Earnings Call: Q1 2020

May 12, 2020

Good morning, and welcome to the conference call of OHA BSA. At our customers' request, this conference will be recorded. May I now hand you over to Mr. Marco Fox. Good morning. Thank you very much. Good morning to OHP's first quarter three month results 2020 call. I hope you have all been able to download the documents that have been put on the system this morning. So we published our three months results. Our Q1 report has been published. And as always, I'd like to walk you quickly through the slides and then, of course we have time for Q and A. Of course, it's a special time for Q1 call now after two months of corona impacts. But I guess what you see in our numbers and in our documents is that for us the first quarter has been reasonably normal. And so I start on Page two with the recent developments from the operational side. We have two additions to the management Board of OHV the system. Kjarapdetas already started early January and Udi Schaib was appointed member of the first tranche of MPI Aerospace. Maybe I could also introduce my colleagues here as well, but I'm immediately into the slides because I'm here together with Lekka Peking, Luks Baerping and our colleagues from the financial department Martina Lilienthal is here as well. Operational progress has been quite successfully and significantly with regards to a number of design reviews that have been completed. Even in home office mode, have been able or as they call it in Italy, they don't call it home office, maybe they call it start working. In Italy, we closed the critical design review for the ground segment. Of now, We had very successful progress in the system critical design review for the Heineken mission and the preliminary design review of Plato. And the launch earlier took place of the Solar Orbiter, where OHV Italy was on the payload side with the latest payload and OHV Sweden was involved with the propulsion system and the control system. So pretty normal work in OHV. But going on to page three, we see that we do have also of course impact from the COVID-nineteen crisis. Space industry has been relatively crisis resistant because the demand for space products is still sound of course driven by the usefulness of space products. Long term nature of our order intake of our projects is a plus in a situation like that. And of course, certain risks do exist in our industry. We have a delay of order intake because of potentially decision making delays due to the slowdown in the decision making process at some customer organizations. And we do have also some impact from restrictions, for example, the Galileo test center in Nordrheik was shut down, so we lost time there. So there's a lot of uncertainty in the whole world these days. Of course, it's the same for us. And to the high degree of uncertainty, we decided we proposed as the Verstadt, the Supervisory Board and jointly we will propose we did propose to the annual meeting that there will be no dividend paid for the year 2019. Our annual meeting will take place on May 26 as it was always planned to be. It will be a virtual meeting. So this will be a new experience for all of us. But of course, many companies have this year virtual meetings, and it will be the first time that people will be there and no difference will be proposed and very likely will be adopted. If you go to Page four, another key point obviously is the impact of the COVID-nineteen pandemic situation with regard to our guidance. During our Capital Markets Day on February 13, we issued the guidance for this year of €1,100,000,000 total revenue and we are forecasting for $20.20 euros 80,000,000 in EBITDA and €44,000,000 in EBIT. At present, it is not yet possible to see if the actual results at the end of this year will or will not deviate from our plans that we explained in February. For this reason, we cannot confirm nor withdraw the guidance. So it's not that we say we will be off. It's not that we say we will be weaker. Just at this point because of the uncertainty that is around the whole economy, but also especially the time lines, as I explained earlier. We are making the reservation that the guidance cannot be confirmed nor withdrawn for the time being. I will have time to discuss that later in the Q and A session. If I go on on Page five, we see the quick overview. Backlog has increased to DKK1.7 billion. That obviously is the regular cost of business in the first three months. We still expect and we are still very hopeful of very significant order intake coming this year. We'll discuss with Linda. Lutz can give you an update on that point. Revenues are down. Q1 revenues are down to 184,000,000 that's minus 4%. EBITDA almost at the same level and then FX and EBT lower than before. So it all ends in an earnings per share of €0.36 this first quarter instead of the EUR0.42 that we had last year. So it's a soft first quarter. Of course, it has to do with the slowdown that we saw also in March. Compared to last year, the headcount has increased. It's yes, it's almost 200 people more or it's actually 173 people more. So the company was significantly growing during the last four quarters. But that is not I think not a surprise. Even from last year's end, December 31, where we were at 2,930 or 33, I guess, we still had 37 more in the first quarter. So the Q1 increase was also still good. I move on to the next page, six, group results compared to the last four years. And you see that total revenues over the last five years including Q1 twenty twenty from 2016, 2017, 2018, '19 onwards is a steady increase and a little bit of slowing down. Now in this year EBITDA is pretty much on the same level as it was in 2019, EBIT a bit softer with 11.1%, but still the second largest EBIT that we historically had in Q1. Strong results from Space Systems on Page seven, you see that Specialty profitability is very strong, EBITDA was 17.2%, is a record Q1 result we ever had in our history. Also EBIT the same with 10.8%. The EBIT margin on own value added, if we take out the subcontractor fully pass through, the 12.6% strong result. Moving on to the next Slide eight, weak results in Aerospace and Industrial Products, weak total revenue and even weaker profitability with EBITDA at 2.20.4% respectively in EBIT. So that's weak. Of course, it has to do with the weak business around Navian. That's not new. Also, other small entities in this domain, the more industrial oriented entities had a weak first quarter. So overall, this is a weak spot of our group. Unfortunately, I don't see this to improve very fast this year because ION business we see still for the whole year to be very weak. And the industrial activities, the small telematic tracking and tracing activities, also have a weak year. So this will be not a strong year for Aerospace and Industrial Products. Cash flow, Page nine, pretty much the same as last year. So the minus €50,000,000 is really by accident, this chart looks very much the same as the last year. So we had a €50,000,000 operating net outflow investment also at around €3,000,000 What is a big difference is that the had a stronger net inflow from financing because in March when the COVID crisis came, we decided to stock up our cash reserves at our accounts. This resulted in a more significant increase in cash. So you see that the financing activities, you see the €20,000,000 €21,000,000 more. And obviously, you see that the bottom line that the liquid funds at the March have been significantly higher with €116,500,000 compared to €60,000,000 last year. That is a lot of precaution. That is a lot of unpredictability. And of course, the reaction with us was put ourselves on the safe side and have a strong cash reserve at the company. If we're moving through the balance sheet, Page 10 on the asset side. Yes, I guess the biggest change here is the cash actually, which is good. So the fact that the balance sheet got longer by 35,000,000 is basically cash driven. As you can see, everything else is pretty much the same as it was on December. And that's a good sign. On the shareholders' equity and liquidity side, no surprise that the biggest change there is current financial abilities that was also the stock up of cash, but no significant change in the balance sheet. If we go on to Page 12, a couple of selected financial ratios. Free cash flow similar than it was last year. Net debt slightly up from the year end 2019 with 192,000,000 I'll answer that in an overview. CapEx is at the same level, low very low with €4,000,000 compared to €3,000,000 last year. Own work capitalized is even lower. I mean, it was €1,000,000 basically not there were no significant homework capitalized in Q1 twenty twenty. Return on capital employed is a bit lower than last year. But if we compare that in a few slides with the historic chart, the two of them is pretty much a number that is very much normal for us. On page 13, the development of net debt ratio. You see that over the last year from 2015 onwards the net debt which is including the pension provisions that we have on our balance sheet mainly for our empty aerospace has decreased from 174 in 2015 down to 135 at year end 2019. You see more significant if you take the light blue and the net debt without pensions over the last years because of the constant positive cash flow that we had over the last five years went down from 81% to 27%. Currently at Q1, at three months, it's up again, but at the regular cost. So overall, we see that the OHP Group has been able to generate significant free cash flow over the last years. And you can see that on Page 14, where you see that around €100,000,000 free cash flow was generated from 2015, 2016, 2018, '19. And we see for the cash flow this year, even though all the unpredictability we see is solid cash flow here this year, and I'm sure Kurt will go into detail on that. Also on Slide 14, you see the return on capital. On Slide 12, I said that's pretty much a regular number we had also over the past year. So in that respect, it's business as usual. On Slide 15, what is not as in the past years is the investment spending. So you see the CapEx has been pretty high over the last five years mainly driven or not mainly, but significantly driven by the investments in Aerospace, the Ariane six facility and significantly driven in OHB system investment in upgrades of clean rooms here in Micuba and Tesla and a lot of investments also in the overall IT domain. Below this year so far, We will probably be significantly below last year's average. And especially that is the case for the own work capitalized. We had a high point in the own work capitalized in 2016 with €929,000,000 And you see that reduced over the past years down to CHF10 million in 2019. And this year, we will be significantly below this 2019 number. Maybe the case because our massive effort in own work developed around large satellites, geostationary platforms have been completed. That's the biggest part that you see here that has been successfully completed. And we have still some investments going on, but not in such a massive time. So it's now it comes the years are coming where we have an investment honeymoon with regard to our own satellite development. Yes, the next slide has not changed at all. Shareholder structure unchanged since a long time. The analyst rating has been updated recently. Still a mixture between buy and to hold. I have changed on Slide 18, significant change in the average daily trading, massive increase. Q1 was 22,000, almost 23,000 average daily trading significantly higher than last year. But I have to say last year was also very low with 4,000. So we're coming into territory where we should be. So overall, I think the stock did reasonably well compared to others in the crisis months. And yes, hence, the quick run through. As I told you before, Slide 19, you see that the annual meeting will be a virtual meeting. And the next quarterly report will be in August, August 11 half year report. With regard to Investor Relations activity, investment in the community, of course, it's bit uncertain this year. Lot of conferences have been canceled. We're not really aware. I mean, it's hard to predict how this will end the year. So this was my quick overview. And now I would like to open the Q and A session for you. So please feel free to ask questions. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We will now begin the question and answer session. First question is Alexander Hallstein. May we have your question please? Hello. Alexander Hallstein from C. S. Bank. I've got four questions. Maybe we can offer it one by one. First of all, could you please provide some more details about where the differences between March and April, May, Q2 are in terms of production size and utilization as well as other COVID-nineteen related issues in order to allow us to get a better assessment of the Q2 profitability by segment? Kod, maybe this is a question for you. The second quarter is that there will be still an ongoing movement of milestones in our supply chain for to a later date. So this may lead in the second quarter to a comparable low total revenues. And on the other hand, we see no major impact on the profitability in Q2. You see in the first quarter already that in the Space Systems segment, the total revenues are a little bit lower compared to last year, but on the other hand, the profitability is good. Usually, we have each year in Q2 some profitability comparable weakness compared to Q1 due to the fact that the working days in Q2 is lower compared to Q1. But on the other hand, we've seen our first indications of the from the month April that the total number of productive hours is still an acceptable good level due to the fact that in principle our productivity figures are good concerning also the figures concerning like illness, like unproductive hours are still in a good shape and it is on a good level. So at the end of the day, in summary, I expect for Q2 comparable lower total revenues with a shift from these revenues to Q3 and Q4 and Q1 next year most likely. On the other hand, no major impact on profitability coming from or resulting from COVID-nineteen. Okay. Thank you. And the next question would be, could you please speak a bit about the potential deferrals or even cancellations, which you already mentioned. Are the orders or projects that you have the biggest risk here? So we don't have really the risk of cancellations, but Luca will walk you a little bit through the impact on order intake. Actually, first of all, good morning. Actually in terms of cancellation, I wouldn't see the slightest risk. We don't have any indication that customers will cancel existing orders. So and I haven't heard Markus saying this honestly, so there might be a misunderstanding. In terms of order intake, I would say for most of it, it's nominal and then there are a few risk and opportunities. So what is nominal? In particular, all the ESA business. So the results of the Ministerial Conference twenty nineteen, which were very favorable for us and for the whole space industry has not been challenged. All countries are sticking to their commitments. And the European trade agency is actually doing pretty well in progressing on the evaluation of the different offers which have been placed already. So the first big things to come will be on the one hand the so called gateway which is the new space station which will actually orbit around the moon. And here we don't have order intake yet, but the proposal in which we have been involved has already been selected internally. So we expect the order intake to come. The next one then is Copernicus. Copernicus is running nominal. It was foreseen that the ESA internal Board taking the positions on Copernicus missions shall happen on June 30. I had a call with the Transport Director of ISA last Friday and he confirmed June 30 to pay off contract with aviation of these contracts. Here our Astrid deflection mission, the offer from us is due this week Friday and we expect this to happen which means we will submit it and we expect by early We have a sole bidder, so normally for early Q3 we should have and then to clear. On the Hesa business, honestly, I don't see any negative impact. If we leave ESA and we go to EU, the one thing which might slip timely a bit is GTS Galileo transition satellites. This might create even an opportunity for us. ESA slips there, then to keep the overall Galileo system operational, they would need to have a gap filler and even a larger potentially larger gap filler than 14 up to now, which means we expect that there might be additional order for Galileo Betz three satellites. This order naturally would come to us because if you want to go for a gap filler then you can just order more of the same. If they would go somebody else then development efforts will start and the effect of being a gap filler to keep the operational capability of the constellation would be gone. So a slippage of GTS would not degrade our chances for the next generation GTS, Galileo transition satellites, but if it slips it might create an opportunity even for the Kepler. No impact expected at this point in time on Supernicus which I mentioned already which is a joint program by ESADU. But at this phase the decision and the funding is fully coming from ESA so no impact expected there. National orders, compared to our plan, we do not expect any negative news. We might even see and yes, I can't go into any detail. We might even see good news in Q3, but I'm thinking not allowed to disclose any detail here. So here again I would say a slight upside. The one thing where I would see a slight downside or slight risk is on commercial business, commercial business for telecom, but actually in our order intake planning commercial telecom was literally nothing. And commercial authentic for oil and gas, Here, I mean with the current economic development and with the oil price which we see at the moment financing for oil companies is more difficult. We have one project in that area. And actually to my surprise, the financing commitments which I have seen up to now and very recently are good. But this one I believe wants the ink on the paper. So it's the one and only the one single project where I would see a bit of risk. While on the other hand I see opportunities as well as I said. So overall, with a quite a balanced picture, I don't see any overall negative significant impact. We might see something slipping from twenty twenty to 2021, but this is a bit unforeseeable. It depends a bit on how this corona thing goes on. There's a second wave or not and so on. But in substance, I don't see any significant risk for us. Okay. Interesting. Maybe I raised another question, which is not an easy one, regarding the guidance. What are your underlying base case assumptions here in order to achieve the €44,000,000 EBIT? I mean in which constellation will it be difficult or even impossible to reach it? Or to put it differently, how quick do you expect any kind of recovery for our HP? We all know it's probably impossible to predict exactly. But what are your ways of thinking in terms of scenarios here? Yes. It's not an easy question. And of course, in a time of uncertainty, the key thing is uncertainty. So this is why we basically said to the guidance what we said. But I think what you can see from Q1 is already a tendency that the top line is lower than last year, whereas the profitability is in Space Systems and overall on an EBITDA level for the group is not so much impacted. This is what Cord just said. And this is probably more the trend that we also now with all the uncertainty as a general landscape, we expect profit to also be valid for the whole year. Having said that, our guidance at €44,000,000 EBIT was not, if you remember, let's say, very over ambitious in February to be careful because you remember that this was the guidance that was lower than some market expectation. And when we came out with the €44,000,000 in February markets, we were not excited about it. Somehow, it was a good timing that we came out with a relatively low EBIT guidance. So I mean, I think you might be able to extract from my comments that I don't feel totally uncomfortable with the €44,000,000 but maybe I'll leave it to Kurt to give more into detail. Yes. This is really the case with what Marco just mentioned. It's a question of uncertainties. It's a question of uncertainty, especially as I already mentioned, there are movements of important milestones in our supply chain. And it's really, really not predictable what will happen in the next months. We see a weak station in some companies in South Of Europe and Italy and South Of France and in Spain. But if this relaxation and again start up of open facilities and open companies and produce on a actually on a full level, but if this will increase then some of these movements will be recovered. But I expect it will not be fully recovered for the whole year, which really difficult to say. On the profitability, if we proceed, if we can proceed our business as it can as happened in the last month and also as happened in April. If this is the case with no major influence from other and again influences from COVID-nineteen then, I see the profitability guidance is really achievable for us. Is why we are not lowering the guidance. We're just saying it's uncertain. So for the lowering of the guidance, the point is it's uncertain. Okay. Yes. That's understood. Thanks for that. Last question very quickly. How does the crisis impact the Ariane five ramp down and Ariane six ramp up schedule or also the topics that you're faced with? Thanks. My understanding that the ramp down of 5 is not much impacted. Our industrial ramp down is already more or less completed. We have to divert everything from IAN five already last year. So our ramp down is there. And I think also the execution of the remaining ION five flights might be a little bit delayed because of the shutdown that we saw in Frutar Gruyanne over the last month. But I'm not aware of significant changes there. With regard to the ramp up of ION six, the industrial ramp up on our side is there. We are manufacturing the first we have delivered actually the first and now we are working on the first lot of ION six shipsets. I don't know what it really means. I think this will be, maybe this year, communicated by ION's plus or ION Group, what it overall means with regard to ION six introduction. I have no real feeling. I think ION six development is on a very good path. I think technically, rocket is ready. So hold our thumbs that the ramp up of Aeon six point zero as the prime contractor plans to. Sava Ritzschev from Pareteum Securities, may we have your question please? Yes, good morning. Only one question from my side. Regarding the margin development in the Space segment, it was quite impressive and maybe you can check some out on the reason behind this quite impressive improvement? Is it related to the mix? Or is it related to the share of subcontractors? Or are there any other reasons? At the end of the day, obviously, will be related to the share of subcontractors. Own work shares, contribution from the company is higher compared to last year and the amount of subcontracts are lower compared to last year. Obviously, this leads to an increase of margin to a very good level of now 7.56%. And but if to be very honest and to be very clear, if there is an increase in the next quarter, not in the second quarter, fourth quarter of the amount of subcontracts, then the margin looks a little bit lower. The pull looks a little bit lower. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Richard Schramm from HSBC, may we have your question, please? Yes. Good morning. So just following up on this margin explanation you gave, think you should have a quite good visibility on how the mix looks for each project between your own workload and the supplier. So, as you indicated, we should expect that H2 will see here a change in this field of plans we have seen in Q1, right? You mean a change in the sense of what our own work share and suppliers. I mean what you see of course is that the share of the suppliers was a little bit delayed and that was the main reason why the top line was weaker than the bottom line because the own value was more steady. This is I think what you will be referencing, but this is the case, right? This will be the case in Q2 as well. We've made so this will be the case in Q2 as well, but it may change as mentioned in Q3 and Q4. Yes. Okay. There might be a recovery also, course, we are optimistic people. So there might be a recovery from the supply chain in Q at the end of the year, right? That's the idea. Okay. And concerning the overall, let's say, sector environment, we have seen that there are some issues on the financing side from commercial projects, especially these small satellites projects that are under pressure here. How do you see the impact from this on your business? Do you expect any impact? Or is it even clearer for you that your newcomers, yes, on the competitive side, are at the moment so much under pressure here. How do you see the situation? Yes. There are always good and bad things in changes. Of course, you see that in a time of crisis, established companies like ourselves have also certain advantages. On the other hand, in times of change, newcomers have certain advantages. We feel that we are in a good spot in between these things. So we feel that, of course, we're working based on an established business with institutional clients. So, our robust business model in general has been confirmed in the crisis. We're very happy that we have the solid business laser and institutional clients that makes us pretty robust. Of course, there might be some of the newcomers now being in strong difficulties. Guess that's something that might be a shakeout in that respect. So the conclusion is it's hard to predict. We feel comfortable at the positioning where we are and we feel we're in a good middle spot to be on the innovative side some of the activities that was just explaining. Okay. Thank you. Last I have on the liquidity position you mentioned. So just that I understand you correctly, so you increased on one hand your liquid funds while you also increased short term financial debt. Does this make sense? I assume that you pay more interest than you get because you get all the interest in your liquidity. You're right. What we did is we made some before the March, so it's part of these numbers, we made some made a drawing of our loan because we were uncertain if money came in on time and it did come in. So the bottom line is that we are of course we made a cautious approach in taking lines, using lines and then it turned out that the inflow of money was better than expected. But at the end of the day there is no major impact on the interest fees we have to pay. It's a small impact for sure. But compared to last year we expect no major impact on this side. Okay. So it's more of kind of timing issue with the year and the certain temporary imbalance? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Perfect from my side. Thank you. Jasco Pesaric from Bankhaus Lampe. May we have your question please? Yes. My first one and sorry to bother you again on the guidance. I was wondering if you could give us an indication, what are the conditions that you either think the guidance could be reachable or that would make you think that the guidance is not reachable anymore? So for example, if it's a test center that needs to be running latest until May or something that gives us a little bit more grip on what are the conditions that the guidance could be reached or failed in that respect? I see two aspects. Maybe I'll start. The first is really the timing of order intake. Some of orders that we see in the pipeline and those were talking about come this year in a way that we really start them this year, but it helps us a lot with regard to guidance. The uncertainty is that we do expect or not really expect, but we are concerned that maybe some of the order intake that are coming our way and we hope we are winning might come, but they might come in a bit delayed fashion that they will not have an impact in our books this year. That would be the major risk I see for 2020. Second risk is of course if the shutdown with regards to test centers and space ports is longer than we expected. By the way, we do expect that that is ending soon. We feel that we know not we feel. We know that French Guiana will have the next launch scheduled for mid June. It's data rocket and one of the main satellites on it is one of our satellites for PlugSpace E sale. Satellite is in the French Guillaume since a long time and there is a schedule now that French Guillaume opens in as said relaunch or is launching So if that takes place, we are not ruling much of that. The test center is another debate. Mean, we are having test centers in Holland that we are waiting for fully be utilized again. So two things, order intake and external impacts on going projects, the two impact we see. But that's the first one you mentioned is the more concerning one or the more crucial one Okay. Regarding That's very helpful. Then secondly on the European Commission budget, I know in the last crisis, I think there was no real European Commission budget. However, can you give us your thoughts on the key risk of those budget approval? Because I think as of yet there hasn't been any approval so far. You're right. Remember that by the end of last year, the Finnish presidency was working hard to get the budget done. Currently, the president it's obviously a big debate. And the Croatian presidency now is also working on it. But the expectation this is just Marco talking my expectation is that this could go into the German presidency which starts on July 1. So, I do not expect a deal on the budget now in the remaining six weeks of this presidency. But maybe I'm wrong, who knows. But my feeling is that we will see a budget deal in the fall. Where that budget comes out obviously is very much too much speculation. I think overall, I think when this crisis moves to the next phase in the mindset of people there will be a lot of money being let's say organized and established for recovery. How that will then be divided is obviously a political process. I am pretty optimistic that Space will not do bad because we are a useful, high-tech, innovative industry. So the things we do with regard to helping mobility with CARDILEO, the things we are intending to do with regard to Copernicus also fit in well with the overall the overarching goal of the Green Deal. So I do expect that Copernicus will be funded. But the exact numbers obviously are currently So I do expect that the space budget will be within the corridors of the debate that we had over the last yes, the last presidency. So it will be somewhere between the Finnish and the parliamentary proposals, I guess, whatever. And looks I don't know. No, no, fully agree. But that's something that at the end comes with Berlin. Mean, the end of the day, our government will be very crucial to proposing deals. Okay. Thank you. And the final one is pertaining to MT Aerospace and also the potential projects that are looming in India. If you give us an update here? And maybe also your thoughts on what do you expect how severe a setback in demand might incur in MT Aerospace in Q2? I think MT Aerospace, obviously, the business model is a factory and it's very much driven. In the past, it's very much different simply by the amount of Aeana shipments. So if there were, I don't know, five a year, it was like this. If there were six or seven or eight. So of course, the demand and the timing of ION six is very important for empty aerospace. And this is something obviously completely independent from COVID-nineteen is something hard to predict because the first launch of ION six is still pending. The moment that takes place hopefully successfully we have a better understanding of this ramp up will be there. So, uncertainty is the big word, yes. Again, not necessarily bad, but it's uncertain. So, if everything goes well, the demand will be bigger than we all believe now. But we are in this period before the product ION six is introduced in the market where uncertainty is unfortunately the big thing, especially as MT is just a supplier. So we don't really have complete visibility on that. The good thing is with ION6, I think that the technical development goes very well. And the good thing is that Europe has made a strong commitment to use ION6 and to make ION6 a success. So this is something that we all rely on in the ION world and that should safeguard MT to a certain extent. With regard to other businesses, you were mentioning India, yes, since quite some time we are preparing a JV there. I'm not completely aware of the last deal, but maybe Lutz you know better, but I know that there are lawyers working on setting up the JV and stuff like that. So I think is something going on there. Lutz you know better than me? Not very much. So what I can say is the process with our Indian partners We don't have any major delay there. We don't see any indication that India would withdraw from its commitment. The need for launches to put down, but the business case of the JV would no longer fly or so. Actually up to now, we have not seen any major or any impact which was significant enough I would have heard about it. Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful. We have no further questions, Mr. Fuchs. Yes. You very much. I'm looking to my clock is already ten to ten. So thank you very much for your interest. Thank you for following with me so closely. And I hope even in uncertain times our information, our documents and also the answers we could give are sufficient for you to make your assessment. Overall, the conclusion is that Space is in a positive spot. Our industry at large is doing well. You see that in The United States. You see that everywhere in the world. So we are very happy to be in this part of the industry. Many other industries around us have really severe issues. The ones that we talked about also in this call are relatively manageable. It said that there's still uncertainty, but as people that go far out into the universe, we are very much used to deal with uncertainty. So this is not a major issue for us. And in that respect, I hope that OHP will deliver on this year and we are all very happy to stay in touch with the financial markets. So if there are any questions, please feel free to get in touch with Martija Lilienthal or myself or Lutz. And we hope to hear you all again then on August 11 with our Q2 numbers. We hope to be having a clearer visibility for 2020. So thank you very much and have a nice week. Thanks from Raymond. Bye bye.