PNE AG (ETR:PNE3)
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Earnings Call: Q4 2021

Mar 30, 2022

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Good morning, everyone. Also from my side, thank you for joining us today in this conference call on the results of the fiscal year 2021. Before I start with the presentation, I would like to share with you an outline of the presentation and the procedures of today's call. As usual, I will start with an overview of the operational and strategic highlights of 2021. After that, I will comment on our financial figures. I will conclude my presentation with our outlook for 2022. As always, we will then open the line for the sell-side, and all other participants will stay in listen-only mode, as it is our company's procedures for years. As usual, our slides that I will use can be found on our investor relations website. Having said this, I would like to draw your attention to slide three.

In operational terms and financial terms, 2021 was a record year. Despite the still somewhat difficult general conditions caused by COVID pandemic, we were able to increase the output, which means the project sold, put into operation or under construction, to a record level of more than 1 GW in 2021. This includes a record number of more than 770 MW peak sold. The result is more projects than ever before. We saw them in Poland, Sweden, France, Romania, and South Africa. I want especially to highlight the sale of the PV projects in Romania and U.S. at the end of the year. What is remarkable is that we could increase our wind and PV pipelines by 963 MW peak on a year-on-year comparison, despite the extraordinary high project realization.

In Q4, we were able to put two more projects with 60 MW in operation, which increases our portfolio to roughly 233 MW in operation. Further, 103 MW are under construction, and one project with 25.8 MW is through the tender and will start construction soon. Altogether, we have 365 MW either in operation or under construction or will start the construction soon. In this time last year, we also made a lot of measures in Scale up. This is one point where we are successful, our Scale up procedure. We made a lot of measures in terms of to increase the effectiveness of our processes and to stay attractive as a company.

For example, we introduced a knowledge management within the PNE Academy, and we defined the road to success to improve our processes. Looking to the financials, our strong operating performance was also reflected in our financial figures. I want to highlight the level of the total output of EUR 252 million, which is an increase of 66% year-on-year. EBITDA improved as well by 24% to EUR 32.7 million, which is even slightly more than we had in our guidance in 2020, where we said EUR 24 million-32 million. As expected, quarter four was a strong quarter in terms of earnings, driven by the sale of Polish projects, the PV projects, as well as the strong performance of the power generation segment.

I also want to highlight that these results were achieved despite significant investments in our own generation portfolio. Those investments in our portfolio are also reflected by non-realized earnings or so-called, we call it hidden reserves, of EUR 53 million compared to EUR 50 million last year. Taking into account those values that we have created, EBITDA Adjusted increased to EUR 85.7 million on an all-time high level. On segment level, the Project Development showed nice growth before consolidation compared to last year. Services grew in also in total output. Power Generation was burdened by weak wind yields and some downtime of our service power plant due to the maintenance in the first nine months. In Q4, however, this segment clearly benefited from the high power prices. The positive performance also is continuing in Q1 2022.

Our cash position EUR 149.6 million, which is a strong increase by EUR 38 million in the year-over-year comparison, and equity is increased by EUR 21 million. This was driven by the high amount of project sales despite the significant investments in project development and operation, its own generation portfolio. High cash inflow in Q4 related to the project sale in Poland and a EUR 15 million milestone payment from Ørsted related to the offshore business contributed to the increase. Putting the numbers in a timeframe, in a somewhat longer timeframe, you can see that we are on a clear growth path since 2017 when we started with our strategy, Scale up.

When you see the output, the strong increase in the output from somewhere slightly above 200 MW to now above 1 GW, 1,000 MW peak. The megawatt in operation management, we could increase from 1.5 GW, [1,500] MW to 2,000 MW. The EBITDA, if we take the Adjusted EBITDA, where we also take the hidden reserves into account, then we see the strong increase of EBITDA over the past years. We can see that our strategy is really working. If we look to the megawatt in own power generation, we could increase it to 272 MW.

If you look to the next slide, we can see that the hidden reserves now are accumulated in the portfolio to more than EUR 130 million in total, so EUR 134.6 million in detail. This is an extraordinary increase. We see, if you look on the left table, that we just right now have 233.2 MW wind projects in operation. Further 103 MW are intended for the portfolio, and 28.5 MW we could take through the tender. Therefore, we are now having to consider 365 MW which are now safe.

Further projects, if you look to the project pipeline in the next slide afterwards, you can see that we have further 505 MW in the year and in the phase III , so in a phase of permitting of the permitting process. We are safe in that respect that we think that we can meet our target end of 2023 to have 500 MW under construction or in operation. We are very close. If you look to the next slide, we have a well-filled project pipeline. I think the beauty of our business model is that we see projects which we want to put in our own portfolio upcoming because we are working on this.

We are doing it for our own, and we are not looking to buy and purchase projects somewhere in the market. In the moment, despite the projects we have sold and which went in our portfolio, we could increase our pipeline intake around 1 GW. This is extraordinary. It's for wind and PV. Important is that we have in the main markets like Germany and France, we have around 750 MW in the permitting phase. We could increase the pipeline mainly in Germany. In the moment, only German projects or all German projects are related to our portfolio. In France, we sold a project, Nanteuil, to CEE Group, which is under construction. In Poland, we sold the project Krzecin and Kuslin. Krzecin is now ready.

Last month, we could finalize it. Romania, 202 MW. 202 MW were sold, which is the wind portfolio we had at that moment. In South Africa, we could sell 140 MW of wind project, which is, the second milestone is depending on the tender in the first half of 2022. We are in the construction of the [Solfin] Farm [Hultema]. In total, we have a pipeline of around 5.7 GW in wind. If you look to the PV pipeline, we could double the PV pipeline nearly from 448 MW to 1,210 MW peak. We are now in eight countries.

If you look to the whole pipeline, we come to a pipeline of close to 7 GW. In reality, we are working on 12 GW, but these are the projects where we have access to. Only to give you a flavor, we're talking about 450 projects we are working on. Look to the financial figures. We can see a total output which increased significantly, 66% in the year-on-year comparison, as well as the EBITDA is increased by 24% roundabout. This is again mainly driven by the various project sales, by the internal sales related to our own portfolio and the results from power generation and services.

We have additional effects due to the fact that we have the financial results, which are positively impacted by the valuation of interest rate swaps, EUR 3.5 million, and a tax income of EUR 21.8 million, which is mainly related to the formation of deferred taxes on tax loss carryforwards, and that leads to a strong increase of the net result. We look to the segments, we see a success story as well. In the project development, we could increase the project development output to EUR 267.5 million, [+43.6%]. All these numbers are before consolidation. The EBITDA increases to EUR 62.7 million, +10.9%, which shows how strong this project development works had been done.

The services output grows to EUR 21.9 million, +3.6%. The EBITDA decreases slightly, but this was a negative one-off effects of around EUR 6.5 million, which mainly related to special depreciations of special wind LiDAR systems. The electricity generation increases to EUR 33 million, +35.6% due to strong Q4. We had not a very good wind year, but the high-power prices at the year-end compensating the weak wind yields and as well as the downtime for maintenance of service. This leads to an EBITDA which increased to EUR 23.1 million, +25.8%. What I said before have an effect on the balance sheet.

The balance sheet increased from EUR 663.8 million to EUR 827 million. The strong increase is mainly related to the assets we took on board. This is very strong growth. The main numbers I would say here are remarkable. There's still high liquidity of EUR 149.6 million. We have still an equity ratio of 26.8% related to bonds at 32.7%. This is remarkable in that the amount of increasing balance sheet, the ratio is going down. That is natural, even if the equity has increased.

If you look to the non-current debt, we have a liability to banks of EUR 333 million, which is mainly focused on project financing, so non-recourse project financing. The liability from leasing contracts, the right of use are at EUR 103.7 million. Again, the current liabilities is mainly non-recourse project financing of EUR 21.3 million. Having said this, what is the outlook? We see a positive outlook in a very dynamic market. Just right now, we have to face the situation that we have increasing prices for all goods, machines, cable works, and additional EPC measures. We see their development.

On the other side, we have high pricing for energy, and that means that we expect a higher income for our projects in our own portfolio. Nevertheless, at the end, it comes out where the project has a good outlook in the future. We have a very highly filled project pipeline and increasing our activities in the project development. We're increasing our internal portfolio, our production portfolio. Therefore, I think we're on a good road. We have a high volume of projects in the permitting phase, which shows that the growth, even after the 500 MW, can be done properly. All ongoing investments in our own generation portfolio and in Scale up, we're working on.

From that point of view, we see a guidance of the year 2022 and EBITDA of EUR 20 million-EUR 30 million. In general, positive and a good outlook. Thank you very much for your attention, and I'm waiting for your questions.

Operator

Dear ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin our question and answer session. If you have a question for our speakers, please dial zero and one on your telephone keypad now to enter the queue. Once your name has been announced, you can ask a question. If you find your question is answered before it's your turn to speak, you can dial zero and two to cancel your question. If you're using speaker equipment today, please lift the handset before making your selection. One moment please for the first question. We have a first question. It's from Peter Rothenaicher, Baader Bank. The line is now open for you.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

Yes. Hello, Mr. Lesser. Firstly, on your outlook for 2022, you mentioned an EBITDA guidance of EUR 20 million-EUR 30 million. What would you quantify for the additional hidden reserves coming into effect in the current year?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah, we're talking about. I can't tell you the hidden reserves just right now. Take into account that we have EUR 130 million round about for 233 MW. We want to add another 103 MW very shortly between 12 months period, +28 MW. These are the projects which are still ongoing, and we expect a further. I would say, somewhere around 150 MW as scope for projects where we get permission this year. Not all the projects are the same. Not all projects have the same amount of EBITDA effects, but nevertheless, I can't tell you just right now the detailed number.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

You clearly stated that the target of 500 MW own capacity will be realized by the end of next year. What is coming thereafter, though? Are you intending to increase this own portfolio then?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

First of all, 500 MW under construction or in operation due to the fact that we had some delays in COVID and permitting procedures. We are maybe slightly half a year into the time frame of 2024, where we have to complete the realization. Nevertheless, we see new opportunities also in PV projects. Maybe we do some of them as well in our own portfolio. Nevertheless, it is not decided yet what we're doing, but I think we have a very successful business model in that respect, that we have a full package of projects which are in the permitting phase.

We see just right now the high prices in the energy market, and we see the need for projects in the market, so the value is increasing. Nevertheless, that is the value we would like to have on board. Therefore, the general issue is not decided yet, but nevertheless, we're working on a strategy in a form of Scale up 2.0 and in this year.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

Given the extremely high level of energy prices, wouldn't this result in a revaluation of these hidden reserves?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

This is always a question. If you look to the financing, then you have a stable financing behind that. You have an outlook, which is an outlook for years and for 20 years. Just right now, we stick with the prognosis we had in the past. Now we have a special effect. Nobody expected this. Nobody knows how long the duration will be. Therefore, we have to stick to a conservative line.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

Lastly, regarding a specification of your outlook, I think it's clear following the strong result now in the project development business in 2021 that this will be clearly lower in the current year, while on the other hand, the power generation segment will show extremely strong results. Could you give us here some more specification about the size of profit you can expect, for example, for energy generation? I think there is no question that the energy prices will remain extremely high.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah, I think. Let's talk about the tactics how to deal with that. What we are doing just right now, we are working on PPAs to get PPAs for our projects for a longer time to get a stable income secured for the time of one year. Usually that's what you get just right now, PPAs for one year. There is the amount of what you get just right now is somewhere between EUR 0.10-EUR 0.14 per kWh in March. The projects are somewhere between EUR 0.6-EUR 0.8 per kWh. That shows a little bit just right now what we are talking about. This is an improvement for sure.

We have, as I stated last year, we made 220 GW hours around, so you can calculate what does it mean. If that is the point why we have such a wide range, if the wind yield is like from north. This is always an uncertainty factor.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

Okay. For the time being, I step back into the line. Thank you.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Thank you.

Operator

The next question is by Jan Bauer of Warburg Research. The line is now open for you.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Good morning, Mr. Lesser, and thank you for taking my question. First question would be, can you give us any update on your offshore ambitions? As far as I know, maybe in the U.S. or also in Asia, you are trying to evaluate whether it makes sense to step in those projects. Is there anything new to the table so far?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Starting with USA, we look to this carefully, but the prices for us are too high and the risk profile is for us not sufficient enough. I think that's something for the big utilities and big oil companies. We are looking for opportunities in Vietnam. We have started to open an office there. We have the first people working there, but we wait. We started measurements on wind there in the Binh Dinh region.

On the other side, we are waiting for the PDP8, which is the Power Development Plan 8, and wait for the results if we are with our project in or not, and what are the conditions of this PDP8. We expected that this PDP8 is upcoming this year in the next three to four months. They are still in delay. They wanted to publish it end of last year, and now we wait for that, and then we will see what we have on the desk.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Okay. Thank you. Second question would be regarding the project development segment. When I interpret the guidance the right way, I would assume that you do not expect major sales of international projects, but rather income from the power generation and the build-up of the own portfolio. Is that right?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah. We had an extraordinarily successful year for the sales. In the last year, I don't think that we get this year covered again and come on this level. Nevertheless, it's an issue that we have to face the situation that we have further projects in Romania, for example, PV, where we would like to sell. We have projects in United States where we would like to sell. There are some upcoming projects, but the target is more and more to get more on the portfolio. There we have special strengths in the moment in Germany and France on board, and that means that we have a lower EBITDA, as we had stated last year.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

All right. That's understandable. The last question regarding your guidance. In Q1, as far as I know, wind yields have been very favorable in Germany, and also the EEG allows you to participate on higher energy prices. Is this, let's call it additional income from higher power prices, already reflected in your guidance, or is your guidance based on the FIT you receive for the portfolio?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

It's already reflected in our guidance.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Okay. I'm right that Q1 was pretty good for your own wind park portfolio?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

You know, in four weeks I have the numbers all together for the quarter one.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Mm-hmm.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

In general, I can say yes, the wind yield was good, extraordinary, and the power prices as well. Therefore, yes, we can expect good results.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Okay, perfect. Thank you very much.

Operator

The next question is by Karsten von Blumenthal of First Berlin. The line is now open for you.

Karsten von Blumenthal
Equity Analyst for CleanTech Companies, First Berlin

Good morning, Markus, and congratulations.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yes.

Karsten von Blumenthal
Equity Analyst for CleanTech Companies, First Berlin

For a very successful year. I think you are a lucky man, and PNE is lucky because now your strategy to establish this own plant portfolio is very, very successful as you can get very, very high power prices at the moment. You already mentioned that you try to lock this in by getting PPAs for a longer time. Could you tell us for how long could these PPAs last and what is roughly the pricing level of these PPAs?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah, the PPAs are different in the price level. As I said before, we are somewhere between EUR 0.10 and EUR 0.14 per kWh, somewhere like that. It depends on the time when we're asking for this. It depends on the trader. We are not traders. We have fixed contracts for the direct trading for the energy in place, and we try to fix with the new contracts and try to get alternatives otherwise. Usually we have 12 months period for this higher prices to expect longer times. Just right now the market is very special. The prices are going up and down hourly.

Therefore it's always a question how you can get the right timing.

Karsten von Blumenthal
Equity Analyst for CleanTech Companies, First Berlin

Perfect. That helps. You mentioned that you are currently building 103 MW in Germany, and if I understood you right, you have and + 28 MW coming this year. Could you give us an idea what according to now could be the portfolio capacity of your own plant portfolio at the end of 2022?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

At the end of 2022, we will get some projects finalized this year. I think we will have just right now projects to consider. Let me summarize it. I think somewhere about 310 MW-320 MW will be the amount which will be ready at the end of the year. Somewhere like this. It depends on the delivery times. Just right now we have to face a real shift in delivery times from the manufacturers and from. Therefore, I'm too careful with my words because it is a range and I ±1, two projects at the end of the year.

Karsten von Blumenthal
Equity Analyst for CleanTech Companies, First Berlin

Yeah, I fully understand this. All the project developers complain about the turbine producers and the delivery times. How difficult is it at the moment, and how long are the delivery times of the turbine producers currently?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah. The delivery times started maybe two, three years ago. We had delivery times of 12 months. This increased to 15 months, and now we are talking about 18 months. To give you a feeling where we are and which market situation we are.

Karsten von Blumenthal
Equity Analyst for CleanTech Companies, First Berlin

Okay. Understood.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

In some cases we can negotiate the lower the delivery times, but this is what in general the market is, the first step as an offer.

Karsten von Blumenthal
Equity Analyst for CleanTech Companies, First Berlin

All right. Thanks for that. In your presentation you mentioned that you are currently basically working on 12 GW, but you do not put everything into your official pipeline figures. Could you explain again the difference between your official figures and what you are currently working on?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah. We are working on 12 GW. There are around about 450 projects. I only want to give you a feeling about that amount we are working on. Direct access to projects, we have an amount of 7 GW where we have direct access, for example, we have secured the first plot of land, for example, so where we have rights. We have to work on much more. We work on much more projects. We have to fill our pipeline all the time. We see just right now these projects. 1 GW we could increase our whole pipeline. All of these projects we are working additionally.

Karsten von Blumenthal
Equity Analyst for CleanTech Companies, First Berlin

All right. Understood. Now one last question. You have this, amazingly high tax refund of roughly EUR 22 million. Was that a extraordinary one-off this year? Could you explain what happened there exactly?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

I would like to give you this point. If you look to the business report on page 127 of the report of the last fiscal year, you'll get a detailed overview. At the end it is only that we have tax advantages we took into consideration this year. This is in rough figures. We're on a very high level that's what I can say to that. The details are written on page 127 in our business report of the fiscal year.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

Perfect, Markus. I thank you very much for taking my questions.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Thank you.

Operator

The next question is by Holger Steffen of SMC Research. The line is now open for you.

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

Good morning, Mr. Lesser.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Morning.

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

As far as I see, the PV pipeline becomes more and more important for your company. You've mentioned the sale of the first PV projects in Romania and the USA last year. It would be quite interesting which revenues you generated in 2021 with this project sales. Can you give us a rough idea?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah, we have always to face that in a lot of cases, we need to deal with milestone payments depending on the progress of the project. In the United States, we talk about lower EUR 1 million number. In Romania, we talk about a mid EUR 1 million number with [audio distortion] .

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

Okay. Thank you. One question about your wind pipeline in the U.S. You've started the sale process of the Chilocco project last year. Can you give us an update about this process?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah, we are still in the sales process, and we have to face a significant change in the situation that we have increased energy pricing. We have a PPA where we would like to get this increased energy prices involved, and that's why we are negotiating, and we are in negotiations still with interested investors.

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

you are still confident to sell this project in the near future?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah. We have a good project here, but we want to get a higher price, so that's why we're fighting for that. So.

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

Okay.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

That's the reason.

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

Okay. Last year, you have informed us about some delays at the project development in Panama. Could you give us an update about the actual status there?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

We have a situation that we are now within the plan. The main project is ongoing, and we have the permissions, and we now have to finalize the uncertainties in a grid connection, which, but there is a way to do this. We are preparing the sales process. Or we have finalized-

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

Okay.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

The preparation of the phase would have been sales process, I have to say.

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

Maybe we will see some sales in the USA, in Panama, and in Romania this year. My last question is, can you give us an idea which further projects could be sold this year?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

This year we have a project in France where we're talking about the project [Jasna wind], I think it's two turbines, three turbines, where we're talking about how we sell this project. We have, then, as I said, Romania, United States, Panama, and France. That's it at the moment.

Holger Steffen
Analyst and Managing Director, SMC Research

Okay. Thank you very much.

Operator

Our next question is by Peter Rothenaicher, Baader Bank. The line is now open for you.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

Yes. Hello, Mr. Lesser again. In terms of refinancing, I think we now have the situation that the interest rates will rise. Your bond is expiring in 2023. What are your considerations in terms of refinancing?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

I think in general, we have a high cash position, and the instruments we're having now in place are the instruments we are safe with and where we are fine with. Related to refinancing, we have to prove all the time that we can take release of a bond of EUR 50 million, if we take it or not. In the future, make a new bond. In this respect, we are still in a thinking process, having in mind that the equity rate of the bond is going down. Then we have to pay additional interest rates. We are looking always carefully to the development of that.

Peter Rothenaicher
Analyst, Baader Bank

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

The next question is by Jan Bauer of Warburg Research. The line is now open for you.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Thank you. It's just one last question from my side. Regarding the PPA negotiation business. Last year, I think for several other operators who negotiated PPAs so that they can lock in the higher prices for longer. Now, as the power price environment seems to sustain on very high levels and all the PPA prices have gone up pretty high, is this something you see in your service business that you receive more requests regarding you as a broker for PPAs?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yeah, we see that. Definitely. We see that a lot of companies now from the mid-sized companies, like companies who have a high energy amount, like companies of producing glass, for example, or having special procedures making special forms of alcohol or something like that. These kind of companies are looking now for alternatives. We see that this market is increasing, the pure PPA market of mid-sized companies. There are now some of them are really looking more or less to get a stable energy price in the market.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Okay. Can you give us an idea of how you got remunerated when you close such a PPA? Is this depending on the difference between the PPA price and, for example, the EEG price, or how does this work for you? How do you calculate in the end sales and margins you receive from such negotiations, and such brokerage services?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

It depends on if we do a kind of brokering service. It's depending on an amount we see as a turnover in the future, and then we get a fee. But additionally, we can negotiate otherwise depending on who delivers what to whom. It is always good to have a backlog like 2,000 MW, which we have in our own services.

That means that we have access to a higher amount of megawatts where we can improve for our customers, where we do the operational management, the conditions, and we can then ensure that we have megawatts and megawatt hours we can bring to the best prices to the market. We have special models, but such by now, this is from project to project. This differs from project to project.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

Okay. I understand that. You do actively approach people that are in your own end management that you might negotiate PPAs for them, or is this something that is usually like?

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yes. Yes

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

... pushed from-

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Yes. Because it is a big advantage for our customers that we do first of all the tender of our trader. The traders would like to have an amount of megawatts and megawatt hours, and that's what we can deliver, and this gives always the best margin for our customers. It's a good situation to improve for our customers the energy pricing conditions for trading or now within these days how we can improve the prices of PPAs, and this gives them a much better optimized earnings for our customers.

Jan Bauer
Equity Research and Associate Director, Warburg Research

All right. Thank you.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Thank you.

Operator

There are no further questions for the moment, and so I hand back to you.

Markus Lesser
CEO, PNE AG

Thank you very much for your interest. I wish you a very good day, and we see you the next time on the numbers of the first quarters. Thank you very much for your interest.

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