Earnings Call: Q3 2020

Nov 12, 2020

Good morning, and welcome to the conference call of OHV. At our customers' request, this conference will be recorded. May I now hand over to Marco Fuchs. Yes. Thank you very much. Good morning. Good morning from Raymond here. Welcome to the nine months conference call for HBSD. Thank you for joining us too early. We moved the call a little bit earlier because today is a very heavy reporting season. And so the slot that we usually have at nine was apparently overbooked, so now we're the early birds. I hope you have been able to download our presentation and look at our nine months report so far. And as usual, I'd just like to walk you quickly through the slides. We're here together I'm here to call on the call from the first time with Kugmenschenko Stalking, and then we'll take questions and discuss the state of play at OHB and in the space in general. If you look at Slide two, you see our business areas. Has been introduced some months ago. Nothing has changed this time. It's the Space Systems division mainly, of course, which is in Bien Bremen and Munich. The whole area around two thousand employees. So it's, of course, by far the most important area. Aerospace, the new aerospace after creating the digital business area, Aerospace with BNP Aerospace, participation in the rocket factory, Augsburg and our minority share, which is not consolidated and not part of the numbers of AeroTech, which is equity in our numbers. And then, of course, our new area, digital, under the leadership of Wiltzberding with OHB Digital Connect as the main company, outside of the people there and here. What is important that our numbers in our numbers, we are still reporting identically in this year as we have previously done. So we have not changed the reporting yet. It will be changed early next year, but we reported three provisions. The current number from the old Space System perimeter and what used to be the Aerospace and Industrial Products perimeter is maintained for this reporting year. So there might be a little confusion. I'll jump into the news of the third quarter. Here, of course, we talked about it a lot. It's actually our cover story of the Q3 report in terms of photos. Contract was signed in September. Yes, I don't want to go through all the Gerhard story again. I think this is a very nice contract for us in many ways. It's a very cheap and efficient project with regards to scope and the ambition we have there. So it's a little bit moving already in a a new space direction, and we are very hopeful that we will be able to complete the program on time because we need to launch on October 24 in order to be punctual at the rendezvous point where we want to hopefully then measure the impact of the American DART double asteroid redirection test mission. And together, HERA and DART constitute the International Asteroid Impact Deflection Assessment Collaboration. That was very nice. On Slide four, of course, the Matagos is a big flagship program, the main order intake we're having this year. We signed in this quarter, July 31, BIG with a monitoring mission contract at a value of EUR $445,000,000 plus an option for additional EUR 130,000,000, which, of course, we hope that eventually will come for a third spacecraft. That is the backbone of the European CO2O, CO2 monitoring network. So I think it's my view, my personal view is the most important companion commission in terms of day to day relevance for the people in Europe. However, obviously, there are other company commissions and two others, OHP System and OHP City, one payload responsibility. The contracts have been negotiated. Chime, we call it the Medical Spectral Imaging Mission for the environment. I think we are hoping it's for the environment, but it's nice that it says Medical Spectral Imaging Mission for the environment. Approximately EUR $255,000,000 to be signed very soon, actually in the next days, actually I think tomorrow if some document is taken. Today? Actually today or tomorrow. And CIMLER, which is the acronym for Copernicus Imaging Microwave Radiometer, from which we Italy is payload approximately EUR 178,000,000 contract volume to be signed later this month. If we look at Slide five, we're on a very good way to deliver on our order intake target of €900,000,000 because we have another mission in this context. It's technically not part of the Pernikos, but it's with the so called Arctic weather satellite of our OHP Sweden subsidiary. A proposal has been negotiated and early next year, there will be another contract. And then if I just quickly add it up from a 55,000,000 in terms of price, this adds up to €700,000,000 €8,000,000 Yes, it will be more than €900,000,000 because the small Arctic weather satellite division is SEK 32,000,000, so we're ramping it up with SEK $9.20 ish or another 10 next week. Good. 110 exactly. Very good. So that's very important. Of course, it is the cornerstone of our order intake. And we believe also in terms of the topical or the activity in itself, it is very important for the future because the Copernicus and hopefully also the Arctic weather will be not just those development satellites, but especially for the Arctic weather that we are working on and we're hopeful that this might result in a constellation of more satellites. Good. Quick update on Slide six from Space Systems. We had a launch this quarter as well. Our E sale Luxembourg satellite was successfully launched on September 3 on Vega. There were a couple of delays with regard to COVID because Gurus was shut down and then there were strong high winds, but eventually, the satellite was successfully launched. It is working very well. The first phase of the in all the operation has been successfully completed and now we can transfer to the commercial operator, Exact Earth, who then will do ship monitoring services. So we're very happy with that. Then another mission we signed just recently, just last week, which is a or Phase one study for COMET and receptor, which technically resembles the platform quite a lot with the Hera platform. So we are hopeful that we are selected then for the final implementation phase. And that would be a nice contract for our Milan operation. And in terms of progress on ongoing projects, we had the completion of the instrument test phase, instrument test campaign for our nMAP satellite in Ottumon at ERBG. You see the photo here. The photo that you can see here is the noise test. So it's, the course, the vibration and the whole environmental testing plan testing the instrument first. So, hope that is approaching completion. Moving on to the Aerospace division. Of course, business is not as good as in Space Systems. There, it's well known that the reduced production in the Arianne sector excluding the whole European launcher industry in a difficult time. And the aerospace, of course, is also strongly affected. The launch the initial launch, the first launch of Arianne six has recently been postponed to the second quarter of twenty twenty two, which, of course, means that also the following launches are delayed. And that, of course, means that the production of components from the supply chain of Arahan encountered delays, and that also hits our MPIO space facility. It is accounted, however, good news on that. ESA Council decided recently late October, October 29, that member states from ESA will be requested to support IAN six program with additional DKK $230,000,000 in order to compensate extra development costs that have been incurred. There are obviously an IAN6 delays in the development. There are obviously impacts from the corona situation, but of course also the market launches is complex and is more competitive than it was when IANA six was initiated in 2014. So there is a strategic challenge for Europe to look again to the business model, how to secure autonomous European access space. Can you hear me well? There was a noise in the line. We'll just continue. Page eight, also from the Aerospace division, our start up company, Rocket Factory. When I say our, it's not ours. We, together with the management team, initiated it. We're significant shareholder there, but it's not consolidated and we have no intention to consolidate it. It's going well. We are we made agreements with Spaceport operators. I think to be specific, we made an agreement with Andorja Space in Norway for flying there. That was signed in September. We're also negotiating with KES for launch site implementation in French Guiana in Peru. It's to have two launch opportunities. And if you look at the photo, it looks a little bit humble there. That's the test side that our partners Sweden from Swedish Space Corporation have done across at the S Range facility. And the blue thing is our what you can see there, the blue thing is our test stand engine test for the first hot fire test the A1 stage combustion main engine. That is under preparation. It will start hopefully late this year or maybe in the upcoming year. So, of course, a market is very much depending on an engine and the engine technology, especially this self developed RFI stage combustion main engine is very clear to us and is very important for us, and we are following closely that test campaign. Moving on to Page nine, digital. The new business area, I talked about it quickly, had also contract recently. So just very a few days ago, OHP Digital Connect received a contract from the German Federal Office for Equipment Information Technology and Utilization, which is translated, let's call it in German, the German forces, for the regeneration and the refurbishment of mobile ground stations for the cellular communication systems, like the one that is in operation. So since many years, there's a system in operation and the refurbishment of the ground the mobile ground stations will now be done by our OHP. That was the competitive process. We were able to win it. So this is very good for us. It's a very important work for our team, a specific team doing that at OHB Digital that used to be previously used to be part of OHB Digital, but has been transferred over to OHB Digital some time ago. Page 10, order intake. You know this chart, we're filling in the numbers here. So, we talked about CO2M. We talked about Ferreira. We talked about the upcoming Copernicus Chime and Schimbra emissions. Of course, what is going on and completely open is the Galileo second generation competition that is under evaluation now. To our knowledge, there are three proposals being evaluated and one of those three proposals is from OHP. And it's our expectation that two out of these three proposals will be selected to build the next generation of Galileo. And of course, we are not aware, but we are as you can see when you're in a competition, are anxious to follow this. The other activities I'm listing here is a combination of a couple of smaller contracts around the Ayaan, a bit of the Lunar Gateway is being implemented and a couple of other things which we named together from institutional and commercial customers. So we are quite optimistic. And on Page 11, you see that our backlog has already been up again from where we were before. So we are again above €2,000,000,000 which is good. And we still believe, as you saw on Page 10, we still believe there's something coming in. Good. So now let's move to the numbers. The overview on Page 12. Quarter intake I just mentioned is basically at the same level as it was last year. Total revenues is down from $659,000,000 last year at this point to 600 Obviously, the reason has to do with some slowdown, some delays in the supply chain around corona impact that we are all living through in the last eight months. That had a very modest effect on the EBITDA, which is at 55,500,000 compared to the 57,900,000.0 that we had last year. EBIT is €30,000,000 EBITDA, you see, is down by €26 to €24,000,000 And this all ends up at a net profit or an earnings per share of 26. And I will come into more detail, but it's not a secret that the Space Systems area performed well, whereas the Aerospace division performed poorly. This is, I guess, very much expected. We can talk about the details. And I think, yes, this is the reality of the situation we have. Compared to the headcount we had compared to last year, it's about 100 people more. We're now at 3,006. So steady growth overall, 3% over the year. If we move on to Page 13, You see those numbers again at the charts compared to the previous three years. The total revenue was 600,000,000 is basically falling back to where we were in between what we were in 2017 and 2018 at this time of the year. So you see an impact on the top line. If we look at the profitability EBITDA, you see the same. Basically, we're falling back to the range where we were at our numbers of 2017. But now Slide 14, that's the best slide of today in terms of the numbers. Clearly, Space Systems had a slight decrease in total revenues back to $493,000,000 But if you look at the profitability here, it's quite impressive. The EBITDA of the Space Systems division of 52,700,000.0 shows steady growth. It's more than double compared to where we were at 2017. Also EBIT was €34,000,000 is a growth and an impressive improvement. But also just to be quite frank, I had to do also with corona because the content, the supply chain part the percentage is lower. And so the own value creation de facto is higher. But also the margin on own value added, which we compare also over the years, has in itself also performed well. So the EBIT margin of 6.9% is a good improvement. Again, it has some special extra effects in this. But of course, clearly, the performance of Space Systems so far this year is very good, and we're happy with that. Moving on to Slide 15, Aerospace performance. Again, this Aerospace performance is the identical parameter of what used to be Aerospace and Industrial Products in this year before we changed the numbers according to the three divisions. I'm repeating myself here, I know. But since it's also called Aerospace, I just want to be very clear. Yes, you see the top line goes down with EUR 110,000,000, a slight decrease, and it's even obviously much worse in terms of EBITDA and especially EBIT. So we lost 3,700,000,000 on EBIT level. That has to do with weak performance of the aerospace. It also has to do with the weak performance in this particular time frame of our mine operations that is discounted here. That was also weak. But obviously, the megatrend here is that our launch activity or our Jan activity is going through a difficult time of transition from ION five to ION six, which is obviously delays for a supplier like MT, a very difficult situation. Okay. Now moving on to Slide 16, the guidance. You recall that during our Capital Markets Day on February 13, we issued the guidance as follows. The top line, total revenues, we expect it to be at EUR 1,100,000,000.0, and we expected EBITDA at €80,000,000 and EBIT at €44,000,000 With regard to total revenues, we now no longer assume that the guidance can achieve just total revenues towards Avianfix and delays in the supply chain caused by COVID-nineteen, as I mentioned. Revenues, we expect now to be slightly below EUR 1,000,000,000. However, above mentioned influences, especially COVID, will only have a minor total effect on EBITDA and EBIT. So, it's not clear for us now to see the extent to which and if at all the actual results at the end of the year will deviate from our plans from February because you see that, for example, the profitability of first wave system is going well, even better than expected. And for this reason, today, we can still neither confirm nor withdraw the guidance that we issued for EBITDA in Brazil. That is still uncertain. It sounds strange that in mid November, we don't know exactly when we come out there. But what we feel is that there will be no there will be no strong effect. And if at all, there will be a minor total effect on key earnings versus our current expectation. I'm sure we'll have time to discuss it. I'm sure Kurt is eager to explain more details on this slide. Yes. Looking to the balance sheet. Well, no major changes there compared to last year. We had the normal increase of inventories that we had during the year. Inventories tend to be lower at the event, and we still expect that. We had on the asset side, Page 17, we had a significant increase actually in cash for this time of the year with more than EUR 100,000,000, but that has also to do with cash flow during corona side. And also less cash outflow because of supply chain numbers being lower than expected. If you look at the equity side, equity and liquidity side of the balance sheet, HK18, we see that equity was up by 16,000,000 or €17,000,000 That obviously has to do with the fact that we did not pay a dividend this year. And obviously, we have been profitable, so this has increased. Tensions are slightly decreasing over time. This is normal because the pension system has been closed many years ago, and it's basically growing out of provisions. Provisions, yes, exactly. The pension provisions are slightly decreasing. This is only the pension system only concerns or mainly concerns far mainly concerns MTS Bank. So the balance sheet to year end, the typical changes that we have over the year. Maybe I want to look at the following slides a little bit closer, the financial ratios. Free cash flow after nine months 2019 was minus 124,000,000 and now after nine months 2020, it's minus 47,000,000 So we had a better free cash flow compared to previous year at this time. Net debt is also lower with 194,000,000 instead of $247,000,000 The net debt excluding pensions as well, obviously. So in that respect, in terms of cash flow, we have worked quite well this year. OpEx overall is slightly lower than last year, but it's significantly lower, even just half of own work capitalized. So own work capitalized last year at this time was EUR 10,000,000 for the group and this year, it's only EUR 5,000,000. I see this year as a good number because we had significant own work capitalized in the past, and we are having a phase where this is significantly lower than also significantly lower than the amortization of this. So we have a period where we are looking at the chart on '20, you see the what I just mentioned, the net debt situation being at €194,000,000 compared to the $247,000,000 as of last year. And you see also that we had a slight decrease of that compared to last quarter. We had net debt excluding pensions of €8,000,000 also at a lower level. Going back going on to Page 21, exactly what I said, the main message here is that CapEx overall is at the same level. It's very heavily IT related, the CapEx this year, no concrete and buildings that used to be big a couple of years ago in Augsburg. But now it's very strongly leaning towards IT and software. But the good message, as I mentioned, is the own work capitalized is just at half of where it used to be from the previous year. Page 22, the free cash flow. Yes, I've mentioned that before compared to last year quite good. Looking at the full year, the cash flow has been positive in the last four financial years. So of course, it's hard to predict, especially this year. But I think we're quite happy with that. On a capital employed, pretty much on the same level as it was before. Good. I'm closing my few slides with a look at the shareholders' number two, which is unchanged. In this period, the management board is unchanged as well. Same on the basis you see on the photo and on the financial calendar. On the last slide, you see that all these upcoming events, iCapital Forum and the conferences will all be virtual. We'll participate a lot, but it will be virtual. We hope that our Capital Market Day on February 11 will not be virtual, actually. We have not actually decided, but the current plan still is to do it. We have not fully decided where to do it. My feeling is that it will probably be in payment more likely than not because this is in a hopefully slowing down the corona time, probably the only location where we can do it in person, hopefully, so we cannot travel abroad or anywhere. Or Lymitar is nodding her head, so she wants to make it in Bremen. I think it would be nice maybe to do it in the new Plato facility, and we can look at the MTG satellites there, which would be very nice. But just maybe we should communicate this idea that it should be in payment and it should be probably in the Plato facility. I guess that's good. Everybody is nodding here. So this is an ad hoc proposal. And of course, we welcome you to come here to look at that because you can see now and then in February, very significant mid year, but the generation success from there. Quite impressive. Yes, the rest for next year has already been scheduled. No surprises there. Obviously, we hope that the next analyst conferences then will be in person also. And I'll leave it at this point. And of course, invite you all now after exactly thirty minutes of monologue, I invite you all to ask questions. Thank you from my side, and please start the Q and A session. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. Please press 1 on your touchtone telephone. The operator will announce your name when it's your turn to ask a question. In case you wish to cancel your question, please press 2. We still have people online. Can you see that? We have no questioners. One moment please. We ask Okay. For the first one, Mr. Richard Schramm from HSBC. May we have your question, please? Yes. Good morning, everybody. I have, of course, returned to the part of the first, as you already mentioned, but it's quite curious that on one hand, you say you will see only a limited impact on the earnings side despite clearly lower total revenue. But on the other side, you cannot specify this of at least a certain range. So why is that? But it would be interesting to hear. Yes. I mean, I guess, Krupp will answer that. I mean, one of the major things that is pending is what we announced or requested with the ASA Council with regard to Arianne's support. That comes in December. It's very different than if it doesn't come in. So this is one major effect. And it's not in our control. We hope and expect that there might be in December the confirmation of this €230,000,000 that was requested. That would have a significant impact also on the Aerospace. That's the one single thing that we cannot really predict. And we debated that, and I'll leave the details to put. But obviously, the message should not be that we don't know, but the message is that we don't confirm and don't change. Yes. And the next answer is what the question of Ariana issue And there are also some other uncertainties. One uncertainty is, obviously, the COVID-nineteen crisis. Since there are some productivity impacts we have in some and also in OHB and Brent, there are some productivity impact. And nobody knows actually how does it what's going happen in the next six weeks until year end and what the effect this may have. But as also already mentioned, we do not believe there are major changes. We do not believe that we have major deviations from the predicted figure, but we know pretty well now in the meantime that the total revenues, they cannot achieve this €1,100,000,000 and people have at year's end a figure below €1,000,000,000 at the end of our forecast. That's the effect of less subcontractors. Yes. It doesn't mean that we do less, but it really means we receive less invoices from subcontractors. One answer is a major point. Major point is if you see the details, see the decrease of material costs in this nine months compared to previous year, €45,000,000 And the other point is that the total revenue figure in the is lower than expected. Okay. I can follow that this lower sub supplies are good for your margins. So the lower volume estimate is then compensated by the higher loan value added and resulting better margin. But what has Ariana support of €230,000,000 to do with your results? So I get this because if this does not come, you might have to think about some restructuring here, which could bite into your earnings, for example? We do restructuring anyway. What it really just makes the difference is if it comes, then it is confirmed that extra effort will be paid. And if it doesn't come or if it is delayed, then of course, there would be a gap. So currently, we have a conservative management judgment on that. And if it is confirmed, it's positive. And if it is very negative, if it's below our management expectation, it's even having a negative impact. So we are making an assumption that there will be some money coming. And again, if compared to that, if it's more, it's good. If it's less, it's bad. And it could be both, actually. So if it's all, you mean more than the €23,000,000 requested? Is the No, amount this breaks down. This does not come to us. This is $230,000,000 for the whole industry. And out of this number, we have an expectation. And we need certain share out of the $230,000,000 we need. And again, if it would be below our needs, it would have a negative impact. And if it would meet our needs, it would be very good. But we made a careful evaluation of this question, but we did make a management judgment that we do expect some of those monies to come. So if it did come, it would be negative. If the full amount comes, it would be okay, but there's an uncertainty around this outcome. We are optimistic, but there is an uncertainty. Okay. Understood. And just can you give an indication of what special costs, obviously, are in the results for MG Aerospace and the restructuring going on there? As you mentioned that there is some assumptions implemented over the last couple of months, obviously. Yes. I'm not completely sure about the number, but it's a couple of millions. Yes, a couple of millions. It's a lower million number, yes, that is in there, yes. So somewhere in the digit area, 5,000,000 plusminus? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Nicolas Mauder from Schiffgrohe, may we have your question please? Morning. Gentlemen, a question regarding your reporting structure going into 2021, please. Have you already decided whether you will report 2019 fully in the old structure? Or will you do a hybrid newold? And what kind of indication you can give us for the quarters to come? So do you have full comparability going into the April 2021 that you can provide us with at least on some KPIs? Thank you. Our intention we have is that we will report 2020 still in this way as we do it, have done it for the nine months now. We did not change it at year's end, but we will start in the first quarter with a new segment, digital. And we'll then give up the comparable figures that you can evaluate this in a proper way. Thank you. Rizkar from Pareto Securities. May we have your question, please? Yes. Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I have two questions. First on Ariana. And if we look into 2021, it seems that also next year will be very, very difficult. And even after the first slide, it was expected to be in 2022. It's very unclear how Arianes six will able to compete in the new space long term market. Do you think or would you start to consider strategic review of this business? I can confirm that it's unclear. Of course, it's unclear. But I have to explain that this is normal if you have a transition from an old product to a new product. So if I recall, it was from Ariane four to Ariane five. It was very similar. That's twenty five years ago. So it's not surprising that an industry that has one monolithic big product, if that changes every twenty five years, there is an uncertainty in between. So that is expected and it's part of the normal business that everybody has where the launcher that is retired and the new launcher is coming up. However, you mentioned that, of course, the market has also changed. It's true that ION five was very successful in a market where there was no competition from The United States at that point in time. And there was some competition or there was competition, we tend to forget, from the Russian operators at that point in time. So the market has changed from a competitive market, Europe, Russia, to a competitive market, America, rest of the world. And of course, now the American launch providers are very, very strong, and they are currently dominating the market, especially ASICs as the current market leader. So this will be answered this will have will create uncertainty for Varian VI future. There's no question about it. But however, having said that the European commitment to an independent access to space, strategic access to space is very strong. This is supported, of course, by France, by Germany, by Italy and by other countries. So it's clear that IRON six will be completed. It's clear that IRON six will be the workhorse for the institutional emissions of Europe in the next years to come, whatever. For the next decade, it's clear that ION6 will be doing that. However, this is obviously a smaller institutional institutional market. And so the real uncertainty around ION6 is if and to what extent ION6 will be capable of also winning commercial launches. This is uncertain at the current time, of course, because the market is uncertain. In terms of what you're asking, our split what it means for us, of course, we think what we do with empty aerospace. Of course, the current situation is not good. We hope that the business recovers. We work very hard on the cost structure there. We reduce headcount. We reduce size and capacity. We invested in a start up like RSI to be in the launch segment of a different angle. But of course, it is obvious over the last year that for OHB, the relevance of larger has been decreasing because the satellite business by system was growing over the years, and the proportion has basically changed significantly. If you would go back in ten years, the proportion between satellite and rocket was very, very different. So we are now, of course, dominated by the satellite business, and this is very nice. This is very good. And also the creation of digital as a known business area is an answer, is a strategic answer also to the changes that we want to be downstream, want to be in operation, we want to be in services and solutions because we feel that is growing with market potential. Launcher as a component supplier in the traditional way as we did it in Ariane five will be a very minor activity, unfortunately, because the chipset of the Ariane six thrust comes to something around, let's call it, 7,000,000, maybe €8,000,000 in that range. If you just manufacture 5,000,000 you can say it's five a year, you're basically in the range of €40,000,000,000 production revenue. And this is for a company around DKK 1,000,000,000. It's much, much, much smaller. And again, ten years ago, the contribution of IAS five was to the overall OHP Group. So yes, we have drawn strategic conclusions there. Okay. Very clear. Thanks. And finally, just a short question. Maybe I missed it. What was your order intake after nine months? Order intake after nine months. Order intake after nine months, all right. Obviously, it's not in our system, it's in our documentation. But one second, please. I mean, if you basically net it out from first year to last year and then expect the revenue. Can I make the order? Yes, close to 800. Close to 800. Okay. If you add then what we signed very soon, which is China three fifty five, Germany 178, Arctic weather, one more large governmental contact with the German government, which is a final negotiation and so on. Then you can practically say that now we are already certain that we will be significantly above 105,000,000,000 Okay. That's very clear. So it's still your target and you will achieve that in 2020? Yes. Okay. Perfect. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much. Are there further questions? Further questions, please feel free. What wants to explain is now that more detail. Wilk wants to explain the order book in more detail. I'd like to talk about launch. Okay. Sorry, we do not have any further questions. I had sorry for the delay. No problem. Now, of course, if there are no further questions, I think just it says something about the quality of the already asked questions. So they were comprehensive. And again, I think, obviously, we are around and should there be more detailed questions, please ask Martina or Kurt or myself. From our side, we would like to thank you and obviously for your interest and support of OHP. And as I said earlier, we hope that we all meet again in person on February 11 here in Bremen. And in the meantime, I can just wish you, of course, good health. This is the most important one. And I can wish us all that we complete this year in successful way. It will be a couple of difficult weeks between now and Christmas break, and it will be a very different Christmas break, I believe, for many of us, no Christmas parties. But still, guess, we have to cope with this. And I can only say for OHP, we are coping quite well with the situation. I'm very proud of the whole team of our people here. Our partners, our customers are supporting us very well. So for me, it's a good chance to say thank you to you and to everybody around OHP, all the stakeholders. And I wish you a good day. And let's follow the reporting season and see what comes out of Q3 from the rest of the market. So thank you very much here from Pehmann, and let's stay in touch. Bye bye. Thank you. We want to thank all the participants for this conference. Thank you very much, and goodbye.