I think we start. If somebody's coming in, then we, of course, can let them in. Good afternoon, good morning, good evening from wherever you are joining this call. Thank you for participating, of course. As always, a few hints at the very beginning. This is the last call now regarding Q2. With this call, we are following an ESMA recommendation. This means that, of course, just publicly known information is shared. The call is made accessible to everyone who is interested on our website. If we would show any documents, which presumably will not happen, then, of course, this would be made available afterwards to all participants. One last hint, as always, the call will not be recorded by us. To start with, let me first of all—sorry. Please put yourself on mute if this has not already happened.
Thank you very much. To start with, like always, let me first summarize a little bit the last quarter. To sum up Q1, we saw sales revenues grew about 3% in Q1 to EUR 295 million. One topic we do not want to talk about anymore is still the order backlog that remained on a quite stable level, where we think this is so book- to- bill close to one, this is not worth talking about anymore. From a regional perspective, North America and Europe were, with growth rates of 7% or 11%, respectively, the major growth drivers. As Asia was very strong in 2023 and in Q1 2024 due to big orders from key account customers in China and in Japan, we still saw this effect in the comparison for Q1, which made Asia weaker and shrinking in Q1.
Looking on the product groups, we saw that the iVario was, again, growing stronger at around 10%. Indeed, we are expecting, of course, to continue the iVario growing faster than the combi steamer segment. On the gross profit side, we still benefited from lower component costs, raw materials, and logistic costs stabilizing on this lower level when it came back from the peaks. We ended up with a gross margin of around 70 basis points higher compared to Q1 2024. We are now seeing that we are stabilizing at a level of around 95%, so in the high 50s where we say this is something we feel comfortable. On the other hand, of course, operating costs increased disproportionately to sales revenues, as expected, of course. This is mainly due to strengthening the sales organization and the R&D.
One special effect was in the R&D position that we last year capitalized around EUR 1 million in Q1, which did not happen this year. We do not capitalize a lot this year. Overall, with an EBIT margin of 24.4% in Q1, we were a little bit below previous year, but still in line with expectations, approximately. If you want to have more detailed information on Q1, please visit our IR website with all the documents. Now let's close Q1 and go over some thoughts on H1 and on fiscal year 2025. For all that came a little bit later, you did just miss the look back to Q1. Now we start with look forward a little bit.
As you know, we guided for 2025, so fiscal year growth rate in the mid-single digit percentage area and the margin slightly below previous year, so at around 26% or so. In the last calls, we were talking about seasonality in sales revenues, meaning that we are much stronger or see much higher sales, especially in Q4. Of course, with this also H2 compared to H1. When we look at the business development, we still see that we should go back to the former pattern of significantly higher shares of sales revenues in H2 and in Q4, especially step by step. From a regional point of view, we still expect more or less unchanged factors for the remainder of the year that we already saw. We see Europe is all over more dynamic than we expected initially.
Continuing with good development in terms of order intake or sales revenues. Of course, some markets a little bit less and some markets a little bit more. Asia, on the other hand, is suffering still a little bit from the economic situation in the Chinese market, plus a high comparison level of H1 2024. This is also affecting the H1 comparison, also a little bit in Q2. This special topic is now fading out step by step as the deliveries coming from these big orders are becoming less from month to month. Still, it is somewhat affecting the Asian figures also in Q2. Looking at these markets, everything is more or less as expected. The major uncertainty in these days is, and I think you presumably would have expected that, coming from the U.S. market for sure.
As already said, the U.S. was one of the major growth drivers in Q1 and also last year and is our growth potential market number one. From a business perspective, it is indeed continuing to develop quite well. Of course, there are now the two major points of uncertainty coming from the U.S. markets these days. This, of course, you know this maybe from other companies as well. This is the U.S. tariffs and, of course, the U.S. dollar downturn that is becoming from day to day maybe a little bit more severe, maybe too strong, but a fee level. A few comments on that. On the U.S. tariffs, we are expecting, of course, to have more clarity from next week on when there is the next announcement on the plannings.
That is why we see we still need to wait for more details before we act. As there is no clarity about timing, about the percentage rates that are charged, and of course, the scope for which kind of products, etc., we saw that some competitors have already started with first price increases as a reaction. Of course, we are discussing this option as well. As said before, for the time being, we want to wait for more information before taking this decision. The second important topic is the U.S. dollar development. There were already minor effects in H1, but the strength of the euro against the U.S. dollar is becoming even a little bit more pronounced in the second half of this year, looking at the average rates of half year to last year and the rate we see right now.
This could be up to 10% loss in the FX rate. This, of course, would then have an impact if it stays on this level. In addition, then, this is two uncertainties we see. Of course, the third one is then what will be the reaction that we are taking. I think, as we said, we wait for more details and then we take action, whether this will be price increases or in which magnitude. I think this has to be decided. We see then, in a nutshell, we see three factors that are causing uncertainty. Sorry, is there somebody not on mute? This means we need to wait for the tariff decision. We need to closely look at the U.S. dollar development and then, of course, see what will be our reaction on that.
This is the most important topics I think we are talking about. Looks quite as expected, but this uncertainty is really maybe something we need to keep an eye on. Before I close with this topic or with the lookout, one thing we were discussing heavily in the last weeks was also the sales team development. As we said, one of the major topics we are working on is right now to develop the first organization more and more and, of course, invest here more money. Still maybe the same message as we had in the past quarter. I think the major markets where we are investing here is the growth markets, number one and two in the long run and where we have to develop the organization is mainly the U.S. and in China.
All over, we think that in every market, we will do more in order to be closer to the customer and with that also contribute to this cost increase that we are expecting in the OpEx. This was mainly, as I said, a recap and a quick outlook. After this, I now want to go over to the Q&A. Feel free to raise your hand in the Teams app. I'll call you afterwards. I want to ask you to then share your camera so that we can see you when you ask your question. I saw first question from Roberto. And then Philippe. Hello, Roberto. Are you still on mute?
Yeah, I forgot to unmute. Sorry about that. Thank you for taking my question. I have one simple question on tariff.
If you can elaborate a bit, how much are your peers or your competitors seeing in terms of tariff? Because I think there are some that are basically operating and producing in the U.S., which are basically affected by the price increase of the steel metal, let's say, price increase. That is, of course, impacting on the cost of goods sold. When it comes to you, you have a combination of that because you're basically exporting metal from Europe to the U.S. Attached to that metal, there is also product. Without entering too much in detail, how all that should be impacting you compared to your competitors? Yeah.
Yeah, good topic. Thank you. You're correct. We are importing on the one hand metal. The tariffs on real metal components is for us on the accessories, for example.
If we have big racks, if we have containers, if we have grids, this is metal. Here the metal tariffs are counting. When we talk about units, we are talking not about the metal tariffs, but rather the general tariffs right now of around 10%. I think you're correct. This is what we learned out of the, let's say, first round of the tariffs that we saw in the last time of Donald Trump, that it was even more severe for the local guys because they had to pay higher tariffs on steel than we had to pay for the complete products. Right now, we would say there is one major competitor producing in the US. How much they are seeing in the end, we do not know their structure in total. We think they are not doing better than the European competitors.
As most competitors are indeed producing in Europe, they are facing the same situation. Indeed, the first hints we get are that there might be price increases, some in the range between 4%, 5%- 10%, and some maybe even a little bit beyond that. This is in most cases announcements. This is list prices. We will see how this trickles in then in the end selling price. Okay. Basically, my take is the negative impact of those producing in the U.S. arising from a higher steel price is more or less equivalent to your 10%, basically. It could even be higher. Of course, if they have, maybe we have around a 10% share in our COGS, which is steel.
If you pay higher tariffs on the 10% of steel of your share, and then you maybe pay 50%, then of course, this is maybe in total a little bit less than we might be affected when we import.
Okay. I understand. I understand. That is very clear. Thank you. I put myself on the queue again. Thank you.
You're welcome. Philippe, you're on mute.
Thank you for taking my question. I had just one on the growth and margin outlook because you reiterated basically mid-single digit growth and an EBIT margin of around 26%, slightly below last year level. You made as well the comment that you're feeling some headwinds from currencies. With 20% share of U.S. dollar, obviously, you're going to feel that.
Should we take the mid-single digit growth guidance as an organic growth guidance now, or is it still in reported numbers? You mean for the full year?
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Right now, I think the mid-single digit growth rate is, let's say, a range of how far you would want to take it around the 5%. It could be, yeah, 3%-4%. It could be 6%-7%, somewhere in between. This is always, yeah, let's say, yeah, how do we say that? It gives you a little bit playroom, let's say it that way. On the one hand, there are two effects that are maybe playing into the sales development. This is on the one hand, the dollar development and how far this will go, of course, in comparison with last year and with the plannings that we have.
On the other hand, the potential price increases that then would counter that. From that point of view, I would say the range is something we still keep. If you would say maybe the dollar would be more severe than the price increase you are expecting would help, then you would maybe go rather a little bit down and you say, "Okay, no, there is also a statement that the dollar will come back quite quickly. If that's true, then maybe it would not be that severe." We would stay rather with the. Yeah.
As of today, the drag from currencies is somewhere around 2%-2.5%, I think, at global, well, at group level. You say that even that drag does not change really the meaning of your guidance that you are saying mid-single digit around that 2%±.
Yeah, we are kind of fine with it. Same with the margin?
Yeah, with the margin, it is basically the same. I think we had it in the last call. We were guiding around a little bit below previous year, meaning we had last year 26.3%. If you say a little bit below, this is somewhere in the low 26%. If you say one percentage point down, so 26% or so, one percentage point down or up would be a range of 25%-27%. This is something for the time being as long as we do not have more details. For example, if the tariffs would go to much higher rates, then maybe this would be unrealistic. Maybe now with the parameters that we have right now, it is something that is achievable and realistic.
Okay.
Finally, just to come back also to your comment on the seasonality, despite the fact that the FX headwinds have been intensifying, especially in Q2, you stick to the comment that typically Q4 is going to be the strongest quarter. That is, I think, close to 30% or so of total sales normally.
27%-28%. 27%-28%. Of course, the dollar weakness could have really an impact there. If this would trickle in, this is maybe then referring to your first question, if the impact here would be higher than the potential price increases, then maybe this is a little bit lower.
Still, it should be in a, when we look on the business development and on the environment that we see right now, it should still be the strongest quarter. Whether it's then completely going back to normal or just a little bit more than this is maybe open, we cannot know today.
Okay. Perfect. Thank you. I'm back in the queue.
You're welcome. Craig.
Yes. Hi. Good afternoon, Stefan and everyone. Yeah, thanks. First of all, just wondering, bearing in mind these uncertainties I mentioned, knowing how the ordering behavior of the U.S. customers has been impacted or not impacted in general. I mean, the one is translation effect, and we all understand in terms of how RATIONAL will ultimately react. We'll see, hopefully, next week when we get to, hopefully, the end of the negotiations. In terms of the behavior by the local customers so far.
Yeah. Right now, we see all over, as you said, we see quite a good development. We see still that in the key account segment, there is some hesitation. This is still the case. They are doing normal business, daily business with the key accounts, but they are hesitating on doing bigger projects in many cases. The street business is doing very well. In terms of the order behavior, there is maybe some pre-ordering being ahead, maybe a price increase following the tariffs that are expected, but we do not see it in a big magnitude, at least. All over, we see a good development, quite healthy development right now, and maybe some pre-ordering, but nothing you could really see directly that this is pre-ordering.
Okay. Thank you. Just two more, perhaps, from my side real quick.
One is, okay, we understand on pricing your potential reaction. You'll decide after we get a clear picture on the tariffs. I understand that. What about other measures you might be taking? The old topic, of course, potential local assembly, perhaps your shipments to Canada being more direct rather than via the U.S. Are there other measures that are being thought out? Thank you. I have one more.
You mentioned it. Canada is something we are establishing right now so that we do the shipments direct to Canada, not via the U.S. The other thing is, as soon as there is a little bit more clarity on the complete situation, there will be again an assessment whether U.S. production makes sense or not. I would say it's completely open.
Of course, if tariffs are staying or maybe are getting bigger, this might be an argument that is in favor for that. On the other hand, this might cause inflationary effects in the U.S., which then would make it more expensive for the other option as well. From that point of view, I would say that's completely open then. Of course, this is something that's on the table. I think these are the two major measures. Of course, efficiency improvements. I would say the U.S. organization is in a status right now where they're getting more and more efficient. This might help a little bit. On the other hand, I had just a call with an investor the other day that said, "Just do not do anything. Don't increase prices and just help your customer with that.
You would benefit from that in the long term. This is one. I would say this would be one option to just take it as a market support measure. Whether this is the most likely or not, I would assume price increases is maybe then the option to counter to some extent, but how much, difficult to say.
Maybe one quick follow-up on that before I go to my final question for now. In Q1, you guys made a point of highlighting that you had clearly gained market share in the U.S. I mean, based on what you've seen so far, would you say that that's probably true in Q2 as well?
That is too early to say, I would say.
I would say maybe that we mentioned that in Q1 is maybe not just on Q1, but rather we look at in the longer term that they got some information or that we got some information that we clearly won market share. We think Alto-Shaam, the biggest competitor in the U.S., they changed a little bit their strategy. They do not produce boiler systems, so with steam generator anymore, but boilerless systems, that's not comparable anymore. You see that our, let's say, perception in the market is very well from a product side. This is, of course, then helping to, yeah, cause reactions at competitors.
Okay. Thank you. My third question for now, please, is have you seen any new developments recently in the competitive landscape that are worth highlighting? Thank you.
Sorry, some?
Any recent developments in the competitive landscape that are worth mentioning in this call? Thank you.
I would say we see that there are some discussions about robotics. Maybe you heard the name Circus. And there are some others. Very, very early steps for those guys. Whether this will be then real competition in future or not, we will see. This is maybe too early. Otherwise, I would say in the short term, no developments worth mentioning now.
Okay. Thank you.
You're welcome. So Lars.
Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. Just a quick one. When you spoke about the seasonality of the financial year 2025 and what we should expect, you also hinted that you could nevertheless or that you would aim for a quarter-on-quarter margin improvement.
I mean, with 24% point something in Q1, there's room to go if you stick to your 26% target. Is that something you would confirm at this stage, quarter-on-quarter improvement of the margin?
Let's say for the time being and assuming that we will stick with the guidance and we see it in the mid-single digit growth and in the around 26%, yes. Of course, as we had with the previous questions, if the headwinds of the U.S. dollar or tariffs would be much more severe than we would maybe expect or see now, then of course, this could change for sure.
Yes. Many thanks. Okay.
One moment. I don't see any more. Yeah. Yang.
Yes. Hi. One question on my side. Hello. One question on my side. You were telling us that right now you ship goods to Canada.
What is the tariffs that you have on the goods that are coming from Canada to the U.S. at this stage? Could it be a valid option for the future?
Yeah. We ship our, what we did in the past, we shipped to the U.S. and from the U.S. to Canada. We paid the import tax to the U.S., which is very, very small or was very small for most of the parts. Then we shipped to Canada. Between Canada and the U.S. and Canada, you are then tariff relieved or I do not know the English word for that. You do not pay then additional import taxes to Canada. Right now, we are changing this process to directly ship to Canada so that we can spare the U.S. import tariffs.
In Canada, as far as I know, there is no tariff for import for us. Maybe for minor parts.
Could you do, is it interesting to do the contrary from Europe to Canada and then to the U.S.?
I do not know. Maybe even the Canadian import taxes are higher than the European ones. This would not help. The same thing would be, for example, there were discussions, why would you set up a production facility in the U.S. and not in Mexico and then import? That is the same story. You have the import taxes from Mexico.
On the one last, because you did not touch your price in the U.S. and some of your competitors did, do you think that the good U.S. momentum that you have up to now is due to this, that you are gaining market share thanks to this price differential?
Sounds logic that maybe this helps if customers see that competition is increasing and then they are about to buy a unit that they say, "Okay, now the RATIONAL is maybe more attractive." But it's nothing that we would say we can measure that this is really the contributor as it's the same as with maybe some pre-buying. We cannot measure it. Here, the extent is not, let's say, big enough.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Maybe it's a mix of all these things that is helping a little bit.
Okay. Thanks.
Thank you. Fraser.
Yeah. Hi, Stefan. Fraser.
Just one question. Did you make any changes to your kind of internal pricing towards your U.S. subsidiary?
Not yet. No. You need to consider as the U.S. is anyhow a high-tax market. Of course, the internal pricing is sort of reflecting that. You need to make a minimum profit. Otherwise, the tax authorities would maybe not accept this. You pay double tax in the one country where you maybe are making the higher profit and then in addition in the U.S.. This is a very, very, yeah, complicated thing to do. We did not yet do the price. I asked this to my tax guys, then increase the transfer prices, then we do not make any profit anymore. They say they would not accept that. I think the threshold is at around 5%. You need to show a 5% operating margin.
Otherwise, they would come maybe audit you. Sorry. Sorry. Yang, are you on mute?
Yes, I'm on mute. Somebody muted me.
There is a threshold. If you do not fulfill this, then they would audit you and say, "Okay, this is something we could not accept." This is nothing you can do just very easily. This is a really complicated process.
Thank you.
Craig, do you have another question here?
Yes. Hi, again. Yeah. No, I just wondered if there's anything new you could provide us at this stage in this call on the IXCON rollout. Thank you.
Not really. No breaking news with any big order which now is coming and changing the complete story. We are still working on the project together with the customers.
We are creating stories in order to leverage the story in the market, to make it more in order to create the awareness and to show all the advantages. This is an ongoing process, and it is going well. The bigger projects, we think we need to be quite patient because this takes time. What is new? I think we already discussed this in the last call that we are now starting to not only show it to bigger customers, to the key account customers, but also on trade shows. It is publicly available. All the information, you can watch the shows so that everybody gets information. We are increasing, let's say, the team or let's say widening the scope with training more and more people on the IXCON in order to be able with those guys then also to address smaller customers.
Yeah, you saw it in the past calls or communication. There are good success stories with customers like petrol station chains, with football stadiums where you really can see the big advantage, but that's smaller customers, of course, and with the bigger ones it would take. Basically, nothing that would help you to type it into your model and come out with different sales figures now. If there is no more additional question, I would close the call. Thank you for your participation. For those who do not know it, the earnings call will be on the 5th of August at 3:00 P.M. We will send out the invitation soon, or you can go on our IR calendar on the homepage. There, it is already open for subscription. I hope to meet you in four weeks now, or four to five.
Wish you all the best until then. Take care and see you soon.
Thanks, Stefan.
Thank you. Bye-bye. Take care.