strong position there. I think we're ramping up something that could be really something big, and we're willing to continuously invest in that business and also talk a bit more about it, which you might have noted we did recently, as requested by many of you for many years. We first wanted to get some of the homework done, before we would go out there and disclose a bit more of our thinking and the outlook.
There's more to come and I think all reasons to be quite positive on this one.
Perfect. Thank you.
You're welcome.
The next question is from Sven Merkt, Barclays. Your line is now open.
Great. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. The first one is just on the guidance. If I look at the high, and it obviously implies now for Q4, just about high single-digit growth, which looks pretty conservative to me, are there any reasons why growth should slow down sequentially? Secondly, it was good to hear that the internationalization of the business is progressing well. Now, I'm just wondering what your plans are around that next year. Are you giving internationalization a further push, given that it was probably a bit more difficult to do that over the last two years?
Thank you, Sven. I was just writing down your second part of the question. Hope I caught this. Yeah, thanks for the, you know, remark on the overall guidance in the Q4. I mean, first of all, let's see that we wouldn't say that slow necessarily would slow down. I think that's an interpretation. Well, my personal view is a double digit growth really in Q4. Being very confident to reach the 14%, you know, almost at minimum, right? That's gonna close a very successful year overall. The comparables of course need to be taken into consideration.
I think when we look at individual single quarters, let's not forget about the long-term trend and how we would overall close, you know, this year. The second part of your question regarding 2022, I think all of those activities that we were having seen in this regard are gonna continue. I wouldn't see any of them dropping down that proved us right, you know, from the aspect that you mentioned, internationalization, for example, to some of the segment strategies that we shared with you. That's gonna continue. We're not done yet. I think there's again more to come. That's gonna mean some work, but again, it proves us right that we can do that and we'll march on.
Yeah. I didn't want to imply that you would slow down or stop that. I would just ask if there's an opportunity to essentially accelerate a bit internationalization or if you know, travel reopens now next year.
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, we're going both directions across the Atlantic, we could say. I think design is making great progress currently in some of the pockets of the business and brands going to the U.S. We're certainly not the incumbent, but we're the challenger and that's also an appealing position. I'm seeing the numbers and I'm actually pleased by them. We're also going the other direction. We've invested into, for example, an installed team here across Europe in various places, most recently in the DACH region for the Bluebeam organization. We're seeing significant wins that make us enable us to reach a critical mass and also some good showcases.
Yes, that's part of the growth as the last few quarters as well. We're actually committed to let this continue that way because I think this is the complementary growth that gets us become more international.
Okay. That's very clear. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from Florian Treisch, ODDO BHF. Your line is now open.
Yeah. Hi gentlemen. Thanks for taking my question. Two left on my side. The first one is on the cost base. You mentioned now looking into Q4, you will see a big fairs in a physical form again. You are still only seeing below 3% employee growth year-over-year in Q3, so probably clearly below a typical run rate for you. What is probably your best guess for the coming quarters? Will we kind of finally really see a nice acceleration in OpEx levels? The second part is, as you mentioned now above EUR 100 million net cash, so you're probably not a bank collecting money, so what can you do with that? Is there any change in a kind of more aggressive M&A willing to pay higher multiples and so on? Thank you very much.
Thank you, Florian, for the two questions. First of all, I don't think we'll see a dramatic change in, you know, the OpEx levels overall. Just, you know, comparing month after month, but we'll see a gradual one. Here is a commitment to go out there to the customers to spend time, as you say, on fairs, to recruit people, to hire, to increase the staff because we know that there is a burden on the existing organization. We know that we're operating in a tough labor and job market out there, but I think we're a very attractive address to attract talent and we'll continue. The intent and the ambition is clearly there. Those would be the main categories of OpEx growth.
No doubt that we would've seen that already in the last couple of weeks and months, and we'll continue to see that, but not really completely drastic. I think more sequentially really, quarter-over-quarter in a well-managed way. That's definitely the commitment. Second, you're right. There's a firepower that we ought to use, but only if it's really right? I don't think we were ever shy in paying the right multiples for the right assets of good quality. We're having our radar screen spanned. We have startups that we would've invested. We have the own organization that we would invest. We have a few medium-sized things that we currently are finding ourselves in diligence.
Again, as I said over the last two quarters, in this kind of environment, you may wanna be well advised, in my opinion, to be carefully looking at things twice, rather than just, you know, break something over the knee as we like to see. M&A remains, you know, be it M&A, be it startups, remains a complementary area to invest. That's what we are planning to use the firepower for, and I'm positive that there's gonna be one or other announcement in those regards going forward.
Perfect. Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
The next question is from Knut Woller, Baader Bank. Your line is now open.
Yeah, thank you. Also a couple of questions from my side. First, looking at the recurring revenues, we saw after a pretty slow start reflecting the license momentum last year that maintenance picked up now in the third quarter. Adding all the moving parts together, is it fair to assume that the recurring growth should continue to accelerate going into 2022? The second question on the margin, I know you provide guidance at the beginning of the year, but it looks like you're now ahead of your already raised margin targets, understanding the shift to subscriptions next year, understanding that it will be a burden to margins.
Is it fair to assume that we should be roughly in the same margin range, probably not at the high end next year, but the same margin range as this year? The last question on the ambition 2023, I didn't find any reiteration here in the presentation. When will you provide us with the new, likely longer-term, ambition? Thank you.
Yeah, thank you very much, Knut, for the 3 questions. I think the second and the third one, almost, you know, I'd like to answer in a combined way. Let me first comment on the recurring. I think it's good, like you noted to see that, you know, the part that is probably the most attractive one within the recurring category as we have defined it for many years, which is the subscription and the SaaS revenue, that is growing over proportionally and very nicely. We know why we do it for many reasons. It lands well with the customers. We see a greater level of demand there.
You know, it is a stickier part in the customer relationship and also allows us to position and price the product adequately. Many good reasons to drive that category with a clear focus on it, notwithstanding that there's other categories within there. Yes, why would we not see a slightly increasing overall portion of the recurring revenues from the total revenues? The area where I would like to draw your attention to the most is really the subscription and the SaaS, because that is where the management is really putting the greatest degree and level of focus on currently, given our conviction that this is making the most sense.
You've seen the numbers, and there's actually a nice delivery on the previously made promises when we got to know each other first. I'm just remembering last year, for example. On your margin question, as well as on the 2022, 2023 question. I think it'd be fair to say it's a bit too early, and we'll come out in the first quarter with a clear guidance as usual.
I think it's good practice here at the Nemetschek Group that, you know, with the full year 2021 results, we'd educate you and guide you more into what we would see for the coming years, not just right now already, but as we can say today, you may remember the last time we gave a multi-year guidance over a three-year period, I think it was in spring this year. To me, there's no reason to believe that this does no longer stand. We're completely committed, and we believe that this is definitely still achievable overall when it comes to the big picture and the key parameters.
Your specific question about the margin and the level of profitability next year compared to this year, I would say that again, that belongs into a category where we have to do the math still, and we wouldn't disclose our entire thinking at this point of time. I'd be surprised if the aspect from one of the previous questions that, you know, we would continue to invest into the business, and do things that we weren't able to do over the last 18 months, as well as the change to subscription, regardless when the timing will be, but there's gonna be a small impact, definitely. Altogether, those ones are going against us, but luckily, coming from a very high, attractive level.
Again, also, there is no reason to believe that, you know, our view would have changed completely. Please, give us the opportunity and respect that we would continue with a good practice coming out there in a few months from now.
Thank you, Axel.
Thank you.
The next question is from David Ligner, [inaudible]. Your line is now open.
Hello, Axel. two questions on my side. The first is, could you give us a bit of insight into the growth of Build and most particularly Bluebeam in the different regions, Europe and APAC helping in sustaining the high growth rate? The second question is the quarter-over-quarter growth pace of subscription revenue has been accelerating in the past 3 quarters. You've moved from 5% quarter-over-quarter growth in Q1 to 14% in Q3. Should we expect this to continue to accelerate next quarter and also in 2022? Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, and bon après-midi, David. Thank you very much for both of the questions. Let me start with Bluebeam. I think it's an excellent question to just highlight once again as I tried to answer in one of the earlier questions already, that the international growth does definitely contribute nicely to, you know, pay back some of the investments that we have made in the infrastructure. When we're talking international, and this is not only Scandinavia and traditionally the U.K., but also parts of Asia as well as then DACH. We look at the year to date, our growth in the U.S., and I think it's fair to say that the international growth was over proportionally contributing to the overall result. Very interesting that there's not a big difference altogether.
The region that I'd like to point out here is the DACH region. Just to give you one number with 25% growth, you know, and that is fantastic because that shows that we're now finally hitting a critical mass of, you know, a level where, you know, there's more noise created, more customers, you know, getting wind of it and that is to be continued overall. I wouldn't pin it down to just one individual regions of the ones that I mentioned. Overall, as part of your question, let me assure you that yes, there's gonna be a strong focus on both to defend and continue to grow the local home market as well as the internationalization, which currently is growing over proportionally.
The same I think is true for your second part of the question, which is the subscription and SaaS. Again, thanks for noting the, you know, achievements in the last, you know, two to three years. I think that all of you can really see that this has become a major focus topic. We do it in a phased approach. We do it in a segment-tailored approach. We don't want to afford neither for, you know, customers nor investors or shareholders, that, you know, drastic move because we don't think it would make sense given our business model, our geographic footprint for the customers. You may wanna start preparing all of the products to be ready.
You may wanna, you know, continue to explain to the customers the value, you know, in what they could do with a subscription over a perpetual. Try to position the product and its sub features in the right way and then go, you know, region by region, brand by brand, sometimes in a parallel, in a dual mode and have a strong focus on, you know, continue driving that. I think you've seen that in the numbers, and you will continue to see that in the numbers committed.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
The next question is from Nay Soe Naing. Berenberg, your line is now open.
Hi, Axel. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions and congrats on a solid quarter. If I could start off with a question on Bluebeam. Now that you've confirmed the transition to begin in 2022, I was wondering if you could share some insights into how we should think about the timeline of the overall transition, especially with regards to the impact we will see in the financials.
Yeah. Thank you very much. Again, also on the nice comment on the successful third quarter. We indeed are happy to see that, you know, the current product offering of Bluebeam is getting such a great feedback from the market. Obviously also a very booming and very good market environment. We are committed to, you know, start the transition again with the exact timing still to be nailed down. Probably more likely to happen in the second half when it comes to the financials as part of your question.
The overall transition, of course, any transition and the timeline looks a little bit different and we cannot precisely forecast and then dictate it because again, our customer-centric approach requires that we do that together with the customers and also for the customers. That's what we're currently exploring. I would say it's fair to say that the majority of that transition to be seen in the financials should be seen in a time period of 24 months. I think that overall is the timeframe that we have analyzed so far, given several parameters. Appreciating this is a complex transition and transformation if you want so.
Thank you very much. That's really helpful. Thank you. Got two more follow-up—well, two more questions if I may add. First one on the margins. You know, we've had a very strong performance in terms of EBITDA margin this year so far. I was wondering if we look back at a couple of quarters back, you know, we talked about how the margin improvements were helped by some of the delays and costs not coming back and some of the hirings that you hadn't been able to acquire as much as you would've liked to. So would you be able to quantify, you know, how much of the margin improvement is driven by these cost savings, and then how much of it is driven by the structural operational improvements?
Thank you very much. I guess we're talking about you know, today's situation and again, coming back to the earlier question going forward, I think that that remains yet to be seen. Clearly, we have estimated in previous discussions and calls the amount of the so-called unforced savings because we couldn't do the things that we wanted to do in a mid-single-digit million EUR magnitude roughly. There's probably another part of that in a similar magnitude that we could call what you called, I think, the operational improvements there.
We're intending to do more on the first section if we could, which it looks like we're able to bring people on board and we're able to go out there and be with the customers. That's I think an investment that we'll make for the sake of the future business. That's roughly how I would quantify it.
That's really helpful. Thanks. Last question. On the international expansions, as you mentioned about Bluebeam introduction into the European regions, any other brands that we should be aware of with regards to this expansion?
Well, yeah, thank you. I think it again reminds me of always thinking in both directions. I think there is a brand within the design, for example, area, and I just mentioned Graphisoft, for example, and we've recently combined the SDS/2 steel business with the ALLPLAN business has become a stronger player in also but not exclusively in the U.S. market. I think it goes both directions. The Bluebeam example is probably the largest one, you know, coming from the U.S. and seeing a great deal of potential outside the U.S. in other territories.
Again, the design brands are a good example, managed as well, where we see a more European-centric historical installed base of users that offers the opportunity to go out there, for example, to the North American market. We think of those ones, and we look at the numbers, and they're contributing nicely to that, equally as much the Bluebeam example landing well in Europe these days.
Perfect. That's really helpful. Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
The next question is from George Webb, Morgan Stanley. Your line is now open.
Afternoon. Hi, Axel. Hi, Stefanie. I have just a couple of follow-ups left. First, just coming back onto the kinda midterm targets to accelerate to mid-teens growth by 2023, I think you're indicating in that high single-digit growth for 2022. I guess a big element of both of those assumptions was predicated on Bluebeam transitioning in the second half of 2021, which is perhaps now, you know, too late to 2022. Do those targets, you know, just mechanically shift back slightly? Is that how we should be thinking about that at all? Then secondly, on media and entertainment, two parts. First, just given the very high rate of growth you've seen, what sort of growth are you expecting within your guidance for Q4, just for media and entertainment?
On the EBITDA margin, looks like it's in the high 30s% year to date and actually quite a lot of investments gone into there in the last few years, even if a big chunk of that was inorganic. Is that level of margin sustainable when you think about that 15%-20% growth ambition you have in the next few years? Thank you.
Thank you, George. It almost feels like you've given part of the answer to one of the questions yourself. Let me try to repeat this because I tend to agree with many things that you said. Although on the Bluebeam, let me start with this one maybe. The Bluebeam transition, yes, we postponed it because of the great level of feedback and the high pressure on the organization currently, so that we want really to take advantage and grab as much share as possible in the current core market, which is, for example, the U.S.
No, you'd be surprised, but I don't think at this point we can already say that our ambitions for 2022 and 2023 would have changed dramatically because we're seeing really a nice business overall. Yeah, maybe it makes it a little bit tougher, but the ambition is there and the ingredients I think are there. We're still committed to those ones, and we consider them you know definitely achievable and overall give us a bit more time to fine-tune this and come out again as a good practice in you know the course of the first quarter when we give the guidance for next year, but then also try to update as good as we can by then the midterm outlook.
That's rather a positive and trying to compensate maybe something that you indicate there. Similar on media. I think you know, the numbers that you were quantifying is to me rather to be seen on the higher end of that band. The 10-15 that you mentioned, you know, I'd like to see the unit producing a 15% growth, and I think it's doable given the explosion of the 3D really content and the lots of activities that we see in the multimedia space there currently. We're really well-positioned. I think we prepared this really well to become a significant player there.
That's overall my midterm kind of ambition. I think that is feasible. Again, too early to give precise guidance for the group for next year going forward or even one level further down on the divisional level. That would be my ad hoc reaction, right? On the fourth quarter, I think that will for this year continue to be an attractive level and conclude a super successful quarter.
By the way, not only in terms of financials, and I'm saying this not often enough because we haven't done this as a Nemetschek Group too often, because of also the lots of great work that the team did in terms of the integration, you know, the organization, the pricing, the solutions, the webstore, store, the channel consolidation. Everything was turned really from formerly three companies to become now one player. You see what the result could be, right? So that to me is not to be forgotten.
That's helpful. Thank you.
You're welcome.
So far, we have no further questions. I would like to turn back the conference over to you, speakers.
If there are no further questions, we will conclude the call. Thank you all for your participation. Talk to you soon, hopefully, and have a nice day. Thank you very much.
Thank you, everyone. Bye-bye.
Bye.
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your attendance. This conference has been concluded. You may disconnect.